'Brexit vote is a once in a generation referendum' | Owen Jones meets Daniel Hannan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Daniel Hannan is a Eurosceptic Tory MEP who has made it his life's work to campaign to get Britain out of the European Union. But, he says the looming EU referendum could be a once in a generation vote and if there is a decisive vote to remain, he will accept the views of the British public. I went to meet him at Europe House to discuss his views on Europe, the war on drugs, proportional representation and who should be the next Conservative party leader when David Cameron steps down.
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Get away from the posh/rich/evil tag and Daniel Hannan is a very interesting and genuine guy to talk to. Nice to see Jones showing some respect.
Jones always respects people. :)
Jones always respects people. :)
Jones always respects people. :)
+FreakishlyTrue clearly you haven't watched all his vids then
Dan Hannan is great: so articulate and clear-thinking. He should be PM - not the shoddy Scameron. Voting Leave is the only sane choice.
Nicer than Boris, liz etc
Why can't Dan Hannan be PM???
Dan's the Man, definitely.
I just read the comments and saw that no-one at all attacked anyone else or tried to steer the conversation towards their own private obsession, e.g. pro/anti-religion, pro/anti-Russia/-USA etc. Dozens of well-mannered and well-informed people listening to two people discuss something from a different perspective and actually trying to learn something. Kind of makes my day. Thanks, Owen, Daniel and all of you.
+Microtherion Ha ha, just wait it will happen ;) I never see the point of posting bad comments but You Tube is possibly worse that Twitter for it. A reasoned argument is quite fine, but some just get nasty. I'm thick-skinned but I've learned never to post anything under Channel 4 News or LBC you just get attacked by a swarm of parasitic wasps!
Fair play Owen, I've never liked you. But my estimation has gone up that you are willing to openly discuss with the other side of the debate.
+Indigo pirate Same here, enjoyed this and other interviews by Owen. I always thought he was a typical new age regressive leftie but top man for the way he conducts these interviews. Owen deserves huge credit.............can't believe I said that.
@@richardashton4723 Oh how times and Owen have changed.
Happy Chappers Spot on!
Britain has to leave the EU for the sake of democracy!
+Matt 18 Do you acknowledge that problems like climate change, and the refugee crisis will be harder to deal without EU membership?
+Totalwarking7 really? Those outdated arguments have been disproved so many times I do not have to list them here.
+Totalwarking7 How? What if Britain had higher standards for tackling climate change than the EU? Then they're doing a much better job at it than they would if they WERE in. And the EU's policy on refugees is hapharzardous at best; the UK could go about it in a more sensible fashion that is popular with the British people.
You're missing the point of the argument, let me make it simple enough for even brexiteers to understand. UK out of EU means it will lose it's power to influence what goes on in Brussels, we go from being a loud voice to a bunch of has-been's that nobody needs to listen to. Meanwhile countries like Germany and France become even more important in deciding what happens in the continent. The net result is that no matter how big our policies on climate change are, nobody gives a sh!t. Think of this way, Scotland can have a massive say and influence on things that happen in the UK because we want to keep Scotland in the UK. As soon as Scotland leaves the UK they go from being highly important in UK elections and referendums to being unimportant. The same applies to us and the EU.
The "refugee crisis" was CAUSED by the EU. Their Common Asylum Policy.
Climate change will not be solved by an unelected Political union the people haven't consented.
Got to interview Nigel Farage
+Jimmy E Moorby You really are a nasty person. don't like his politics, resort to homophobia. For my money, he brings out the best in whoever he interviews, even tories. Hannan comes across as a thoughtful person, but still and all, he's a tory. and recommending IDS and Gove sort of tarnishes his credibility.
+Jimmy E Moorby perhaps not homophobic, but there is a nasty sub text which becomes personal. Disagree with with his political stance, but don't descend into name calling. for my money, he is one of the most articulate commentators around. he interviews everyone regardless of political persuasion...and is respectful!!! and BTW, from his accent, it is very possible that he comes from a working class background. but that doesn't matter to me if I agree with what he says. I liked Tony Benn, and he was hardly working class!
+adrian Last Mea maxima culpa! You are correct of course. He didn't actually make a overt homophobic comment. My reaction was to his name calling which seemed to me at the time to be such.
+Jimmy E Moorby I'm hardly contemporary, being 72. I don't think I'm a metropolitan lefty either. You wouldn't have come across much, if any, homophobia if you are only 31. People's attitudes have thankfully changed to a large degree since I was your age, when it was certainly rife. witness Peter Tatchell's experiences.
I'm now beginning to think that my original comment carried some weight! Why is Tatchell a disgusting pervert? He want s to lower the age of consent to what...16 years old? i Don't know. Please elucidate. If I'm right, that would make it the same as for heteros. Are we talking equality?
Hannan is an incredibly intelligent man; he knows how to convert left-leaning viewers to vote for a Brexit.
+Benjamin Blake I know lots of people on the left who will vote to leave, like myself. I'm not sure if it's even so much a question of right and left to be honest
+Sonic Pellet Absolutely right. Why? Because if you vote Tory or Labour or Lib Dem or SNP or Green or Plaid Cymru whoever you vote for you get the EU. Because our law has to conform to EU regulations first of all, and then their court has the last say even over our supreme court. So no matter whether you are on the right or the left or in the centre if you want your vote to actually mean something you have to vote leave to get our sovereignty back.
Well, I would argue the EU imposes certain business regulations for the environment and a better welfare state which right wingers from UKIP and conservatives likely dislike.
+The Wereduck And do you like the idea of TTIP?
TTIP isn't a part of the EU Britain has to accept, and they are barely related to the EU.
Pity you didn't ask him about the BS he gave Fox News about the NHS.
+Heads Tails In what way were his comments about the NHS wrong?
jonnysongs I would recommend you have a quick look around for the videos....
I know what he said, I'm just wondering why you think it was wrong. He was right about the NHS in my opinion.
This guy is by far my favourite tory. What I like about him is that he knows you're allowed to be left on certain things and right on other things.
It's called being a libertarian. If the conservatives were like hannan I'd have no problem voting for them
He is highly intelligent too. It disappoints me that Jones has discussions with people like Dan and still wants to remain in the EU without question, rather bizarre
A Tory is never left on anything. A Tory by definition, highly selfish. The last Tory to have had anything like left views must be Enoch Powell who opposed nuclear weapons.
Adam Powell Hannan was aganist the war in Iraq but Blair on the other hand...
@@pylianpbappe8898 So he has a redeeming feature.
I agree with Dan. If Corbyn came out to vote to leave the EU, which he rightly should as we know how he feels about it deep down... Owen would follow (Please)
But Corbyn is pro leave. He's been heavily resisting Labour pressure to remain and even now has only come out as 'we'll back remain if the only other option is the tories do it'. Owen still supports remain in spite of that.
That was a fantastic interview. He seems like on of the few Torys i would vote for.
Say no to the EU, Owen. There will be no reform.
This is too important to put party before country.
Daniel Hannan is eloquent, intelligent and speaks clearly and concisely. I was eurosceptic in the first place, but his oratory wins it hands down for me. If he was in it for himself he wouldn't be asking the public to vote leave and make him redundant.
I should just say, I know we haven't had any comments videos or vlogs recently. I've been travelling around a lot recently and Adam's been really busy at work, plus we've been filming loads of these interviews.
We will be doing more... eventually!
+Owen Jones We should never adopt the euro Owen, i hope you don;t advocate this in thee guardian
+Owen Jones Interview Mary Berry :P
+Owen Jones He does not support the NHS, he does seem nice though. You keep checking my perspective of right wing characters! Peter Hitchens just reminds me of my dad now, a little pessimistic and racist who had hopes and dreams for Britain.
+Joseph Stanton Its cool, watch Hitchens v Hitchens from 2008 and you'll quickly go back to hating him again lol
+Joseph Stanton 'racist' fnarr
I've never agreed so much with a Tory politician, that was probably deliberate on his part, but he did raise some good points.
god I hope we vote to leave
hm
The only reason why I am voting to stay in the EU is because I do not trust the conservative government to run this country without being restricted by Europe.
So you are willing to surrender your liberty and that of future generations over an issue that you can directly influence in the next general election? What would your solution be if a future government that you support was prevented from introducing policy by the EU?
+Rob Young Literally the worst argument for staying in the EU i have ever heard.
shit. this made me like Daniel hannan a bit.
+MessiSeconds Daniel Hannan may have different views to me on many issues but he, like Dave Davis, is a serious political thinker. There too too many cloney lightweights in politics across all the parties.
+hammondsphoto sure I agree, but his empirical stuff on EU is frequently complete crap
+MessiSeconds What do you mean by " his empirical stuff on EU is frequently complete crap"? Do you not like hearing undeniable evidence that contradicts your viewpoint?
+sangetube you're right, that's my problem, cheers for clarifying
Have to agree with Daniel Hannan - whilst were talking about devolving powers to smaller regions in the UK, the government are pushing the idea that a European Union is best for us all.
Britain isn’t like continental Europe
I hate Tories...so how come this guy is talking my language and Labour aren't?
For 'fact' read 'cobblers'.
I think that what Mr. Hannan said about multinational corporatist lobbying in Brussels, ought to be shouted from the rooftops.
Anyone who deplores the corrupting effects of multis like Monsanto and Nestle, ought to be worried about the fact that -- unlike in some places, where lobbyists are monitored or restricted -- what goes on behind closed doors in Brussels is largely invisible to the media and consequently, to the voters. And multis all favor the structure of the EU, since it makes the money they spend to buy support from politicians, go a lot further than if they were having to lobby a couple of dozen different nations. In short: Brussels makes the lobbying efforts of multis FAR more efficient.
I agree with Dan here. Sorry Owen but you are wrong on the European Union.
IIzRoBzII Given your political compass, you should look up other libertarians, like Daniel, and forget authoritarians like Owen.
A good interview, vote to leave Owen, you know it's the right thing to do.
+WayT101
no, we can reform it.
+OnlyThe TruthMatters Your partner has cheated on you, beat you, stolen from you, Lied to you and mocked you and you want to pay them money in the vague hope they 'might' change after an absolutely pathetic 'renegotiation'? How sad.
Owen, I don't think I've heard you talk about this so if you have you can just link me to that, but what's your opinion on the people who push safe spaces and the extreme end of political correctness that we're seeing slowly infect British and American universities, destroying essential freedoms of speech, thought, expression etc.
"once in a generation referendum"
*Wants 2nd referendum*
Daniel said the top reason im voting leave, The EU is a undemocratic institution and shows no chance of change.
And that is what Tony Benn said, and what George Galloway says, and what Dr David Owen says, and Jacob Rees Mogg says and what Kate Hoey says, and Frank Field, and Clare Fox says.... basically anyone who knows anything and does not have a vested interest in lying.
Yep. No huge bureaucracy like the EU/EP has, or ever will, relinquish power; it will only ever keep drawing it from the individual sovereign states and consolidating it.
If people think it's bad now, why on earth would they ever think it's going to get better?!
+Afifah Hamilton douglas murray peter hitchens and the list goes on...
I like Owen when he's smiley, and willing to listen to other's views. He's very likable actually!
Great interview Owen, really enjoyed this one
Very well done, both by the interviewer and the interviewed. Thank you for this, Owen. I appreciate it very much.
I really love your interviews Owen; a great antidote to the ridiculous, adversarial nonsense we get in the mainstream media. Good to see people of opposing views actually listen to one another. Keep up the good work!
hew Owen, have you read his book yet? I bought it as a result of your video, nearly finished it, a great read. It will turn you around to the light side. Come join us in leaving, and making Britain great once more.
Dammit, a likeable Tory.
I feel like I'm betraying myself even saying that.
Mandatory equality of opportunity - yes.
Mandatory equality of outcome - no.
I've been following Hannan for a number of years now - since I saw him debating in the European parliament - he is just brilliant and has really restored my faith in Politics and in the Conservative party - forget Johnson (although I do like him immensely) and defo forget Osborne - Daniel Hannan is by far the most credible to be the future leader of the Tories - he's such an excellent orator and is also very warm and down to earth - I simply can't stress enough the effect he has had on me - extremely positive - inspirational :)
Here here!
Speaking as a Green party voter I'd rather have somebody like him as Tory leader, I may disagree fundamentally with what he thinks, but he's very upfront about who he is, unlike most of the other candidates and the incumbent.
That's interesting as the last two local and general elections I have voted green - given I live in a safe Tory seat I didn't see the point in 'wasting' my vote so thought that voting green would at least show I care for the environment etc and greens are currently the only other party I could stomach voting for... (Although bring back Lucas asap!) Really I'm desperately waiting for a Libertarian movement/party - for that I'd join up and become a fully bonified party member ;) I respect your refreshingly open , honest and unbiased stance... Cheers!
I agree, Hannan has spoken consistently well and with clarity on the EU, and has been a real star of the EU referendum debate. I wonder if he will move into the UK Conservative Party following the leave result? However, he might well stay on as an MEP to try influence the EU internally while the Article 50 negotiations are underway.
+leakycheese I wish he could do both, as I really think his sort is what's needed to negotiate sensible withdrawal from the EU and to lead the Conservative party towards a bright future for our newly independent nation :) He has come out of all of this with honour 100% intact - the level the debate descended to on both sides, I'm not sure many could claim that! He really is a true Gent... among a sea of vultures!
I'm still a comitted EU fan, but this was the best argument for leaving I have heard from any politician EVER. He is also a very interesting guy, with sincere views some of which I actually agree with (PR, drugs, the anti-democracy of the EU (although that isn't a big enough of an issue to cause me to vote leave)). The best politician in the Tory party I have heard speak, I want to hear more from him, and I'm a Corbynite!
Yeah, fuck democracy... I mean it's not that big of an issue.
LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!
I believe that you are well within your rights to surrender any and all of your liberty, should you wish to do so but don't you fucking dare give mine away. Who the fuck do you think you are to even think that is okay?
Great stuff Owen. We want you to interview Gove. It HAS to be done.
+Jeremy Bunce - absolutely essential!
When this bloke mentioned the anathema of cannabis versus tobacco and alcohol, he went right up in my estimation. Why is he a Tory? I ask myself.
+Mark Hammond because he believes in capitalism.
He's a genuine Tory advocating classical liberalism & promoting 'neo-Thacherism.' I am still aligned with the Tory party because of chaps like Dan.
Classic conservative philosophy is much more libertarian than the neo-conservative, big-government "Conservative" Party we see today - it pertains to a smaller state, greater individual freedom and less intervention in both personal terms and foreign policy. Hannan is simply a classical conservative!
He said so himself, he values economic freedom more than personal freedoms. Plus I don't see Labour currently offering a decriminalisation currently. That would leave the Liberal Democrats, who currently don't really stand for anything...
I think that Dan needs to revive and lead the Whig Party!
I'm amazed at how much love there is for Hannan in the comments
Thanks for the interview, Dan Hannan is awesome!!
Owen if you have any balls you will fly to the US and meet Thomas Sowell.
To have his entire leftist belief system dismantled? He'd be wise to avoid it.
Person Exactly! He would crush him.
Tom Edwards Have you read his work? He is no where near his old Marxist days.
Seems mil a genuinely good guy
I think like many on the left, I genuinely don't feel strongly either way on Europe. I'm there to be persuaded. I'd love to hear a good interview with someone fighting in the other corner.
+pezzamange I have been looking hard, and so far have found no convincing argument for the stay in EU campaign. I'd love a link if you find one.
It's hard to counter guys like Tony Benn when they rattle off reason after reason to leave. Sovereignty, democracy, the despotism of the EU, the corporate lobbying, the miss management, the non transparency of the commission, the unbelievable cost of membership, the backhanders and corruption to get exclusive contracts, the criminal records of the commission. Just to mention a few points.
I have not found any serious reason to stay that stands up to scrutiny.
Thank you for interviewing him Owen. Great to see you discuss politics with so many Right Winger's!
This is a really interesting conversation to listen to a couple of years later. Even if you watched it before, it's worth watching again given everything we now know about what played out.
Holy moly, I actually kinda like this guy.
+Tom Walton Daniel Hannan is one of the best politicians of our time. You should look up his speeches !
Great interview , I really wish it could have been longer . Respect to you both .
I love these interviews! You challenge them, but let them answer! A complete change for interviews that I've watched for the past few years!
This man is on record as calling the NHS a 60-year "mistake". Well done, Owen - I don't think I could have spoken to him without losing my lunch.
Love Europe Leave EU
I would be interested to hear exactly why you want to stay in the EU, Owen. I would consider myself fairly left wing but when it comes to the EU debate i'm yet to hear a convincing argument for the IN campaign.
+Phil Cresswell UK has been in the UK for decades and people don't know any advantages of being in the EU. It is kind of pathetic to be honest
I'd listen to him all day as well. An excellent speaker who is now in the House of Lords.
Great interview Owen, I love it when you go and speak to people with whom you don't completely agree. Breaking out of the echo chamber!
Heartening stuff. Clever, principled people laying a foundation for cooperation despite ideological differences
What does Mr Hannan know about Michael Gove that I don't, all I know about him is what I've seen, apparent arrogance & incompetence.
Otherwise interesting interview, but the Gove thing is a real head scratcher.
Thanks for sharing.
Finally an adult conversation unlike the HOC shouting and jeering like kids
I really like how you always respect other peoples views and try to find common ground with them. My type of approach there :)
You lift my spirits
Your best yet. Kudos to both.
Yey they got Daniel Hannan on!
Owen, I've been puzzled about this for a long time. If Daniel and many other MEPs (probably all of UKIP and most of the Tories) want to leave the EU. Why are they MEPs? I would imagine that they wouldn't have been fully engaged with the UKs position in the EU all these years if they always wanted to leave. If ANYONE was to support being in the EU, I would have thought the MEPs would be those people. Any thoughts?
I am genuinely impressed given some of OJ's penned articles of reactionary outrage. This is how it should be, asking an intelligent opposition, listening, not interrupting then rebuttal.
Everything that Labour Momentum is not. Bravo Owen.
I love these interviews with people you normally rant at. Good job. You see, we can all get along.
Great interview Owen, he knows you agree with most of what he says about leaving the EU deep down. You made a great case for this in an earlier post and then did a kind of Uturn later on. On leaving the EU this guy makes a great argument,even if he is a tory.For me this mainly comes down to democracy and accountability which I always thought were at the top of what you believe in.
Here is a fab 10 min interview with Dan the Man from 2009 I think. I has lovely close up shots of this clean, intelligent, big eyed, cool, calm and collected man. Let's have him as Prime Minister! I don't care what party he associates with. It is his clarity and knowledge that I want running things.
Danial Hannan is a class act
Hannan should've been used more by the Leave side, less divisive and more moderate than Johnson or Farage. He could turn a lot of marginal Remain votes.
The craziest thing for me throughout this whole referendum is the fact politics has totally shifted with regards to Europe. You've got Hannan, a Thatcherite Tory, sounding like the modern day reincarnation of Tony Benn, speaking passionately for democracy and devolution of power. On the other side you've got Jeremy Corbyn. Anti EU to the core. Has been since 73. Now campaigning to keep us in. For no other reason than to keep his job. Even going again the Labour Party members that used their democratic vote to put him in a place he never believed he would end up. This referendum could have been Corbyn's legacy. The start of a new socialist/democratic era of the Labour Party. Spelling the end of new labour for good. But instead he chose to go against the principles of his political career and the memory of some of the people who he forged his strongest political alliances. For no other reason I can see than to keep his job as leader.
Hi Owen, another great video with a dynamic politician, I think either soon or close to the referendum you should do an interview with Yanis Varoufakis as he makes the case for the left remaining very well & is also advising Corbyn's team
Great interview, I like Hannan cause he actually explains his logic!
Thanks for this Owen. I enjoy watching your videos due to the insight it offers. I'm something of an Old Whig in the Tory party & I'd advocate Daniel Hannan as PM one day, thus this interview is greatly appreciated. 😄👍
Daniel Hannan is a very intelligent person whom I have much respect for, despite disagreeing with him on the EU.
I was expecting to cringe through this but he actually talked a lot of sense and on most of the issues
+ThePaperclipGuy
When you realise you have been wrong all along
***** no, hence I was surprised because he was actually right.. not me ..
Now Farage!
Of course Owen is calm and polite at this point in time because he's convinced the UK will be voting to remain. He's an obviously angrier man today.
Could be worse, Jeremy Corbyn could be PM
+LukeBD150 Jeremy Corbyn being PM would be a great thing for the country
+Totalwarking7 not at all, only a hard lefty would be ignorant enough to believe that
Only a close-minded right winger would be against it
+Totalwarking7 wow haha 'close-minded' because I have common sense and am not selfish enough to want a Corbyn run government
So wanting a fairer and more equal society makes me seflish. don't be so ridiculous.
Very good interview, very informed and articulate, almost a likeable Conservative.
Why only almost?
Junk Bucket Well Conservatism isn't just about agreeing with my views on Europe. It's much more than just that, and I wouldn't agree with most of his other views. Still, I do predict this guy will go far, I think he has a big future.
I'm actually gonna buy that book
+mattfm101 I got it on audible
excellent interview. it is good to see some common ground between the left and right and also have an amicable discussion
That was a superb interview. I was very impressed with Daniel. I thought he was far more right wing and libertarian. My belief in democracy suggests I should agree with him and vote brexit but my idealism wants to believe in a united democratic Europe. Is that something we can achieve through the Democracy in Europe Movement advocated by Yanis Varoufakis? I would very much appreciate a discussion of the very pessimistic scenario painted by Varoufakis should the EU disintegrate, what do other experts predict might happen? It's actually central to how I might vote in the referendum.
Never agreed with a Tory on so many things! #voteout
enjoyed this Interview a lot, thanks.
A really great interview Owen, the topics you spoke of were really on point. As for Daniel Hannan, for a tory MP I've always liked him, he seems a bit of a rebel among the Tories. I only hope you read that book well and change your vote to leave. As Daniel said, I know you are backing Corbyn and believe me I like Corbyn, but he has changed his mind after supporting Tony Benn all those years and now saying he thinks we should remain in the Eu??? Leaves me asking a couple questions on him, but none the less, I still like him a lot and will keep my eyes on him but lets leave the EU yeah. Keep up the great work.
+Nate Peace I think that should be the new leave slogan: "let's leave the EU, yeah?"
+epiphany55 the power of suggestion my friend.
Why isn't the torie party led by nice uns like this chap. I could almost bring myself to thinking about voting for them if it was
Great interview! I was surprised by his stance on drugs! When will we snap to our senses a legalise at the very least cannabis..
Love Hannan! He is so clear-thinking, articulate, honest and intelligent. He should be playing a much more prominent role in the referendum. This is the kind of guy who should be leading our country - not the reprehensible creeps who ARE running the major parties right now. Roll on INDEPENDENCE DAY!!
He's right about IDS. When people spend all their time huffing and puffing about strange motives and psychopathic tendencies, they'll never persuade anyone the Tories are wrong because of what they actually believe.
Good series of videos, Owen.
know not now
Fabulous interview. Thank you - sane intelligent reasonable argument.
Decentralisation of power and a democratic EU do not contradict each other. It's federalism, dealing with appropriate issues at the appropriate level. My parish council ain't gonna solve climate change
+Joe Peacock Yes, but why can't a fully democratically elected British government do this? I think the point Hannan made about "good king / bad parliament" was really interesting. Yes the EU puts climate change at the forefront of it's concerns, but what if this changes? If we are moving towards a de facto (or perhaps not..) federal United States of Europe and this focus on Climate change shifts; if we don't have full democracy how can we change it back? Just a thought and I am still very much undecided.
Hannan, David Davis and Michael Gove are always worth listening to. 15 minutes without mentioning immigration As someone undecided we need to hear more of Hannan and less of Farage and Daily Mail
I think Owen has the hots for Hannan.
+David B I think people have said that about every single interview we've put up on this channel. You lot must think I fancy absolutely everyone.
Just the Tory meat.
+Owen Jones its your big doe eyes ;)
+Owen Jones I think I fancy him a little
+Tom Buckley A debate between Dan and Stephen Kinnock would be confusing but illuminating
Perish the thought if we ever join the euro and also schengen with Turkey waiting to be a member
Thanks so much for doing this!
+Edward Rowe No problem
A pity to offer this man a soap box without challenging his ideas, as he clearly would be a good partner for a debate, alongside that it's hardly useful to be so helpful to the opposition.
Dan a great guy as usual. Always talks straight with no nonsense. Always answers the question. A rare breed indeed.
Clicked because I'm a great fan of Dan Hannan - have to say I'm no fan of your politics though Owen so subscribing would eventually give me high blood pressure (sorry). That said, great interview and good to see some potential common ground.
Thanks for the upload.
vote leave
I agree with his arguments about democracy but not with his solution. I personally think federalism would work best for everyone. The perfect balance between decentralization and centralization.
I'd rather have this guy as PM than any other tory. Never thought I'd say something like that.
Mr Tony Benn has just turned in his grave 😔.