It's plausible that all your videos on rhis over the years will prevent at least one bad accident - thank you. Seems a common theme with Petzl that they have a really good design for years, then they "improve" it (Petzl transporter: straps now break, Shunt: more likely to scorpion, Stop: doesn't like older ropes, croll: nasty plastic catch, supervanti harness: straps self undo, they are issuing buckle guards as a retrofit). Petzl.. stop "improving" products that were working so well!!!
Wow you seem to know a lot about many products! I don't know 1/4 of what you know here but I would tend to agree with you: we want the microcender back and the old Basic back too! Thanks for the comment.
This is the device I experimented a bit with when I got interested in top rope solo and I was like "Yeah that'll do !" but there were some unknown unknowns. As always Shortly after I stumbled upon some warnings from you and others and I ditched it right away. Thanks for spreading those infos.
Same! I'm on a Taz Lov nowadays. Before that on a roll n lock and before that on a minitrax (which I still use as a backup. I like a bigger trax since the smaller ones tend to get in between the plates of the Taz)
The CE certificates really depend on the type of equipment. All products sold in Europe (or the EEA really) need that CE mark, shoe laces undergo significantly different tests than radio equipment or climbing gear. You can't compare the two! Same for UIAA or EN
Fully agree. But I think you see what I mean here in my video. People tend to think a PPE rated equipment is kind of fool proof to save their life. An untrained eye will see the CE marking and think it is a « proper » PPE rated equipment. The Shunt is a third hand for a rappel setup. Some people use (they should not!!!) 4mm nylon cord for a third hand prusik, that is close to shoe lace size!!! I mix things up a bit sorry but I think you might see where I am going here.
Always reassuring to hear the the Shunt was « used in the past » for TRS. Hope it stays that way 😜. I believe using the shunt on double ropes would be safer than single for TRS use. Provided the two strands are the same rope model and size. But there is little data. The most popular video on the subject explains a single rope system. And at least 90% of the setups I have seen with the Shunt are single rope. Thanks for the comment!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing yes, a lot of older climbers here in the uk used to call TRS ‘shunting’! As long as it was a doubled up rope, I’d be fine with using it nowadays, as you say, never on a single strand or unmatched strands running through the device.
I believe I have the L shape Shunt from the time period you are looking for that has very little use on it. If you would like it for testing purposes, I would be happy to donate it.
Safe-Tec Duck-R Back Up Device: I have never touched one. I have researched the subject for Top Rope Solo (TRS) and decided against buying one. People who test it for TRS found there is too much friction going on and it seem like the device is annoying. Also it is 290g so not the most heavy but substantial. Also a bit expensive but would be ok if it did the job! Also I know no one using the Duck-R for TRS. Do you know more about it?
A Shunt and a prusik for a TRS setup? I don’t remember seeing that before. Could you share a picture in the Top Rope Solo Climbing Facebook group? I expect having a scorpion catch on a double rope to be at least very unlikely. I will have to test that.
If you did just double your rope through a piece at the top without a knot, only one strand would have to get lose to make the system fail. But I think it is a good question. With a knot it would mean both strands would have to come out. Also it might be harder for the shunt to turn upside down.
Something I've wondered about which maybe you could make a video on: If the shunt is used to TRS on two ropes rather than one, wouldn't that removed the possibility of a scorpion catch?
@@JoBianco there are many variables. It is hard to know the risk without an in-depth analysis. Petzl has stated that the Shunt should not be used for TRSing. Given that there are many better options out there, I would stick to that. For sure using 2 thick ropes (>10mm ropes) looks like it would fix the scorpion catch. But read the manual: the 2 ropes should be free equalizing at the top (not fixed independently. This goes against my gut feeling of having redundancy in the system. So then again, I would urge anyone to use a different tool until proper risk analysis and testing is achieved. Makes sense?
How do you figure that you will generate 4.5kN in a top rope solo fall on a dynamic rope if your device is traveling with you? That's impossible to generate. If your device is traveling with you, its literally just roughly a doubling of the static load.
I have put the LineScale on me on a TRS setup with a dynamic rope, climbed to close to the anchor and tried some falls with progressively higher fall factor until until I got above 4kN. I am 80kg and it was fairly easy to get above 4kN. Take a 120kg climber on a semi-static load and voila it can get much higher quick! My 2 cents...
So are you saying there was little slack in the rope and did you allow the rope to recoil or did you continue to hard sit on the device over and over without letting the rope recoil?@@YannCamusBlissClimbing
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It's plausible that all your videos on rhis over the years will prevent at least one bad accident - thank you.
Seems a common theme with Petzl that they have a really good design for years, then they "improve" it (Petzl transporter: straps now break, Shunt: more likely to scorpion, Stop: doesn't like older ropes, croll: nasty plastic catch, supervanti harness: straps self undo, they are issuing buckle guards as a retrofit). Petzl.. stop "improving" products that were working so well!!!
Wow you seem to know a lot about many products! I don't know 1/4 of what you know here but I would tend to agree with you: we want the microcender back and the old Basic back too! Thanks for the comment.
This is the device I experimented a bit with when I got interested in top rope solo and I was like "Yeah that'll do !" but there were some unknown unknowns. As always
Shortly after I stumbled upon some warnings from you and others and I ditched it right away. Thanks for spreading those infos.
Great comment. Warms my heart! Hope you found a great TRS setup and climb lots!!!
Same here. I sold it and told the guy to watch your videos. You must have saved more than a few lives already.
Same! I'm on a Taz Lov nowadays. Before that on a roll n lock and before that on a minitrax (which I still use as a backup. I like a bigger trax since the smaller ones tend to get in between the plates of the Taz)
The CE certificates really depend on the type of equipment. All products sold in Europe (or the EEA really) need that CE mark, shoe laces undergo significantly different tests than radio equipment or climbing gear. You can't compare the two! Same for UIAA or EN
Fully agree. But I think you see what I mean here in my video. People tend to think a PPE rated equipment is kind of fool proof to save their life. An untrained eye will see the CE marking and think it is a « proper » PPE rated equipment. The Shunt is a third hand for a rappel setup. Some people use (they should not!!!) 4mm nylon cord for a third hand prusik, that is close to shoe lace size!!! I mix things up a bit sorry but I think you might see where I am going here.
I always used a shunt on double ropes. I seem to remember that was the recommended use many years ago in the 90’s
Always reassuring to hear the the Shunt was « used in the past » for TRS. Hope it stays that way 😜. I believe using the shunt on double ropes would be safer than single for TRS use. Provided the two strands are the same rope model and size. But there is little data. The most popular video on the subject explains a single rope system. And at least 90% of the setups I have seen with the Shunt are single rope. Thanks for the comment!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing yes, a lot of older climbers here in the uk used to call TRS ‘shunting’! As long as it was a doubled up rope, I’d be fine with using it nowadays, as you say, never on a single strand or unmatched strands running through the device.
I believe I have the L shape Shunt from the time period you are looking for that has very little use on it. If you would like it for testing purposes, I would be happy to donate it.
Yahoo! OK yes! Contact me through my web site contact page here please: blissclimbing.com/en/contact/
Sho. Thanks!
Have you done any tests on the Saftey Tec Duck ?
Safe-Tec Duck-R Back Up Device: I have never touched one. I have researched the subject for Top Rope Solo (TRS) and decided against buying one. People who test it for TRS found there is too much friction going on and it seem like the device is annoying. Also it is 290g so not the most heavy but substantial. Also a bit expensive but would be ok if it did the job! Also I know no one using the Duck-R for TRS. Do you know more about it?
How about scorpion catch on a double rope? Did you test it? That's the only config I did use, with a prusik knot backup.
A Shunt and a prusik for a TRS setup? I don’t remember seeing that before. Could you share a picture in the Top Rope Solo Climbing Facebook group? I expect having a scorpion catch on a double rope to be at least very unlikely. I will have to test that.
If you did just double your rope through a piece at the top without a knot, only one strand would have to get lose to make the system fail. But I think it is a good question. With a knot it would mean both strands would have to come out. Also it might be harder for the shunt to turn upside down.
Something I've wondered about which maybe you could make a video on: If the shunt is used to TRS on two ropes rather than one, wouldn't that removed the possibility of a scorpion catch?
BTW I have a shut and use it for TRS, but I always use a backup on a separate rope. I've just wondered about adding two ropes through the shunt.
@@JoBianco there are many variables. It is hard to know the risk without an in-depth analysis. Petzl has stated that the Shunt should not be used for TRSing. Given that there are many better options out there, I would stick to that. For sure using 2 thick ropes (>10mm ropes) looks like it would fix the scorpion catch. But read the manual: the 2 ropes should be free equalizing at the top (not fixed independently. This goes against my gut feeling of having redundancy in the system. So then again, I would urge anyone to use a different tool until proper risk analysis and testing is achieved. Makes sense?
Makes sense... but would also make an interesting video! @@YannCamusBlissClimbing
hi, any chance you know what load does the shunt tolerate when it hits a stopper knot before its start deforming..? thanks for your channel 🙂
How do you figure that you will generate 4.5kN in a top rope solo fall on a dynamic rope if your device is traveling with you? That's impossible to generate. If your device is traveling with you, its literally just roughly a doubling of the static load.
I have put the LineScale on me on a TRS setup with a dynamic rope, climbed to close to the anchor and tried some falls with progressively higher fall factor until until I got above 4kN. I am 80kg and it was fairly easy to get above 4kN. Take a 120kg climber on a semi-static load and voila it can get much higher quick! My 2 cents...
So are you saying there was little slack in the rope and did you allow the rope to recoil or did you continue to hard sit on the device over and over without letting the rope recoil?@@YannCamusBlissClimbing
So why are you performing this test on "your" clearly yielded shunt? This is not a realistic scenario...
Shunts arent even cheap... Why do people keep using them lol
I agree with your feeling. The Shunt is quite expensive compared to other options. It is not a « money saver ».