Top Find: 1967 Ansaldo Poggi Viola | ANTIQUES ROADSHOW | PBS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Official Website: to.pbs.org/3f5... | #AntiquesRoadshow
All-new ANTIQUES ROADSHOW is back! Watch the top find of the season with Claire Givens' appraisal of a 1967 Ansaldo Poggi viola at Filoli.
Watch the Season 27 premiere, "Filoli, Hour 1": • Video .
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#viola #musicalinstruments #antiques #filoli
Why can't I ever get bad news like this!? 😭
Right?! Lol
My bad news usually goes "it's a fake, but maybe someone would pay $50 if they liked it!"
2023 is your year of bad news!!
Yeah. Absolutely heartbreaking.
😂😂😂😂
that puts such a huge smile on my face. he came across it in a perfectly innocent way. he knew through experience as he grew up that it was worth _something._ i love seeing the face of someone that knew they had something special their whole life finding out that it was in fact a _real_ treasure.
You could tell his surprise when she told him that only 41 violas were made. I imagine that's when he thought it might be worth a bit more than maybe $10,000!
@@cornbeef yeah. i think my heart would skip a beat right there.
The only thing I saw on the face of the man was that ridiculous attempt at a goatee.
The backstory is really great. The story of the maker is fascinating too.
Very calm voice, gentleman has.
He isn’t sincere
@@houserental5424 how do you know?
OK, Yoda :-)
@@Garethprice1979 To it you beat me.
I love when a normal person finds out their "everyday" item from their life has such value to others. On AR, I've seen the sculptures that were used as doorstops, paintings behind doors, fabrics used as dust covers. I hope he hangs onto it, still plays it for years and makes plans to pass it on to someone that will appreciate it for it's musical worth and not its monetary worth.
I bought my bow from Claire! She is excellent!
Great maker. Claire Givens refers to the associate principal violist in the Minnesota Orchestra, an Italian who had a Poggi viola. His name was John Tartaglia, a very fine player and an early teacher of Geraldine Lamboley Walther. His viola looked identical to the one in this video.
Yeah? And now Ms. Walter plays a Lorenzo Storioni worth about $400k - $650k ... what treasure she has!!!
Tartaglia is a pimp. It was Barzini all along...
His father paid $600 in 1967...that's about $5,300 in today's dollars.... he must have been confident his son was going to continue to play it...thanks for the video
True. But it was his GRANDfather who went to Italy and met with Poggi
Beautiful instrument! Maybe he’ll start playing again now:)
This woman mentions Cremona; Cremona is famous for the violins and violas made there in the 16th-18th centuries by the Amati family and their pupils, the Guarneri and Antonio Stradivari. The School of Violin and Viola Makers has a museum of antique stringed instruments in the Palazzo dell’Arte. What a joy it would be to visit the site and experience the history and fabrication process!!!
Talk about being in the right place at the right time! Congratulations! I don’t think id keep it but it maybe if I played it a lot.
I don't think most people should have $300,000 tied up in a viola. If you don't play professionally, just get a used viola for about $500-$1,000.
His grandfather is smiling from the sky!
Very cool story and always happy to see an owner get a big win
I would rather have the ability of the maker than all that money. People who are dedicated to making a fine thing have my eternal admiration.
She is a great appraiser!
Her passion was strong with it. A true expert in her craft
She really isn't, because she got it wrong. Very wrong.
@@sjf1981 She know's almost nothing about the string instrument world..... let alone 'just' violas within the market.
I wish he would have played it!
I’m not musically inclined. But that’s a beautiful instrument.
I didn't know there was an American Antiques roadshow also
Wow. I wish I could find something like that
Wonderful
They often give the "for insurance purposes" quote for items people are emotionally or sentimentally attached to, but that insurance is beyond what most people can afford, so they often eventually sell the item. Perhaps tragic, but usually a good idea if the sale helps them live a better life. This is a good example of that item providing a better life for the seller, especially with a videotaped provenance.
I wanted to hear him play it
That’s a great return! Now his siblings will fight him.
Appraisal without knowing how it sounds works fine if the sale is likely to a collector, but a player will need to hear it for obvious reasons.
My mother has a violin from 1725, can only imagine what that might go for
the year doesn't matter. its quality, who made it, and its condition all have more significance in its valuation.
@@painstruck01 year definitely matters, last time this specific violin sold it was about 90,000
Nah, the year definitely doesn't matter in terms of increased value. Sonority, provenance, and quality are the main determining factors. At the music shop I worked at as a luthier, we had a violin dated from 1765. It looked beautiful and old, but it's maker was unknown, and it honestly sounded pretty bad. We were selling it for $7,500. On the other hand, we had a viola also from the 1960's, made by this known French maker (I can't remember the name) that sounded absolutely wonderful and we were selling it for $25,000. We also had a few violins made just the year before from Cremona, IT that were all fantastically constructed with gorgeous sounds, and they were selling between $10,000-30,000. Things are only as valuable as people are willing to pay for them, and age rarely has a determining effect in price increase.
@@GryphonWahle Well the violin is currently being appraised, I just know it's in great condition and has gone for 90k in the past. I joked with my mother that she should sell it and get me a newer one.
@@trevorvonritter Right on my dude.
"I don't intend to sell it"
Some other Road Show recap clip about super expensive appraisals had an appraiser who said "they all say that". But then you go back to your life with the knowledge that you could get $300,000.00 for an instrument that you don't play anymore and that just sits in a closet and you think about all the things you can do with that money and many people change their mind after pondering it for a spell. This one seems like a ripe case for that.
I'd wonder how often that applies to instruments owned by musicians that have a personal connection to them.
Jokes on them, it's still a viola.
Needs to go to someone who will play it!
I have a Poggi Kazoo. Rich, warm tone.
I'll see myself out!
ignoring the number of these that she said was made by the master craftsman which already told you it would be a phenomenal value, when an appraiser refers to your object as one that has just "come out into the light".... you know something special is happening.
Sold 💴
I'm not going to sell it. I would buy a 20k to replace it then go on a month vacation.
He'll keep it until he hears the insurance premium...
Eric Sloane did the same thing --- went around buying back his paintings that he felt were not up to his standard. Also Whistler destroyed a lot of his work he later felt unworthy of his art and said, "To destroy is to remain", meaning, I suppose, that he would be more likely to be remembered by history if his only work extant was good work.
wow
Nice. 🥰
My first thought when he said he wasn’t confident in the number his uncle paid, was that maybe his child brain forgot a zero. But even so, if his uncle paid $6,000 (~$48k in todays dollars) that’s still a pretty impressive ROI
The man said his Grandfather paid about 600.00 for it
@@WoodlandDance I understand that. But kids don't have the best understanding of money and sometimes misremember. It absolutely could have been $600, but that is insanely cheap to get directly from a maker. If a kid dropped a zero off the price in his kid brain, $6,000 would make more sense. I'm not saying that I know which is was, or that it's impossible that it was $600. (I would say, it feels somewhat unlikely, my dad's parents got him a violin around the same time....$600 for that quality is wild) But my point is, even if he misremembered the price, and it was actually purchased for $6,000, that still would be an awesome ROI.
My hearing is fine I heard $600, I understood that is what came out of his mouth. I think I made the above pretty clear in my original comment.
The liability starts to get ridiculous.,300k ? Let someone else worry about it..
A famous cellist travels on aircraft always accompanied by her next seat companion....
whose seat is reserved as A. Cello
This occasionally excites Customs and Immigration at the aircraft's destination as the ticket for A.Cello, Italian is paid for in cash on the day of travel...and A.Cello has no passport....
...all signs of a drug mule....😁😁
I have one in my basement
There's a 90yo Luthier, from Italy, in Union City, NJ...who is a custom violin maker. His name is
Ronaldo Orlandini
@Ronaldo Customs
check him out!
The Orlandini family is well known in lutherie. Is he part of that family?
The original plates inside the genuine viola would be different than the ones in copies. For example, the original plates that Stradivari put in his instruments are ornanate & beautiful, while the ones in copies are plain & boring. The quality & design of the plates is also a clue to whether the instrument is genuine...
Look at his beard! He deserves it
What a shame that Poggi himself saw none of that value.
I'd pay my mortgage.
🎉🥳🎻
Send it on tour
I’ll give you 100,000 dollars and not a penny more. Remember I take all the risk and there are auction fees plus I need to get it framed.
On April 2022 a Poggi violin was sold at Tarisio for +/- 160k and it was already overpriced.
200k for a Poggi viola is totally crazy. Way too expensive.
Too many variables. Poggi made far fewer violas than violins, for example.
@@toddrf Yes, and fewer cellos and they are not so expensive.
@@mosaiques23 I'd love to see your market analysis of Poggi instruments for the past 5 years.
@@toddrf You first.
@@mosaiques23 just as I thought. You’re the one who makes it sound like he knows the market on high end string instruments. Do you or not?
Modern Italian violins are generally physically hideous. They all have the same bright orange or yellow varnish, and they look nothing like a Strad or Guarneri, nor do they sound as luminous. This is why they are so affordable. This isn’t worth 200K when you can get a Becker for 100K. It’s a commercial looking production.
I have even worse news that will pay off his mortgage lol
Smart enough to play a viola but the Internet's apparently a mystery to him. 😶
He may have other things going on in his life...
remember this was early 90's so the Internet wasn't really a thing then...
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq This is from 2022.
@@mulemule
Oh well in that case....he really doesn't have any time for the Internet.
I have been watching the early series of the BBC equivalent program and from her dress I immediately thought "90's" 😀😀
Poopy pants
I have a shotgun with "fiddle back" wood.
So it is not a violin
Viola. A little bigger than a violin, smaller than a cello.
@@sister_bertrille911 Thank you ! I learned something new.
@@TomokoMurakami I feel smarter thanks to you! 🙃 😂
They should have had him play a little, something beautiful and classic. Such a great story and obviously he isn't selling, but going to love it more for the rest of his life.
Yes
Yeah. She said it had a "big sound". You can tell just by the looks of it that's true. It would have been nice to hear it.
It's a beautiful instrument. I can understand why he wants to keep it, but a viola like his needs to be heard, and heard often.
Was wondering why no one played it for us?
it's his viola. he's keeping it.
Agreed. I'm sure that if he wants to keep it, but doesn't play it, any symphony player would be more than happy to borrow or rent it. Just so long as it's properly insured.
@@painstruck01 string instruments NEED to be played regularly in order to remain in top condition. Otherwise they deteriorate over time. If he doesn't play it himself, he could lend or rent it to a symphony player who can't afford to buy such a fine instrument. He would maintain ownership, and the instrument would be played daily. Win-win-win.
@@Yeshanu Not really, he should sell that sucker and enjoy the dough!! 😂
Think about him as a kid carrying around a 300k viola. 😂
soon as she said 41 made you knew it was 6 digits.
I hope we get an update when he eventually does choose to sell it.
Because of insurance costs no doubt
No. He will not sell. Passing it on to his children. It will only go up in value.
@@Itsisawnotiseen which child? Always the dilemma. Will cause problems within the family later. He's better off holding onto it and selling after his death and split funds.
@@teresamccartney1309 the oldest. That’s the way it goes. Life isn’t fair. Get used to it.
@@Itsisawnotiseen how do you know? Are you close to this pieces owner?
Very cool find, but even cooler is that this instrument is more valuable to the owner than mere money. ¡Bravo!
That's what they say, and I'm sure they mean it in the moment, but many of them start to have second thoughts. I could almost see it in this guy's face. You can buy a house with that kind of money.
@@JasonKifner
By the clothes, style, speech etc. I would guess that he and his family are "comfortable" and $300k isn't a worry....
Nice , would have like to hear it played
"I don't intend on selling it" LoL Either this dude is already rich or he's lying. heh. 300k is life changing for most people.
- How many violists does it take to change a light bulb?
- Only one, who can call a violinist to change it for them.
Did you know that violins and violas are actually the same size? It's just that violinist's heads are bigger.
When you work hard all your life and are living comfortably. Sometimes it's not worth selling no matter the price. That violin made him what he is today. Certain things are priceless
Very beautiful
Great to see my cousin John on this segment about his Viola. I recall when we were kids, him playing it.............
Fortunately, your cousin took very good care of it!
It's far more interesting to me to hear the details of how he was given this viola, and then to hear it was built by a true master of his trade. Its monetary value is of little interest and the fact that he plays it and appreciated it as an instrument and has no intention of selling it, shows its true value to him.
Honey looks like we're going to Asia for a vacation/$$ stay cation..🤔😝😂😉🤘
and he sold it 2 weeks mlater
Sounds like Bologna
Music to his ears
4:54 "you know what, in the United States, it's a little uncertain as to what the marketplace would be."
That's true enough. The price though..... pretty over the top! Probably just for television. I know of a Poggi viola that is selling for (well.....less than half of this TV price) and I could get it within a day or two if I contacted the seller tomorrow.
"In the Asian market, and the European market...." whoa let me stop you there. That is NOT a factor at all. It does NOT go up at all because of those markets. Not one bit.
A Poggi viola in "top-quality" condition, with the finest wood and the best craftsmanship could go for around $175k USD.
if you dont want to hear a woman say POGGI 76 times, here: 4:59
If you dont intend to play it - SELL IT!
It is a work of masterfull artistic craftsmanship, made for the sole purpose of playing masterful art!
It was made with such exceptional care, so that the masterful artist who plays the masterful art could give the listerners the inequivalent experince of having the masterful art played by a materful artist on a masterful instrument.
SELL IT, you selfish man.
Or at least loan it out to a solo master.
The back and scroll are lovely, but the top looks so bland. I would have never guessed it was such a master instrument from a picture of the belly.
Wow! Absolutely amazing!
SELL IT!!!!
I'm a little unsure about this valuation.... a violin by Poggi at Tarisio fetched $306.5k. A very reasonable price for probably one of his best violins. Are the violas worth more? Perhaps, since there are less... but sound is a big factor.
$330k USD is not a conservative price. It's a dream price. It's still of course a wonderful example of a Poggi (I've seen 5 [violins] in my lifetime). Each were worth no more than $180k AUD as of 2020.... convert that to USD...
I'm optimistic as a violist myself that violas are worth more since not many were made.
At least we weren't given some b&llsh1t price like $45 million which was the price associated with a Stradivari viola (which failed to get a bidder).
So that's a bit less than $150 USD... for a viola. $300k USD in the European market or Asian market? No... not quite that high. Perhaps $150k USD maximum.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Edit: I may be young, but I've worked with Charles Beare and others for more than a decade since I was an eager teenager dealing in violins and violas from many periods. I'm now 30 years old ( as of May 2023). I still don't think this is a 200k viola. I, myself, am a violist and it would be appropriate to say that I favour collecting violas over violins. But this price is just not right. There is a "Hill" viola (based on Da Saló) here in Australia going for $40k AUD but I know it was purchased for $20.5K AUD. The mark-up is absurd. It's much better to buy a plane ticket ($950/$1100 fly there and return plus $200/$300-odd insurance or even better: to buy a seat for your instrument) and go to Italy, elsewhere in Europe or New York to buy a high-quality instrument rather than shell out almost double just buy staying in your home town and paying what the ask/demand [ ....emphasise on *demand* ]....
Are you talking about an auction price or retail? I assumed her valuation (especially the insurance one) was retail, so presumably about 40% more than an auction estimate. It does seem high, I agree. A Poggi is also a fantastic investment. Claire Givens is an expert, highly respected, although I guess the opinion of an Italian appraiser might be worth having to confirm what she is saying.
@@nickyork8901 Long story short - I believe I'm talking about retail.
The *many* extra fees that come into auctions are insane. Even a painting worth a value of $10k at retail could go for $45 to the buyer...
Violist here. Lucky guy!
At that price there is strings attached.
Nothing to fret about...
Beautiful instrument. Thank you grandpa!
absolutely beautiful instrument
i'd love to hear it.. I payed £350 for my viola and it sounds pretty nice.. ;9)
Yes, for things like this there are certainly diminishing returns, but that's already factored into the market.
Holey Moley !!! 😁😁😁
Gentleman had a great father. $600 back then was a lot of money. Good for him, hopefully he passes to a child that will value it and take care of it as he has and keep it in the family.
It should not be handled by a young child again, lucky it is in good condition.
I'd part with one for $300,000
Get that beauty out of the sun. 😐😑😐
Beautiful viola. Wow!
Strata-whovious?
Sell !!!!
Can anyone explain to me the $100,000 price difference between markets? If you have that much to spend on a viola when you just fly to where it is $100,000 less
I dunno man...Maybe $200,000 is the same as $300,000 in the metric system?
Local interest is one, doesn't explain the asian market however. As for markets different, I'd bet a '67 Mustang would sell for more in USA than in Europe - unless bought by an american who shipped it back. Similarly, for example, a Remington painting which are all about the history of USA, europeans might appreciate the painting but have almost zero interest for the heritage (therefore not willing to pay a premium).
Imagine trying to sell a Tom Brady super bowl ring in Europe vs US.
Great Episode! Thank you and God Jehovah and Jesus Christ Bless You All. Jesus.
What a wonderful story!
Why is the value for insurance purposes always 10% or more higher than the potential sale value of any of these items on Antiques Roadshow?
No one ever intends to sell. Not wanting to seem money hungry. Maybe he is well off and really does not need more money. Then great inheritance for his heirs
The date seems to be 1964, not 1967. Not sure if it makes any difference…….
Grrr -- maybe it would be rude, but I would have loved to hear the thing. It sounds like he knows how to play it.
Nice, but not as rare and valuable as a Gasparo da Salò instrument….so few!
Good for you. What a wonderful gift your grandfather gave you. 😊