Kathleen Stock is not some fringe fanatical bigot. She is a highly qualified academic whose views I would say are supported by well over half the population of the UK. She has every right to be heard, whether you agree with her or not. We are supposed to be living in a free and democratic country. We are not living in North Korea.
@BreakthechochamberWhat precisely is "bigoted" about the belief that humans only come in two sexes and that sex can never change? What is bigoted about wanting men to be kept out of women's prisons, sports and other women's spaces? What is bigoted about reality? A "tu quoque" fallacy is only a fallacy if it's the only argument. It is a manifestly true observation that TRAs obstinately refuse to accept reason, logic and argument, and often act in violent, hateful and discriminatory towards gender atheists like Professor Stock and others.
No, they did not "clearly"' imply that her views were not bigot because they are popular. This point was clear and just. That's a conclusion you jumped to by yourself. Your leap to that conclusion reminds me however of the argument made by TRA. Which is that it is not what DS says but what she means.... To find her views bigoted leaps and bounds must be made to conclusions that were never stated. Once again there is a lot of feeling involved here in loco testimonio.
I'm in awe of this woman. Poised, articulate, logical, intelligent, firm. She wiped the floor with those arriving with the predictable hyperbole. Thank you Kathleen for your incredible spine. A pivotal moment in the evolution of this ideology.
She was tremendous. But I applaud the host too. It cannot have been easy jousting with her when: 1. She was more familiar with the subject matter 2. She was older and more confident and 3. His arguments were, and had to be by definition, bat-shit crazy. I thought he did a bloody good job. If he was my son, I'd have been very proud... and then I'd given him a serious talking to about the dangers of mind viruses and cults. Bright lad.
The young people leading the Oxford Union deserve enormous respect. Not only did they stand up to the mob, but they prepared well to have a deeply thought through debate. It's called being an adult and they are clearly well ahead of their peers in being ready for the real world. Well done.
I liked how everyone let the others talk, and not interrupt, or try to create a "gotcha" moment. Trans activists have a "no debate" policy, which is why there are none at this debate, I assume. I suspect that they are unable to debate this topic in a calm, rational manner, and deep down, they know perfectly well that their arguments just do not hold up to intellectual scrutiny.
Oxford Union absolutely did the right thing in welcoming Kathleen Stock to this debate. That's what Student Unions are for, and those that tried to cancel her should be ashamed.
Totally agree, it took guts on their part, but they did it and should be praised for this. However prejudiced the interviewer and committee members can be.
You are absolutely right, but my comment stands. Student Unions shouldn't be shouting down and deplatforming people whose opinions they disapprove of. The Oxford Union, albeit not the Oxford Student Union, set a good example.
Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
@@rosskirkwood8411 They won't watch, because they are afraid they will see how reasonable she really is. They need to continue to be able to see her as the monster and that means creating their own narrative and shutting anything else out at all costs..
She is witty, articulate, level-headed, charismatic, calm, brave, fiercely intelligent... everything those who try to silence and attack her are not. Thank you Kathleen for a brilliant talk. 😊🎉
It's not just about violence against women, dude. It's about women's FEELINGS. Feeling anxious, uncomfortable, embarrassed... whatever reason women might not want men in our spaces is reason enough for them not to be there. Why can't they use the gents? Oh, don't tell me...it's because of their damn feelings, right? Well then, let them campaign for their own spaces instead of invading ours.
Right on sis. And adding to that, why is it the burden of women to prove the statistics of harm in bathrooms, and yet no statistical proof is required for harm to trans identified men in male bathroom?.
Hear, hear.Don't forget religious women who can't share single sex spaces with males who are not their relatives. Women should have their own single sex spaces even if the threat of violence does not exist.
It's not only because of their feelings it's because of the very real threat of harm. When I first started noticing this trans surge, I saw a sickening video of two women beating the crap out of a trans woman for using the women's bathroom. However, with that said I don't think the solution is for society to be completely upended to negate the danger that trans women may face in their own toilets. Instead the vitriol currently being aimed at women such as yourself standing up for women's rights, should be directed at the 1% of men that would react to finding a bloke in a dress in a toilet with violence. And the male allies of the trans women seeking to use women's spaces, could expend their energy in threatening any male they see demeaning a trans woman in the toilet of their sex.
Women and girls also have a right to dignity and privacy and must never be forced to share private spaces with men! Our rights have been rolled back by this ideology.
Kudos to the Oxford Union for hosting such an informative dialogue. This kind of candid discussion is exactly what universities should encourage. Such difficult conversations help students build resiliency, hone their critical thinking skills, and open their minds to alternative views.
She’s brilliant, and absolutely did not deserve to lose her job. Parts of our world have lost their minds. How she still has her mind with all the wailing and abuse being sent her way, is remarkable. Cheers to Kathleen and also to the Oxford Union for inviting her under huge controversy.
the guy askes overtly complicated questions and Professor Stock answers in plain, easy to understand English, well done Professor Stock, It was great to hear her talk.
Absolutely. And I am constantly amazed that the safety of women, girls and children is constantly required now to take a back seat for the "comforts" of a very miniscule minority. And one other thing. The idea that the threat, and the danger is practically non-existent. Knowing that any male creep with criminal intent can simply declare himself female in the moment, gain access to female spaces and commit crimes against females, and then on top of it all, choose a female incarceration facility to work off his time. All of this being borrowed from what is the combined most vulnerable portion of society. We've lost our minds.
Professor stock, thank you for voicing the opinions held by the majority of the world, these obsolete and entitled individuals are the epitome of ignorance, you’re a brave and clearly well read WOMAN.
The mediator asked very convoluted and garbled questions. She handled them very well. Anyway, important that people like Stock get a platform to speak out in public. Well done to Oxford Union for hosting her.
Absolutely amazing woman. What she says makes absolute sense and very reasonable. She is a credit to her profession and the way that she has been cast out and misrepresented is awful. I will probably buy her book now.
reason...? sure? she did not bing in all the factors, becaus those she couldn't answer. no need to be hateful agains her, but for sure, she is not the peao of intelligencia - implying everybody else is only agenda driven and didn't think about this topic at all.
@@cosettapessa6417 sorry, that is not true. the big mouth polititions and institutions have the agende. and they then pick, what they call 'activists' - don't fall for the big fat ly, as if there would be a homogenous activist group. but, when people react publicly to something one person or a small group said or initiated, they give the bit impression of an 'agenda'. the agenda is in other peopls hands and they are the ones telling tales about global agendas, that often are just made up and a phantasma
Stock seems tired of having to explain her views for the hundredth time. The bottom line for me (and I'm a male) is why should women put up with men in their changing rooms? They obviously should not!
But Bruce, think of all of those poor trans-identified men with magical gendersouls that mean they feel just like a woman and where will THEY go? They obviously can’t go into the men’s changing rooms because “cis” men are a safety risk. You can’t make this shit up.
I am finding more modern areas are single use only , so the point would be moot in these cases. As far as sporting events, let’s get rid of all gender only events. Some high schools are allowing females to join male dominant teams like wrestling & football . Just get rid a gender and open up all sports to all .
@@rayRay-pw6gz Nonsense.... that has nothing to do with women having the right to their own spaces if they want to. Give the tiny minority trans their own spaces especially if they are still intact male but leave real women alone!!!
@@rayRay-pw6gz No this doesn’t work. Females competing in male sports are not a realistic risk to the males because males have biological advantages over women. They are bigger, stronger and faster on average. But put men on a women’s rugby team or swimming team and watch how quickly the men rise to the top.
As a woman who's been sexually assaulted having a safe space in the bathroom or changing room is necessary. Woman who have been traumatized by men can be re traumatized by having any kind of man in the bathroom where they feel vulnerable. It's that simple.
What are the statistics of trans-women being assaulted in Men's bathrooms or changing rooms? And if trans-women refuse to go into Men's restrooms because they don't feel safe, then how come nobody takes women seriously when they don't feel safe when men are allowed in women's bathrooms or changing rooms?
There are so many people who care about the women. Especially men. That's called being protective. But remember that protective attitude always leads to control.
Absolute best moment of the debate 30:30 when Stock said: "Make up your mind when you want to, but I have thought about it and I've come to a conclusion"
I really liked the last response, when she pushed back on the idea that doing anything other than affirming a child's trans feeling and providing drugs/surgery is harmful. Especially given that autism/anxiety/trauma/eating disorders/being gay/social pressures are often underlying causes, and that transitioning can lead to lifelong medical problems and regret.
How does the potential for harm to trans women i.e men, in the male changing rooms/loos become the responsibility of women. It is for men to question any violence committed in male spaces to trans women. Their behaviour should change.
It took me a long time to come to this conclusion and I've been thinking about the T issue for a long time and have even wrote a book on it. While I have no doubt that trans women could feel intimidated by some prejudiced men in men's bathrooms, if society is going to be upended by people demanding transwomen use the women's bathrooms, with half the population or more being labelled bigots with the expectation that we change our way of thinking, then it's actually far easier for 95% of the population to shame the 5% of actual bigots (maybe less in terms of those who would physically harm a trans woman using the men's bathroom) into changing their behaviour. So you're spot on in your far less wordy analysis!
The real threat of violence posed by men in this question is heavily overstated, but even if there was no violence whatsoever would not change the basic 'need' the trans person will feel towards entering the space that validates, rather than confronts, their 'identity'. I think we can all sympathise with that and acknowledge they would be personally happier and personally far more distressed between the different options, but that doesn't mean women must make concessions to their own, distinct, needs. Really the issue here is that the TRA movement pushed too hard in wanting these spaces thrown open to anyone with simply an implied sense of 'identity' - where we already were with people who 'passed' as their chosen gender accessing these spaces without incident was fine. No one is ever going to genital check people at the door to these spaces, but the space does need to discern people who present obviously as male from entering, otherwise the space isn't discerning at all.
Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.
@@Kritikanbringermen are more likely to be victims of violence because of other men, not women. Women almost never attack random women in the bathroom. And when they do, a woman is far more likely to be able to defend herself when the attacker is another woman as opposed to when the attacker is a man. The vast majority of women aren’t in constant fear of men. However, there are certain situations in which women are particularly vulnerable-such as in changing rooms and bathrooms-which is why men aren’t allowed in. Most men aren’t offended by this, in fact, many understand and agree that there’s a need to protect women and girls in certain situations based on innate biological vulnerabilities.
He fumbled on his words because, in all humility, he didn't (in some Jordan Petersen-esque preposterous and nonsensical flurry of words) try to gussy up some high-falutin, academic and overcomplicated response designed to sound impressive and pat - and to give the impression of being in possession of mastery of all the concepts. Instead, he fumbled his words - and I think you mean specifically the point just before handing over the discussion to the floor - precisely because of being unafraid to signal to all involved that he DOESN'T have all the answers (and certainly doesn't want to present as if he does), is a touch confused by it all, is approaching the discussion in the spirit of open minded and inquiring curiosity and by doing all that, hopes to inch and stumble and grope his way through the darkness and swamps to develop and enable greater clarity, understanding and tolerance amongst people - and to give policymakers the most - and best - information with which to create and enact social and legal frameworks which are the best compromise for the most people. You should, in contrast, be highly suspicious of anyone who doesn't fumble their words.....
He is little more than a kid. He did a good job, just lacking in life experience and probably lacks experience coming up against someone who is seasoned, experienced and highly intelligent.
I’ve read Material Girls and I’ve heard her interviewed at length on a number of occasions and I think Kathleen Stock is an honest and sensible voice. It seems to me many of her critics have based their criticism on heresay, rather than any real familiarity with her work and actual opinions.
This happens in most hotly contested topics. The number one problem is people believing what is said about someone and don’t listen to their actual truth.
Stock is pretty great here. Tide is definitely turning on this debate. These activists and their allies just seem like regressive, religious bullies that think sexist stereotypes are sacrosanct.
I see that, yet again, a TH-cam video on trans issues has it most upvoted comment seemingly in ignorance of what's actually in the video. I don't think you actually watched it. It was a neutral and to be honest, quite dull conversation. Many points and criticism were made vice versa and agreed on in a very professional manner. Frankly the part where the heavily disabled man was speaking was a million times more awkward. There is an age difference issue in the debaters as well. Where are these activists that you speak of? Point out to me when they appear in this video and explain where the 'bad behaviour' is.
@@josephkolodziejski6882the vast majority are problematic. The men showing up to women’s events in balaclavas threatening, following and screaming misogynist abuse at women and girls are probably the worst.. but the rhetoric is sexist and homophobic in general. You’re deviating from the point of the comment deliberately because you don’t have an argument. It’s obvious which side is rational and not abusive. Sorry, bullying isn’t going to work anymore.
@@josephkolodziejski6882 Changing context? What? Assuming you are aware of the context, what is being changed? There were activists outside the debate, anyone who has followed this story is aware of that, and OP was referring to them. What are you trying to contest here? To your second question, I am going to assume you are paraphrasing 'problematic' to summarise OP's complaints - 'religious bullies' etc? We have no way of knowing what proportion of the trans activists 'out there' would match that definition - but we also know there is a vocal amount above the number of 0 who have behaved in ways to match OP's description. Anyone who behaves that way probably deserves some amount of pushback - and it's on them to amend their behaviour.
This woman is supremely intelligent, articulate and brave. And every single point she makes has so much logic and good sense sustaining it, it is impossible to come out of this and not see how some sections of society have clearly gone insane when they deny the obvious truth behind her position. Thank you so much for hosting this interview. 🙏🏼
It’s sad really. I don’t think you need to be highly intelligent to know the difference between men and women. And yet she’s intelligent enough to gracefully work her way through these ridiculous questions.
The difference between her and some other commentators is that she is in no way offensive and she doesn’t insult anyone, she is just sensible and articulate.
she is ignoring a certain reality that is out there herself and has no answer for that. just her pointing finger on the part, that she herself does not agree with and found her own arguments for. have you ever met a person, who really is a trans person by birth, re-discovering what happened to her as baby, when she was operated, so she become a she, because the he side of her was underdeveloped? then in the 30s due to homon problems learn about all this, and have to decide, how you want to continue your gender, because your sex is inconclusiv? does she have answers for that? no. so don't gloryfy her. she is not the only one in the word, with brains, but others may have more access to other factors. and she does not respond to those. it is a tough topic and it is hard. in discussions like this and in real live. but it is not that easy, as some would like to have it. discuss and don't outcast people for bringing in discussions. but don't treat some like saints and the peak of intellekt.
@@nursen2106 Exactly. She's high on her intellectualism and privilege and impervious to parts of reality. Until it knocks at her door - there are still many who believe same-sex relationships are fiction...
@@rachelc6443 you are wrong. this topic was touched. and this group of intersex people - calling themseves transgender!!! are the ones, that originally started the discussionn. and if what you say is right, then it is even worth.. because they ignore the core issue and waste time on those, who may or may not have psycological issues to identify clearly. but your are wong, when you think, this discussion with Ms Stock would no effect/include exactly those, who cannot identify transgender by birth design. exactly because, they cannot identify with sex maybe exact by dna but not organically or the other way around. she is ignoring exactly that. it cannot be, that a society discusses gender issues and expecting in daily live there is the clarity of the fact, if a person right infront of you identifies trans or not is by design or by choice!
@Marina E it does amaze me how women will vote against their interests by voting Labour or Green or Lib Dem. I will spoil my ballot rather than vote for them. I can’t bring myself to vote Tory.
Great lecture. Well done to Oxford Union for standing up to mob pressure & reasserting the principle of free speech at Oxford. As everyone has now seen the position of Kathleen Stock really is perfectly reasonable & the hysterical & often threatening reaction to it casts the TQ+ activists in a very poor light.
Brilliant as ever. I'm not surprised that there are activists with opposing views who seek to silence Kathleen Stock. She is calm, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, sensible and erudite.
Exacltt what they are terrified of. She has the potential to appeal to the moderates. The extremes on the other side can be dismissed as extremists (in theroy) where as cathleen's position is far capable of bulldozing extreme.gender ideology. In a certain sense she is indeed far more dangerous (to a fragile arguement)
Not only that but she's an actual lesbian who has to listen to these troons appropriating her sexuality in the name of LGBTQ+ in order to attack her and other women and dismantle safeguarding.
Professor Stock, what a joy is to hear you speak beautifully, articulately non-violently, compassionately and rationally on this topic. So many activists do not comport themselves about this as you do. Pleasure hearing you. Can't wait to read your book.
At 58:28 the questioner states: "out of over 100 cases of sexual assault within prisons, only 5 were committed by transgender prisoners" and says that seems a small proportion. Only if transgender people make up 5 percent of the prison population. Are one out of twenty people in prison trans? Statistics without complete information can be misleading.
Quite so. So if, in fact, transgender people make up only half a percent of the population, that would, contrary to the impression either deliberately or inadvertently created by the "5% ..." statistic, clearly indicate that, far from assaults by trans people being notably low, are in fact ten times, relatively speaking, that of the rest of the population. Of course, that statistic - if true - would itself have to be carefully explained at the danger of a sudden increase of pearl clutching outrage leading to further division and even violence. The whole thing has the shadows of the incident where, about ten or fifteen years ago, I read of the pædiatrician who was attacked by a mob.... You and I might well roll our eyes exaggeratedly at the Laurel and Hardy preposterousness of such a scenario - but the scope of the ability by humans for ignorance, stupidity and acting before thinking should never be underestimated - not to mention that I very much doubt the hapless children's medicine specialist found that much comedic about his experiences....
@@andrewcalladine2507 this comment is hilarious said nothing about trans people in my comment just that i admire this woman’s strength and ability to speak so well despite people trying to silence her, she has a right to speak whether you agree or not. As they stated that’s what the union is about, think there have been way more controversial people speak in the past. But yeah sorry who knows i’m just transphobic right
@@andrewcalladine2507 Though, of course, queer theorists and their sympathisers declare that age of consent laws are also down to a manufactured moral panic so we can just call that assertion tactical rather than factual.
I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that, regardless of the possibility of sexual violence, women just don't want men around when they're getting undressed.
What a legend. I haven’t seen her put a foot wrong in the biggest minefield of current conversation. To balance reality, opinion, ideology, policy and pragmatism aswell as historical developments… using language so skilfully, to concede readily but also stand firm come what may, she is an inspiration.
So pleased KS got the warm welcome she deserves. She wiped the floor with the absolute nonsense. I hope more of these conversations will take place & be widely disseminated to the public.
No idea why the host thinks single-sex spaces are only about reducing assault risk. It's also due to privacy. Women, and I imagine men too, like privacy in certain situations. Wild that this guy thinks women should lose theirs because some men (very few) are demanding this.
I agree with you, but everything from the boys scouts to the working men's clubs have been taken away from the male. Now it's happening to the female, and she doesn't like it does she? I'm on your side but I wonder if women in general understand that sometimes males like their own space too? It's different with what's happening to women today because they're at potential risk at the hands of potential predators, but my point remains. There should be male and female places for those who might want them, and that should work both ways!
@@thehound9638 yeah i agree, lots of the women in this debate agree that male-only spaces are useful and not always Bad And Patriarchal (the examples brought up for the ones that can be bad are things like when a workplace has some informal structure of men who all promote each other for example, because it increases nepotism). Helen Joyce of Sex Matters reposted a really sweet Guardian article about a men's support group, I dont remember the title of it though. (Sex Matters also talk about how single sex spaces matter for men too, their report on single sex spaces includes men feeling awkward in unisex toilets, as well as religious men having reasons for sex segregated spaces). Also MrMenno on youtube talks a lot about how this affects gay male saunas, discussion groups, dating apps etc.
Apart from the bullshit she spouted. Talking about the types convictions that transwomen are put in prison for doesn't prove anything about transwomen in general, because the vast majority of them are not in prison at all. It's also not clear if they were transwomen when they committed the crimes, and who they committed them against. A fairer statistic would be the proportion of cisgendered men who have been prosecuted for sexual attacks, versus trans women for the same thing. I can guarantee the rate will be far higher for cisgendered men.
Can you hear the hysteric mob of - I can't believe we have to call them that - Oxford University students outside the Union hall? I studied at Oxford and I am ashamed that the culture of free enquiry appears to have been utterly eradicated, catalysed by the self-serving and smug transgressions of diversity and inclusion officers.
May I ask, are the public allowed certain freedoms to walk around the grounds of Oxford University or would they have to be invited in by a current Student or Fellow ? I am having a hard time comprehending that what sounds to be a sizeable mob would be so prevalent at Oxford.
@@louisewright1031 Couple of things to clarify: Oxford University doesn’t have a centralized campus; instead, it consists of individual colleges scattered across the city. The Oxford Union itself backs onto a public street. None of this is relevant however as the mob in question isn't made up of members of the general public but is composed of students..
Discussion, debate, and differing opinions being silenced by irrational devices is inhumane. Kathleen has a remarkable iron resolve in the face of coercion. The world needs more Kathleens and thank you "Oxford Union" for sharing this moment.
Brilliant Professor! How amazing her patience for being repeatedly asked the same question. It's a shame that such sane voices are forced out of academia for addressing genuine concerns about children & adolescents.
@@ScottytheBlueBunny There is nothing hateful about defending the sex based rights of women and girls. Nothing hateful at all. These sex based rights are essential to preserve the dignity privacy and safety of women and girls. They do not exist to solve male problems.
As someone from 3rd world country struggling with recession and inflation, I am appalled by how this woman was stipulated to spend such a long time explaining very simple matter.
@Breakthechochamber "Relevant experts" AKA the opinions i agree with. He is right, the identitarian left is slowing the group, we should be focusing on defunding war machines, the environement but here we are debating what is a woman and a man with a bunch of ivory-towered privileged bourgeois.
She wouldn't have to if men didn't exist who insist they are women when clearly they are not creating safeguarding issues & impacting our rights. It's a male driven issue not a female driven issue. These men were given an inch & have taken a mile. Sadly some women also support this nonsense leading women like Stock to defend the obvious that yes should be simple & have long been accepted
She has legendary patience and lives in a world where language is tethered to physical reality and to norms of shared space. The questioner, on the other hand, is deploying a vocabulary with no listening, no acknowledgement. Free-floating vocabulary free of all measurement is the new language of rights.
The imitation of mob rule and violence in the background speaks volumes and helps Stock make her point without much disagreement. We need more public intellectuals like Stock.
Stock on the protest: "I don't mind it. I wasn't traumatized by it. People in my generation would do things like that..." She is amazing. Finally, someone who ISN'T traumatized by people having alternative views!
do things like that? she owes her platform to the ppl who "did things like that". she would be out there in the 50s when someone was arguing that women shouldn't vote bcz of inferiority of biology and temperament. go away and stay away.
@Sparagmos she's the biggest yawn who will only bring harm to CIS women by ignoring the shared interests with Transwomen. She has 0 evidence for her biased philosophy. She's trying to capitalise off selling some kind of genetic predisposition for immunity to the harm she promotes. Men do not dress up like women to adress them. they do it well enough as is.
Very impressed with Kathleen Stock as a calm, intelligent speaker who tied Matthew in more knots than Harry Houdini would've managed but in a gentle way! Every Question was answered clearly and I look forward to reading Kathleen's book.
she's a great speaker, I admire her courage, her intelligence, and the strength of her words. it's a weird time to be alive... but history will remember those who stood up for the truth when reality was under attack.
i got a good chuckle when she said "...so, im afraid im going to have to push back on that" after systematically deconstructing the interviewers loaded statement. what a class act.
That’s really a tragedy for a university to lose a person of such stature and ability, a prof with a true gift for communicating with young people. I very much hope Ms. Stock can resume teaching in peace one day.
I'm pissed off that she was driven out by mania. I'm not mad that we all get to hear her speak now, though. She's actually brilliant. She is what articulate means.
@@benhall2235 She's not pragmatic, I'm all for people having the freedom to say what they want but she doesn't have any solutions to anything. Her entire intellectual existence is based on a bunch of grievances she has with the existence of transgender people, but no whiff of any sort of real world solutions. It's the complete opposite of pragmatism haha.
After watching this video and listening to her articulating so well, I now think the University of Sussex which failed her, and other academics who did not support her enough, should be ashamed.
@@keren9322 I suggest you keep looking. You'll see how these people are backed and funded by the worst, and I mean THE WORST people on earth. Tthe Heritage foundation and others
I agree… Nearly thirty years ago I took a history class in college that was dual listed as a women’s studies class, and the profesor graduated, and previously taught at, University of California Berkeley around 1970-80; probably the most liberal college in the U.S. at that time… However, my fears she would try to push an agenda were unfounded… While she was a lesbian, and a feminist, she was pragmatic and did want critical analysis of the women we studied, some of which were Muslim from Middle East countries… Point is, Kathleen reminds me of that professor; yes she holds some liberal views, but is pragmatic and objective and not trying to force some narrative or ideology on people!
Just incredible, Kathleen. You are incredible. I will be forever grateful for your efforts to encourage healthy discourse. This must take such a toll on you and be very tiring. I'm so sorry for all the backlash. Please know we so grateful. I will read your book ❤
It was a bit exhausting to listen to the moderator use rapid-fire, complex sentences and unsupported assumptions to overwhelm his guest with a flurry of words that, on reflection, did nothing to advance his points. To her enormous credit, Professor Stock remained calm and focused, cutting through his posh puffery with clear logic and factual data. Oxford seems to attract and indulge students with enormous egos and little self-reflection or humility. At times, the results can be insufferable.
Very well said 👏 my thoughts exactly... and in parts, it felt very pompous, designed to try and bamboozle. Fortunately, it didn't phase Kathleen Stock.
Kathleen is so great - clear, warm, compassionate, brilliant - intellectually far far above her abusers. The interviewer was hopeless - convolutedly incomprehensible - but Kathleen 'saved' him with courtesy and grace.
"Where's the evidence?" "Here" "Yes, but address the idea I just made up" "I thought you asked this." "Yes, I did" "Then here's evidence to address that" "Oh, that wasn't what I was asking".
It took a lot of nerve to do what he did. He did a great job, it’s just that the facts were not on his side. I think we need to be kinder about people like this, who choose to be civil and have a discussion- even if we disagree with them. Otherwise, it gives them an excuse not to have a discussion at all. And these civilized debates with both sides in attendance are so important.
It was a discussion about some fairly sophisticated and philosophical topics. She's a philosophy professor. He's an undergrad. He did a damn good job. The best job I've seen fleshing out Stock's philosophical views, better than all the more "friendly" interviewers. This discussion is incredibly informative on Stock's views, thanks to him.
It's irritating how the burden is placed on women to disprove the unprovable. They are asking to change what already belonged to us. The onus is on them to prove to US why we should allow them into our things.
@@cassandras7399 I meant they want us to disprove why a made up category should not be allowed to destroy what is ours. We're being forced to comply with their premise, even though that's never been proven or shown to us how/why we should agree. Rather, we've been given no choice, and somehow that's not obviously blatant injustice and authoritarian and a violation of human rights?
Violence on the far left is not limited to men. Look at any of the hundreds of videos of far left groups, trans activists included and you'll see that when violence does occur women are often involved and even the instigators. Check the mugshots of people arrested for violence at demonstrations and other activities and you'll see a lot of female faces. From antifa to BLM to trans activists the far left have said for years now that violence against those they deem "fascists" is not only acceptable but necessary. Having said that I'm worried for her safety as well.
Had to stop a couple of times to take a breath so that my own inner thoughts didn't cloud what I was hearing and wanting to understand. Gosh Professor Kathleen Stock, you are so good at keeping calm! So many moments of frustration there, watching on. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! And thanks Oxford for providing the platform. More of this please. Because women and girls matter xx
I'm simply shocked that this is the level of logic ability of an outstanding Oxford student. As a latin woman, couldn't help to think strongly about the colonialist privileges of ordinary men in the global North. Well, nothing new about men trying so hard to defend other men's rights, to the detriment of women. You may have your money, power and colonizing institutions -- we won't be erased, neither do natural reality. Women, Life, Freedom. Thank you Kathleen for your patience and teaching, greetings from Brazil.
Superb! The first public discussion of the subject I've seen that didn't degenerate into insanity and disingenuous accusations of transphobia and fascism! Pretty heroic stuff from Dr Stock. The more of her I see and read, the more I admire her. Can't wait to enjoy her book on the philosophy of music
Aye, but believing that someone can actually be born in the wrong body as opposed to just feeling like they are in the wrong body is akin to religious belief.
@@ibitron1 You're anchoring your assertion in the notion of belief. And while it is true that religion and ideology are both closely related to belief, "ideological" is more accurate because the anthropological assumptions undergirding gender ideology derive from philosophy (Firestone, Derrida, Foucault, Butler, etc), as opposed to religion.
Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place? What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces. Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted? And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries? Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom! Facts > feelings.
@@Kritikanbringer This truly, truly takes the prize as one of let's say the top five dumbest comments I've ever read online. So much baffling dumbness in one place, just piling up, one incredibly stupid line after another. Bravo. That took effort.
Re bathrooms: it's not just about the risk of sexual violence (also flashing, voyeurism and being filmed), it's also about the comfort of women. If women know there are no bathroom facilities in public spaces where there are no male bodied people and if where they see a male bodied person they cannot legally challenge that person, then many women will self exclude from public spaces. They will be back on the urinary leash. We campaign for safe female bathrooms in lower income countries, but now expect women in the western countries to share with any man who declares himself to be a woman, no matter his appearance. It's utterly batshit bonkers.
Listen to the fanatics outside - what a bunch of idiots. Well done Kathleen 🎉, from a G to an L we need more people like you flashing a spotlight onto this issue. V brave considering the fanatics outside x
Standing ovation for Kathleen! How’s does glueing your hands to the floor further the debate? The trans community could do a lot more for itself if it actually tackled the arguments
Debate is the arena for logic and reason, not feelings. Gluing your hands to a debate hall is the equivalent of bringing a football to a chess game. They’re just not playing the same game.
It is i possible to form a rational defense because they dont just want equality and to be left alone. They want you to affirm their delusion. They want to shove it in your face, force it upon children and force others to accept and verbalize a blatant lie.
They can't tackle the arguments though. That's the issue. It's the reason #NoDebate was a thing at the very start of their push for what they claim are rights but we all know are privileges. If your starting point - if what everything else you go on to say hinges on - is the idea that some men can be women, then you come into any debate unable to tackle opposing arguments, as the opposing arguments deal in facts.
They won't debate because they know that they would lose. The points they are protesting on are untrue and can be factually proven so. They behave like three to five year olds who simply scream and throw their toys about, hold their breath til they turn blue and stamp off slamming the door. Thinking that'll get them their own way
From a US Citizen: Thank you Kathleen Stock for all that you’re doing to speak for those who are unable or unwilling to! I can see how challenging navigating these environments are in every YT Channel I watch you speak on & you’re doing it very well so thank you, thank you, thank you 🎉
They would be the mistresses of the suffragettes husband demanding more attention and money or she'll stamp her heels together an give the silent treatment to the married man.
It falls down on every level in terms of logic or rationality - even on its own terms very often. That is why the efforts to prevent discussion were so vehement. Many of the 'prime-movers' know damned well that it is an anti-liberation, anti-tolerance movement riding on the back of a genuine liberation movement. That is exactly its appeal to the petty tyrant that is somewhere there in all of us - something which apparently cannot be resisted by most people with any sort of authority. A Christian theologian I discussed this with was of the opinion that any laws compelling recognition of chosen gender actually go further than Taliban compelled religion - because religion at least is a postulation about the world whereas trans ideology involves compelling adherence to a postulation, about subjective experience and the very essence of what a person is, to which very few people or philosophies would suscribe
It's bc they are morally corrupt & stupid. You don't win an argument by shoving there agenda down our throats. Both sides have a point but I will change my opinion the minute they become nasty & atrack me. That shows they are brainwashed & just regurgitate the association's stand point which is at times ridiculous.
Germaine Greer was way off on some things but accurate on this issue: GG: "Having it off doesn't make you a woman." Interviewer: "You're offending people." GG: "I don't care! I get offended every day!"
Amazing lady. A real treasure. So glad she was able to speak here in spite of the intimidation tactics of the trans lobby. More power to Kathleen Stock!
Yep. That part summed the entire thing up. When they talk about the harm to trans women in men’s bathrooms, it reminds me of the ‘what was she wearing’ argument. Women are expected to take on the role of motherly and empathetic to everyone, while men are allowed to essentially be seen as roving beasts, and instead of addressing that, we have to let the ones that dress like us, in our bathrooms. And we are expected to take the blame if any harm comes to them by protecting ourselves.
The young man interviewing her is already showing his bias by calling men and women 'cis' men and 'cis' women, as a man I object to that term, it was made up recently by trans activists, who constantly whine if we get their pronouns wrong!
The term "Cis" has its origins in Latin and simply means "on this side of...."... It's not something Trans Activists "made up".. Actually get a clue, bro...
@@scottmcmahon86 irrc it was borrowed from organic chemistry where cis and trans are mirror image molecules - cis and trans versions of the same isomer so to speak. IMHO Brother Bill might reasonably suggest that his maleness is not the opposite or a mirror image of trans-maleness. Peace out brother Sammy!
@@scottmcmahon86 The term is indeed Latin but it's new to prefix everyone with this term. It certainly seems very unpopular and creates yet more resistance against the belief in a gendered soul.
@@scottmcmahon86 The point is that the prefix ‘cis’ isn’t needed. We already have the prefix ‘trans’ for all transgender people; for example, a ‘transwoman’ is a male who transitioned into a woman. What one might call the default is just calling people ‘man’ or ‘woman’ without any prefix - here we can assume that they are a male man or female woman. By adding the prefix ‘cis’ you are unnecessarily complicating language.
Kathleen Stock is not some fringe fanatical bigot.
She is a highly qualified academic whose views I would say are supported by well over half the population of the UK.
She has every right to be heard, whether you agree with her or not. We are supposed to be living in a free and democratic country. We are not living in North Korea.
A highly qualified academic who is stating something pretty simple.
@BreakthechochamberWhat precisely is "bigoted" about the belief that humans only come in two sexes and that sex can never change? What is bigoted about wanting men to be kept out of women's prisons, sports and other women's spaces? What is bigoted about reality?
A "tu quoque" fallacy is only a fallacy if it's the only argument. It is a manifestly true observation that TRAs obstinately refuse to accept reason, logic and argument, and often act in violent, hateful and discriminatory towards gender atheists like Professor Stock and others.
No, they did not "clearly"' imply that her views were not bigot because they are popular. This point was clear and just. That's a conclusion you jumped to by yourself. Your leap to that conclusion reminds me however of the argument made by TRA. Which is that it is not what DS says but what she means.... To find her views bigoted leaps and bounds must be made to conclusions that were never stated. Once again there is a lot of feeling involved here in loco testimonio.
Supported by 95% of the population, not all feel comfortable to say so.
Agree with all of this.
I'm in awe of this woman.
Poised, articulate, logical, intelligent, firm. She wiped the floor with those arriving with the predictable hyperbole.
Thank you Kathleen for your incredible spine. A pivotal moment in the evolution of this ideology.
All, by the way, with a crowd outside audibly baying for her blood.
I was about to say the same. The host and questioners all seemed incoherent in comparison to her.
She was tremendous. But I applaud the host too. It cannot have been easy jousting with her when:
1. She was more familiar with the subject matter
2. She was older and more confident
and 3. His arguments were, and had to be by definition, bat-shit crazy.
I thought he did a bloody good job. If he was my son, I'd have been very proud... and then I'd given him a serious talking to about the dangers of mind viruses and cults.
Bright lad.
She was my professor! Great woman! Really lovely. Shame she got bullied out of my university by children
@@nickpharoah, Great and lowly are RELATIVE. 😉
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
The young people leading the Oxford Union deserve enormous respect. Not only did they stand up to the mob, but they prepared well to have a deeply thought through debate. It's called being an adult and they are clearly well ahead of their peers in being ready for the real world. Well done.
here here :)
Indeed 👏👏👏
Totally agree, it's very refreshing to see from young people and fills me with hope.
I liked how everyone let the others talk, and not interrupt, or try to create a "gotcha" moment.
Trans activists have a "no debate" policy, which is why there are none at this debate, I assume. I suspect that they are unable to debate this topic in a calm, rational manner, and deep down, they know perfectly well that their arguments just do not hold up to intellectual scrutiny.
In what sense do they not live in the real world?
Oxford Union absolutely did the right thing in welcoming Kathleen Stock to this debate. That's what Student Unions are for, and those that tried to cancel her should be ashamed.
Totally agree, it took guts on their part, but they did it and should be praised for this. However prejudiced the interviewer and committee members can be.
@@marysnowieand they are indeed.
completely agree
oxford union is completely separate organisation from the oxford university STUDENT union lmfao
You are absolutely right, but my comment stands. Student Unions shouldn't be shouting down and deplatforming people whose opinions they disapprove of. The Oxford Union, albeit not the Oxford Student Union, set a good example.
She's so clear and for her to be seen by a group as some sort of monster is genuinely bananas.
Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies.
🤡
To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
The crowd outside…I wonder how many will watch what they are protesting?
@@steven_king The crowd outside…I wonder how many will watch what they are protesting?
Cultural Marxism
If it doesn’t stop, our lives will
@@rosskirkwood8411 They won't watch, because they are afraid they will see how reasonable she really is. They need to continue to be able to see her as the monster and that means creating their own narrative and shutting anything else out at all costs..
Dr. Stock has far more patience than I have! She is a hero!
I don’t know how she can bear the tsunami of hate that’s directed toward her. She’s a hero.
It's bc they don't have an logical argument.
A real hero ❤
0:19: "Her book ..." with extra syllable between 'Material' and 'Girls'.
When you know the truth and have evidence behind you it’s easy to stand up for what’s right
I don't know how someone could put any weight into the opinions of dysregulated adult children.
She is witty, articulate, level-headed, charismatic, calm, brave, fiercely intelligent... everything those who try to silence and attack her are not. Thank you Kathleen for a brilliant talk. 😊🎉
She’s so dull
@@helenalovelock1030
I don't think so.
It's not just about violence against women, dude. It's about women's FEELINGS. Feeling anxious, uncomfortable, embarrassed... whatever reason women might not want men in our spaces is reason enough for them not to be there. Why can't they use the gents? Oh, don't tell me...it's because of their damn feelings, right? Well then, let them campaign for their own spaces instead of invading ours.
Right on sis. And adding to that, why is it the burden of women to prove the statistics of harm in bathrooms, and yet no statistical proof is required for harm to trans identified men in male bathroom?.
Hear, hear.Don't forget religious women who can't share single sex spaces with males who are not their relatives. Women should have their own single sex spaces even if the threat of violence does not exist.
It's not only because of their feelings it's because of the very real threat of harm. When I first started noticing this trans surge, I saw a sickening video of two women beating the crap out of a trans woman for using the women's bathroom. However, with that said I don't think the solution is for society to be completely upended to negate the danger that trans women may face in their own toilets. Instead the vitriol currently being aimed at women such as yourself standing up for women's rights, should be directed at the 1% of men that would react to finding a bloke in a dress in a toilet with violence. And the male allies of the trans women seeking to use women's spaces, could expend their energy in threatening any male they see demeaning a trans woman in the toilet of their sex.
Thanks, having naked men in women's locker rooms watching women change is a sex crime even if they don't physically touch the women.
Women and girls also have a right to dignity and privacy and must never be forced to share private spaces with men! Our rights have been rolled back by this ideology.
You are a hero of our times Kathleen. We must stay based in reality and also protect women & children
what about men for goodness sake?! Stop blaming men, it’s a cheap and easy strategy
@@markkamp2255 where in my comment do I mention “men?”
@@markkamp2255Don't feel so attacked - many of the TRAs are clearly biological females - though probably rarely 'identify' as such!😂
@@taylorlaing294 ikr! This is madness
Kudos to the Oxford Union for hosting such an informative dialogue. This kind of candid discussion is exactly what universities should encourage. Such difficult conversations help students build resiliency, hone their critical thinking skills, and open their minds to alternative views.
Students who do not wish to hear views that may differ from their own should not be studying at university.
@@moraymac2922 Oxford clearly isn’t what it used to be
She’s brilliant, and absolutely did not deserve to lose her job. Parts of our world have lost their minds. How she still has her mind with all the wailing and abuse being sent her way, is remarkable. Cheers to Kathleen and also to the Oxford Union for inviting her under huge controversy.
the guy askes overtly complicated questions and Professor Stock answers in plain, easy to understand English, well done Professor Stock,
It was great to hear her talk.
How she kept her cool and could think and respond despite all that wailing outside was incredible. What a woman.
Wailing with a lisp. Oxford...
Only 5 mins in and it’s disturbing the noise they are making.
I thought the same thing.
@@m__f__k
Sad but true. Adults who want to have a mature discussion go inside and the kids go play outside.
Absolutely.
And I am constantly amazed that the safety of women, girls and children is constantly required now to take a back seat for the "comforts" of a very miniscule minority.
And one other thing. The idea that the threat, and the danger is practically non-existent.
Knowing that any male creep with criminal intent can simply declare himself female in the moment, gain access to female spaces and commit crimes against females, and then on top of it all, choose a female incarceration facility to work off his time.
All of this being borrowed from what is the combined most vulnerable portion of society. We've lost our minds.
Can schools & universities focus on creating more Kathleen Stock’s please!? Such an articulate and honest inspiration 🙏🏻😎👌
Kathleen stock we love you. Thankyou for your strength in doing this
Professor stock, thank you for voicing the opinions held by the majority of the world, these obsolete and entitled individuals are the epitome of ignorance, you’re a brave and clearly well read WOMAN.
The mediator asked very convoluted and garbled questions. She handled them very well.
Anyway, important that people like Stock get a platform to speak out in public. Well done to Oxford Union for hosting her.
The mediator? Do you mean the boy with glasses and an adenoid infection?
The interviewer was out of his depth.
Yeh the interviewer could have cut if short...and said the same thing on a shorter way. But likes putting in long convoluted sentences
Yeah, the tens of thousands of pounds spent on his education, and he still couldn't ask an intelligent question?
@@Johnconno Yes the Jacob Rees-Mogg/Jack Whitehall impersonator
Absolutely amazing woman. What she says makes absolute sense and very reasonable. She is a credit to her profession and the way that she has been cast out and misrepresented is awful. I will probably buy her book now.
reason...? sure? she did not bing in all the factors, becaus those she couldn't answer. no need to be hateful agains her, but for sure, she is not the peao of intelligencia - implying everybody else is only agenda driven and didn't think about this topic at all.
@@nursen2106all the activists have the agenda. Not all trans are activists.
@@cosettapessa6417 sorry, that is not true. the big mouth polititions and institutions have the agende. and they then pick, what they call 'activists' - don't fall for the big fat ly, as if there would be a homogenous activist group. but, when people react publicly to something one person or a small group said or initiated, they give the bit impression of an 'agenda'. the agenda is in other peopls hands and they are the ones telling tales about global agendas, that often are just made up and a phantasma
Stock seems tired of having to explain her views for the hundredth time. The bottom line for me (and I'm a male) is why should women put up with men in their changing rooms? They obviously should not!
But Bruce, think of all of those poor trans-identified men with magical gendersouls that mean they feel just like a woman and where will THEY go? They obviously can’t go into the men’s changing rooms because “cis” men are a safety risk.
You can’t make this shit up.
Exactly. Men and women should have the right to their own single sex spaces.
I am finding more modern areas are single use only , so the point would be moot in these cases. As far as sporting events, let’s get rid of all gender only events. Some high schools are allowing females to join male dominant teams like wrestling & football . Just get rid a gender and open up all sports to all .
@@rayRay-pw6gz Nonsense.... that has nothing to do with women having the right to their own spaces if they want to. Give the tiny minority trans their own spaces especially if they are still intact male but leave real women alone!!!
@@rayRay-pw6gz No this doesn’t work. Females competing in male sports are not a realistic risk to the males because males have biological advantages over women. They are bigger, stronger and faster on average. But put men on a women’s rugby team or swimming team and watch how quickly the men rise to the top.
As a woman who's been sexually assaulted having a safe space in the bathroom or changing room is necessary. Woman who have been traumatized by men can be re traumatized by having any kind of man in the bathroom where they feel vulnerable. It's that simple.
Do you feel only in the bathroom vunerable?
I am from poland and we often have Changing rooms for both genders there. And the most woman feel much safer because of this.
@@rafalrafal3469 - most women ? Speak for yourself.
@@GraceCanadaful yes. Not all woman are mentaly ill or traumatized. The most are not
What are the statistics of trans-women being assaulted in Men's bathrooms or changing rooms? And if trans-women refuse to go into Men's restrooms because they don't feel safe, then how come nobody takes women seriously when they don't feel safe when men are allowed in women's bathrooms or changing rooms?
“Nobody seems to care about the women…. and that’s what I care about.”🙏❤️Thank you Kathleen Stock
There are so many people who care about the women. Especially men. That's called being protective. But remember that protective attitude always leads to control.
I am with you!!! ❤
Absolute best moment of the debate 30:30 when Stock said: "Make up your mind when you want to, but I have thought about it and I've come to a conclusion"
I really liked the last response, when she pushed back on the idea that doing anything other than affirming a child's trans feeling and providing drugs/surgery is harmful. Especially given that autism/anxiety/trauma/eating disorders/being gay/social pressures are often underlying causes, and that transitioning can lead to lifelong medical problems and regret.
He comes across as arrogant, naive and foolish.
Hands down the best part of the debate was 33:15
Thank you Kathleen for standing up for what you (we) believe in, particularly on our behalf.
The role of a philosopher is not to stand up for the beliefs of others.
That long applause when Stock came in the room, was heartwarming.
Yes 😊
1:01 ⬅️ start 👏👏👏
Yes! 🥰
And clearly sent her detractors into a hormonal rage.
I got very emotional hearing the applause for this wonderful woman.
How does the potential for harm to trans women i.e men, in the male changing rooms/loos become the responsibility of women. It is for men to question any violence committed in male spaces to trans women. Their behaviour should change.
Exactly
"Women are responsible for whatever men do" - 1st rule of misogyny
Exactly !!!
It took me a long time to come to this conclusion and I've been thinking about the T issue for a long time and have even wrote a book on it. While I have no doubt that trans women could feel intimidated by some prejudiced men in men's bathrooms, if society is going to be upended by people demanding transwomen use the women's bathrooms, with half the population or more being labelled bigots with the expectation that we change our way of thinking, then it's actually far easier for 95% of the population to shame the 5% of actual bigots (maybe less in terms of those who would physically harm a trans woman using the men's bathroom) into changing their behaviour. So you're spot on in your far less wordy analysis!
The real threat of violence posed by men in this question is heavily overstated, but even if there was no violence whatsoever would not change the basic 'need' the trans person will feel towards entering the space that validates, rather than confronts, their 'identity'. I think we can all sympathise with that and acknowledge they would be personally happier and personally far more distressed between the different options, but that doesn't mean women must make concessions to their own, distinct, needs. Really the issue here is that the TRA movement pushed too hard in wanting these spaces thrown open to anyone with simply an implied sense of 'identity' - where we already were with people who 'passed' as their chosen gender accessing these spaces without incident was fine. No one is ever going to genital check people at the door to these spaces, but the space does need to discern people who present obviously as male from entering, otherwise the space isn't discerning at all.
He fumbles on his words because he’s unsure. She is eloquent and never falters. Facts vs Feelings.
No, he is just young and unexperienced, whereas the interviewed dude is waaay older
Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place?
What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces.
Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted?
And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries?
Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom!
Facts > feelings.
@@Kritikanbringermen are more likely to be victims of violence because of other men, not women. Women almost never attack random women in the bathroom. And when they do, a woman is far more likely to be able to defend herself when the attacker is another woman as opposed to when the attacker is a man.
The vast majority of women aren’t in constant fear of men. However, there are certain situations in which women are particularly vulnerable-such as in changing rooms and bathrooms-which is why men aren’t allowed in. Most men aren’t offended by this, in fact, many understand and agree that there’s a need to protect women and girls in certain situations based on innate biological vulnerabilities.
He fumbled on his words because, in all humility, he didn't (in some Jordan Petersen-esque preposterous and nonsensical flurry of words) try to gussy up some high-falutin, academic and overcomplicated response designed to sound impressive and pat - and to give the impression of being in possession of mastery of all the concepts.
Instead, he fumbled his words - and I think you mean specifically the point just before handing over the discussion to the floor - precisely because of being unafraid to signal to all involved that he DOESN'T have all the answers (and certainly doesn't want to present as if he does), is a touch confused by it all, is approaching the discussion in the spirit of open minded and inquiring curiosity and by doing all that, hopes to inch and stumble and grope his way through the darkness and swamps to develop and enable greater clarity, understanding and tolerance amongst people - and to give policymakers the most - and best - information with which to create and enact social and legal frameworks which are the best compromise for the most people.
You should, in contrast, be highly suspicious of anyone who doesn't fumble their words.....
He is little more than a kid. He did a good job, just lacking in life experience and probably lacks experience coming up against someone who is seasoned, experienced and highly intelligent.
I’ve read Material Girls and I’ve heard her interviewed at length on a number of occasions and I think Kathleen Stock is an honest and sensible voice. It seems to me many of her critics have based their criticism on heresay, rather than any real familiarity with her work and actual opinions.
The people vilifying her don't read books!
This happens in most hotly contested topics. The number one problem is people believing what is said about someone and don’t listen to their actual truth.
It is always the way. It was the same with Jordan Peterson.
Stock is pretty great here. Tide is definitely turning on this debate. These activists and their allies just seem like regressive, religious bullies that think sexist stereotypes are sacrosanct.
I see that, yet again, a TH-cam video on trans issues has it most upvoted comment seemingly in ignorance of what's actually in the video.
I don't think you actually watched it. It was a neutral and to be honest, quite dull conversation. Many points and criticism were made vice versa and agreed on in a very professional manner. Frankly the part where the heavily disabled man was speaking was a million times more awkward.
There is an age difference issue in the debaters as well.
Where are these activists that you speak of? Point out to me when they appear in this video and explain where the 'bad behaviour' is.
@@josephkolodziejski6882 Think OP was referring to what was taking place outside - I'm going to assume you probably know that.
@@euanmacleod3738 Changing context are we?
What the actual proportion of the 'problematic' trans activists out there?
@@josephkolodziejski6882the vast majority are problematic. The men showing up to women’s events in balaclavas threatening, following and screaming misogynist abuse at women and girls are probably the worst.. but the rhetoric is sexist and homophobic in general. You’re deviating from the point of the comment deliberately because you don’t have an argument. It’s obvious which side is rational and not abusive. Sorry, bullying isn’t going to work anymore.
@@josephkolodziejski6882 Changing context? What? Assuming you are aware of the context, what is being changed? There were activists outside the debate, anyone who has followed this story is aware of that, and OP was referring to them. What are you trying to contest here?
To your second question, I am going to assume you are paraphrasing 'problematic' to summarise OP's complaints - 'religious bullies' etc? We have no way of knowing what proportion of the trans activists 'out there' would match that definition - but we also know there is a vocal amount above the number of 0 who have behaved in ways to match OP's description. Anyone who behaves that way probably deserves some amount of pushback - and it's on them to amend their behaviour.
This woman is supremely intelligent, articulate and brave. And every single point she makes has so much logic and good sense sustaining it, it is impossible to come out of this and not see how some sections of society have clearly gone insane when they deny the obvious truth behind her position.
Thank you so much for hosting this interview. 🙏🏼
It’s sad really. I don’t think you need to be highly intelligent to know the difference between men and women. And yet she’s intelligent enough to gracefully work her way through these ridiculous questions.
The difference between her and some other commentators is that she is in no way offensive and she doesn’t insult anyone, she is just sensible and articulate.
32:55 "When you get lost in the fiction and you can't talk about reality anymore we've got a problem." Yes! Thank you Ms Kathleen Stock.
she is ignoring a certain reality that is out there herself and has no answer for that. just her pointing finger on the part, that she herself does not agree with and found her own arguments for. have you ever met a person, who really is a trans person by birth, re-discovering what happened to her as baby, when she was operated, so she become a she, because the he side of her was underdeveloped? then in the 30s due to homon problems learn about all this, and have to decide, how you want to continue your gender, because your sex is inconclusiv? does she have answers for that? no. so don't gloryfy her. she is not the only one in the word, with brains, but others may have more access to other factors. and she does not respond to those. it is a tough topic and it is hard. in discussions like this and in real live. but it is not that easy, as some would like to have it. discuss and don't outcast people for bringing in discussions. but don't treat some like saints and the peak of intellekt.
@@nursen2106 A man who wants to be a woman and cuts off his genitals is not a woman.
@@nursen2106 Exactly. She's high on her intellectualism and privilege and impervious to parts of reality. Until it knocks at her door - there are still many who believe same-sex relationships are fiction...
@@rachelc6443 you are wrong. this topic was touched. and this group of intersex people - calling themseves transgender!!! are the ones, that originally started the discussionn. and if what you say is right, then it is even worth.. because they ignore the core issue and waste time on those, who may or may not have psycological issues to identify clearly. but your are wong, when you think, this discussion with Ms Stock would no effect/include exactly those, who cannot identify transgender by birth design. exactly because, they cannot identify with sex maybe exact by dna but not organically or the other way around. she is ignoring exactly that. it cannot be, that a society discusses gender issues and expecting in daily live there is the clarity of the fact, if a person right infront of you identifies trans or not is by design or by choice!
She's amazing. Very intelligent, polite, charming. We really need many more people like this lady
Every woman in the country should support Kathleen.
@Marina E it does amaze me how women will vote against their interests by voting Labour or Green or Lib Dem. I will spoil my ballot rather than vote for them. I can’t bring myself to vote Tory.
@Marina E Absolutely, I do.
Every woman in the world should support her.
@@p.m.of4299 And man.
@Marina E i support Kathleen. 👍👍
Great lecture. Well done to Oxford Union for standing up to mob pressure & reasserting the principle of free speech at Oxford. As everyone has now seen the position of Kathleen Stock really is perfectly reasonable & the hysterical & often threatening reaction to it casts the TQ+ activists in a very poor light.
Brilliant as ever. I'm not surprised that there are activists with opposing views who seek to silence Kathleen Stock. She is calm, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, sensible and erudite.
And beautiful.
Exacltt what they are terrified of. She has the potential to appeal to the moderates. The extremes on the other side can be dismissed as extremists (in theroy) where as cathleen's position is far capable of bulldozing extreme.gender ideology. In a certain sense she is indeed far more dangerous (to a fragile arguement)
Here, here.
Not only that but she's an actual lesbian who has to listen to these troons appropriating her sexuality in the name of LGBTQ+ in order to attack her and other women and dismantle safeguarding.
Yes and she isn’t insulting. It is very difficult to demonise her, unlike some other commentators. She isn’t extremist or inflammatory at all.
Professor Stock, what a joy is to hear you speak beautifully, articulately non-violently, compassionately and rationally on this topic. So many activists do not comport themselves about this as you do. Pleasure hearing you. Can't wait to read your book.
Good to hear a voice of reason from someone so patient, articulate and courageous. I hope more people will join her in speaking up.
If anything else, she is a good example of a good human being.
God she's good at de-escalation
That is what adults do when children are squabbling and can’t come to an agreement.
At 58:28 the questioner states: "out of over 100 cases of sexual assault within prisons, only 5 were committed by transgender prisoners" and says that seems a small proportion. Only if transgender people make up 5 percent of the prison population. Are one out of twenty people in prison trans? Statistics without complete information can be misleading.
Quite so. So if, in fact, transgender people make up only half a percent of the population, that would, contrary to the impression either deliberately or inadvertently created by the "5% ..." statistic, clearly indicate that, far from assaults by trans people being notably low, are in fact ten times, relatively speaking, that of the rest of the population.
Of course, that statistic - if true - would itself have to be carefully explained at the danger of a sudden increase of pearl clutching outrage leading to further division and even violence.
The whole thing has the shadows of the incident where, about ten or fifteen years ago, I read of the pædiatrician who was attacked by a mob.... You and I might well roll our eyes exaggeratedly at the Laurel and Hardy preposterousness of such a scenario - but the scope of the ability by humans for ignorance, stupidity and acting before thinking should never be underestimated - not to mention that I very much doubt the hapless children's medicine specialist found that much comedic about his experiences....
what a strong brave woman, shame on the people trying to silence her
Well done to you for following Stock down the manufactured panic rabbit hole. We can add you to the list of transphobes.
@@andrewcalladine2507 this comment is hilarious said nothing about trans people in my comment just that i admire this woman’s strength and ability to speak so well despite people trying to silence her, she has a right to speak whether you agree or not. As they stated that’s what the union is about, think there have been way more controversial people speak in the past. But yeah sorry who knows i’m just transphobic right
@@andrewcalladine2507Being labeled a transphobe has lost all meaning. If anything it’s now a label of common sense.
@@andrewcalladine2507 Though, of course, queer theorists and their sympathisers declare that age of consent laws are also down to a manufactured moral panic so we can just call that assertion tactical rather than factual.
@@andrewcalladine2507and well done to you for not bothering with such inconveniences as facts and evidence!
I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that, regardless of the possibility of sexual violence, women just don't want men around when they're getting undressed.
Exactly, women and girls want safety, privacy and dignity away from men.
Kathleen Stock is someone to be admired.
What an amazing brave intelligent human being is Kathleen Stock....i cannot find the words to express my admiration and respect...
Thank you to all institutions that allow free speech. We need to hear and discuss all sides of an argument in a civilised way.
I admire Kathleen Stock's courage and integrity.
What a legend. I haven’t seen her put a foot wrong in the biggest minefield of current conversation. To balance reality, opinion, ideology, policy and pragmatism aswell as historical developments… using language so skilfully, to concede readily but also stand firm come what may, she is an inspiration.
So pleased KS got the warm welcome she deserves. She wiped the floor with the absolute nonsense. I hope more of these conversations will take place & be widely disseminated to the public.
Kathleen Stock is a legend. Completely level-headed and pragmatic.
Patron of the LGB alliance which has no qualms working with the most evil group on earth (the Heritage foundation). Rethink your heroes perhaps
Amen
The 'cis' term is derogatory. Real women are just women. No further definition is required or necessary.
No idea why the host thinks single-sex spaces are only about reducing assault risk. It's also due to privacy. Women, and I imagine men too, like privacy in certain situations. Wild that this guy thinks women should lose theirs because some men (very few) are demanding this.
Spot on 👏
I agree with you, but everything from the boys scouts to the working men's clubs have been taken away from the male. Now it's happening to the female, and she doesn't like it does she? I'm on your side but I wonder if women in general understand that sometimes males like their own space too? It's different with what's happening to women today because they're at potential risk at the hands of potential predators, but my point remains. There should be male and female places for those who might want them, and that should work both ways!
@@thehound9638 yeah i agree, lots of the women in this debate agree that male-only spaces are useful and not always Bad And Patriarchal (the examples brought up for the ones that can be bad are things like when a workplace has some informal structure of men who all promote each other for example, because it increases nepotism). Helen Joyce of Sex Matters reposted a really sweet Guardian article about a men's support group, I dont remember the title of it though. (Sex Matters also talk about how single sex spaces matter for men too, their report on single sex spaces includes men feeling awkward in unisex toilets, as well as religious men having reasons for sex segregated spaces).
Also MrMenno on youtube talks a lot about how this affects gay male saunas, discussion groups, dating apps etc.
@@LightSpell28 I nearly wet myself laughing at the YMCA parody, thanks for that!
@@thehound9638 isnt he great? X) his talking livestreams are fun too
What a fantastic intelligent and eloquent woman. I'm grateful to you, Kathleen, for speaking out for us.
Apart from the bullshit she spouted. Talking about the types convictions that transwomen are put in prison for doesn't prove anything about transwomen in general, because the vast majority of them are not in prison at all. It's also not clear if they were transwomen when they committed the crimes, and who they committed them against.
A fairer statistic would be the proportion of cisgendered men who have been prosecuted for sexual attacks, versus trans women for the same thing. I can guarantee the rate will be far higher for cisgendered men.
@@natts
You have conflated too many variables.
What page of her book has upset you?
@Paul Hitchens eh?
@@nattsyou are not even able to state your disagreement in a respectful way. that’s sad.
@@f.h.7671 I can't respect liars who misrepresent the truth. Sorry!
Very pleasantly surprised to see a university host Kathleen Stock. It is a great step toward furthering discourse and free speech.
The Oxford Union is actually independent from the University - still, great they host these debates, very much needed.
Can you hear the hysteric mob of - I can't believe we have to call them that - Oxford University students outside the Union hall? I studied at Oxford and I am ashamed that the culture of free enquiry appears to have been utterly eradicated, catalysed by the self-serving and smug transgressions of diversity and inclusion officers.
Protestors who engage in heckler’s veto and other intimidation tactics are bad people.
May I ask, are the public allowed certain freedoms to walk around the grounds of Oxford University or would they have to be invited in by a current Student or Fellow ? I am having a hard time comprehending that what sounds to be a sizeable mob would be so prevalent at Oxford.
To be fair they probably all swarmed there to protest. I don’t suppose that they are all Oxford University students
@@louisewright1031 Couple of things to clarify: Oxford University doesn’t have a centralized campus; instead, it consists of individual colleges scattered across the city. The Oxford Union itself backs onto a public street. None of this is relevant however as the mob in question isn't made up of members of the general public but is composed of students..
'If you get so lost in the fiction that you cannot talk about the reality anymore, then we've got a problem'. Coudldn't have said it any better
So true. Just like the interviewer finally getting lost and tangled up in his own arguments at the end.
Discussion, debate, and differing opinions being silenced by irrational devices is inhumane. Kathleen has a remarkable iron resolve in the face of coercion. The world needs more Kathleens and thank you "Oxford Union" for sharing this moment.
Brilliant Professor! How amazing her patience for being repeatedly asked the same question. It's a shame that such sane voices are forced out of academia for addressing genuine concerns about children & adolescents.
did you see the part where she downplayed suicide? completely respectable.
@@ScottytheBlueBunny There is nothing hateful about defending the sex based rights of women and girls. Nothing hateful at all. These sex based rights are essential to preserve the dignity privacy and safety of women and girls. They do not exist to solve male problems.
33:18 speaks volumes! Thanks Kathleen for being a voice of reason.
As someone from 3rd world country struggling with recession and inflation, I am appalled by how this woman was stipulated to spend such a long time explaining very simple matter.
@Breakthechochamber "Relevant experts" AKA the opinions i agree with. He is right, the identitarian left is slowing the group, we should be focusing on defunding war machines, the environement but here we are debating what is a woman and a man with a bunch of ivory-towered privileged bourgeois.
Precisely, you nailed it. Therein lies the insanity of this issue.
@@Verbomotoriste agree.
She wouldn't have to if men didn't exist who insist they are women when clearly they are not creating safeguarding issues & impacting our rights. It's a male driven issue not a female driven issue. These men were given an inch & have taken a mile. Sadly some women also support this nonsense leading women like Stock to defend the obvious that yes should be simple & have long been accepted
@Breakthechochamber No, that's not what the appeal to martyrdom fallacy means and it's not begging the question. Look them up.
She is so reasonable, intelligent and humble. Thank you for speaking up for WOMEN!!!!
She has legendary patience and lives in a world where language is tethered to physical reality and to norms of shared space. The questioner, on the other hand, is deploying a vocabulary with no listening, no acknowledgement. Free-floating vocabulary free of all measurement is the new language of rights.
The imitation of mob rule and violence in the background speaks volumes and helps Stock make her point without much disagreement. We need more public intellectuals like Stock.
Stock on the protest: "I don't mind it. I wasn't traumatized by it. People in my generation would do things like that..." She is amazing. Finally, someone who ISN'T traumatized by people having alternative views!
do things like that? she owes her platform to the ppl who "did things like that". she would be out there in the 50s when someone was arguing that women shouldn't vote bcz of inferiority of biology and temperament. go away and stay away.
@@ScottytheBlueBunny Just stay out of the ladies toilets and changing areas son.
@@moraymac2922 Hilarious
@@ScottytheBlueBunnyShe 'owes the platform' to East Sussex University who preferred virtue signalling over presenting and respecting differing views
@Sparagmos she's the biggest yawn who will only bring harm to CIS women by ignoring the shared interests with Transwomen. She has 0 evidence for her biased philosophy. She's trying to capitalise off selling some kind of genetic predisposition for immunity to the harm she promotes. Men do not dress up like women to adress them. they do it well enough as is.
Very impressed with Kathleen Stock as a calm, intelligent speaker who tied Matthew in more knots than Harry Houdini would've managed but in a gentle way!
Every Question was answered clearly and I look forward to reading Kathleen's book.
You won't be disappointed. Her book kindly obliterates their arguments. That's why they hate her.
I've got the book Material Girls and have read the first chapter. It's very clear and readable. No academic jargon or mumbo jumbo.
thank you Kathleen. This is so important, you're so brave. It is such a relief to hear you.
she's a great speaker, I admire her courage, her intelligence, and the strength of her words. it's a weird time to be alive... but history will remember those who stood up for the truth when reality was under attack.
i got a good chuckle when she said "...so, im afraid im going to have to push back on that" after systematically deconstructing the interviewers loaded statement. what a class act.
"I have absolutely no counter argument but I feel uncomfortable with the truth"
That’s really a tragedy for a university to lose a person of such stature and ability, a prof with a true gift for communicating with young people.
I very much hope Ms. Stock can resume teaching in peace one day.
Uni- Verse- City. A city with a single story.
I agree. You can really see she's a principled person with character. And she was forced out.
They don't deserve her.
@@blisssing8449 Very clever. The word comes from the Latin “universus” meaning whole/everything. University.
I'm pissed off that she was driven out by mania. I'm not mad that we all get to hear her speak now, though. She's actually brilliant. She is what articulate means.
I felt the awkwardness in the room when the disabled man came and spoke, but Kathleen handled the situation with class and empathy
I sensed the relief that everyone felt when he walked away finally.
relief embodied as clapping.
I was falling asleep just listening to the audio and I thought someone was trolling her at first
How did she understand what he said? I understood perhaps ten words.
You gotta give it to the man, that was brave of him.
Kathleen Stock is a honest, decent, compassionate, articulate and intelligent woman.
Actually, she is a spreader of mistrust.
@@ChrisInTheNorth how? She’s pragmatic. Did you watch this video?
And, importantly has a sense of humour.
@@benhall2235 She's not pragmatic, I'm all for people having the freedom to say what they want but she doesn't have any solutions to anything. Her entire intellectual existence is based on a bunch of grievances she has with the existence of transgender people, but no whiff of any sort of real world solutions. It's the complete opposite of pragmatism haha.
@@benhall2235 I watch it in its entirety. It was excellent and she was clear and coherent. What didn't you like?
What a loss for Sussex University. I’d have been privileged to have been taught by Professor Stock.
I agree entirely. I would have embraced her teachings. A wonderful compassionate human being.
After watching this video and listening to her articulating so well, I now think the University of Sussex which failed her, and other academics who did not support her enough, should be ashamed.
Unfortunately, Brighton isn't very tolerant.
Yes, after watching the video. So, maybe you are rather part of the problem?
@@sorrystilltrying5062 I simply did not know about her until recently, unfortunately.
@@keren9322 I suggest you keep looking. You'll see how these people are backed and funded by the worst, and I mean THE WORST people on earth. Tthe Heritage foundation and others
I agree… Nearly thirty years ago I took a history class in college that was dual listed as a women’s studies class, and the profesor graduated, and previously taught at, University of California Berkeley around 1970-80; probably the most liberal college in the U.S. at that time… However, my fears she would try to push an agenda were unfounded… While she was a lesbian, and a feminist, she was pragmatic and did want critical analysis of the women we studied, some of which were Muslim from Middle East countries… Point is, Kathleen reminds me of that professor; yes she holds some liberal views, but is pragmatic and objective and not trying to force some narrative or ideology on people!
Just incredible, Kathleen. You are incredible. I will be forever grateful for your efforts to encourage healthy discourse. This must take such a toll on you and be very tiring. I'm so sorry for all the backlash. Please know we so grateful. I will read your book ❤
Thank you Kathleen Stock! for perservering and taking the effort to help people think more clearly.
It was a bit exhausting to listen to the moderator use rapid-fire, complex sentences and unsupported assumptions to overwhelm his guest with a flurry of words that, on reflection, did nothing to advance his points. To her enormous credit, Professor Stock remained calm and focused, cutting through his posh puffery with clear logic and factual data. Oxford seems to attract and indulge students with enormous egos and little self-reflection or humility. At times, the results can be insufferable.
Very well said 👏 my thoughts exactly... and in parts, it felt very pompous, designed to try and bamboozle. Fortunately, it didn't phase Kathleen Stock.
Ssss, ss, s, s, s, s, so w, w, w, w, w, wha, what is your p point?
couldn’t agree more
Christ, what a well-put post! Agree completely!
Kathleen is so great - clear, warm, compassionate, brilliant - intellectually far far above her abusers.
The interviewer was hopeless - convolutedly incomprehensible - but Kathleen 'saved' him with courtesy and grace.
"Where's the evidence?" "Here" "Yes, but address the idea I just made up" "I thought you asked this." "Yes, I did" "Then here's evidence to address that" "Oh, that wasn't what I was asking".
@@MarthaAnthony 😵💫😆oh gosh the social construct...🤔😆
Even 20 years ago, this debate would be something filed under the Twilight Zone. Absolutely ridiculous that she has to defend common sense.
It took a lot of nerve to do what he did. He did a great job, it’s just that the facts were not on his side.
I think we need to be kinder about people like this, who choose to be civil and have a discussion- even if we disagree with them. Otherwise, it gives them an excuse not to have a discussion at all. And these civilized debates with both sides in attendance are so important.
It was a discussion about some fairly sophisticated and philosophical topics. She's a philosophy professor. He's an undergrad. He did a damn good job. The best job I've seen fleshing out Stock's philosophical views, better than all the more "friendly" interviewers. This discussion is incredibly informative on Stock's views, thanks to him.
It's irritating how the burden is placed on women to disprove the unprovable. They are asking to change what already belonged to us. The onus is on them to prove to US why we should allow them into our things.
It is provable they are men.
Well said!
@@cassandras7399 I meant they want us to disprove why a made up category should not be allowed to destroy what is ours. We're being forced to comply with their premise, even though that's never been proven or shown to us how/why we should agree. Rather, we've been given no choice, and somehow that's not obviously blatant injustice and authoritarian and a violation of human rights?
@@amaryllisequistra TY!
@@ncorp2668 agreed
I'm concerned for her physical safety. Male transgender activists assaulting women is unfortunately not unheard of.
Violence on the far left is not limited to men.
Look at any of the hundreds of videos of far left groups, trans activists included and you'll see that when violence does occur women are often involved and even the instigators.
Check the mugshots of people arrested for violence at demonstrations and other activities and you'll see a lot of female faces.
From antifa to BLM to trans activists the far left have said for years now that violence against those they deem "fascists" is not only acceptable but necessary.
Having said that I'm worried for her safety as well.
Yes, Lierre Keith and others were attacked.
THERE YOU GO
Reasonable, moderate, excellent Professor Stock
Had to stop a couple of times to take a breath so that my own inner thoughts didn't cloud what I was hearing and wanting to understand. Gosh Professor Kathleen Stock, you are so good at keeping calm! So many moments of frustration there, watching on.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! And thanks Oxford for providing the platform.
More of this please.
Because women and girls matter xx
Finally a women who has the courage to talk about issues related to women.
I'm simply shocked that this is the level of logic ability of an outstanding Oxford student. As a latin woman, couldn't help to think strongly about the colonialist privileges of ordinary men in the global North. Well, nothing new about men trying so hard to defend other men's rights, to the detriment of women. You may have your money, power and colonizing institutions -- we won't be erased, neither do natural reality. Women, Life, Freedom. Thank you Kathleen for your patience and teaching, greetings from Brazil.
Hear ya, sister. I'm shocked too at this embarrassing level. Oxford University. My ass. Pardon my language. I come from a humbler institution.
Superb! The first public discussion of the subject I've seen that didn't degenerate into insanity and disingenuous accusations of transphobia and fascism! Pretty heroic stuff from Dr Stock. The more of her I see and read, the more I admire her. Can't wait to enjoy her book on the philosophy of music
Can we agree that the disgraceful misogyny and religious nonsense from trans activists is wearing VERY thin in public discourse?
They know that, that's why they don't want a public debate and want to cancel everyone who is trying to debate.
pride comes before a fall
Yes to everything except your use of the word "religious." "Ideological" would be more accurate.
Aye, but believing that someone can actually be born in the wrong body as opposed to just feeling like they are in the wrong body is akin to religious belief.
@@ibitron1 You're anchoring your assertion in the notion of belief. And while it is true that religion and ideology are both closely related to belief, "ideological" is more accurate because the anthropological assumptions undergirding gender ideology derive from philosophy (Firestone, Derrida, Foucault, Butler, etc), as opposed to religion.
Could have watched that for another hour. Great to see sunlight shine on this issue.
It's not just about male patterns of violence. It's actually also the basic comfort and dignity for females in their own spaces.
Yes. It should not be up to us to defend our space from men, we said no, it’s a clear boundary with no explanations necessary
Facts > feelings: What is the problem if we all share the same bathroom in the first place?
What protects "women's spaces" from men entering? The law? Not even sure. But surely, in practice, mainly male police officers (some call it the patriarchy) or male bystanders will come, step in and eject men from women's spaces.
Why are women not afraid of policemen? Why are women afraid of men in general? Why is this misandry allowed and accepted?
And what makes women sure they are not being assaulted by women? And what about the fact that men are more likely to be victims of violence in most western countries?
Violence and assault are more likely if nobody can watch it. But if we only had one bathroom, it would be empty less often and there would be way more (strong) men able to intervene than in a women's bathroom!
Facts > feelings.
SEX PHOBIA AND HATE OF BIOLOGICAL REALITY
@@Kritikanbringer This truly, truly takes the prize as one of let's say the top five dumbest comments I've ever read online. So much baffling dumbness in one place, just piling up, one incredibly stupid line after another. Bravo. That took effort.
Re bathrooms: it's not just about the risk of sexual violence (also flashing, voyeurism and being filmed), it's also about the comfort of women. If women know there are no bathroom facilities in public spaces where there are no male bodied people and if where they see a male bodied person they cannot legally challenge that person, then many women will self exclude from public spaces. They will be back on the urinary leash.
We campaign for safe female bathrooms in lower income countries, but now expect women in the western countries to share with any man who declares himself to be a woman, no matter his appearance. It's utterly batshit bonkers.
So true. Women will begin to self exclude, simply to accommodate entitled, selfish men.
So true. Women will self exclude simply to avoid self absorbed, entitled men.
Listen to the fanatics outside - what a bunch of idiots. Well done Kathleen 🎉, from a G to an L we need more people like you flashing a spotlight onto this issue. V brave considering the fanatics outside x
Agreed, she did fantastic 👏.
A little too much testosterone in the enraged "ladies" outside.
Standing ovation for Kathleen! How’s does glueing your hands to the floor further the debate? The trans community could do a lot more for itself if it actually tackled the arguments
Standing ovulation.
Debate is the arena for logic and reason, not feelings. Gluing your hands to a debate hall is the equivalent of bringing a football to a chess game. They’re just not playing the same game.
It is i possible to form a rational defense because they dont just want equality and to be left alone. They want you to affirm their delusion. They want to shove it in your face, force it upon children and force others to accept and verbalize a blatant lie.
They can't tackle the arguments though. That's the issue. It's the reason #NoDebate was a thing at the very start of their push for what they claim are rights but we all know are privileges. If your starting point - if what everything else you go on to say hinges on - is the idea that some men can be women, then you come into any debate unable to tackle opposing arguments, as the opposing arguments deal in facts.
They won't debate because they know that they would lose. The points they are protesting on are untrue and can be factually proven so. They behave like three to five year olds who simply scream and throw their toys about, hold their breath til they turn blue and stamp off slamming the door. Thinking that'll get them their own way
Thank goodness for this woman, speaking out.
She ain’t a women, she’s a womyn, (women without ‘men’).
What is she saying, though...?
From a US Citizen: Thank you Kathleen Stock for all that you’re doing to speak for those who are unable or unwilling to! I can see how challenging navigating these environments are in every YT Channel I watch you speak on & you’re doing it very well so thank you, thank you, thank you 🎉
Thank you Kathleen, for your calmness, reason and perseverance. It is difficult to argue with stupid.
I admire this LADYS strength. If the suffragettes were here today...who side would they be on. Fearless women is what we need.
They would be the mistresses of the suffragettes husband demanding more attention and money or she'll stamp her heels together an give the silent treatment to the married man.
Wow, that welcoming applause says so much. I bet she was relieved. 🎉
It is astonishing how bankrupt is the trans activist argument when subjected to a mild criticism
It falls down on every level in terms of logic or rationality - even on its own terms very often. That is why the efforts to prevent discussion were so vehement. Many of the 'prime-movers' know damned well that it is an anti-liberation, anti-tolerance movement riding on the back of a genuine liberation movement.
That is exactly its appeal to the petty tyrant that is somewhere there in all of us - something which apparently cannot be resisted by most people with any sort of authority.
A Christian theologian I discussed this with was of the opinion that any laws compelling recognition of chosen gender actually go further than Taliban compelled religion - because religion at least is a postulation about the world whereas trans ideology involves compelling adherence to a postulation, about subjective experience and the very essence of what a person is, to which very few people or philosophies would suscribe
Frightening is the word. And it's not how bankrupt the argument is, it's how spineless everyone else is.
@@aaronsmyth7943 well said
It's bc they are morally corrupt & stupid. You don't win an argument by shoving there agenda down our throats. Both sides have a point but I will change my opinion the minute they become nasty & atrack me. That shows they are brainwashed & just regurgitate the association's stand point which is at times ridiculous.
Germaine Greer was way off on some things but accurate on this issue:
GG: "Having it off doesn't make you a woman."
Interviewer: "You're offending people."
GG: "I don't care! I get offended every day!"
Damn she's good. Clear as anything, non-combatative, and fair. Wow.
Amazing lady. A real treasure. So glad she was able to speak here in spite of the intimidation tactics of the trans lobby. More power to Kathleen Stock!
‘Why should females take this burden on?’ Exactly! So unfair to women and girls. Kathleen Stock talks absolute common sense.
Im not taking anything on. I am a women, i revignize trans women, but have yet to meet one that could regrain from mansplaining things.
Yep. That part summed the entire thing up. When they talk about the harm to trans women in men’s bathrooms, it reminds me of the ‘what was she wearing’ argument. Women are expected to take on the role of motherly and empathetic to everyone, while men are allowed to essentially be seen as roving beasts, and instead of addressing that, we have to let the ones that dress like us, in our bathrooms. And we are expected to take the blame if any harm comes to them by protecting ourselves.
The young man interviewing her is already showing his bias by calling men and women 'cis' men and 'cis' women, as a man I object to that term, it was made up recently by trans activists, who constantly whine if we get their pronouns wrong!
To be fair, it’s his job to criticise and pick holes in her argument.
The term "Cis" has its origins in Latin and simply means "on this side of...."... It's not something Trans Activists "made up".. Actually get a clue, bro...
@@scottmcmahon86 irrc it was borrowed from organic chemistry where cis and trans are mirror image molecules - cis and trans versions of the same isomer so to speak. IMHO Brother Bill might reasonably suggest that his maleness is not the opposite or a mirror image of trans-maleness. Peace out brother Sammy!
@@scottmcmahon86 The term is indeed Latin but it's new to prefix everyone with this term. It certainly seems very unpopular and creates yet more resistance against the belief in a gendered soul.
@@scottmcmahon86 The point is that the prefix ‘cis’ isn’t needed. We already have the prefix ‘trans’ for all transgender people; for example, a ‘transwoman’ is a male who transitioned into a woman.
What one might call the default is just calling people ‘man’ or ‘woman’ without any prefix - here we can assume that they are a male man or female woman.
By adding the prefix ‘cis’ you are unnecessarily complicating language.
I don't recognise the term Cis, there is no cis man or woman, it's simply man or woman end of.
Welcome to the jungle of reality lol
I agree 🙏
Or natural born women and men.
99.5% doesn't need a category.
apparently it's now natal men and cis women because, you know, respect men
Wow, I have a new hero in Prof Stock. Cogent and unintimidated; we need more voices like hers.
You know times are bad when we need to agree with a radical feminist 😐
So nice of those people outside cheering for Kathleen Stock.