THANK YOU. I've not heard anyone say this about session zero before. You are 100% right about session zero bringing up things that don't typically come up in a game. It also encourages players to form opinions about crap that they would not ever concern themselves with. I've played AD&D since 1979 and not heard of session zero until just a few years ago.
I have had assassin 0 type day for every campaign I've ever run, well over 30 years worth of games. I used it to show what the campaign setting was about, back in the day not everyone would buy the boxed set, tha was a dm thing u less the player loved the setting. And as far as stories go, I've always had them, some more complex then others, some took the back seat some took the front row, all depends on the group.
In a world rife with far too much power granted to players by entities trying to make a buck off of power creep... You get where I'm going with this. DMs need the monopoly on power (insert Uncle Ben quote here).
I agree with your stance against Rule 0, but I feel like we've had completely different types of Session 0s. Generally we use session 0 to create characters and link them together. It's also a good spot to talk with the players on how their characters tick as well as find out if they have easy hooks to catch on to. When players are told to make their characters on their own time, too often they show up with overlapping characters or characters who are fundamentally incompatible, causing infighting down the line. One example of overlapping characters would be a time when a player made a demon cultist and leaned into that with his build, then another guy showed up and made a sort of the same guy, but accidentelly better at it than the person who's whole deal was to be the demonic apprentice. First was not happy and basically lost most of his interest in first session. For the incompatible teammates a classic example would be a holy Lawful character and any type of seedy guy. It usually solves a lot of problems if those two talk out their grievances and come up with a compromise, instead of getting pissy with each other every time we play. We don't do any of that "you want sex or not?" stuff, but rather make sure that everyone who is joining knows what to expect. If you want to play a dungeon crawler, it usually comes up during the session 0 and you can then either drop out or change your mind. I deem session 0s fundamental part of dnd 4E as the whole game revolves around teamplay. As a side note; longest session 0 I've had was 14 hours, with me as the GM and two players.
"DnD Horror Stories" really took off on Reddit and TH-cam and I feel like that might have played a part in popularizing session 0 as a counter-measure to prevent such things from happening. I can't speak as to whether it has helped or not. I think a lot of players and DMs alike set themselves up for a lot of heartache by getting overly attached to anticipated plot points instead of allowing their characters and stories to discover themselves as they go. "Making strategic decisions that interact with a rule system" so spot on here. THAT is what is fun to me.
Session 0 isn't all about sex and comfortability my guy. It's all about getting everyone on the same page about what the vibe of the campaign is gonna be. If you're someone who wants to play in a sandbox political campaign but the rest of the group wants to do a mega dungeon crawl you discuss that during the session 0 and now you know you can leave for another group that's a better fit for you. People's comfort levels for different things is an *additional* thing to be discussed but it's not the core of why you'd have a session 0. As for comfortability questions tho, for example fantasy racism is pretty common in a lot of OSR games. If you're just looking to play a game, have some escapism and not have to deal with bullshit that you deal with every goddamn day then that is a comfortability thing that can be brought up in the session 0. If the rest of the group really needs the fantasy racism in the world in order to get immersed then now you know you can just look for another group instead of having a bad time with this one. Unless people are on the same page about what game they're playing there will inevitably be unnecessary friction in the group. Friction that distracts from actually playing the goddamn game. Session 0 is just meant to reduce that friction.
The scenario you describe is so rare as not to be an issue. It's almost always friends and acquaintances who already know comfort levels and the type of game they want to play in. But ok, let's pretend you have been asked to join a random friend of a friend's campaign and you don't want to agree unless its to your taste. Just ask a couple questions that get to the heart of whatever might offend you and be on your way. The DM has almost certainly picked the system and probably setting they want to run so just ask and you can find out quickly if it's your type of escapism. It's just never the case that the only way you can root out crap you hate in D&D is to first meeting in an elaborate and performative "Session Zero"
This session 0 nonsense comes from all the woke weirdo's that crept out of Tumblr and into tabletop gaming and actually do have these bizarre RP issues. Think GinnyD.
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THANK YOU.
I've not heard anyone say this about session zero before. You are 100% right about session zero bringing up things that don't typically come up in a game. It also encourages players to form opinions about crap that they would not ever concern themselves with.
I've played AD&D since 1979 and not heard of session zero until just a few years ago.
I have had assassin 0 type day for every campaign I've ever run, well over 30 years worth of games. I used it to show what the campaign setting was about, back in the day not everyone would buy the boxed set, tha was a dm thing u less the player loved the setting. And as far as stories go, I've always had them, some more complex then others, some took the back seat some took the front row, all depends on the group.
In a world rife with far too much power granted to players by entities trying to make a buck off of power creep... You get where I'm going with this. DMs need the monopoly on power (insert Uncle Ben quote here).
I agree with your stance against Rule 0, but I feel like we've had completely different types of Session 0s.
Generally we use session 0 to create characters and link them together. It's also a good spot to talk with the players on how their characters tick as well as find out if they have easy hooks to catch on to.
When players are told to make their characters on their own time, too often they show up with overlapping characters or characters who are fundamentally incompatible, causing infighting down the line.
One example of overlapping characters would be a time when a player made a demon cultist and leaned into that with his build, then another guy showed up and made a sort of the same guy, but accidentelly better at it than the person who's whole deal was to be the demonic apprentice. First was not happy and basically lost most of his interest in first session.
For the incompatible teammates a classic example would be a holy Lawful character and any type of seedy guy. It usually solves a lot of problems if those two talk out their grievances and come up with a compromise, instead of getting pissy with each other every time we play.
We don't do any of that "you want sex or not?" stuff, but rather make sure that everyone who is joining knows what to expect. If you want to play a dungeon crawler, it usually comes up during the session 0 and you can then either drop out or change your mind.
I deem session 0s fundamental part of dnd 4E as the whole game revolves around teamplay.
As a side note; longest session 0 I've had was 14 hours, with me as the GM and two players.
"DnD Horror Stories" really took off on Reddit and TH-cam and I feel like that might have played a part in popularizing session 0 as a counter-measure to prevent such things from happening. I can't speak as to whether it has helped or not.
I think a lot of players and DMs alike set themselves up for a lot of heartache by getting overly attached to anticipated plot points instead of allowing their characters and stories to discover themselves as they go.
"Making strategic decisions that interact with a rule system" so spot on here. THAT is what is fun to me.
This guy is making a lot of sense
Session 0 isn't all about sex and comfortability my guy. It's all about getting everyone on the same page about what the vibe of the campaign is gonna be. If you're someone who wants to play in a sandbox political campaign but the rest of the group wants to do a mega dungeon crawl you discuss that during the session 0 and now you know you can leave for another group that's a better fit for you. People's comfort levels for different things is an *additional* thing to be discussed but it's not the core of why you'd have a session 0. As for comfortability questions tho, for example fantasy racism is pretty common in a lot of OSR games. If you're just looking to play a game, have some escapism and not have to deal with bullshit that you deal with every goddamn day then that is a comfortability thing that can be brought up in the session 0. If the rest of the group really needs the fantasy racism in the world in order to get immersed then now you know you can just look for another group instead of having a bad time with this one.
Unless people are on the same page about what game they're playing there will inevitably be unnecessary friction in the group. Friction that distracts from actually playing the goddamn game. Session 0 is just meant to reduce that friction.
The scenario you describe is so rare as not to be an issue. It's almost always friends and acquaintances who already know comfort levels and the type of game they want to play in. But ok, let's pretend you have been asked to join a random friend of a friend's campaign and you don't want to agree unless its to your taste. Just ask a couple questions that get to the heart of whatever might offend you and be on your way. The DM has almost certainly picked the system and probably setting they want to run so just ask and you can find out quickly if it's your type of escapism. It's just never the case that the only way you can root out crap you hate in D&D is to first meeting in an elaborate and performative "Session Zero"
This session 0 nonsense comes from all the woke weirdo's that crept out of Tumblr and into tabletop gaming and actually do have these bizarre RP issues. Think GinnyD.