The Broken Psychology Behind The Nice Guy Mentality - Dr Robert Glover
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Dr Robert Glover is a therapist, coach and an author.
Being nice is something many of us aspire to become. After all, who doesn’t want to be nice? Well Nice Guy Syndrome has been ruining the lives of many men for decades, so perhaps we should aspire to be something else.
Expect to learn what is actually wrong with being a nice guy, why men become so afraid of putting their needs first, how to stop people pleasing, why nice guys end up resentful and bitter, whether nice guys attract or repel women and much more...
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00:00 What’s Wrong With Being a Nice Guy?
05:54 The Origin of Nice Guys
15:06 Using Aggression as a Masculine Tool
22:15 Are Nice Guys More Orderly?
28:06 Why Nice Guys Keep Things Hidden
38:54 The Solution is Not to Be a Bad Guy
45:02 Alain de Botton on Nice Guys
48:37 Why Women Aren’t Complaining About Nice Guys
58:38 What Nice Guys Need to Know About Female Attraction
1:05:23 The Role of Emotional Tension
1:13:54 The Importance of Playfulness
1:25:42 How to Rehabilitate a Nice Guy
1:30:50 Your Most Formative Sexual Experience
1:39:59 Best Practices to Help Nice Guys
1:46:23 Where to Find Dr Glover
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Hello you savages. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - chriswillx.com/books/ Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 What’s Wrong With Being a Nice Guy?
05:54 The Origin of Nice Guys
15:06 Using Aggression as a Masculine Tool
22:15 Are Nice Guys More Orderly?
28:06 Why Nice Guys Keep Things Hidden
38:54 The Solution is Not to Be a Bad Guy
45:02 Alain de Botton on Nice Guys
48:37 Why Women Aren’t Complaining About Nice Guys
58:38 What Nice Guys Need to Know About Female Attraction
1:05:23 The Role of Emotional Tension
1:13:54 The Importance of Playfulness
1:25:42 How to Rehabilitate a Nice Guy
1:30:50 Your Most Formative Sexual Experience
1:39:59 Best Practices to Help Nice Guys
1:46:23 Where to Find Dr Glover
No video over 😂
54:21 Balloons :)
But yes, I think we as nice guys often, try to be nice, and hope we get rewarded that they will be nice to us as well, but it does not always work towards your favor in the end.
What does society want men to be, what kind of men are woman attracted to, they often dont align.
Great work Chris
Chris, you should ask about women who have a male best friend and how to navigate that or even guys who have a female best friend
@@YZ177 "What does society want men to be" - As a man not all that much younger than Dr. Glover, I had 2 messages drummed into my head while growing up -
Message #1 - "Always do whatever you can to help others, *even if it might not be what's best for yourself* " (Yes, the part in bold was explicitly expressed to me multiple times);
Message #2 - "Don't be a burden to others."
Dr. Glover's book was instrumental in helping me break this conditioning; I no longer tolerate relationships where the give-take is grossly imbalanced. I also no longer speak with a significant number of family members.
Don't be a nice guy. Be a GOOD MAN.
Be a bad boy tbh, you get to sleep with them easier and faster
Indeed, good over nice
@@wtfdtreats delayed gratification > immediate gratification
A lot of hard truth hits in life legacy after someone passes and there's certainly more honor in "he was a good man" compared to "he was a nice guy."
"Good man" practically beckons for tales of real impact and respect. Greater awareness of living a greater legacy now is fuel to be the good man, being the nice guy/tolerating/settling can be more blissful to the fact that life is finite as if we just endure what's soul crushing and that's it... it's not respecting the nature of being a man, really living our rich personal structure and adventurous boldness to unfold a great legacy.
@@Astral_Dusk Ain't that the truth. The impact of our actions define the story behind our legacy, for better or for worse. We are here for just a moment, but one moment has the potential to live on into perpetuity
What sucks about growing up as a nice guy is, even when you try to establish boundaries for yourself, your perception of what's fair to yourself and what isn't is so skewed because you've lived so long neglecting your own needs. So even if you feel like you're sticking up for yourself, you still might not be sufficiently.
Wisdom
One of the most aggravating things when dealing with people you knew before. Suddenly your being sensitive when you won't stand for people treating you a certain way.
Yeah never enough! I just give up
It will come with practice, eventually it will shift your frame of reference but can be very uncomfortable
With the neutral non-judgment mindset, you actually become happy, becoming appreciated by the right people and stick with them.
by the way practicing love empathy and gratitude more than 50 percent a day, increases health and immunity iof your body, your mind become more creative free, and people want to be in your company.
But the chemicals and hormones of your body improve so much which should be your goal as well, you want your mind and body to feel free healthy and happy.
Practicing happy joyful mood in 4 days increases your immune system by 50 percent.
So dont ask Should I act happy because of the society standards and trends. Ask yourself Should I be loving a good person for the health of my body and mind.
I've know this since my 20's, I'm in my 60's now. What I know is that women do not know what they want so there is no point trying to be anything but yourself.
Or that "what they want" changes with their 'feelings' of the moment.
@@FreedomfromFeminismalso changes with the monthly cycles
I reached this conclusion in my thirties it was a little painful at first but then my relationship with women improved. Lol, they give the worst advice.
@@catocall7323what conclusion?
With the neutral non-judgment mindset, you actually become happy, becoming appreciated by the right people and stick with them.
by the way practicing love empathy and gratitude more than 50 percent a day, increases health and immunity iof your body, your mind become more creative free, and people want to be in your company.
But the chemicals and hormones of your body improve so much which should be your goal as well, you want your mind and body to feel free healthy and happy.
Practicing happy joyful mood in 4 days increases your immune system by 50 percent.
So dont ask Should I act happy because of the society standards and trends. Ask yourself Should I be loving a good person for the health of my body and mind.
I learned from my mother my needs didn't matter and that asking anyone for anything was rude and selfish. She was absolutely furious that I wasn't a fully functioning adult by the time I was 4. We all walked on eggshells around her out of fear of triggering her wrath. My life was safest, the more invisible I could be. I learned not to matter. 67 now. Had a girlfriend for a little while 40 years ago. I've been lucky to have done well financially, but I've lived so long on my own I don't have the skills I'd need to be able to be in a relationship. Pretty sure it takes practice, and I never had enough options to get the "at bats" I'd need to learn.
You still have a long time to change things. My father only had me at 55. Fight!
Definitely blaming on external factors will help. Jokes aside you better step up to the plate and start swinging. Even at those pitches outside of the zone. Good luck.
On the plus side you didn't have to experience Parental Alienation, or being used and abused by predatory Women. Sometimes things just suck. You didn't miss as much as you might think. When it works, it's great from what I hear. Most of us aren't that lucky.
That sucks man, I know what it’s like to have a mom like that. I finally had enough around 30 and kicked her out of my life. Being raised that way can really put a bitter taste in your mouth about seeing other women as a prospective partner.
It took years b4 I fully understood how fundamentally different wmn are. You surely have some ppl skills. Sxx is fun. Companionship is/can be fun. Why not give it a go? Be careful not to invest too much.
Must admit, his book changed my life - being pathologically nice is destructive and might be behind some of the mental breakdowns out there.
Being more "personally selective of giving a fuck where it matters most" genuine and honest with myself and the world has improved so many aspects of life.
Engaging the bold voice of personal boundaries/values/goals/vision/heart, regardless of the varying degrees of emotional intelligence and maturity out there.
If an adult is always temperamental, eggshells, loose cannon - that lack of emotional regulation is their problem and it helps to always keep that emotional ownership mindset with confrontations to keep the boundaries firm and focused. Children require genuine mentors to provide a rite-of-passage into emotional maturity and being genuine themselves. The real man has that full spectrum of flight or fight or stand-ground self control.
Yes. Well said.
I think it extends well beyond the personal sphere too (or is the result of multiple 'nice guys' collectively). e.g. mass immigration and putting women and minorities on a pedestal is a very well known modern virtue signal by the Left, but has its own major pathologies for society.
Sounds good
Being inauthentic is draining.
What’s the name of the book ?
It took time and practice but stopping people-pleasing has been the best thing I ever did! So much happier 😃
It takes time to overcome people-pleasing tendencies; it's hard-wired in us. Good stuff
With the neutral non-judgment mindset, you actually become happy, becoming appreciated by the right people and stick with them.
by the way practicing love empathy and gratitude more than 50 percent a day, increases health and immunity iof your body, your mind become more creative free, and people want to be in your company.
But the chemicals and hormones of your body improve so much which should be your goal as well, you want your mind and body to feel free healthy and happy.
Practicing happy joyful mood in 4 days increases your immune system by 50 percent.
So dont ask Should I act happy because of the society standards and trends. Ask yourself Should I be loving a good person for the health of my body and mind.
Nice job. It’s definitely freeing.
How did you learn it ?
I'm a single mum and im constantly listening to talks like this to figure out how I can raise my son to be his best authentic masculine self. So this is a thanks from the single Mums who are conscious of trying to play both a mum & dad role and understand what 'dad influences ' we need to try implementing. I really want to avoid the negative side effects of a son been raised soley by his mum
You can't ever make up for the fact his dad isn't around, but you can offset much of this by teaching him that he can be a good guy without being a weak pushover ("nice guy"). Teach him to find strong male role models in life (at work, school, etc). Teach him to choose his friends carefully because it's a reflection of who HE is. Teach him to move on from women who show signs of being mentally ill, needing constant male attention, or who have a general anger towards men. Finally, teach him that his time and attention are valuable, and only people who deserve it will get it.
Where’s the dad
You, as a woman, can never, ever replace a man.
The best advice I can give from a man raised by a single mother is to get him involved in a combat sport. Boxing, Kickboxing / Thai Boxing, Wrestling / Jiu-jitsu. This will give him three really important things: time around other men - especially older men that he can use as a role model, self confidence by being able to protect himself and therefore less likely to be pushed around, and finally self control. Channelling his frustrations healthily will result in him less likely to act out and become difficult or poorly behaved at home or at school.
If you have a brother then it would be beneficial for him to spend time around them or your dad. Some things a woman won't be able to teach a young man, I had to learn most aspects of being a man myself. I wouldn't recommend it because its a difficult path that leads to a lot of mistakes and some of them cannot be undone. It takes a lot longer to establish yourself as an adult when you are learning things in your 20's when your peers did as a teen or younger.
@@Mike-pq7sgA brother or a dad won't do anything if they don't want to. Guys don't want to take responsibility for members of their own family (like their grandkids or nephews) anymore.
Jordan Peterson said it like: you should be able to be a monster or monster slayer and then control it and choose to be nice/kind
I'm a milennial (43 years old now) and my dad was not neccesarily a nice guy but he just didn't ever teach me anything about life, love, women, mindset etc. I feel my generation was generally left really free which was great in one way, but looking back I could have definitely used a bit more structure, a bit more direction and someone giving me a (loving) kick up the butt sometimes, especially in my late teens and 20s which I mostly wasted drinking and partying. But by then my parents had divorced and my dad just didn't really engage much with me and my brother, always more lost in his own world and interests. It's sad because my dad is really handy, he can build stuff, fix stuff etc. And he never taught me a single thing about it. I love my dad btw but he hasn't been the best father figure.
My dad's the same. His idea of raising me was that he paid for things. Never taught me anything, but he believes he taught me to tell right from wrong. I learned that from fiction, not him.
That is exactly how my dad is. He always says “I paid child support” but he was never around to teach me anything. He is a carpenter and he still didn't teach me anything.
Yup. My dad taught me nothing. Not sure if that is a common trend with Boomer fathers.
As a Millennial, I feel like the internet finally raised me when I turned 16. The internet was just starting to grow back then.
In the same boat, just some years younger.
My dad started showing me some things as I had already grew up but I felt it was a lot later in my life. So it was really embarrassing learning things about cars well into adulthood when most guys knew how to drive in their teens.
I am 45 and my father was the same throughout my childhood. The Dr Spok idea of children raising themselves gave boomer parents license to passively parent.
If being a kind man is problematic then maybe it’s the world we should question.
He doesn't say don't be kind.
"Nice guy" is a specific archetype, it doesn't mean don't ever be nice.
Being a "nice guy" is all about covert contracts, which means being "nice" only in order to get something from the other person. Worse, even expecting them to reciprocate, without them ever consenting to that contract. Being friendly is something that's coming from the heart, without you expecting anything in return. Kindness for kindess' sake.
Yea Jordan Peterson calls it agreable people. You need to be agreable around infants he said. So sometimes you are just born with traits. We can not all be stuborn leaders because we already have enough off that😅
We should all try to be more like Russian men. Look how they conquer territories. That's not nice, and they are winning.
The world is dysfunctional and primal. We just lie about it.
As someone who grew up with constant conflict due to a mother who is probably a borderline personality disorder, and thus as a young adult, I dated a woman who became like my mother and started relishing in creating conflict. This has led me to become quite conflict averse. Because the constant conflict is just exhausting. It's easier to just be alone and solitary than to deal with other people's shit...
i have bpd too and i know you'll give in if the sexual attraction is there lol.
Spend too many years being nice. A people pleaser. 12 years ago after a shitty bullying boss and a divorce I became a self centred ****. It is amazing to learn the power of saying no and putting your own needs first. Very liberating to find out most people back down and you get what you want. I no longer care about being liked and am fine with this
Great work
With a neutral mindset, you actually become happy, becoming appreciated by the right people and stick with them.
by the way practicing love empathy and gratitude more than 50 percent a day, increases health and immunity if your body, your mind become more creative free, and people want to be in your company.
But the chemicals and hormones of your body improve so much which should be your goal as well, you want your mind and body to feel free healthy and happy.
Practicing happy joyful mood in 4 days increases your immune system by 50 percent.
So dont ask Should I act happy because of the society standards and trends. Ask yourself Should I be loving a good person for the health of my body and mind.
You attract people who think like you, because they will enjoy your energy and humor and loving attitude.
“Self love is the only antidote to the chaos of existence . And if you don’t love and care for yourself and your own needs , you will cause unnecessary suffering both you and others “ Jordan Peterson .
This answered so many questions but also confirmed: I am not built for relationships.
Maybe not in your current state. However, if you want a woman in your life, then improve yourself.
@@Ace.0.0.0.how about a guy in your life son?
Im 44 and haven't dated in 2 years. I've accomplished more in these 2 years than the previous 8 when I was in a relationship. It feels good to be in control of my schedule.
@Ace01.. Women are not the prize. They are merely an accessory. A man's fulfillment of the truth in himself is the prize. When he hits that stride, women can not help but put themselves in his path. One literally needs to fight them off to stay on focus.
No more Mr. Nice guy was a turning point for me, read it 3 years ago, your last two interviews have been so full of exactly what I needed to hear, thanks.
Glad it changed your life, it's a game changer
With the neutral non-judgment mindset, you actually become happy, becoming appreciated by the right people and stick with them.
by the way practicing love empathy and gratitude more than 50 percent a day, increases health and immunity iof your body, your mind become more creative free, and people want to be in your company.
But the chemicals and hormones of your body improve so much which should be your goal as well, you want your mind and body to feel free healthy and happy.
Practicing happy joyful mood in 4 days increases your immune system by 50 percent.
So dont ask Should I act happy because of the society standards and trends. Ask yourself Should I be loving a good person for the health of my body and mind.
Dr. Glover helped me rebuild myself after my first heartbreak, I’ve got nothing but respect for him
shit, that 'im gonna die if I don't fix this' feeling is so spot on. im embarrassed for not quite seeing it so pat and clearly before
Both "nice" men and women aren't respected by the opposite sex (or by most people for that matter). IMHO, being "nice" as opposed to being "kind" comes from low self esteem and it's a compensatory coping strategy to being liked. "Nice" women who are also people pleasers, conflict averse and hide their needs to accommodate others' and are too focused on being liked at the expense of suppressing their authenticity can also become doormats and unattractive to some men.
Great comment! Very true.
This man right here saved my life. His book punched me in the gut several years ago when I was in a very unhappy marriage. I read and re-read until I had the courage to face the lies I had been telling myself and others. He gave me the courage to put an end to a bad situation and stop making excuses. Thank you Dr. Glover. You led me down the path to a fulfilling life and gave me the strength to take the first step.
Basically a nice guy is a people pleaser
Yes
Not necessarily, there's a caveat... Pleasing people is not inherently bad in itself, it's when it goes overboard, beyond reason, and the intention behind it is corrupted.
And then some.
Not every people-pleaser is a nice guy. I've seen some who aren't nice at all, in fact rude, and still have a knack to please the people to get what they want.
It's more like pleasing others but when it doesn't make you happy
Robert Glover literally saved my life. I’m so excited to see him as a guest on the pod.
Me too. This American marriage counsellor wrote a book 30+ years ago, about me!!!
He didn't just change my life, he saved it.
I dont like to throw around "this book changed my life" as rule, however this book truly changed my way of thinking and gave me so much introspection it truly changed me for the better. Highly recommend No More Mr Nice Guy
It's a game changer for sure
Being authentic is the key factor. But is not easy, when you are dating, trying to get together with someone and want to do everything right. But I think, at the end of the day, you got to be yourself. Either she likes you or not. I am again in the middle of it and I hope I can act accordingly.
I grew up in an abusive and neglectful environment and grew up with insecure attachment. The resulting weakness I displayed in relationships was appalling. I would do anything for scraps of love shown to me by my wife. His book was about ME - I’m reading it now. Fortunately I was not too far gone and am beginning to find my voice and stand up to others. I separated from my wife and largely flipped the power dynamic. Just yesterday I called out a bully in a discussion group I’m part of, and it felt GREAT! And I’m not becoming a jerk.
I grew up with split parents who lived 250 miles apart. Spent most time with my mom who didn’t pay much attention to me and invalidated my feelings and needs after my other siblings were born to my step-father. Never felt like I fit in. I became a people pleaser and a “nice guy” while also developing BPD. It has taken me years between working on my career, building myself up from homelessness and constantly failing in my relationships to finally come around and realize that being nice doesn’t get you anywhere and it’s manipulative and toxic.
I’ve learned to stop giving a fuck about unimportant things, and not apologizing for my opinions. Caring selectively and only putting my efforts into people that reciprocate. I’ve been working on setting boundaries and hard lines for myself to walk away from situations. It’s helping but there’s a ways to go. I wish I had known this 10 years ago.
Being nice is when you’re trying to get something
Being kind is when you’re selfless and don’t expect anything in return
I have a similar saying: Being nice is a performance for social cohesion. Being kind is easing someone’s burden. (The latter only working when you have the wisdom to understand the burden and how to ease it bc sometimes burdens are there for a reason.)
Being kind in a one-sided relationship, though, can be a massive drain on you.
So kindness is being a doormat, gotcha.
@@u4iadreams nah. Completely disregarding your own needs and wants is not kind to yourself at all
Guys don't be a nice guy(doing things for others approval and feedback). Be a kind guy like captain america who does things because he has morals and integrity. Like he said it. I don't want to kill others. I just hate bullies or I don't want a girl , I want a girl that wants me. A man of honor and integrity carries himself confidently and never let's other bully him. Women find that super attractive.
Dr Glover is the reason I am where I am today. I've read his book too many times to count, and as a recovering nice guy, I still pull new insights on every read. I got out of a bad relationship, set boundaries with family, and am succeeding in my career. I still have a lot to learn, and when I start getting complacent, I come back to his wisdom for a swift kick in the butt. I refuse to leave behind a legacy of "never making a fuss." Thank you Dr Glover!
When he speaks of men hiding themselves, it made me think of what sick or injured animals do- they know that if they show any weakness that others will perceive them as the prey rather than the predator.. even if they could get help in time and recover, they choose to hide and possibly die (but at least not being attacked). I suppose the analogy to humans could be metaphorical, whereas if a man hides his true self, his true self "dies".
this hit brutally close to home
Yep I prefer my nice hiding place at home on the couch rather than being judged or attacked constantly by bad egocentric people. The couch is nice though ;)
@@Just_a_Lad well I hope you have some good books to keep you company! ☺ I really only leave my domain to work/run errands or go for a walk lol I'd rather travel the world just through books 😆
@@the_eerie_faerie_tales That's nice, whatever makes you happy. Life is too short to do things you don't like. I too prefer a nice quiet stay at home alone time in comparison with crazy noisy party time with bunch of people I don't particularly like, nor they like me. Whether I'll read book, or watch a movie, write a story or learn some new IT skill or make some music I'll always find something to do. A walk in the nature is also nice. Introverts, unite! :)
@@Just_a_Lad nice! sounds like you have some interesting hobbies. yes agree.. a quiet night at home much more preferable to a raucous party.. I even stayed home and read all night this last New Year's Eve.. one of the best NYEs I've had 😆
I grew up a “nice guy”. Adverse to conflict. I put on a lot of muscle and gained fight experience. Still nice just with the capacity for confrontation now.
I wasn't nice guy but definitely muscle and martial arts are life changing
When Robert Glover discussed covert contracts I had no idea that was even a thing and I don't even think people realize they're doing it
this "nice guy" mentality apply to women too
I know this conversation is geared towards men, but wow am I hearing so many gems that apply to me as a woman too. And I'm only 30 minutes in.
"Getting in your own way"
Creating a "mess around you" due to fear of success, even if you believe you're capable
Home environment where at least one person's needs are deemed more fragile and therefore important...
Such a great conversation, please have him back on!
I am afraid this will be lost on too many people who watch this video.
The book No More Mr Nice Guy is now required reading for any woman who wants to be with me.
You want to get to know me, read this book then come with me on my journey
Your drive to get out content is unmatched! You and your team are making a fantastic difference in the world. Thank you for all the hard work.
❤❤❤i❤❤❤❤❤❤
There is nothing wrong with being kind and generous, it's when you take it too far and become a doormat and say "yes" when you really want to say "no" that it's problematic. "Don't light yourself on fire to keep everyone else warm."
I am reading his book and absolutely agree with everything he has said. I am a recovering nice guy and codependent as taught by my mother.
A few things have helped me to change. One, I clearly express my wants, needs, and boundaries unapologetically. Two, I have hobbies that mentally and physically stimulate me, in particular I love jiu jitsu and working out. Three, women are no longer the center of my life. Four, it takes practice and I am constantly learning and trying to improve myself.
Never be afraid to say no. If you don’t want to do something just say no period
@@TommyGunz327Like the gym and hang out around gray or bald ex-jocks that still get the (now older and serially-divorced) ex-cheerleaders. Who are usually the only age appropriate women left that aren't morbidly obese.
Something that I think could be helpful in this discussion is the concept of kindness over niceness.
As he said here, ‘nice’ is manipulative. You can’t trust ‘nice’.
Kind, however, you can trust. Kindness isn’t about placating. Kindness is about doing the right thing and acting in integrity even if it’s uncomfortable to some.
The thing to look for when you don’t want the ‘nice guy’ isn’t the asshole. It’s the kind man ❤
If you are "kind", you just wind up used. By EVERYBODY. All ages, sexes, alphabets you name it. Churches in particular will USE you until your body fails completely. Then you are on your own with an occasional visit on Sunday by the widows and withholding divorcees (usually 2 or 3 time losers by then) looking for their last meal ticket and someone to dump their "true loves" litter box.
I try to avoid arguing, because what will come out of my mouth is going to be very sharp.
There is good wisdom out there that you never argue with a woman. It's impossible. What you do is listen, make sure she knows you're listening, say "I understand" and "this is really important to you huh?".
Then go and do what you decide is best and she'll respect you a whole lot more.
@goodlookinouthomie1757 Accurate, you just treat a woman like a child and you'll succeed
@Bio,
👍That reminded me of a quote,
“When I throw dirt , I lose ground”
Yeah, had a dad who was always angry and randomly yelling at me all the time and a mom who did the same sometimes but was usually busy grading papers, so I internalized that I am a nuisance to others, and I spent most of my childhood hiding in my bedroom, escaping into video games, and trying not to bother anyone. Now I'm a 34 year old virgin shut-in who's never had a girlfriend or held a girl's hand or been on a single date. I have no friends. At least I've stayed fit, and I have money, so it's not completely hopeless, but man the mental blocks are powerful. Feel like I give every girl the "ick" because I come across as harmless. They can smell the lack of a spine on me. Yeah, I should really see a therapist I think.
$5K and Pattaya will change your mind.
Another textbook example of parents who had narcisstic personality disorder.
Look these up:
Narcistic peronality disorder
Covert/vulnerable narcissism
Grandiose narcissism
Scapegoat
Golden child
Codependency
You will need the help of a psycholpgist and the damage is permament, but you can succeed in life. Only if you do what you want and actively work on getting and staying in a relationship.
Good luck in your healing journey!
Please do find someone to talk to. I want to to find someone to love, man. You're young but life is short!
If I could also recommend one other thing, get out there and socialize. Volunteer, bowling, karaoke, take a dance class at a local community center, join a church group (they have non-denominational churches of you aren't especially religious). If you have some work friends, hang out one night a week. It's hard to go alone, so find some other single dudes and have fun.
You may or may not find the one, but you will have some fun, meet new people, sharpen your social skills and build confidence. You just never know. Good luck to you
Gotcha beat. I'm a 37 year old virgin, though part of that is due to not focusing on women. But part of it is also because I definitely have a "nice guy" problem. I've made improvements over the years but still don't think I am where I should be. I tend to avoid conflict until I am cornered and left with no choice. I have trouble speaking up at work when people aren't carrying their weight. When people make microaggressions towards me, I pretend not to notice.
But, on the other hand, if I am clearly disrespected, I will throw down and fight back. My problem is that I always doubt myself. "Are my coworkers really slacking, or maybe busy with something else?", "Is he/she making stuff up like I think she is, or am I wrong?""Did he/she really mean to come off that way?", etc. I want to be fair to people, yet I think I often cheat myself in the process.
A lot of dudes are virgins later in life now. There's nothing wrong with that. There's a severe distinction between being a virgin and being an incel. All the best to you and I hope you meet someone. Life is brutally lonely nowadays.
The main beauty and the beast problem is that only mature introspective women understand what a good man is. A kind strong man with the capability to be a monster. But that doesn't mean hes a dick to everyone else. Immature (most) women want a guy whos an asshole or even possibly abusive to other people just not her, so she feels special. And you just can't have this, you cant have your cake and eat it too. If hes abusive to the waiter/mechanic/random person in public not only should you expect him to be abusive to you as well you objectively deserve it if you knowingly get with him.
Keeping boundaries is pretty huge. My middle ground is that i make sure not to state my needs when angry. Be stern and assertive
Holy crap, you got Dr Glover on!
His book, No More Mr Nice Guy is one of my three all-time favorites!
Nothing else like it out there.
He was ahead of his time.
Exactly!
I’m one of Dr. Glover’s coaches and helped him build his men’s community, Integration Nation. I’m grateful to get to be mentored by him daily!
FYI, I do know of another book like it called The Naked Truth by Dan Munro. The Naked Truth is also a people pleasing recovery book, but goes deeper on shameless honesty as a whole-of-life lifestyle and is also much less gender specific.
Not saying it's better than Dr Glover's book. No More Mr Nice Guy is much more focused on romantic relationships for men, and if you are a man that's probably the best place to start because relationships are likely the thing that is probably causing you the most grief.
The Naked Truth is a great follow up read though.
I constantly feel like my needs are not that important and that others mater more than me. Idk why but I've felt like this was so much instilled into me as a child and I don't know how to deprogram that out of me.
Same shit buddy, though when you understand that this type of mindset is considered as something horribly unsexy by women, basically a big turn-off (even if they won't explain that in such direct terms as here), it becomes a little bit easier to regain your self-esteem from that point
It seems like courage, confidence, competence, assertiveness and self-esteem combined with kindness and empathy -- while avoiding being a simp -- will do the trick.
That sounds easy enough. 😐
Stop being nice.
Have backbone, integrity, solid boundaries, and kindness for the deserving. Don't put up with crap! Reward good behavior, and make sure bad behavior has consequences!
Cutting out people who do not appreciate your kindness is the best way of being able to keep being kind, but to the right people.
Ive been labeled nice since I was a young teen. Its genuinely just a part of my personality but the difference between how i behave vs. what being described is that Im no pushover. Im good in a scrap and Im perfectly comfortable in a fight. I dont mix words in conversation, Im not intentionally cruel but I see no value in lying. And what is generally the biggest point here is I have no problem walking away from people who arent making a positive impact on my life. Im nice, not soft, and I think theres a conflation between the two which just doesnt fit with myself and people like me (of which i believe there are more than people think).
Same bro
Yep but most people are too stupid and shallow to see the difference.
Who cares? Why comment this?
@@Stierenkloot Making a point. A point I care about. Why comment on a comment you dont care about?
There is a difference between nice and kind. It sounds like you are more kind.
Nice guys, in my experience, either tended to be middle children who grew up trying to be family conflict brokers, or had dominant mothers who they grew up trying to please (or both). They also manipulated people by always staking out a “nice” side as a tactic to be better liked (called triangulation-characterizing the others as extreme and placing themselves in the middle), which actually is quite narcissistic and works in bureaucracies. Also, guys who grew up with dominant mothers then tended to marry dominant women and often had bad tempers when put in a bad position-when things went wrong-and tended to quickly blame others as they had since youth trying to please mom. Just my two cents. ☮️
DR. Glover and "No more Mr. Nice Guy" blew my mind even after years of self work and being in my 40's. A must read for all men.
The balance between two dysfunctional extremes is true self acceptance. Recognizing it’s not your fault.
The topics about toxic shame in his book really did it for me.
His book is ahead of it’s time and timeless altogether
One of the issues with nice guys too is that you aren’t actually learning about them or collaborating in companionship. They want you to pick everything so they can agree with you and then look for potential acts of service they can do for these covert contracts they’ve developed. You start to pick up on how inauthentic they seem and feel very alone in the dynamic and move on to seek actual collaborative companionship. It’s less about pliability and more about picking up on how inauthentic they are and if you’re being vulnerable and realize they aren’t sharing anything with you it becomes so misbalanced it is uncomfortable.
Or you could ask them about themselves.
@@autoclearanceuk7191 yeah obviously. The assumption that isn’t happening is simply an assumption, it is. It just doesn’t go anywhere because they don’t know the answers.
The book helped me make major changes in my life in the last year, relationship wise, job wise. I’m so grateful I read it.
Being “fake nice” is the path of least resistance.
It's not down the road.. when you pay for it with all the resentment!
I do sheet metal and I'm a foreman. My ex asked if I could get her hired at my work. "I'm an actual boss at work and you would have to listen to me and not argue." She didn't apply.
The If...Then clause really caught my attention. If I meet everyone else's needs, then they will meet mine. Both parties have to be in on that, but with Nice Guys (like me, yeah), the other people don't know about this 'covert contract' ---- so being butthurt and resentful follows ---- and the other people neither know about it or care. So yeah, Nice Guys ARE in fact being deceitful, because they are harboring negative feelings which they blame on others.
His book changed my life. By far the most practical and implementable "self help" book I've ever read.
If you exhibit any of the traits he talks about (people pleasing, trying to be perfect, hiding anger etc) I *highly* recommend reading No More Mr Nice Guy. It will be game changing.
If someone doesn't appreciate your kindness and decency, then they don't deserve you. Simple as that.
This talk is either going to save my own personal relationship or help me in my next one. Thank you Robert.
The best book isn’t the best selling, it is the one that changes your life.
Dr. Robert Glover changed my life 4 years ago and I can’t thank him enough
Think a simple way of balance is "what would i normally do (nice guy).... what do i really WANT to do (likely the opposite / overcompensating rudeness, anger, apathy) ..... and where is the middle of those two"
I'm not particularly nice but I am generous and friendly. However I hate receiving things. I like earning for myself first and foremost. I don't know if that's a symptom of being nice as a kid, or self deprecating behaviour because if someone's doing something for me it makes me feel like I'm lacking in my own ability.
Being a doormat. Not having boundaries. Accepting every female behaviour as okay.
That’s cos it doesn’t make us feel safe. We need to feel protected.
Yep, not attractive
"female behaviour" ...what
@@HelloOki "Women behaviour" isn't how you say it. We say "male behaviour" and "female behaviour"
Proper masculinity is oriented toward the service of others. People-pleasing or performing a caricature of androgyny comes from breakdowns in proper understanding and teaching about what really makes a man valuable for what purposes. Men who are passive, servile, show too much sensitivity without compensating prowess: such men naturally draw contempt and disgust. And some of us do have those traits as part of our native constitution: an estimated 20% of men are highly sensitive. We have to get out of the Nice Guy trap by a different road.
I wish Dr. Glover had fully considered and engaged with the different varieties of nice guys in his book. His message seems helpful for normal men. But for those of us who are not normal, if we try to “state our needs” or act like we deserve to be loved and accepted for who we are, we set ourselves up to be even more pathetic losers, or to become burdensome and abusive in an obnoxious or dangerous way. People will tolerate a man who is a people-pleaser without respecting him, but they will really despise a mediocre man who asks to be treated as if he’s worthy of esteem.
Also, I have no use for or patience with the sexual ethic assumed by Glover and his ilk. Mary Harrington showed how unsustainable it is. There is no excuse to keep telling men that we should act like we’re entitled to some technocratic consumer utopia when it comes to sex.
Its a good book, along with healing the shame that binds you, 3 percent man, and the way of the superior man.
This podcast hit home… a lot of self reflection that I’ve buried down because I rarely ever try to think about this stuff. Underrated podcast episode
I knew a woman once who thought I was amazing. And would tell me so. And then suddenly I wasn't, and the things she then said to me, rubbing my face in the dirt so to speak about everything that was wrong with me .. such contempt really caught me off guard... but I hadn't changed .. the world of the feminine you call it, well I know first hand it happens, but I don't know that calling it the world of the feminine is very helpful. I guess another man took her mind and heart away, I don't know because she just stopped communicating with me, it is as simple as that, she was rationalizing and reimagining what happened in her own head to distance herself from her own shit .. but we all do that, men and women.
I am thrilled to see Dr. Glover as a guest. No More Mr. Nice Guy started a journey for me more than 2 years ago that has changed my life and trajectory completely.
Try during a conflict causing you anxiety to stop, count to ten, calm down, ask yourself what you need, communicate that to your girl friend. I once couldn't get her out of a kitchen implements store and after calming down I stated, "I need you to come with me out of this store." and she said, "Ok." This after an hour of failed efforts while in an anxious state. Can work if patient when she is in fight mode as well.
There is a difference btween being a admirable, respectful, kind man and a codependant man who is doing things for validation and not out of love.
Huge difference, covert contracts
Just recently started listening to your interviews and this one really blew my mind and really connected with me, I grew up with the authoritative mother with everyone having to walk around on eggshells with her and the nice dad, the resentment of doing everything in life correctly and not getting what I want and so much more, honestly might watch this again and take notes
Re the advice to just turn off your internal censors and blurt things out.. Immediately made me think of that scene in Seinfeld: 'Hi, my name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents.' 'I'm Victoria! Hiiii!' 😂😂😂
I really relate to this chat like no other. Perpetually assisting others without asking for validation and in fact telling people to not let on I assisted others. 🙁
Why would someone being nice (considerate, generous, thoughtful) be inauthentic ? It is probably their real personality.
That’s not really the subject here the subject is being overly nice and generous and thoughtful as a protection mechanism. You see it every day in people who go to work sick or will never tell their boss no… stuff like that is what this convo is about. Not being a kind human being.
@@shasmi93 - why are they not call `overly nice guys` then ?
Loved hearing this episode with Dr. Glover. Like many, he helped me so much on my personal development journey 5-6 year ago. I’m now one of his certified coaches and helped him start and run his men’s community, Integration Nation, that he talks about at the end.
He’s a great man and I’m grateful to be mentored by him daily!
This information has changed my life. I am now a certified coach. I have enjoyed sitting in that room and learning from Dr. Glover.
Glad you become a coach too ;)
one of the most important aspects of life, is to be sincere (for better or for worse)
and if one were to be the perfect person - then there are almost certainly, people you should be pissing off
Was listening to this during my workout and had to stop several times to fully acknowledge the things I was hearing. I even yelled "oh $hit!" a few times (private gym, just me and GF) and had to explain why.
Somewhat enlightening and frustrating to have someone basically describe your childhood and issues in relationships and exactly why it all played out that way.
Going to see my therapist next week with basically this podcast as notes to discuss and what to work on.
While I respect Dr.Glover and his work, and believe he's right on a number of things, he's like a lot of coaches. It's almost like it's a one-size-fits-all thing but there are a lot of us out here for whom the advice doesn't seem to work. Like a lot of coaches, he'll make fun of the saying "happy wife, happy life" but doesn't address one that most men actually experience "if she ain't happy, you ain't happy". In his book he has a section where he talks about women actually wanting their man to stand up to them. That sounds great but a lot of us know that as soon as we do, it gets bad for us.
Best idea is to be single your entire life. Bypass the entire relationship headache and learn to enjoy being single. Not even casual hookups (most men hardly get the opportunity for those anyway, so casual hookups are super easy to avoid). Truly embrace the monk life and enjoy the company of family, friends and your hobbies. It is the best solution, but most guys with woman problems are still in denial about it.
@@oishikhasan8500 I had grown up and believed in that ideal of getting married once and starting a family that's why I did it and kept trying. I'm 55 now and if something happened to my current relationship, I'd feel no need to get involved again. There is literally no reason for me to be with a woman again. Of the ones I've known, they've easily added ten times the amount of misery to my life as compared to the little bit of pleasure they've added.
@@oishikhasan8500the problem with that is you have t experienced what having a good partner does for your life. I have a woman in my life that I can 100% say has made my life a million times richer than I ever dreamed. Finding a good partner to complement your life and help you is worth all the heartache and trouble to find it. But you won’t know that if you’ve never found it. So men who say “don’t bother dating or waste time on women” I know they have never found true love and an amazing partner. But from someone who has found that… I promise it is worth all the trouble to find it.
This book started with my change, therapy, breaking up etc almost a year ago. Thank you for writing it.
Dr Glover’s work is phenomenal. I’ll be re-reading his book soon.
This book changed my life and set me on the right path. Shout out to Dr. Glover
Don’t be nice, be kind. If you’re nice you’ll get taken advantage of
The one about a lot of the decisions nice guys make being driven by shame and/or anxiety hit so close to home my windows rattled for a moment. It also made me realize that despite all the time I've spent working on myself, there are areas I have avoided because I fear success. Definitely some food for thought for me in this one.
woe do you have to be ashamed about ? I am sure, nothing.
Excellent work Chris. Thank you Mr. Glover.
Niceness is externally-driven. Kindness is internally-driven.
Just a matter of word definitions.
The main issue here is that the problem isnt "being nice", it's being this very strange thing that's just being defined as being "the nice guy" - which has very little to do with "being nice" in general. You can easily be "a nice guy" without falling into this kind of trap. And when men looking for answers read stuff like "women don't like nice guys" they will think of "nice" as "friendly", "compassionate" etc. Which is bad, those are good traits in any man and nobody should believe women don't want that in their husbands. In fact, being nice is what everyone wants from their partners. Simply because the alternatives are so much worse. Who wants to date someone who is not a nice guy or girl?
In the past few days I’ve watched dozens of Dr Robert Glover interviews and Chris Williamson has managed to bring out a massive amount of value. This is my 2nd time watching. Keep up the good work
3rd time listening and it's still great! Get something new everytime. This pod with Dr RG and Chris should have way more views.
Chris you are doing a great job for young men. Well done! I needed these interviews 30 years ago.
This was a fantastic and enlightening pody loved it thanks lads
Love when I can tell how well-read y'all are; the addition of Pete Walkers ideas on the fight/flight/freeze/fawn response was nice to hear!
*That Podcast is a treat.*
*I have a lot of these problems and try to change them and I agree with most of the conversation.*
*This can help so many people feeling helpless, just because they are being ''nice'' (which should't be a bad character trait)*
_Nobody should lose their heart but everyone should definetely learn how to protect it._
Impressive! Just like all the other long form discussions it gets better once you've become accustomed to their nuances, their mannerisms, looks, etc. Hopefully the lessons sticks to my head when it comes.
I was really surprised to see him make an appearance. I love his book. Hope to see you back in Dublin soon Chris ! Love the podcast.
good job chris on this interview!
This man, Dr. Glover, practically saved my life.
Hes talking about the plane of thought that daily meditation and can do for most men to help with anxiety.
Growing up, I was told that it's important to know when to show respect and kindness and when to be mean. Never have been concerned with "appearing" to be nice or good, or catering to others as of their emotional well being hinged on my behavior. If that's true, it's still a them problem.
Love this conversation between you two