Do Rain and ZeLoT know that tens of thousands of middle-aged men outside Korea have a vested interest in their late night ladder matches? And that it is all we look forward to? No matter the outcome, it would be baller to crowdfund a boX between these two! Looking forward to the finale of this epic saga
This 14 game series is my favorite thing out of this channel so far. These are so many fast, snappy games, with so many different build variations. They keep playing each other, so they're both preparing, and adapting to what the other guy is doing. So even though it's cheesy Rain can kind of expect it will be coming. Seriously what a gem you found here! I'm going to learn some of these builds! Seriously, I didn't know 3 hatch hydra had so many different potential follow ups. So cool to see.
This series is incredible! Best of 14 really gives a deep look at their approaches and skill levels. I'm not sure the interest from you/the GITC, but I really love seeing some of the less known or old school names, like Zelot, Brain, Ample, Leta, Scan, Nada. There have also been some incredible 1v1 and 2v2 fastest map games with guys like Light, Bisu, Shuttle, Brain, etc that are an absolute blast to watch Thanks for the BW content!
I am a huge fan of these series between top players, seeing the evolving mind games and meta games. a 14 game series between these two is some of the best SC content I could hope for. 10/10
Great set of games and great casting! Wow, just absolutely nuts, this series is like watching a street fight between some kung fu masters who aren't afraid to fight dirty
Protoss vs Zerg has (or at least had) the lowest WR (not by a huge margin just like ~1%) of the Race Vs Race at ASL for a reason I guess. The second game with him still killing Rain despite an extremely early scout just shows how messed up the hydra kill threat is.
It's really somehow satisfying to see hydras destroy cannons. Something about it is very relaxing^^. But too much kidding aside, I think it was a wonderful opportunity for Rain to train to play against early aggression and all-ins.
I don't play Protoss, so there is probably some nuance I don't understand, but I really don't get why when tosses see infinite hydras at their front they still go forward with making sairs and cut all zealot production. It felt like Rain could have held a couple more of these rushes with like 2-3 more zealots or even like 2 goons produced after a large amount of hydras showed up at the front.
The amount of games lost to ling and hydra busts feels crazy, I expected like 2-3 but if a smart top player can’t consistently defend against these pushes then maybe I’ve been coping and they’re more imba than I thought and it’s not just a mid-level skill issue, lol
Rain goes same build every single time not respecting the possibility of another ling all-in. I don't think that ling all-in can be held with gate -> nexus -> forge -> cannon -> cyber core -> cannon which is what Rain does at least on that second to last game. Perhaps the build needs to be adjusted to gate -> nexus -> force -> cannon -> (decision based on what is seen) If there is a heavy ling flood and wall is damaged: second cannon If there is not a heavy ling flood: continue the build as normal (i.e. cyber core) Perhaps another option is to cut probes to get the cyber core and second cannon faster. Interesting...wish we had a game where this variation is tried or otherwise the build is adjusted to hold the ling all in after same opening build order...
Zelot had some really nice micro in the 2nd game. Instead of killing the gateway, he let it live at very low hp. The gateway acted as a wall to block the zealots
In the 2nd game,I don't get it why Rain didn't make more cannons after the first one. Didn't he expect another all in attack after the first one? He really late just started the 2nd cannon which had no chance to finish. Or was he too much down on resources? I have the idea that if he immediatly started other cannons he would have hold the stand.
The decisions of the "smartest protoss player in the world" seem to be quite strange in the zerg-win games. He saw the hydra coming and... almost ignored it until it was too late. He saw high link production but his defense was not ready anyways. It looked very strange. Maybe he expected that once he scouted the tech, Zelot would have changed his plans. But this player is mostly extremely agressive - it is just his style. And anyways usually the huge problems with rush are related with unexpected adversary actions, but here it was not really the case. So, either this player is not as bright as Artosis sais, or his skills are not high enough for the top level.
Is rain adjusting his opening for zelot or is he blind countering aggression? Meaning is he taking time to work his standard openings against all ins or is he straight playing to win? Great series loving it give us more
Yo @Artosiscasts, Maybe a stupid question but why do players who play 14 games against each other do Ling/Hydra all ins? I assume they don't care about there Ladder ranking. Is this just for practice a specific build? Wouldnt it be reasonable to go into a proper macro game more often? What is the reasoning for this? You could argue that rain only does forge or Gateway expands as well, is this just because, this Is the meta and you have to play like that? Obviously huge noob here :)
love the packing iof a short game to a longer one, so you never can be sure about the true gamelength maybe put a short one as second game in the future, when u are at 10 of 20 min its "guaranteed" that there is just one game :D lol, its 3 games now, AWESOME :D :D
I think the match has to end even. I mean why else would the matchmaking continnue to match them 14 times. It's because they each keep winning one and losing one and they must be very similar MMR rating.
Is it possible to mix some SC2 games? Buuuut cast it in a beginners mode? heh, for likd me that do not know the game but love to know to understand when watchnig some games. Don't have the time to play it, adulting hurts.
To be fair, it kinda seems to me that Rain is playing this as if he didn't know that he's going to be facing cheesy ling allins and 3 hatch hydras and is still trying to cut corners where possible, just for practice. I think in real tournament setting he would play around Zelot's style more heavily and the score would be way more Rain favored, which is why Rain is always in ro24 ASL and Zelot isn't
Pylons have alot of health so the damage the hydras would take while trying to focus fire would be more than what they would by quickly taking down the cannons.
![[ENG] 2024 SSL AUTUMN | FINALS SoulKey vs Sharp (Tastosis)](/img/n.gif)
"5 zealots if you count the player zelot" -artosis
“Camage; canon damage” - Artosis
Artois
Fartosis
@@TheRealCalPerrpoopfeast420
This set of games deserves its own playlist imho. Very entertaining stuff.
I agree, i actually looked for one before i saw your comment
agree 100%!
Do Rain and ZeLoT know that tens of thousands of middle-aged men outside Korea have a vested interest in their late night ladder matches? And that it is all we look forward to?
No matter the outcome, it would be baller to crowdfund a boX between these two!
Looking forward to the finale of this epic saga
I also love that Rain is great at giving Zealot a taste of his own medicine lol
The easiest way to throw those types off is to force them into a role they are never in a position to play.
both in playstyle and using the unit he's named after 😂
These games make ZVZ crackhead knife fights look like well organized gladitator fights, and im all for it.
You underestimate the excitement actually. I’ve never looked forward to BW matches like I’ve looked forward to you casting more of this series
Huge fan of your ingame analysis and commentary of the pro scene. Thanks Arty
This 14 game series is my favorite thing out of this channel so far. These are so many fast, snappy games, with so many different build variations. They keep playing each other, so they're both preparing, and adapting to what the other guy is doing. So even though it's cheesy Rain can kind of expect it will be coming. Seriously what a gem you found here!
I'm going to learn some of these builds! Seriously, I didn't know 3 hatch hydra had so many different potential follow ups. So cool to see.
"They ran into each other 14 times" ... probably all within 2 hours lol
I love how Zelot literally shoves his agro builds in your face and then STILL beats you.
Different races, different play styles. It really shows how balanced the game is with top-level players.
With Terran being the hardest race, obviously.
@@godlyobject6509 Obviously.
Chills, literally chills. The suspense is killing me! :D
Grade A set and commentary. I really enjoy the narrative of these games and the overall set in addition to just watching quality SC matches.
Best video yet Arty. That’s all the StarCraft I needed for the day in one go
This series is incredible! Best of 14 really gives a deep look at their approaches and skill levels.
I'm not sure the interest from you/the GITC, but I really love seeing some of the less known or old school names, like Zelot, Brain, Ample, Leta, Scan, Nada. There have also been some incredible 1v1 and 2v2 fastest map games with guys like Light, Bisu, Shuttle, Brain, etc that are an absolute blast to watch
Thanks for the BW content!
What a crazy series! Can't wait to see who comes out on top.
I'm blown away at the variety coming out of these guys! I think we need a 14 game series in the next ASL
Dude, these games are amazing!
Love how in that last match, Rain was like, "You rush me? I RUSH YOU!!!"
I am a huge fan of these series between top players, seeing the evolving mind games and meta games. a 14 game series between these two is some of the best SC content I could hope for. 10/10
Loving this series, awesome stuff
This is so good. Its great because they're both so active and aggressive and experimental. Not much sitting back and macro-ing
This series is super-fun to watch.
Okay!! I've been waiting for these.
One of my alltime favorite series of games.
What a joy to watch.
Great set of games and great casting! Wow, just absolutely nuts, this series is like watching a street fight between some kung fu masters who aren't afraid to fight dirty
14 games of my TOP favourite players from their respective races. Gift from heavens. Thank you Artosis
Fun fact about Rain: Both major tournaments he has won (1 ASL 1 KSL) were against another Protoss in the finals
Protoss vs Zerg has (or at least had) the lowest WR (not by a huge margin just like ~1%) of the Race Vs Race at ASL for a reason I guess. The second game with him still killing Rain despite an extremely early scout just shows how messed up the hydra kill threat is.
this set has been sick. ty for the daily casts
this was a great opportunity to yell ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? at the end.
Best series ever. I'd enjoy a post series build analysis by you.
What an exciting series! Happy New Year Arty!
The anticipation going into the final 2 hames is huge!!
Can't get any more 'to and fro' than these two!!
Perfectly timed upload for my lunch break.
These games make me giggle like a little school girl, good stuff!!
Morning tosis! Thanks for the casts!
I like how zelot is dragging rain down to his level.
If this were boxing, zelot's style attracts fans the most haha.
Amazing series should have their own playlist
Good series! Thanks for the cast.
A consistently awesome series.
Yes, we are enjoying, thanks for asking
Epic series - love this kind of stuff
This series is crazy! I'm thoroughly enjoying these games. Last 2 let's go!
I saw 17 min video of ZvP and I thought - hmm, relatively short game.
How should I know it was actually 4 games!!! :D
In game 2, could he have built the pylon more to the right, then built a forge to block lings coming out from the main ?
The series ended on what might be the most back and forth PvZ ever. Rain vs Zelot might be one of the best match ups, period.
And here I thought I was about to watch just one game lol...
I believe this is how Zerg is best portrayed by swarming the opponent asap.
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.
.
.
.
.
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Its interesting if zerg could hold by starting a sunk at 16:41 with the drone.
It's really somehow satisfying to see hydras destroy cannons. Something about it is very relaxing^^. But too much kidding aside, I think it was a wonderful opportunity for Rain to train to play against early aggression and all-ins.
You might be a psychopath /s
Or a zerg player :p
@@dj_koen1265 :-D
feels like when you fight zealot you gonna need to assume the dude is going to go all in so you will have to be ready to overcommit on the defense.
is there new blood coming through the korean scene? who are some of the youngest ASL-caliber players? those matches would be cool to see
hEy guYsSs WELcomE bAck itsSSsSs aRrRTOSISSSS
Amazing to see such high level players so evenly matched! And it would absolutely make a great climax to an eSports anime 😂
Love the enthusiasm
Love this series!!
said omg to myself 1 second before Arty says omg haha
its crazy neither of these guys got up for a pee or a drink or something and missed each other in the queue
I don't play Protoss, so there is probably some nuance I don't understand, but I really don't get why when tosses see infinite hydras at their front they still go forward with making sairs and cut all zealot production. It felt like Rain could have held a couple more of these rushes with like 2-3 more zealots or even like 2 goons produced after a large amount of hydras showed up at the front.
goons deadl half dmg v hydras. And do you also Have gasmining and the core done by that time?
He needs a sair to see when Zerg cuts hydra production. Besides without sair, you only see, what Zerg allows you to see.
The amount of games lost to ling and hydra busts feels crazy, I expected like 2-3 but if a smart top player can’t consistently defend against these pushes then maybe I’ve been coping and they’re more imba than I thought and it’s not just a mid-level skill issue, lol
Pvz is a messed up matchup
Probably worse than any other
Still a skilled player can overcome those odds
feels good seeing the best players also loseing to cheeses and not just me ^^
Imagine how much Terrans would cry if they had to deal with hydra busts, lol.
You could say Game 9 was a bit of a gamble gamble
I see you, RT.
RT "Hey guys" octave level 2 - low
Rain goes same build every single time not respecting the possibility of another ling all-in. I don't think that ling all-in can be held with gate -> nexus -> forge -> cannon -> cyber core -> cannon which is what Rain does at least on that second to last game.
Perhaps the build needs to be adjusted to gate -> nexus -> force -> cannon -> (decision based on what is seen)
If there is a heavy ling flood and wall is damaged: second cannon
If there is not a heavy ling flood: continue the build as normal (i.e. cyber core)
Perhaps another option is to cut probes to get the cyber core and second cannon faster.
Interesting...wish we had a game where this variation is tried or otherwise the build is adjusted to hold the ling all in after same opening build order...
Absolute nail-biters here, amazing
Zelot had some really nice micro in the 2nd game. Instead of killing the gateway, he let it live at very low hp. The gateway acted as a wall to block the zealots
Yeah, that was awesome!
This set is absolutely amazing but if this particular video was in ASL boy would it ever be a disappointing night, lol.
ZeLoT has taken a step up in my estimation
In the 2nd game,I don't get it why Rain didn't make more cannons after the first one. Didn't he expect another all in attack after the first one? He really late just started the 2nd cannon which had no chance to finish. Or was he too much down on resources? I have the idea that if he immediatly started other cannons he would have hold the stand.
That ling all in was amazing
Action packt! @.@
"Huge range of plays?"
There has been like 10 3hatch hydras lol
aaaaaaaaaaa what a series!!!!
The decisions of the "smartest protoss player in the world" seem to be quite strange in the zerg-win games. He saw the hydra coming and... almost ignored it until it was too late. He saw high link production but his defense was not ready anyways. It looked very strange. Maybe he expected that once he scouted the tech, Zelot would have changed his plans. But this player is mostly extremely agressive - it is just his style. And anyways usually the huge problems with rush are related with unexpected adversary actions, but here it was not really the case. So, either this player is not as bright as Artosis sais, or his skills are not high enough for the top level.
Is rain adjusting his opening for zelot or is he blind countering aggression? Meaning is he taking time to work his standard openings against all ins or is he straight playing to win? Great series loving it give us more
what was rains build at the end? was it double gateway?
I am enjoying.
This game shows that proton cannons really need a buff, they are too weak against Zerglings and Hydras.
Yo @Artosiscasts,
Maybe a stupid question but why do players who play 14 games against each other do Ling/Hydra all ins? I assume they don't care about there Ladder ranking. Is this just for practice a specific build? Wouldnt it be reasonable to go into a proper macro game more often? What is the reasoning for this? You could argue that rain only does forge or Gateway expands as well, is this just because, this Is the meta and you have to play like that?
Obviously huge noob here :)
amazing!
Love a cannon rush did a few
Hydraliks are all you need.
Yes RT. This is a winner.
love the packing iof a short game to a longer one, so you never can be sure about the true gamelength
maybe put a short one as second game in the future, when u are at 10 of 20 min its "guaranteed" that there is just one game :D
lol, its 3 games now, AWESOME :D :D
Mooooore !
zelot was so damn efficient in the first 11 games...
I think the match has to end even. I mean why else would the matchmaking continnue to match them 14 times. It's because they each keep winning one and losing one and they must be very similar MMR rating.
Chills!
Remember to say instead of "dirty cannon rusher" strategic building placer to avoid using anti protoss discriminatory language.
17:00 Bruv
WOOT WOOT !!!!!!!!
WOW WOW WOW GAMES TY ARTY
Is it possible to mix some SC2 games? Buuuut cast it in a beginners mode? heh, for likd me that do not know the game but love to know to understand when watchnig some games. Don't have the time to play it, adulting hurts.
TOO CRAZY
To be fair, it kinda seems to me that Rain is playing this as if he didn't know that he's going to be facing cheesy ling allins and 3 hatch hydras and is still trying to cut corners where possible, just for practice. I think in real tournament setting he would play around Zelot's style more heavily and the score would be way more Rain favored, which is why Rain is always in ro24 ASL and Zelot isn't
14:14 lollllllllll
HONESTLY
Efort is the most aggressive
why not attack the artosis pylon in the wall game 2 instead of the cannons?
Pylons have alot of health so the damage the hydras would take while trying to focus fire would be more than what they would by quickly taking down the cannons.