Unironically his ethics are trash. He makes dunkviews and treats them as legitimate reviews but then lies in those videos and misrepresents the games and when confronted he acts like it’s just all a joke. He’s not a game critic, he’s a comedian. Nothing more, and frankly speaking he doesn’t have the integrity to ever be a legitimate critic.
you're welcome to reach out anytime! i feel like your questions here come from a lack of familiarity (understandable), and for anyone wondering- jason won't make dunkviews for any games we publish, it'll always be transparent what games bigmode is publishing
That's silly as hell! Leah and Dunk, don't listen to the haters!!! How the hell is it immoral to showcase those games? I think it would be a disservice to deprive us of witnessing Dunkey play the games!! He makes any game seem more fun than anyone I know!!! I mean for real, I dont think it would be unethical to showcase those games!! Anybody who says otherwise is a HATER!! That is batshit cray cray bro play your company's games!! Please for real
Now that Im thinking of it, I think it would just be plain stupid for Dunkey to not record himself playing or even reviewing the games!! That should be a perk of getting your game published by BigMode!
@@JB2FROSTY dont worry!! he can definitely showcase bigmode games, they just wouldn't be part of his dunkview series. some were wondering about the ethics of reviewing a game you're publishing, so just letting people know that isn't a concern!
As an indie game developer who just released my first game, youtubers 100% had the biggest impact on sales. Above press, ads, events, twitter, reddit, twitch and everything else. I would have loved to have that kind of noise for my game.
I think that's looking at this from a marketing perspective and I think Danny's point seems to be that publishers are responsible for a lot more than just marketing? It might have made more sense if dunkey referred to it as a spotlight type program where he simply puts his vote behind good games and maybe catches a percentage of sales or something? But publishing is probably a bit bigger than most of us think and perhaps we're all collectively underestimating the work that goes into publishing
Publishers can do a variety of things for a game. Sometimes it's developer help/funding, other times it can just be marketing. Bigmode (according to their website) offers pretty much all of these depending on the game
@NoclipCrew It's called Kainga: Seeds of Civilization, it's a roguelite + village-builder! If you want to do a video on what it's like as a solo dev making it in this industry let me know ;)
I think a huge element of this is his transparency. If he said, “Hey guys I just found this cool game that you should buy,” and didn’t mention he had a hand in it, that would be a problem. But as long as he says, “I helped make this game and that’s why I’m telling you about it,” then I see absolutely no reason to have a problem with it.
I'm glad you chose to share your thoughts on this. I feel very conflicted on the whole thing- On the one hand, putting myself in dunkey's position, it seems like a no-brainer to use your platform and your resources to help make games that you want to see get made. If I were optimistic I would say that maybe this will help him to offer critique that comes from a less naive place in the future. I can't shake the feeling though that unless he were to drop games criticism entirely, there's always going to be a conflict of interest too big to ignore. What concerns me most is his refusal to acknowledge that, or any of the other criticisms bigmode has gotten so far.
I feel like that conflict of interest is not as big as people make it out to be. First he really only covers major AAA releases, which are not exactly competition for the games he is trying to release. As far as indie games go he has only reviewed 6 (stray, Neon white, Celeste, Enter the Gungeon, Yooka Laylee, and No Mans Sky) and of those he only gave poor ratings to yooka laylee and No Mans Sky. All of those games were also massively popular so even if he stopped reviewing indie games altogether it would be a very small hit to his output. The rest of his videos are just him playing the games
Noodle can you literally do the same thing as him. People like you and Dunkley name the things in games that are fun that studios seem to miss. Who better to make and push fun games then people who get it. Anyway stop feeling conflicted and start noodle studios asap
Indie dev here with one of those games that fell through the cracks. TH-cam Watcher Hat: I think the "entertainer" vs "critic" conversation comes down to a question of credibility. If the games are bad, but Dunkey says they're good, he'll lose credibility. And if he loses credibility, then his recommendations hold less weight. In general I don't think of it as too problematic, but I also don't think of Dunkey as an "Objective Journalist", he's a youtuber with a highly subjective opinion, which I may or may not agree with on a game-by-game basis. I find it interesting to compare this to a "standard" TH-camr advertising agreement: If Animal Well paid Dunkey to advertise their game (like paying for 60 second pre-video ad), it would have cost some amount of money: X. As the publisher, Dunkey is likely going to make some % of the sales of the game: Y. Lets assume that through magic, X and Y are the same. In both situations, Dunkey's "objective assessment" of the game is in question, though if I'm honest about it, I feel like the ad version is "more sketchy" or "less credible". I guess this is what makes the situation all the more dubious... Indie Dev Hat: From my perspective (as someone who doesn't really enjoy or engage with social media), the role of a publisher is to get the game in front of as many people as possible. Sending the game out to TH-cam/Twitch streamers seems like the way to get it in front of people, but it suuuuuucks. For my game I sent out over 1600 keys through a mix of direct emails and things like Keymailer. Of those, almost all the streams & videos were in the 5-30 viewer range. Even a single video or shoutout from Dunkey would be tens of thousands of times the exposure than the game has had in its entire lifespan. Sure, it'd be nice if that happened organically or "for free", but if he came to me and said "I get 95% of the sales after the video goes live" (an intentionally ludicrous number), I can guarantee I'd make more money than I currently am from the game.
Yeah I think people tend to underestimate that last part, even after a game like Vampire Survivors came out of nowhere and took over the world and made millions, thanks at the start to a few streamers. Most "gamers" will say they saw articles about it in the press, but the press is *always* following and amplifying success, not creating it. Same thing happened with Trombone Champ on a lesser level. Picked up by streamers, then PC gamer made a tweet that made it into the gamer mainstream.
@@Fachewachewa I'd be interested in seeing some evidence/numbers involved in what a game gets from 'articles from news/conglomerate' channels like IGN and PC Gamer vs what a game gets from big streamers/youtubers doing a video of the game. I'm sure it's almost impossible to quantify, but from my own anecdotal experience and intuition (and I could be very wrong), I'd gamble that making a round or three around the youtube/twitch space would be BY FAR bigger for game sales than just articles
@@lordcrispen Yeah, unless a dev shares their wishlist/sales data and can link its evolution to different articles or videos, the best option is to check the follow history on steamdb. But obviously even for devs sometimes it's hard to know why people suddenly get interested (like when a very niche youtuber covers a game). But I think it's more youtubers and streamers simply because the press tends to cover only the big games everyone already knows. But they can still have an impact, like that PC Gamer Trombone Champ tweet which you can definitely see on the follower chart for Sept 21 on steamDB
Well i think it falls under the umbrella of say game reviewers who are sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends. Its obviously some mobile cash farm junk, but as long as they dont actually review the bad game it should be fine. I think if he just doesnt review the games and replies to criticism directly as a publisher would, hell be alright.
You mentioned having a graveyard in your mind for all the small indie titles who never found their audience. Could you see yourself doing a series highlighting these games? I'd love to see them! Edit: Also, as for what I think - reach out to dunkey? If he's really in it for the right reasons he might give a good interview. But yes, personally, I agree with your doubts!
I was conflicted on this at first impressions as well, but then I thought about what I would do if I suddenly had a bunch of money. If I won the lottery, some rich relative wrote me in their will, whatever... I would also probably fund a ton of games I thought were cool and give full creative control to the developers. If that is what Dunkey is doing then by all means, I say go for it.
tl;dr, as someone who have been a professional gamedev for 6 years, I fully understand and feel similar about this. It's the same feeling I had when the IGN/Humble thing happened. Which I just recently check is not being handled ethically at all. Long Version: People in the business of talking about games, getting into a business where a game doing financially well is in their personal interest, should always initially illicit a skeptical reaction. Ultimately, I think just like the case of sponsored content (like streamers getting paid to play a game), these publications/individuals need to continually be 100% transparent and upfront about financial involvement in these situations. As long as people hold them accountable whenever a transgression occurs, it should be mostly fine. I think the extra layer of why people (myself included) have been very cautious of Bigmode is because in the publication/publisher situation, the actual employees of the publication are not the ones that are invested. Therefore they shouldn't be influenced/pressured into changing their reviews and articles (ESPECIALLY after the Gerstmann thing). Whereas Dunky is both the critic AND the publisher. So they cannot be trusted to talk about the game in a critical way (even though their largely younger audience, would see them as an authority). The most ethical way Dunky could talk about Animal Well is to upload a trailer and go "Hey, I do believe in this game and think it's good. That is why I was comfortable publishing it, meaning I have a financial interest in this game selling well.". And that's it A game critic can go "hey, the company I work for has a financial interest in this game, keep that in mind while I give my opinion about it", and because of that degree of separation, we can at least hear them out (with a grain of salt). If Dunky was to upload a video of the game and go "I have money riding on this, here are my thoughts about it", that is wack. Also just to check, I went and looked at IGN articles on Humble Games published titles. NONE the articles for Signalis have disclaimers, so FUCK ME I GUESS?
Imo, it’s fine if Dunkey makes a video promoting a game that his company is publishing, it is in no way that much different from the marketing push other publishers do. The only thing to talk here would be the fact that Dunkey couldn’t possibly make another video about other games anymore, because that video will be controversial no matter what. If he’s turning his channel, his entire TH-cam career, into an ad channel to promote the games his company is publishing, that’s fine. But, yeah, too bad he wouldn’t be able to talk about games the way he does in the past anymore.
@@NeroVingian40 or he can continue talking about other games, but not his games at all. He could keep his channel as always, but avoid any review of the games published by him. The only type of videos he could upload about his games would be promotional ones.
@@MzaM that won’t work as well. For example, if he were publishing game X, and he suddenly makes a video about game Y, people would still probably arrive to the conclusion that he was just talking about game Y because it’s similar to game X, be it a similar genre, or similar mechanics, similar art style, or even just simply similar color palette, and how he is talking about how game Y is just to promote game Y, and to lead people to searching for a similar game to game Y one they’ve finished game Y, which would be game X, the game his company published (game X actually might not even be remotely similar to game Y in the first place, but this is the internet and people would think of anything here, that’s just how the internet works). And this is not even mentioning if he was actually criticizing on other games in a bad way to simply make his published games look better. In short, these are just a few of the various ethical issues that shows up when you’re a critic and also a publisher, you just can’t be both, because trying to be both is just too controversial. It’s the same saying that “tech reviewers can’t make their own smartphone”, because any future content from their channel afterwards will be compared to their own product and highly potentially be scrutinized by the audience, no matter what is actually happening. For Dunkey, the only way for his channel to stay relevant is if he just turned his channel into a marketing tool for his own published games, just talking about his own games and never to talk about other games anymore. (And since this is the internet, even that would be rubbing some people off in a wrong way, seeing as how a channel that was previously built on funny videos on all types of games to suddenly be turned into a marketing tool for the owner’s own company). Tbh, what Dunkey is doing is just crazy, if I were him, I wouldn’t be doing it because it’s just not worth the controversy and money investment. That’s sad, I know, but that’s just how a TH-cam critic’s life is.
Damn I hadn't considered IGN as a game publisher with Humble, that's a bit mindblowing and obviously an issue. Was wondering how Signalis blew up out of nowhere 😏
@@NoclipCrew well interested people are interesting. As you said people get focused on the sort of soap opera caricature of the industry, so for someone experienced like you whose project is to document how the sausage gets made, having an outlet for ruminating on new grey areas of sausagemaking is valuable. In a way people watch your content because you’re good at communicating what you’re fascinated by, and this is a good outlet for less conclusive/in-process thoughts contributing to a better picture of this industry that’s super weird and moves fast
I think Dunkeys just looking to enter a similar space as devolver digital, publishing small unique indie games and using his unique style as the marking push for the game. The make or break is going to be if he does more than just videos on his channel to promote it
I dunno, I’m a bit disappointed this is even a video from noclip, I think noclio was better at least interviewing Dunkey, letting him explain the direction and not having this speculative video on ‘ethics’.
@@seankelly6711 We do documentaries on our main channel, this side channel is for our own opinions and let's plays. He's a public figure and I'm not accusing him of anything in particular so I don't feel there's a requirement to get a quote. I mean, what would I ask "are you selling out mate?".
When I first heard of the news, the first thing that was going through my mind is “that’s it, this guy can’t make content anymore on TH-cam, that’s the end of his TH-cam career”, mainly because his future content would then have bias towards the games his company is publishing. After some time have passed and I’ve given it more thinking through, I came to the more or less the same conclusion that what this video is about. TH-camrs have these big audience, and if they’re trying to market their game using the Dunkey TH-cam channel, that’s gonna be a great marketing push. The make or break for me, is if Dunkey will still make a video about another game (any game that wasn’t published by their company), because that will always gonna be controversial, whether the intentions was just for fun (like how his videos usually is in the past), or actually downplaying other games to make the games their company are publishing looks better. In short, yeah, Dunkey isn’t just betting his money into this, he’s betting his channel as well (basically, his whole TH-cam career), his channel is gonna go through a whole lot of change from now on.
@@NeroVingian40 now that you say this I wish he'd make a second channel just for the games he's publishing. Keep the main channel free from Bigmode games. I feel like if he did do that we wouldn't lose that many other game videos from him.
@@Ramonatho even a second channel would still be associated to his main one though. I mean, if he does a second channel anonymously, yeah, that will work, if the second channel has his name on it (or has any relations to him whatsoever), he still can’t be doing videos other than his own published games.
I think Dunkey comes from a genuine love for the medium and wanted to "do something" about the state of gaming. He's been immersed in it for so long, when it's your world it's hard not to become cynical when you see some companies make more effort to innovate in monetization than in gameplay. One day he played through something like that one too many times and decided to promote games that care about being games. At least that's my read of the situation, that might be totally wrong. I'd be curious to hear a more in depth discussion from him.
I believe that that's where this all started from but to be honest I have a hard time trusting anyone making YT videos for a living to navigate the extremely murky waters of when that's ethical to do and how is he going to affect people by uploading/promoting. If he's going to bill himself as serious in his Dunkviews then we have an issue, and right now he does do that for plenty of his content.
Obviously this. All these "concerned" people clearly haven't followed Dunkey very closely, which is fine, but more importantly they've failed to bring up a way in which Bigmode could do any damage to anything. This is a complete non-topic, none of the uncertainties brought up in the video seemed very uncertain to me at all, and it's baffling to see so many people drowning in the zero mililiters of water this "dilemma" holds. Seriously, what's the danger here exactly? He's gonna go rogue and try to sell you a bad game? Which you somehow fall for despite all your skepticism, so you're out 20 bucks and never trust him again? Oh no! It's pretty dumb IMO.
@@gnomefuel We can definitely go for a more charitable explanation than that, and I do like a lot of noclip's content. But whatever the case, it does seem to me like a distortion stemming from a unique point of view. The guy wears his bias on his sleeve after all; he straight up dislikes any criticism of games coming from outside the industry. He can have his opinion, and because he was nice enough to put it out in the open like that, I can safely discard it.
You mentioned around 12:25 that you have a "graveyard" in your mind of good indie games that never found an audience. I'm curious about what these games are - sounds like an interesting topic for a video!
The word Danny was looking for at 8:10 is Publishing, not Developing. To my knowledge, Alex Austin of Cryptic Sea is the sole developer of Stunt Derby. Which would put NoClip in the exact same situation as Dunkey. All (perfectly valid) criticisms Danny has pointed out could be pointed right back at NoClip. How Should I Feel about NoClip Publishing Games? 🤔
Well it's been a year and Animal Well is out and it's a freaking amazing game. Like really really really REALLY good. Atmospheric and moody and chill and scary and so many things. It's clearly a labor of love and an ode to video game secrets. The tons and tons of positive reviews are what is making it a success. Dunkey's role in it was a small part, but if he convinced anyone to look into it and want to play it that was a good thing. I've made and published loads of games and I can say that Dunkey picked a winner. I think what he did was he played it or watched it and he made a smart business decision to highlight a title that needed more eyes on it. This was a win-win. It made his Big Mode brand look incredible and I now know I can trust ANY game with a Big Mode brand on it at least in the coming years similar to how I can almost always trust the Devolver Digital brand. And that's all a brand is. It's a thing you either trust or don't. It's an opinion thing, but it can be informed based on experiences had. I like Dunkey's videos and his critical tastes. I love animal well and I can say that more people who really truly critique games should work to spotlight amazing titles like this. I also can say that I did not buy animal well based on Dunkey's promotions of it. What convinced me to buy it was reading a review of it on Polygon. I was like "oh dang I should check this thing out, I love puzzles." And yeah it was a great time!
I feel like Dunkey's lack of comment has been largely the best thing for him to do. Saying the wrong thing could tank the project, even if it isn't meant how people take it. Actions speak louder than words and with that we just sorta have to keep waiting to see how it plays out
Just "finished" Animal Well. Yeah, that was a very smart move ✨ The quality of the game itself absorbs all these "naive" questions about ethics. It's a masterpiece and internet knows it.
I'm personally just excited there will be even more opportunities for solid indie games to get made and played. Dunkey seems to get that. I feel Dunkey is more of an entertainer that will once in a while suprise you with something poignant. Kind of like a good stand up with a message and a perspective. I feel like the age of the "objective" critic is long dead. People have context and relationships with things. I think most people understand that.
That's kind of the problem I've had with Dunkey's content that Danny touched on too. Is he an entertainer? Is he a critic? Is he a marketer? Those lines are so blurry now and to me, even if he still purports to give honest, genuine opinions when he does reviews, that overlap compromises his opinions in my eyes. Animal Well seems cool and I'll be interested to see the response when it comes out, but not from him or anyone close to him, and I don't think I could take his opinion on similar games in the future.
@@Mars0War Dunkey’s pretty transparent about when he’s reviewing a game and when he’s simply making a video for entertainment. If the title of the video says “dunkview” then it’s a real review. Otherwise it’s purely for entertainment.
As a developer, I feel I'm constantly hearing people from media (youtubers, journalists,...) talking about any aspect of the game industry with absolute confidence and an obvious "I could do better" attitude when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about. I honestly think your humble approach and sincere will to learn is truly making you wiser than most. Congratulations on that personal growth and keep on having that wholesome attitude. About the topic of the publisher, I still firmly believe that no youtuber can make a game successful, no matter how big their platform is. People often say this or that game became very popular after someone played it. In my experience, those games always had a huge potential and appeal and that's why a big youtuber played them. I see the snowball that comes after that as a consequence of the game's appeal and not as the reason for its success. I believe those games were going to succeed in one way or another. So if their first game works well, I really think it'd be because Animal Well is a great product with a potential big audience (it certainly looks fantastic, on my wishlist since the first time it was shown months ago) and not because the publisher had an unfair advantage as a youtuber. No matter how big those youtubers are, their reach is nowhere near what a big publisher has and yet they can't assure all their games are successful. Something nobody says is that some of those huge accounts play and show games that then sell nothing. They don't talk about it because believing that showing your game will have a huge impact is what their business is about. So many indies spend what for them is a fortune for some minutes of attention and they get nothing out of it.
I'd say both yes and no. Noel Berry (one of the Celeste devs) credits dunkey directly with a lot of the initial success of the game. He was there before it was released and actually talked with them directly asking how he could support it. With publishers, yeah their reach may be huge simply due to the fact that reach costs a lot. But you have to consider as well the *quality* of that reach. People following a TH-camr have a way more personal connection (vive la parasocial relationship), and any recommendation / support coming from them is going to carry infinitely more weight than an ad put out by a publisher (of course there are certain publishers who they themselves have a fanbase, Devolver for example). I think it's hard to say, and definitely depends on what is included in the "publishing". If it's monetary support and quality reach, then that might be enough for some. However for those who need support with localization, porting to different platforms, etc. That won't do a whole lot. From the BigMode website, I think it's pretty clear that BigMode exists to provide quality reach and some later stage funding to projects that otherwise might have been lost. Like yourself I had wish listed Animal Well when I saw it first announced, but we'd be in a pretty solid niche of people who actually pay attention to new indie titles. I'm the only dev at my studio who really does anything indie related.
This doesn't make sense. People keep saying "conflict of interest" without explaining at all what the conflict is. Including you. As long as there's an immediate disclaimer that he published the game, and published it because he likes it, what is the conflict? At that point an audience should know that it's in part an advertisement and in part a recommendation from a critic they like, because the critic had a part in distributing the game. It doesn't invalidate the critics opinion on other games.
More power to you. Back in the early 2000s my friend and I tried devlopving a game we thought would bs creepy where you roam an endless landscape that is covered in fog. The fog sometimes was super dense, other times not very dense. You would find random items, weapons...etc. There would be enemies that would track you down and try to kill you. It was basically a a survival game. There were of course fantasy elements like zombies, magic filled beings...etc. But we didn't get very far. Just working with the unreal engine was so hard that we gave up on it. I have nothing but respect for those who makes games, especially small titles/indie games.
Thanks for making this point in a more nuanced way, rather than just being vehemently against Big Mode or all for it. The problem with the internet is that you're expected to be on a specific "side". I think when I heard about Dunkey's publishing company he talked about it in a really excited way that seemed like it was driven by a dream rather than experience. I hope he goes through the right channels and works with the developer to make Animal Well a success, but I definitely have some skepticism. I feel like we haven't seen anything internally to reveal why Big Mode will be a strong company. You can't just say "I'm a good youtuber, therefore this will be epiccc!!!!" The critique and content he makes aside, his point was that he plays lots of games, so he should now publish them. A TH-cam channel and personality isn't what makes a game successful. If that was the case then every shit horror game Markiplier plays would be a smash hit. Then again, I do really hope for them to benefit Animal Well as I've been impressed with the game as well.
Would be really interesting to see you make a documentary about Big Mode, using it to show what goes on in modern publishing companies and how they function behind the scenes, as you said there isn't a lot of clarity on the role that publishers have in the industry.
Oddly enough we’ve never done a doc on publishing because we couldn’t find an angle that wouldn’t just be an endorsement. We do have some stuff in the works that shines more of a light on it though.
@@NoclipCrew There's massive amounts of critisism against big publishing company's these past years but you can't find anything that doesn't sound like an endorsement? Really?? Are you joking or just afraid that publishers will restrict your access for interviews. Man talk about poor ethics.
@@NoclipCrew Isn't it already quite difficult to make documentaries about games/developers that aren't somewhat endorsing in nature? (Unless of course the subject of the doc is a "bad game" that you're interested in analysing as to why it "failed") I suppose one way to get around this is not to focus on one particular publisher but interview an array of prominent individuals who work/have worked with various companies, although I wouldn't even know enough about the industry to know who you would start with. Ye'd know better than me anyways but it's something to consider, keep up the good work 👍
@@ReVision.. them interviewing developers removes a layer of gloss on their content. Going into a publisher - which focuses on projection and management, not development - is a different focus that NoClip has not done so far. Going to Devolver and making a video on their content choices is different than examining the creative process of creating a piece of work. Would you interview a person buying a piece of art or would you interview the artist? What's more important to the innate subject?
@@james-andrew-adams In your analogy, the publishing company wouldn't be the person buying the art but the person who owns the art gallery that makes it possible for artists to display their art. And yes i would love to see a documentary about that aspect of the industry. But you missed the point of my previous comment entirely.
I think he's in a decent position to help with marketing and maybe connecting people for final work, like "we used some stock sound effects but I'd really like to have someone else help out with doing original ones". Obviously it has to be clear what Bigmode actually does, both for devs and for the audience. I feel like if he's up to no good somehow it'll blow up in his face quickly enough, and I'm pretty sure he knows that too.
I'm with you on a lot of this. There's a ton of people who yell about games and really have no idea what it takes to make one and that gets tiresome. I also enjoy Dunkey especially when he gets more analytical about games. I don't think that means he knows what it takes to make one but I think he's got good intentions going into Big Mode. It does put the whole critique side of his channel in a weird place now that he's got skin in the game. I wonder if he backs off of that going forward, might be the best move. Would be cool if you were able to interview him, would make for a good conversation.
With all the weird vitriol from a variety of sources when Big Mode was announced, my biggest question was if anyone spoke to Dunkey, or asked about his position or experience.
What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that NoClip could easily have asked for an interview and taken the lead on the platform to find out what their idea for the business really is. Instead of mindless speculation, propper journalism would have been a much better way to look at an odd case like this. I respect Dunkey as a creator and love the fact he wants to help unique projects find their audience, so I'm happy with Big Mode as a concept, although I will make sure to check the games he publishes out, like I always do, before I make a purchase. Animal Well looks amazing so far. Wishlisted.
@@ProtoGhostal1701 I know, but I meant they could have covered this topic in their main channel, and that way we could all be clarified on the matter to avoid needless sensacionalism and negativity. I only wish the best for Dunkey, Leah and whoever ends up being published by them. I just hope this becomes a good avenue for us who love games to find hidden gems, like Devolver Digital has been doing for a while now.
I think when you take all of Dunkeys "dunking games " content into context, he has proven himself as a legitimate critic who holds large AAA games (ones that don't need boosts of popularity) accountable for shit they put out while also highlighting games that do need more eyes. While he may be walking a line, I trust his judgment. I also am betting he will be focusing more on almost complete games for marketing / audience finding as opposed to getting in the weeds with the actual development
this is a very interesting take to me, because i've essentially entirely thrown out dunkey as valid criticism for my own decision making the editing tricks and intentionally poor gameplay he shows when talking about stuff he dislikes, plus the insanely frustrating habit of layering actual takes in with jokes (so your fans can dismiss criticism against your video with "you just didn't get the joke") alongside stuff like his (self admitted, so no worries) refusal to be patient with a game, makes it really hard for me to take him remotely seriously as a 'critic'
@Qbopper I do think a fair bit of his specifically harsh videos are on games he loves, like no one makes red dead 2 look jankier or more broken than dunkey, but he's brought up multiple times in unrelated videos how highly he Regards that game in the areas that it excelled at. It's definitely tough to treat him as a serious critic but some of the impressions I get from some of his jokes / bits / critiques of games tend to give me a good impression on if it's the type of game I'd enjoy / if it's flaws feel like something goofy I can overlook or something that seriously hinders my enjoyment. That's not even based really on what he says about games because some of his videos showing really broken gameplay still give me the impression he enjoyed the game. Its more so comparing how I felt about games or the janky bs I remember from them to his videos on the games. His videos are almost always exaggerated but usually give off the real impression about he feels about the game which more times than not line up with mine. I can't exactly recommend him to people, it's not even so much that people "don't get" his jokes, more so just that he isn't really actually making reviews, he's making funny videos about the games, but the stuff he includes in the videos usually demonstrates that he has put in the hours into the game and has a depth of knowledge about it, which sometimes is enough to act almost as a pseudo-review and other times is just pure comedy . I probably prefer Skill Up as a more traditional critic.
@@Plain--Jane Yes this Is all true but all of these decisions are also In service of entertainment. With the byproduct that you can also say it's all for jokes etc. Things like using bad footage of a game when talking about negative criticism is just good video editing. Trying to set a tone for the video is necessary to help a viewer follow along and keep them engaged. Not using literal video editing like that would just make his videos much less "immersive" and uninteresting if the visuals didn't follow along with what he's talking about. Video editing Is also hard work too and sometimes you just don't have the right piece of footage to exactly show or describe what you're talking about and with a tight schedule you just have to make do, which could also lead to some of the issues you talked about. I do agree tho, sometimes he takes it a bit too far especially when taking about bugs.
I haven't delved much into this topic and the nuances of it, but I feel that people are holding Dunkeys channel to a weird pedestal. He always was some guy that made videos about his opinions on video-games, most in a comedic style. His videos are not a factual display of information that represents an absolute truth about certain video-games. They are only his opinions, and lots of people enjoy to see what his opinions are about video-games topics. The types of games he enjoys, the ones he grew up playing and certain aspects of his personality were always biases towards his reviews. There was always degrees of subjetivity into his videos that skewed his reviews in certain ways, and there is nothing wrong about this. His videos and reviews are only that: His opinion over video-games. I do not think he should stop making his usual videos due to his new publishing company (as some people in the comments seem to sugest is the Ethical conclusion). I Believe it should be another factor to consider when listening to his opinion/reviews. Feels like people are treating his channel as it were a goverment body or a news media, that should be hold up to scrutiny over the type of information that they release. His new company is not a big enterprise that is trying to skew public opinion on climate change, saying that carbon offsets are a legitimate way to solve carbon emissions, for example. Dunkey is content creator that makes videos/reviews about video games (an entertainment product), with explicit subjectivity in display. Its interesting to talk openly about this topic, as I feel it makes it easier to exercise critical thinking, as well as to accentuate that his videos are subjetive opinions, and not objective truths. As such, I don't think its necessary to worry or even boicott Dunkey if he keeps up his usual routine. Well, at least thats my view on it. Agree or disagree, feel free to give your side on this topic. I do believe that talking about it is the most healthy way to aproach this situation.
I am reminded of Yahtzee/Zero Punctuation, did some work on Watch_Dogs 3, still reviewed it in his usual style for The Escapist. Also, working on his own game and making content for the site about it (even jokingly talked about Big Mode publishing it), the 3 Minute Review crew also have some working on the industry (KC for Ubisoft, Amy for another company) while reviewing, streaming and talking about other games and all that jazz. I have no stakes on it other than uh "ethical consumption" but I guess... disclosure? Transparency? Water is muddy so I guess working to make things clearer should be enough I dunno.
I think disclosure can be moot when inividuals like KC or Yahtzee aren't in major creative positions at the company. KC is a community manager for R6 Siege so his role is more procedural than creative and it's not a platform for opinion, while Yahtzee's writing was for a small portion of Watch Dogs Legion whom came to the view that his work wasn't used anyway.
What about being friends with the actual devs ? Skillup and jake from gameranx are friends with yongyea and alanah pearce (one of god of war's writers) idk how I expect them to say something bad about the story
I think your comments about ignorance in the consumer side of the industry is spot-on, there seem to be very few people who know the ins and outs of game development, that don't already work in the industry. Dunkey may be smart, but his critique of games is often rooted in ignorance. And that is a valid perspective, that's a consumer perspective, so it makes sense that his opinions find a large audience. But I don't expect him to be a publisher offering a service on the same level as other experienced publishers do. Hopefully he'll learn, but it'll take time and they're potentially not going to get it right the first time. I do think there's a fundamental problem with Dunkey continuing to dunk on games for profit *and* start a games publishing business with a financial incentive to make their own games look better than other games. It's extremely easy for him to adopt a marketing strategy to simply dunk on other games competing for sales with games he's publishing. It fits his MO and his audience. Imo, the only way for him to ethically start a publishing company is to fundamentally change the kind of content he's making, which sounds like professional suicide to me. So I remain very skeptical. If he was just in the dunking on video games business, I wouldn't mind. It's the combination of that with his new business that irks me. If he changes his channel concept to highlight good games and praise work (instead of pushing down other games) the I'd feel much better about it. But I'm fairly sure that's not what I think is going to happen. EDIT: reading through the comments it seems a lot of people didn't pick up on the potential ethical problem with Big Mode, which is surprising imo. Hopefully the above makes sense to them. Great video Danny, I think you've got a good attitude discussing and thinking about these kind of things 🙂
Okay but what about dunking on the rich to make money for the poor though? If he's already getting money from dunking on games, things don't really change for him. If by doing it he can help other people, maybe being unethical is more ethical than doing nothing 🤷
@@Fachewachewa except when he dunks on games in the same wheelhouse as his published ones, where he's clearly paving a road to make his games more appealing. The worst case example would be him literally saying "here's why this game sucks and why you should buy mine."
@@docrandle Yeah but that's be pretty dumb right? It's not a random video, he has money on the line too, and idk, that just seems more risky than anything else. It's not like people who hide their connection with brands etc. At least it shouldn't be an issue with Animal Well.
@@Fachewachewa Instead of pushing other games down in order to stand out; game developers usually take inspiration from any type of games, AAA or not, and celebrate successes among all of them. I don't see why a publisher whose (other?) business is critiquing other games is better than a publisher that seeks harmony within the industry and consumer market. I don't buy the Robin Hood argument, shitting on someone's creative output is not magically going to make someone else's games better. It's just going to get a lot of frowns of peers in the industry. I genuinely hope Dunkey will do better than that, but we'll have to see.
@@JochemKuijpers I mean, I don't watch Dunkey so I don't know, but apparently the dunks are what people want? (and the few I've seen recently were all positive) He's already doing it, it's not like it's his strategy for pushing the games he publishes. He didn't have to do anything else than mention Animal Well to multiply by 3 its number of followers on Steam, so I don't think strategic dunking to make their games look better would be necessary or even efficient (but you seem to agree with that). I think people should have already frowned a lot at the mention of Crowsworn being just a clone or Frog Detective being spam in his BigMode announcement video, and I don't think dunking on AAA can be worse than that. It's just that more people care about these game, because there's an imbalance. Something he can actually help fix, so 🤷 might not be perfect but it will help some indies.
From their website, they are primarily stating that BigMode is there to help you stand out and only that. I think you are correct that they are mostly there to market for you. Ethically I think that is mostly fine, if he doesn't use his Dunkey persona and channel to boost it. We'll have to truly wait and see how this plays out and what they end really providing to Animal Well
It's about time some "games journalist" somewhere finally fucking said it. I grow so tired of the confident people speaking about games and weaponizing their opinion against game developers, and their audience eats it up. Then, all that bad misinformation gets propagated and because "fact". I've actually tried to correct some "journalists" spreading falsehoods and literally have been told, "so?" and "STFU. I'm done with that story." There are people IN the throws of game development that don't really know jack or shit outside of their sphere, let alone the idea of "I've been playing games and talking about them for a while, so I KNOW!" It's absurd and I'm glad someone has finally acknowledged it. More "journalists" and game critics should spend some time just attempting to make Pong or Space Invaders, from tip-to-tail. Then, they'll understand SO MUCH and stop saying shit that weaponizes their audience against us and creates an antagonistic relationship between gamers and game developers.
I think as long as he doesn’t use his channel to “review” the games he’s publishing (people will see right through that if it’s not spotlessly tasteful), power to them for trying something new.
I'm open to hearing more about what is morally bankrupt about something like this. As someone that isn't in the games industry, any negativity toward dunkey that goes beyond the obvious "Hey kid, this shit is harder than you probably think and you're going to have a lot to learn. Good luck, kiddo!" well, it sounds similar to how people in the comedy industry that have been grinding stand-up for years get jealous when new comics come around and blow up big (like Bo Burnham's success coming mostly from TH-cam instead of the club scene). What is the dubious behavior I'm supposed to be conflicted/mad about? This is a genuine question, not a defensive rant.
@@Keepontakingit the section starting 1:34 talks about the potential conflicts of interest. tl;dw: things get complicated when Dunkey's trusted as a reviewer/entertainer but also has a stake in the success of the games he talks about. Danny's not necessarily saying Dunkey "can't do that", he's saying "this is a complex situation that can go sideways very easily and should be handled with responsible thought and action"
in his Dunkey's Best of 2022 video he spends 2 minutes of the video praising the game that he is himself publishing obviously he's not gonna say anything negative when it directly affects his income and of course i don't believe animal well will be a bad game but right now i'm just meant to trust dunkey that his stated opinions in his videos about his own games will not be motivated first and foremost by making his games sell? when there's an obvious conflict of interest in actually treating the games fairly and making money
@@voidcaaat Fair enough but I don't really get the problem: TH-camrs have been doing sponsored content for years. He seems like an honest enough guy to mention he's biased if he's personally involved in a product/game
Most of the criticism has sounded like people are Dunkey’s parents. He will be fine, those who sign up will be fine, its no ones business but those involved.
I trully dont see where the problem is. It's not like he's hiding the fact that he publish that game, so if you see a 'critic' about that game on his channel then you know he will like it since he only publish games he like. You dont have to take his words for money.
I get it. You have a great point. It's something few people care about. And, even if you know its not how the real world works and its not what most people care about, it is an ideal you wish people should stand on, and you yourself strive for. Don't sell yourself short, i learned about a few indie games from you and No Clip that made me go out and buy the games and support the devs. And, for what's it worth, i admire your principles and i am of the same mind as you, as well as i admire and appreciate the work you do.
As for Dunkey, i find his content genuinely funny and entertaining most of the time. Sometimes he is even genuinely insightful. He also seemed sincere, not a shill or a sell-out. I admit i kind of went "uh-oh"when i found out he started a publishing business. It's dangerously on the verge of making him, his schtick and or persona, very ironic. 😅 But all i could do is hope for the bright side, that he means well and he helps plenty of indie devs reach more people, and that he does well but without compromising himself just for money. I hope his interest in publishing comes from something genuine, pure, a love and passion for games and not just to make money. Getting rich as a byproduct of intending and doing something good is not a bad thing at all. 😄
I appreciate you posting this video. I've had trouble articulating how I feel about this. For one, I admire the ambitions of he and his wife and I'm glad they're branching out. However critic/publisher is always a tough line to walk, much like critic/filmmaker (remember Space Cop?). My instincts tell me that Dunkey is mature enough to remain hands-off, practical and supportive and possibly represent this shady situation as its best-case scenario. However, I can see this becoming a trend with more youtuber/critics trying this with more controversial results. If you thought the workplace harassment allegations were bad before, the whole industry has the potential to become the wild west.
As a developer, it's pretty refreshing to hear someone finally say that online game reviewers/content creators don't know anything about making a game, and that there are no "good" or "bad" studios
Love the NoClip stuff! I think good journalists set their ethics bar higher than where pretty much anyone else sets it. The sketchy "marketing push because I have a following" is pretty much the backbone of the modern music industry now. And it went through the same phases games are going through. I'm too am assuming that the "find games that are pretty much finished" path is exactly what they're doing. I wish there was a better pathway, but I don't think it's more unethical than pretty much every other pathway to getting something in front of our faces in a busy landscape. Side thought: Steam should just randomly gift people games. No algorithm, no preferences, not all of us get the same game, just random roulette. Then ask for a quick review to get another completely random game. Stuff that's actually good would stick out from that data.
game engine developer here. I have similar concerns to what you raised. It bothers me that he confidently asserted "I know what a good game looks like" as if judging a released game is equivalent to assessing whether it's worth continuing to develop a game based on a prototype. because yes, games change so much during development! I am concerned that devs get a good arrangement if they sign with him. Do they keep creative control? Do they get a good revenue split? Are they personally treated with respect if challenges arise? There's a lot that can go wrong, even for experienced devs and publishers.
perhaps dunkey is hoping to get out of youtube or have a real plan b. BigMode separates Dunkey from his reliance on this platform and he becomes the platform. also please shoot the doc! talk to dunkey ! this story needs noclips insight and to be shared with the community
It is quite fascinating, but I wouldn’t say all that weird for someone who is obviously that passionate about videogames. He realized that this is a venture that he could take on seriously and so he did and more power to him. - I wouldn’t exactly call him a critic, however, because I always found his “critiques” very tongue-in-cheek. I mean, yea, he gives some of his actual opinions as well, but I can’t listen to him the way I would listen to say Ralph as SkillUp or someone else like that who really do expansive reviews. Dunkey’s videos will always be more of entertainment to me, even though he does make good points to consider. As for him in charge of publishing, I think it will be similar to companies to say Devolver or something, who indeed pick up smaller and more unknown projects or studios to then give exposure. I think him and co. know what they’re doing, because that’s also a thing, it’s probably just not him alone. I’m sure also his partner Leah would be involved, for example, so people should probably lose this notion of him sitting there like a king of the castle dictating what’s good or bad or whatever people are thinking. Also, can we stop calling the guy “dunkey” like “he’s only a TH-camr who started a publishing-company”?… I think that’s part of the problem that got so many people rolling their eyes, cause they don’t really think “TH-camrs” or anyone on internet-media is to be taken seriously. - The guy’s name is Jason Gastrow. I know he probably doesn’t care himself, but I think calling the founder of a company by some internet alias is kinda ridiculous and inaccurate. - Just saying. (And yea, I know it’s also for clarity, cause that’s what people know him by. Still…) But, for me, in the end, I think he’s not up to anything malicious or manipulative. It just seems to me like this is a person who is following what they love and want to do more about it than just making videos. Again, he’s found himself in a position where he can do that, so he’s taking the opportunity to do so. I honestly don’t think there’s anything wrong with “using his influence”, if he even intends to use any of it (which I feel like he will keep separate and be quite professional or disciplined about, apart from potential trailers for Big Mode where he goes “only good games” as an in-joke or something), because people should still make up their own minds, and boy are actual user-reviews harsh. If the product is good or bad, you’ll hear it from the masses, not just the “dunkey”-crowd or whatever. - I’m not that worried and I think we’ll find out about some gems through this company, again, like with Devolver and Annapurna and so on indeed. - And IF there’s dubious stuff going on, the world will find out about that as well, and I don’t think that’s what he wants to happen. I just think he loves games and wants to support good and unique projects and actually do something about it.
The core of the problem is Dunkey's audience trust his _objective_ judgement on what games are good, and Dunkey publishes a game which a lot of people will think is _objectively_ good. Even Dunkey promotes his own public image, stating that he knows what a good game is, therefore everybody should trust his judgement. He can seriously be charged with the sin of lying and deceiving the public when he publishes something that is not _objectively_ good, because everybody has already thought it will be good. "It's published by Dunkey, obviously it must be a good game!" The fact that Dunkey becomes the judge and the promoter of games is problematic. Like many people here have stated, to solve this problem, Dunkey must remove his public image as a person who has the authority to judge the good and the bad, and make it very clear that he promotes his own games because he has financial interests in those games, not because they are _objectively_ good (even though he might think so).
This is very well thought-out, so props to that. However, I think you're overthinking it. I know this opinion may not be shared, but I personally don't treat Dunkey like a critic or reviewer. Especially since he can be very satirical. He's not paid like one, his job title isn't one. He doesn't get a paycheck based on his reviews. He gets paid just having eyes on him, which indirectly affects the reviews. Dunkey explicitly talks about Big Mode being HIS company. That right there eliminates any transparency issues. It gets more complicated if we find out he's secretly publishing something without announcing it, and then tells people to go buy said game. Then you're going to have some suits step in. He's just a guy. Now if people want to treat him like a professional or trustworthy voice in an industry, that's on them. Frankly, any media corporation would KILL for that particular self-turn-key smoke and mirrors setup. People KNOW they are supporting his ventures directly with anything Big Mode now publishes. If Dunkey were to eventually become some sort of criminal mastermind, he's gonna need a lot more than just Big Mode. At this point he's just an investor. Why wouldn't you want to promote your investment? He can hate on games I like. Anybody can. Saying he affects sales is like saying anybody ever saying anything negative about any game can affect sales. Are we gonna have companies issuing class-actions against all negative Steam reviewers? It is a fine line, I'll agree on that. But it'll all depend on if some greater corporate/government entity will issue a new creed that dictates that any TH-camr with an opinion is now under scrutiny of the law or BBB or FTC or what have you. That takes care of TH-camrs in the states anyway. Internationally you might be a bit more screwed. You shouldn't really push for a world in which TH-camrs get ultimatums. "You either make funny videos, or you get to have opinions. You can't have both". And I think that's going to be the extreme case if Dunkey's move does become more of a trend. Dunkey's used to be under fire. I hope he can push past stigma if it turns out to be just a social one rather than a legality one. That's just my opinion though.
I like the idea of dunk finding good, nearly complete projects, and guaranteeing a lot of people at least hear about them. I see good indie games having success as more positive than a potential ethics violation is negative. Esp for a guy who gives super Mario bros 2 game of the year annually.
Being a huge fan of gamespot and eurogamer ect when i was a teen to now being almost 10 years in the industry as a 3D artist, it has always kind of annoyed me hearing journalist talk about how games should be made, company politics, even when they mention the buzzwords they know about art assets ect. without having ever opened a 3D package in their lives. It has kind of made me take a step back from a lot of reviewers, and this is why i love noclip, games makers toolkit ect, because they actually deep dive talk to devs and even try making their own prototypes to understand what its like. Anyway i actually wish Dunky all the best and give him full support, i think you just triggered a rant in me :D
I think it's a great idea. So many games struggle to get attention and build an audience. Dunkey is basically putting eyes on these games and animal well is a great fit. As long as he doesn't make a fake or biased review ( i don't think he would do that), it' all good. Maybe noclip should consider doing something like this (just keep the documentaries and the publishing separate)
Spot on! I fully agree. This video is quite speculative and questioning Dunkey on ethics simply from the noise online. NoClip should done what he does best and interviewed Dunkey, info straight from the source.
I think the key thing here is "keep the documentaries and publishing separate" which is the thing that dunkey so far is absolutely not doing. His latest video came with a 2 minute ad for the game he's publishing.
@@NoclipCrew thank god you’re there to police Dunkey. You make documentaries, he makes funny critiques. You’re not the same. There was a point when Shigeru Miyamoto was making his very first first game called Super Mario and Shigesato Itoi was just a copywriter yet he made the Mother games that are still popular today. Why not make something worthwhile instead of subtracting from others? Maybe this attitude is why you never entered game production.
@@NoclipCrew At least he makes it clear that they are publishing animal well, but I see what you mean it is a bit sketchy when it's mixed in with other games.
Bigmode's next few games will be very telling. As you mentioned, Animal Well feels like a perfect fit because Dunkey is well positioned to provide a strong marketing push for a game that is, as far as we can tell, mostly finished. If Bigmode's next title is a project that they see through from pitch to publication then that would be a really interesting process to follow and would demonstrate just how much of a "publisher" Bigmode wants to be. If that's not the case and Bigmode opts to pick up a similarly far along game that just needs a marketing boost then who knows, maybe they will have carved themselves a perfect niche.
Honestly, if there's a publisher shedding light on smaller games, I actually love this. I'm not usually a fan of Dunkey's content and opinions but when he announced big mode I couldn't be happier and more excited for him and his partner. I know it's a big endeavor, and I think we should give them more credit, it was not an overnight decision and I'm sure a lot of planning went into it before deciding to become a publisher. Here's all the best to them.
The amazing about this video (specially nowadays), is that you expose your ideas clearly without any bias or drama attached. Just that alone is worth mention even if you don't care about the topic, this should be studied as a standard on how to communicate in this day and age. Sincere congrats!
For me, that part that is important is disclosure. If Dunkey keeps disclosing what games he is publishing in his videos I have no problem. And that lines up with others, like TH-camrs disclosing if they are sponsored, a reviewer if they got the game for free, or NPR if their story is about a financial supporter. If BigMode starts to get a huge market share then more action should probably be taken. But overall it is always exciting to see more opportunities for indie game devs.
Real question comes how seriously Dunkey Leah are taking it. 1. If they are serious, they will learn the ins-and-outs themselves in order to help their stakeholders and might become legit after a few releases. 2. If they're halfway or if their commit falls over time, it would eventually hurt those who put the faith in them (although that would also hurt Dunkey's rep too)
I've been anticipating Animal Well and participating in its big community puzzles, and I share your skepticism (and ethical questions) regarding BigMode. So I think I understand how you must have felt; I was certainly surprised by the pairing when it was announced (with a video hiding a step in the most recent puzzle, too). And I hope Dunkey does a good job for the game's sake. I really do. Animal Well is release that could greatly benefit from the kind of publicity he could bring to it. So yeah; weird, mixed feelings at the moment. Very much appreciate your thoughtful perspective, experience, and integrity.
I think what needs to happen at this point is either for Dunkey to explain how Big Mode publishing works or for the developer of Animal Well to do so. I don't have a problem with Big Mode publishing feature complete indie games as long as they're transparent about what they offer and the revenue split is heavily in the developer's favor.
I worry that this will only get more dubious as it won't get any clearer what Dunkey's role within bigmode will be and whether we can trust anything he says about the games that he has a hand in publishing as even if his opinions are honest, there's always that background benefit of greater game sales benefiting his finances as well. Seeing him use his platform to highlight new underrated games is a positive, I just think this may also end the popular perception of him as a trustworthy critic.
I love you Danny but this comes off as a little gate-keepy and you trying to put your hands in Something that doesn’t concern you. If Dunkey wants to try his hands at something new, let him. Then we will discuss the results. But this honestly makes you look sour about something that has nothing to do with you. 😒
I'd love to start a discussion about this on the discord (@me if somebody starts one), because this has been living in my head since the announcement too. My biggest question when he originally announced BigMode was "what does Dunkey bring to the table?". I'm a game designer and an indie, I'm working on games, something we've talked about is publishers. There's quite a few to choose from with, like you said, essentially different styles for different people. When Dunkey announced BigMode though, I was more just confused than anything. Like, if you go with someone like Devolver, you know you're getting their QA and localization teams, you know they have contacts with all the big players to make sure you get your game in front of the right people on whatever platform you'd like to launch on, you know they have a good marketing and PR team, there's a lot of value there. Dunkey is hugely popular, sure, but outside of that, what does he bring? And that's the question that's been running through my head. As far as I know he doesn't have any crazy connections from making gaming videos (I could absolutely be wrong, I'm just guessing here). It just seems so bizarre. If it's like you lay out, that'd make a lot of sense, it's just so, so weird.
Based on the years I did spend watching Dunkey, here's my thoughts: he makes really good videos, but I don't trust him with games criticism at all. At all. I don't think the reasons why that's the case are important enough to discuss. That's a matter of personal preference, of course, but what that means is, as much as I think they're doing this with the best of intentions, and as much as I hope for their success and the success of any games that come under their wing, I don't think it's gonna end well. Everyone whose opinions I've come to trust - people who have actually been in the game-making pipeline - are optimistic but with a solidly planted backfoot. When I see that, and I check in with myself and find that my alarm bells are all ringing, I can't shake this feeling that this may very well end in a trash fire sooner or later.
I think we've been down this road before, since even if Big Mode as a publisher is unusual, it's not the first time a TH-camr has made a game. Game Grumps made Dream Daddy, Rooster Teeth's made and published several things, and Yahtzee has been making games and occasionally mentioning them on Zero Punctuation since the mid-2000's. All of those examples have had various levels of success and controversy (I remember Game Grumps fans making a big stink about how their informal docuseries on a bootleg Russian NES clone transformed into a guerilla ad campaign for their next game Soviet Jump Game, which had so much blowback the game was basically DOA.) Ethically, I think as long as Dunkey's upfront with the games he's promoting (as he was in his Animal Well announcement in his "Best of 2022" video), we'll be fine.
Im also super excited for animal well. It was fortunate that they showed it on the wholesome direct last year. Like La mulana meets cute animals in a weird somewhat unsettling environment with a unique art style. Can't wait for it
It really depends on how how they handle it. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with trying to use a position you've built up to do something more. Nor do I think there's anything wrong with doing something you're out of your depth on. They'll either learn some hard lessons or fail, most likely. There could definitely be some unethical ways he could handle it, but even using his own platform to promote games he's publishing is no more inherently unethical that making sponsored content or promoting affiliates. Just as long as he's straightforward about his involvement.
From the start I figured that what they'd end up doing as their main/only thing is what it seems like they are doing with this game. Going with indie games that are mostly built and just giving them a marketing push. I don't think they'll really get involved in making changes or anything like that, at least not early on. If they did end up getting on the ground floor of a game, i think they'd change up the language to let that be known (rather than saying we're publishing this game, say something like we're working with X to develop this game) I think it's an overall good. The more big singular voices with audiences that can give attention to indie games, the better.
honestly, i dont really like dunkeys videos, never really have for whatever reason, but i do like the way hes handling this whole thing. the announcement video sounded like, to me anyway, that he was taking the approach of "you guys know what my opinions of video games are like, im going to be a publisher for games that i think are good. if your tastes line up with mine youll probably like what im publishing". he seems like a good enough guy that the ethical concerns of him being a "reviewer" shouldnt really be too big of an issue. hes being pretty up front about what this whole thing is. its just a way for him to give games that hes excited for some extra money and marketing.
What's really unique about Dunkeys presentation as a "critic" is that he's open about the facts - he has preferences and talks about them and doesn't hesitate to suggest following someone with preferences you share. He builds trust because he is both open and honest about it. Something a lot of other critical sources fail to build. Another good example was Arstechnicas Mac OS reviews.
This will be an interesting wait-and-see situation since all he really brings to the table is clout. I hope you continue to cover it as things progress since it's a somewhat unique opportunity to observe a new, fairly green publisher try to learn to walk.
I guess it never entered my mind as an ethical question for me because I personally can easily put Dunkey in the entertainer bucket. Yeah, he has opinions and critiques of games but I think since he obviously misrepresents games for humors sake often enough that I can't take him seriously as a 'critic' so I don't give him that credibility or responsibility in my mind. Some people do, until he does what he does to a game they like (Xenoblade etc). I think TH-camrs using their platform to get the word out on smaller games is a great use of their audience, I guess investing in them financially is just the next logical step for many. Whether that offers ethical questions depends on the TH-camr and the person questioning it I guess, as it is a lot murkier than a press outlet doing the same. As long as no one tries to maintain an air of objectivity while promoting a game they secretly get paid from. That was (is?) more common in the days of influencer marketing, and as long as the game has a BigMode sticker on it people should know to take Dunkey's word with that in mind.
For me I think it was that initial video he put out, I couldn't tell if it was a gag, I dropped off from Dunkey after that one Yooka Laylee video where he made a joke about it being made in Unity like its a bad thing, which made me have a lack of faith in his understanding of game development, if this works out, good! I really does hope it benefits developers more than anything, it really depends on how much involvement/say he has, only time will tell
I don't think this video is very necessary as a reviewer and as a publisher there is a clear difference but you have to ask in the first place if dunkey wants to publish a game that means his opinion on that game is very high. So that means his opinion cannot change if he publishes a game rather whether he publishes a game or not is based off of his opinion. Ethically I see nothing wrong with this he's not going to be a sellout and has full transparency with how much he is actually involved with the games he is publishing. I see nothing wrong with him using his channel and his voice to market a game even though he is a reviewer.
While it remains to be seen how well he and his (their) company will handle the more complex business side of things, I think your chair analogy sums up my thoughts pretty well. The man knows a good game when he sees one, or at least one that he likes, and if he can find an audience for small productions that would otherwise slip under the radar I don't see much harm in all this. Discovery is hard and we need more companies like devolver, new blood and raw fury etc.
I find it so hard to take Dunkey seriously as a critic bc he keeps meandering between being straightforward and satirical. I remember he made a video about Metroid Dread saying it was “a piece of crap” where he would speak in a sarcastic tone the whole time but say criticisms that weren’t really jokes. I can’t see him as a critic bc ppl can’t tell whether he’s doing a bit and/or when it ends. The populist thing is also spot on bc he constantly feeds into bad narratives that reinforces people’s worst habits about the games industry.
If Bigmode focuses on publishing indie titles, they should have a lot of room to only pick games they believe have potential. AAA publishers often end up having to publish unfinished products, which costs a lot of trust with their fanbase and has lead directly to their bad reputations. Dunkey has made plenty of videos where he critiques universally panned games, but he has also made videos about games he loves and is clearly trying to convey his love for the game. Some of my favorite videos are when he picks up a AAA game, (often made by Nintendo), he starts trying to pan the game and make silly jokes, and then starts to enjoy the game instead. His show is about playing and finding good games, big or small, and falling in love with them if its good, and making funny jokes panning the game if its bad. Personally, I don't believe Dunkey is the kind of person to push a bad game to his fanbase just for a quick buck. He can make a quick buck just by making funny jokes about terrible, obscure, decades old titles from the N64 or earlier. He can make a quick buck by promoting a new piece of merch on his store. I trust that Dunkey started a publishing company because he sincerely wants to push the industry forward by placing skilled devs onto a stage where their deserving work can be seen.
I’m a little confused on the issue. Maybe I misunderstood something about the whole process, but if it’s about advertising, I don’t see why it’s morally wrong for a popular TH-camr to use their platform to promote a product that they have a hand in. We don’t know how big dunkey’s hand is, or what it’s doing, but on either side hypothetically if he made the whole game, or just paid to publish it, I don’t see the moral issue.
I don't think I've literally ever viewed Dunkey videos as anything but entertainment and satire. There's a tonal shift when you can tell he's talking about a game he really loves, but he's a comedy channel first. Regarding business, there's plenty of games personalities who get involved in games development. Said personalities have shared plenty of takes on podcasts, streams, etc...I don't think it hurts the efforts of the new project. I'll still look for MULTIPLE qualified user and critic reviews of any title from Big Mode. What Big Mode gets a jump start on, is they have the marketing platform that most publishers would die for. As long as he discloses that HE'S publishing it, there's no issue. Its the fault of anyone who blindly ignores that association if they choose to only trust a single-source for info (dunkey). +1 on getting an interview with Dunkey. I'd love to see y'all chat.
Really appreciate the genuinely well thought out points in the video. It feels nice to see this side of Noclip! When it comes to dunkey, I feel that promoting a game you are helping develop on TH-cam is very common. All the gamedev youtubers are essentially doing that. Using the relationship with their audience to reflect well on the game they are making. It's true that dunkey has a less obvious connection to his games then the typical game dev youtuber. But in my eyes, it is not that big of an issue. Of course he will make a video about it and people of course trust his opinion. But unless he purposely misleads viewers by ignoring the fact he is publishing (using humor this could be done easily) it would be alright for me. Also this was bound to happen given how like you pointed out, publishers have less and less to offer except marketing know how. As well as how discoverability has become everything both in games and any media around the world. People's eyeballs is what everyone wants. Him and all other influencers have it and making a large business out of it has become a norm on youtube.
between this and your discussion of the new harry potter game in the recent podcast episode, it's clear that NoClip is one of the most grownup, thoughtful, valuable voices in this industry. please never change.
One thing not touched on much here is the publishers role as a financer. I would hope Bigmode fronted them some money to allow the devs to take their time and finish the game right. A lot of indie devs rush their games out the door cause they can't afford to continue development with no income. Also I wonder what their cut is. Ethically I don't think their is anything wrong with using your brand to promote a game and make money. But are they asking for 5% or 50% of the games revenue? Too often large publishers really take advantage of indie devs who are either desperate or don't know any better.
I think the bigger issue is also that when Dunkey announced BigMode, a big part of it was Dunkey doing some game design work because he ‘knows what makes games good’. I think it’s fine with Animal Well since the game is effectively locked and just needs the final marketing push. But as Dunkey starts to advertise games that he is guiding the design on it will become a lot yuckier - and those games might suck. Hopefully the success of Animal Well helps bigmode steer clear from attaching itself to projects too early and getting too hands on with the design
This video precisely describes how conflicted I felt by the announcement myself. On a side note, I also do think that a big part of the potential issue is how we perceive dunkey. He’s kind of tried to set himself apart from mainstream critics and publications in the past but some really do treat his opinion as gospel which complicates things. To some, he’s just an entertainer, but he obviously holds sway over consumers purchasing decisions, whether he intends to or not. Making funny videos shitting on Ubisoft, JRPG’s, buggy launches, whatever is fine and funny in of itself, but when if you even just put it next to Big Mode announcements, even if they aren’t even remotely competing in the same ballpark, idk things get a tiny bit weird to me. It’s nothing worth getting up in arms over, obviously. I think there are far more “shady” things going on elsewhere in the gaming industry, in fairness to Dunkey who either way is also putting his money into cool indies that otherwise might’ve not seen the light of day. It’s a weird line to cross though, and it could theoretically get worse in the future.
I'm slightly worried that Big Mode will sell devs on publishing services for which they don't have the expertise, causing their games to underperform and devs to fail who would otherwise succeed.
I've never even heard of Dunkey before this video, so I have no other context on what his channel is like. As long as a TH-camr/Reviewer is upfront about their financial investment in a product (being paid or otherwise) then I don't mind them posting about it. What I care about in the end is if I find their reviews reliable and relevant to my interests.
Never really thought about the ethics of it since I don't watch dunkey and didn't think he really "reviewed" games. I suppose there is a clear conflict of interest there, but at least it's out in the open and in my opinion, that goes a long way to making it ok for him to publish games. It's probably not a perfect scenario, but I don't see how it can be avoided if he wants to do both. It would definitely be way worse if there was no disclosure.
I still question the longevity of an influencer like dunkey. He's been around a long time but it's hard to imagine he'd be making TH-cam videos until he retires. I saw this less as a way to make MORE money and more as a way for Dunkey and his wife to have (hopefully) a stable income that would allow them to move away from producing video content as their primary source of income. Edit: On a side note I understand where your coming from in feeling that what they are doing may have a dubious side. But maybe my opinion on Dunkey could help ease the mind. I watch every video he releases just like I watch noclip. I love his content but I don't always agree with it because I can form my own opinions. Sadly, it doesn't seem that's a skill everyone holds these days. But there are many fans who understand that Dunkey's taste in video games isn't the end all, be all of good games. I'd go as far as saying I only agree with 30-40% of his opinions. But I don't watch Dunkey because I think he has good taste in video games or because I expect him to show me good games. I watch because he is the Adam Sandler of the video game side of TH-cam.
Danny's gift is to be able to make an interesting video out of topics that I have absolutely zero interest in. it can be a game that I know I'll never like or play, and the video will still be great. Or a video about a TH-camr I've never heard publishing a game I've never heard of. I very nearly skipped over this video but glad that I didn't.
the first half is so generally speculative that i feel like it's mostly about influencers in general getting into publishing and less about dunkey specifically there's a palpable apprehension to the concept, but every time dunkeys name is brought up it's 'we don't know if he'll do this' or 'i think they might do something like this' and that interests me more, because you use the term 'ethically dubious' a number of times, but i'd like to hear you follow that line down further because to be frank (i wish i was frank) i just don't get from the outset why it's particularly dubious conceptually, like is it less dubious for a rich person who owns a hockey team that knows nothing about this stuff to get into it? what would be the perfect kind of person to get into it, and how does that differ so incredibly from an influencer that ticks every box that dunkey did?
im hoping that maybe after like 2-3 games published and mentioned on dunkey's own channel, the publisher itself on whatever other social media has enough of an audience to not have to rely on youtube shoutouts. if bigmode eventually gets to stand its own ground separated from dunkey, i would respect it
I've watched Dunkey for over a decade now and still like his content (admittedly a bit less so these days). My biggest worry is that Dunkey seems to have an inflated sense of competency and knowledge when it comes to game dev, more so than most critics. This leads him to making occasional bizarre criticism that flies in the face of extremely basic tenets of game design (see some of his Overwatch balance critiques). I think Danny hit the nail on the head; the most obvious way BigMode can be profitable is if Dunkey unethically uses his platform to simultaneously critique and promote games. Based on his announcement video, I don't think Dunkey has much else to offer in the way of production expertise. I don't begrudge any indie dev in the slightest who can get this massive boost in exposure with such a deal, but I do believe this is going to be ethically compromising for Dunkey. It would take massive, constant disclaimers and content separation to navigate this type of situation with even the remote chance of remaining ethically uncompromised, if it is possible at all. I just don't see that happening.
I personally don't think of Dunkey or any other TH-camr who reviews games as a critic. To me they are entertainers who are not bound to give me an objective/ethical review of something but simply entertain me.
What is the point of this video? You just sit and talk about what he could've done that you would've disagreed with but it turns out he did another thing? And this video is posted months after he done said thing? what a waste of time of a video jesus christ
Yahtzee is also making a game. So what? I don't get the problem at all. The only problem is that people will have high expectations of their games, because they are critics. Furthermore being a publisher does not make you a developer, you just *publish*.
Looking at how influencers promote games with sponsored streams or referral links or whatever: announcing to the audience that you ARE the publisher and you DO own a stake in the game is only making it more clear what that relationship is. So in that way this is an improvement. Looping back to the videos he makes on his Dunkey channel now though: you'll never really know if dumping on Overwatch 2 is part of his marketing strategy or not going forward. So it weakens his identity as an entertainer (or whatever he is). He COULD abuse the audience from this position, and some people might say that's already enough to cross the line, which I understand. I would wait until I feel it as an audience member though. Other TH-camrs are doing this too by the way, BlueDrake42 releases games with MicroProse and Dr Disrespect seems to be co-bankrolling some development company to make a game named Deadrop. I think these audiences haven't cared one bit, but to me: watching their emphatic and emotionally charged videos about this and that game with the same voice that they promote themselves feels sleazy.
I don't really understand why this is such a big issue. As long as he doesn't review the games he's publishing, it's w/e imo. You mentioned how unethical this is, but I don't see it honestly. It's not like he heavily relies on Big Mode for income since he's got a big TH-cam channel and merch already. In my eyes it just seems like he wants to give spotlight and financially support games he really likes.
So in music, a producer is someone very hands-on, a musician in-and-of their own right, and is hired by the band and/or the label. In games, what we call producers functions as the label, AKA the promoter. In both music and games, the label if you will can find and nurture talent, but they aren't making the music or the games. And the roles game labels perform is not organic, it's a weird creative-business-personal decision, some game promoters doing more for/to the game than others. This makes this discussion full to choking on assumptions on everyone's part, and difficult to untangle without knowing the kind of specific business arrangements we aren't often privy to.
Dunkey's ethics have always been up in the air TBH
Super Mario Bros 2 has won GOTY for him more times than I can count. Clear nepotism on his part
GotY in itself is just an ego advertisement anymore.
I'm glad someone is bringing this up.
@@brandenlucero same with music & film awards imo, and I’m part of the film industry
He even admitted the game was shitty. It's all to get back at the dvd copy of Sharktale.
Unironically his ethics are trash. He makes dunkviews and treats them as legitimate reviews but then lies in those videos and misrepresents the games and when confronted he acts like it’s just all a joke. He’s not a game critic, he’s a comedian. Nothing more, and frankly speaking he doesn’t have the integrity to ever be a legitimate critic.
you're welcome to reach out anytime! i feel like your questions here come from a lack of familiarity (understandable), and for anyone wondering- jason won't make dunkviews for any games we publish, it'll always be transparent what games bigmode is publishing
this is why Jason is a happy and successful man, he has Leah
I think you should talk to them, Danny.
That's silly as hell! Leah and Dunk, don't listen to the haters!!! How the hell is it immoral to showcase those games? I think it would be a disservice to deprive us of witnessing Dunkey play the games!! He makes any game seem more fun than anyone I know!!! I mean for real, I dont think it would be unethical to showcase those games!! Anybody who says otherwise is a HATER!! That is batshit cray cray bro play your company's games!! Please for real
Now that Im thinking of it, I think it would just be plain stupid for Dunkey to not record himself playing or even reviewing the games!! That should be a perk of getting your game published by BigMode!
@@JB2FROSTY dont worry!! he can definitely showcase bigmode games, they just wouldn't be part of his dunkview series. some were wondering about the ethics of reviewing a game you're publishing, so just letting people know that isn't a concern!
As an indie game developer who just released my first game, youtubers 100% had the biggest impact on sales. Above press, ads, events, twitter, reddit, twitch and everything else. I would have loved to have that kind of noise for my game.
Yea I think this has been great for Animal Well. What's your game? (congrats on completing it!)
@@NoclipCrew from their channel it looks like its called Kainga: Seeds of Civilization :)
I think that's looking at this from a marketing perspective and I think Danny's point seems to be that publishers are responsible for a lot more than just marketing? It might have made more sense if dunkey referred to it as a spotlight type program where he simply puts his vote behind good games and maybe catches a percentage of sales or something? But publishing is probably a bit bigger than most of us think and perhaps we're all collectively underestimating the work that goes into publishing
Publishers can do a variety of things for a game. Sometimes it's developer help/funding, other times it can just be marketing. Bigmode (according to their website) offers pretty much all of these depending on the game
@NoclipCrew It's called Kainga: Seeds of Civilization, it's a roguelite + village-builder! If you want to do a video on what it's like as a solo dev making it in this industry let me know ;)
I think a huge element of this is his transparency. If he said, “Hey guys I just found this cool game that you should buy,” and didn’t mention he had a hand in it, that would be a problem. But as long as he says, “I helped make this game and that’s why I’m telling you about it,” then I see absolutely no reason to have a problem with it.
"and we found this new site called csgo lotto.."
I'm glad you chose to share your thoughts on this. I feel very conflicted on the whole thing-
On the one hand, putting myself in dunkey's position, it seems like a no-brainer to use your platform and your resources to help make games that you want to see get made. If I were optimistic I would say that maybe this will help him to offer critique that comes from a less naive place in the future.
I can't shake the feeling though that unless he were to drop games criticism entirely, there's always going to be a conflict of interest too big to ignore. What concerns me most is his refusal to acknowledge that, or any of the other criticisms bigmode has gotten so far.
Love your videos.
That is all :)
I feel like that conflict of interest is not as big as people make it out to be. First he really only covers major AAA releases, which are not exactly competition for the games he is trying to release. As far as indie games go he has only reviewed 6 (stray, Neon white, Celeste, Enter the Gungeon, Yooka Laylee, and No Mans Sky) and of those he only gave poor ratings to yooka laylee and No Mans Sky. All of those games were also massively popular so even if he stopped reviewing indie games altogether it would be a very small hit to his output. The rest of his videos are just him playing the games
Noodle can you literally do the same thing as him. People like you and Dunkley name the things in games that are fun that studios seem to miss. Who better to make and push fun games then people who get it. Anyway stop feeling conflicted and start noodle studios asap
This is such a nothing topic
@@bradbradson4543 This is a important topic because having opinions is important
Indie dev here with one of those games that fell through the cracks.
TH-cam Watcher Hat:
I think the "entertainer" vs "critic" conversation comes down to a question of credibility. If the games are bad, but Dunkey says they're good, he'll lose credibility. And if he loses credibility, then his recommendations hold less weight.
In general I don't think of it as too problematic, but I also don't think of Dunkey as an "Objective Journalist", he's a youtuber with a highly subjective opinion, which I may or may not agree with on a game-by-game basis.
I find it interesting to compare this to a "standard" TH-camr advertising agreement:
If Animal Well paid Dunkey to advertise their game (like paying for 60 second pre-video ad), it would have cost some amount of money: X. As the publisher, Dunkey is likely going to make some % of the sales of the game: Y. Lets assume that through magic, X and Y are the same. In both situations, Dunkey's "objective assessment" of the game is in question, though if I'm honest about it, I feel like the ad version is "more sketchy" or "less credible". I guess this is what makes the situation all the more dubious...
Indie Dev Hat:
From my perspective (as someone who doesn't really enjoy or engage with social media), the role of a publisher is to get the game in front of as many people as possible. Sending the game out to TH-cam/Twitch streamers seems like the way to get it in front of people, but it suuuuuucks. For my game I sent out over 1600 keys through a mix of direct emails and things like Keymailer. Of those, almost all the streams & videos were in the 5-30 viewer range. Even a single video or shoutout from Dunkey would be tens of thousands of times the exposure than the game has had in its entire lifespan. Sure, it'd be nice if that happened organically or "for free", but if he came to me and said "I get 95% of the sales after the video goes live" (an intentionally ludicrous number), I can guarantee I'd make more money than I currently am from the game.
Yeah I think people tend to underestimate that last part, even after a game like Vampire Survivors came out of nowhere and took over the world and made millions, thanks at the start to a few streamers. Most "gamers" will say they saw articles about it in the press, but the press is *always* following and amplifying success, not creating it. Same thing happened with Trombone Champ on a lesser level. Picked up by streamers, then PC gamer made a tweet that made it into the gamer mainstream.
@@Fachewachewa I'd be interested in seeing some evidence/numbers involved in what a game gets from 'articles from news/conglomerate' channels like IGN and PC Gamer vs what a game gets from big streamers/youtubers doing a video of the game. I'm sure it's almost impossible to quantify, but from my own anecdotal experience and intuition (and I could be very wrong), I'd gamble that making a round or three around the youtube/twitch space would be BY FAR bigger for game sales than just articles
@@lordcrispen Yeah, unless a dev shares their wishlist/sales data and can link its evolution to different articles or videos, the best option is to check the follow history on steamdb. But obviously even for devs sometimes it's hard to know why people suddenly get interested (like when a very niche youtuber covers a game).
But I think it's more youtubers and streamers simply because the press tends to cover only the big games everyone already knows. But they can still have an impact, like that PC Gamer Trombone Champ tweet which you can definitely see on the follower chart for Sept 21 on steamDB
Well i think it falls under the umbrella of say game reviewers who are sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends.
Its obviously some mobile cash farm junk, but as long as they dont actually review the bad game it should be fine.
I think if he just doesnt review the games and replies to criticism directly as a publisher would, hell be alright.
WaltzingDucks is a monster, whoever that is. First place on all the times. Great game so far btw, just hit level 25.
You mentioned having a graveyard in your mind for all the small indie titles who never found their audience. Could you see yourself doing a series highlighting these games? I'd love to see them!
Edit: Also, as for what I think - reach out to dunkey? If he's really in it for the right reasons he might give a good interview. But yes, personally, I agree with your doubts!
I was conflicted on this at first impressions as well, but then I thought about what I would do if I suddenly had a bunch of money. If I won the lottery, some rich relative wrote me in their will, whatever... I would also probably fund a ton of games I thought were cool and give full creative control to the developers. If that is what Dunkey is doing then by all means, I say go for it.
tl;dr, as someone who have been a professional gamedev for 6 years, I fully understand and feel similar about this. It's the same feeling I had when the IGN/Humble thing happened. Which I just recently check is not being handled ethically at all.
Long Version:
People in the business of talking about games, getting into a business where a game doing financially well is in their personal interest, should always initially illicit a skeptical reaction.
Ultimately, I think just like the case of sponsored content (like streamers getting paid to play a game), these publications/individuals need to continually be 100% transparent and upfront about financial involvement in these situations. As long as people hold them accountable whenever a transgression occurs, it should be mostly fine.
I think the extra layer of why people (myself included) have been very cautious of Bigmode is because in the publication/publisher situation, the actual employees of the publication are not the ones that are invested. Therefore they shouldn't be influenced/pressured into changing their reviews and articles (ESPECIALLY after the Gerstmann thing).
Whereas Dunky is both the critic AND the publisher. So they cannot be trusted to talk about the game in a critical way (even though their largely younger audience, would see them as an authority).
The most ethical way Dunky could talk about Animal Well is to upload a trailer and go "Hey, I do believe in this game and think it's good. That is why I was comfortable publishing it, meaning I have a financial interest in this game selling well.". And that's it
A game critic can go "hey, the company I work for has a financial interest in this game, keep that in mind while I give my opinion about it", and because of that degree of separation, we can at least hear them out (with a grain of salt). If Dunky was to upload a video of the game and go "I have money riding on this, here are my thoughts about it", that is wack.
Also just to check, I went and looked at IGN articles on Humble Games published titles. NONE the articles for Signalis have disclaimers, so FUCK ME I GUESS?
Imo, it’s fine if Dunkey makes a video promoting a game that his company is publishing, it is in no way that much different from the marketing push other publishers do. The only thing to talk here would be the fact that Dunkey couldn’t possibly make another video about other games anymore, because that video will be controversial no matter what.
If he’s turning his channel, his entire TH-cam career, into an ad channel to promote the games his company is publishing, that’s fine. But, yeah, too bad he wouldn’t be able to talk about games the way he does in the past anymore.
@@NeroVingian40 or he can continue talking about other games, but not his games at all. He could keep his channel as always, but avoid any review of the games published by him. The only type of videos he could upload about his games would be promotional ones.
@@MzaM that won’t work as well. For example, if he were publishing game X, and he suddenly makes a video about game Y, people would still probably arrive to the conclusion that he was just talking about game Y because it’s similar to game X, be it a similar genre, or similar mechanics, similar art style, or even just simply similar color palette, and how he is talking about how game Y is just to promote game Y, and to lead people to searching for a similar game to game Y one they’ve finished game Y, which would be game X, the game his company published (game X actually might not even be remotely similar to game Y in the first place, but this is the internet and people would think of anything here, that’s just how the internet works). And this is not even mentioning if he was actually criticizing on other games in a bad way to simply make his published games look better.
In short, these are just a few of the various ethical issues that shows up when you’re a critic and also a publisher, you just can’t be both, because trying to be both is just too controversial. It’s the same saying that “tech reviewers can’t make their own smartphone”, because any future content from their channel afterwards will be compared to their own product and highly potentially be scrutinized by the audience, no matter what is actually happening. For Dunkey, the only way for his channel to stay relevant is if he just turned his channel into a marketing tool for his own published games, just talking about his own games and never to talk about other games anymore. (And since this is the internet, even that would be rubbing some people off in a wrong way, seeing as how a channel that was previously built on funny videos on all types of games to suddenly be turned into a marketing tool for the owner’s own company). Tbh, what Dunkey is doing is just crazy, if I were him, I wouldn’t be doing it because it’s just not worth the controversy and money investment. That’s sad, I know, but that’s just how a TH-cam critic’s life is.
Damn I hadn't considered IGN as a game publisher with Humble, that's a bit mindblowing and obviously an issue. Was wondering how Signalis blew up out of nowhere 😏
Signalis is legitimately fantastic.
I just like this format of talking about something you have complex feelings about and want to sort your thoughts out loud.
Sorry for forcing you all to be my therapist
@@NoclipCrew can I be your therapist? I’m not qualified but I’m a good listener 😂
Jokes aside. Thank you for everything you do Danny!
@@NoclipCrew well interested people are interesting. As you said people get focused on the sort of soap opera caricature of the industry, so for someone experienced like you whose project is to document how the sausage gets made, having an outlet for ruminating on new grey areas of sausagemaking is valuable. In a way people watch your content because you’re good at communicating what you’re fascinated by, and this is a good outlet for less conclusive/in-process thoughts contributing to a better picture of this industry that’s super weird and moves fast
I think Dunkeys just looking to enter a similar space as devolver digital, publishing small unique indie games and using his unique style as the marking push for the game. The make or break is going to be if he does more than just videos on his channel to promote it
I dunno, I’m a bit disappointed this is even a video from noclip, I think noclio was better at least interviewing Dunkey, letting him explain the direction and not having this speculative video on ‘ethics’.
@@seankelly6711 We do documentaries on our main channel, this side channel is for our own opinions and let's plays. He's a public figure and I'm not accusing him of anything in particular so I don't feel there's a requirement to get a quote. I mean, what would I ask "are you selling out mate?".
When I first heard of the news, the first thing that was going through my mind is “that’s it, this guy can’t make content anymore on TH-cam, that’s the end of his TH-cam career”, mainly because his future content would then have bias towards the games his company is publishing.
After some time have passed and I’ve given it more thinking through, I came to the more or less the same conclusion that what this video is about. TH-camrs have these big audience, and if they’re trying to market their game using the Dunkey TH-cam channel, that’s gonna be a great marketing push. The make or break for me, is if Dunkey will still make a video about another game (any game that wasn’t published by their company), because that will always gonna be controversial, whether the intentions was just for fun (like how his videos usually is in the past), or actually downplaying other games to make the games their company are publishing looks better.
In short, yeah, Dunkey isn’t just betting his money into this, he’s betting his channel as well (basically, his whole TH-cam career), his channel is gonna go through a whole lot of change from now on.
@@NeroVingian40 now that you say this I wish he'd make a second channel just for the games he's publishing. Keep the main channel free from Bigmode games. I feel like if he did do that we wouldn't lose that many other game videos from him.
@@Ramonatho even a second channel would still be associated to his main one though. I mean, if he does a second channel anonymously, yeah, that will work, if the second channel has his name on it (or has any relations to him whatsoever), he still can’t be doing videos other than his own published games.
I think Dunkey comes from a genuine love for the medium and wanted to "do something" about the state of gaming. He's been immersed in it for so long, when it's your world it's hard not to become cynical when you see some companies make more effort to innovate in monetization than in gameplay. One day he played through something like that one too many times and decided to promote games that care about being games. At least that's my read of the situation, that might be totally wrong.
I'd be curious to hear a more in depth discussion from him.
I believe that that's where this all started from but to be honest I have a hard time trusting anyone making YT videos for a living to navigate the extremely murky waters of when that's ethical to do and how is he going to affect people by uploading/promoting. If he's going to bill himself as serious in his Dunkviews then we have an issue, and right now he does do that for plenty of his content.
Obviously this. All these "concerned" people clearly haven't followed Dunkey very closely, which is fine, but more importantly they've failed to bring up a way in which Bigmode could do any damage to anything. This is a complete non-topic, none of the uncertainties brought up in the video seemed very uncertain to me at all, and it's baffling to see so many people drowning in the zero mililiters of water this "dilemma" holds.
Seriously, what's the danger here exactly? He's gonna go rogue and try to sell you a bad game? Which you somehow fall for despite all your skepticism, so you're out 20 bucks and never trust him again? Oh no!
It's pretty dumb IMO.
@@gnomefuel We can definitely go for a more charitable explanation than that, and I do like a lot of noclip's content. But whatever the case, it does seem to me like a distortion stemming from a unique point of view. The guy wears his bias on his sleeve after all; he straight up dislikes any criticism of games coming from outside the industry. He can have his opinion, and because he was nice enough to put it out in the open like that, I can safely discard it.
You mentioned around 12:25 that you have a "graveyard" in your mind of good indie games that never found an audience. I'm curious about what these games are - sounds like an interesting topic for a video!
Ctrl Alt Ego
The word Danny was looking for at 8:10 is Publishing, not Developing.
To my knowledge, Alex Austin of Cryptic Sea is the sole developer of Stunt Derby.
Which would put NoClip in the exact same situation as Dunkey.
All (perfectly valid) criticisms Danny has pointed out could be pointed right back at NoClip.
How Should I Feel about NoClip Publishing Games? 🤔
Well it's been a year and Animal Well is out and it's a freaking amazing game. Like really really really REALLY good. Atmospheric and moody and chill and scary and so many things. It's clearly a labor of love and an ode to video game secrets. The tons and tons of positive reviews are what is making it a success. Dunkey's role in it was a small part, but if he convinced anyone to look into it and want to play it that was a good thing. I've made and published loads of games and I can say that Dunkey picked a winner. I think what he did was he played it or watched it and he made a smart business decision to highlight a title that needed more eyes on it. This was a win-win. It made his Big Mode brand look incredible and I now know I can trust ANY game with a Big Mode brand on it at least in the coming years similar to how I can almost always trust the Devolver Digital brand. And that's all a brand is. It's a thing you either trust or don't. It's an opinion thing, but it can be informed based on experiences had. I like Dunkey's videos and his critical tastes. I love animal well and I can say that more people who really truly critique games should work to spotlight amazing titles like this. I also can say that I did not buy animal well based on Dunkey's promotions of it. What convinced me to buy it was reading a review of it on Polygon. I was like "oh dang I should check this thing out, I love puzzles." And yeah it was a great time!
I feel like Dunkey's lack of comment has been largely the best thing for him to do. Saying the wrong thing could tank the project, even if it isn't meant how people take it. Actions speak louder than words and with that we just sorta have to keep waiting to see how it plays out
Just "finished" Animal Well. Yeah, that was a very smart move ✨
The quality of the game itself absorbs all these "naive" questions about ethics. It's a masterpiece and internet knows it.
I'm personally just excited there will be even more opportunities for solid indie games to get made and played. Dunkey seems to get that. I feel Dunkey is more of an entertainer that will once in a while suprise you with something poignant. Kind of like a good stand up with a message and a perspective. I feel like the age of the "objective" critic is long dead. People have context and relationships with things. I think most people understand that.
That's kind of the problem I've had with Dunkey's content that Danny touched on too. Is he an entertainer? Is he a critic? Is he a marketer? Those lines are so blurry now and to me, even if he still purports to give honest, genuine opinions when he does reviews, that overlap compromises his opinions in my eyes. Animal Well seems cool and I'll be interested to see the response when it comes out, but not from him or anyone close to him, and I don't think I could take his opinion on similar games in the future.
@@Mars0War Dunkey’s pretty transparent about when he’s reviewing a game and when he’s simply making a video for entertainment.
If the title of the video says “dunkview” then it’s a real review. Otherwise it’s purely for entertainment.
all these ppl hating on dunkey just cuz none of his videos got any dislikes last year smdh
As a developer, I feel I'm constantly hearing people from media (youtubers, journalists,...) talking about any aspect of the game industry with absolute confidence and an obvious "I could do better" attitude when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
I honestly think your humble approach and sincere will to learn is truly making you wiser than most. Congratulations on that personal growth and keep on having that wholesome attitude.
About the topic of the publisher, I still firmly believe that no youtuber can make a game successful, no matter how big their platform is. People often say this or that game became very popular after someone played it. In my experience, those games always had a huge potential and appeal and that's why a big youtuber played them. I see the snowball that comes after that as a consequence of the game's appeal and not as the reason for its success. I believe those games were going to succeed in one way or another.
So if their first game works well, I really think it'd be because Animal Well is a great product with a potential big audience (it certainly looks fantastic, on my wishlist since the first time it was shown months ago) and not because the publisher had an unfair advantage as a youtuber.
No matter how big those youtubers are, their reach is nowhere near what a big publisher has and yet they can't assure all their games are successful.
Something nobody says is that some of those huge accounts play and show games that then sell nothing. They don't talk about it because believing that showing your game will have a huge impact is what their business is about. So many indies spend what for them is a fortune for some minutes of attention and they get nothing out of it.
I'd say both yes and no. Noel Berry (one of the Celeste devs) credits dunkey directly with a lot of the initial success of the game. He was there before it was released and actually talked with them directly asking how he could support it.
With publishers, yeah their reach may be huge simply due to the fact that reach costs a lot. But you have to consider as well the *quality* of that reach. People following a TH-camr have a way more personal connection (vive la parasocial relationship), and any recommendation / support coming from them is going to carry infinitely more weight than an ad put out by a publisher (of course there are certain publishers who they themselves have a fanbase, Devolver for example).
I think it's hard to say, and definitely depends on what is included in the "publishing". If it's monetary support and quality reach, then that might be enough for some. However for those who need support with localization, porting to different platforms, etc. That won't do a whole lot.
From the BigMode website, I think it's pretty clear that BigMode exists to provide quality reach and some later stage funding to projects that otherwise might have been lost. Like yourself I had wish listed Animal Well when I saw it first announced, but we'd be in a pretty solid niche of people who actually pay attention to new indie titles. I'm the only dev at my studio who really does anything indie related.
This doesn't make sense. People keep saying "conflict of interest" without explaining at all what the conflict is. Including you. As long as there's an immediate disclaimer that he published the game, and published it because he likes it, what is the conflict? At that point an audience should know that it's in part an advertisement and in part a recommendation from a critic they like, because the critic had a part in distributing the game. It doesn't invalidate the critics opinion on other games.
More power to you. Back in the early 2000s my friend and I tried devlopving a game we thought would bs creepy where you roam an endless landscape that is covered in fog. The fog sometimes was super dense, other times not very dense. You would find random items, weapons...etc. There would be enemies that would track you down and try to kill you. It was basically a a survival game. There were of course fantasy elements like zombies, magic filled beings...etc. But we didn't get very far.
Just working with the unreal engine was so hard that we gave up on it. I have nothing but respect for those who makes games, especially small titles/indie games.
Thanks for making this point in a more nuanced way, rather than just being vehemently against Big Mode or all for it. The problem with the internet is that you're expected to be on a specific "side". I think when I heard about Dunkey's publishing company he talked about it in a really excited way that seemed like it was driven by a dream rather than experience. I hope he goes through the right channels and works with the developer to make Animal Well a success, but I definitely have some skepticism.
I feel like we haven't seen anything internally to reveal why Big Mode will be a strong company. You can't just say "I'm a good youtuber, therefore this will be epiccc!!!!" The critique and content he makes aside, his point was that he plays lots of games, so he should now publish them. A TH-cam channel and personality isn't what makes a game successful. If that was the case then every shit horror game Markiplier plays would be a smash hit. Then again, I do really hope for them to benefit Animal Well as I've been impressed with the game as well.
Would be interesting to hear what some of your indie "graveyard games" are
Would be really interesting to see you make a documentary about Big Mode, using it to show what goes on in modern publishing companies and how they function behind the scenes, as you said there isn't a lot of clarity on the role that publishers have in the industry.
Oddly enough we’ve never done a doc on publishing because we couldn’t find an angle that wouldn’t just be an endorsement. We do have some stuff in the works that shines more of a light on it though.
@@NoclipCrew There's massive amounts of critisism against big publishing company's these past years but you can't find anything that doesn't sound like an endorsement? Really?? Are you joking or just afraid that publishers will restrict your access for interviews. Man talk about poor ethics.
@@NoclipCrew Isn't it already quite difficult to make documentaries about games/developers that aren't somewhat endorsing in nature? (Unless of course the subject of the doc is a "bad game" that you're interested in analysing as to why it "failed")
I suppose one way to get around this is not to focus on one particular publisher but interview an array of prominent individuals who work/have worked with various companies, although I wouldn't even know enough about the industry to know who you would start with. Ye'd know better than me anyways but it's something to consider, keep up the good work 👍
@@ReVision.. them interviewing developers removes a layer of gloss on their content. Going into a publisher - which focuses on projection and management, not development - is a different focus that NoClip has not done so far. Going to Devolver and making a video on their content choices is different than examining the creative process of creating a piece of work.
Would you interview a person buying a piece of art or would you interview the artist? What's more important to the innate subject?
@@james-andrew-adams In your analogy, the publishing company wouldn't be the person buying the art but the person who owns the art gallery that makes it possible for artists to display their art. And yes i would love to see a documentary about that aspect of the industry. But you missed the point of my previous comment entirely.
I think he's in a decent position to help with marketing and maybe connecting people for final work, like "we used some stock sound effects but I'd really like to have someone else help out with doing original ones". Obviously it has to be clear what Bigmode actually does, both for devs and for the audience. I feel like if he's up to no good somehow it'll blow up in his face quickly enough, and I'm pretty sure he knows that too.
I'm with you on a lot of this. There's a ton of people who yell about games and really have no idea what it takes to make one and that gets tiresome. I also enjoy Dunkey especially when he gets more analytical about games. I don't think that means he knows what it takes to make one but I think he's got good intentions going into Big Mode. It does put the whole critique side of his channel in a weird place now that he's got skin in the game. I wonder if he backs off of that going forward, might be the best move. Would be cool if you were able to interview him, would make for a good conversation.
With all the weird vitriol from a variety of sources when Big Mode was announced, my biggest question was if anyone spoke to Dunkey, or asked about his position or experience.
What's most disappointing about this whole thing is that NoClip could easily have asked for an interview and taken the lead on the platform to find out what their idea for the business really is.
Instead of mindless speculation, propper journalism would have been a much better way to look at an odd case like this. I respect Dunkey as a creator and love the fact he wants to help unique projects find their audience, so I'm happy with Big Mode as a concept, although I will make sure to check the games he publishes out, like I always do, before I make a purchase.
Animal Well looks amazing so far. Wishlisted.
@@SimpleArt93 this is NoClip's side channel, not NoClip itself
@@ProtoGhostal1701 I know, but I meant they could have covered this topic in their main channel, and that way we could all be clarified on the matter to avoid needless sensacionalism and negativity.
I only wish the best for Dunkey, Leah and whoever ends up being published by them. I just hope this becomes a good avenue for us who love games to find hidden gems, like Devolver Digital has been doing for a while now.
I think when you take all of Dunkeys "dunking games " content into context, he has proven himself as a legitimate critic who holds large AAA games (ones that don't need boosts of popularity) accountable for shit they put out while also highlighting games that do need more eyes. While he may be walking a line, I trust his judgment. I also am betting he will be focusing more on almost complete games for marketing / audience finding as opposed to getting in the weeds with the actual development
this is a very interesting take to me, because i've essentially entirely thrown out dunkey as valid criticism for my own decision making
the editing tricks and intentionally poor gameplay he shows when talking about stuff he dislikes, plus the insanely frustrating habit of layering actual takes in with jokes (so your fans can dismiss criticism against your video with "you just didn't get the joke") alongside stuff like his (self admitted, so no worries) refusal to be patient with a game, makes it really hard for me to take him remotely seriously as a 'critic'
@Qbopper I do think a fair bit of his specifically harsh videos are on games he loves, like no one makes red dead 2 look jankier or more broken than dunkey, but he's brought up multiple times in unrelated videos how highly he Regards that game in the areas that it excelled at.
It's definitely tough to treat him as a serious critic but some of the impressions I get from some of his jokes / bits / critiques of games tend to give me a good impression on if it's the type of game I'd enjoy / if it's flaws feel like something goofy I can overlook or something that seriously hinders my enjoyment. That's not even based really on what he says about games because some of his videos showing really broken gameplay still give me the impression he enjoyed the game. Its more so comparing how I felt about games or the janky bs I remember from them to his videos on the games.
His videos are almost always exaggerated but usually give off the real impression about he feels about the game which more times than not line up with mine. I can't exactly recommend him to people, it's not even so much that people "don't get" his jokes, more so just that he isn't really actually making reviews, he's making funny videos about the games, but the stuff he includes in the videos usually demonstrates that he has put in the hours into the game and has a depth of knowledge about it, which sometimes is enough to act almost as a pseudo-review and other times is just pure comedy .
I probably prefer Skill Up as a more traditional critic.
@@Plain--Jane Yes this Is all true but all of these decisions are also In service of entertainment. With the byproduct that you can also say it's all for jokes etc.
Things like using bad footage of a game when talking about negative criticism is just good video editing. Trying to set a tone for the video is necessary to help a viewer follow along and keep them engaged. Not using literal video editing like that would just make his videos much less "immersive" and uninteresting if the visuals didn't follow along with what he's talking about.
Video editing Is also hard work too and sometimes you just don't have the right piece of footage to exactly show or describe what you're talking about and with a tight schedule you just have to make do, which could also lead to some of the issues you talked about.
I do agree tho, sometimes he takes it a bit too far especially when taking about bugs.
I haven't delved much into this topic and the nuances of it, but I feel that people are holding Dunkeys channel to a weird pedestal. He always was some guy that made videos about his opinions on video-games, most in a comedic style. His videos are not a factual display of information that represents an absolute truth about certain video-games. They are only his opinions, and lots of people enjoy to see what his opinions are about video-games topics.
The types of games he enjoys, the ones he grew up playing and certain aspects of his personality were always biases towards his reviews. There was always degrees of subjetivity into his videos that skewed his reviews in certain ways, and there is nothing wrong about this. His videos and reviews are only that: His opinion over video-games.
I do not think he should stop making his usual videos due to his new publishing company (as some people in the comments seem to sugest is the Ethical conclusion). I Believe it should be another factor to consider when listening to his opinion/reviews.
Feels like people are treating his channel as it were a goverment body or a news media, that should be hold up to scrutiny over the type of information that they release. His new company is not a big enterprise that is trying to skew public opinion on climate change, saying that carbon offsets are a legitimate way to solve carbon emissions, for example. Dunkey is content creator that makes videos/reviews about video games (an entertainment product), with explicit subjectivity in display.
Its interesting to talk openly about this topic, as I feel it makes it easier to exercise critical thinking, as well as to accentuate that his videos are subjetive opinions, and not objective truths. As such, I don't think its necessary to worry or even boicott Dunkey if he keeps up his usual routine.
Well, at least thats my view on it. Agree or disagree, feel free to give your side on this topic. I do believe that talking about it is the most healthy way to aproach this situation.
I am reminded of Yahtzee/Zero Punctuation, did some work on Watch_Dogs 3, still reviewed it in his usual style for The Escapist. Also, working on his own game and making content for the site about it (even jokingly talked about Big Mode publishing it), the 3 Minute Review crew also have some working on the industry (KC for Ubisoft, Amy for another company) while reviewing, streaming and talking about other games and all that jazz.
I have no stakes on it other than uh "ethical consumption" but I guess... disclosure? Transparency? Water is muddy so I guess working to make things clearer should be enough I dunno.
I think disclosure can be moot when inividuals like KC or Yahtzee aren't in major creative positions at the company. KC is a community manager for R6 Siege so his role is more procedural than creative and it's not a platform for opinion, while Yahtzee's writing was for a small portion of Watch Dogs Legion whom came to the view that his work wasn't used anyway.
What about being friends with the actual devs ? Skillup and jake from gameranx are friends with yongyea and alanah pearce (one of god of war's writers) idk how I expect them to say something bad about the story
I think your comments about ignorance in the consumer side of the industry is spot-on, there seem to be very few people who know the ins and outs of game development, that don't already work in the industry. Dunkey may be smart, but his critique of games is often rooted in ignorance. And that is a valid perspective, that's a consumer perspective, so it makes sense that his opinions find a large audience. But I don't expect him to be a publisher offering a service on the same level as other experienced publishers do. Hopefully he'll learn, but it'll take time and they're potentially not going to get it right the first time.
I do think there's a fundamental problem with Dunkey continuing to dunk on games for profit *and* start a games publishing business with a financial incentive to make their own games look better than other games. It's extremely easy for him to adopt a marketing strategy to simply dunk on other games competing for sales with games he's publishing. It fits his MO and his audience. Imo, the only way for him to ethically start a publishing company is to fundamentally change the kind of content he's making, which sounds like professional suicide to me. So I remain very skeptical.
If he was just in the dunking on video games business, I wouldn't mind. It's the combination of that with his new business that irks me. If he changes his channel concept to highlight good games and praise work (instead of pushing down other games) the I'd feel much better about it. But I'm fairly sure that's not what I think is going to happen.
EDIT: reading through the comments it seems a lot of people didn't pick up on the potential ethical problem with Big Mode, which is surprising imo. Hopefully the above makes sense to them.
Great video Danny, I think you've got a good attitude discussing and thinking about these kind of things 🙂
Okay but what about dunking on the rich to make money for the poor though? If he's already getting money from dunking on games, things don't really change for him. If by doing it he can help other people, maybe being unethical is more ethical than doing nothing 🤷
@@Fachewachewa except when he dunks on games in the same wheelhouse as his published ones, where he's clearly paving a road to make his games more appealing. The worst case example would be him literally saying "here's why this game sucks and why you should buy mine."
@@docrandle Yeah but that's be pretty dumb right? It's not a random video, he has money on the line too, and idk, that just seems more risky than anything else. It's not like people who hide their connection with brands etc.
At least it shouldn't be an issue with Animal Well.
@@Fachewachewa Instead of pushing other games down in order to stand out; game developers usually take inspiration from any type of games, AAA or not, and celebrate successes among all of them. I don't see why a publisher whose (other?) business is critiquing other games is better than a publisher that seeks harmony within the industry and consumer market.
I don't buy the Robin Hood argument, shitting on someone's creative output is not magically going to make someone else's games better. It's just going to get a lot of frowns of peers in the industry. I genuinely hope Dunkey will do better than that, but we'll have to see.
@@JochemKuijpers I mean, I don't watch Dunkey so I don't know, but apparently the dunks are what people want? (and the few I've seen recently were all positive) He's already doing it, it's not like it's his strategy for pushing the games he publishes. He didn't have to do anything else than mention Animal Well to multiply by 3 its number of followers on Steam, so I don't think strategic dunking to make their games look better would be necessary or even efficient (but you seem to agree with that).
I think people should have already frowned a lot at the mention of Crowsworn being just a clone or Frog Detective being spam in his BigMode announcement video, and I don't think dunking on AAA can be worse than that. It's just that more people care about these game, because there's an imbalance. Something he can actually help fix, so 🤷 might not be perfect but it will help some indies.
From their website, they are primarily stating that BigMode is there to help you stand out and only that. I think you are correct that they are mostly there to market for you. Ethically I think that is mostly fine, if he doesn't use his Dunkey persona and channel to boost it. We'll have to truly wait and see how this plays out and what they end really providing to Animal Well
12:25 Is this a back-door pilot for the new Crew show "Danny's Mind Graveyard" where he talks about good games that never found their audience?
I'm in. Already visualizing the merch
that's a good idea and you're clearly much smarter than me
@@NoclipCrew Do you have a written list of these anywhere, at least? I'm a sucker for relatively unknown high-quality indie experiences.
It's about time some "games journalist" somewhere finally fucking said it. I grow so tired of the confident people speaking about games and weaponizing their opinion against game developers, and their audience eats it up. Then, all that bad misinformation gets propagated and because "fact". I've actually tried to correct some "journalists" spreading falsehoods and literally have been told, "so?" and "STFU. I'm done with that story." There are people IN the throws of game development that don't really know jack or shit outside of their sphere, let alone the idea of "I've been playing games and talking about them for a while, so I KNOW!" It's absurd and I'm glad someone has finally acknowledged it. More "journalists" and game critics should spend some time just attempting to make Pong or Space Invaders, from tip-to-tail. Then, they'll understand SO MUCH and stop saying shit that weaponizes their audience against us and creates an antagonistic relationship between gamers and game developers.
I think as long as he doesn’t use his channel to “review” the games he’s publishing (people will see right through that if it’s not spotlessly tasteful), power to them for trying something new.
I'm open to hearing more about what is morally bankrupt about something like this. As someone that isn't in the games industry, any negativity toward dunkey that goes beyond the obvious "Hey kid, this shit is harder than you probably think and you're going to have a lot to learn. Good luck, kiddo!" well, it sounds similar to how people in the comedy industry that have been grinding stand-up for years get jealous when new comics come around and blow up big (like Bo Burnham's success coming mostly from TH-cam instead of the club scene). What is the dubious behavior I'm supposed to be conflicted/mad about? This is a genuine question, not a defensive rant.
I genuinely don't get it either. I think you hit the nail on the head. All I hear is "noooo you're just a youtuber!! you can't do that!!!!!!"
@@Keepontakingit the section starting 1:34 talks about the potential conflicts of interest. tl;dw: things get complicated when Dunkey's trusted as a reviewer/entertainer but also has a stake in the success of the games he talks about.
Danny's not necessarily saying Dunkey "can't do that", he's saying "this is a complex situation that can go sideways very easily and should be handled with responsible thought and action"
in his Dunkey's Best of 2022 video he spends 2 minutes of the video praising the game that he is himself publishing
obviously he's not gonna say anything negative when it directly affects his income
and of course i don't believe animal well will be a bad game but right now i'm just meant to trust dunkey that his stated opinions in his videos about his own games will not be motivated first and foremost by making his games sell? when there's an obvious conflict of interest in actually treating the games fairly and making money
@@voidcaaat Fair enough but I don't really get the problem: TH-camrs have been doing sponsored content for years. He seems like an honest enough guy to mention he's biased if he's personally involved in a product/game
Most of the criticism has sounded like people are Dunkey’s parents. He will be fine, those who sign up will be fine, its no ones business but those involved.
I trully dont see where the problem is. It's not like he's hiding the fact that he publish that game, so if you see a 'critic' about that game on his channel then you know he will like it since he only publish games he like. You dont have to take his words for money.
I get it. You have a great point. It's something few people care about. And, even if you know its not how the real world works and its not what most people care about, it is an ideal you wish people should stand on, and you yourself strive for.
Don't sell yourself short, i learned about a few indie games from you and No Clip that made me go out and buy the games and support the devs.
And, for what's it worth, i admire your principles and i am of the same mind as you, as well as i admire and appreciate the work you do.
As for Dunkey, i find his content genuinely funny and entertaining most of the time. Sometimes he is even genuinely insightful. He also seemed sincere, not a shill or a sell-out. I admit i kind of went "uh-oh"when i found out he started a publishing business. It's dangerously on the verge of making him, his schtick and or persona, very ironic. 😅 But all i could do is hope for the bright side, that he means well and he helps plenty of indie devs reach more people, and that he does well but without compromising himself just for money. I hope his interest in publishing comes from something genuine, pure, a love and passion for games and not just to make money. Getting rich as a byproduct of intending and doing something good is not a bad thing at all. 😄
I appreciate you posting this video. I've had trouble articulating how I feel about this. For one, I admire the ambitions of he and his wife and I'm glad they're branching out. However critic/publisher is always a tough line to walk, much like critic/filmmaker (remember Space Cop?). My instincts tell me that Dunkey is mature enough to remain hands-off, practical and supportive and possibly represent this shady situation as its best-case scenario. However, I can see this becoming a trend with more youtuber/critics trying this with more controversial results. If you thought the workplace harassment allegations were bad before, the whole industry has the potential to become the wild west.
As a developer, it's pretty refreshing to hear someone finally say that online game reviewers/content creators don't know anything about making a game, and that there are no "good" or "bad" studios
Love the NoClip stuff!
I think good journalists set their ethics bar higher than where pretty much anyone else sets it.
The sketchy "marketing push because I have a following" is pretty much the backbone of the modern music industry now. And it went through the same phases games are going through. I'm too am assuming that the "find games that are pretty much finished" path is exactly what they're doing.
I wish there was a better pathway, but I don't think it's more unethical than pretty much every other pathway to getting something in front of our faces in a busy landscape.
Side thought:
Steam should just randomly gift people games. No algorithm, no preferences, not all of us get the same game, just random roulette. Then ask for a quick review to get another completely random game. Stuff that's actually good would stick out from that data.
game engine developer here. I have similar concerns to what you raised. It bothers me that he confidently asserted "I know what a good game looks like" as if judging a released game is equivalent to assessing whether it's worth continuing to develop a game based on a prototype. because yes, games change so much during development!
I am concerned that devs get a good arrangement if they sign with him. Do they keep creative control? Do they get a good revenue split? Are they personally treated with respect if challenges arise? There's a lot that can go wrong, even for experienced devs and publishers.
perhaps dunkey is hoping to get out of youtube or have a real plan b. BigMode separates Dunkey from his reliance on this platform and he becomes the platform. also please shoot the doc! talk to dunkey ! this story needs noclips insight and to be shared with the community
It is quite fascinating, but I wouldn’t say all that weird for someone who is obviously that passionate about videogames. He realized that this is a venture that he could take on seriously and so he did and more power to him. - I wouldn’t exactly call him a critic, however, because I always found his “critiques” very tongue-in-cheek. I mean, yea, he gives some of his actual opinions as well, but I can’t listen to him the way I would listen to say Ralph as SkillUp or someone else like that who really do expansive reviews. Dunkey’s videos will always be more of entertainment to me, even though he does make good points to consider.
As for him in charge of publishing, I think it will be similar to companies to say Devolver or something, who indeed pick up smaller and more unknown projects or studios to then give exposure. I think him and co. know what they’re doing, because that’s also a thing, it’s probably just not him alone. I’m sure also his partner Leah would be involved, for example, so people should probably lose this notion of him sitting there like a king of the castle dictating what’s good or bad or whatever people are thinking.
Also, can we stop calling the guy “dunkey” like “he’s only a TH-camr who started a publishing-company”?… I think that’s part of the problem that got so many people rolling their eyes, cause they don’t really think “TH-camrs” or anyone on internet-media is to be taken seriously. - The guy’s name is Jason Gastrow. I know he probably doesn’t care himself, but I think calling the founder of a company by some internet alias is kinda ridiculous and inaccurate. - Just saying. (And yea, I know it’s also for clarity, cause that’s what people know him by. Still…)
But, for me, in the end, I think he’s not up to anything malicious or manipulative. It just seems to me like this is a person who is following what they love and want to do more about it than just making videos. Again, he’s found himself in a position where he can do that, so he’s taking the opportunity to do so. I honestly don’t think there’s anything wrong with “using his influence”, if he even intends to use any of it (which I feel like he will keep separate and be quite professional or disciplined about, apart from potential trailers for Big Mode where he goes “only good games” as an in-joke or something), because people should still make up their own minds, and boy are actual user-reviews harsh. If the product is good or bad, you’ll hear it from the masses, not just the “dunkey”-crowd or whatever. - I’m not that worried and I think we’ll find out about some gems through this company, again, like with Devolver and Annapurna and so on indeed. - And IF there’s dubious stuff going on, the world will find out about that as well, and I don’t think that’s what he wants to happen. I just think he loves games and wants to support good and unique projects and actually do something about it.
The core of the problem is Dunkey's audience trust his _objective_ judgement on what games are good, and Dunkey publishes a game which a lot of people will think is _objectively_ good.
Even Dunkey promotes his own public image, stating that he knows what a good game is, therefore everybody should trust his judgement. He can seriously be charged with the sin of lying and deceiving the public when he publishes something that is not _objectively_ good, because everybody has already thought it will be good. "It's published by Dunkey, obviously it must be a good game!"
The fact that Dunkey becomes the judge and the promoter of games is problematic.
Like many people here have stated, to solve this problem, Dunkey must remove his public image as a person who has the authority to judge the good and the bad, and make it very clear that he promotes his own games because he has financial interests in those games, not because they are _objectively_ good (even though he might think so).
This is very well thought-out, so props to that. However, I think you're overthinking it.
I know this opinion may not be shared, but I personally don't treat Dunkey like a critic or reviewer. Especially since he can be very satirical. He's not paid like one, his job title isn't one. He doesn't get a paycheck based on his reviews. He gets paid just having eyes on him, which indirectly affects the reviews.
Dunkey explicitly talks about Big Mode being HIS company. That right there eliminates any transparency issues. It gets more complicated if we find out he's secretly publishing something without announcing it, and then tells people to go buy said game. Then you're going to have some suits step in.
He's just a guy.
Now if people want to treat him like a professional or trustworthy voice in an industry, that's on them. Frankly, any media corporation would KILL for that particular self-turn-key smoke and mirrors setup. People KNOW they are supporting his ventures directly with anything Big Mode now publishes. If Dunkey were to eventually become some sort of criminal mastermind, he's gonna need a lot more than just Big Mode. At this point he's just an investor. Why wouldn't you want to promote your investment? He can hate on games I like. Anybody can. Saying he affects sales is like saying anybody ever saying anything negative about any game can affect sales. Are we gonna have companies issuing class-actions against all negative Steam reviewers?
It is a fine line, I'll agree on that. But it'll all depend on if some greater corporate/government entity will issue a new creed that dictates that any TH-camr with an opinion is now under scrutiny of the law or BBB or FTC or what have you. That takes care of TH-camrs in the states anyway. Internationally you might be a bit more screwed.
You shouldn't really push for a world in which TH-camrs get ultimatums. "You either make funny videos, or you get to have opinions. You can't have both". And I think that's going to be the extreme case if Dunkey's move does become more of a trend. Dunkey's used to be under fire. I hope he can push past stigma if it turns out to be just a social one rather than a legality one.
That's just my opinion though.
I like the idea of dunk finding good, nearly complete projects, and guaranteeing a lot of people at least hear about them. I see good indie games having success as more positive than a potential ethics violation is negative. Esp for a guy who gives super Mario bros 2 game of the year annually.
Being a huge fan of gamespot and eurogamer ect when i was a teen to now being almost 10 years in the industry as a 3D artist, it has always kind of annoyed me hearing journalist talk about how games should be made, company politics, even when they mention the buzzwords they know about art assets ect. without having ever opened a 3D package in their lives. It has kind of made me take a step back from a lot of reviewers, and this is why i love noclip, games makers toolkit ect, because they actually deep dive talk to devs and even try making their own prototypes to understand what its like. Anyway i actually wish Dunky all the best and give him full support, i think you just triggered a rant in me :D
I think it's a great idea. So many games struggle to get attention and build an audience. Dunkey is basically putting eyes on these games and animal well is a great fit. As long as he doesn't make a fake or biased review ( i don't think he would do that), it' all good. Maybe noclip should consider doing something like this (just keep the documentaries and the publishing separate)
Spot on! I fully agree. This video is quite speculative and questioning Dunkey on ethics simply from the noise online. NoClip should done what he does best and interviewed Dunkey, info straight from the source.
I think the key thing here is "keep the documentaries and publishing separate" which is the thing that dunkey so far is absolutely not doing. His latest video came with a 2 minute ad for the game he's publishing.
@@NoclipCrew thank god you’re there to police Dunkey. You make documentaries, he makes funny critiques. You’re not the same.
There was a point when Shigeru Miyamoto was making his very first first game called Super Mario and Shigesato Itoi was just a copywriter yet he made the Mother games that are still popular today. Why not make something worthwhile instead of subtracting from others? Maybe this attitude is why you never entered game production.
@@NoclipCrew At least he makes it clear that they are publishing animal well, but I see what you mean it is a bit sketchy when it's mixed in with other games.
Bigmode's next few games will be very telling. As you mentioned, Animal Well feels like a perfect fit because Dunkey is well positioned to provide a strong marketing push for a game that is, as far as we can tell, mostly finished. If Bigmode's next title is a project that they see through from pitch to publication then that would be a really interesting process to follow and would demonstrate just how much of a "publisher" Bigmode wants to be. If that's not the case and Bigmode opts to pick up a similarly far along game that just needs a marketing boost then who knows, maybe they will have carved themselves a perfect niche.
Honestly, if there's a publisher shedding light on smaller games, I actually love this.
I'm not usually a fan of Dunkey's content and opinions but when he announced big mode I couldn't be happier and more excited for him and his partner. I know it's a big endeavor, and I think we should give them more credit, it was not an overnight decision and I'm sure a lot of planning went into it before deciding to become a publisher.
Here's all the best to them.
The amazing about this video (specially nowadays), is that you expose your ideas clearly without any bias or drama attached. Just that alone is worth mention even if you don't care about the topic, this should be studied as a standard on how to communicate in this day and age. Sincere congrats!
For me, that part that is important is disclosure.
If Dunkey keeps disclosing what games he is publishing in his videos I have no problem. And that lines up with others, like TH-camrs disclosing if they are sponsored, a reviewer if they got the game for free, or NPR if their story is about a financial supporter.
If BigMode starts to get a huge market share then more action should probably be taken. But overall it is always exciting to see more opportunities for indie game devs.
Real question comes how seriously Dunkey Leah are taking it.
1. If they are serious, they will learn the ins-and-outs themselves in order to help their stakeholders and might become legit after a few releases.
2. If they're halfway or if their commit falls over time, it would eventually hurt those who put the faith in them (although that would also hurt Dunkey's rep too)
I've been anticipating Animal Well and participating in its big community puzzles, and I share your skepticism (and ethical questions) regarding BigMode. So I think I understand how you must have felt; I was certainly surprised by the pairing when it was announced (with a video hiding a step in the most recent puzzle, too). And I hope Dunkey does a good job for the game's sake. I really do. Animal Well is release that could greatly benefit from the kind of publicity he could bring to it. So yeah; weird, mixed feelings at the moment.
Very much appreciate your thoughtful perspective, experience, and integrity.
I think what needs to happen at this point is either for Dunkey to explain how Big Mode publishing works or for the developer of Animal Well to do so. I don't have a problem with Big Mode publishing feature complete indie games as long as they're transparent about what they offer and the revenue split is heavily in the developer's favor.
I worry that this will only get more dubious as it won't get any clearer what Dunkey's role within bigmode will be and whether we can trust anything he says about the games that he has a hand in publishing as even if his opinions are honest, there's always that background benefit of greater game sales benefiting his finances as well.
Seeing him use his platform to highlight new underrated games is a positive, I just think this may also end the popular perception of him as a trustworthy critic.
I love you Danny but this comes off as a little gate-keepy and you trying to put your hands in Something that doesn’t concern you.
If Dunkey wants to try his hands at something new, let him. Then we will discuss the results. But this honestly makes you look sour about something that has nothing to do with you. 😒
I'd love to start a discussion about this on the discord (@me if somebody starts one), because this has been living in my head since the announcement too.
My biggest question when he originally announced BigMode was "what does Dunkey bring to the table?". I'm a game designer and an indie, I'm working on games, something we've talked about is publishers. There's quite a few to choose from with, like you said, essentially different styles for different people. When Dunkey announced BigMode though, I was more just confused than anything. Like, if you go with someone like Devolver, you know you're getting their QA and localization teams, you know they have contacts with all the big players to make sure you get your game in front of the right people on whatever platform you'd like to launch on, you know they have a good marketing and PR team, there's a lot of value there. Dunkey is hugely popular, sure, but outside of that, what does he bring? And that's the question that's been running through my head. As far as I know he doesn't have any crazy connections from making gaming videos (I could absolutely be wrong, I'm just guessing here). It just seems so bizarre. If it's like you lay out, that'd make a lot of sense, it's just so, so weird.
Based on the years I did spend watching Dunkey, here's my thoughts: he makes really good videos, but I don't trust him with games criticism at all. At all. I don't think the reasons why that's the case are important enough to discuss.
That's a matter of personal preference, of course, but what that means is, as much as I think they're doing this with the best of intentions, and as much as I hope for their success and the success of any games that come under their wing, I don't think it's gonna end well.
Everyone whose opinions I've come to trust - people who have actually been in the game-making pipeline - are optimistic but with a solidly planted backfoot. When I see that, and I check in with myself and find that my alarm bells are all ringing, I can't shake this feeling that this may very well end in a trash fire sooner or later.
I think we've been down this road before, since even if Big Mode as a publisher is unusual, it's not the first time a TH-camr has made a game. Game Grumps made Dream Daddy, Rooster Teeth's made and published several things, and Yahtzee has been making games and occasionally mentioning them on Zero Punctuation since the mid-2000's. All of those examples have had various levels of success and controversy (I remember Game Grumps fans making a big stink about how their informal docuseries on a bootleg Russian NES clone transformed into a guerilla ad campaign for their next game Soviet Jump Game, which had so much blowback the game was basically DOA.) Ethically, I think as long as Dunkey's upfront with the games he's promoting (as he was in his Animal Well announcement in his "Best of 2022" video), we'll be fine.
This video is the reason I watch NoClip . Really thoughtful, complex, and conflicting takes on an ambiguous situation.
Im also super excited for animal well. It was fortunate that they showed it on the wholesome direct last year. Like La mulana meets cute animals in a weird somewhat unsettling environment with a unique art style. Can't wait for it
"he didn't say that, but it's kind of out there" what kind of logic is that
You could have just, asked him your questions
It really depends on how how they handle it. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with trying to use a position you've built up to do something more. Nor do I think there's anything wrong with doing something you're out of your depth on. They'll either learn some hard lessons or fail, most likely. There could definitely be some unethical ways he could handle it, but even using his own platform to promote games he's publishing is no more inherently unethical that making sponsored content or promoting affiliates. Just as long as he's straightforward about his involvement.
From the start I figured that what they'd end up doing as their main/only thing is what it seems like they are doing with this game. Going with indie games that are mostly built and just giving them a marketing push.
I don't think they'll really get involved in making changes or anything like that, at least not early on.
If they did end up getting on the ground floor of a game, i think they'd change up the language to let that be known (rather than saying we're publishing this game, say something like we're working with X to develop this game)
I think it's an overall good. The more big singular voices with audiences that can give attention to indie games, the better.
honestly, i dont really like dunkeys videos, never really have for whatever reason, but i do like the way hes handling this whole thing.
the announcement video sounded like, to me anyway, that he was taking the approach of "you guys know what my opinions of video games are like, im going to be a publisher for games that i think are good. if your tastes line up with mine youll probably like what im publishing". he seems like a good enough guy that the ethical concerns of him being a "reviewer" shouldnt really be too big of an issue. hes being pretty up front about what this whole thing is. its just a way for him to give games that hes excited for some extra money and marketing.
What's really unique about Dunkeys presentation as a "critic" is that he's open about the facts - he has preferences and talks about them and doesn't hesitate to suggest following someone with preferences you share. He builds trust because he is both open and honest about it. Something a lot of other critical sources fail to build. Another good example was Arstechnicas Mac OS reviews.
This will be an interesting wait-and-see situation since all he really brings to the table is clout. I hope you continue to cover it as things progress since it's a somewhat unique opportunity to observe a new, fairly green publisher try to learn to walk.
I guess it never entered my mind as an ethical question for me because I personally can easily put Dunkey in the entertainer bucket. Yeah, he has opinions and critiques of games but I think since he obviously misrepresents games for humors sake often enough that I can't take him seriously as a 'critic' so I don't give him that credibility or responsibility in my mind. Some people do, until he does what he does to a game they like (Xenoblade etc).
I think TH-camrs using their platform to get the word out on smaller games is a great use of their audience, I guess investing in them financially is just the next logical step for many. Whether that offers ethical questions depends on the TH-camr and the person questioning it I guess, as it is a lot murkier than a press outlet doing the same. As long as no one tries to maintain an air of objectivity while promoting a game they secretly get paid from. That was (is?) more common in the days of influencer marketing, and as long as the game has a BigMode sticker on it people should know to take Dunkey's word with that in mind.
For me I think it was that initial video he put out, I couldn't tell if it was a gag, I dropped off from Dunkey after that one Yooka Laylee video where he made a joke about it being made in Unity like its a bad thing, which made me have a lack of faith in his understanding of game development, if this works out, good! I really does hope it benefits developers more than anything, it really depends on how much involvement/say he has, only time will tell
I don't think this video is very necessary as a reviewer and as a publisher there is a clear difference but you have to ask in the first place if dunkey wants to publish a game that means his opinion on that game is very high. So that means his opinion cannot change if he publishes a game rather whether he publishes a game or not is based off of his opinion. Ethically I see nothing wrong with this he's not going to be a sellout and has full transparency with how much he is actually involved with the games he is publishing. I see nothing wrong with him using his channel and his voice to market a game even though he is a reviewer.
While it remains to be seen how well he and his (their) company will handle the more complex business side of things, I think your chair analogy sums up my thoughts pretty well. The man knows a good game when he sees one, or at least one that he likes, and if he can find an audience for small productions that would otherwise slip under the radar I don't see much harm in all this.
Discovery is hard and we need more companies like devolver, new blood and raw fury etc.
I find it so hard to take Dunkey seriously as a critic bc he keeps meandering between being straightforward and satirical. I remember he made a video about Metroid Dread saying it was “a piece of crap” where he would speak in a sarcastic tone the whole time but say criticisms that weren’t really jokes.
I can’t see him as a critic bc ppl can’t tell whether he’s doing a bit and/or when it ends. The populist thing is also spot on bc he constantly feeds into bad narratives that reinforces people’s worst habits about the games industry.
If Bigmode focuses on publishing indie titles, they should have a lot of room to only pick games they believe have potential. AAA publishers often end up having to publish unfinished products, which costs a lot of trust with their fanbase and has lead directly to their bad reputations. Dunkey has made plenty of videos where he critiques universally panned games, but he has also made videos about games he loves and is clearly trying to convey his love for the game. Some of my favorite videos are when he picks up a AAA game, (often made by Nintendo), he starts trying to pan the game and make silly jokes, and then starts to enjoy the game instead.
His show is about playing and finding good games, big or small, and falling in love with them if its good, and making funny jokes panning the game if its bad.
Personally, I don't believe Dunkey is the kind of person to push a bad game to his fanbase just for a quick buck. He can make a quick buck just by making funny jokes about terrible, obscure, decades old titles from the N64 or earlier. He can make a quick buck by promoting a new piece of merch on his store. I trust that Dunkey started a publishing company because he sincerely wants to push the industry forward by placing skilled devs onto a stage where their deserving work can be seen.
I’m a little confused on the issue.
Maybe I misunderstood something about the whole process, but if it’s about advertising, I don’t see why it’s morally wrong for a popular TH-camr to use their platform to promote a product that they have a hand in. We don’t know how big dunkey’s hand is, or what it’s doing, but on either side hypothetically if he made the whole game, or just paid to publish it, I don’t see the moral issue.
I don't think I've literally ever viewed Dunkey videos as anything but entertainment and satire. There's a tonal shift when you can tell he's talking about a game he really loves, but he's a comedy channel first.
Regarding business, there's plenty of games personalities who get involved in games development. Said personalities have shared plenty of takes on podcasts, streams, etc...I don't think it hurts the efforts of the new project. I'll still look for MULTIPLE qualified user and critic reviews of any title from Big Mode. What Big Mode gets a jump start on, is they have the marketing platform that most publishers would die for.
As long as he discloses that HE'S publishing it, there's no issue. Its the fault of anyone who blindly ignores that association if they choose to only trust a single-source for info (dunkey).
+1 on getting an interview with Dunkey. I'd love to see y'all chat.
As long as the games make me feel like I’m goin big mode
Really appreciate the genuinely well thought out points in the video. It feels nice to see this side of Noclip!
When it comes to dunkey, I feel that promoting a game you are helping develop on TH-cam is very common. All the gamedev youtubers are essentially doing that. Using the relationship with their audience to reflect well on the game they are making.
It's true that dunkey has a less obvious connection to his games then the typical game dev youtuber. But in my eyes, it is not that big of an issue. Of course he will make a video about it and people of course trust his opinion. But unless he purposely misleads viewers by ignoring the fact he is publishing (using humor this could be done easily) it would be alright for me.
Also this was bound to happen given how like you pointed out, publishers have less and less to offer except marketing know how. As well as how discoverability has become everything both in games and any media around the world. People's eyeballs is what everyone wants. Him and all other influencers have it and making a large business out of it has become a norm on youtube.
between this and your discussion of the new harry potter game in the recent podcast episode, it's clear that NoClip is one of the most grownup, thoughtful, valuable voices in this industry. please never change.
One thing not touched on much here is the publishers role as a financer. I would hope Bigmode fronted them some money to allow the devs to take their time and finish the game right. A lot of indie devs rush their games out the door cause they can't afford to continue development with no income. Also I wonder what their cut is. Ethically I don't think their is anything wrong with using your brand to promote a game and make money. But are they asking for 5% or 50% of the games revenue? Too often large publishers really take advantage of indie devs who are either desperate or don't know any better.
I think the bigger issue is also that when Dunkey announced BigMode, a big part of it was Dunkey doing some game design work because he ‘knows what makes games good’. I think it’s fine with Animal Well since the game is effectively locked and just needs the final marketing push. But as Dunkey starts to advertise games that he is guiding the design on it will become a lot yuckier - and those games might suck. Hopefully the success of Animal Well helps bigmode steer clear from attaching itself to projects too early and getting too hands on with the design
This video precisely describes how conflicted I felt by the announcement myself.
On a side note, I also do think that a big part of the potential issue is how we perceive dunkey. He’s kind of tried to set himself apart from mainstream critics and publications in the past but some really do treat his opinion as gospel which complicates things. To some, he’s just an entertainer, but he obviously holds sway over consumers purchasing decisions, whether he intends to or not. Making funny videos shitting on Ubisoft, JRPG’s, buggy launches, whatever is fine and funny in of itself, but when if you even just put it next to Big Mode announcements, even if they aren’t even remotely competing in the same ballpark, idk things get a tiny bit weird to me.
It’s nothing worth getting up in arms over, obviously. I think there are far more “shady” things going on elsewhere in the gaming industry, in fairness to Dunkey who either way is also putting his money into cool indies that otherwise might’ve not seen the light of day. It’s a weird line to cross though, and it could theoretically get worse in the future.
I'm slightly worried that Big Mode will sell devs on publishing services for which they don't have the expertise, causing their games to underperform and devs to fail who would otherwise succeed.
I've never even heard of Dunkey before this video, so I have no other context on what his channel is like. As long as a TH-camr/Reviewer is upfront about their financial investment in a product (being paid or otherwise) then I don't mind them posting about it. What I care about in the end is if I find their reviews reliable and relevant to my interests.
I'm a developer looking to start up, having a publisher support your project can never be bad unless they RUIN the project actively.
Never really thought about the ethics of it since I don't watch dunkey and didn't think he really "reviewed" games. I suppose there is a clear conflict of interest there, but at least it's out in the open and in my opinion, that goes a long way to making it ok for him to publish games. It's probably not a perfect scenario, but I don't see how it can be avoided if he wants to do both. It would definitely be way worse if there was no disclosure.
I still question the longevity of an influencer like dunkey. He's been around a long time but it's hard to imagine he'd be making TH-cam videos until he retires. I saw this less as a way to make MORE money and more as a way for Dunkey and his wife to have (hopefully) a stable income that would allow them to move away from producing video content as their primary source of income.
Edit:
On a side note I understand where your coming from in feeling that what they are doing may have a dubious side. But maybe my opinion on Dunkey could help ease the mind. I watch every video he releases just like I watch noclip. I love his content but I don't always agree with it because I can form my own opinions. Sadly, it doesn't seem that's a skill everyone holds these days. But there are many fans who understand that Dunkey's taste in video games isn't the end all, be all of good games. I'd go as far as saying I only agree with 30-40% of his opinions. But I don't watch Dunkey because I think he has good taste in video games or because I expect him to show me good games. I watch because he is the Adam Sandler of the video game side of TH-cam.
Danny's gift is to be able to make an interesting video out of topics that I have absolutely zero interest in.
it can be a game that I know I'll never like or play, and the video will still be great. Or a video about a TH-camr I've never heard publishing a game I've never heard of.
I very nearly skipped over this video but glad that I didn't.
He should be more than welcome to promote any game he wants so long as he's transparent about his motivations
the first half is so generally speculative that i feel like it's mostly about influencers in general getting into publishing and less about dunkey specifically
there's a palpable apprehension to the concept, but every time dunkeys name is brought up it's 'we don't know if he'll do this' or 'i think they might do something like this'
and that interests me more, because you use the term 'ethically dubious' a number of times, but i'd like to hear you follow that line down further
because to be frank (i wish i was frank) i just don't get from the outset why it's particularly dubious conceptually, like is it less dubious for a rich person who owns a hockey team that knows nothing about this stuff to get into it? what would be the perfect kind of person to get into it, and how does that differ so incredibly from an influencer that ticks every box that dunkey did?
im hoping that maybe after like 2-3 games published and mentioned on dunkey's own channel, the publisher itself on whatever other social media has enough of an audience to not have to rely on youtube shoutouts. if bigmode eventually gets to stand its own ground separated from dunkey, i would respect it
I've watched Dunkey for over a decade now and still like his content (admittedly a bit less so these days). My biggest worry is that Dunkey seems to have an inflated sense of competency and knowledge when it comes to game dev, more so than most critics. This leads him to making occasional bizarre criticism that flies in the face of extremely basic tenets of game design (see some of his Overwatch balance critiques).
I think Danny hit the nail on the head; the most obvious way BigMode can be profitable is if Dunkey unethically uses his platform to simultaneously critique and promote games. Based on his announcement video, I don't think Dunkey has much else to offer in the way of production expertise.
I don't begrudge any indie dev in the slightest who can get this massive boost in exposure with such a deal, but I do believe this is going to be ethically compromising for Dunkey. It would take massive, constant disclaimers and content separation to navigate this type of situation with even the remote chance of remaining ethically uncompromised, if it is possible at all. I just don't see that happening.
I personally don't think of Dunkey or any other TH-camr who reviews games as a critic. To me they are entertainers who are not bound to give me an objective/ethical review of something but simply entertain me.
What is the point of this video? You just sit and talk about what he could've done that you would've disagreed with but it turns out he did another thing? And this video is posted months after he done said thing?
what a waste of time of a video jesus christ
Yahtzee is also making a game. So what? I don't get the problem at all. The only problem is that people will have high expectations of their games, because they are critics.
Furthermore being a publisher does not make you a developer, you just *publish*.
Looking at how influencers promote games with sponsored streams or referral links or whatever: announcing to the audience that you ARE the publisher and you DO own a stake in the game is only making it more clear what that relationship is. So in that way this is an improvement.
Looping back to the videos he makes on his Dunkey channel now though: you'll never really know if dumping on Overwatch 2 is part of his marketing strategy or not going forward. So it weakens his identity as an entertainer (or whatever he is). He COULD abuse the audience from this position, and some people might say that's already enough to cross the line, which I understand. I would wait until I feel it as an audience member though.
Other TH-camrs are doing this too by the way, BlueDrake42 releases games with MicroProse and Dr Disrespect seems to be co-bankrolling some development company to make a game named Deadrop. I think these audiences haven't cared one bit, but to me: watching their emphatic and emotionally charged videos about this and that game with the same voice that they promote themselves feels sleazy.
I don't really understand why this is such a big issue. As long as he doesn't review the games he's publishing, it's w/e imo. You mentioned how unethical this is, but I don't see it honestly. It's not like he heavily relies on Big Mode for income since he's got a big TH-cam channel and merch already. In my eyes it just seems like he wants to give spotlight and financially support games he really likes.
So in music, a producer is someone very hands-on, a musician in-and-of their own right, and is hired by the band and/or the label.
In games, what we call producers functions as the label, AKA the promoter.
In both music and games, the label if you will can find and nurture talent, but they aren't making the music or the games.
And the roles game labels perform is not organic, it's a weird creative-business-personal decision, some game promoters doing more for/to the game than others.
This makes this discussion full to choking on assumptions on everyone's part, and difficult to untangle without knowing the kind of specific business arrangements we aren't often privy to.