Btw if y'all wanna ask me spoilery questions in the comments, feel free and I'll answer em! Just try to do the common courtesy of marking spoilery comments as such and spamming ENTER a bunch so that innocent passerbys don't get spoiled. I guess you can also just reply to this comment lol.
I played the first Phoenix Wright game back in June because I needed a game I could easily play with a broken wrist. On the metric of how good it is to play with a broken wrist: 10/10.
That writer rant resonated with me so much you have no idea, I can't stand how much the AA fandom is fixated on comparing Takumi and Yamazaki, like at the end of the day I really don't think it should matter who wrote what game as long as they're good
If you want to recommend Great Ace Attorney only to those who played the Trilogy so that they can get all the references, then I would argue you should play Ghost Trick as well before the Great Ace Attorney games, since there is a Ghost Trick reference in there.
God thank you so much for defending apollo justice. I love the game a whole lot and it was what made ace attorney go from a passing interest into one of my favourite series of all time. Also I gotta disagree with you on both great ace attorney chronicles being so low. Those games are both so peak!! (I understand why you ranked it how you did though) Can’t speak on investigations 1&2 though since I haven’t played them yet though
I think DGS1 case 5 is low-key a top 10 case in the series when you look at it from a metafiction lense. It's the peak of all the themes introduced in the game. I mean tbf I get why people dislike it, but like, that case makes you embody ryonosuke in a way that none of the other games in the series do. I wish I'd gotten to play it on original hardware.
Yes yes yes! I love Ace Attorney and so glad people are discovering those games thanks to remasters. 1st trilogy has such cool characters and stories. And Investigations 1 was impressive to me since it was probably the first "unraveling conspiracy" plot I've experienced in media, and to this day it's among the best in that regard. I've played those games on mobile, so not everything was available atm. I definitely should come back to it and experience other entries.
I enjoyed most of these games (haven't played Chronicles yet) but for me JFA and Prosecutor's Gambit have to be my top two. As these were the only games that made me tear up, they really got me with Farewell, My Turnabout and The Inherited Turnabout. Those memories I won't forget for a while, hopefully someday I'd be able to re-live my Investigations experiences on a spanish localization. Capcom shouldn't forget about us spanish Ace Attorney enjoyers.
i actually don't mind investigations 2's first case not being a standard tutorial case. so much of what makes I2 work is what was set up in I1. the devs know you're well-versed with how these games work, so they cut the BS and throw you onto a new case that is directly tied to the events and lore of the first game. the fact that you're playing a sequel to an already obscure spin off is kind of proof enough that they don't need to hand you a heavy tutorial. tbh my biggest criticism with I2-1 is that the Mind Chess introduction isn't really that great lol
I'd say for Great Ace Attorney, yes I don't think playing the original trilogy is required, but to avoid a major loss of apparent quality loss, I'd still save it for later.
I respectfully disagree with your placement of TGAA2. If anything, The Great Ace Attorney games are the only games that used the 3D to its maximum potential. Like there are some shots and camera work that look genuinely beautiful. I also disagree that the multiple witnesess and the jury complicate the formula. In my opinion that's actually the natural evolution of the formula that the series needed without really changing a lot. But in general, yeah I agree with you. I don't think Ace Attorney had any bad games, just ones that aren't as good as other but I like all of them. However, Ghost Trick in C tier is criminal
Good point about Turnabout Storyteller, they really trashed too much on Athena. It's jarring because most of it comes from Blackquill, who (I guess this would be SPOILER....), while I understand that he's an edgy boy, buddy, you already lost a trial to Athena, you don't have room to brag so much. Even Franziska and Godot were more graceful losers, and they had reasons to hate Phoenix, unlile Blackquill who presumably likes Athena.
@@TheCartoonBaffoon Still, even within the games, there can be a wide range of quality between cases (looking at you, JFA) and it would be interesting to see each of them ranked individually.
@@TheCartoonBaffoon ok, but I do recommend that you make a pinned comment so people know that they're allowed to ask spoiler questions. Also, SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT SO NO SCROLLING DOWN IF YOU DON'T WANT GET SPOILED (This is me adressing 3rd parties who are reading this conversation). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . So 1 thing that really made me struck out was when you said that you dislike Turnabout Trigger for being long. I'm sorry, but what? TT is not the longest tutorial case in the francise. It is the most complex tutorial case, but not the longest. The longest tutorial case is The Adventure of the Great Departure. I watched a couple of blind playtroughs of both TT and TAotGD and where most people where able to finish TT in about 2 hours and 30 minutes with some of them finishing in 2 and 45 minutes, with TAotGD it took players in between 4 and 5 hours to finish it. With TT once, you're done watching the intro cutscene of TT you get into the gameplay right away where as with TAotGD you have to read 20 minutes of textboxes before you get into the gameplay. Now I understand why there are so many textboxes as The Great Ace Attorney takes place in a completely different setting and time period with a whole cast of characters who all die before the events of the main line games begin and so it's prudent to give people the nessery context before they can encage with the gameplay. However, there is still a lot of unnessary fat that should have been trimmed out. I mean for starters, why are we not allowed to cross-exam Hosonaga even though he's the 1st witness? Like, why should every 1st testimony in every need to have a contradiction in it. Given the fact that during trial sections of The Great Ace Attorney 1 you almost always press every single statement in a testimony before you get a contradiction to pop up, would it not have been more prudent to teach the player the power of pressing before the power of presenting. And then there are also way too many instances of 1 our heroes going "are we doomed, I mean how are we going to break the prosecuter's case now", before Ryu go's "actually, I just noticed something, TAKE THAT Auchi". I'm talking about the burnmark and the poison research. And there are the worse offenders with Brett breaking the bottle and Hosonaga not presenting both steaks. Going back to TT, yes the case is long, but it's also super complex. Not in terms of gameplay, but in terms of mystery. In terms of gameplay, you start off investigating the level by collecting evidence and walking up the the relevant points of intrests and clicking investigate. You then do some Mind Chess, some Logic and some Eurica-ing and it climaxes with cross-examenning 2 characters. The 2nd half switches up the order of some of the gameplay elements but still climaxes with 2 characters getting cross-examened. The 1st half focuses more on investigating the crime and 2nd half is more focused on debating your way to the truth, however the stakes in the 2nd half are higher due there now being a chance of an innocent person getting wrongfully arrested. And then in terms of mystery it's complex, because the game not only doesn't show you who the killer is up front and instead makes it really difficult to predict ontill it's formaly revealed to the player, but there is also a twist in regards to the identity of the victim, the murder weapon and the location where they died. Not just that, but Knight is the most competent tutorial bad guy in the francise. The only stupid thing he did was him ranting about how much he hated Rook, but other than that he never makes a slip of the tongue, makes very strong counters and every time he get's caught of guard he's able to pick himself up again really fast. Knight only got caught, because of stuff that he couldn't have predicted like Shelly and not because he did something stupid. He kind had to bluff by swapping the guns in the heat of the moment and he almost got away with it.
SPOILERS Yeah I see where you’re coming from! I suppose my problem is better described by pacing rather than literal time spent. This is probably a byproduct of Investigations having….. well, investigation segments in its tutorial, but on top of that having you go through mind chess which on first pass was pretty unintuitive. I more readily compare it the first case of Investigations 1, Turnabout Visitor, which manages to keep up the snappy pace and intrigue despite the focus on the slower investigating. Complexity isn’t really what I’m looking for in a first case, especially when TT has several theoretically natural stopping points but it suddenly just… keeps going (I honestly thought it was gonna end after Shelly’s argument and when I saw the president show up towards the end I remember thinking “There’s fuckin more????”). It honestly reminds me of Turnabout Ablaze in that way and that’s NOT a good thing. Ftr I still love how TT connects to other cases in the game and I don’t even really think it’s BAD overall, I put it in like B-Tier, it’s just bad as a first case. I think I don’t feel like TAotGD has these same issues because it’s introducing you to such a vastly different world for Ace Attorney that it kinda needs the time to acquaint you with everything. It’s also keeping the usual Ace Attorney trial pace which helps a lot. That said, I do echo some of your feelings on it, it’s not a very standout first case to me. I think across the board the pacing of the 3D games is just a touch slower and since I played DD and SoJ right before GAAC I think I might’ve just grown accustomed to that, but I do have the first cases from DD and SoJ as my second and third least favs right above TT.
Btw if y'all wanna ask me spoilery questions in the comments, feel free and I'll answer em! Just try to do the common courtesy of marking spoilery comments as such and spamming ENTER a bunch so that innocent passerbys don't get spoiled. I guess you can also just reply to this comment lol.
I played the first Phoenix Wright game back in June because I needed a game I could easily play with a broken wrist. On the metric of how good it is to play with a broken wrist: 10/10.
That writer rant resonated with me so much you have no idea, I can't stand how much the AA fandom is fixated on comparing Takumi and Yamazaki, like at the end of the day I really don't think it should matter who wrote what game as long as they're good
this is reminding me i have to finish the great ace attorny collection aaaa
YES DO IT
If you want to recommend Great Ace Attorney only to those who played the Trilogy so that they can get all the references, then I would argue you should play Ghost Trick as well before the Great Ace Attorney games, since there is a Ghost Trick reference in there.
God thank you so much for defending apollo justice. I love the game a whole lot and it was what made ace attorney go from a passing interest into one of my favourite series of all time.
Also I gotta disagree with you on both great ace attorney chronicles being so low. Those games are both so peak!! (I understand why you ranked it how you did though)
Can’t speak on investigations 1&2 though since I haven’t played them yet though
I think DGS1 case 5 is low-key a top 10 case in the series when you look at it from a metafiction lense. It's the peak of all the themes introduced in the game. I mean tbf I get why people dislike it, but like, that case makes you embody ryonosuke in a way that none of the other games in the series do. I wish I'd gotten to play it on original hardware.
Yes yes yes! I love Ace Attorney and so glad people are discovering those games thanks to remasters. 1st trilogy has such cool characters and stories. And Investigations 1 was impressive to me since it was probably the first "unraveling conspiracy" plot I've experienced in media, and to this day it's among the best in that regard.
I've played those games on mobile, so not everything was available atm. I definitely should come back to it and experience other entries.
I enjoyed most of these games (haven't played Chronicles yet) but for me JFA and Prosecutor's Gambit have to be my top two. As these were the only games that made me tear up, they really got me with Farewell, My Turnabout and The Inherited Turnabout. Those memories I won't forget for a while, hopefully someday I'd be able to re-live my Investigations experiences on a spanish localization. Capcom shouldn't forget about us spanish Ace Attorney enjoyers.
I hope you enjoy chronicles!
This is Awesome! I love it!
I only played 1 and 2 and stopped because big top was so terrible, but listening anyway because this channel is super underrated :)
You went from an insult to a case I like to a really nice compliment and my brain can’t handle it lmao, thx I think?
i actually don't mind investigations 2's first case not being a standard tutorial case. so much of what makes I2 work is what was set up in I1. the devs know you're well-versed with how these games work, so they cut the BS and throw you onto a new case that is directly tied to the events and lore of the first game. the fact that you're playing a sequel to an already obscure spin off is kind of proof enough that they don't need to hand you a heavy tutorial.
tbh my biggest criticism with I2-1 is that the Mind Chess introduction isn't really that great lol
I love this. Thank you!
Crazy ass ranking. I respect it, but diabolical ranking.
I'd say for Great Ace Attorney, yes I don't think playing the original trilogy is required, but to avoid a major loss of apparent quality loss, I'd still save it for later.
Dual destinies > life
I’m afraid to ask but… what is lofe?
@@TheCartoonBaffoon auto correct 😭 I’m sorry
I respectfully disagree with your placement of TGAA2. If anything, The Great Ace Attorney games are the only games that used the 3D to its maximum potential. Like there are some shots and camera work that look genuinely beautiful.
I also disagree that the multiple witnesess and the jury complicate the formula. In my opinion that's actually the natural evolution of the formula that the series needed without really changing a lot.
But in general, yeah I agree with you. I don't think Ace Attorney had any bad games, just ones that aren't as good as other but I like all of them. However, Ghost Trick in C tier is criminal
Good point about Turnabout Storyteller, they really trashed too much on Athena. It's jarring because most of it comes from Blackquill, who (I guess this would be SPOILER....), while I understand that he's an edgy boy, buddy, you already lost a trial to Athena, you don't have room to brag so much. Even Franziska and Godot were more graceful losers, and they had reasons to hate Phoenix, unlile Blackquill who presumably likes Athena.
You should do an individual case ranking.
I think the tier list I showed at the end should suffice 😅
@@TheCartoonBaffoon Still, even within the games, there can be a wide range of quality between cases (looking at you, JFA) and it would be interesting to see each of them ranked individually.
So, when will you make a sequel to this video, discussing spoilers?
If y’all want spoiler talk you could always just ask me spoiler questions in the comments and I’ll respond!
@@TheCartoonBaffoon ok, but I do recommend that you make a pinned comment so people know that they're allowed to ask spoiler questions. Also, SPOILERS FROM HERE ON OUT SO NO SCROLLING DOWN IF YOU DON'T WANT GET SPOILED (This is me adressing 3rd parties who are reading this conversation).
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So 1 thing that really made me struck out was when you said that you dislike Turnabout Trigger for being long. I'm sorry, but what? TT is not the longest tutorial case in the francise. It is the most complex tutorial case, but not the longest. The longest tutorial case is The Adventure of the Great Departure. I watched a couple of blind playtroughs of both TT and TAotGD and where most people where able to finish TT in about 2 hours and 30 minutes with some of them finishing in 2 and 45 minutes, with TAotGD it took players in between 4 and 5 hours to finish it.
With TT once, you're done watching the intro cutscene of TT you get into the gameplay right away where as with TAotGD you have to read 20 minutes of textboxes before you get into the gameplay. Now I understand why there are so many textboxes as The Great Ace Attorney takes place in a completely different setting and time period with a whole cast of characters who all die before the events of the main line games begin and so it's prudent to give people the nessery context before they can encage with the gameplay. However, there is still a lot of unnessary fat that should have been trimmed out. I mean for starters, why are we not allowed to cross-exam Hosonaga even though he's the 1st witness? Like, why should every 1st testimony in every need to have a contradiction in it. Given the fact that during trial sections of The Great Ace Attorney 1 you almost always press every single statement in a testimony before you get a contradiction to pop up, would it not have been more prudent to teach the player the power of pressing before the power of presenting. And then there are also way too many instances of 1 our heroes going "are we doomed, I mean how are we going to break the prosecuter's case now", before Ryu go's "actually, I just noticed something, TAKE THAT Auchi". I'm talking about the burnmark and the poison research. And there are the worse offenders with Brett breaking the bottle and Hosonaga not presenting both steaks.
Going back to TT, yes the case is long, but it's also super complex. Not in terms of gameplay, but in terms of mystery. In terms of gameplay, you start off investigating the level by collecting evidence and walking up the the relevant points of intrests and clicking investigate. You then do some Mind Chess, some Logic and some Eurica-ing and it climaxes with cross-examenning 2 characters. The 2nd half switches up the order of some of the gameplay elements but still climaxes with 2 characters getting cross-examened. The 1st half focuses more on investigating the crime and 2nd half is more focused on debating your way to the truth, however the stakes in the 2nd half are higher due there now being a chance of an innocent person getting wrongfully arrested.
And then in terms of mystery it's complex, because the game not only doesn't show you who the killer is up front and instead makes it really difficult to predict ontill it's formaly revealed to the player, but there is also a twist in regards to the identity of the victim, the murder weapon and the location where they died. Not just that, but Knight is the most competent tutorial bad guy in the francise. The only stupid thing he did was him ranting about how much he hated Rook, but other than that he never makes a slip of the tongue, makes very strong counters and every time he get's caught of guard he's able to pick himself up again really fast. Knight only got caught, because of stuff that he couldn't have predicted like Shelly and not because he did something stupid. He kind had to bluff by swapping the guns in the heat of the moment and he almost got away with it.
SPOILERS
Yeah I see where you’re coming from! I suppose my problem is better described by pacing rather than literal time spent. This is probably a byproduct of Investigations having….. well, investigation segments in its tutorial, but on top of that having you go through mind chess which on first pass was pretty unintuitive. I more readily compare it the first case of Investigations 1, Turnabout Visitor, which manages to keep up the snappy pace and intrigue despite the focus on the slower investigating. Complexity isn’t really what I’m looking for in a first case, especially when TT has several theoretically natural stopping points but it suddenly just… keeps going (I honestly thought it was gonna end after Shelly’s argument and when I saw the president show up towards the end I remember thinking “There’s fuckin more????”). It honestly reminds me of Turnabout Ablaze in that way and that’s NOT a good thing. Ftr I still love how TT connects to other cases in the game and I don’t even really think it’s BAD overall, I put it in like B-Tier, it’s just bad as a first case.
I think I don’t feel like TAotGD has these same issues because it’s introducing you to such a vastly different world for Ace Attorney that it kinda needs the time to acquaint you with everything. It’s also keeping the usual Ace Attorney trial pace which helps a lot. That said, I do echo some of your feelings on it, it’s not a very standout first case to me. I think across the board the pacing of the 3D games is just a touch slower and since I played DD and SoJ right before GAAC I think I might’ve just grown accustomed to that, but I do have the first cases from DD and SoJ as my second and third least favs right above TT.