We went to MIT to see the first test of a new electric thruster system | Hard Reset
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2023
- These tiny electrospray thrusters cut spacecraft payload so that we can explore the asteroid belt, outer planets, and beyond.
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As humanity embarks on ambitious endeavors to explore the far reaches of our solar system and beyond, traditional propulsion techniques may be too inefficient for long-duration space missions. That's one of the reasons why researchers at the Space Propulsion Laboratory at MIT have been developing an alternative propulsion system: electrospray electric thrusters.
These relatively small and energy-efficient thrusters have the potential to revolutionize deep space exploration, offering significant advantages over conventional propulsion systems. By utilizing electric propulsion, electrospray thrusters deliver a higher specific impulse, enabling spacecraft to travel farther with less propellant, or enabling space agencies to launch smaller spacecraft into space. This increased efficiency is crucial for tackling the challenges of deep space exploration, as it reduces the overall mass and cost of space missions while increasing their range and duration.
Electric propulsion could also prove to be a cheap and easy way to keep satellites in orbit above Earth indefinitely, potentially offering a way to clean up space debris.
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What would you like to see with democratized access to space?
Yeah, let's make it cheaper to increase the amount of space junk out there so the future is more like Quark than Star Trek!
Democracy done right on Earth first.
If you want to democracy in space than you have to cancel capitalism first, because it already ruins our political system
cable driven Cthulhu tentacle monsters in LEO that collect or deorbit debris, they have solar sails instead of fins, and they can grind up scrap and launch it to higher orbits with their radial mass launcher. hell, make their eyes focus for thermoelectrics. every bit of material you can keep up there is launched mass saved. that's why I'm against deorbiting the ISS
We can boost scientific progress by processing data from Boinc distributed computing software
Thanks so much for visiting the lab and putting together this video, we loved having you guys! 🚀
You must be joking, so the first minute and 40 seconds is you begging us for likes and subscriptions and then after the intro to the video, you then force us to watch a mandatory commercial? I have a feeling that there's going to be about 5 more commercials by the end of this.
yup, I was right, there's a commercial not 3 minutes after the first beggar commercial.
This looks like the coffee pot video that thunderfoot made
You're very knowledgeable and charming, Mia! Thanks for being involved!
It was great meeting you all, thanks so much for showing us around! Can't wait to see what comes next!
Inventions like these keep me optimistic about our future. I'm no one & I give thanks for great people like these scientists.
8:43 is not comparable. Falcon 9 use fuel for entering earth orbit from the ground, but electric propelling is only useful once it has escaped from earth
Finally someone spoke some sense
Isn't that what the video was about, using them once in space, out of orbit?
Yes. That is actually stated with words and everything during the video.
I love seeing the enthusiasm that these MIT students and the Instructor have! It makes me smile all day!!!
I hope we have just as many people focused on fully exploring our own planet such as the ocean depths. Would be cool to live in a new exploration age where both space and the ocean are fully being mapped and explored.
There's a lot of really exciting stuff happening with undersea exploration! We actually did a Hard Reset on people exploring that, too: th-cam.com/video/OJMFfRXWrHA/w-d-xo.html
I dont care about no transparent nightmare gators
ocean is more scary to me than space, what if there was a levitians down there
@@kyledelossantos8303warning: entering ecological dead zone. Are you sure it's worth it?
- We're going to replace Saturn V!
- What thrust does this make?
- Like a mosquito
This may have been what I saw pass over my car on Nov. 21, 2008 just East of Kingman AZ. It had 6 massive rectangle shaped plasma or ion engines. Each engine was the size and shape of a drive-in movie screen or freeway billboard. About 100 to 150 feet wide and 50 to 75 feet high. 3 across and 2 rows. So, 300 to 450 feet wide and 100 to 150 feet tall.
I could see details on the bottom of the craft it was so near the ground. 150 to 200 feet above the ground. It had sparks dripping off the front and electrical arcing crawling across the bottom. The bottom of the craft had a design on it I will not mention here.
I will never forget this sighting.
It looked like the engine used lots of really small aero-spikes. That's neat. I didn't catch what fuel was planned, I assume it can use any of the regular suspects for ion engines. I guess the craft will have enough mass that the spring loaded separation won't cause it to lurch off course. Those long springs seemed iffy to me.
Maybe the simplest solution would be to pivot the thruster 180 degrees and then fire in the opposite direction for a few seconds to separate from the probe while also pushing the probe away gently without any decision or need for elastic components like springs
@@mbharatm That just adds more complexity and failure points. A simple spring loaded system that they're using is sufficient
I've always seen scientists as real heroes. These people are absolutely brilliant. 👏
Instead of stages why not simply unfold each stage like a flower/oragami and then run them at the same time. That way you do not have the added cost of discharging each stage into space, which could of course cause more space debries which could hinder other missions.
did you not watch it? each stage has a limited lifetime, if you ran them all at the same time.....they all get disabled around the same time too. the point is to prolong usage by using multiple sequential stages
You cut weight and increase the efficiency of the system this way. It's why multi-stage rockets exist. The debris shouldn't be a problem because they are supposed to be used in deep space, outside the orbit of the planet. I had the same concern. If they wanted an engine with more power though that isn't such a bad idea. Like the first 4-5 stages could be discarded but when they plan on having the craft fight gravity the last 5 could unfold and now it has enough power to maneuver in a gravitational environment.
The unfolding/origami thing seems to add unnecessary complexity though. Basically the engineers have to make a sacrifice to Cthulhu in hope it unfolds correctly. It made sense with JWST because it was a large craft that needed to be larger, but it doesn't make sense to me that you would need it for making a small craft a little bigger. Just make the small craft less small, and now you don't have to worry about disappointing Cthulhu.
If you repel the probe from the spent thruster pack....the thruster pack is part of the propellant. With a limited lifespan, blow the spent ones off the probe with ionic thrust, or magnetic fields, or explosive/chemical thrusters. Give the probe a boost!
Great video, one of the best channels on TH-cam.
Thank You 🙏🏻 So Much Freethink❤ For Putting This Video I really Loved this ❤❤
Love your videos, especially hard reset :)
Animation scenes are really great. Well done
Lol am I the only one that saw the springs 😂 this is like the coffee pot video 😂😂😂😂
This guy really loves his work! ❤ beautiful
It's really infectious!
2:49 Now I want to see a full list of thrusters, or forms of propulsion
ill be honest, that staging demo the dude at MIT was so happy about didn't seem so impressive. I could literally build something that detaches with springs and servos...
Very interesting, but one successful day I created an electromagnetic propulsion system that does not eject fuel and does not violate the laws of physics. It took me several months of mediation [head word] to find this method of propulsion. After conducting conclusive tests I time stamped it in my name. Currently it is in my archives. Maybe one day it will be used for space propulsion.
Maybe I'm missing something, but these look like ion propulsion thrusters. Electric thrusters normally mean they don't need propellent (and absolutely don't exist yet).
Ion thrusters are considered electric thrusters. Photon drives use only energy, and reactionless drives are the ones that don't exist (and probably can't)
@@lordcirth That doesn't address the concern above.
@@kwisatzsawyer How so? It's an ion thruster; ion thrusters both use propellant and are a type of electric thruster. What did I miss?
That "750...million volts" bit totally made me snort!!
On my channel there are a series of air breathing ion thrusters that are verified and patented for lifting their power supplies against Earth's gravity! There are also two flight footage videos demonstrating them lifting added propellant tanks. It therefore most likely will be possible to create ion thrusters that can reach space directly from the surface of the Earth, they also demonstrate rapid acceleration and an accordingly large TWR.
wow... this is just... incredible...
This is the kinda ion charge i was thinking of if you were to create a rubber banding effect could have a stable propulsion.
Will the springs in the separation mechanism perform (as well as demonstrated) when exposed to cold of deep space, and having been compressed at those temps for many months or years?
Maybe the simplest solution would be to pivot the thruster 180 degrees and then fire in the opposite direction for a few seconds to separate from the probe while also pushing the probe away gently without any decision or need for elastic components like springs
nice to see open source hardware on board.. teensy rocks.
Won't someone fly into that space junk one day? I know space is exceptionally vast, but even if you had radar, the chances of changing coarse in time to avoid a small piece of junk at high speed seems very difficult.
will we be able to track where the abandoned stages go after they are ejected.
Is there a way to where we you can have it ejected slightly then replenished like once its life span is over it gets repositioned and the cycle starts over if its electric cant it be re charged
I am in Love please don't change this idea
great, more space debris, i like it
Konstantin Tsiokolvsky's "Ideal Rocket Equation "
Is the reason for this new tech.
You have to expel mass at a given velocity to move through space.
So far that's the only way to move through space.
it's not *quite* the only way.
There are gravity assists and solar sails.
Light sails. Utilizing drag. Orion drive is slightly different
Theory what if the propulsion was to fire like a gattling gun "bursts" but a "timed relay burst" would you increase distance over consumption of fuel or energy
What propellant is used? What is the ISP of the thruster? How will it get its electric energy in the asteroid belt? This is a well-produced PR piece for a new ion thruster engine. No details.
Actually the thruster use showed is the smaller version of FEEP(Field Emission) Thruster
Do you know that the Orion project, that of the nuclear bombs, exceeds the efficiency of that electric motor by several magnitudes and, above all, it has plenty of thrust to take Saturn into orbit without much problem?
You have done good work, no doubt. It’s novel (to an extent) too. So there is something called Astrodynamics, which allows for fuel efficient trajectory planning and manoeuvres. With firing the thruster at right points in the trajectory, you can take advantage of the gravity field to get to wherever you want. It would have been great to see an efficient yet high-thrust electrical thruster system. We lack that tech. Having disposable thrusters will cause debris proliferation. Something to think about when considering space sustainability. Maybe Prof. Linares at MIT can help.
Interesting guess there good for lightweight deep resonances missions with cameras etc than actual usable payload for now
Actually, it's very amazing! But does the spring based ejecting system work in the deep space due to the very low temperatures? If it works, then the precise jettisoning of the used up thruster can actually propell the vehicle much forward than the electric propulsion itself just in the video itself the upper carriage is moving pretty quickly !!! So u can capture that momentum into advantage aswell .
Mr Scott, or 'Scotty' to his shipmates, was never once called "Mister Scotty".
Nice work. I am not sure why the multi-stage system is needed there when electro-thrusters are not considered consumables?! And if this is the usual electrospray which jets fine droplets when high voltage is applied then such limitation to the need of liquid is not clarified well there, and frankly the technology has been there for many many years so I wonder if something is missing on the novelty of the work.
I think the reason of using a multistage is due to the wearing of the electro spray tip in prolonged usage ? Although the tips are not consumables, I think some sort of degradation still take place
Multi-Staging, isn't (1 x ms) the same as (ms x 1) total power available?
it saves weight.
so you don’t have to carry useless engines and propellant tanks.
every kg counts in space exploration.
What is the propellant they are using?
10:15 looks like a demonstration of ejecting a spent thruster module, not a demo of the module actually doing thrust. You can see the springs that spring it off.
Is there any thing on the horizon that we know about, which could improve the amount (ratio) of mass that we (safely) turn into energy?
Yo. MIT. When you jettison the thruster pack, after it is spent. Use that to add a speed bump.
Small shaped explosive charges? Electric ion bursts? Magnetically charge the spent thruster pack to repel the next pack?
How much thrust do they get when they eject the spent stage?
at a high acceleration, won't ejecting the ion thrusters with unpredictable spring force result in a change of course which can't be corrected by the limited force of the thruster?
Propulsion systems are usually separate than attitude control systems. Attitude control on small systems is usually done with reaction wheels and those can cancel out the changes.
No not really-
orbital velocities / direction is measured in kilometers per second,
the seperation here would be lucky to eject at 20m/s.
If you make the spring system more practicable you can just use it as a speed boost.
More mass on the same spacecraft would cause slower velocity changes
Do you link , this self repellent force produced when releasing might cause the payload to shift direction . Visually I can see the self repellent force > thruster force
Airbreathing engines sounds like a great solution on Earth as well, MIT.
Pretty sure the Tesla of Space is SpaceX
The miniaturization of space machines is the future.
I wonder how difficult would it be to build fuel depots for electric thrusters in comparison to fuel depots for chemical thrusters. When you fill up your car you don't get fuel from the refinery, you get the fuel from a gas station which gets the fuel from a distribution hub network.
I think we're making the mistake that we need to have a rocket that allows us to travel to a new solar system with all of it's fuel.
It's really interesting to think what refueling could look like when that doesn't mean transferring thousands or millions of kilograms of liquid, but simply a solid object of (perhaps) a few grams. Even if we still need large rockets to get from Earth to space (though there are other approaches being explored), this opens up a lot of possibilities.
@@freethink I actually want to pursue underground Mars communities like those shuttered mines that were converted into secure storage facilities.
I would send multiple a multi mega watt micro reactors & tunnel boring equipment. That way you could build structures that would last potentially thousands of years on the cheap.
The upfront cost is high but you could give each colonialist their own earth sized apartment that will likely be cheaper than a NYC house/Condo.
There you go, a tunnel ready economy where individuals, institutions, corporations, and governments would pay engineers to build them a room into the side of a navigation corridor tunnel.
Once Mars homes/condors arrive then the rich will stop their pissing contest with yachts, and yachts will go back to people who're nautical.
You could build rooms with interior volume greater than the NASA VAB because it's all underground instead of fragile aluminum tin cans on the surface of mars.
What I would do is look for salt domes on Mars to use them to store propellants underground like how the USA stores petroleum for it's strategic oil reserve & it's former helium reserves it sold off.
So you could build up a surplus of propellant for missions such as to Martian Moons.
You could supplement low propellant production with autonomous deliveries from Earth.
All of the propellant manufacturing equipment could be housed underground & out of the elements in climate controlled rooms.
You wouldn't have to worry about gravity because everyone would be walking tens of miles each week because there won't be cars on Mars. People would walk around more than people do for sports training or in the military.
Underground would also shield people from radiation.
@@jmd1743 What you write is kinda interesting but has not much to do with the topic at hand. Those Ion Thrusters are good for Space and not Planets, we still have to build all those drills in earth and get them out of orbit, to travel in Space isnt that expensive but to get into space is... maybe a moonbase which builds everything up there from mined up astroids, but all of this takes decades
Fairly simple really,
I understand a select few spacecraft have already been refueled with liquid propellent.
Currently we have the issue of all spacecraft assuming they only have 1 tank for their entire life-
when we've had the technology to refuel stuff for decades.
The main issue is cost and delta-v, you can usually only visit fuel depots in nearby orbits-
unless you have a rocket the size of the Space Shuttle, or say... Starship?
@n/a n/a My Friend, I read what you write was high thinking which is good but there are words written by you which shows your thinking is already decided like a made up mind. It does not split into categories of thinking such as possibilities of right or wrong, positive outcome or negative outcome.
When you wrote "thousands of years" then it was like you assumed this by taking reference of Earth where we are living from millions of years.
People do reasearch, experiments, thinking for to get the accuracy of anything possible in existence.
I agree you are right we are making mistakes by thinking we need to have a rocket to travel to space for .... But still we cannot just think of anything without connecting to accuracy and meaning for us like is it meaningful for us humans, is it accurate.
AdaptionSystems has its eye on a newer type system that they call "ION & Thruster Free High Output in orbit Electric Propulsion system"
If it were the "Tesla for space" it would have spontaneously combusted.
What I want to know is how do I get stock in this?
Neat but future adition negative whatever cold springs freeze and break have secondary eject backup
Once in orbit, propellant is obsolete.
The rocket equation changes from ISP to a non stop run time warranty.
Honestly I like this coz it's practical
And what of hydro as there's a so say vacume so air in that case could you not heat up the air on a glass to create condensation ...and I understand there is a lot more to it than just the idea
My concern when ejecting spent parts is they become a hazard for future spaceflight in the solar system.
Its so small it could mount on a phone and have it cushion the fall.
F9, irl. (editors gonna know)
They don't generate a lot of force. It won't even be able to overcome friction in earth's atmosphere. So no, not gonna save your phone :(
@@puffinjuice 😑why only my phone? 🙁
How did u get to like contact them
Doesn't seem more efficient than small nuclear reaction and the separation of elements to use them as fuel source that can easily be mined in space
Yes, please help us explore the asteroid belt by 2035!
Sick
Wow... springs
Wait so your just going to eject them to float around forever , that'll be almost impossible to detect and avoid ? Seems like space littering to me 😂
How about flying a craft in our skies? How large of an engine would you need to fly a craft above the desert?
Exciting 🎉
what about the waste?
what about it? its a tiny amount of material that'll just be floating in space
@@demonz9065 bad mentality
@@wovasteengovaspace is infinite so who cares?
@@Drinkwateritsgood4u doesn't mean it should be filled with space junk
@@wovasteengova😐 bro so you really think we humans can fill it with junk 😅 even if we gather all stuff in the earth and spread them in the space
You feel absolutely no difference
I’m not smart at all on this topic and hoping someone smarter can educate me. Once in space, would be the issue with using compressed air as means for propulsion? Like a giant bike pump mechanism shooting air from a nozzle in the back.
There's no such thing as "electric thrusters" as they all shoot out ions, not electrons, and therefore require "fuel" or mass to dump out the back. Edit: To be clear, electrons have a tiny bit of mass, but the point still stands.
They need a rare gas right?
I smell Gundam technology here. Gustav Flight System he is the fore father of the mecha battles in future
what course do those students do
we want more #hardreset
Have you watched the Hard Reset podcast yet? 👀 th-cam.com/video/gbeWz-KVW3Y/w-d-xo.html
love the name
The biggest benefit compared to chemical is the speeds they reach. Wasn't even mentioned in the video. 😂
How can I invest
Great video, but even mentioning nuclear fission as a possibility made me question everything presented here. It's fun to think freely, but let's discuss options more when there's even a way of making then feasible, but so far the number of "practical" ideas for how it would be possible on earth or in space is very limited, and not really practical in the common sense.
Also, I think low-orbit control is a great use, and would be incredible for the next few decades until the technology matures.
I hope they and other companies like them succeed. Using rockets is kind of like using a horse on modern freeways. We should have something better by now.
As much as i love this what bothers me is that they just eject the burnt out thrusters into space creating space junk. It's not much of an issue now but what about the future - kind of like the junk in the ocean a little bit of junk wasn't much of a problem but fast forward hundreds of years and now it's a massive problem. I think working on the thrusters as they've described is great but what about another team that tackles the problem of what to do with the burnt out sections rather than having space junk left floating around in space creating another pollution problem that could possibly cause issues for astronomers trying to study space.
Wireless power as a source of power. I'm not exactly sure how feasible it is to be ejecting propellant pods into space. Humans should not turn space into a trash dumped.
Or one reallllly long cable
Dude space is massive. Like seriously massive. Not only is it massive it's self cleaning to an extent. We can probably dump billions of boosters in the inner solar system with no concern.
Also they eject those things because of electrode wear. Or at least it should be because of electrode wear.
@@Imaboss8ball Its a problem if they orbit around earth though its basically already trash filled with space trash
@@fuzer4047 low earth orbit can't be filled with trash. It automatically cleans itself. The high orbits are even more massive. When it eventually does become a problem we would have the capability to clean the orbit.
The heck.
Leaving the atmosphere is the real issue…
So it can’t even do that
a mosqitto weighs 2.5 miligrams on average when grown
Maybe I didn't understood from the video, but how those thrusters are getting up on Earth's orbit? I mean... the thrusters themselves cannot accelerate to get up there. They are operational only outer space, they're not starting directly from Earth. Am I wrong...? So, if my presumption is correct, the chemical powered rockets doesn't become obsolete as the video claim...
did you stay Star Track?
What if you could use Interstellar hydrogen as thrust with nuclear generated energy once out of the atmosphere?
5/11/2023
Cool idea, but ejecting spent thrusters... so, we're going to create _more_ space junk. 🙄
It's not in our orbit it completely negligible
@Raven Shaw i’m sure that’s what the first pioneers of spaceflight thought about leaving junk in orbit around earth. If you can’t predict the future you can’t claim that littering space is negligible.
@JeremyRabbit bro earths orbit is tiny compared to space its like saying droping a grain of sand in the ocean is gonna harm someone
Lots of hype and space opera. Be interesting to hear figures quoted such as Specific Impulse.... 😊
The Tesla of space is literally Elon’s spaceX
No more garage in space. As future flier can hit the discarded space thrusters. Think people. Think.
But you still need chemical rockets to get into space.
It's just a spring
Instead of stacking thrusters just add more fuel.
Came for thruster info...
Leaving after Musk fandom
If theyre so compact and weak why not just un-stack them and fire all at one for much faster acceleration? Why even bother stacking them and using one by one when its that slow?
Cause you can only do that once bruh, try to navigate multiple asteroids with like 1 burn dude not how that works
Why stack them? Why not just give them more fuel instead? This sounds like a very not so cost-effective way to propel a spacecraft at all...
Good electrical thrust with the side effect of spewing space junk!
Electric propulsion wont make you go the speed of light. Electric Propulsion engines now have very low thrust but a lot of ISP.