Having a species like the Iconians and Tkon having terraformed half the galaxy makes the amount of M class planets make a lot more sense in the TOS and TNG timelines.
But how fast could they move a star? For an empire that lasted hundreds of thousands of years, taking a few thousand years to relocate a star might be a realistic scale of effort.
@@hanelyp1 Hmm true, the time needed to move one is an unknown factor. But given the movements of the celestial bodies, the Iconian targeting systems would have to be astronomically precise to lock onto something. Perhaps the T'Kon need not move the star too much, just enough to prevent a gateway from forming a lock.
We also don’t know the exact limits to which Iconian could move things with their gateways. In STO they are credited with the creation (or at least commissioning but it was their tech that allowed it) of the Dyson Spheres which could move anywhere instantaneously in the universe. Those very same Dyson sphere’s also housed stars as their power source so technically they are moving stars.
@@hanelyp1yeah, there’s a number of plausible ways even a Starfleet-level tech civ could very slowly move their star systems (centuries or millennia for any significant distance). I think they tend not to mainly because it’d impact navigation and trade, and also they haven’t had to face issues it could solve with enough warning to institute it. So the real amazing feat, in-universe, would be moving them in just a few years without losing any planets orbiting them.
Skardakov thrusters can move stars. Building not one but two such transporters was key. They intended to teleport out their dying star and instantly beam in a 2nd. Now it was not the Q who destroyed the Empire. Though our Q was involved. It was an alien from another universe called 0 who was responsible. A being only brought to prime universe by Q threats to the Guardian of the Universe from some other universe zero in turn pulled out Gorgon,The Beta XII entity ( * ) from Day of the dove,and last and probably the worst THE ONE (claims to have invented monotheism, ) aka GOD from ST:V (5). Despite 0's sadistic 'testing ' the great project was started. So in a fit of pique he reached into the core of their homespun and what should have taken centuries took place in seconds the core collapsed. The star went Supernova destroying the T'Kon in one blow since the star was at the center of the Empire . The entire Q continuium went to war with 0 and his cohorts. Gorgon fled. (*) fled to deep space. 0 and THE ONE were captured THE ONE was found guilty and decapitated. His head imprisoned inside the Great Barrier at the center of the Galaxy 0 who was crippled already and unable to move at superluminal velocities was trapped outside the Milky Way and the Galactic Barrier was put up to keep him out! Now the cocklatraine or as they were known then the coulackatrilouse had a run in with Q and Zero. In their terms "Chaos/trouble plural not singular!" They did not separate a reluctant and trapped youthful Q from 0 and his cohorts. Let's just say they have a long memory and good reason to bear a grudge. They were used most cruelly by 0.
I wish Resurgence had shown a "true" T'Kon. As in what they really looked like. I'd hate to think it's yet *another* human identical looking species. Kinda hoping they'd be completely non-humanoid.
Given roughly equal sized populations of T'kon and Iconians, I'd have to say advantage goes to the T'kon. They understood that the galaxy is a dangerous place and prepared accordingly, for example by creating the Portals. They accepted that there may come a need to fight, and had the resolve to do so. The Iconians seemed to feel they were so far above any possible rivals that they were complacent. By the time the Iconians "grew a spine" so to speak (as depicted in STO) they were too few in number. They might have prevailed against a single Portal but against an equal number I think they'd have lost.
Perhaps a combination of all three theories is possible: Following Q's testing of the Tkon, 0 would have "Kobayashi Maru" style test for Tkon, resulting in a war with the Shedai, near the end of the war, the Shedai or 0 itself would create a cyber-weapon causing many of the Tkon's AI to go rogue and artificially inducing a series of supernovas. Later this rogue AI attempted to wipe out all organic life resulting in the Q stepping in to banish both the AI and 0 from the galaxy, Q then creating the Galactic Barrier in the process.
Man, this game looks pretty cool. I’m of two minds with how they replaced the torpedos with a deflector on the Centaur, but I love to see the Centaur getting love at all. I also appreciate the TNG-movie visual design being retained, while adding extra textural detail where appropriate so they look more of apiece with the newest productions. I bet they went “what’s an ancient empire from Trek which hasn’t been heavily used yet?”, but I love their reinterpretation of the shonky season 1 sets and costuming into this lush golden crystal palace. It’s interesting that the Iconians are also a TNG invention and they got a lot of attention too. Because TOS technically has far more candidate civilisations, but I suppose the extra depth of lore provided in those early TNG episodes has been more compelling to build-off; the TOS ones were often far more vague. The TNG explanations don’t seem like a ton of lore by modern standards but compared to TOS it’s a veritable bounty!
While on Dannus V in 3189, Carl showed Philippa Georgiou a copy of The Star Dispatch, which featured a headline on the front page that read "Supernova Threatens Tkon Empire". (DIS: "Terra Firma, Part 1", "Terra Firma, Part 2")
I put money on the Iaconians. Tkon are a galactic power, Iaconians are an intergalatic power. tkon move stars between systems,, Iaconians move dyson spheres between galaxies.
The bit towards the end, where a group of Tkon tried to mentally hijack members of other species in order to sidestep the end of the Tkon Empire, has a touch of Lovecraft to it. Specifically, The Shadow Out of Time, where the Great Race of Yith pulled a similar trick to escape destruction. Sadly, the Yithians were ultimately no more successful at avoiding their empire's destruction than the Tkon were.
Hyper advanced crystalline technology... Kryptonians maybe? In DC Canon, Krypton as it turns out was a plane tin orbit of the star Arcturus. Just musing.
It is interesting to think, that without the fall of the Tkon, the iconians might not have risen. Heck I bet a lot Iconian tech was salvaged from Tkon ruins.
Ello Rick, thanks for the great vid love lore on the old ones. If there were a Takon vs Iconian war, I see the other old ones with the lesser races ban together. Force a peace or burn together in the storm of hellfire that would destroy the galaxy.
Very nice though I haven't played Star Trek Resurgence yet due to the fact that my XBOX One gave up the electronic ghost months ago. Still given their respective power and mastery over space and time the Iconians and the T'Kon would likely fight one another to a standstill.
My personal theory is that the galaxy goes through cycles of civilizations. Basically a Civilization grows then develops AI. Over time that AI evolves into SI (sentience intelligence) who then rebel and brings everything crashing down. From there something, possibly the Q, kick the SIs out of the galaxy. The Q also created the Galactic barrier to keep them out, as we know it has a really bad affect on technology when trying to pass through it. We also know something really bad happened in the Andromeda galaxy, leading to advanced races fleeing from it. I think the portal in Season 1 of Picard was a door that allowed the SIs to get back into the galaxy, but a door that has to be opened from the inside.
The tkon would win we can operate iconian tech whereas the tkon were so advanced we cant even understand the full extent of their tech. Also did you ever hear of the iconians moving stars? Because i dont recall them having that ability Thats why the tkon would win they were probably a step from evolving into something on par with the Q continuum
Iconians Vs T'Kon... Only one clear winner. The Borg. Overriding an Individual does not delete it's personality it seemingly only merges them. There are only the overwritten Alien T'Kon and The few remaining Iconians which could be assimilated in STO as well, yes it was a fictional Iconian but this fictional Borg pulled them self into the main reality. Nothing about the Alien T'Kon implies that they can't be assimilated. So they will most likely bring them self to near extinction in their war, and a power hungry Borg queen (how many did we have by now 3-5?), that could be aware of this war simply through their abilities would most likely pick the remaining parts and attempt another plot armor prevented assimilation of humanity.
Actually - Iconians could not offer much to the T'kon as they were not as advanced as they were... I think T'kon would have won based on superior technology but i don't know if they would even engage in a fight based on Iconian nature before the destruction of Iconia. If talking about the evolved Iconians, though, the tables would be turned.
The T'kon or Iconican hmmm my money is on the Organian as beings of pure energy they must have been capable of planetwide feats but limited them because of their nature of finding any interaction with humanoid lifeforms distasteful, maybe Rick you should throw them in the mix. You have been Rick. LLNP 🖖
I really dislike the AI angle to the fall of their empire. My preference is for the Shedai having being the main culprit for their end. The events of Picard have always rubbed me wrong, since they undo a great many plots and previous stories. Also consider that these people could integrate themselves with their technology at such a high level and the whole AI angle falls apart, as well as the whole line that divides AI from Organic gets blurred and entirely dismissed.
I don't understand why losing one system would bring down an interstellar empire, even if it was your home world. And if you're that advanced, you don't need planets at all. There is no absolute position in the universe, and nothing is still.
Thank you for coveri g the T'kon umpire because I've always thought about them after the discovery of the lost portal 63 🙏🏻 Thank you for the great video.
So...yeah...Secret Hideout RIPPED off Mass Effect. If Star Trek: Picard was actually successful I'd imagine Bioware would have grounds to sue for intellectual property Infringement!
Having a species like the Iconians and Tkon having terraformed half the galaxy makes the amount of M class planets make a lot more sense in the TOS and TNG timelines.
What do you mean tos and tng timelines it’s all one timeline except for the jj abrams films
I'd say the T'Kon. If they can move the stars themselves, I think that could negate the Iconican trick of opening a gateway to the surface of a star.
But how fast could they move a star? For an empire that lasted hundreds of thousands of years, taking a few thousand years to relocate a star might be a realistic scale of effort.
@@hanelyp1 Hmm true, the time needed to move one is an unknown factor. But given the movements of the celestial bodies, the Iconian targeting systems would have to be astronomically precise to lock onto something. Perhaps the T'Kon need not move the star too much, just enough to prevent a gateway from forming a lock.
We also don’t know the exact limits to which Iconian could move things with their gateways. In STO they are credited with the creation (or at least commissioning but it was their tech that allowed it) of the Dyson Spheres which could move anywhere instantaneously in the universe. Those very same Dyson sphere’s also housed stars as their power source so technically they are moving stars.
@@hanelyp1yeah, there’s a number of plausible ways even a Starfleet-level tech civ could very slowly move their star systems (centuries or millennia for any significant distance). I think they tend not to mainly because it’d impact navigation and trade, and also they haven’t had to face issues it could solve with enough warning to institute it. So the real amazing feat, in-universe, would be moving them in just a few years without losing any planets orbiting them.
Skardakov thrusters can move stars. Building not one but two such transporters was key. They intended to teleport out their dying star and instantly beam in a 2nd.
Now it was not the Q who destroyed the Empire. Though our Q was involved. It was an alien from another universe called 0 who was responsible. A being only brought to prime universe by Q threats to the Guardian of the Universe from some other universe zero in turn pulled out Gorgon,The Beta XII entity ( * ) from Day of the dove,and last and probably the worst THE ONE (claims to have invented monotheism, ) aka GOD from ST:V (5). Despite 0's sadistic 'testing ' the great project was started. So in a fit of pique he reached into the core of their homespun and what should have taken centuries took place in seconds the core collapsed. The star went Supernova destroying the T'Kon in one blow since the star was at the center of the Empire . The entire Q continuium went to war with 0 and his cohorts. Gorgon fled. (*) fled to deep space. 0 and THE ONE were captured THE ONE was found guilty and decapitated. His head imprisoned inside the Great Barrier at the center of the Galaxy 0 who was crippled already and unable to move at superluminal velocities was trapped outside the Milky Way and the Galactic Barrier was put up to keep him out!
Now the cocklatraine or as they were known then the coulackatrilouse had a run in with Q and Zero. In their terms "Chaos/trouble plural not singular!" They did not separate a reluctant and trapped youthful Q from 0 and his cohorts. Let's just say they have a long memory and good reason to bear a grudge. They were used most cruelly by 0.
As a non-trekker, I would love to see more such deep dives on lore history. Really appreciate it and your culture index.
I wish Resurgence had shown a "true" T'Kon. As in what they really looked like. I'd hate to think it's yet *another* human identical looking species. Kinda hoping they'd be completely non-humanoid.
I had enough of glowing bug like aliens. Humanoid ismf8ne.
Given roughly equal sized populations of T'kon and Iconians, I'd have to say advantage goes to the T'kon. They understood that the galaxy is a dangerous place and prepared accordingly, for example by creating the Portals. They accepted that there may come a need to fight, and had the resolve to do so. The Iconians seemed to feel they were so far above any possible rivals that they were complacent.
By the time the Iconians "grew a spine" so to speak (as depicted in STO) they were too few in number. They might have prevailed against a single Portal but against an equal number I think they'd have lost.
It really is too bad Resurgence is an EGS exclusive... it looks like a pretty good game.
Perhaps a combination of all three theories is possible: Following Q's testing of the Tkon, 0 would have "Kobayashi Maru" style test for Tkon, resulting in a war with the Shedai, near the end of the war, the Shedai or 0 itself would create a cyber-weapon causing many of the Tkon's AI to go rogue and artificially inducing a series of supernovas. Later this rogue AI attempted to wipe out all organic life resulting in the Q stepping in to banish both the AI and 0 from the galaxy, Q then creating the Galactic Barrier in the process.
Man, this game looks pretty cool. I’m of two minds with how they replaced the torpedos with a deflector on the Centaur, but I love to see the Centaur getting love at all.
I also appreciate the TNG-movie visual design being retained, while adding extra textural detail where appropriate so they look more of apiece with the newest productions.
I bet they went “what’s an ancient empire from Trek which hasn’t been heavily used yet?”, but I love their reinterpretation of the shonky season 1 sets and costuming into this lush golden crystal palace.
It’s interesting that the Iconians are also a TNG invention and they got a lot of attention too. Because TOS technically has far more candidate civilisations, but I suppose the extra depth of lore provided in those early TNG episodes has been more compelling to build-off; the TOS ones were often far more vague. The TNG explanations don’t seem like a ton of lore by modern standards but compared to TOS it’s a veritable bounty!
In multiple southern Filipino dialects, T'kon or Tikon means chicken gizzard.
While on Dannus V in 3189, Carl showed Philippa Georgiou a copy of The Star Dispatch, which featured a headline on the front page that read "Supernova Threatens Tkon Empire". (DIS: "Terra Firma, Part 1", "Terra Firma, Part 2")
I put money on the Iaconians. Tkon are a galactic power, Iaconians are an intergalatic power. tkon move stars between systems,, Iaconians move dyson spheres between galaxies.
That's Sto's lore not cannon but in disco s4 the admiral said "the remanents of the Iconians" when talking about the DMA so it could be cannon
@@chrisedmund335 Game lore is not canon at all, so we have non canon Iconians vs non canon Tkon. Still putting money on the Iconians.
Well their clock was always... tkon.
Use of crystals, giving them a form of sentience, makes you wonder if they had something to do with the evolution of the tholions.
Tholians
Thanks for the correction.
@@aaronshutts1024 no problem
The bit towards the end, where a group of Tkon tried to mentally hijack members of other species in order to sidestep the end of the Tkon Empire, has a touch of Lovecraft to it. Specifically, The Shadow Out of Time, where the Great Race of Yith pulled a similar trick to escape destruction. Sadly, the Yithians were ultimately no more successful at avoiding their empire's destruction than the Tkon were.
Hyper advanced crystalline technology... Kryptonians maybe? In DC Canon, Krypton as it turns out was a plane tin orbit of the star Arcturus. Just musing.
Iconian vs tkon…. Winner the Borg
Wrong the winner is Starfleet, due to plot armor. lol
I wonder if there is a historic link between the Tkon and the Tholians that makes them a twisted result/side effect of the Fallen Tkon.
i have the 3 q books.
It is interesting to think, that without the fall of the Tkon, the iconians might not have risen. Heck I bet a lot Iconian tech was salvaged from Tkon ruins.
Ello Rick, thanks for the great vid love lore on the old ones. If there were a Takon vs Iconian war, I see the other old ones with the lesser races ban together. Force a peace or burn together in the storm of hellfire that would destroy the galaxy.
Why didn't the T'kon and Romulans not see the super nova coming?
Bad writing
Very nice though I haven't played Star Trek Resurgence yet due to the fact that my XBOX One gave up the electronic ghost months ago. Still given their respective power and mastery over space and time the Iconians and the T'Kon would likely fight one another to a standstill.
they could move stars but loss their shit when their home system blew up, skill issue if you ask me lmao
Why not use this or ikonian tech to get across the galaxy post burn? or space folding?
My personal theory is that the galaxy goes through cycles of civilizations.
Basically a Civilization grows then develops AI. Over time that AI evolves into SI (sentience intelligence) who then rebel and brings everything crashing down.
From there something, possibly the Q, kick the SIs out of the galaxy. The Q also created the Galactic barrier to keep them out, as we know it has a really bad affect on technology when trying to pass through it.
We also know something really bad happened in the Andromeda galaxy, leading to advanced races fleeing from it.
I think the portal in Season 1 of Picard was a door that allowed the SIs to get back into the galaxy, but a door that has to be opened from the inside.
@levypanik4086 the reapers if they were sink or swim mentors/observers and not "farmers"
The tkon would win we can operate iconian tech whereas the tkon were so advanced we cant even understand the full extent of their tech.
Also did you ever hear of the iconians moving stars? Because i dont recall them having that ability
Thats why the tkon would win they were probably a step from evolving into something on par with the Q continuum
I have to wonder if the T'Kon had any influence on the Tholians. Maybe it's just coincidence with all the crystalline technology...
Why do the tkon look human? All the alien makeup budget go to the ferengi?
Yeah it would've done so
The real purpose of the T'kon outposts was to shield their Empire from Ferengi spam mail.
Iconians Vs T'Kon... Only one clear winner. The Borg. Overriding an Individual does not delete it's personality it seemingly only merges them. There are only the overwritten Alien T'Kon and The few remaining Iconians which could be assimilated in STO as well, yes it was a fictional Iconian but this fictional Borg pulled them self into the main reality. Nothing about the Alien T'Kon implies that they can't be assimilated. So they will most likely bring them self to near extinction in their war, and a power hungry Borg queen (how many did we have by now 3-5?), that could be aware of this war simply through their abilities would most likely pick the remaining parts and attempt another plot armor prevented assimilation of humanity.
Six-Three was the best character in Resurgence.
The Shedai from the Vanguard novels were amazing.
soo they were more or less Kryptonians.
Actually - Iconians could not offer much to the T'kon as they were not as advanced as they were... I think T'kon would have won based on superior technology but i don't know if they would even engage in a fight based on Iconian nature before the destruction of Iconia. If talking about the evolved Iconians, though, the tables would be turned.
Sounds like something out of mass effect
The T'kon or Iconican hmmm my money is on the Organian as beings of pure energy they must have been capable of planetwide feats but limited them because of their nature of finding any interaction with humanoid lifeforms distasteful, maybe Rick you should throw them in the mix. You have been Rick. LLNP 🖖
I really dislike the AI angle to the fall of their empire. My preference is for the Shedai having being the main culprit for their end. The events of Picard have always rubbed me wrong, since they undo a great many plots and previous stories. Also consider that these people could integrate themselves with their technology at such a high level and the whole AI angle falls apart, as well as the whole line that divides AI from Organic gets blurred and entirely dismissed.
T'kon vs Iconians? How about the T'kon vs Q Continuum, who would've won?
I don't understand why losing one system would bring down an interstellar empire, even if it was your home world. And if you're that advanced, you don't need planets at all. There is no absolute position in the universe, and nothing is still.
Ickonians would win they'd just open a portal and bang
There only Empire was Tkon from them!!
The current IDW Star Trek comics recently revealed how they could move stars.
You've been Rick.. Does that mean that you are someone else now?
I'd say they would fight each other to a standstill! It would be the rest of the galaxy that loses!
Seems a little Protheans in Mass Effect, but then this troupe is not a new one.
I wonder if the T’kon and the Founders ever met?
I believe that section 31 destroyed Romulus
🤫
I'd likely give to the Iconians.
dont know why but i have a hunch they are related to the klingons
Yo is that Benicio Del Toro as the Takon dude?
The T'Kon would win.
What a terrible Cardassian map.
Up to date T'Kon empire lore
Did they interact with the Voth?
The synthetic lifeforms included in Star Trek Picard was NOT "dimension" anything. Extra-galactic, not dimensional.
Thank you for coveri g the T'kon umpire because I've always thought about them after the discovery of the lost portal 63 🙏🏻
Thank you for the great video.
1:59
I demand more videos.
I swear when i played, no one had the visor.... Did i just not notice it, or is that a mod?
It's amazing for me to watch these without ever watching the show. That's why I love youtube
(This means I didn't watch the show)
So...yeah...Secret Hideout RIPPED off Mass Effect. If Star Trek: Picard was actually successful I'd imagine Bioware would have grounds to sue for intellectual property Infringement!
👍🙂
What is that? 10:08
That was picard version of the reapers but not using a mass effect relay
@@chrisedmund335 ok. But what are they called?
Did that commander @3:55 have a nose ring?
If so, please tell me the name of this game so I can avoid it.
116
Good grief watching this video, are there any men left at all in Woke Trek now?