Race mode looks cool. Hopefully backwards portable to v4 & v5. Not enough of an incentive just yet for a full upgrade but would enhance the value of legacy Kickrs.
@@eloyzwift Yes, will be available on v5 with direct connect soon. Confirmed with Wahoo support via Twitter. For some damn reason every link I put on this thread is being removed.
@@stephenbetley9596 no problem! Much appreciated that you find the information and share it with the community. Happy if it is before March 25th because than I will do my virtual Everesting attempt on the Alpe. Responsive power will be very helpful too.
"Race Mode " is an interesting new bullet point in Kickr vs Neo debate. I expect there will be some complaints in the race community for a while, until Tacx et al. come up with a similar offering.
The 10Hz race mode seems to be an advantage to users with the latest kickr. Or in other words, disadvantaging people with the older versions. Looks very smooth indeed.
Cool idea, hopefully they'll roll it out to my Kickr v5. But I wonder if some races will disable it, just like some have disabled steering, for giving an unfair advantage.
I don’t think they can disable it. Zwift is just getting the power readings sooner. They are still accurate, and I don’t know how they would know if its coming from race mode or not.
"Race Mode" sounds interesting, be a nice default IMO - been asking for years to allow trainer apps to negotiate the sample rate with smart devices, for ERG and sim, or power meters etc to do the same with head units. For the smart device side, t's part of the ANT+ FE-C profile, and is trivial to implement from a software point of view when the channel is set-up. Maybe one day...
The beauty of Direct Connect is they have the ability to flick a switch and it just works at 10Hz. Brilliant use of their own connection implementation.
@@gplama Absolutely, just a pity in that the ANT+ FE-C profile in particular is an (effectively) open standard, and all the vendors are supporting a lot of features in it anyway, so.... you know, maybe everybody could just add that couple of extra lines to negotiate the channel period and everyone can benefit :)
Interesting to see PC gaming concerns have stretched to bike trainers. If your equipment is not high tech, you could face around half a second of latency build ups! That's different to what Shane just demoed. Internet connection: 50-500ms (really varies; e.g. copper lines, satellite and fiber optics), on a non-gaming TV 100-200ms or gaming monitor as low as 1ms, wired keyboard or wireless? 10-100ms..
The test at 13:17 seems to have race mode turned off, your rider is still ahead. Judging by the exact same numbers appearing on screen for this particular test (1 reading per second, not as jumpy as the previous tests for the left side). Am I mistaking? Interesting none the less! Good work explaining Shane!
Ahh… good pickup. Yes. That should have been labeled WiFi vs BLE at 1Hz test. I was doing a ton of tests to see the results. BLE never won.. regardless of the mode.
@@brian_simmons_ My sentiments exactly, if it works with DC and v5 has one then in theory it should work unless they are intentionally trying to push people to buy the v6.
@@andreiivashkevich1847 race mode is supported over wifi and Direct Connect (dircon), which is wired. The v5 is compatible with the dircon dongle as is the v6
I can't think of any technical reason this wouldn't work over Bluetooth (LE is a different story though). Gaming mice work in the low kHz range for signalling with almost no lag, and headsets work at 100kHz+ (when you count the multiple channels). ANT+ is definitely locked at 4Hz reporting by my read of the spec, so that's a little slower. Not sure how often each different trainer model reports though - maybe worth a test using a quick test app!
The comparison with mice is a good one, the one with headsets not so much. Even though the audio signal is 48 kHz or even higher, the rate at which packets are transmitted is not. (it's lower because each packet contains multiple samples)
@@OnnoMolenkamp Agreed. I just mentioned the audio as it showed that raw bandwidth wouldn't be anything near a limit either. The crazy thing is from a pure protocol point of view, Bluetooth has lower latency than WiFi so the whole WiFi/Direct Connect thing is really quite an odd outcome for "performance". I suspect the Bluetooth device templates were built to emulate ANT+ or something equally as daft but don't have the time right now to dig out all the spec sheets. The answer is more likely one of control - Garmin controls BT and ANT+ protocol specs, Wahoo controls their own proprietary DirCon protocol.
What an interesting update for the Kickr! I wonder if we will see the update happen for BLE connections from Wahoo and others. SB20 - Still the ugly sister in the smart bike world it seems - no love from anyone (well apart from FulGaz) for the extra controls and features it has
The SB20 got some love from me as I just purchased one with the full year of Zwift included special, although I will be using it with FulGaz😊. Guess I gave some love to both. Not interested in racing, did that in real life, time trials. Currently train on an old Wahoo Kickr Snap, just for aerobic fitness and prefer indoors to fit my time schedule regardless of weather/traffic etc. Looked at the new Wahoo V6, their bike some other bike brands and wheel off trainers. Then Stages came out with their offer with a reduced price also. It seemed to offer everything I wanted from a trainer, bike or wheel off unit so I got it. Should be arriving soon. Time will tell how good it will be for me but lots of love for them in the meantime. Good though to see the advancements in indoor training trying to bring more realism to it to better simulate outdoor riding which is still perhaps the most enjoyable.
That steering contraption won't be saving any of those shakey Wahoo profit warnings 😂 always shadey when a company launches a product & immediately sells it as on sale, or "half price", that thing was never $100 & would never sell at that price. Hoping Race mode comes to Kickr Bike, concentrate on updates like this Wahoo! 🚲👏
Faster sample rates are always appreciated, but it's a shame that the FTMS spec (and the trainer companies after the fact) didn't add a timestamped energy accumulator. That pretty much gets rid of all of the time-based wattage hacks for racers and can also heal brief dropouts for rec players. Concept2 rowers have had it for a long time.
Hey Shane, is this a slow roll out thing? I updated my app, updated Kickr V6 firmware and paired with WIFI but the Race Mode is not an option in the app😅
Was this also a change in Zwift or have they always been able to receive and reflect data at a faster rate? If so why are we just getting this? Who thought 1 second power inputs make sense when races are decided by half a wheel in an online environment.
It's a shame they this "race mode" isn't available for v5 Kickrs. I guess the rest of us just have to deal with the power lags. My direct connect seems to improve things slightly, but not enough to really make a difference in races.
@@gplama i have a bug with the wahoo Kickr in ERG mode (and I know that others do too) where the reported power drops periodically even when pedalling constantly. It seems like a higher polling rate might help fix that if applied to ERG mode. It’s frustrating not to simply expose the setting and let users decide for themselves on a car by case basis
Hi Shane. Some advice please. I am soon moving to a new home where I will have a dedicated space for a home gym. I intend upgrading my dumb exercise bike with a smart trainer, probably a Wahoo Kickr Bike. this will be connected to the TV/display via an Apple TV. My question is this, would the Apple TV work in this configuration? Connected to the TV/display via HDMI; connected to the internet via WIFI; connected to the trainer via Direct Connect Ethernet cable; connected to the HR monitor via Bluetooth? Any advice will be appreciated.
While this is wildly cool, I'd much prefer Wahoo do the simple things well first. IE, a calendar that doesn't completely suck within the SYSTM app. You know, the basics.
Curious for a comparison to Tacx. Riding a Neo2t connected to Zwift on Mac over bluetooth; wattage reporting definitely faster than 1 Hz (not sure exact frequency)
Shane. Great video. I have ensured the update and set up the race mode toggle but things are not working on the V6... is that little black box showing the race mode toggle on the top left of your screen supposed to show?
I’m with you on that. I just bought a Zwift Hub instead of a Kickr because of the price and because my power is reported with great accuracy from my pedals. No issues at all but after seeing this new development, feeling a little buyers remorse and hope for future improvements
make me wonder if with 10x more data reporting that Zwift had to upgrade/enhance their infrastructure. Prob not enough people right now to make a huge difference, but I imagine if enough people use race mode, that 10x sample rate would increase data. Well, you covered it in the end of the video that Zwift only records in 1x...but, the bandwidth would still need to be able to handle it. I wonder too if hardcore racers have ever considered a "hardwired" connection from the trainer...if they even have that. Gamers always have a Cat6 connection to the router to remove wifi lag.
That'd be an interesting query for Zwift. I'd imagine the rider positioning in-game needs to be updated/sent more than once a second. Steering comes to mind... Unless it's all done locally and only sent at 1Hz, letting the server handle the rest.
If you’re pedalling at 60rpm then you’re only doing 2 pedal strokes per second. I think if you start polling the power readings too often then then the data would effectively become junk wouldn’t it? Watts is a measure of joules per second - I think if you make the window for the pooling too short you’d end up with wildly fluctuating power that didn’t really reflect the work.
Their old trainers are so good they need to sell new/more products (financial woes aside). alas they do this. makes things ripe for a frequency war akin to rc racing years ago folks who do/did RC racing then would know. only things that mattered there where elec resistance (N/A here) and, you guessed it, switching rate. -U10
Wahoo are in a unique position that they developed the Direct Connect and had almost all platforms implement support for it. If other companies wanted to follow this lead they'd either need to implement Direct Connect (unlikely but not impossible) or use ANT+ / BLE at higher data rates..... which could very well cause compatibility issues with legacy hardware.
Likely less as the drop-off is also faster (which should also relate to cadence as that is also sent over Direct Connect). I'd have to test this to confirm any in-game change to supertuck though.
@@gplama that was my thoughts, but your slow down test was interesting. But that could be explained, would need to see a few repeats of that to see if it changed on other repeats. Was good to watch!
With Zwift and Wahoo still at war with each other over the Hub trainer. Is this them trying to get one over on Zwift? Could Zwift potentially put a stop to this via a game update?
No idea where things are at with that battle. Of course Zwift could lock out Direct Connect (or any other device) from their platform. Image the fallout if they did.
would you still get the benefits of "race mode" if you direct connect to a laptop connected by wifi? or would you have to be direct connected to a hard lined system?
@@gplama It would be interesting to hear how they comment on their main competitor releasing race mode. Will they talk it down, will they hint something similar for the neo series, etc?
@@gplama I contacted garmin US support just now, and they gave this statement: "As far as we know, Tacx does not have any features like this and this appears to be strictly a feature available to Wahoo Trainer. We do not have any announcements or plans to introduce any upcoming features that provide this Race mode feature." When I asked what frequency the neo 2t is reporting power at, they said they will check and come back via email. Couldn't find that number in the specs, maybe you have the info? =)
@@gplama Some further feedback from garmin: "After further review, smart Trainers like the Tacx Neo or Tacx Flux series record power every second and in terms of reporting can cause the power value to jump around because these trainers have the ability to record instantaneous power levels with more info per second than other smart trainers. The innovative power flow design and motor design of our NEO smart trainers are enhanced by a highly intelligent mind. The position of all rotating parts is specified and controlled a thousand times per second, so the electronics are always in control of the feeling in the rider’s legs. "
In e Sports people have 120 Hz displays (some even more) and at much higher FPS than zwift will ever have. So a 10-fold increase is not a competitive edge, it is a must.
This sounds great but if my Kickr stops responding on WiFi, it more than negates any benefit. I still have unreliable connection quality with my Kickr 6 on WiFi. I will get periodic dropouts of my Kickr for no known reason while I am still able to stream Zwift to my TV from my laptop connected to WiFi. Location and bandwidth are not an issue. I have been keeping it on Ant+ where I have no issues.
My Kickr 6 is rock solid on Wifi, not even one drop out since I bought it in September last year and about 4000km with heaps of racing. It will be your wifi network - upgrade to mesh or go direct connect.
@@occyman I'm already on a WiFi 6 mesh network. Direct connect defeats the purpose of getting the Kickr 6 over the Kickr 5. I guess I need to contact Wahoo.
@@gplama I guess the point I was making, albeit badly, was that most people won't have a v6 so will have to buy the over priced cable if on v5 and want to benefit from this feature. Saying all this, Bluetooth is ample fast enough to cope with the data requirements of race mode anyway but it would be programmed as such but that's a whole new discussion.
Looks great - I'm not sure why you'd ever have it turned off. Andy hopefully this will trickle down to things like future versions of the Core
Found this video on Thursday, purchased a v6 today :D Where has Race Mode been all my life? lol
Shots fired by Wahoo. Your move Tacx.
Thanks Shane, really appreciate the indepth review and comparisons at the end, interesting and very helpful.
Race mode looks cool. Hopefully backwards portable to v4 & v5. Not enough of an incentive just yet for a full upgrade but would enhance the value of legacy Kickrs.
Me too... I bought the v5 a few weeks before the release and I have the Connect for a Cable connection so a improvement will be nice.
@@eloyzwift Yes, will be available on v5 with direct connect soon. Confirmed with Wahoo support via Twitter. For some damn reason every link I put on this thread is being removed.
@@stephenbetley9596 no problem! Much appreciated that you find the information and share it with the community.
Happy if it is before March 25th because than I will do my virtual Everesting attempt on the Alpe. Responsive power will be very helpful too.
AHDR Wednesday night. Might be the most humbling reality check on Zwift. Hate it but love it.
Well done again from wahoo re race mode.. hope they are okay (as per some reports) the industry needs them ..🤞🤞🤞
cycling industry - always after our monies 🤨.
quality review!
This will make drafting in TTT's easier and more realistic too!
Glad I just got a v6. Will be trying this in the Race Scotland series!
Ok that race mode really is the first thing I've seen for trainers where I get the noiceeee. I hate the sticky watts!
"Race Mode " is an interesting new bullet point in Kickr vs Neo debate.
I expect there will be some complaints in the race community for a while, until Tacx et al. come up with a similar offering.
Race mode looks amazing!
Very cool
I can't wait to try this. I use Elite Sterzo. I like the realistic movement with Sterzo
Race Mode is interesting, very interesting.
I want me some Race Mode!!!!
It is really cool. Cannot wait to try it
The 10Hz race mode seems to be an advantage to users with the latest kickr. Or in other words, disadvantaging people with the older versions. Looks very smooth indeed.
Cool idea, hopefully they'll roll it out to my Kickr v5. But I wonder if some races will disable it, just like some have disabled steering, for giving an unfair advantage.
I don’t think they can disable it. Zwift is just getting the power readings sooner. They are still accurate, and I don’t know how they would know if its coming from race mode or not.
RACE MODE is Amazing!
"Race Mode" sounds interesting, be a nice default IMO - been asking for years to allow trainer apps to negotiate the sample rate with smart devices, for ERG and sim, or power meters etc to do the same with head units. For the smart device side, t's part of the ANT+ FE-C profile, and is trivial to implement from a software point of view when the channel is set-up. Maybe one day...
The beauty of Direct Connect is they have the ability to flick a switch and it just works at 10Hz. Brilliant use of their own connection implementation.
@@gplama Absolutely, just a pity in that the ANT+ FE-C profile in particular is an (effectively) open standard, and all the vendors are supporting a lot of features in it anyway, so.... you know, maybe everybody could just add that couple of extra lines to negotiate the channel period and everyone can benefit :)
Interesting to see PC gaming concerns have stretched to bike trainers. If your equipment is not high tech, you could face around half a second of latency build ups! That's different to what Shane just demoed.
Internet connection: 50-500ms (really varies; e.g. copper lines, satellite and fiber optics), on a non-gaming TV 100-200ms or gaming monitor as low as 1ms, wired keyboard or wireless? 10-100ms..
I’ve raised ping time as an issue for esports results a while ago…. largely ignored. It’s a huge influence on the results
Any idea when Race Mode will come to the KICKR Bike V2?
Yes. Why isn’t it already?
The test at 13:17 seems to have race mode turned off, your rider is still ahead. Judging by the exact same numbers appearing on screen for this particular test (1 reading per second, not as jumpy as the previous tests for the left side). Am I mistaking?
Interesting none the less! Good work explaining Shane!
Ahh… good pickup. Yes. That should have been labeled WiFi vs BLE at 1Hz test. I was doing a ton of tests to see the results. BLE never won.. regardless of the mode.
@@gplama all good mate! The responsiveness is amazing and surely gives an edge. I'll blame my bad results on the fact I don't have this technology!
Nice vid Shane. Do you feel like doing the same comparison using Race mode and power pedals?
Looks incredible. Any word on whether this may be a future firmware for the Kickr v5 with DirectConnect?
Not sure, since v5 does not have wifi module
I'm wondering the same thing, no Wifi Module, but it does have the Direct Connect port.
So Wahoo tweeted that they will make it available for kicker V5 later this year!
@@brian_simmons_ My sentiments exactly, if it works with DC and v5 has one then in theory it should work unless they are intentionally trying to push people to buy the v6.
@@andreiivashkevich1847 race mode is supported over wifi and Direct Connect (dircon), which is wired. The v5 is compatible with the dircon dongle as is the v6
I can't think of any technical reason this wouldn't work over Bluetooth (LE is a different story though). Gaming mice work in the low kHz range for signalling with almost no lag, and headsets work at 100kHz+ (when you count the multiple channels). ANT+ is definitely locked at 4Hz reporting by my read of the spec, so that's a little slower. Not sure how often each different trainer model reports though - maybe worth a test using a quick test app!
The comparison with mice is a good one, the one with headsets not so much. Even though the audio signal is 48 kHz or even higher, the rate at which packets are transmitted is not. (it's lower because each packet contains multiple samples)
@@OnnoMolenkamp Agreed. I just mentioned the audio as it showed that raw bandwidth wouldn't be anything near a limit either.
The crazy thing is from a pure protocol point of view, Bluetooth has lower latency than WiFi so the whole WiFi/Direct Connect thing is really quite an odd outcome for "performance". I suspect the Bluetooth device templates were built to emulate ANT+ or something equally as daft but don't have the time right now to dig out all the spec sheets. The answer is more likely one of control - Garmin controls BT and ANT+ protocol specs, Wahoo controls their own proprietary DirCon protocol.
What an interesting update for the Kickr! I wonder if we will see the update happen for BLE connections from Wahoo and others. SB20 - Still the ugly sister in the smart bike world it seems - no love from anyone (well apart from FulGaz) for the extra controls and features it has
The SB20 got some love from me as I just purchased one with the full year of Zwift included special, although I will be using it with FulGaz😊. Guess I gave some love to both. Not interested in racing, did that in real life, time trials.
Currently train on an old Wahoo Kickr Snap, just for aerobic fitness and prefer indoors to fit my time schedule regardless of weather/traffic etc.
Looked at the new Wahoo V6, their bike some other bike brands and wheel off trainers. Then Stages came out with their offer with a reduced price also. It seemed to offer everything I wanted from a trainer, bike or wheel off unit so I got it. Should be arriving soon. Time will tell how good it will be for me but lots of love for them in the meantime.
Good though to see the advancements in indoor training trying to bring more realism to it to better simulate outdoor riding which is still perhaps the most enjoyable.
That lag has always given me the shits for feeling. I'm selling my old kickr and getting a V6 asap!
Hope race mode coming to V5
Hopelijk so to!
@@emilepas Asked Wahoo the question and got a response that it will be on v5 soon over direct connect. No v4. Needs wifi/ethernet.
would be nice to see a comparison with separate powermeter input Shane
Will this come to the Wahoo Kickr 5? I know theres an Ethernet port and it would be good for Wahoo to support the world's most expensive dongle.
Could be a huge advantage in racing and will be another excuse I can use for not winning!!
That steering contraption won't be saving any of those shakey Wahoo profit warnings 😂 always shadey when a company launches a product & immediately sells it as on sale, or "half price", that thing was never $100 & would never sell at that price. Hoping Race mode comes to Kickr Bike, concentrate on updates like this Wahoo! 🚲👏
Where are you seeing Profit warning? Wahoo private company?..
@@marcm2957 google is your friend "wahoo downgrade"
Faster sample rates are always appreciated, but it's a shame that the FTMS spec (and the trainer companies after the fact) didn't add a timestamped energy accumulator. That pretty much gets rid of all of the time-based wattage hacks for racers and can also heal brief dropouts for rec players. Concept2 rowers have had it for a long time.
thinking about getting a v6 in the future now…
Hey Shane, is this a slow roll out thing? I updated my app, updated Kickr V6 firmware and paired with WIFI but the Race Mode is not an option in the app😅
I have a v5 Kickr but use my Quarq for power. I wonder how fast the power updates on the Quarq via Bluetooth?
What's RGT?🤔
Was this also a change in Zwift or have they always been able to receive and reflect data at a faster rate? If so why are we just getting this? Who thought 1 second power inputs make sense when races are decided by half a wheel in an online environment.
According to Zwift they've always taken the data as fast as as the sensor sends.
Can literally body block people with The new steering
Any drawback with using race mode? Why not have it always enabled?
Will race mode be something able to come to the wahoo kickr bike v2 in the future ?
It's a shame they this "race mode" isn't available for v5 Kickrs. I guess the rest of us just have to deal with the power lags. My direct connect seems to improve things slightly, but not enough to really make a difference in races.
For those without this latest kickr, would be at a disadvantage,so zwift should enforce power smoothing for races in order to level the playing field.
Or give race organizers the option to allow this race mode or not….
When my trainer dies this makes the kickr 6 the turbo I want next
not fair!
Why is the Wahoo "race mode" (higher polling rate) disabled in ERG mode?
It really doesn’t need it. ERG that’s too aggressive leads to a poor experience (looking at the Neo Bike Plus)
@@gplama i have a bug with the wahoo Kickr in ERG mode (and I know that others do too) where the reported power drops periodically even when pedalling constantly. It seems like a higher polling rate might help fix that if applied to ERG mode. It’s frustrating not to simply expose the setting and let users decide for themselves on a car by case basis
Building steering into a base plate could be cool, leaning to steer would be the most realistic.
Only if they make it real-time. Leaning with a 3-5sec movement lag would be frustrating.
10hz update on power is now about 9hz faster than Zwift at its best.
Has the neo 2t the same features in terms of power reporting?
It seems to display the watts instantly like the new features of the wahoo kickr v6
same here. exactly the same refresh and no lag on my neo2T
Maybe it's cos I'm old, but what is the point of race mode?
When will Kickr v5 get the same option with "Races Mode"?
Hi Shane. Some advice please. I am soon moving to a new home where I will have a dedicated space for a home gym. I intend upgrading my dumb exercise bike with a smart trainer, probably a Wahoo Kickr Bike. this will be connected to the TV/display via an Apple TV. My question is this, would the Apple TV work in this configuration? Connected to the TV/display via HDMI; connected to the internet via WIFI; connected to the trainer via Direct Connect Ethernet cable; connected to the HR monitor via Bluetooth? Any advice will be appreciated.
Do you reckon they will roll it out to kickr v1 original?! 🥺
While this is wildly cool, I'd much prefer Wahoo do the simple things well first.
IE, a calendar that doesn't completely suck within the SYSTM app. You know, the basics.
Curious for a comparison to Tacx. Riding a Neo2t connected to Zwift on Mac over bluetooth; wattage reporting definitely faster than 1 Hz (not sure exact frequency)
It could possibly be 4Hz. I'd need to do some digging.
Shane. Great video. I have ensured the update and set up the race mode toggle but things are not working on the V6... is that little black box showing the race mode toggle on the top left of your screen supposed to show?
That’s a video overlay I did; it’s not part of Zwift.
@@gplama oh gosh thanks for clarifying that! I thought dammit mine is broken.. lol Ride on
Will it ever come to Kikr Core?
Not until that gets DIRCON… which will need new hardware.
I’ve noticed the lag with zwift and my Hub over bluetooth and Companion. Is there anything that can be done to improve this outside the Wahoo line?
I’m with you on that. I just bought a Zwift Hub instead of a Kickr because of the price and because my power is reported with great accuracy from my pedals. No issues at all but after seeing this new development, feeling a little buyers remorse and hope for future improvements
Can I use my elite sterzo for steering?
I cant see why they cant do race mode on the v5 kickr
Helo, do you have any long time review of zwift hub in the pipeline?
make me wonder if with 10x more data reporting that Zwift had to upgrade/enhance their infrastructure. Prob not enough people right now to make a huge difference, but I imagine if enough people use race mode, that 10x sample rate would increase data. Well, you covered it in the end of the video that Zwift only records in 1x...but, the bandwidth would still need to be able to handle it. I wonder too if hardcore racers have ever considered a "hardwired" connection from the trainer...if they even have that. Gamers always have a Cat6 connection to the router to remove wifi lag.
That'd be an interesting query for Zwift. I'd imagine the rider positioning in-game needs to be updated/sent more than once a second. Steering comes to mind... Unless it's all done locally and only sent at 1Hz, letting the server handle the rest.
Hey Shane, any idea why there is no ‘Like’ button on your TH-cam videos recently?
No idea. TH-cam is a mess.
Even 10 Hz is a bit low and I don't see a reason why both BT (2.4 GHz) and WiFi (5 GHz) shouldn't update more often.
If you’re pedalling at 60rpm then you’re only doing 2 pedal strokes per second. I think if you start polling the power readings too often then then the data would effectively become junk wouldn’t it? Watts is a measure of joules per second - I think if you make the window for the pooling too short you’d end up with wildly fluctuating power that didn’t really reflect the work.
Anyone know what the Kickr Bike refresh rate is?
Gonna be testing the new auto calibration on Zwift hub firmware update?
Already a few hours into this. Rollout of 4.0 firmware has been paused for now.
Their old trainers are so good they need to sell new/more products (financial woes aside). alas they do this. makes things ripe for a frequency war akin to rc racing years ago folks who do/did RC racing then would know. only things that mattered there where elec resistance (N/A here) and, you guessed it, switching rate. -U10
Perhaps this race mode would be akin to using a lighter, stiffer and more responsive bike…
Will other brands follow this and launch an update?
Wahoo are in a unique position that they developed the Direct Connect and had almost all platforms implement support for it. If other companies wanted to follow this lead they'd either need to implement Direct Connect (unlikely but not impossible) or use ANT+ / BLE at higher data rates..... which could very well cause compatibility issues with legacy hardware.
@@gplama someone in my club mentioned that tacx had rolled something out in a new firmware today... I'm on a saris h3 so can't verify
Race also für thé kickr core ?
No
Wondering the difference in time to drop into a supertuck between the modes
Likely less as the drop-off is also faster (which should also relate to cadence as that is also sent over Direct Connect). I'd have to test this to confirm any in-game change to supertuck though.
@@gplama that was my thoughts, but your slow down test was interesting. But that could be explained, would need to see a few repeats of that to see if it changed on other repeats. Was good to watch!
Is race mode going to be deployed on Kickr bike as well?
Hopefully we’ll see it in the Kickr Bike v2 (v1 doesn’t have Direct Connect)
With Zwift and Wahoo still at war with each other over the Hub trainer. Is this them trying to get one over on Zwift? Could Zwift potentially put a stop to this via a game update?
No idea where things are at with that battle. Of course Zwift could lock out Direct Connect (or any other device) from their platform. Image the fallout if they did.
disallowed for the worlds race this weekend which is understandable.
would you still get the benefits of "race mode" if you direct connect to a laptop connected by wifi? or would you have to be direct connected to a hard lined system?
WiFi or Ethernet with the Kickr 6 at this point will work at 10Hz.
@@gplama luckily, I have one of them kickr 6s! haha
Does it work with the Kickr bike?
I was going to ask this for the V2 bike
So unless you have the latest most expensive kickr then your gonna lose the race. :(
@gplama Hi Shane, have you reached out to tacx for comment?
In regard to what?
@@gplama It would be interesting to hear how they comment on their main competitor releasing race mode. Will they talk it down, will they hint something similar for the neo series, etc?
@@gplama I contacted garmin US support just now, and they gave this statement: "As far as we know, Tacx does not have any features like this and this appears to be strictly a feature available to Wahoo Trainer. We do not have any announcements or plans to introduce any upcoming features that provide this Race mode feature."
When I asked what frequency the neo 2t is reporting power at, they said they will check and come back via email. Couldn't find that number in the specs, maybe you have the info? =)
@@gplama Some further feedback from garmin: "After further review, smart Trainers like the Tacx Neo or Tacx Flux series record power every second and in terms of reporting can cause the power value to jump around because these trainers have the ability to record instantaneous power levels with more info per second than other smart trainers. The innovative power flow design and motor design of our NEO smart trainers are enhanced by a highly intelligent mind. The position of all rotating parts is specified and controlled a thousand times per second, so the electronics are always in control of the feeling in the rider’s legs. "
Why have a race mode? Why not just have it always be this responsive?
Turning it on and it’s always on… where it matters. (SIM mode)
Had to have a toggle for TH-cam explainers 😂
@@NathanLipkeEvilN8 🤣
As a software developer: because you're worried the new feature might break and you want to have an easy workaround 🤣
So if zwift report power at 1hz and the in game avatar at 10 hz wins the race then who actually wins on zwift power?
That's a very good question.
In e Sports people have 120 Hz displays (some even more) and at much higher FPS than zwift will ever have. So a 10-fold increase is not a competitive edge, it is a must.
What is the firmware version? I can't go any further than 5.0.14
That'll do it. You'll also need the updated Wahoo App.
Is race mode all firmware or hardware?
Firmware as long as you have the Kickr 6 hardware.
With Wahoo's financial problems I can't see race coming to old trainers. If you want race mode badly enough, you'll upgrade.
How were you getting 40XP per kilometer?
I’m on the fast-track after they released Level 60 and dropped everyone back to 500,000XP (or whatever it was)
@@gplama Ahh yes
Is there any difference with wifi versus Ethernet cable?
Not at 100ms / 10Hz.
@@gplama Thank you
Do we have a way to activate race mode via LAN connection on kicker v5?
This sounds great but if my Kickr stops responding on WiFi, it more than negates any benefit.
I still have unreliable connection quality with my Kickr 6 on WiFi. I will get periodic dropouts of my Kickr for no known reason while I am still able to stream Zwift to my TV from my laptop connected to WiFi. Location and bandwidth are not an issue. I have been keeping it on Ant+ where I have no issues.
My Kickr 6 is rock solid on Wifi, not even one drop out since I bought it in September last year and about 4000km with heaps of racing. It will be your wifi network - upgrade to mesh or go direct connect.
@@occyman I'm already on a WiFi 6 mesh network. Direct connect defeats the purpose of getting the Kickr 6 over the Kickr 5. I guess I need to contact Wahoo.
@@richardgarrett3188 yes I would contact Wahoo as I know several on Kickr6 wifi and no issues with any of them.
this steer looks so dumb...They need to come up a way to steer with the bike, not fingers...
I don’t believe it makes any much difference.
The demonstrations and data show it does.
Steering is overrated. It sounds like fun but when you get a bit of kit that steers it’s pretty ordinary.
I can't believe WiFi wouldn't be just as responsive. Wahoo trying to sell overpriced cables no doubt.
Wifi is. That’s what I was testing with. ‘Direct Connect’ refers to the protocol with be WiFi or Ethernet.
@@gplama I guess the point I was making, albeit badly, was that most people won't have a v6 so will have to buy the over priced cable if on v5 and want to benefit from this feature. Saying all this, Bluetooth is ample fast enough to cope with the data requirements of race mode anyway but it would be programmed as such but that's a whole new discussion.
Ok, so now my Tacx Neo is obsolete..🫤
Finally! 🤣
Still need "road feel" :)
@@whaleshark2625 you mean the calf massager? 🤣