Tablet weaving is easy to learn and cheap to get started in. Once you learn the principles, you can design your own patterns. I once traded a sash I wove for a rifle.
If you really think about it it seems that people in the past were very proficient and what they did, more than we can even imagine, But look at it this way, if someone is going to be a weaver, he and probably she, would start from early age and focus most of her time on that. They did not go to school or after school activities, they learned essential life skills and perfected them. So it might look hard to us for someone to memorize how to do a pattern, but if you did it 100 times by the time you are 12... You actually get so good at it you can create patterns in your mind and know exactly what to do to make them via simple muscle memory.
Agreed. The same thing, of course, with other things like knitting and crocheting. Even though I know, logically, what you're saying, it still amazes me when I see old Victorian era photos of very small children knitting. Today, all they're interested in are smart phones and stupid app games. Of course, it's all a matter of what they're exposed to.
I have taught a five year old to knit successfully. It does become muscle memory. I will try with my boys when they are older. Some people are more proficient in creating patterns (in any medium) and that is a superb skill to have. It helps with mastery of many things. Practice does make perfect, but some people have a head start in skills, but with most things dedication can have you exceed those.
I learned to crochet at 5. Since then, I have taught myself tatting, inkle weaving, kumihimo, and fingerloop braiding, all in the last 5 years. Part of it is innate talent, but part of it is being so used to working with thread that it's practically instinct to know how the thread should work in the project. If you teach a child early enough, it not only gives them something to do and learn, but it works their mind in different ways and allows for a new kind of mental flexibility. Plus, there's the pride they feel when they finish a project and can say 'I made that'. And that pride never really goes away. It doesn't matter how old you get, there is a certain sense of satisfaction in tying a project off, or adding that last bit of polish, or putting in that last nail, and being able to step back and say 'This is work well done'.
@@warriormaiden9829 yep. My five year old is very interested in learning to crochet like her mother, and I have had my oldest 2 kids in the forge with me learning to forge and work on a project with me.
tbf, she says "they didn't put it down like this," which makes me think she was referring to the very modern-looking pattern. (It kinda looks like a FiberWorks draft to me)
its nice to have your own special way of remembering how something is done. i remember how to spell beautiful by thinking of jim carrey saying it "B-E-A-UTIFUL".
Also by repetition and long practice. Humans used to be able to remember the lyrics or words to song or stories that took 30 minutes or more to tell, so it's a given that they'd be able to weave complex patterns easily after a bit of practice.
I have so many craft things on the go but I really want to do this. I don't want to spend much, just use what I have and seeing it done this way is enlightening.
I have recently started tablet weaving, and find it mind-boggling how anyone can remember intricate patterns by heart, BUT we spend our time learning and remembering lots of other stuff. Reading, writing, mathematics, history, geography, biology, physics, second and third languages, and when I remember the sheer amount of stuff I had to cram into my head for vet school that also seems like an impossible task. So if you take all that away, what we need to remember nowadays, I guess if you consider learning weaving from a very young age and doing it every day for several hours, memorizing patterns becomes a little less impossible to imagine.
@@dr.lexwinter8604 nah i used to go to stavanger university there are very few sceezy man and the gender ratio is 70 per cent female . Btw Jernaldergården is regulary visited by various groups so is normal people to ask questions. I think she got into this without proper cloththing underneath or she has a crappy day
Tablet weaving is using cards with 4 holes from left to right marked A B on top then D C on bottom. You can find lovely parterns online One side is called Z and the other is S. don't know why. I only had my first Intruduction to this type of weave this morning.
Thanks Lilly Fraser. I am glad to hear that there are enthusiastic people like you practicing this beautiful traditional weaving technique. All the best with it!
the difference between the past and now: then things were made to fit and made perfectly/extremely detailed so that they would last generations now things are made cheaply and without care
@@PrettyH8Mach1n3 Basically. A frienship bracelet is technically a stitch from tatting, otherwise known as the Josephine's knot. Weaving has no knots, other than the ones necessary for lengthening/holding thread. A knot in the middle of a weaving (unless it is tapestry weaving) is seen as a flaw. :)
Flax weaving archeological evidence was found in Northern Africa-Egypt dating back to 6,000-5,000 BC (Neolithic Age). The Bible speaks of weaving in many places: Prov. 31:18; Exo. 28:39; Exo. 35:25; Isaiah 19:9; 2 Kings 23:7; Job 7:6; Judges 16:13; Isaiah 38:23. Silk weavers developed in China about 3,000 BC. Around 800-700 AD vertical looms were found in Asia, Africa and Europe. Card-weaving (tablet weaving) goes back to the 8th century BC during Iron Age Europe. There is so much history to the development of weaving.
عمل جميل و متقن 👍 هي في لباسها و تسريحة شعرها تبدو كأنها من الزمن القديم ، و في كل منطقة من العالم يوجد امثال هذه الفتاة يجب ان يحافظوا على الفن القديم مثل هذا 👍👍 فعلا شيئ جميل و رااائع
The technique she's using is named BIRKA but I don't know the name of this motif.Once you understand the system of notation you can create your own motifs. There's a free software named GTT that allows you to weave existing motifs or create your own. @1:17 she's showing a printout from this app, with the weaving diagram in grey, the threading of the tablets at bottom of the grey diagram, and the resulting band in color.
@@valeriy8502 I've tried using an app but you lose as much time learning how to use it as you would save once you knew it perfectly and frankly, when you decide to weave, what you're looking for is a contact with the materials, including pen and paper, and color pencils. But what an app does is make you stare at a computer screen and waste a lot of time. Plus it removes an important aspect which is that of THINKING and UNDERSTANDING the process because when you are told "turn 10 forward, 2 back" etc. you're just following orders instead of acting like a thinking person, with all the frustrations that go with tablet weaving before you "get it".
@@Khamomil Oh with my computer skills I don't think it would be worth while at all... I was just kind of amazed. It might be helpful for learning how to compute the patterns in one's head
It's amazing becaus......... 😄😄😅 Yes IT IS amazing!!!! Simple technic, easy to learn basics, beautiful art work and you can improve your skills from simple work pieces for use to complicatet pattern for custom design products!!!! Amazing 👍😄
W😲W A REALLY Beautiful LOST ART ....from SIMPLER Time & Place !!!! This HUMBLE Pretty young lady knows the SECRET to BOTH .... HOW to KEEP WARM & this AWESOME Weaving Technique !!! The other girl should take notes. 👍😏👍 P.S. She does a GREAT JOB...ADVERTISING Celtic Viking fashion & style.
People remember how to weave intricate carpets! They start at the age of 5 and this is all they do. That's why generation after generation is able to remember these patters.
i dont how what its called, but im attempting to copy it. both outermost cards have two brown threads diagonal from eachother and the same with the white and blue thread, so im assuming all the cards are like that. iv attempted to copy the pattern from her pattern and how the band looks to be coloured, linked imgur.com/a/fGgbU it will be maybe a month, maybe two until i actually attempt this, but if i succeed i will note the turning order and any diference in card thread colours and come back here to comment it good luck if you try it before me
Achei interessante ,mas poderia ter uma tradução, e o passo a passo e o tipo de linha usado e essas madeiras onde pode ser comprado e onde achar esses desenhos
If I had to guess I would say the girl in the background is having some bad period pains since she was hunched over holding her abdomen like that, you still gotta show up for work and it sucks :(
es muy bello ese trabajo. .solo que veo a la otra chica muy afligida...entumida no se ....pero es bellisimo el trabajo...BENDICIONES y espero ambas esten bien.
If you understand the process well and sit there for like an hour thinking it out, you could surely just make the tablets and sequence again from examining the ribbon than you're trying to replicate, wouldn't have to necessarily remember it
It seems they were about to leave because it is beginning to rain, when Mark asked the friend to show her old technics. So she is waiting in the cold, to when finally this is over. She is a little annoyed but still tries to laugh at the camera sometimes. A very loyal friend and very respectful towards visitors.
Also I would not be surprised if they had some kind of rhyme or little song for each pattern - that way even a longer sequence can be remembered much easier. And if you do these patterns every day (instead of just sometimes, when you want to have some fun) that also gets into muscle memory. I assume the "younger girls" would be much slower, but advised by older women to get them used to the right patterns.
We have a pretty good idea actually! The tools to make modern paper are fairly distinctive. You need fine wood pulp so a grinder of some sort. You need a basin for water to float the pulp in, and you need a fine mesh or cloth in a frame to capture the pulp. Archaeologists would know by now to a fair certainty.
She was a student either volunteering for the museum or working as summer job. (I don’t exactly remember). She and her friends were very friendly, knowledgeable and enthusiastic introducing these tools and showing the museum to the visitors.
@@MarkSzaboUK working as a summer job??? I just discovered by new dream job, haha (plus the shoes of the girl behind her look so comfy and soft. I'd love to be able to wear them without being thinking I'm a weirdo, haha.) Amazing video thank you 💚
@@Vexarax I can imagine:) They were wearing really comfy shoes and dresses. Give it a go! There are many places like this in Scandinavia and in other countries too.
Tablet weaving is easy to learn and cheap to get started in. Once you learn the principles, you can design your own patterns. I once traded a sash I wove for a rifle.
Bravo!
Yes very good job on that trade
That is literally cool as fuck mate.
did you use that rifle to get your sash back?
@@RealitiesCookiejar HAHAHA you just won the internet
If you really think about it it seems that people in the past were very proficient and what they did, more than we can even imagine, But look at it this way, if someone is going to be a weaver, he and probably she, would start from early age and focus most of her time on that. They did not go to school or after school activities, they learned essential life skills and perfected them. So it might look hard to us for someone to memorize how to do a pattern, but if you did it 100 times by the time you are 12... You actually get so good at it you can create patterns in your mind and know exactly what to do to make them via simple muscle memory.
Agreed. The same thing, of course, with other things like knitting and crocheting. Even though I know, logically, what you're saying, it still amazes me when I see old Victorian era photos of very small children knitting. Today, all they're interested in are smart phones and stupid app games. Of course, it's all a matter of what they're exposed to.
I have taught a five year old to knit successfully. It does become muscle memory. I will try with my boys when they are older.
Some people are more proficient in creating patterns (in any medium) and that is a superb skill to have. It helps with mastery of many things.
Practice does make perfect, but some people have a head start in skills, but with most things dedication can have you exceed those.
I learned to crochet at 5. Since then, I have taught myself tatting, inkle weaving, kumihimo, and fingerloop braiding, all in the last 5 years. Part of it is innate talent, but part of it is being so used to working with thread that it's practically instinct to know how the thread should work in the project. If you teach a child early enough, it not only gives them something to do and learn, but it works their mind in different ways and allows for a new kind of mental flexibility. Plus, there's the pride they feel when they finish a project and can say 'I made that'. And that pride never really goes away. It doesn't matter how old you get, there is a certain sense of satisfaction in tying a project off, or adding that last bit of polish, or putting in that last nail, and being able to step back and say 'This is work well done'.
@@warriormaiden9829 yep. My five year old is very interested in learning to crochet like her mother, and I have had my oldest 2 kids in the forge with me learning to forge and work on a project with me.
She is doing an outstanding job with her demonstration of card weaving and the weaving itself! Beautiful work!
Dude?
The world's first computing system .
Probably nowhere near the first!
The Abacus is far older. It might be the oldest computing system, about 5,000 years old.
Amazing!
There are far older methods of calculating things. Hell, the Great Sphinx is over 10,000 years old. It was old even before Egypt.
The abacus is really just a notepad, not a calculator. The device isn't a "computing system", the operator is.
I doubt the Iron Age weavers had no diagram at all. They could very well have drawn them on hides or engraved in clay. They had so many motifs!
Yes, let’s stumble upon this video and decide to doubt the pro weaver 😂
@@NaughtyBitts Mind you, I'm an advanced tablet weaver myself. Why do you assume I'm stupid and arrogant?
I also bet it got passed down from one generation of women to another. Just like knitting and crocheting did in my family!
@@Khamomil your words not mine
tbf, she says "they didn't put it down like this," which makes me think she was referring to the very modern-looking pattern. (It kinda looks like a FiberWorks draft to me)
Our ancestors probably remembered the weaving techniques by remembering a story that pattern pertained to, or maybe even a song.
its nice to have your own special way of remembering how something is done. i remember how to spell beautiful by thinking of jim carrey saying it "B-E-A-UTIFUL".
Also by repetition and long practice. Humans used to be able to remember the lyrics or words to song or stories that took 30 minutes or more to tell, so it's a given that they'd be able to weave complex patterns easily after a bit of practice.
I’d love to learn this so I can make table cloths, belts, and other textiles for my home
Elewys has a channel on TH-cam that's great to get started with!
Morgan Donner explains it brilliantly.
If you made a tablecloth this way, you wouldn’t let any food near the damn thing after working on it for a year! Hehe
Interesting technique-and her English is flawless.
Absolutely gorgeous pattern!!
The lady in the back has "help me" eyes.
She was taken from another clan in a recent raid.
I have so many craft things on the go but I really want to do this. I don't want to spend much, just use what I have and seeing it done this way is enlightening.
This is wonderful! Haven't seen it done in 35 years.
I have recently started tablet weaving, and find it mind-boggling how anyone can remember intricate patterns by heart, BUT we spend our time learning and remembering lots of other stuff. Reading, writing, mathematics, history, geography, biology, physics, second and third languages, and when I remember the sheer amount of stuff I had to cram into my head for vet school that also seems like an impossible task. So if you take all that away, what we need to remember nowadays, I guess if you consider learning weaving from a very young age and doing it every day for several hours, memorizing patterns becomes a little less impossible to imagine.
The girl in the back looks very cold, or bored.
Or sick of creepy foreign men skeezing onto her all day.
@@dr.lexwinter8604 nah i used to go to stavanger university there are very few sceezy man and the gender ratio is 70 per cent female . Btw Jernaldergården is regulary visited by various groups so is normal people to ask questions. I think she got into this without proper cloththing underneath or she has a crappy day
she just looks like shes chilling to me tbh
Tired. She looks very tired.
That's because her 21st Century sweater would detract from the period outfits so she's not wearing it despite the chilly weather.
Tablet weaving is using cards with 4 holes from left to right marked A B on top then D C on bottom.
You can find lovely parterns online
One side is called Z and the other is
S. don't know why. I only had my first
Intruduction to this type of weave this morning.
S and Z refer to the direction the thread slants in the woven fabric. Top left to bottom right or bottom left to top right.
z and s also refer to what it looks like when threaded through the card be if from the back or front of the card making a z shape or s shape!
awesome weaving method & her clothes r not only decent but also looks very comfy as well .......... fighting weather atrocities
I am just learning this. I love it. 👍
Thanks Lilly Fraser. I am glad to hear that there are enthusiastic people like you practicing this beautiful traditional weaving technique. All the best with it!
Mark Szabo Thank you. 😊
the difference between the past and now:
then things were made to fit and made perfectly/extremely detailed so that they would last generations
now things are made cheaply and without care
Wow. This looks amazing 😍
they may have had songs to help them remember the orders.
Oh, tablet weaving!:) We have the same in Russia, and the patterns are very similar:)
Reminds me of weaving those friendship bracelets as a child, but larger scale. 100x larger.
entirely different technique, "friendship bracelets" are a form of macrame (which is knotting, not weaving)
@@yippeeflowers thanks for informing me. I suppose weaving doesn't produce knots and that's why you can unravel fabrics?
@@PrettyH8Mach1n3 Basically. A frienship bracelet is technically a stitch from tatting, otherwise known as the Josephine's knot. Weaving has no knots, other than the ones necessary for lengthening/holding thread. A knot in the middle of a weaving (unless it is tapestry weaving) is seen as a flaw. :)
One word " Amazing"
Bringing back some old weaving is great for the tradition will be lost if not.
Flax weaving archeological evidence was found in Northern Africa-Egypt
dating back to 6,000-5,000 BC (Neolithic Age). The Bible speaks of weaving
in many places: Prov. 31:18; Exo. 28:39; Exo. 35:25; Isaiah 19:9; 2 Kings 23:7;
Job 7:6; Judges 16:13; Isaiah 38:23. Silk weavers developed in China about
3,000 BC. Around 800-700 AD vertical looms were found in Asia, Africa and
Europe. Card-weaving (tablet weaving) goes back to the 8th century BC during
Iron Age Europe. There is so much history to the development of weaving.
Interesting fact to know. Possibly they have learnt some of weaving these techniques along the trading routes.
TH-cam algorythm doing it again...
this is a really valuable skill
Legend says she still weaving
عمل جميل و متقن 👍 هي في لباسها و تسريحة شعرها تبدو كأنها من الزمن القديم ، و في كل منطقة من العالم يوجد امثال هذه الفتاة يجب ان يحافظوا على الفن القديم مثل هذا 👍👍 فعلا شيئ جميل و رااائع
I would like to know the name of the design she is currently weaving also
The technique she's using is named BIRKA but I don't know the name of this motif.Once you understand the system of notation you can create your own motifs. There's a free software named GTT that allows you to weave existing motifs or create your own. @1:17 she's showing a printout from this app, with the weaving diagram in grey, the threading of the tablets at bottom of the grey diagram, and the resulting band in color.
A search for "tablet BIRKA woven belt" will help.
@@Khamomil Omg, there's an app?! I just used graph paper
@@valeriy8502 I've tried using an app but you lose as much time learning how to use it as you would save once you knew it perfectly and frankly, when you decide to weave, what you're looking for is a contact with the materials, including pen and paper, and color pencils. But what an app does is make you stare at a computer screen and waste a lot of time. Plus it removes an important aspect which is that of THINKING and UNDERSTANDING the process because when you are told "turn 10 forward, 2 back" etc. you're just following orders instead of acting like a thinking person, with all the frustrations that go with tablet weaving before you "get it".
@@Khamomil Oh with my computer skills I don't think it would be worth while at all... I was just kind of amazed. It might be helpful for learning how to compute the patterns in one's head
No diagrams ... but can't the pattern on a belt be used as reference when making another belt?
I love weaving. :)
It's amazing becaus......... 😄😄😅 Yes IT IS amazing!!!! Simple technic, easy to learn basics, beautiful art work and you can improve your skills from simple work pieces for use to complicatet pattern for custom design products!!!! Amazing 👍😄
😊 "ceinture flechee"
part of traditional metis & french canadian garments.
W😲W
A REALLY Beautiful LOST ART
....from SIMPLER Time & Place !!!!
This HUMBLE Pretty young lady knows the SECRET to BOTH ....
HOW to KEEP WARM & this AWESOME Weaving Technique !!!
The other girl should take notes.
👍😏👍
P.S.
She does a GREAT JOB...ADVERTISING Celtic Viking fashion & style.
People remember how to weave intricate carpets! They start at the age of 5 and this is all they do. That's why generation after generation is able to remember these patters.
My Norwegian ancestors had woven belts, sashes, cuffs that way.
Fantastico 🌺🕉le mani valgono più dell oro
is there more to this? does anyone know the name of the pattern she's working on?
i dont how what its called, but im attempting to copy it. both outermost cards have two brown threads diagonal from eachother and the same with the white and blue thread, so im assuming all the cards are like that. iv attempted to copy the pattern from her pattern and how the band looks to be coloured, linked imgur.com/a/fGgbU
it will be maybe a month, maybe two until i actually attempt this, but if i succeed i will note the turning order and any diference in card thread colours and come back here to comment it
good luck if you try it before me
@@Suiseiseki00Rozen the pattern is on the video
Can I ask the name or a contact with that girl?
Because I want understand how she can do it
Very cool.
Achei interessante ,mas poderia ter uma tradução, e o passo a passo e o tipo de linha usado e essas madeiras onde pode ser comprado e onde achar esses desenhos
Is the girl in the background alright?
If I had to guess I would say the girl in the background is having some bad period pains since she was hunched over holding her abdomen like that, you still gotta show up for work and it sucks :(
i think it was just a bit chilly and miserable that day by the look of it.
That was exactly my first reaction to her facial and body language as well.
And it being chill and damp only exacerbates the issue.
The people of antiquity were really badass.
es muy bello ese trabajo. .solo que veo a la otra chica muy afligida...entumida no se ....pero es bellisimo el trabajo...BENDICIONES y espero ambas esten bien.
Very nice
I love her accent
I WANT TO LEARN THIS STYLE OF WEAVING!!! WHERE CAN I FIND A LINK?? 🤩🤩🤩🤩
This gal explains it really well, and it's the same thing shown here, just on a hem. :)
th-cam.com/video/uWz-wD7Ql8g/w-d-xo.html
@@warriormaiden9829 thank you!
ordet Jernaldergården kommer från danska, eller hur?
Iron age goddesses.
But not modern goddesses?
We all have different ways of weaving. Try searching Arunachal Pradesh Tribal Women weaving cloth style.
If you understand the process well and sit there for like an hour thinking it out, you could surely just make the tablets and sequence again from examining the ribbon than you're trying to replicate, wouldn't have to necessarily remember it
Looks complex.Im now going to search YT for a weaving explained CGI video.
Wow hello fron México
Her fingers and thumbs look like they belong to another person, not a fair skin red head, its quite fascinating. Her nails are lovely
That accent is spreading into everything thing i read and write!
Girl in the background looks a bit tired of weaving.
The belt IS the pattern. They didn't need to put it on paper to interprets it.
Those cuffs are sweet
Wow!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Cool
Girl in the back is method acting a potato famine.
Little gal in background freeing!
She speaks perfect British English, wow.
She studied in London.
The girl at the right... is that cellphone separation anxiety or boredom of iron age?
I assume cold
It seems they were about to leave because it is beginning to rain, when Mark asked the friend to show her old technics. So she is waiting in the cold, to when finally this is over. She is a little annoyed but still tries to laugh at the camera sometimes. A very loyal friend and very respectful towards visitors.
Real woman of the world...
Thats amazeballs....
They didn't have paper but they can draw on other things including stones and animal hide lol
Lol can't they just look at the pattern from the first round?
Flirting iron age style
Theres a Amish lady does this on her channel
👏👏👏🥰🥰🥰
After 6 years, youtube recommendation...
Precious girls..
😮😮😮😀😙
Lady does not a Norwegian Accent.
there's a bit there. she was probably taught by a good teacher from England.
They were very clever people and didn't need instructions because they didn't waste their life on watching the garbage on tv and facebook
Cute
Việt nam đang xem ❤❤
Ope I found my true home-land.
What's with the stoned chick in the background?
The girl in the back looks like she doesn't want to be there lol
they couldn't figure out how to make paper and pencils in the iron age to sketch a pattern? lol doesn't add up
На заднем фоне баба с бодуна страдает, а вы тут пояски плетёте. 🤣
Cıdden bunlar Türk😂😂😂
Turkey did not exist at this in the viking age😂😂😂😂
There memories were better in the iron age because most people didn't write things down!
with no distractions, they were able to focus much much better than us
Also I would not be surprised if they had some kind of rhyme or little song for each pattern - that way even a longer sequence can be remembered much easier.
And if you do these patterns every day (instead of just sometimes, when you want to have some fun) that also gets into muscle memory. I assume the "younger girls" would be much slower, but advised by older women to get them used to the right patterns.
you dont know that they dont have a pattern to read off they could have had paper
We have a pretty good idea actually! The tools to make modern paper are fairly distinctive. You need fine wood pulp so a grinder of some sort. You need a basin for water to float the pulp in, and you need a fine mesh or cloth in a frame to capture the pulp. Archaeologists would know by now to a fair certainty.
@@828burke Could they not have recorded a pattern some other way than on paper though? Carving a code into a stick to help remember for example?
Paper wouldnt survive the Iron Age til now it would desinagrate and yet they claim to know if it wasn’t written down
Why is the girl on the back is sad?
I think she was just a bit bored. She smiled. She's got a small basket of pinecones diped into wax that they used as a fire starter or canadle.
To me she looks a bit cold.
Me when I see pretty girls in tunics: please show me how to do this
Who does your nails?? Lmao!!
Why is she doing that and wearing old clothes🤔 is it her job? Like tourist thing
She was a student either volunteering for the museum or working as summer job. (I don’t exactly remember). She and her friends were very friendly, knowledgeable and enthusiastic introducing these tools and showing the museum to the visitors.
@@MarkSzaboUK working as a summer job??? I just discovered by new dream job, haha (plus the shoes of the girl behind her look so comfy and soft. I'd love to be able to wear them without being thinking I'm a weirdo, haha.) Amazing video thank you 💚
@@Vexarax I can imagine:) They were wearing really comfy shoes and dresses. Give it a go! There are many places like this in Scandinavia and in other countries too.
Brief 7 6 5 6 7 6 7
Jesus loves you obey the Lord, you can be saved Jesus loves you. We need Jesus we sinned Jesus died for us in the cross
Brief 6 5 6 7 6 7 8 7
Haha.....the girl in the back looks so bored and uninterested...haha
The blond girl is depressed for being in the iron age.
"viking age or iron age" yea never mind there is a 1000 to 1500 year time gap between them. ignorance about history is a bliss.
It's all history in the end..
The craft survived down the ages, idiot.
@@Vingul IDOIT