As a poly romantic individual, I can assure you that the partner who is seeing the housemate against op's wishes is, in fact, cheating on them. Without the explicit permission from your partner and getting approval from them about who the other person is and the nature of the relationship, it becomes a nonconsensual relationship and is no longer poly and is now simply plain old cheating. You usually need permission at every step, and they shouldn't be taking them on trips either.
For sure. Im also poly and when op said they thought the housemate wasn't poly, i fully would bet she isn't. There is no consideration for op here. That is fully just cheating.
Fun fact: the mixing of idioms (such as "give an inch, take a biscuit") is called a malaphor. My favorite example is "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it"
Jesus Christ that first story made me so angry. The audacity of that family to get mad at OP for "Ruining the mood" when they went out of their way to show her that they seemingly don't give two shits about her and her feelings. I bet they'll soon wonder why she never visits them.
It literally *SCREAMS* that this is a repeated pattern of behavior 😿 for the OP to literally respond that they have had to mask their own feelings over the years because otherwise they'd be the target of gaslighting...poor dear!!!
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar at this point it's so ingrained into their relationship dynamic with OP that they'll likely NEVER change...I can only hope OP can cut ties with them enough that their bullying tactics no longer have as much of an effect on her, and also hope that she cultivates a *found-family* that gives her the love and support she deserves
For the first story, that family is doing joke gifts all wrong!! You give the person a "bad gift" and let them try to awkwardly hide their disappointment and saying thanks when they don't mean it (you let this happen for like a few seconds only) and then you say "no, open it!" and inside is a gift they wanted. I did this with my mom. She was very vocal about hating a certain movie, then a few months later I gave her a dvd of that movie. She looked so confused and disappointed but trying to hide it, but when I told her to open it, there was a movie inside that she actually wanted. She thought it was hilarious! The joke isn't funny if the reveal is the crappy thing, wtf.
YES!!!!!!! THANK YOU! I personally am not the biggest fan of joke gifts where the joke is “haha you thought you were getting something you liked, but it turned out to be garbage”, because that just feels pointless and mean. If someone wants to do a joke gift, it should be “haha you thought I would get you something bad, but I would never do that to you, so here’s your actual gift”. It should be a positive subversion of expectations, not a negative one.
As someone with Autism this joke is my worst nightmare. Usually when I open gifts while I’m extremely grateful for the time, money and thought that’s been put into any gift I get - people even close family, tend to just get me generic stuff like body wash, shampoo, soaps etc. I KNOW I’m terrible to buy for because my only real interest is animals (dogs, horses) and so I don’t like getting things for myself but love new stuff for my animals ie. a cute collar, treats, any gear toys etc. My family and friends don’t feel right buying my animals stuff for ‘my’ special occasion, even though that is what I would much prefer and enjoy more than a gift for me. Especially because gear wears out, doesn’t fit anymore or need updating and it’s where most of my money goes so buying things like that would actually help out more than a generic gift I may not even use. A few of my hobbies/interests are very obscure or ‘more childish’ for example I was very into Star Trek and wanted all the ship Lego sets but once I was over 10, my parents thought that was too childish. I also LOVE stuffed animals and collect certain brands/series so I’d request those but wouldn’t get them because a 16yr old shouldn’t still want stuffed animals for bday’s and Xmas. When I was younger I never got anything on my ‘wish list’ but my siblings got a lot/all of the things of there’s because my items weren’t necessarily ‘age appropriate’ - like wanting legos that were ‘too complicated’ for my age, soft toys, sensory type items or books (I was very ahead in my reading so I’d request novels (age appropriate content but long thick books) which more distant family members felt were ‘boring’ to buy as a present or too difficult for my age to actually read/understand. Even when I get a gift I really love with all my heart my face usually is completely blank and I look indifferent about it (usually because I’m so overwhelmed with happiness, gratitude that I don’t know what to say or act) so I can get something I really love and it may not look like I love it but it’ll be something I can’t put down, want to try or use straight away, or something I’ll treasure. But because of this I learnt very early on that you HAVE to have a reaction and a good reaction when you open presents. I actually hate receiving presents and it gives me terrible anxiety around the holidays even though I’ve been declared the ‘best gift giver’ and I love giving people presents and spending hours or weeks finding the perfect things to give to everyone - I think because I can see how much joy someone can get from a truly good gift that’s very personalised to them. Of course I never want to offend someone when they’ve done the wonderful thing of spending their time and money on something for me but my entire family have given up on trying to buy me gifts without consulting me first. Nowadays I give everyone a list weeks in advance of any holiday/gift times with big and little expense items from a range of different categories with links to everything and they know I completely will love a simple note on a card with a ‘token’ where they’ll pay for me to order a certain item I want so I can go in store or online myself and order it and open it later away from the whole parade of people. And I call them once I’ve ordered/gotten it and take photos of whatever it is in use and say my thankyous over phone or text. It’s so much less stressful and I can know the exact brand, model or thing that’s in the mail or in the store so I know exact what to expect and how to react in advance 😅 Plus it limits the amount of random junk that end up stuck in a box. I always ask for charging cables and my favourite brand of cheap noise cancelling headphones (to the point where my family jokes they have to toss a coin for the ‘easy gifts’ or they’d fight over who got me those same things last year! 😂 Anyway, my mum and dad both played this joke on my sister and I one year, we needed an iPad for school and my parents told us we’d have to wait till Xmas/birthdays and get one to share. They addressed a present to the both of us and found a friends who had an iPad box and wrapped it up with a book inside (no iPad) then gave us the gift, my sister started crying when she saw the box so overwhelmed that they’d actually gotten it for us (my parents were very strict no technology people so we figured an iPad was a pipe dream to say the least). I let her open the box because she was obviously more invested in it than me (she as a NT wanted to fit in with friends, I wanted it so I could take pictures of my pets with a good camera and play my favourite horse game I was obsessed with to the point of sneaking the family laptop into my room at night). When my sister saw it was a book instead (a maths homework one, not something good) she was rightly furious and disappointed (there was no iPad and the maths homework book was a borrow from the library). I felt hurt that they had lied and disappointed about the lack of iPad but tried to please my parents by dutifully opening up the book and commenting on how ‘I guess it’s good to refresh my maths skills before school started” - in truth I think that’s when my parents finally gave up on the whole “let’s get something age appropriate that we ‘think you should’ve enjoy instead of something I actually wanted and requested probably because I reacted how I would to that maths book how I did to all the presents they’d ever gotten me and not like a heartbroken kid not getting an iPad 🤷♀️ My parents being it up every Xmas to laugh about it but my sister and I still don’t find it remotely funny and are still very hurt over it. I totally get that some people and especially families have a joke gift tradition and in truth my sister and I have our own version of that but any type of joke present situation terrifies me - they tried to do something at work and I just couldn’t even participate because work grifts seem to revolve around alcohol or chocolate (both things I don’t like nor eat) so I’m definitely the WORST person to do any type of secret Santa thing with because I’d way prefer someone just ask me what I want and give it to me in private or get me nothing at all than be scrutinised by a huge group of coworkers and trying to seem really pleased with a generic gift while you’re not sure who you’re supposed to look pleased about it to 😰 I don’t want surprises. Just ask me what I want and tell me your price range and I’ll give you links and options. I don’t even care if I don’t get anything. I’ll get you something really perfect for you and that’ll be the absolute highlight of any special occasion - seeing your joy for something I’ve put time and thought into but that does not mean you need to get me something. In fact I’d prefer if you didn’t at all… I think because I’ve had to awkwardly sit through gifts I don’t actually like and pretend to like them means that I want everyone else to not go through that so I want to give the best, most personalised and handy gifts I can so that the people I treasure don’t have to experience that when they get a gift from me. Of course I’m autistic so probably can’t really tell if they like the gifts or are just acting but a lot of my family members have joked that they need to ‘up their gift game’ after I’ve given them gifts so I think that means they’re good haha
Poly Story: I'm poly-adjacent and okay with either poly or monogamous relationships. Run, OP, Run. You agreed to something and your boundaries were violated. Every single time there is a boundary, it gets violated. That's not ethical non-monogamy, that's cheating. Flat out. Cheating happens with poly. The only difference is when the cheating applies. It's after sex but before a relationship. The minute there is a relationship you didn't agree to, it was cheating. And unfortunately, when poly relationships break, they tend to break unfairly. So you are looking at this imploding and you splitting off. It's not fair, but that is what it is. Now. That said. For people who don't want kids and are poly, you have got to have a concrete plan for what to do with unplanned pregnancies. If you are not the parent of that offspring, you have no say. So make sure everybody is on the same page or you are going to have a huge problem. It's easy if everybody cannot reproduce together, but if your partner is having sex with another person and a baby happens, it's better to have a plan than to have an issue after the fact. I know this platform is a bit wide and a lot of people aren't exposed to poly relationships. So for new poly people, that piece of advice is the best I have.
So important about discussing what happens around kids! It can become such a mess if one person wants to have kids while their partner doesn't but another partner does probably a little easier in a vee structure, less do in a triad 😂
Thank you for saying this so clearly! I also commented but it was more of a garbled ramble. OP is not in a good situation and unfortunately is probably going to take the brunt of it
Poly here and agree - this situation is red flag city. I'm not seeing much respect for OP's boundaries OR consideration for OP's feelings in this relationship. It reeks of "I'm gonna use poly as an excuse to do whatever I want without consequences." I know people who have lived with multiple partners, but I get the impression that they put in a lot of effort to be really considerate and thoughtful to everyone involved. Living with your metamor (partner's other partner) is kind of high level poly and often something people have to really work up to. Falling into bed with your roommate without first talking to your partner about how they would feel potentially living with a metamor when you're new to this is a LOT to put on a partner in a poly relationship IMHO, even moreso in an open, non-poly situation. If my partner prioritized my feelings so little, I would be definitely be questioning that relationship.
One other note I'd like to add, is that just because you may have discussed something once in the past, doesn't mean that it's concrete - you MUST keep communication open and discuss things as you grow together in your relationship. So it doesn't matter that you discussed it before, you have to keep having the discussions and especially BEFORE you do anything, especially if this time it's different (new emotional connections). I had a very similar situation and I'd say to OP get out now - it will only get worse from here because your partner is no longer taking your feelings into consideration and it sounds like they're going to do whatever they want without considering, let alone consulting, you. HUGGS!
When I was a kid my sister wanted a cellphone for Christmas, so my parents got her a toy cellphone AND a real cellphone and made sure she opened the toy one first lol.
@bboops23 Yeah, my family is VERY practiced at joke gifts. Tho our most common one is to hide some gifts in other gifts like wrapping a computer in a sweater, so the computer is the surprise. Or one year, the majority of my gifts had a small plastic rabbit in them somewhere bc rabbits are my fav animals. But each gift was still its own thoughtful thing, just plus tiny plastic rabbit
@@ShortForMertchel my family likes to wrap gifts in layers of boxes and occasionally they put a clothing item over the last box to trick you, but the last box is always the big gift. So when you see a sweater over the last box you think of, they must have tricked me into thinking the big gift was in here. Good one guys.
The tattoo one kinda hit home for me, my fiancé and I got each others names in Arabic on our bodies (his was under his heart and it said both our names) I got his name in Arabic on the back of my neck. However in 2020 he passed away and I did find someone a year later, at first he didn’t mind it but then when we moved in he kept going on about it and that my fiancé was “ashes on a field” so why do I need to keep mine. This was also at a time where he was physically hurting me and I crumbled. I got a tattoo over the Arabic writing but I covered it with symbolic things for peace and love - in a way to me it’s saying he’s at peace now but I sure do regret letting that guy bully me into changing my tattoo. He recently became my ex after I found on top of the abuse he was unfaithful yet accusing me who’s disabled and can’t go far of cheating. 2024 has never looked so positive after such a hellish year in 2023
I hope you get his tattoo re done one day (if you want) big and bold and full of love and you find someone who loves you and understands you have love for more than 1 person
It's awful all that happened, it sounds like you've really been through some much bad stuff... I'm glad you have a positive mindset for the upcoming year, I hope you can see how strong that is and that you're proud of yourself! I think lots of people would be so down, which would be understandable, so the fact you have that positive outlook is great imo. Good luck to you 🍀
I’m so sorry for you loss and for the horrible time you had last year. Try to remember that he is always there, even if it is underneath another tattoo, his name is still in your skin, a part of you. Good luck this year!
Story 3: Op is not the drama but the relationship is over. I think the partner is in love with his "friend with benefits" and they will get together eventually. I feel sad for OP but if the partner loves his friend, there is nothing that can be done about it, and it might be better for everyone if they just ended their relationship
Definitely. You cannot be in a relationship were the other person doesn't want to hear how your feeling about this situation and for the so called partner to say we've discussed it when he may have said all they want and it's done means he doesn't care enough about his partner to be honest with himself and OP.
That story really hit home for me too. I was in OP's position about 20 years ago, where I wanted to respect my same-sex partner's ethical non-monogamy standpoint. All her other sexual partners were with men i.e. not same-sex. She would also talk about having kids, particularly with the man who ended up being a romantic relationship. I did my best to respect her views, but it did make me realise that sex for me is an emotional connection, and that I am not suited to poly relationships. It's heart-breaking, but when the *one* person you love is clearly (falling) in love with someone else, it can be better to let go. I do wonder whether OP's partner was taking advantage of OP's disability to just do what he wanted e.g. You can't satisfy me because disabled, so I *need* to go elsewhere. What about OP's needs, especially emotional needs? It can be extra-demoralising to be a disabled person in a relationship with a non-disabled person, as we're so often devalued as potential partners. We are extra-vulnerable to end up in abusive relationships, because we can easily be isolated and made to feel like a burden. We are desirable and are not a burden, we deserve love and respect. xox
@coleenocasturme I hope many people will read your comment, you express it beautifully. I really hope OP will realize that he is worth being loved the way he wants it to be (monogamous) and will find a relationship more suitable for him. Because in this situation, I don't think anyone is actually happy. OP is obviously suffering from the situation but his partner must be too if he is trying to bottle it up. And the friend must also be unhappy since she has to stay sex friends with a man she clearly love and want to be in a relationship with. Everyone is miserable in this situation and everyone would beneficiate from a breakup
It's sad because OP lives with both of them. He either has to see the two of them in a relationship or move out at a time when he needs stability. I feel really bad for him.
I think we have seen so many cults hiding behind god and polyamory to do horrible things to women and children, that we just see polyamory=non consensual, power driven, gross and unethical relationship between one man, and many women.. Personally i wouldnt mind being in a polyamorus relationship, as i am a female Bi/Pan asexual, in a relationship with a straight guy with a big sexdrive.. I love him to bits, but his need and my need dosent match, we have se tase in girls, and i wouldnt really mind having a girlfriend. We have talked about this for HOURS on end, because its not something you should just do. I have insecurities, i know that, and its something we would have to take slow and work through, but we are already doing that regardless of finding a 3rd partner or not. We have made some very clear agreements, with clear boundaries, and agreements, and we do check in now and then to make sure everything is clear. We can always take back our concent. But so far none of us have needed to go out and "seek" anything, so thats just fine. Its just nice to know how good our communication became and is from going through this kind of conversation :) Polyamory is not a bad thing, but as eveything is, can, and are being misused by gross, selfcentered people who dosent care about their partners but only their status in their community..
@@tammysantana7200I think OP knows that, but is suggesting that a lot of people conflate the two because their only exposure to non monogamous relationships is the concept of polygamy
I asked for a new computer for christmas, and my family put the computer in a giant box of toilet paper before wrapping it up. I also had all the family gifts in my pile so it wouldn't be as empty (since my siblings got a lot more but less expensive gifts). When it was finally time to open my one real gift, I unwrapped the box, noticed that it was the same box that toilet paper came in (but didn't think much of it since reusing boxes isn't uncommon in my family), opened it to find... toilet paper. Underneath the toilet paper was my computer, and me and my family all thought it was hilarious. Like you guys said, it's not funny unless everyone's laughing.
Defining bullying. Pranking is supposed to be funny, but there is nothing funny about hurting someone’s feeling and humiliating them. I’m glad OP ended up having a good holiday period with her boyfriend and his family, and that she got the book she wanted.
fun fact: "give an inch, take a biscuit" would be considered a malaphor! or a mixing of phrases or idioms. they are so fun! this includes sayings like "we'll burn that bridge when we get to it," or "you've opened your can of worms, now lie in it." these make some sense, but some are completely nonsensical, such as "even a left is right twice a day" (a mixture of "two wrongs don't make a right" and "even a broken clock is right twice a day")
Love this as always! Note about polyamory and hierarchies: there are a lot of different forms and hierarchy types in polyamorous relationships, and having a hierarchal type with a “primary” partner and other partners being secondary is only one type (though it does sound like that’s at least what Mer thought was happening at first). But there are also non-hierarchical types where all partners are equal (so any partner would be potentially be able to get in new relationships or manage other relationships without having to run stuff by their first partner; of course they do need to still be open and communicative about normal relationship stuff, but when it comes to other partners it’s like they’re single because they’re fully autonomous. This sounds like what Mer’s partner thought was going on). There’s also kitchen table poly, where everyone comes together on equal footing and makes all decisions together (and all members of the polycule often all date each other and frequently live together in this kind of relationship, thus the “kitchen table” being their home base hehe). That sounds like maybe what the partner and “sister” roommate wanted to transition to. And of course there can be lots of combos thereof! You can have one person in the polycule who has a primary partner and 1+ secondary partners, and those secondary partners can have non-hierarchical or kitchen table poly relationships with each other or with other people. It can be a whole lovely web. AND. You guys are incredibly correct that, in this particular situation, the boundaries and conversations are not being respected, so regardless of poly rules and hierarchies this relationship itself is problematic.
I think when Shaaba used the word "hierarchy" she wasn't meaning in the sense of that particular polyamorous structure, but more in the sense of "this relationship is the established one, so the boundaries and agreements that have already been made need to be respected when introducing new dynamics." So more precedent than hierarchy. To clarify, even if Mer and partner wanted to have a non-hierarchical poly relationship of whatever nature, since they are already in a committed relationship to one another, they would still need to both consent to that and agree on the dynamics it would involve before seeking out/involving other people, which I think is what Shaaba was trying to say. This is all good information, too, just wanting to add a bit of clarification of my own. ^^;
Y'know, I totally agree that the OP in the second story is lying about how she managed to see the texts, but re: the "no way would anyone find out by seeing open texts left brazenly on a table"--that is, in fact, exactly how my mom found out how many women my dad was cheating on her with LMAO, he just,,, left his texts open face-up on a SHARED!!!!! table literally directly next to her. Phones fall asleep yeah but sometimes people are so remarkably stupid (that said--does not seem like the vibe here at all lol). Edit: Also thank you Shaaba for spreading "the plastics are actually just a polycule" propaganda. This is so real.
Adding on to this: people can change how soon their phones fall asleep. I have mine set to not fall asleep for like a minute or more. Tho considering what we know, I think it'd have to be in a "don't go into sleep mode" setting, and that seems unrealistic in this situation to me.
Yes, as Jamie said, what was OP ungrateful for? There was literally no presents (&or behaviour around the gifts) to be grateful for! I feel so bad for that person, I hope they've been able to go low contact with the family
In a healthy poly relationship communication about boundaries is a constant thing. Checking in about boundaries and how everyone is feeling is always happening. In my experience it happens much more than in a monogamous relationship but that may just be because my experiences with monogamy were when I was a teenager and no one really knows how to have a solid relationship yet when you are that young. For context, I've been with my partner for 24 years. Originally there was a third person in the relationship but she decided polyamory wasn't her thing and chose to leave us (understandable and I hope she's well). There hasn't been any involvement with anyone else since then but neither of us are opposed to it. We both still identify as poly and would welcome other people in our relationship should we find someone and have the time to build a healthy relationship with them but that just hasn't occurred. Even though it's been decades since our relationship had another person in it we still often talk about our current feelings and boundaries on the matter. The fact that the couple who started out with ethical non-monogamy isn't having ongoing conversations about these things is a huge red flag. Saying "well, we talked about it once a few years ago" is not a healthy way to deal with ethical non-monogamy or polyamory. It's not a healthy thing in any relationship.
So I have constant conversations with my monogamous partner about boundaries, but I also know couples that don't. I also know poly couples who suck at communicating and really only communicate at couples' therapy. Communication is key in all relationships and while many poly people are great at it, many are not. My husband and I are the monogamous people in a friend group of mostly poly people. One friend who's poly has a contract with her husband because they want the basic terms laid out in writing. They update it at least once a year. Other friends don't communicate that they are poly upon getting into relationships then spring it on a new partner.
@@bboops23 I definitely believe that communication is key in any healthy relationship. Ongoing conversations about boundaries and all of that should be standard no matter what. I just haven't seen it in many of the monogamous relationships I was in or that I've witnessed around me. I'm glad that you have that. We are also the only poly people in most of our friend groups so I'm really only able to judge on what we have. I realize that gives me a biased view.
@@lindsayosterhoff2459 oddly I'm the opposite. I've met significantly more poly couples than monogamous. Most of my friends are poly and aside from two groups, the rest are a mess. One can't keep a stable relationship, another constantly lies that he's poly until after he starts dating his partners, another barely talks to each other and they are constantly on the verge of divorce, and another has said monogamy is a mistake meanwhile they have never been in a relationship and they are only into polyamory because they use it to get laid by the insecure partners they meet at cons. Every one of the monogamous people I've met aside from one is in a stable, healthy, communicative relationship, mind you this is like 4 couples. One person just got out of an abusive relationship and tried to communicate constantly. The sample size I have for poly couples is much larger and literally all but two are a mess. One person is likely going to marry one of his partners since the other is already married.
@@lindsayosterhoff2459ahaha, yes I've seen the same with my friend groups, plus my own experiences of monogamy vs polyamory felt like they were at complete opposite sides with it - all the monogamous relationships were always such a mess, then after exploring polyamory even if the partners didn't work out it was always on good terms & spoken about /remained friends. I think a large part of it isn't monogamy per se, more so toxic monogamy culture that has been continuously forced
Thats make sense a bisexual in a monagamus relationship is not gay ore lesbian based one the partners sex and a hetro- ore gay person is not asexuell if they are not currently sexual active.
First one reminds me of my ex and her family. Not the pranks but the "you're too sensitive" thing. It was a toxic marriage and I'm out now, but being made to apologize for being offended is the worst.
I’ve been waiting for episode two! Story one: NTD. The Christmas after I had my youngest baby (he was born Dec 11) I was hosting. My sister’s family came over. I’d shopped early for everyone’s presents, including my husband and kids, because I knew wouldn’t have time later given I was 9 mos pregnant. I sat there holding my newborn watching while everyone opened gifts expecting eventually someone to find one with my name and bring it over. The pile got smaller and smaller…nothing. I didn’t even get a candy cane in my stocking. I. Got. Nothing. Worse, no one noticed. I didn’t say anything at the time, because what is there to say? I didn’t want to bring the day down given I was hosting and just buried myself in making Christmas dinner. Everyone had forgotten me, including my mom, including both sisters, including my husband. I honestly have trauma from this, because it opened my eyes to how badly neglected I was in my relationship, and how I just wasn’t seen at all. Three years later I’m happily getting a divorce. And still, I honestly think all the ‘joke’ gifts and gaslighting afterwards would have been worse.
It is a trope and it’s so, so stupid. Cishet men: do better. @nergregga Thank you, he eventually did apologize, and still apologizes even this year when I’m sensitive because of a lot of PTSD from that time. He’s promised that as long as he’s alive I’ll never be forgotten at Christmas again. Sadly this was tip of the iceberg of much deeper problems, so we are amicably divorcing. This was definitely an inciting incident for that decision though. Some neglect in a relationship is just too deep to get over.
My birthday is Dec 1, my kid's is Dec 13. The year the baby was born most of my birthday and Christmas presents were for the baby. Like not even stuff for me to use as a new mom, but straight up toys/movies etc. for the baby. Made me feel like now I had a kid, I no longer mattered. 😢
The last story feels like outright gaslighting and bulldozing against OP, the trips and general attitude (let alone the "fantasy of having kids with her") is the furthest thing from a *friends-with-benefits* relationship, and has more to do with them shoving their ACTUAL relationship together down OP's throat until he either accepts it or bows out of the relationship altogether (which is where I'm leaning)...the BF needs to stop deflecting and be *honest* about where he sees his relationship with OP going, because the level of outright disrespect he's shown to him thus far is STAGGERING 😿
Completely agree and I'm surprised more comments haven't picked up on this, that story made me so so mad for OP. The "being loud in bed" when OP is right there especially.
@@crossbowss not sure if I'm reading too much into it since I'm not personally acquainted with any of them, but it also smacks of using OP's disability against him (BF is clearly weaponizing his own rampant sex drive as an excuse to get a "normal healthy" partner)...BF is now in a good ole CisHet relationship that he can flaunt publicly, and soon enough OP isn't going to fit into the space in any way, so by advice to OP would be to cut your losses and try to get a different living situation set up
@@crazycatchick4111 I really wish I could see the best in people involved like Shaaba and Jamie, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if ableism and transphobia played a part in this. Nothing about this situation makes me think this is polyamory, and I feel like thinking about it in this way complicates how pretty much everybody is talking about OP's situation (in a sense of not wanting to further discriminate against poly people). The way OP talks about it really seems like their relationship was over the moment BF got involved with the roommate. This is just pure speculation though. I really hope OP can get out of this situation safely.
@@crossbowss totally agree, my radar immediately went up when OP had to explain that his disability was the driving factor of their BF getting his freak on elsewhere, all while under the banner of being *poly* when in fact BF is most likely just a hot dog and OP didn't want to breakup, and every single action on BF's part afterwards was a direct slap to the face of OP and what he thought their relationship was, all during a truly turbulent time in his life (no doubt deliberately chosen on BF's part as a means to further destabilize OP into compliance)...I genuinely hope that OP can find somewhere else to live and in time a partner who loves and respects him the way he deserves
It's easy to say "have a conversation," but I don't think it's going to do any good in this case. It sounds like OP's boyfriend has more or less abandoned him for this new partner.
Here is something that I found odd with the tattoo story: Did the fiancé not know about the matching tattoos before this? Because if this was the first time hearing the meaning of his wrist tattoo - the first time she knew it was connected to his ex at all - I would totally get her reaction. That seems like information you should not withhold in a relationship. Like my partner has multiple tattoos and I know the general meaning of all of them and I also know that the one on his chest is also connected to his ex. I knew that from the beginning and could talk to him about it. I think that makes a diffference. Sure she can't tell him to remove it either way, but I do feel her emotions would be very understandable if that was the first she heard about it.
Yes, this is what I was thinking about the tattoo story. OP shouldn't be telling fiance to remove the tattoo - I suppose it's always within a person's right to -ask-, respectfully - "Hey, I feel a certain way about this, is it something you'd ever consider doing for me?" Like imo it's not any more unreasonable to ask a partner to remove a tattoo than it is to ask a partner to *get* a tattoo with/for you. But if the answer is no, the answer is no, full stop. At the same time though, if OP is just finding out about this deeper meaning to this tattoo now (regardless of whether she found it by snooping or not), I could see how that would lead to feelings of betrayal, and of wondering if there are other things he hasn't told her, too. In which case the tattoo is the symbol of the problem more than the problem itself still, but in a different way. At the same time, OP says they were friends when fiance was dating his ex. So it does strain credulity a slight bit to think that she wouldn't have known anything about the tattoo/its meaning at all prior to this point. Especially somewhere like a wrist where it would be visible at least part of the time. Overall, OP still YTA for the overblown insistence of the removal of the tattoo. But, as Shaaba and Jamie said, lots of talking needs to happen before getting married - maybe this is one of the things that they need to talk about.
My half-sister has become very environmentally aware in the past few years, so when we do Christmas at my dad’s, it’s often a case of reusing old bags and containers; I make origami cards and gift card holders to try and reduce the use of tape. Quite often, we’ll use whatever box has accumulated over the year as a way to make the gift “bigger” than it is. One year, I used my Switch carrying cases as something to “unwrap,” telling my siblings I wanted them back afterwards. 😂 If using a random box, we will all tease and joke that the person got that for Christmas until the box is opened to see the actual gift. I can’t imagine receiving “gift” after “gift” where you think you’re getting something but it was actually gifted to someone else. 12 separate times, and in the end, you didn’t get anything you were hoping for. And I don’t say that to mean someone is entitled to certain things at Christmas, but if you’re asked for a list and the family goes out of their way to gift those things to other people and mock you with the boxes and even a book cover? That’s just mean-spirited. Not the drama, OP, and I hope you don’t have to spend more time with them than necessary.
My family too reuses box’s and especially gift bags - they’re usually food boxes like juice, snacks or cleaning products not anything that’s ’expensive or gift like’ but I totally have crossed out someone’s name over an old gift bag and writing over the top the other person’s name and told them “only look at the top name” jokingly. We all find this standard and nobody blinks an eye at nappy boxes or beer boxes (they’re really the prefect ‘gift size’) so I wouldn’t even think twice about opening something like that and not finding beer, nappies or cleaning products. I saying that, one year my parents wrapped up an iPad box and gave it to me and my sister while making a whole big deal out of this ‘expensive, fragile’ gift. My sister had been asking for an iPad for at least 8 years at that point, was starting highschool who had recommended one and there’d been a huge serious discussion about one in the months up to Christmas to the point of me and her signing a contract that if we were to get an iPad that we’d maintain grades, stick to time limits etc. So I imagine my sister thought this was the year. She opened the box and saw the pristine ipad box (my parents even shrink wrapped it and put a book inside instead of an actual iPad). When she saw the box she started crying and was thanking my parents and hugging them, telling them how she was going to stick to the contract and ‘make them proud of her’ grades in school. Her hands were shaking so hard it took her like 10 mins to get the shrink wrap off but of course when she opened the box it was a maths textbook and not an iPad. She was so shocked and she just sat there sobbing when she realised my parents were laughing and joking that she’d ’really brought’ the joke and how funny it was. Neither her nor I found I funny at all and I spent the rest of Christmas trying to console her and eventually she ended up asking me to open all the rest of her presents because she “didn’t want to find another present that was a trick” she was around 13-14 at the time and I remember how shocked and horrified at my parents how they’d lied to her and sat there egging her on, saying things to make her think it was actually an iPad and then silently sitting while she struggled with the shrink wrap without thinking maybe the joke had gone too far. Literally every single Christmas they bring it up as a ‘funny joke’ and over 10 years later my sister and I still don’t find it funny at all, I remember for years afterwards I was petrified of thinking any of my gifts were actually what was in the box/what it looked like and I can’t imagine how it was for my sister who was the brunt of the joke. It’s only funny if everyone is laughing and there is such a thing as too far and this joke passed that mark eons ago!
@@katrinadaly1755 - Oh my gosh, your poor sister. That’s such a cruel thing to do to someone, getting their hopes up while they are crying from the excitement. It’s such a breach of trust; I don’t blame either of you for feeling betrayed and unable to feel safe believing the box anymore. If anyone in my family experienced that level of upset because of a box misunderstanding, I would have been falling over myself with apologies; it’s such a painful feeling to have your hopes crushed, never mind when they’ve been artificially heightened for a joke.
I'm not poly, but based on conversations I've had with poly people- sleeping with someone you live with without clearing it with the other partner first is a huge no go. And I completely agree that it's wrong that it sounds like he told their roommate they might be able to do a triad before he talked to the partner. It makes it far more uncomfortable for OP to say no.
When it comes to monogamy, as a trans man myself. I thought about letting my partner seek sexual pleasure from others as I was too dysphoric to provide it. He turned around and told me he loves only me and prefers to wait until I’m ready so it’ll be extra special. Especially when I’m fully transitioned. We agree that because we’re a young couple we can still experience emotionless flirting with others, but in terms of sexual activity, he dated me knowing my gender and preferences, hence why he respects me and doesn’t want to sleep with others.
Emotionally cheating isn't just planning to get together, it's having an intimate emotional connection behind your partner's back. A good indicator, is if you hide it from your partner, it's probably cheating. Also you shouldn't get in a new ship while still moving on or healing, bc that just hurts the next partner.
As someone who is demisexual, while I personally feel there’s absolutely no excuse for any type of cheating, it would hurt me 100 times more if my partner had an intimate emotional connection to someone else than if they had a sexual relationship with that person. I think because sexual attraction is so rare for me it’s something that is inherently hard for me to understand and feel, so I can understand how my experience with sexual attraction isn’t the norm so therefore less ‘relatable’ in a way where I would feel hurt. On the other hand, because any sort of strong emotional bond has to be present in a relationship for me, it’s something I highly value and treasure, so if someone was emotionally cheating with their thoughts, activities and time spent with someone else that would hurt me more than anything else because it’s the emotional connection that is the key to the relationship from my perspective. Like I could imagine being absolutely hurt and betrayed if my partner was going on dates and out for drinks with someone to get closer to someone or said that they had strong feelings for someone else in that way but if my partner had cheated on me sexually, I wouldn’t get mad seeing them kissing someone else or having sex with someone else because of their actions or jealousy in that way, I’d break up with them because I’d be hurt that emotionally they didn’t care enough about our relationship/my feelings to the point they had actually cheated (not because of the sexual activity itself) if that makes sense.
I am so happy with the changes you made compared to the first episode. It is really helpful for me to have the text on screen as you read it and I feel like there was way less digression while reading out the posts. I could follow really well and enjoyed the vibe of this episode a lot!
If the guy from story #2 is THAT invested in a tattoo that he got with a girl who: A-wouldn't marry him and B: CHEATED on him, is he really over her? Why is he engaged to someone else? He should not even want to be reminded of that girl.
Always feel that if joke gifts are decide to be played at least it should be the actual gift or something better. The best "joke gift" i ever recieved was unwrapping a box for a shoe rack in a gift exchange that turned out to be super cool multitool that i have had since
Tattoos cost a lot of money to remove, require many sessions, and the process is EXTREMELY painful. My aunt has been getting a tattoo removed for TWO YEARS due to an ink allergy (so it’s not like she’s dragging her feet) and isn’t completely done yet. An ultimatum where you insist they get a tattoo removed is in some ways (such as time investment, pain of recovery, etc.) a more extreme expectation than asking them to get an elective cosmetic surgery.
Honestly, like you said, maybe the barrage of joke gifts in the first post was a genuine mistake, a result of poor planning. However, the 3 points that make me think it's not only *not* OP causing drama and in fact just meanness on the part of the family is 1) none of the gifts were followed up by the actual gift - laptop stayed in that bag for the other person, book wasn't handed over to replace the dictionary, etc. So the gifts had *been given* in that same room, just not to her. 2) The family completely steamrolled and devalued OP's feelings and attempt to communicate. 3) They doubled-down on making her hurt out as trivial or unimportant, which isn't how you treat a loved one, not to even mention the emotional manipulation and name-calling over the course of several days. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that this is standard procedure for the family, given how convinced OP was after only a few days that she wasn't entitled to her feelings, being heard, or being treated with respect, or at least equal care at the rest of the family. I hope she is feeling secure in the knowledge that she deserves better from people in her life, and I'm glad her boyfriend and his family seems to be clearing that bar.
Storie 1 : I can relate to OP. A little too much. Oops. Storie 2 : I agree with you guys like 1000%. You hit the nail on that one. That woman is possessive & jealous. Red flags all over. That being said... I won't judge whoever did this because I don't really have stromg feelings about it, but I find it a bit of a gamble to get couples tattoos... You're taking a risk for it not to work in the long run & you having a physical reminder of that person forever. If you don't care & see it as "it's fine because either way, this person is part of my history.", then sure, but if you know within yourself that you will not be able to see it that way if it doesn't work out then maybe don't get that kind of tattoo. Of course, if you chose to have a couple tattoo, good for you, no judgment, I have a friendship tattoo with ny bffs from HS so I get you there, just make sure you will not regret it later. Storie 3 : I have a poly friend (my roommate) & I learned from her that for a triad to be functional & ethical, it has to be 3 three-way street. Aka, both partners fall for the 3rd one. Otherwise, if it's a couple adding on a 3rd person, what happens is that the 3rd person becomes the 3rd wheel as the original couple gets couple privilege, which sucks for the 3rd person. And what we've seen with Mer, if the partner adds another to the relationship unexpectedly, the original couple will deteriorate & the first partner will become the 3rd wheel. Aka, a triad is very hard to make work. It's not impossible, but there is a very specific way to make it ethical & what happened to Mer is not it at all. I can hear my friend cringe at this one...
I keep reading the podcast title as '1800s drama' and then being sorely disappointed that this isn't about some juicy historical drama nonsense even though I watched last ep and know that it's not at all that. Still very good though, keep up the lovely work of being wholesome and trying to help.
Last one: Boy run. You don't need this. Trigger warning: Gaslighting This happened to me. My SO had a very high drive as well and constantly talked about FWB and Poly. I said I think poly is beautiful but not for me since I know I have very low self esteem and didn't think I was strong enough mentally. I finally gave in after a year of this and low and behold one of our FWB they fell in love with practically instantly. I was happy at the time and liked the person and was included in thruple stuff from time to time but things really sucked when we moved in together after a year. They suddenly would both make jokes about me and make fun of the outfits I wore. In fights with my SO, I always hoped our new partner would help since I had felt the fights were scary and unfair, instead they sided with my SO even if my SO later admitted being wrong. I didn't realize at the time but as much as I wanted to preform in bed I basically had zero trust for our new partner and constantly had to leave and had to either blast music from the headphones or listen to them loudly without anywhere to go. This dynamic got worse over years and years. I broke up with our partner about 5 or 6 years in because they were horribly unpleasant and would never apologize or try while having the audacity to ask me to hug them more. Also my SO wanted to continue sleeping with other people and pushing boundaries around it and saying I never set those boundaries in the first place. 2 to 3 years later of just the partner being even worse, my SO gave me an ultimatum that I had to be better or we'd divorce. I had seen around 7 therapist and psychiatrist over the years to "fix" myself for the both of them - and both did nothing except for saying it was never enough. Finally my SO said I had improved so much and they could never leave me. 2 WEEKS LATER, their partner, my ex, said they couldn't live in the house with me and to choose. SO chose them. I am glad they did because I am so much better without them. My point being is they are not treating you right - they aren't making you feel safe and will continue to do so. You deserve so much more. If the new partner and them are okay with doing that in your home without absolutely making sure you feel as comfortable as possible and are in no way hurting from this experience - they do not care for you like they should and they are not worth an ounce of you. PS: They married in secret a year after the divorce was final. But They lost most of their friends so that's the icing that tastes so delicious haha
Last story: not the drama. Poor Mer - they are not respecting his boundaries, period. He gave them space to pursue a defined relationship, rather than saying a straight no, and his partner is pushing far past those. Some of this may be salvageable if the partners agree on their boundaries that were not previously defined (I doubt that they had previously had a boundary about sex in the house, because they had not previously considered housemates as sexual partners). Boundaries have to be continually reflected on and updated. The kids thing and a triad though - I agree that these things need to come from the primary couple outward, not backward into the primary couple (once you are a triad +, that dynamic should shift to equal respect). I don't think asking is the wrong play, but OP's partner has crossed their boundaries and agreements multiple times. In any situation where a partner wants kids and the other partner doesn't (whether that's someone changing their mind or misunderstanding), it can be very heartwrenching - sometimes there are compromises and sometimes it's an end point for relationships which are otherwise outstanding. And I think that's where this is for OP - he and his partner need to have frank talks about what they both want, and if OP doesn't want a triad, that's legit, but it doesn't sound like OP's partner is on the same page. My view is the partner wants to have his cake and eat it too - or doesn't want to hurt OP's feelings, but this continual disregard of established boundaries is hurtful. I would advise OP to walk now, because the partner does not seem capable of ENM, but that's a complicated decision OP has to think on.
I used to prank my sister for gifts but always with the real gift being better than the expectations I set up. Like one year I told her I got her a Nutcracker knowing she would not want a Nutcracker. I did get her a Nutcracker but it came with a gift she loved. She had a good laugh that the Nutcracker thing was true and loves and still has the gift.
Story 2: YTD. Different situation, I’ve been married for almost 18 years and am getting divorced. I asked for the divorce, I wasn’t cheated on or left. My ex and I have matching tattoos we call our “family tattoo” on our upper forearm. It’s his last name in braille, my last name in braille, and the names of all our kids and two blank spaces for miscarriages. I also have his initials tattooed on my ring finger, and he has a tattoo of his wedding ring. Even though things ended for really bad reasons, he is my family and we are committed to coparent together and remain friends. We intend to always be in each other’s lives. I wouldn’t be sad if he removed his, but I have no intention of removing mine. I hope to date again one day, and I would consider it a red flag if any future partner had a problem with my tattoos. Like Jamie said, my body art is like a journal of my life. Keeping those tattoos have nothing to do with my feelings, because any feelings besides familial love faded a long time ago. But they have everything to do with my journey to who I am at this moment. YTD.
Ooh, I've seen those guys. They say they are into "ethical non-monogamy" but just because they think that justifies whatever they want to do with no boundaries and it's the partner that's being a prude if they disagree. Mer needs to run and probably so does the suddenly-not-monogamous flatmate.
Really appreciate that you made it a point to speak about ethically non-monogamous relationships with openness and understanding! I'm in an open relationship and it's frustrating to get so many judgy remarks from others. Totally agree with your take on the last story. Even if Mer were fully on board with his partner and housemate's relationship, the partner would still be sh*tty for how they're going about it. Not including Mer in conversations that directly affect him, implementing rules up that hadn't been discussed, etc.
It's so funny because when you started talking about biscuits you summoned my cat, Biscuits (because he kneads/makes biscuits), and he left at the end of the video and then Jamie said "bye Biscuits" 😂
Literally, it just sounds like he's trying to not-so-subtly transition from being with Mer to being with the flatmate and is just labelling it as polyamory in order to get away with it, without even understanding what healthy polyamory entails. Couple this with the absolute lack of concern for how traumatic this must be for OP with all those specific acute stressors, and you got yourself another cis guy misusing polyamory for his own selfish gain and shirking responsibility for his actions to those around him.....
For the third story, more conversations need to be had and quickly before more tension gets between OP and his partner. The terms of the relationship are being breached, which isn’t healthy for OP to continue being in. The partner might not realize he’s breaking those boundaries, hence the need for new conversations, but he still needs to take responsibility for not upholding the terms.
I'm involved in a somewhat complicated Polyamorous family situation (5 people total over 3 countries and 2 continents). There's so much communication and talking out everyone's feelings and situations that it would be ridiculous to most monogamous people. The amount of stigma and judgement is why we don't come out to more than just close friends (no bio families as they're already stretched with accepting the 2 same sex marriages we had in 2022). We're always up for respectful discussion if anyone wants more information on our relationship dynamic
Since you have a lot of experience regarding communication in a relationship I would love to know, what’s your best advice for people in relationships where communication is not very good, how do you improve? Preferably both from a talking and listening perspective 😊
@@WalkedWithWolves I know you didn't ask me directly, but I have some advice, if you'd like/would find it helpful. My experience with communication and poly/relationships is not exactly the same as the commenter you asked but I've navigated my fair share of tricky situations in relationships, plus honestly over two decades of customer service experience helps with communication a lot. One thing that kind of underpins most good communication, especially listening: Realizing that everyone has different perspectives, expectations, and assumptions about things. This can be from very small things like someone using a word that has two meanings and they mean it one way but you take it another (for example: I asked someone once "What do you think about this activity?" because I wanted their opinion on it, and they interpreted as an invitation to do the activity, because they'd always been taught to ask "What would you think if we did xyz?"). It can also be much bigger things, like different values. For a (non-extreme) example: if someone is operating on an underlying assumption that everyone will always try to win at a game, they might not understand someone else who has a perspective that winning and losing doesn't matter but just playing fairly is the important thing. More extreme examples of value differences are things like religion, bigotry, political views, moral codes, and so on. I find that if I tackle most conversations from a "benefit of the doubt" perspective, i.e. assuming that the other person generally means well and is not trying to be rude, mean, make my day harder, hurt me, etc., it is much more productive. And as soon as things start to feel tense or like we're not on the same page, I try to take a step back and analyze what assumptions I might have been making that could have been wrong. It obviously takes a lot of practice and you're not always going to get that last part right, even with lots of practice, but the more you communicate with the same person, the easier it gets. Some tactics that support this underpinning strategy: *Repeat things back if you are the listener - try to paraphrase to help make sure you understood. If they say, no that's not it, ask them to repeat themselves in a different way, until eventually you both circle around to the same understanding of what is being said. *Conversely, if you're speaking, and someone asks for clarification or otherwise seems confused, try rephrasing in addition to repeating. *Ask questions. Be specific about what you did and didn't understand. "Okay, I heard that you want to make plans for dinner, but are you saying you want to talk about it now, or after you finish work in an hour?" *Take breaks if you need to. "I'm getting overwhelmed, can you give me a minute to process my feelings?" "I think I'm tired and would like to sleep and resume this conversation tomorrow, is that okay?" *In the case of fights/arguments, I find that the difference between a fight and a discussion is whether the focus is on blame or on problem-solving. If you view your conversation partner as a collaborator trying to accomplish a specific goal with you rather than an adversary to overcome, it's easier to stay calm and resolve any miscommunications. (In other words, conversations are cooperative, not competitive.) This doesn't mean you can't discuss the "what went wrong," but again - the goal is to learn and grow, not to point fingers. Diplomatic tools like sticking to neutral facts over feelings or accusations or making "I" statements can be helpful here. There's also lots to say about different mediums of communication - paying attention to tone of voice, body language, facial expressions, and so on can help you get a bigger picture of what someone is trying to communicate. Everyone has different communication styles (levels of sarcasm, sense of humor, preferences for text or voice, etc.) and as you get to know a person better, you'll learn theirs and how to read them better. While you're getting to know this about them, ask them lots of questions - "When you say xyz, are you being sarcastic?" "What were you feeling when you sent that message?" For close personal relationships, learning about things like past trauma, neurodivergence, mental health struggles, and general life stresses can help you understand their perspective and communication style. Also learn these things about yourself - why do you communicate the way you do? What are your preferences for medium? Do you tend to resort to humor when you're feeling awkward? Are you likely to lash out if you're feeling hurt? Knowing what your triggers and stressors are can help you communicate more clearly. And as we've all learned watching Shaaba's (and Jamie's) channels - context is everything. Advice is not one-size-fits-all - hopefully some of these things help you generally but if you have specific situations you need help navigating, feel free to ask wherever you feel is appropriate to ask for help. ETA: Since conversations are naturally a multi-player endeavor, you also need to remember to give yourself grace when they go badly. You can try to improve your communication skills as much as possible, of course, but if the other party is refusing to communicate with you clearly, you can't make them. You can do your best to work around them but there are always limits and it's important to give yourself credit for what you can do and be forgiving of what you can't.
I'm more sympathetic to the OP who wants her fiance to cover the tattoo. It sounds like the tattoo isn't the problem, just a symptom. It sounds like she believes that he's still hung up on his ex. And however she found the chat conversation, something about the "physical scar that you left on me" line makes me think that her fears might be justified. Possibly this is manifesting around the tattoo because OP doesn't want to have the very real, and very needed conversation around whether the fiance is still hung up on the ex.
When I first saw the messages I thought it sounded pretty bad. I don't think it needs to be as explicit as "I still think about you all the time". That kind of thing can be implied
@@alex_blue5802 Right? "the physical scar you left on me" is pretty loaded language. I would guess the fiance has some feelings about the ex that he hasn't processed or gotten over. It doesn't excuse her behavior in going through his phone, or justify taking away his bodily autonomy. But when I've had those kinds of intense feelings of jealousy/distrust in a relationship, it was my intuition telling me something. I think that's what's probably happening her, and I think OP is afraid of what the answer will be if she has this conversation.
@@bethgoltermann9231 and then he tells OP that he doesn't have any feelings for her. Jamie and Shaaba were thinking of a fond recollection of the past, but if that's all it was I'd think he could be honest about it. It seems like a red flag for him to be saying he's over his ex but then messaging her such loaded language behind his partner's back.
In Shaaba's defense, there is a book called 'If You Give A Mouse A Cookie' that explains exactly that premise. The mouse keeps asking for more and more. Maybe that's where the confusion lies (remembering that cookies are called biscuits in the British English vernacular).
The biscuit conversation has be rolling 😂😂i love you guys. I feel like the "biscuit" got logged in your brain because of the "give a mouse a cookie" story. Which to be fair is entirely about the concept of "give an inch they take a mile." So my ADHD brain is right there with you 😂❤️
For the first story, I feel the family were absolutely horrid. Imagine if you removed all the joke gifts from the scenario. You would end up with OP not getting any. If my family all got each other gifts and none for me I would be very hurt. OPs situation may be even more hurtful because she actually thought that she had been given gifts when she hadn't.
The tattoo one really gave me a lot of food for thought. When I was 19, I got a matching tattoo with someone who was just generally bad news and in the last few years I have been very much unpacking how much of bad news he was and know that for my own peace I need to get the tattoo covered-up. Some of the things you said about always having a connection with a person you have a matching tattoo with just further reinforced how much I need to be able to put this in my rear view. On a more positive note, it also reminded me of how much of a kind soul my husband is that he has never made me feel like my tattoos are anything but my own but he is also incredibly supportive of how much getting a cover-up is a priority for me and thus for us.
My birthday last year, I woke up earlier than the rest of my family and decided to make coffee, enough for everyone to have some- as my Dad usually does. I left it brewing and both my parents got up and started getting breakfast. I went to get my coffee and they had drunk all of it - they claimed that they thought I had had mine despite the plunger on the coffee not having been pushed down. They then proceeded to turn the water off in the house to fix a tap meaning I couldn't shower and therefore couldn't go out without even warning me or letting me know before they did so - note this was not an emergency fix or a leak. This was after I had mentioned wanting to go out in the morning/early afternoon the previous night. I hadn't even brushed my teeth. They then told me I was unreasonable and ungrateful because I told them that they should have warned me before turning the water off and that was a basic consideration and was angry that I had to spend half my birthday feeling gross, dirty, smelly and actually disgusting given I had started my period 2 days prior.
If you want to learn more about consensual non monogamy, I recommend the book More Than Two. There were a good chunk of red flags mostly stemming from non-communication in that last story, though.
Or the latest edition of the ethical slut 😊 the last one was a bit of a headache, ahaha, if people are already in an established relationship that started monog, they really need to read up on and explore the foundations they want to lay first and work out the finer things first, instead of just agreeing to a basic one and just jumping in 😅
40:00 Hi! Me and my current boyfriend are both poly and on the asexual spectrum (not currently having a poly relationship) and wanted to explain a bit clearer the term :) Polyamorous only refers to romantic stuff. Poly can be closed (just like a monogamous relationship, but instead of two you're three, four, five, whatever) or open (you are in a relationship but you can have other partners that aren't related with each other). You can also have a closed poly relationship where you aren't all with each other (for example, a V relationship, where one person is with the other two but the other two can be friends for example). When you're talking about sex, it's an open relationship. That means, you can have sex with other people outside of the relationship. It's really important to separate sex from romantic attraction! For example, one of my best friends is in a poly relationship with two other guys. They're all three with each other and they're in the ace spectrum, and it's a closed relationship. Me and my partner are polyam, and we would never have sex with other people that we don't know! Also we have a closed relationship, and from the moment we are monogamous but we could have another partner in the relationship
I tried to give my brother a joke gift (with his real present hidden in another room). It was a calendar of dogs pooping. Turns out, he absolutely loved it 🤣. So my brother got two good Christmas presents from me this year instead of one.
The first one is so mean! My Nan does kind of the opposite to what happened in this story, she often puts our main/ most expensive gift in a box from an everyday item, e.g. in a biscuit box. When we open the present we then have to go for the thought process of "is it actually biscuits or is there something different in the box?" We've kind of all gotten used to it now, but there's still a chance it could actually be biscuits!
oooo that tattoo story is really tricky for me actually! im trying to picture myself as the girlfriend and i think i would feel similarly, i get tattoos are part of your story but why would he want to keep a tattoo that serves as a constant reminder of someone who hurt him AND makes my new partner who im going to marry feel uncomfortable. i also agree that i need to know what the tattoo is, if it work as a stand alone tattoo that makes it very tricky, but if it is a coupley thing... id probably end the relationship if im being entirely honest but i dont think either party are bad people
Story 3 made me feel really icky. It felt to me like guy partner was with mer and saw him as a woman, but when mer started transitioning, partner wanted something else. Especially with the talk of children. It felt like guy partner was invalidating mer's gender identity in a way.
For the polyam one, I think a lot of us in the community would define polyamory specifically as multiple romantic relationships (which are often, but not necessarily, sexual). It sounds like the OP was expecting more of an open relationship, which included sex but not the romantic connections, and although they both come under the umbrella of ethical nonmonogamy, they're very different styles of relationships. A lot of people use terminology differently though, which makes it even more important to have thorough conversations before starting a nonmonogamous relationship and on an ongoing basis. I've been polyam for about ten years and i've seen lots of cases where people start with an open relationship or as swingers and then one partner catches feelings for someone else and they haven't talked about what they would do in that situation. If you're going outisde the boundaries of what has been agreed, you're essentially cheating and things can get very messy very quickly. We also talk a lot about something called "new relationship energy" or NRE, which is that rush you get when you connect with someone new, especially in the first few month. It's easy to get carried away with NRE and you can make decisions which damage more established relationships, such as neglecting the wants and needs of existing partners. This could be partly what the OP's partner is experiencing and contributing to them neglecting OP and wanting to spend all their time with the new person. Though it certainly doesn't excuse the behaviour. Relationships also get exponentially more complicated the more people you add. When you have two people, there is only one relationship to manage and it is *relatively* easy to talk about your boundaries, expectations, feeling etc. When you have three people, you have four relationships (the reationships between 1/2, 2/3, and 3/1, and the relationship of the triad (where all three people are dating) or V (where one peoson is dating two other people) as a whole) which all have to be considered separately. It can be hard to prepare yourself for the level of extra work involved when you've never experienced it before! Ultimately, OP can't control what their partner decides to do. They can talk to them about their feelings and if their partner wants to persue a polyam a relationship with this other person then they can choose to stay, in which case there are a lot of excellent books on polyamory (personally i recommend "The Ethical Sl*t" as a good starting point, if anyone is interested) which they should all read to help them manage the change in their relationship. Alternatively, they can choose to leave. If their partner decides not to persue the other relationship, then they probably need a new roommate. Bottling up feelings, by any of the parties involved, just sounds like a recipe for disaster.
The bit about it getting more complicated is so real, I always say in my heart I'm poly (I believe I could love multiple people and would be okay with my partner also being with someone else), but from a logistical standpoint I don't think I actually have the emotional energy, organizational skills etc to keep up with multiple relationships 😅
@@Link-dx1lx the logistics of ENM can certainly be a tricky thing to navigate, yes. However, as someone who only consciously realised and accepted that no, monogamy is *not* for me 4 years ago, I've actually somehow found it *easier* to deal with things like organisational and emotional stuff than I did in the 15-ish years of attempting long-term monogamy (3 different serious relationships across that time frame, even an engagement). Perhaps it's due to the circumstances and resultant exploration, reflection, and acceptance of self throughout the journey of this revelation. Perhaps it's due to the point that there seems to be more emphasis on being on top of such things when trying to maintain healthy ENM/poly dynamics than what I had/was when trying to stick to monog. Perhaps it's a combination of both of those, and perhaps there's some other things tossed in there somewhere. Whatever the reasoning is for it, I've been finding my journeys navigating ENM/poly to be easier, and my relationships, overall, seem to be healthier. That's not to say that it's going to be that way for everyone though, and I don't think I'd be able to deal with it anywhere near this well if it wasn't for the journey of discovery that I went on (which also included non-relationship major life stuff).
Oh, I have a joke gift I got for my coworker this year. He said he needed a new processor(for his computer), so I got him a food processor. He thought it was funny. But I did get him other things he wanted. And an actual processor for his computer. I also did include a gift receipt, in case he didn't want or need a food processor.
45:42 made me so happy, ive dealt with so much doubt over my relationship with my two partners from people around me but im celebrating 4 years with them next week!
also as far as the poly relationship goes in the video, the partner is absolutely the drama, they are cheating on op and do seem manipulative. me and my partners communicate in so much detail about what we are comfortable with and regularly update each other on any changes. in poly relationships communication is more than key, it can become incredibly toxic without it and it rly seems like this is whats happening here. i hope op is okay and i wish them the best
The third story is somewhat relatable to me. I was in a monogamous relationship with my ex years ago. We had quite a few poly friends, and at some point my ex developed some feelings towards one of them. We had the discussion and I basically told him to go for it. All was cool for a year or two, they were dating and I was fine with it. We had agreed on everything that happened, but you can't really control feelings. Eventually their feelings grew into something bigger, and suddenly they were about to break up, because they didn't see another way forward without him breaking his promises to me. I'll always be proud of recognising that as a wrong choice, since I wasn't going to ever give him everything he needed. We all moved in together for a while, until it was clear that's not going to work either, and I moved out. Should really have ended the relationship before the first move, but in the end things worked well enough, no big drama. They're still together and have kids, and I'm happily in a monogamous relationship with my current partner, so everything is as it should. I don't regret living through that stage, but wouldn't start another poly relationship myself. It honestly works well for some, but for me there's too much to constantly adjust, compromise about, and plan for. Just not worth all the extra hassle, a two person relationship is enough work as is.
I’m an old monogamous person and have known some very fine people who were poly, but whether their own or their stories about other poly friends, I have never once seen such a relationship be successful. So I’m accepting (not that they need my approval or permission), but could never be okay with that for myself.
@@joanfregapane8683 That's perfectly fine of course 😊 It's good to know our limits, and I'll be the first one to admit that poly relationships don't suit everyone. Some not at all, and others only for a shorter period. I've personally seen some very succesful long term poly relationships, but also some that don't last. I can't remember exactly for how long my ex has been with this other partner, but must be pushing a decade by now. I'd count that as success, since even most mono relationships don't last that long. (And they're still poly, in case it sounded like it's just him and the other partner now. At least one other long term partner in the picture.)
That was my thought about the tattoo! I feel like getting new paired tattoos would be a good compromise. I broke up with a long time friend I have known more than half my life, but I have a tattoo that is tied to her. I don't have any intention to ever remove it or assign it to someone else. She has been a big part of my life and even if we never become friends again, that doesn't erase the many years we were together. She formed a big part of who I am, an indelible mark on my soul. If someone gets jealous of that, that's a them problem and they can leave if they can't stand it. But I would also be happy to add them to it. So I would be more than happy to add them to my tattoo if they played a role in shaping who I am as well
I’ve got to say I think it’s a miss on the tattoo one. While on the one hand I don’t think it’s right to ask someone to remove the tattoo, I would seriously consider leaving if I saw that conversation. Especially if the partner’s logic is I can’t have feelings because of betrayal… because you can still be hung up on someone while the thought of them brings you a lot of pain. Even if you don’t go back to them, thinking of the “scar” they left every. Single. Day. I wouldn’t ask them to remove it, but if they didn’t do it of there own accord I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who was constantly thinking of the woman who betrayed him. I have exes who have left emotional scars, but I knew I was ready to move on when I stopped thinking of them regularly. And I definitely wouldn’t be seeking them out and asking them if they had held onto that mementos too. Id also point out that while this conversation COULD happen between two exes are still in each other’s lives platonically, that goes against everything the ex has said. Like you don’t just remain friends with the person who betrayed you in the worst way. Nothing about that conversation seems healthy for someone about to get married to someone else.
Agree to everything except the asking to remove part. You are allowed to ask if your partner would remove it or cover it up. They are allowed to say no. After that it is not your place to demand that, but generally asking is not against bodily autonomy.
I listened to the podcast on Spotify and I think you should turn up the volume on Jamies mic. Listening with headphones I often had to turn the volume up when Jamie was speaking because he was a bit quieter and then turn it down when Shaaba is speaking. Love the podcast btw it’s so funny and wholesome and makes my day!!!!! ❤
For the Mer situation, I feel like gender and genital preferences have a lot to do with why the partner is looking elsewhere. Makes me wonder how deeply he has thought about Mer’s transition, and if he really respects it.
I am so glad you added the text! I sometimes seem to struggle with understanding what people are saying (some auditory processing problem), so having a written form attached helps tremendously
My brother asked for a Duster (jacket) for Christmas when he was a teenager. And my parents bought and wrapped up a feather duster for him to open. They also got him a real one though because you don't just buy all joke gifts for someone when everyone else got real gifts.
This episode has made me feel better about my own little scenario of AITD, which I don't need to get into here...but basically, it reminded me that platonic friends also need to consider each other's consent and boundaries for things, not just for intimate partners, and if they don't that's a warning sign to consider. Boundaries are hard work and I'm still learning to stick up for myself, but it is worth it in the end.
That Christmas one omg how heart-breaking that would have felt to open TWELEVE joke gifts and get no genuine ones AND have so many be actually gifts for other people. I hope their partner's family invite them again for the next one, I'm glad they got the book they wanted.
I fully agree with the commenter on the first story who implied the OP’s family didn’t love them. Remember Jamie, love isn’t a feeling, it’s the actions you take. If someone claims to love you, then purposefully hurts you, then they were lying. Even if that means they were also lying to themselves.
whew, i really appreciated the polya story, because i was in a similar situation of being blindsided with a new romantic partner and i've spent nearly a decade thinking i was the drama.
I think anyone would get really annoyed and tired of 12 back to back pranks that are meant to play with your emotions. Joke gifts that are made to make you feel a high and then drop to a low are emotionally taxing. Getting 12 in a row while also realizing you're being singled out for this behavior and the joke gifts weren't even for you but side products of a genuine and thought gift for someone else is lowkey cruel. I wouldn't broken down. Like the moment I got into the car with my boyfriend, I would've started crying. That's just so mean.
Seriously though! The fact you think you'd make it to the car to cry is impressive, I'd be bawling and leave the room after the 3rd or 4th prank gift lol That's so mean and targeted!
That first one was a doozy. Such an entire insensitive family that they even thought OP getting a present on their list, 1 PRESENT, was essentially "sub tweeting" about them when they posted the book on Instagram. That would make me rethink my entire relationship with my family members at that point. In my family joke gifts are always done in tandem with REAL gifts. They're also extremely rare. One year we put a fake remote control tarantula in a wrapped box and gave it to my Aunt. It was hilarious but she still got her REAL gift afterwards. My brother was sent on a scavenger hunt for his gift in my grandparents house via a clue and this clue led him to a box, of which he unwrapped and found another clue. This boxed clue would happen several times until finally the last clue led him to his REAL present's location. Imo joke gifts are in extremely poor taste on a normal basis. They're way better done, and funny, when you do them every now and then. Otherwise it's just bullying.
It’s okay to ask what the tattoo means to him, and if he wanted it removed, but it’s never okay to demand it, it’s never okay not to to have enough trust in your partner, you need to leave immediately if you are this untrusting of him.
This has everything I love from the solo Shaaba AITA videos (including Shaaba herself, the text on the screen so I can read along, and the juicy drama), plus things that I've always wanted and even things I never knew how much I wanted (CHAPTERS that nicely break up the stories for ease of referring back in the comments or closing the video and coming back to where you left off later, JAMIE and the lovely banter between them as well as the deeper reflections that come from people running their thoughts past each other, and LONGER EPISODES for just that much more of these two lovely people). All it's missing is some non-auto-generated closed captioning, and then *chef's kiss* perfection
A common problem with poly and open relationships is when people don't make it very clear what the expectations and boundaries for each person are, and both/all parties don't stick to those. It's literally called negotiating, and relationships can and should be renegotiated, IN ADVANCE OF ACTION, if/when something comes up that a person wants to change the dynamic of the relationship. Some people even put these things down in writing like a contract, so that neither party can be mistaken about what what and was not agreed to. Also, if two people start in a supposed FWB relationship, and grow to have feelings for one another, and have discussed their feelings together I don't even see how it is possible to "bottle" the feelings while continuing on with the fwb and roommate parts of their relationship. What they are actually doing is pretending around OP that they're not in a romantic relationship. The boyfriend also messed up or was dishonest about it by considering a 'triad' with someone that OP holds no attraction to, and didn't even bother to find out how they felt before bringing up that sort of thing with the new person. It's really sad. In my experience, I've seen people do poly and open relationships well with about the same frequency as people who are in monogamous relationships, which do not have that high of a healthy success rate either. This type of negotiation/clarification that is supposed to happen in open or poly relationships would also be useful when starting monogamous relationships, by clarifying what each person cheating as, and also what they expect and what their boundaries are for the relationship.
In the Pranks, when you talk about giving the box of an item with something else inside, I can't help to recall a small prank we did to my younger brother one Christmas. He was so sure he was getting an ice hockey stick, one gift was wrapped in this shape, when he opened it, it was actually a painter's roll brush on a long stick and he was first disappointed... until my mom went to fetch his real gift: a brand new ice hockey stick, which was packed and wrapped in a long box. Then he could laugh about it, it was a harmless prank since he did get what he thought to be getting and was happy about his present.
Im going to quote Luxaria from one of her videos "Those people wearing rose colored glasses dont notice the red flags, you just see a party." That family seems toxic, the fact that not one person owned up to what happened and apologized. Seems like they are the family from the land of narcissism. All the steps taken to 'not stir the pot' is sadly the only thing you can do. Distance and non engagement.
That first story is so sad. I think that OP should give them a taste of what she felt. Invite them to a pricey restaurant, say it's to "apologize". When they get there, make a show of how sorry you are, let them order and start to eat. Then go to the loo. Sneak out and tell the staff the others are paying. Get out, go home and send them texts telling them it was "just a prank"!
Tattoo story: tbh from the get go, I would have some hesitation dating someone if I knew that they had a « couple » tattoo with someone else still on their body. If it would depend on the tattoo and their attitude toward it, but it’s information I’d like to know and would be considered when I decided if I want to be with that person.
0:41 - 1:00 The opening tune and editing along with it, it's such a BOP! I can't help but swing to it, and you two being wholesome in the short clips as it plays really cheers me up ❤
Shaaba, you're so nice. You want people to always work things out and looking at both sides. The first story: my impulse is to say OP was NTD and tell her she's better off without this family that obviously doesn't give two sh!ts about her feelings, and it seems like it's been this way for awhile if she'd had to learn not to react in the past.
The most significant prank I remember is that we gave a set of car keys to a family friend for his 18th Birthday, but in reality it was just a toy car. However, this person at the time hated driving due to a bad experience with a driving instructor, so an actual car was the last thing that he wanted. Prank gifts can be great in the setting, but the stuff in Story 1 is just callous.
The gift thing sounds like my family... I don't speak to them anymore. I was gaslit into believing it was me for soo long before realising they don't care about me, and if they do - hell of a way of showing it! - it is now their loss. My parents are divorced and I do speak to my dad.
As a poly romantic individual, I can assure you that the partner who is seeing the housemate against op's wishes is, in fact, cheating on them. Without the explicit permission from your partner and getting approval from them about who the other person is and the nature of the relationship, it becomes a nonconsensual relationship and is no longer poly and is now simply plain old cheating. You usually need permission at every step, and they shouldn't be taking them on trips either.
For sure. Im also poly and when op said they thought the housemate wasn't poly, i fully would bet she isn't. There is no consideration for op here. That is fully just cheating.
Fun fact: the mixing of idioms (such as "give an inch, take a biscuit") is called a malaphor. My favorite example is "we'll burn that bridge when we come to it"
Oh my god, that's hilarious, I /just/ wrote the same thing because that's also my favourite malaphor. Same brain lmao
Why is this so wholesome?
@@freyacrooke4008 malaphor twins!
My favorite is "we'll jump that shark when we get to it" so very similar!
Love a good fun fact (and that’s a great malaphor:)
Jesus Christ that first story made me so angry. The audacity of that family to get mad at OP for "Ruining the mood" when they went out of their way to show her that they seemingly don't give two shits about her and her feelings. I bet they'll soon wonder why she never visits them.
It literally *SCREAMS* that this is a repeated pattern of behavior 😿 for the OP to literally respond that they have had to mask their own feelings over the years because otherwise they'd be the target of gaslighting...poor dear!!!
Good for OP's boyfriend in the first story for supporting OP.
@@Scatscar1985 Agreed! He must have been FLOORED when he saw all this unravel in real-time!
The family's Gaslighting is bananas.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar at this point it's so ingrained into their relationship dynamic with OP that they'll likely NEVER change...I can only hope OP can cut ties with them enough that their bullying tactics no longer have as much of an effect on her, and also hope that she cultivates a *found-family* that gives her the love and support she deserves
Discussing poly dynamics over brunch should be the new standard.
Would it be okay to book the table nearby to listen and learn?..
The book one baffles me, they could’ve put the cover of a dictionary on the book she asked for. That’d be a great joke gift.
exactly!
For the first story, that family is doing joke gifts all wrong!! You give the person a "bad gift" and let them try to awkwardly hide their disappointment and saying thanks when they don't mean it (you let this happen for like a few seconds only) and then you say "no, open it!" and inside is a gift they wanted. I did this with my mom. She was very vocal about hating a certain movie, then a few months later I gave her a dvd of that movie. She looked so confused and disappointed but trying to hide it, but when I told her to open it, there was a movie inside that she actually wanted. She thought it was hilarious! The joke isn't funny if the reveal is the crappy thing, wtf.
YES!!!!!!! THANK YOU! I personally am not the biggest fan of joke gifts where the joke is “haha you thought you were getting something you liked, but it turned out to be garbage”, because that just feels pointless and mean. If someone wants to do a joke gift, it should be “haha you thought I would get you something bad, but I would never do that to you, so here’s your actual gift”.
It should be a positive subversion of expectations, not a negative one.
As someone with Autism this joke is my worst nightmare. Usually when I open gifts while I’m extremely grateful for the time, money and thought that’s been put into any gift I get - people even close family, tend to just get me generic stuff like body wash, shampoo, soaps etc. I KNOW I’m terrible to buy for because my only real interest is animals (dogs, horses) and so I don’t like getting things for myself but love new stuff for my animals ie. a cute collar, treats, any gear toys etc. My family and friends don’t feel right buying my animals stuff for ‘my’ special occasion, even though that is what I would much prefer and enjoy more than a gift for me. Especially because gear wears out, doesn’t fit anymore or need updating and it’s where most of my money goes so buying things like that would actually help out more than a generic gift I may not even use.
A few of my hobbies/interests are very obscure or ‘more childish’ for example I was very into Star Trek and wanted all the ship Lego sets but once I was over 10, my parents thought that was too childish. I also LOVE stuffed animals and collect certain brands/series so I’d request those but wouldn’t get them because a 16yr old shouldn’t still want stuffed animals for bday’s and Xmas.
When I was younger I never got anything on my ‘wish list’ but my siblings got a lot/all of the things of there’s because my items weren’t necessarily ‘age appropriate’ - like wanting legos that were ‘too complicated’ for my age, soft toys, sensory type items or books (I was very ahead in my reading so I’d request novels (age appropriate content but long thick books) which more distant family members felt were ‘boring’ to buy as a present or too difficult for my age to actually read/understand.
Even when I get a gift I really love with all my heart my face usually is completely blank and I look indifferent about it (usually because I’m so overwhelmed with happiness, gratitude that I don’t know what to say or act) so I can get something I really love and it may not look like I love it but it’ll be something I can’t put down, want to try or use straight away, or something I’ll treasure. But because of this I learnt very early on that you HAVE to have a reaction and a good reaction when you open presents. I actually hate receiving presents and it gives me terrible anxiety around the holidays even though I’ve been declared the ‘best gift giver’ and I love giving people presents and spending hours or weeks finding the perfect things to give to everyone - I think because I can see how much joy someone can get from a truly good gift that’s very personalised to them. Of course I never want to offend someone when they’ve done the wonderful thing of spending their time and money on something for me but my entire family have given up on trying to buy me gifts without consulting me first.
Nowadays I give everyone a list weeks in advance of any holiday/gift times with big and little expense items from a range of different categories with links to everything and they know I completely will love a simple note on a card with a ‘token’ where they’ll pay for me to order a certain item I want so I can go in store or online myself and order it and open it later away from the whole parade of people. And I call them once I’ve ordered/gotten it and take photos of whatever it is in use and say my thankyous over phone or text. It’s so much less stressful and I can know the exact brand, model or thing that’s in the mail or in the store so I know exact what to expect and how to react in advance 😅 Plus it limits the amount of random junk that end up stuck in a box. I always ask for charging cables and my favourite brand of cheap noise cancelling headphones (to the point where my family jokes they have to toss a coin for the ‘easy gifts’ or they’d fight over who got me those same things last year! 😂
Anyway, my mum and dad both played this joke on my sister and I one year, we needed an iPad for school and my parents told us we’d have to wait till Xmas/birthdays and get one to share. They addressed a present to the both of us and found a friends who had an iPad box and wrapped it up with a book inside (no iPad) then gave us the gift, my sister started crying when she saw the box so overwhelmed that they’d actually gotten it for us (my parents were very strict no technology people so we figured an iPad was a pipe dream to say the least). I let her open the box because she was obviously more invested in it than me (she as a NT wanted to fit in with friends, I wanted it so I could take pictures of my pets with a good camera and play my favourite horse game I was obsessed with to the point of sneaking the family laptop into my room at night). When my sister saw it was a book instead (a maths homework one, not something good) she was rightly furious and disappointed (there was no iPad and the maths homework book was a borrow from the library). I felt hurt that they had lied and disappointed about the lack of iPad but tried to please my parents by dutifully opening up the book and commenting on how ‘I guess it’s good to refresh my maths skills before school started” - in truth I think that’s when my parents finally gave up on the whole “let’s get something age appropriate that we ‘think you should’ve enjoy instead of something I actually wanted and requested probably because I reacted how I would to that maths book how I did to all the presents they’d ever gotten me and not like a heartbroken kid not getting an iPad 🤷♀️ My parents being it up every Xmas to laugh about it but my sister and I still don’t find it remotely funny and are still very hurt over it. I totally get that some people and especially families have a joke gift tradition and in truth my sister and I have our own version of that but any type of joke present situation terrifies me - they tried to do something at work and I just couldn’t even participate because work grifts seem to revolve around alcohol or chocolate (both things I don’t like nor eat) so I’m definitely the WORST person to do any type of secret Santa thing with because I’d way prefer someone just ask me what I want and give it to me in private or get me nothing at all than be scrutinised by a huge group of coworkers and trying to seem really pleased with a generic gift while you’re not sure who you’re supposed to look pleased about it to 😰
I don’t want surprises. Just ask me what I want and tell me your price range and I’ll give you links and options. I don’t even care if I don’t get anything. I’ll get you something really perfect for you and that’ll be the absolute highlight of any special occasion - seeing your joy for something I’ve put time and thought into but that does not mean you need to get me something. In fact I’d prefer if you didn’t at all…
I think because I’ve had to awkwardly sit through gifts I don’t actually like and pretend to like them means that I want everyone else to not go through that so I want to give the best, most personalised and handy gifts I can so that the people I treasure don’t have to experience that when they get a gift from me.
Of course I’m autistic so probably can’t really tell if they like the gifts or are just acting but a lot of my family members have joked that they need to ‘up their gift game’ after I’ve given them gifts so I think that means they’re good haha
Poly Story: I'm poly-adjacent and okay with either poly or monogamous relationships.
Run, OP, Run.
You agreed to something and your boundaries were violated. Every single time there is a boundary, it gets violated. That's not ethical non-monogamy, that's cheating. Flat out. Cheating happens with poly. The only difference is when the cheating applies. It's after sex but before a relationship. The minute there is a relationship you didn't agree to, it was cheating.
And unfortunately, when poly relationships break, they tend to break unfairly. So you are looking at this imploding and you splitting off. It's not fair, but that is what it is.
Now. That said.
For people who don't want kids and are poly, you have got to have a concrete plan for what to do with unplanned pregnancies. If you are not the parent of that offspring, you have no say. So make sure everybody is on the same page or you are going to have a huge problem. It's easy if everybody cannot reproduce together, but if your partner is having sex with another person and a baby happens, it's better to have a plan than to have an issue after the fact.
I know this platform is a bit wide and a lot of people aren't exposed to poly relationships. So for new poly people, that piece of advice is the best I have.
So important about discussing what happens around kids! It can become such a mess if one person wants to have kids while their partner doesn't but another partner does probably a little easier in a vee structure, less do in a triad 😂
Thank you for saying this so clearly! I also commented but it was more of a garbled ramble. OP is not in a good situation and unfortunately is probably going to take the brunt of it
Poly here and agree - this situation is red flag city. I'm not seeing much respect for OP's boundaries OR consideration for OP's feelings in this relationship. It reeks of "I'm gonna use poly as an excuse to do whatever I want without consequences." I know people who have lived with multiple partners, but I get the impression that they put in a lot of effort to be really considerate and thoughtful to everyone involved. Living with your metamor (partner's other partner) is kind of high level poly and often something people have to really work up to. Falling into bed with your roommate without first talking to your partner about how they would feel potentially living with a metamor when you're new to this is a LOT to put on a partner in a poly relationship IMHO, even moreso in an open, non-poly situation. If my partner prioritized my feelings so little, I would be definitely be questioning that relationship.
One other note I'd like to add, is that just because you may have discussed something once in the past, doesn't mean that it's concrete - you MUST keep communication open and discuss things as you grow together in your relationship. So it doesn't matter that you discussed it before, you have to keep having the discussions and especially BEFORE you do anything, especially if this time it's different (new emotional connections). I had a very similar situation and I'd say to OP get out now - it will only get worse from here because your partner is no longer taking your feelings into consideration and it sounds like they're going to do whatever they want without considering, let alone consulting, you. HUGGS!
Poly-adjacent as you described it is actually ambiamory. It's a pretty cool relationship orientation, imo.
When I was a kid my sister wanted a cellphone for Christmas, so my parents got her a toy cellphone AND a real cellphone and made sure she opened the toy one first lol.
See this is how you do joke gifts
@bboops23 Yeah, my family is VERY practiced at joke gifts. Tho our most common one is to hide some gifts in other gifts like wrapping a computer in a sweater, so the computer is the surprise. Or one year, the majority of my gifts had a small plastic rabbit in them somewhere bc rabbits are my fav animals. But each gift was still its own thoughtful thing, just plus tiny plastic rabbit
The point of a joke gift is to make the surprise a happy one
@@ShortForMertchel my family likes to wrap gifts in layers of boxes and occasionally they put a clothing item over the last box to trick you, but the last box is always the big gift. So when you see a sweater over the last box you think of, they must have tricked me into thinking the big gift was in here. Good one guys.
I read your comment as cellophane and was so confused as to a) why your sister wanted cellophane and b) how on earth you do fake cellophane 😭😂
So if Shaaba's followers are "peaches" and Jamie's followers are "spuds," should the podcast's followers be "biscuits"?
peach and potato biscuits
The tattoo one kinda hit home for me, my fiancé and I got each others names in Arabic on our bodies (his was under his heart and it said both our names) I got his name in Arabic on the back of my neck. However in 2020 he passed away and I did find someone a year later, at first he didn’t mind it but then when we moved in he kept going on about it and that my fiancé was “ashes on a field” so why do I need to keep mine. This was also at a time where he was physically hurting me and I crumbled. I got a tattoo over the Arabic writing but I covered it with symbolic things for peace and love - in a way to me it’s saying he’s at peace now but I sure do regret letting that guy bully me into changing my tattoo. He recently became my ex after I found on top of the abuse he was unfaithful yet accusing me who’s disabled and can’t go far of cheating. 2024 has never looked so positive after such a hellish year in 2023
I'm so sorry for your loss and how this other guy treated you 😔
Aww honey, that sounds so rough! Well done for getting through it, and hope 2024 brings you much-deserved joy. xox
I hope you get his tattoo re done one day (if you want) big and bold and full of love and you find someone who loves you and understands you have love for more than 1 person
It's awful all that happened, it sounds like you've really been through some much bad stuff... I'm glad you have a positive mindset for the upcoming year, I hope you can see how strong that is and that you're proud of yourself!
I think lots of people would be so down, which would be understandable, so the fact you have that positive outlook is great imo. Good luck to you 🍀
I’m so sorry for you loss and for the horrible time you had last year. Try to remember that he is always there, even if it is underneath another tattoo, his name is still in your skin, a part of you. Good luck this year!
Story 3: Op is not the drama but the relationship is over. I think the partner is in love with his "friend with benefits" and they will get together eventually. I feel sad for OP but if the partner loves his friend, there is nothing that can be done about it, and it might be better for everyone if they just ended their relationship
Definitely. You cannot be in a relationship were the other person doesn't want to hear how your feeling about this situation and for the so called partner to say we've discussed it when he may have said all they want and it's done means he doesn't care enough about his partner to be honest with himself and OP.
That story really hit home for me too. I was in OP's position about 20 years ago, where I wanted to respect my same-sex partner's ethical non-monogamy standpoint. All her other sexual partners were with men i.e. not same-sex. She would also talk about having kids, particularly with the man who ended up being a romantic relationship. I did my best to respect her views, but it did make me realise that sex for me is an emotional connection, and that I am not suited to poly relationships. It's heart-breaking, but when the *one* person you love is clearly (falling) in love with someone else, it can be better to let go.
I do wonder whether OP's partner was taking advantage of OP's disability to just do what he wanted e.g. You can't satisfy me because disabled, so I *need* to go elsewhere. What about OP's needs, especially emotional needs? It can be extra-demoralising to be a disabled person in a relationship with a non-disabled person, as we're so often devalued as potential partners. We are extra-vulnerable to end up in abusive relationships, because we can easily be isolated and made to feel like a burden. We are desirable and are not a burden, we deserve love and respect. xox
@coleenocasturme I hope many people will read your comment, you express it beautifully.
I really hope OP will realize that he is worth being loved the way he wants it to be (monogamous) and will find a relationship more suitable for him.
Because in this situation, I don't think anyone is actually happy. OP is obviously suffering from the situation but his partner must be too if he is trying to bottle it up. And the friend must also be unhappy since she has to stay sex friends with a man she clearly love and want to be in a relationship with. Everyone is miserable in this situation and everyone would beneficiate from a breakup
It's sad because OP lives with both of them. He either has to see the two of them in a relationship or move out at a time when he needs stability. I feel really bad for him.
@@alex_blue5802 Yeah that's true :(
But sometimes moving is for the best
Polygamy with a man having dominion over multiple wives is probably where we have garnered a distaste for Poly type relationships.
I genuinely think that masculinity as it is currently structured makes polyamory with cishet men almost impossible.
I think we have seen so many cults hiding behind god and polyamory to do horrible things to women and children, that we just see polyamory=non consensual, power driven, gross and unethical relationship between one man, and many women..
Personally i wouldnt mind being in a polyamorus relationship, as i am a female Bi/Pan asexual, in a relationship with a straight guy with a big sexdrive.. I love him to bits, but his need and my need dosent match, we have se tase in girls, and i wouldnt really mind having a girlfriend.
We have talked about this for HOURS on end, because its not something you should just do.
I have insecurities, i know that, and its something we would have to take slow and work through, but we are already doing that regardless of finding a 3rd partner or not.
We have made some very clear agreements, with clear boundaries, and agreements, and we do check in now and then to make sure everything is clear.
We can always take back our concent.
But so far none of us have needed to go out and "seek" anything, so thats just fine.
Its just nice to know how good our communication became and is from going through this kind of conversation :)
Polyamory is not a bad thing, but as eveything is, can, and are being misused by gross, selfcentered people who dosent care about their partners but only their status in their community..
Polygamy and polyamory are two totally different things
While I don't have concrete proof, it sounds and feels very possible that that's where the majority of the bad rep comes from.
@@tammysantana7200I think OP knows that, but is suggesting that a lot of people conflate the two because their only exposure to non monogamous relationships is the concept of polygamy
I asked for a new computer for christmas, and my family put the computer in a giant box of toilet paper before wrapping it up. I also had all the family gifts in my pile so it wouldn't be as empty (since my siblings got a lot more but less expensive gifts). When it was finally time to open my one real gift, I unwrapped the box, noticed that it was the same box that toilet paper came in (but didn't think much of it since reusing boxes isn't uncommon in my family), opened it to find... toilet paper. Underneath the toilet paper was my computer, and me and my family all thought it was hilarious. Like you guys said, it's not funny unless everyone's laughing.
Now THIS is how you do a prank gift! Make the person think you got a bad gift then surprise them with a thoughtful one. Not the other way around
First story feels like it escalated from pranking to bullying
it's textbook gaslighting and playing favorites
Defining bullying. Pranking is supposed to be funny, but there is nothing funny about hurting someone’s feeling and humiliating them. I’m glad OP ended up having a good holiday period with her boyfriend and his family, and that she got the book she wanted.
fun fact: "give an inch, take a biscuit" would be considered a malaphor! or a mixing of phrases or idioms. they are so fun! this includes sayings like "we'll burn that bridge when we get to it," or "you've opened your can of worms, now lie in it." these make some sense, but some are completely nonsensical, such as "even a left is right twice a day" (a mixture of "two wrongs don't make a right" and "even a broken clock is right twice a day")
Love this as always! Note about polyamory and hierarchies: there are a lot of different forms and hierarchy types in polyamorous relationships, and having a hierarchal type with a “primary” partner and other partners being secondary is only one type (though it does sound like that’s at least what Mer thought was happening at first). But there are also non-hierarchical types where all partners are equal (so any partner would be potentially be able to get in new relationships or manage other relationships without having to run stuff by their first partner; of course they do need to still be open and communicative about normal relationship stuff, but when it comes to other partners it’s like they’re single because they’re fully autonomous. This sounds like what Mer’s partner thought was going on). There’s also kitchen table poly, where everyone comes together on equal footing and makes all decisions together (and all members of the polycule often all date each other and frequently live together in this kind of relationship, thus the “kitchen table” being their home base hehe). That sounds like maybe what the partner and “sister” roommate wanted to transition to.
And of course there can be lots of combos thereof! You can have one person in the polycule who has a primary partner and 1+ secondary partners, and those secondary partners can have non-hierarchical or kitchen table poly relationships with each other or with other people. It can be a whole lovely web.
AND. You guys are incredibly correct that, in this particular situation, the boundaries and conversations are not being respected, so regardless of poly rules and hierarchies this relationship itself is problematic.
I think when Shaaba used the word "hierarchy" she wasn't meaning in the sense of that particular polyamorous structure, but more in the sense of "this relationship is the established one, so the boundaries and agreements that have already been made need to be respected when introducing new dynamics." So more precedent than hierarchy.
To clarify, even if Mer and partner wanted to have a non-hierarchical poly relationship of whatever nature, since they are already in a committed relationship to one another, they would still need to both consent to that and agree on the dynamics it would involve before seeking out/involving other people, which I think is what Shaaba was trying to say.
This is all good information, too, just wanting to add a bit of clarification of my own. ^^;
Wow, thank you for all the info!
Oh good, was about to type a long explanation of some of this but you explained it better than I could anyway. Kudos
Y'know, I totally agree that the OP in the second story is lying about how she managed to see the texts, but re: the "no way would anyone find out by seeing open texts left brazenly on a table"--that is, in fact, exactly how my mom found out how many women my dad was cheating on her with LMAO, he just,,, left his texts open face-up on a SHARED!!!!! table literally directly next to her. Phones fall asleep yeah but sometimes people are so remarkably stupid (that said--does not seem like the vibe here at all lol).
Edit: Also thank you Shaaba for spreading "the plastics are actually just a polycule" propaganda. This is so real.
Adding on to this: people can change how soon their phones fall asleep. I have mine set to not fall asleep for like a minute or more.
Tho considering what we know, I think it'd have to be in a "don't go into sleep mode" setting, and that seems unrealistic in this situation to me.
I think rslash said something pretty clever about story 1: OP was indeed upset "over nothing". As in, she *got nothing and found that upsetting.*
Yes, as Jamie said, what was OP ungrateful for? There was literally no presents (&or behaviour around the gifts) to be grateful for!
I feel so bad for that person, I hope they've been able to go low contact with the family
In a healthy poly relationship communication about boundaries is a constant thing. Checking in about boundaries and how everyone is feeling is always happening. In my experience it happens much more than in a monogamous relationship but that may just be because my experiences with monogamy were when I was a teenager and no one really knows how to have a solid relationship yet when you are that young.
For context, I've been with my partner for 24 years. Originally there was a third person in the relationship but she decided polyamory wasn't her thing and chose to leave us (understandable and I hope she's well). There hasn't been any involvement with anyone else since then but neither of us are opposed to it. We both still identify as poly and would welcome other people in our relationship should we find someone and have the time to build a healthy relationship with them but that just hasn't occurred. Even though it's been decades since our relationship had another person in it we still often talk about our current feelings and boundaries on the matter.
The fact that the couple who started out with ethical non-monogamy isn't having ongoing conversations about these things is a huge red flag. Saying "well, we talked about it once a few years ago" is not a healthy way to deal with ethical non-monogamy or polyamory. It's not a healthy thing in any relationship.
So I have constant conversations with my monogamous partner about boundaries, but I also know couples that don't. I also know poly couples who suck at communicating and really only communicate at couples' therapy. Communication is key in all relationships and while many poly people are great at it, many are not. My husband and I are the monogamous people in a friend group of mostly poly people. One friend who's poly has a contract with her husband because they want the basic terms laid out in writing. They update it at least once a year. Other friends don't communicate that they are poly upon getting into relationships then spring it on a new partner.
@@bboops23 I definitely believe that communication is key in any healthy relationship. Ongoing conversations about boundaries and all of that should be standard no matter what. I just haven't seen it in many of the monogamous relationships I was in or that I've witnessed around me. I'm glad that you have that. We are also the only poly people in most of our friend groups so I'm really only able to judge on what we have. I realize that gives me a biased view.
@@lindsayosterhoff2459 oddly I'm the opposite. I've met significantly more poly couples than monogamous. Most of my friends are poly and aside from two groups, the rest are a mess. One can't keep a stable relationship, another constantly lies that he's poly until after he starts dating his partners, another barely talks to each other and they are constantly on the verge of divorce, and another has said monogamy is a mistake meanwhile they have never been in a relationship and they are only into polyamory because they use it to get laid by the insecure partners they meet at cons. Every one of the monogamous people I've met aside from one is in a stable, healthy, communicative relationship, mind you this is like 4 couples. One person just got out of an abusive relationship and tried to communicate constantly. The sample size I have for poly couples is much larger and literally all but two are a mess. One person is likely going to marry one of his partners since the other is already married.
@@lindsayosterhoff2459ahaha, yes I've seen the same with my friend groups, plus my own experiences of monogamy vs polyamory felt like they were at complete opposite sides with it - all the monogamous relationships were always such a mess, then after exploring polyamory even if the partners didn't work out it was always on good terms & spoken about /remained friends. I think a large part of it isn't monogamy per se, more so toxic monogamy culture that has been continuously forced
Thats make sense a bisexual in a monagamus relationship is not gay ore lesbian based one the partners sex and a hetro- ore gay person is not asexuell if they are not currently sexual active.
First one reminds me of my ex and her family. Not the pranks but the "you're too sensitive" thing. It was a toxic marriage and I'm out now, but being made to apologize for being offended is the worst.
I’ve been waiting for episode two! Story one: NTD. The Christmas after I had my youngest baby (he was born Dec 11) I was hosting. My sister’s family came over. I’d shopped early for everyone’s presents, including my husband and kids, because I knew wouldn’t have time later given I was 9 mos pregnant. I sat there holding my newborn watching while everyone opened gifts expecting eventually someone to find one with my name and bring it over. The pile got smaller and smaller…nothing. I didn’t even get a candy cane in my stocking. I. Got. Nothing. Worse, no one noticed. I didn’t say anything at the time, because what is there to say? I didn’t want to bring the day down given I was hosting and just buried myself in making Christmas dinner. Everyone had forgotten me, including my mom, including both sisters, including my husband. I honestly have trauma from this, because it opened my eyes to how badly neglected I was in my relationship, and how I just wasn’t seen at all. Three years later I’m happily getting a divorce. And still, I honestly think all the ‘joke’ gifts and gaslighting afterwards would have been worse.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, that sounds awful. Did they at least apologize to you?
It is a trope and it’s so, so stupid. Cishet men: do better. @nergregga Thank you, he eventually did apologize, and still apologizes even this year when I’m sensitive because of a lot of PTSD from that time. He’s promised that as long as he’s alive I’ll never be forgotten at Christmas again. Sadly this was tip of the iceberg of much deeper problems, so we are amicably divorcing. This was definitely an inciting incident for that decision though. Some neglect in a relationship is just too deep to get over.
My birthday is Dec 1, my kid's is Dec 13. The year the baby was born most of my birthday and Christmas presents were for the baby. Like not even stuff for me to use as a new mom, but straight up toys/movies etc. for the baby. Made me feel like now I had a kid, I no longer mattered. 😢
@@reneplant6253 yuuuuuuuup I know that feeling well. I am so, so sorry.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and I wish you a very happy life post-divorce. You matter and you deserve to be seen!
"Give an inch, take a biscuit" Shaaba might be thinking about the children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie"
The last story feels like outright gaslighting and bulldozing against OP, the trips and general attitude (let alone the "fantasy of having kids with her") is the furthest thing from a *friends-with-benefits* relationship, and has more to do with them shoving their ACTUAL relationship together down OP's throat until he either accepts it or bows out of the relationship altogether (which is where I'm leaning)...the BF needs to stop deflecting and be *honest* about where he sees his relationship with OP going, because the level of outright disrespect he's shown to him thus far is STAGGERING 😿
Completely agree and I'm surprised more comments haven't picked up on this, that story made me so so mad for OP. The "being loud in bed" when OP is right there especially.
@@crossbowss not sure if I'm reading too much into it since I'm not personally acquainted with any of them, but it also smacks of using OP's disability against him (BF is clearly weaponizing his own rampant sex drive as an excuse to get a "normal healthy" partner)...BF is now in a good ole CisHet relationship that he can flaunt publicly, and soon enough OP isn't going to fit into the space in any way, so by advice to OP would be to cut your losses and try to get a different living situation set up
@@crazycatchick4111 I really wish I could see the best in people involved like Shaaba and Jamie, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if ableism and transphobia played a part in this. Nothing about this situation makes me think this is polyamory, and I feel like thinking about it in this way complicates how pretty much everybody is talking about OP's situation (in a sense of not wanting to further discriminate against poly people). The way OP talks about it really seems like their relationship was over the moment BF got involved with the roommate.
This is just pure speculation though. I really hope OP can get out of this situation safely.
@@crossbowss totally agree, my radar immediately went up when OP had to explain that his disability was the driving factor of their BF getting his freak on elsewhere, all while under the banner of being *poly* when in fact BF is most likely just a hot dog and OP didn't want to breakup, and every single action on BF's part afterwards was a direct slap to the face of OP and what he thought their relationship was, all during a truly turbulent time in his life (no doubt deliberately chosen on BF's part as a means to further destabilize OP into compliance)...I genuinely hope that OP can find somewhere else to live and in time a partner who loves and respects him the way he deserves
It's easy to say "have a conversation," but I don't think it's going to do any good in this case. It sounds like OP's boyfriend has more or less abandoned him for this new partner.
Here is something that I found odd with the tattoo story: Did the fiancé not know about the matching tattoos before this? Because if this was the first time hearing the meaning of his wrist tattoo - the first time she knew it was connected to his ex at all - I would totally get her reaction. That seems like information you should not withhold in a relationship. Like my partner has multiple tattoos and I know the general meaning of all of them and I also know that the one on his chest is also connected to his ex. I knew that from the beginning and could talk to him about it. I think that makes a diffference. Sure she can't tell him to remove it either way, but I do feel her emotions would be very understandable if that was the first she heard about it.
Yes, this is what I was thinking about the tattoo story. OP shouldn't be telling fiance to remove the tattoo - I suppose it's always within a person's right to -ask-, respectfully - "Hey, I feel a certain way about this, is it something you'd ever consider doing for me?" Like imo it's not any more unreasonable to ask a partner to remove a tattoo than it is to ask a partner to *get* a tattoo with/for you. But if the answer is no, the answer is no, full stop.
At the same time though, if OP is just finding out about this deeper meaning to this tattoo now (regardless of whether she found it by snooping or not), I could see how that would lead to feelings of betrayal, and of wondering if there are other things he hasn't told her, too. In which case the tattoo is the symbol of the problem more than the problem itself still, but in a different way.
At the same time, OP says they were friends when fiance was dating his ex. So it does strain credulity a slight bit to think that she wouldn't have known anything about the tattoo/its meaning at all prior to this point. Especially somewhere like a wrist where it would be visible at least part of the time.
Overall, OP still YTA for the overblown insistence of the removal of the tattoo. But, as Shaaba and Jamie said, lots of talking needs to happen before getting married - maybe this is one of the things that they need to talk about.
My half-sister has become very environmentally aware in the past few years, so when we do Christmas at my dad’s, it’s often a case of reusing old bags and containers; I make origami cards and gift card holders to try and reduce the use of tape. Quite often, we’ll use whatever box has accumulated over the year as a way to make the gift “bigger” than it is.
One year, I used my Switch carrying cases as something to “unwrap,” telling my siblings I wanted them back afterwards. 😂 If using a random box, we will all tease and joke that the person got that for Christmas until the box is opened to see the actual gift.
I can’t imagine receiving “gift” after “gift” where you think you’re getting something but it was actually gifted to someone else. 12 separate times, and in the end, you didn’t get anything you were hoping for. And I don’t say that to mean someone is entitled to certain things at Christmas, but if you’re asked for a list and the family goes out of their way to gift those things to other people and mock you with the boxes and even a book cover? That’s just mean-spirited. Not the drama, OP, and I hope you don’t have to spend more time with them than necessary.
My family too reuses box’s and especially gift bags - they’re usually food boxes like juice, snacks or cleaning products not anything that’s ’expensive or gift like’ but I totally have crossed out someone’s name over an old gift bag and writing over the top the other person’s name and told them “only look at the top name” jokingly. We all find this standard and nobody blinks an eye at nappy boxes or beer boxes (they’re really the prefect ‘gift size’) so I wouldn’t even think twice about opening something like that and not finding beer, nappies or cleaning products. I saying that, one year my parents wrapped up an iPad box and gave it to me and my sister while making a whole big deal out of this ‘expensive, fragile’ gift. My sister had been asking for an iPad for at least 8 years at that point, was starting highschool who had recommended one and there’d been a huge serious discussion about one in the months up to Christmas to the point of me and her signing a contract that if we were to get an iPad that we’d maintain grades, stick to time limits etc. So I imagine my sister thought this was the year. She opened the box and saw the pristine ipad box (my parents even shrink wrapped it and put a book inside instead of an actual iPad). When she saw the box she started crying and was thanking my parents and hugging them, telling them how she was going to stick to the contract and ‘make them proud of her’ grades in school. Her hands were shaking so hard it took her like 10 mins to get the shrink wrap off but of course when she opened the box it was a maths textbook and not an iPad. She was so shocked and she just sat there sobbing when she realised my parents were laughing and joking that she’d ’really brought’ the joke and how funny it was. Neither her nor I found I funny at all and I spent the rest of Christmas trying to console her and eventually she ended up asking me to open all the rest of her presents because she “didn’t want to find another present that was a trick” she was around 13-14 at the time and I remember how shocked and horrified at my parents how they’d lied to her and sat there egging her on, saying things to make her think it was actually an iPad and then silently sitting while she struggled with the shrink wrap without thinking maybe the joke had gone too far. Literally every single Christmas they bring it up as a ‘funny joke’ and over 10 years later my sister and I still don’t find it funny at all, I remember for years afterwards I was petrified of thinking any of my gifts were actually what was in the box/what it looked like and I can’t imagine how it was for my sister who was the brunt of the joke. It’s only funny if everyone is laughing and there is such a thing as too far and this joke passed that mark eons ago!
@@katrinadaly1755 - Oh my gosh, your poor sister. That’s such a cruel thing to do to someone, getting their hopes up while they are crying from the excitement. It’s such a breach of trust; I don’t blame either of you for feeling betrayed and unable to feel safe believing the box anymore. If anyone in my family experienced that level of upset because of a box misunderstanding, I would have been falling over myself with apologies; it’s such a painful feeling to have your hopes crushed, never mind when they’ve been artificially heightened for a joke.
I'm not poly, but based on conversations I've had with poly people- sleeping with someone you live with without clearing it with the other partner first is a huge no go. And I completely agree that it's wrong that it sounds like he told their roommate they might be able to do a triad before he talked to the partner. It makes it far more uncomfortable for OP to say no.
When it comes to monogamy, as a trans man myself. I thought about letting my partner seek sexual pleasure from others as I was too dysphoric to provide it. He turned around and told me he loves only me and prefers to wait until I’m ready so it’ll be extra special. Especially when I’m fully transitioned. We agree that because we’re a young couple we can still experience emotionless flirting with others, but in terms of sexual activity, he dated me knowing my gender and preferences, hence why he respects me and doesn’t want to sleep with others.
Thank you SOOOO much for adding the typed out story window! My poor audio comprehension is very pleased! 😻😽
Same!!!
I read that as "audio compression". That's what I get for not wearing my glasses lol. Same though!
Came here to say this. Very very sames.
I would be thinking about stopping contact with that family. It feels gaslighty. I would have been pissed if all the presents I got were jokes.
I hope she doesn't live with them.
@@alexf225 That was exactly what I was thinking.
Emotionally cheating isn't just planning to get together, it's having an intimate emotional connection behind your partner's back.
A good indicator, is if you hide it from your partner, it's probably cheating.
Also you shouldn't get in a new ship while still moving on or healing, bc that just hurts the next partner.
As someone who is demisexual, while I personally feel there’s absolutely no excuse for any type of cheating, it would hurt me 100 times more if my partner had an intimate emotional connection to someone else than if they had a sexual relationship with that person. I think because sexual attraction is so rare for me it’s something that is inherently hard for me to understand and feel, so I can understand how my experience with sexual attraction isn’t the norm so therefore less ‘relatable’ in a way where I would feel hurt. On the other hand, because any sort of strong emotional bond has to be present in a relationship for me, it’s something I highly value and treasure, so if someone was emotionally cheating with their thoughts, activities and time spent with someone else that would hurt me more than anything else because it’s the emotional connection that is the key to the relationship from my perspective. Like I could imagine being absolutely hurt and betrayed if my partner was going on dates and out for drinks with someone to get closer to someone or said that they had strong feelings for someone else in that way but if my partner had cheated on me sexually, I wouldn’t get mad seeing them kissing someone else or having sex with someone else because of their actions or jealousy in that way, I’d break up with them because I’d be hurt that emotionally they didn’t care enough about our relationship/my feelings to the point they had actually cheated (not because of the sexual activity itself) if that makes sense.
@@katrinadaly1755 I totally get you. I am demi as well and this is exactly how I feel
I am so happy with the changes you made compared to the first episode. It is really helpful for me to have the text on screen as you read it and I feel like there was way less digression while reading out the posts. I could follow really well and enjoyed the vibe of this episode a lot!
shaaba: freud, get in here!
me, a psych major and vehement freud hater: noooooooo!
Freud is the worst
If the guy from story #2 is THAT invested in a tattoo that he got with a girl who: A-wouldn't marry him and B: CHEATED on him, is he really over her? Why is he engaged to someone else? He should not even want to be reminded of that girl.
That first family is the pits! Not one decent gift and then be told to basically suck it up! I know where I wouldn't be spending next Christmas.
This is a textbook case of an unwanted child needing to GTFO of that family dynamic ASAP.
Always feel that if joke gifts are decide to be played at least it should be the actual gift or something better. The best "joke gift" i ever recieved was unwrapping a box for a shoe rack in a gift exchange that turned out to be super cool multitool that i have had since
Tattoos cost a lot of money to remove, require many sessions, and the process is EXTREMELY painful. My aunt has been getting a tattoo removed for TWO YEARS due to an ink allergy (so it’s not like she’s dragging her feet) and isn’t completely done yet. An ultimatum where you insist they get a tattoo removed is in some ways (such as time investment, pain of recovery, etc.) a more extreme expectation than asking them to get an elective cosmetic surgery.
Honestly, like you said, maybe the barrage of joke gifts in the first post was a genuine mistake, a result of poor planning. However, the 3 points that make me think it's not only *not* OP causing drama and in fact just meanness on the part of the family is 1) none of the gifts were followed up by the actual gift - laptop stayed in that bag for the other person, book wasn't handed over to replace the dictionary, etc. So the gifts had *been given* in that same room, just not to her. 2) The family completely steamrolled and devalued OP's feelings and attempt to communicate. 3) They doubled-down on making her hurt out as trivial or unimportant, which isn't how you treat a loved one, not to even mention the emotional manipulation and name-calling over the course of several days. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that this is standard procedure for the family, given how convinced OP was after only a few days that she wasn't entitled to her feelings, being heard, or being treated with respect, or at least equal care at the rest of the family. I hope she is feeling secure in the knowledge that she deserves better from people in her life, and I'm glad her boyfriend and his family seems to be clearing that bar.
Storie 1 : I can relate to OP. A little too much. Oops.
Storie 2 : I agree with you guys like 1000%. You hit the nail on that one. That woman is possessive & jealous. Red flags all over. That being said... I won't judge whoever did this because I don't really have stromg feelings about it, but I find it a bit of a gamble to get couples tattoos... You're taking a risk for it not to work in the long run & you having a physical reminder of that person forever. If you don't care & see it as "it's fine because either way, this person is part of my history.", then sure, but if you know within yourself that you will not be able to see it that way if it doesn't work out then maybe don't get that kind of tattoo. Of course, if you chose to have a couple tattoo, good for you, no judgment, I have a friendship tattoo with ny bffs from HS so I get you there, just make sure you will not regret it later.
Storie 3 : I have a poly friend (my roommate) & I learned from her that for a triad to be functional & ethical, it has to be 3 three-way street. Aka, both partners fall for the 3rd one. Otherwise, if it's a couple adding on a 3rd person, what happens is that the 3rd person becomes the 3rd wheel as the original couple gets couple privilege, which sucks for the 3rd person. And what we've seen with Mer, if the partner adds another to the relationship unexpectedly, the original couple will deteriorate & the first partner will become the 3rd wheel. Aka, a triad is very hard to make work. It's not impossible, but there is a very specific way to make it ethical & what happened to Mer is not it at all. I can hear my friend cringe at this one...
I keep reading the podcast title as '1800s drama' and then being sorely disappointed that this isn't about some juicy historical drama nonsense even though I watched last ep and know that it's not at all that. Still very good though, keep up the lovely work of being wholesome and trying to help.
Last one: Boy run. You don't need this.
Trigger warning: Gaslighting
This happened to me. My SO had a very high drive as well and constantly talked about FWB and Poly. I said I think poly is beautiful but not for me since I know I have very low self esteem and didn't think I was strong enough mentally. I finally gave in after a year of this and low and behold one of our FWB they fell in love with practically instantly. I was happy at the time and liked the person and was included in thruple stuff from time to time but things really sucked when we moved in together after a year. They suddenly would both make jokes about me and make fun of the outfits I wore. In fights with my SO, I always hoped our new partner would help since I had felt the fights were scary and unfair, instead they sided with my SO even if my SO later admitted being wrong. I didn't realize at the time but as much as I wanted to preform in bed I basically had zero trust for our new partner and constantly had to leave and had to either blast music from the headphones or listen to them loudly without anywhere to go. This dynamic got worse over years and years. I broke up with our partner about 5 or 6 years in because they were horribly unpleasant and would never apologize or try while having the audacity to ask me to hug them more. Also my SO wanted to continue sleeping with other people and pushing boundaries around it and saying I never set those boundaries in the first place. 2 to 3 years later of just the partner being even worse, my SO gave me an ultimatum that I had to be better or we'd divorce. I had seen around 7 therapist and psychiatrist over the years to "fix" myself for the both of them - and both did nothing except for saying it was never enough. Finally my SO said I had improved so much and they could never leave me. 2 WEEKS LATER, their partner, my ex, said they couldn't live in the house with me and to choose. SO chose them.
I am glad they did because I am so much better without them. My point being is they are not treating you right - they aren't making you feel safe and will continue to do so. You deserve so much more. If the new partner and them are okay with doing that in your home without absolutely making sure you feel as comfortable as possible and are in no way hurting from this experience - they do not care for you like they should and they are not worth an ounce of you.
PS: They married in secret a year after the divorce was final. But They lost most of their friends so that's the icing that tastes so delicious haha
Last story: not the drama. Poor Mer - they are not respecting his boundaries, period. He gave them space to pursue a defined relationship, rather than saying a straight no, and his partner is pushing far past those. Some of this may be salvageable if the partners agree on their boundaries that were not previously defined (I doubt that they had previously had a boundary about sex in the house, because they had not previously considered housemates as sexual partners). Boundaries have to be continually reflected on and updated. The kids thing and a triad though - I agree that these things need to come from the primary couple outward, not backward into the primary couple (once you are a triad +, that dynamic should shift to equal respect). I don't think asking is the wrong play, but OP's partner has crossed their boundaries and agreements multiple times. In any situation where a partner wants kids and the other partner doesn't (whether that's someone changing their mind or misunderstanding), it can be very heartwrenching - sometimes there are compromises and sometimes it's an end point for relationships which are otherwise outstanding. And I think that's where this is for OP - he and his partner need to have frank talks about what they both want, and if OP doesn't want a triad, that's legit, but it doesn't sound like OP's partner is on the same page. My view is the partner wants to have his cake and eat it too - or doesn't want to hurt OP's feelings, but this continual disregard of established boundaries is hurtful. I would advise OP to walk now, because the partner does not seem capable of ENM, but that's a complicated decision OP has to think on.
Give the biscuit, take the brunch😂
I used to prank my sister for gifts but always with the real gift being better than the expectations I set up. Like one year I told her I got her a Nutcracker knowing she would not want a Nutcracker. I did get her a Nutcracker but it came with a gift she loved. She had a good laugh that the Nutcracker thing was true and loves and still has the gift.
Story 2: YTD. Different situation, I’ve been married for almost 18 years and am getting divorced. I asked for the divorce, I wasn’t cheated on or left. My ex and I have matching tattoos we call our “family tattoo” on our upper forearm. It’s his last name in braille, my last name in braille, and the names of all our kids and two blank spaces for miscarriages. I also have his initials tattooed on my ring finger, and he has a tattoo of his wedding ring. Even though things ended for really bad reasons, he is my family and we are committed to coparent together and remain friends. We intend to always be in each other’s lives. I wouldn’t be sad if he removed his, but I have no intention of removing mine. I hope to date again one day, and I would consider it a red flag if any future partner had a problem with my tattoos. Like Jamie said, my body art is like a journal of my life. Keeping those tattoos have nothing to do with my feelings, because any feelings besides familial love faded a long time ago. But they have everything to do with my journey to who I am at this moment. YTD.
I love the idea of a braille family tattoo
This is a really great example. Thank you for sharing. I hope everything’s going well for you🙂
Ooh, I've seen those guys. They say they are into "ethical non-monogamy" but just because they think that justifies whatever they want to do with no boundaries and it's the partner that's being a prude if they disagree. Mer needs to run and probably so does the suddenly-not-monogamous flatmate.
Really appreciate that you made it a point to speak about ethically non-monogamous relationships with openness and understanding! I'm in an open relationship and it's frustrating to get so many judgy remarks from others. Totally agree with your take on the last story. Even if Mer were fully on board with his partner and housemate's relationship, the partner would still be sh*tty for how they're going about it. Not including Mer in conversations that directly affect him, implementing rules up that hadn't been discussed, etc.
I will now be saying "give an inch, take a biscuit".
It's so funny because when you started talking about biscuits you summoned my cat, Biscuits (because he kneads/makes biscuits), and he left at the end of the video and then Jamie said "bye Biscuits" 😂
The last story sounds like the partner wants to just be in a relationship with the woman, not with OP.
Literally, it just sounds like he's trying to not-so-subtly transition from being with Mer to being with the flatmate and is just labelling it as polyamory in order to get away with it, without even understanding what healthy polyamory entails. Couple this with the absolute lack of concern for how traumatic this must be for OP with all those specific acute stressors, and you got yourself another cis guy misusing polyamory for his own selfish gain and shirking responsibility for his actions to those around him.....
For the third story, more conversations need to be had and quickly before more tension gets between OP and his partner. The terms of the relationship are being breached, which isn’t healthy for OP to continue being in. The partner might not realize he’s breaking those boundaries, hence the need for new conversations, but he still needs to take responsibility for not upholding the terms.
I'm involved in a somewhat complicated Polyamorous family situation (5 people total over 3 countries and 2 continents). There's so much communication and talking out everyone's feelings and situations that it would be ridiculous to most monogamous people. The amount of stigma and judgement is why we don't come out to more than just close friends (no bio families as they're already stretched with accepting the 2 same sex marriages we had in 2022). We're always up for respectful discussion if anyone wants more information on our relationship dynamic
Since you have a lot of experience regarding communication in a relationship I would love to know, what’s your best advice for people in relationships where communication is not very good, how do you improve? Preferably both from a talking and listening perspective 😊
@@WalkedWithWolves I know you didn't ask me directly, but I have some advice, if you'd like/would find it helpful. My experience with communication and poly/relationships is not exactly the same as the commenter you asked but I've navigated my fair share of tricky situations in relationships, plus honestly over two decades of customer service experience helps with communication a lot.
One thing that kind of underpins most good communication, especially listening: Realizing that everyone has different perspectives, expectations, and assumptions about things. This can be from very small things like someone using a word that has two meanings and they mean it one way but you take it another (for example: I asked someone once "What do you think about this activity?" because I wanted their opinion on it, and they interpreted as an invitation to do the activity, because they'd always been taught to ask "What would you think if we did xyz?"). It can also be much bigger things, like different values. For a (non-extreme) example: if someone is operating on an underlying assumption that everyone will always try to win at a game, they might not understand someone else who has a perspective that winning and losing doesn't matter but just playing fairly is the important thing. More extreme examples of value differences are things like religion, bigotry, political views, moral codes, and so on.
I find that if I tackle most conversations from a "benefit of the doubt" perspective, i.e. assuming that the other person generally means well and is not trying to be rude, mean, make my day harder, hurt me, etc., it is much more productive. And as soon as things start to feel tense or like we're not on the same page, I try to take a step back and analyze what assumptions I might have been making that could have been wrong.
It obviously takes a lot of practice and you're not always going to get that last part right, even with lots of practice, but the more you communicate with the same person, the easier it gets. Some tactics that support this underpinning strategy:
*Repeat things back if you are the listener - try to paraphrase to help make sure you understood. If they say, no that's not it, ask them to repeat themselves in a different way, until eventually you both circle around to the same understanding of what is being said.
*Conversely, if you're speaking, and someone asks for clarification or otherwise seems confused, try rephrasing in addition to repeating.
*Ask questions. Be specific about what you did and didn't understand. "Okay, I heard that you want to make plans for dinner, but are you saying you want to talk about it now, or after you finish work in an hour?"
*Take breaks if you need to. "I'm getting overwhelmed, can you give me a minute to process my feelings?" "I think I'm tired and would like to sleep and resume this conversation tomorrow, is that okay?"
*In the case of fights/arguments, I find that the difference between a fight and a discussion is whether the focus is on blame or on problem-solving. If you view your conversation partner as a collaborator trying to accomplish a specific goal with you rather than an adversary to overcome, it's easier to stay calm and resolve any miscommunications. (In other words, conversations are cooperative, not competitive.) This doesn't mean you can't discuss the "what went wrong," but again - the goal is to learn and grow, not to point fingers. Diplomatic tools like sticking to neutral facts over feelings or accusations or making "I" statements can be helpful here.
There's also lots to say about different mediums of communication - paying attention to tone of voice, body language, facial expressions, and so on can help you get a bigger picture of what someone is trying to communicate. Everyone has different communication styles (levels of sarcasm, sense of humor, preferences for text or voice, etc.) and as you get to know a person better, you'll learn theirs and how to read them better. While you're getting to know this about them, ask them lots of questions - "When you say xyz, are you being sarcastic?" "What were you feeling when you sent that message?" For close personal relationships, learning about things like past trauma, neurodivergence, mental health struggles, and general life stresses can help you understand their perspective and communication style.
Also learn these things about yourself - why do you communicate the way you do? What are your preferences for medium? Do you tend to resort to humor when you're feeling awkward? Are you likely to lash out if you're feeling hurt? Knowing what your triggers and stressors are can help you communicate more clearly.
And as we've all learned watching Shaaba's (and Jamie's) channels - context is everything. Advice is not one-size-fits-all - hopefully some of these things help you generally but if you have specific situations you need help navigating, feel free to ask wherever you feel is appropriate to ask for help.
ETA: Since conversations are naturally a multi-player endeavor, you also need to remember to give yourself grace when they go badly. You can try to improve your communication skills as much as possible, of course, but if the other party is refusing to communicate with you clearly, you can't make them. You can do your best to work around them but there are always limits and it's important to give yourself credit for what you can do and be forgiving of what you can't.
I'm more sympathetic to the OP who wants her fiance to cover the tattoo. It sounds like the tattoo isn't the problem, just a symptom. It sounds like she believes that he's still hung up on his ex. And however she found the chat conversation, something about the "physical scar that you left on me" line makes me think that her fears might be justified. Possibly this is manifesting around the tattoo because OP doesn't want to have the very real, and very needed conversation around whether the fiance is still hung up on the ex.
When I first saw the messages I thought it sounded pretty bad. I don't think it needs to be as explicit as "I still think about you all the time". That kind of thing can be implied
@@alex_blue5802 Right? "the physical scar you left on me" is pretty loaded language. I would guess the fiance has some feelings about the ex that he hasn't processed or gotten over. It doesn't excuse her behavior in going through his phone, or justify taking away his bodily autonomy. But when I've had those kinds of intense feelings of jealousy/distrust in a relationship, it was my intuition telling me something. I think that's what's probably happening her, and I think OP is afraid of what the answer will be if she has this conversation.
@@bethgoltermann9231 and then he tells OP that he doesn't have any feelings for her. Jamie and Shaaba were thinking of a fond recollection of the past, but if that's all it was I'd think he could be honest about it. It seems like a red flag for him to be saying he's over his ex but then messaging her such loaded language behind his partner's back.
I have heard "give an inch, take a biscuit." it was on this podcast I listen to on TH-cam called 1800Drama
In Shaaba's defense, there is a book called 'If You Give A Mouse A Cookie' that explains exactly that premise. The mouse keeps asking for more and more. Maybe that's where the confusion lies (remembering that cookies are called biscuits in the British English vernacular).
The biscuit conversation has be rolling 😂😂i love you guys. I feel like the "biscuit" got logged in your brain because of the "give a mouse a cookie" story. Which to be fair is entirely about the concept of "give an inch they take a mile." So my ADHD brain is right there with you 😂❤️
5 LITRES A DAY OF THIRST TRAPS? Yes, we love the representation 😂
😂😂
For the first story, I feel the family were absolutely horrid. Imagine if you removed all the joke gifts from the scenario. You would end up with OP not getting any. If my family all got each other gifts and none for me I would be very hurt. OPs situation may be even more hurtful because she actually thought that she had been given gifts when she hadn't.
The tattoo one really gave me a lot of food for thought. When I was 19, I got a matching tattoo with someone who was just generally bad news and in the last few years I have been very much unpacking how much of bad news he was and know that for my own peace I need to get the tattoo covered-up. Some of the things you said about always having a connection with a person you have a matching tattoo with just further reinforced how much I need to be able to put this in my rear view.
On a more positive note, it also reminded me of how much of a kind soul my husband is that he has never made me feel like my tattoos are anything but my own but he is also incredibly supportive of how much getting a cover-up is a priority for me and thus for us.
My birthday last year, I woke up earlier than the rest of my family and decided to make coffee, enough for everyone to have some- as my Dad usually does. I left it brewing and both my parents got up and started getting breakfast. I went to get my coffee and they had drunk all of it - they claimed that they thought I had had mine despite the plunger on the coffee not having been pushed down. They then proceeded to turn the water off in the house to fix a tap meaning I couldn't shower and therefore couldn't go out without even warning me or letting me know before they did so - note this was not an emergency fix or a leak. This was after I had mentioned wanting to go out in the morning/early afternoon the previous night. I hadn't even brushed my teeth. They then told me I was unreasonable and ungrateful because I told them that they should have warned me before turning the water off and that was a basic consideration and was angry that I had to spend half my birthday feeling gross, dirty, smelly and actually disgusting given I had started my period 2 days prior.
If you want to learn more about consensual non monogamy, I recommend the book More Than Two. There were a good chunk of red flags mostly stemming from non-communication in that last story, though.
Or the latest edition of the ethical slut 😊 the last one was a bit of a headache, ahaha, if people are already in an established relationship that started monog, they really need to read up on and explore the foundations they want to lay first and work out the finer things first, instead of just agreeing to a basic one and just jumping in 😅
40:00 Hi! Me and my current boyfriend are both poly and on the asexual spectrum (not currently having a poly relationship) and wanted to explain a bit clearer the term :)
Polyamorous only refers to romantic stuff. Poly can be closed (just like a monogamous relationship, but instead of two you're three, four, five, whatever) or open (you are in a relationship but you can have other partners that aren't related with each other). You can also have a closed poly relationship where you aren't all with each other (for example, a V relationship, where one person is with the other two but the other two can be friends for example).
When you're talking about sex, it's an open relationship. That means, you can have sex with other people outside of the relationship.
It's really important to separate sex from romantic attraction! For example, one of my best friends is in a poly relationship with two other guys. They're all three with each other and they're in the ace spectrum, and it's a closed relationship. Me and my partner are polyam, and we would never have sex with other people that we don't know! Also we have a closed relationship, and from the moment we are monogamous but we could have another partner in the relationship
I tried to give my brother a joke gift (with his real present hidden in another room). It was a calendar of dogs pooping. Turns out, he absolutely loved it 🤣. So my brother got two good Christmas presents from me this year instead of one.
The first one is so mean! My Nan does kind of the opposite to what happened in this story, she often puts our main/ most expensive gift in a box from an everyday item, e.g. in a biscuit box. When we open the present we then have to go for the thought process of "is it actually biscuits or is there something different in the box?" We've kind of all gotten used to it now, but there's still a chance it could actually be biscuits!
oooo that tattoo story is really tricky for me actually! im trying to picture myself as the girlfriend and i think i would feel similarly, i get tattoos are part of your story but why would he want to keep a tattoo that serves as a constant reminder of someone who hurt him AND makes my new partner who im going to marry feel uncomfortable. i also agree that i need to know what the tattoo is, if it work as a stand alone tattoo that makes it very tricky, but if it is a coupley thing... id probably end the relationship if im being entirely honest but i dont think either party are bad people
Shana’s mirth and Jamie’s affectionate exasperation during the metaphor discussion was very entertaining. 😂
Story 3 made me feel really icky. It felt to me like guy partner was with mer and saw him as a woman, but when mer started transitioning, partner wanted something else. Especially with the talk of children. It felt like guy partner was invalidating mer's gender identity in a way.
For the polyam one, I think a lot of us in the community would define polyamory specifically as multiple romantic relationships (which are often, but not necessarily, sexual). It sounds like the OP was expecting more of an open relationship, which included sex but not the romantic connections, and although they both come under the umbrella of ethical nonmonogamy, they're very different styles of relationships. A lot of people use terminology differently though, which makes it even more important to have thorough conversations before starting a nonmonogamous relationship and on an ongoing basis.
I've been polyam for about ten years and i've seen lots of cases where people start with an open relationship or as swingers and then one partner catches feelings for someone else and they haven't talked about what they would do in that situation. If you're going outisde the boundaries of what has been agreed, you're essentially cheating and things can get very messy very quickly.
We also talk a lot about something called "new relationship energy" or NRE, which is that rush you get when you connect with someone new, especially in the first few month. It's easy to get carried away with NRE and you can make decisions which damage more established relationships, such as neglecting the wants and needs of existing partners. This could be partly what the OP's partner is experiencing and contributing to them neglecting OP and wanting to spend all their time with the new person. Though it certainly doesn't excuse the behaviour.
Relationships also get exponentially more complicated the more people you add. When you have two people, there is only one relationship to manage and it is *relatively* easy to talk about your boundaries, expectations, feeling etc. When you have three people, you have four relationships (the reationships between 1/2, 2/3, and 3/1, and the relationship of the triad (where all three people are dating) or V (where one peoson is dating two other people) as a whole) which all have to be considered separately. It can be hard to prepare yourself for the level of extra work involved when you've never experienced it before!
Ultimately, OP can't control what their partner decides to do. They can talk to them about their feelings and if their partner wants to persue a polyam a relationship with this other person then they can choose to stay, in which case there are a lot of excellent books on polyamory (personally i recommend "The Ethical Sl*t" as a good starting point, if anyone is interested) which they should all read to help them manage the change in their relationship. Alternatively, they can choose to leave. If their partner decides not to persue the other relationship, then they probably need a new roommate. Bottling up feelings, by any of the parties involved, just sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Oof, posted this before the last part of the post - it got worse
The bit about it getting more complicated is so real, I always say in my heart I'm poly (I believe I could love multiple people and would be okay with my partner also being with someone else), but from a logistical standpoint I don't think I actually have the emotional energy, organizational skills etc to keep up with multiple relationships 😅
@@Link-dx1lx the logistics of ENM can certainly be a tricky thing to navigate, yes.
However, as someone who only consciously realised and accepted that no, monogamy is *not* for me 4 years ago, I've actually somehow found it *easier* to deal with things like organisational and emotional stuff than I did in the 15-ish years of attempting long-term monogamy (3 different serious relationships across that time frame, even an engagement). Perhaps it's due to the circumstances and resultant exploration, reflection, and acceptance of self throughout the journey of this revelation. Perhaps it's due to the point that there seems to be more emphasis on being on top of such things when trying to maintain healthy ENM/poly dynamics than what I had/was when trying to stick to monog. Perhaps it's a combination of both of those, and perhaps there's some other things tossed in there somewhere. Whatever the reasoning is for it, I've been finding my journeys navigating ENM/poly to be easier, and my relationships, overall, seem to be healthier. That's not to say that it's going to be that way for everyone though, and I don't think I'd be able to deal with it anywhere near this well if it wasn't for the journey of discovery that I went on (which also included non-relationship major life stuff).
Oh, I have a joke gift I got for my coworker this year. He said he needed a new processor(for his computer), so I got him a food processor. He thought it was funny. But I did get him other things he wanted. And an actual processor for his computer. I also did include a gift receipt, in case he didn't want or need a food processor.
45:42 made me so happy, ive dealt with so much doubt over my relationship with my two partners from people around me but im celebrating 4 years with them next week!
also as far as the poly relationship goes in the video, the partner is absolutely the drama, they are cheating on op and do seem manipulative. me and my partners communicate in so much detail about what we are comfortable with and regularly update each other on any changes. in poly relationships communication is more than key, it can become incredibly toxic without it and it rly seems like this is whats happening here. i hope op is okay and i wish them the best
The third story is somewhat relatable to me. I was in a monogamous relationship with my ex years ago. We had quite a few poly friends, and at some point my ex developed some feelings towards one of them. We had the discussion and I basically told him to go for it. All was cool for a year or two, they were dating and I was fine with it.
We had agreed on everything that happened, but you can't really control feelings. Eventually their feelings grew into something bigger, and suddenly they were about to break up, because they didn't see another way forward without him breaking his promises to me. I'll always be proud of recognising that as a wrong choice, since I wasn't going to ever give him everything he needed. We all moved in together for a while, until it was clear that's not going to work either, and I moved out. Should really have ended the relationship before the first move, but in the end things worked well enough, no big drama.
They're still together and have kids, and I'm happily in a monogamous relationship with my current partner, so everything is as it should. I don't regret living through that stage, but wouldn't start another poly relationship myself. It honestly works well for some, but for me there's too much to constantly adjust, compromise about, and plan for. Just not worth all the extra hassle, a two person relationship is enough work as is.
I’m an old monogamous person and have known some very fine people who were poly, but whether their own or their stories about other poly friends, I have never once seen such a relationship be successful. So I’m accepting (not that they need my approval or permission), but could never be okay with that for myself.
@@joanfregapane8683 That's perfectly fine of course 😊 It's good to know our limits, and I'll be the first one to admit that poly relationships don't suit everyone. Some not at all, and others only for a shorter period.
I've personally seen some very succesful long term poly relationships, but also some that don't last. I can't remember exactly for how long my ex has been with this other partner, but must be pushing a decade by now. I'd count that as success, since even most mono relationships don't last that long. (And they're still poly, in case it sounded like it's just him and the other partner now. At least one other long term partner in the picture.)
@@joanfregapane8683many so work out ☺️ I know many who are going still strong after decades
That was my thought about the tattoo! I feel like getting new paired tattoos would be a good compromise. I broke up with a long time friend I have known more than half my life, but I have a tattoo that is tied to her. I don't have any intention to ever remove it or assign it to someone else. She has been a big part of my life and even if we never become friends again, that doesn't erase the many years we were together. She formed a big part of who I am, an indelible mark on my soul. If someone gets jealous of that, that's a them problem and they can leave if they can't stand it. But I would also be happy to add them to it. So I would be more than happy to add them to my tattoo if they played a role in shaping who I am as well
I’ve got to say I think it’s a miss on the tattoo one. While on the one hand I don’t think it’s right to ask someone to remove the tattoo, I would seriously consider leaving if I saw that conversation. Especially if the partner’s logic is I can’t have feelings because of betrayal… because you can still be hung up on someone while the thought of them brings you a lot of pain. Even if you don’t go back to them, thinking of the “scar” they left every. Single. Day. I wouldn’t ask them to remove it, but if they didn’t do it of there own accord I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who was constantly thinking of the woman who betrayed him. I have exes who have left emotional scars, but I knew I was ready to move on when I stopped thinking of them regularly. And I definitely wouldn’t be seeking them out and asking them if they had held onto that mementos too.
Id also point out that while this conversation COULD happen between two exes are still in each other’s lives platonically, that goes against everything the ex has said. Like you don’t just remain friends with the person who betrayed you in the worst way. Nothing about that conversation seems healthy for someone about to get married to someone else.
Agree to everything except the asking to remove part.
You are allowed to ask if your partner would remove it or cover it up. They are allowed to say no.
After that it is not your place to demand that, but generally asking is not against bodily autonomy.
I listened to the podcast on Spotify and I think you should turn up the volume on Jamies mic. Listening with headphones I often had to turn the volume up when Jamie was speaking because he was a bit quieter and then turn it down when Shaaba is speaking. Love the podcast btw it’s so funny and wholesome and makes my day!!!!! ❤
For the Mer situation, I feel like gender and genital preferences have a lot to do with why the partner is looking elsewhere. Makes me wonder how deeply he has thought about Mer’s transition, and if he really respects it.
ooh, I didn't think about it first, but I also kinda don't want to assume that since it wasn't mentioned by OP
I am so glad you added the text! I sometimes seem to struggle with understanding what people are saying (some auditory processing problem), so having a written form attached helps tremendously
My brother asked for a Duster (jacket) for Christmas when he was a teenager. And my parents bought and wrapped up a feather duster for him to open. They also got him a real one though because you don't just buy all joke gifts for someone when everyone else got real gifts.
This episode has made me feel better about my own little scenario of AITD, which I don't need to get into here...but basically, it reminded me that platonic friends also need to consider each other's consent and boundaries for things, not just for intimate partners, and if they don't that's a warning sign to consider. Boundaries are hard work and I'm still learning to stick up for myself, but it is worth it in the end.
Perfect thing to listen to on a monday morning! Thanks, Shaaba & Jamie!
First story: I hate pranks. I think they’re always mean.
It’s the intro sequence for me. They really are so fun.
That Christmas one omg how heart-breaking that would have felt to open TWELEVE joke gifts and get no genuine ones AND have so many be actually gifts for other people. I hope their partner's family invite them again for the next one, I'm glad they got the book they wanted.
I fully agree with the commenter on the first story who implied the OP’s family didn’t love them.
Remember Jamie, love isn’t a feeling, it’s the actions you take.
If someone claims to love you, then purposefully hurts you, then they were lying. Even if that means they were also lying to themselves.
2:47 I need to know whether Shaaba knows about those TikTok chefs who get carried away in the kitchen.
whew, i really appreciated the polya story, because i was in a similar situation of being blindsided with a new romantic partner and i've spent nearly a decade thinking i was the drama.
You're never the drama if your partner(s) is blindsiding you when you should be having those discussions and negotiations openly and together
I think anyone would get really annoyed and tired of 12 back to back pranks that are meant to play with your emotions. Joke gifts that are made to make you feel a high and then drop to a low are emotionally taxing. Getting 12 in a row while also realizing you're being singled out for this behavior and the joke gifts weren't even for you but side products of a genuine and thought gift for someone else is lowkey cruel. I wouldn't broken down. Like the moment I got into the car with my boyfriend, I would've started crying. That's just so mean.
Seriously though! The fact you think you'd make it to the car to cry is impressive, I'd be bawling and leave the room after the 3rd or 4th prank gift lol
That's so mean and targeted!
@@PenelopeAstony I'd only make it to the car because of anxiety lol, it would be 100% dissociation the moment I noticed
@@modernghost0 Lmao! Ah yes, the one-two punch of anxiety and followed by dissociation.
Passenger seats of cars are built for dissociation, I swear.
That first one was a doozy. Such an entire insensitive family that they even thought OP getting a present on their list, 1 PRESENT, was essentially "sub tweeting" about them when they posted the book on Instagram.
That would make me rethink my entire relationship with my family members at that point.
In my family joke gifts are always done in tandem with REAL gifts. They're also extremely rare. One year we put a fake remote control tarantula in a wrapped box and gave it to my Aunt. It was hilarious but she still got her REAL gift afterwards. My brother was sent on a scavenger hunt for his gift in my grandparents house via a clue and this clue led him to a box, of which he unwrapped and found another clue. This boxed clue would happen several times until finally the last clue led him to his REAL present's location.
Imo joke gifts are in extremely poor taste on a normal basis. They're way better done, and funny, when you do them every now and then. Otherwise it's just bullying.
It’s okay to ask what the tattoo means to him, and if he wanted it removed, but it’s never okay to demand it, it’s never okay not to to have enough trust in your partner, you need to leave immediately if you are this untrusting of him.
I love what Jamie said about tattoos. A map of your life, decisions made at the time... That sounds really poetic.
This has everything I love from the solo Shaaba AITA videos (including Shaaba herself, the text on the screen so I can read along, and the juicy drama), plus things that I've always wanted and even things I never knew how much I wanted (CHAPTERS that nicely break up the stories for ease of referring back in the comments or closing the video and coming back to where you left off later, JAMIE and the lovely banter between them as well as the deeper reflections that come from people running their thoughts past each other, and LONGER EPISODES for just that much more of these two lovely people). All it's missing is some non-auto-generated closed captioning, and then *chef's kiss* perfection
A common problem with poly and open relationships is when people don't make it very clear what the expectations and boundaries for each person are, and both/all parties don't stick to those. It's literally called negotiating, and relationships can and should be renegotiated, IN ADVANCE OF ACTION, if/when something comes up that a person wants to change the dynamic of the relationship. Some people even put these things down in writing like a contract, so that neither party can be mistaken about what what and was not agreed to.
Also, if two people start in a supposed FWB relationship, and grow to have feelings for one another, and have discussed their feelings together I don't even see how it is possible to "bottle" the feelings while continuing on with the fwb and roommate parts of their relationship. What they are actually doing is pretending around OP that they're not in a romantic relationship.
The boyfriend also messed up or was dishonest about it by considering a 'triad' with someone that OP holds no attraction to, and didn't even bother to find out how they felt before bringing up that sort of thing with the new person. It's really sad.
In my experience, I've seen people do poly and open relationships well with about the same frequency as people who are in monogamous relationships, which do not have that high of a healthy success rate either. This type of negotiation/clarification that is supposed to happen in open or poly relationships would also be useful when starting monogamous relationships, by clarifying what each person cheating as, and also what they expect and what their boundaries are for the relationship.
In the Pranks, when you talk about giving the box of an item with something else inside, I can't help to recall a small prank we did to my younger brother one Christmas. He was so sure he was getting an ice hockey stick, one gift was wrapped in this shape, when he opened it, it was actually a painter's roll brush on a long stick and he was first disappointed... until my mom went to fetch his real gift: a brand new ice hockey stick, which was packed and wrapped in a long box. Then he could laugh about it, it was a harmless prank since he did get what he thought to be getting and was happy about his present.
"Give an inch, take the biscuit." I think it will catch on.
Im going to quote Luxaria from one of her videos
"Those people wearing rose colored glasses dont notice the red flags, you just see a party."
That family seems toxic, the fact that not one person owned up to what happened and apologized. Seems like they are the family from the land of narcissism. All the steps taken to 'not stir the pot' is sadly the only thing you can do. Distance and non engagement.
That first story is so sad. I think that OP should give them a taste of what she felt. Invite them to a pricey restaurant, say it's to "apologize". When they get there, make a show of how sorry you are, let them order and start to eat. Then go to the loo. Sneak out and tell the staff the others are paying. Get out, go home and send them texts telling them it was "just a prank"!
You two are so adorable! Thanks for the fantastic content!
Tattoo story: tbh from the get go, I would have some hesitation dating someone if I knew that they had a « couple » tattoo with someone else still on their body. If it would depend on the tattoo and their attitude toward it, but it’s information I’d like to know and would be considered when I decided if I want to be with that person.
0:41 - 1:00 The opening tune and editing along with it, it's such a BOP! I can't help but swing to it, and you two being wholesome in the short clips as it plays really cheers me up ❤
Shaaba, you're so nice. You want people to always work things out and looking at both sides. The first story: my impulse is to say OP was NTD and tell her she's better off without this family that obviously doesn't give two sh!ts about her feelings, and it seems like it's been this way for awhile if she'd had to learn not to react in the past.
The most significant prank I remember is that we gave a set of car keys to a family friend for his 18th Birthday, but in reality it was just a toy car. However, this person at the time hated driving due to a bad experience with a driving instructor, so an actual car was the last thing that he wanted. Prank gifts can be great in the setting, but the stuff in Story 1 is just callous.
The gift thing sounds like my family... I don't speak to them anymore. I was gaslit into believing it was me for soo long before realising they don't care about me, and if they do - hell of a way of showing it! - it is now their loss. My parents are divorced and I do speak to my dad.