it can be so hard to explain why doing something that is normally subconscious, you need to do consciously instead is much harder. (along with not being given the "why" in why you even need to do that thing in the first place) eye contact for example, for one person it might just be second nature, but for the second person it can require constant effort (and the not being able to talk properly as your putting all your energy into keeping eye contact). for a different example, when typing on a keyboard your not actively thinking about where the each letter is on the keyboard, instead you just move your fingers without thinking about it (instead thinking about what your going to type) now imagine you have to think about where each letter on the keyboard while trying to type quickly (and thus having less energy to give to thinking what your going to type), that's what eye contact can feel like. (I love autism)
Yeah but having to consciously type out words does not automatically make you averse to typing in general. It isn't fully explained by effort, but some underlying feeling of discomfort.
That's the earliest indicator for autism. If babies can't seem to look at your face for more than a second or two, it's a possibility. It's especially useful, diagnostically speaking, because men and women can present differently, which makes identifying autism more challenging sometimes, but eye contact is an issue across the board.
Yeah, it’s funny too because my friends are really outgoing so they have no idea what it’s like and are completely confused when I try to explain it too them.
So, not to be overly serious or anything, but for any neurotypicals that have friends with autism, I wanna explain something. This isn't coming down on Bo, to be clear, he's an excellent friend who's just trying to help, and this stuff isn't common knowledge. I just think it's good for more people to know this, as I think autism is probably more common than we even know. It's not anxiety, it's autism. The anxiety is usually a byproduct of living with autism, trying not to weird people out, and coming to find out how hard that is for you. This is the kind of thing people who are friends with those with autism can best support their friends by accepting. Not everyone with autism experiences this eye contact thing, of course, but it is a common autistic trait and generally isn't something we can change or just "get better at." I mean, yes, we can learn to force ourselves to look in someones eyes, but for most of us it will never get easier. It's just an extra exertion, one of those masking things that makes social interactions exhausting. Especially when people do what Bo said about following your gaze, drawing attention to it and making you feel awkward. It makes it feel like you have to do something uncomfortable for you or people won't accept you, which makes social interactions drain your batteries all that much quicker. The best thing friends of people with autism can do isn't to encourage them to force themselves to act "normally," but to give them the space to be themselves and feel comfortable with their quirks, as long as they aren't actually harmful. Eye contact is just a social thing, and allistic people can accept that it's not comfortable for everyone much easier than autistic people can force themselves to do it. There are some things that it's really good for friends to help you get more comfortable with, but autistic people gotta pick their battles, and eye contact is literally such a common and intense aversion for autistics that professionals look for an aversion to eye contact when diagnosing autism even at a very early age. If you have a person you love with autism, the most important thing to understand is our brains are different, we can't just learn to "be normal," all we can do is force it with a lot of effort, and that burns us out quickly. It's why even extroverted autistics are often loners. So the best thing you can do for your autistic friends is give them the space to be autistic.
However, as a little side note which by all means I don't want to blow out of proportion or make people paranoid, it does maybe kinda matter in some areas of the world (which… admittedly none of us is gonna go to and also might be fading away with time) Like where my grandparents grew up not looking at people in the eye is still seen as disrespectful today, now the consequences of that might not be as harsh as when they grew up there but you're still gonna get shitted on and shafted by the people there, my friend's grandpa, who lived in this city that I'm on right now, was detained for a couple of days because he dared not to look at a general (or something like that) in the eye when he said good morning (I know literally fucking insane, it would not happen today at all in the city that I am at) I'm just saying do be careful when you go places? But if you stick to "real" cities you should be fine
1:06 THIS IS SO REAL I DO THIS WITH MY FRIENDS TOO ill like react with something that makes sense to me due to some autistic logical line, but then my opponent (socialising is a battle) will have no clue 😭
It's the autism. I also don't do eye contact because it's so emotional intense. Even with my kids, with whom i have wonderful relationships with, I can maintain real eye contact for only a few seconds at a time. AND THERE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! After all, the eyes are supposed to be the windows to the soul. So, yeah, eye contact should be intense and intimiate.
100% the 'tism, though I managed to train myself to look at people while talking I still tend to look mostly at their mouths, looking at their eyes is too distracting for me
I came to appreciate the occasions my ex would look into my eyes because I knew she was making a real effort to do so, which was very sweet in her own way.
this if very true. if im in a situation where eye contact is important, it's something i have to consciously pay attention to and even then it barely works... i'm surprised ellie didnt mention autism at all while denying that it was anxiety, especially while going on about all her masking tecniques. maybe she hasnt been diagonsed?
As someone with autism, I never understood why it was such an issue for others, but then I realised that it never comes second nature to me as well. I literally have to tell myself when to look at someone's eyes and when to look away. It's just that I rarely feel the discomfort that a lot of others do.
@@Konomi_io I remember her mention being autistic on a different stream (and I really hope I'm remembering that correctly), which is why I figured it'd be okay to offer my 2 cents. As to why she didn't mention it this time, all I could offer is speculation and projection 🤷♀️
3:52 same. I was told eye contact was the normal thing to do, there's no such a Thing as too much eye contact (and that no eye contact was being disrespectful of the other person, which although not correct it surely motivated little me to learn how), what matters in making it weird or not is blinking and what you're doing with the rest of your face, but once a friend made the observation (not a critique) that I always look at eyes of the person I'm talking to and I was like "oh shit it's not normal, it's not normal people behavior, readjust READJUST" bc i was a teen and a single NEUTRAL comment was all that was needed to topple the tower, so I Lost My ability to do it, been working on getting it back tho, eye contact is perfectly fine, do it (personally I do get that looking at somebody in the eye can be like... Too much, I went through desensitization to it twice, but once you're there it does give you a boost of confidence and also concentrating on my blinking I feel like it helps me not to overthink other things too much although it's not immediate, like you gotta get there first)
Feeling an instinct to avoid eye contact is a very common thing in people with autism. Like with everything you can't say it's a hard rule that applies 100% of the time to 100% of the people with autism, but it is very common.
For the initial program she was talking about, she needs to have the program count the number of times the two people collab on different dates and change the thickness and/or number of lines between them to show how close they are in order to differentiate between friends and people who are just acquaintances.
The good ol ✅, yep, she works at a tech company alright For context, that's used a ton by developers for some reason, I guess just the need of systems for everything, even just verifying you read something
A teacher gave me a complex as a child. I have really dark eyes so it’s hard to see my irises. My teacher said it was creepy, ever since then I’ve averted eye contact because I’m afraid I’m creeping ppl out
Actually can't see what's wrong with eye contact, but when I'm speaking with someone I'm like "Must look anywhere but the eyes. Anywhere but the eyes. Anywhere but the eyes." Been staring Ellie in the eyes for the whole vid btw ☀☀
What? I thought teaching introverted kids to look people in the eyes was one of the most normal and important social skills parents can teach them. The overwhelming majority of people naturally look to other people in the eyes when speaking, not doing so is considered rude, dismissive or disrespectful especially when discussing important stuff. I know Bo may shower in a filthy and gross bathroom, and he might've lied to his parents about a charity to donate $600 to a streamer, but out of all things this isn't weird.
Apparently you're never supposed to make eye contact with Chinese emperors. So you're supposed to always look down and bow. They say it's a status thing, but I suspect it's cause majority of them are on the spectrum.
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
"Hey Ellie can answer this yes or no question?"
"♥" - Ellie 2024
Bo essential asking for a five second stare is like asking for a french in elli logic
it can be so hard to explain why doing something that is normally subconscious, you need to do consciously instead is much harder. (along with not being given the "why" in why you even need to do that thing in the first place)
eye contact for example, for one person it might just be second nature, but for the second person it can require constant effort (and the not being able to talk properly as your putting all your energy into keeping eye contact).
for a different example, when typing on a keyboard your not actively thinking about where the each letter is on the keyboard, instead you just move your fingers without thinking about it (instead thinking about what your going to type)
now imagine you have to think about where each letter on the keyboard while trying to type quickly (and thus having less energy to give to thinking what your going to type), that's what eye contact can feel like.
(I love autism)
Yeah but having to consciously type out words does not automatically make you averse to typing in general. It isn't fully explained by effort, but some underlying feeling of discomfort.
That's the earliest indicator for autism. If babies can't seem to look at your face for more than a second or two, it's a possibility. It's especially useful, diagnostically speaking, because men and women can present differently, which makes identifying autism more challenging sometimes, but eye contact is an issue across the board.
As someone who's also bad with social interactions and reading the room, eli is so relatable
Yeah, it’s funny too because my friends are really outgoing so they have no idea what it’s like and are completely confused when I try to explain it too them.
L.A. Noire hard mode: Ellie Noire
So, not to be overly serious or anything, but for any neurotypicals that have friends with autism, I wanna explain something. This isn't coming down on Bo, to be clear, he's an excellent friend who's just trying to help, and this stuff isn't common knowledge. I just think it's good for more people to know this, as I think autism is probably more common than we even know.
It's not anxiety, it's autism. The anxiety is usually a byproduct of living with autism, trying not to weird people out, and coming to find out how hard that is for you.
This is the kind of thing people who are friends with those with autism can best support their friends by accepting. Not everyone with autism experiences this eye contact thing, of course, but it is a common autistic trait and generally isn't something we can change or just "get better at." I mean, yes, we can learn to force ourselves to look in someones eyes, but for most of us it will never get easier. It's just an extra exertion, one of those masking things that makes social interactions exhausting. Especially when people do what Bo said about following your gaze, drawing attention to it and making you feel awkward. It makes it feel like you have to do something uncomfortable for you or people won't accept you, which makes social interactions drain your batteries all that much quicker.
The best thing friends of people with autism can do isn't to encourage them to force themselves to act "normally," but to give them the space to be themselves and feel comfortable with their quirks, as long as they aren't actually harmful. Eye contact is just a social thing, and allistic people can accept that it's not comfortable for everyone much easier than autistic people can force themselves to do it.
There are some things that it's really good for friends to help you get more comfortable with, but autistic people gotta pick their battles, and eye contact is literally such a common and intense aversion for autistics that professionals look for an aversion to eye contact when diagnosing autism even at a very early age. If you have a person you love with autism, the most important thing to understand is our brains are different, we can't just learn to "be normal," all we can do is force it with a lot of effort, and that burns us out quickly. It's why even extroverted autistics are often loners. So the best thing you can do for your autistic friends is give them the space to be autistic.
However, as a little side note which by all means I don't want to blow out of proportion or make people paranoid, it does maybe kinda matter in some areas of the world (which… admittedly none of us is gonna go to and also might be fading away with time)
Like where my grandparents grew up not looking at people in the eye is still seen as disrespectful today, now the consequences of that might not be as harsh as when they grew up there but you're still gonna get shitted on and shafted by the people there, my friend's grandpa, who lived in this city that I'm on right now, was detained for a couple of days because he dared not to look at a general (or something like that) in the eye when he said good morning (I know literally fucking insane, it would not happen today at all in the city that I am at) I'm just saying do be careful when you go places? But if you stick to "real" cities you should be fine
"Average" Bo is surprisingly normal compared to the other vtubers he streams with
1:06 THIS IS SO REAL I DO THIS WITH MY FRIENDS TOO ill like react with something that makes sense to me due to some autistic logical line, but then my opponent (socialising is a battle) will have no clue 😭
✨
It's not a battle, at least with your friends, it's a co-op adventure of the both of you wanting the same thing, communication 💪
would you have a clue a week later?
- treat it like commenting programming code XD
It's the autism. I also don't do eye contact because it's so emotional intense. Even with my kids, with whom i have wonderful relationships with, I can maintain real eye contact for only a few seconds at a time.
AND THERE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!!
After all, the eyes are supposed to be the windows to the soul. So, yeah, eye contact should be intense and intimiate.
100% the 'tism, though I managed to train myself to look at people while talking I still tend to look mostly at their mouths, looking at their eyes is too distracting for me
I came to appreciate the occasions my ex would look into my eyes because I knew she was making a real effort to do so, which was very sweet in her own way.
this if very true. if im in a situation where eye contact is important, it's something i have to consciously pay attention to and even then it barely works...
i'm surprised ellie didnt mention autism at all while denying that it was anxiety, especially while going on about all her masking tecniques. maybe she hasnt been diagonsed?
As someone with autism, I never understood why it was such an issue for others, but then I realised that it never comes second nature to me as well. I literally have to tell myself when to look at someone's eyes and when to look away. It's just that I rarely feel the discomfort that a lot of others do.
@@Konomi_io I remember her mention being autistic on a different stream (and I really hope I'm remembering that correctly), which is why I figured it'd be okay to offer my 2 cents.
As to why she didn't mention it this time, all I could offer is speculation and projection 🤷♀️
3:52 same. I was told eye contact was the normal thing to do, there's no such a Thing as too much eye contact (and that no eye contact was being disrespectful of the other person, which although not correct it surely motivated little me to learn how), what matters in making it weird or not is blinking and what you're doing with the rest of your face, but once a friend made the observation (not a critique) that I always look at eyes of the person I'm talking to and I was like "oh shit it's not normal, it's not normal people behavior, readjust READJUST" bc i was a teen and a single NEUTRAL comment was all that was needed to topple the tower, so I Lost My ability to do it, been working on getting it back tho, eye contact is perfectly fine, do it (personally I do get that looking at somebody in the eye can be like... Too much, I went through desensitization to it twice, but once you're there it does give you a boost of confidence and also concentrating on my blinking I feel like it helps me not to overthink other things too much although it's not immediate, like you gotta get there first)
the eye contact thing is so real LOL
Feeling an instinct to avoid eye contact is a very common thing in people with autism. Like with everything you can't say it's a hard rule that applies 100% of the time to 100% of the people with autism, but it is very common.
ah, she really does have the tism. Sometimes our eyes can start to jitter in their sockets tryin to get away when looking into other peoples eyes.
For the initial program she was talking about, she needs to have the program count the number of times the two people collab on different dates and change the thickness and/or number of lines between them to show how close they are in order to differentiate between friends and people who are just acquaintances.
The good ol ✅, yep, she works at a tech company alright
For context, that's used a ton by developers for some reason, I guess just the need of systems for everything, even just verifying you read something
A teacher gave me a complex as a child. I have really dark eyes so it’s hard to see my irises. My teacher said it was creepy, ever since then I’ve averted eye contact because I’m afraid I’m creeping ppl out
It's like, manually breathing, but when looking at someone. I actually talk better when im driving or working. We are odd.
are the NTs okay?
I have the same thing as ellie. I look at the nose bridge. It works.
Actually can't see what's wrong with eye contact, but when I'm speaking with someone I'm like "Must look anywhere but the eyes. Anywhere but the eyes. Anywhere but the eyes."
Been staring Ellie in the eyes for the whole vid btw ☀☀
Ellie has the ‘tism.
Bo, it's okay to admit that you've been raised weirdly.
What? I thought teaching introverted kids to look people in the eyes was one of the most normal and important social skills parents can teach them. The overwhelming majority of people naturally look to other people in the eyes when speaking, not doing so is considered rude, dismissive or disrespectful especially when discussing important stuff.
I know Bo may shower in a filthy and gross bathroom, and he might've lied to his parents about a charity to donate $600 to a streamer, but out of all things this isn't weird.
That was a joke.
@@juhor.7594 LOL sorry.
In my defense, it was very late for me.
so question for all those who know an answer which eye do you look at or am i weird and im supposed to look at both?
Ellie Noir
noIce
aww, this anxious "piece of garhage" is melting the heart of this piece of excrements ♥
🐥
Apparently you're never supposed to make eye contact with Chinese emperors. So you're supposed to always look down and bow.
They say it's a status thing, but I suspect it's cause majority of them are on the spectrum.
8:16 - where does she think all the viewers are looking? XD
- if anything, I bet with "some" models, people might look into the eyes much less. XD
I need to check her live some day, just to tell her that I'm looking "at" her eyes XD
Shh, don't tell her and it'll be fine 🤫
Are they just doing a bit, or are they both that clueless they don't consider it feels different for different people?