Yet again another Warranty subject, this time we say NO, what do you think?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- We have a tough job today but instead of saying no we can’t be defeated, also we get 3 chancers but this time it’s a definite NO, what do you think?
Make the customer aware and state that warrenty starts when paid, another good video
You’ve drawn that line in the sand and clients are aware of the time period. Stick to your guns and stay consistent. If you vary past the warranty period for some, it’s not out of the realm that someone will test you in court and prove your warranty is flexible and you loose.
It’s not about winning court cases it’s staying out of them since it’s more expensive paying lawyers than just buying an engine.
12 months from invoice date is the only fair way to start the warranty. What the customer does with the engine is down to them. Love the channel guys.
Twelve months is the cutoff.
Totally down to the customer to check the engine within the warranty period!
DO NOT MOVE ON IT.
The warranty
Is the warranty
Is the warranty
NO IF'S, AND'S OR BUT'S.
It is infuriating when a product packs up just a couple of days out of warranty, I had that happen with a watch recently, thought they'd just overlook and replace it, it didn't have a mark on it, I'd only worn it 3 or 4 times and you expect an expensive watch to last a few years but nope, they refused to help, nearly a thousand bucks up my shirt, but yes, I accepted the warranty when I bought it, can't argue .. can be upset though.
Yeah, nevermind the customers statutory legal rights.
Can’t wait to see that lovely Lotus twin cam being worked on Lee.!!
Warranty is 12 months from invoice/collection date, simple and fair. 👍
On your website, quotes and invoices add a clause that states: WARRANTIES: 1. Labour Warranty is 12 months from the date that the invoice is paid.. 2. Parts Warranties, are set by the individual parts suppliers. 3. Shipping: If your engine or parts are damaged during shipping, please make an insurance claim against the freight company.
I'm looking forward to seeing what's inside the Lotus myself
I agree with 12months from invoice, as how do you know what condition the engine has been stored since it leaves your possession
Any racing motorcycle engine I built I gave no warranty. If it was a standard engine I gave 12 months from the day it was collected. I often would help if it was just outside outside if it was faulty part or my cock up ( only a few in 30years) it certainly helped my business in the long run
For those who are curious, up country is just north of Morocco.
@BarumEngines
To get those other studs out a bit easier, get a high capacity automotive battery, preferably over 650 cold cranking amps, and a set of jumper cables. Clamp onto the block nearest to the stud as possible, then clamp the other lead to the stud until it starts to glow. Follow up with candle wax, then try to remove.
I also use a left handed drill bit usually works a treat!!
We were discussing this only this week: two friends who had £5000 and £8000 respectively mini engine and gearbox dynoed packages from a VERY well known tuner in the 85 and 92. (Give you an idea of inflation then, these would be £30k now). Both went “BANG” in a. Serious way a) in the paddock and b) on the start line. Both were told they were race cars, no warranty, tough 😮 This level of warranty hasn’t changed in race car world…
Apropos the bent rod, a few years ago I was at my local one-man-band garage taking my car in to Louis for its yearly service. We got chatting, and he told me about a Rover 75 he'd had in with a conrod through the side of the block. The owner had gone rather too fast through a flood and heard banging from the engine. However he carried on driving and after a while the noise went away. Miracle Cure !!! Except no, it wasn't. A few days later whilst driving there was a loud bang and the engine stopped with the conrod out the side of the block. When Louis stripped the engine down, it became clear that there had been a hydraulic lock on one cylinder that had bent the rod, but ti was contacting the edge of the cylinder liner, This eventually broke away making the noise disappear, but obviously the rod was seriously weakened and eventually snapped in two.
Amazingly, the owner got a new engine on the car insurance !
Stamp the warranty start date and invoice numbers into the block 👍
As soon as the engine is out the door the warranty clock is ticking, be no different if you bought a new car from a dealer
That's legally incorrect. Getting them to do the legal thing though is awkward as auto manufacturers seem to treat customer rights as optional
Its a tricky one, but overall i think: If its not a race engine and the customer can prove the engine hasnt been fitted long at all (sat on the bench waiting the car rebuild tp be finished for ages etc. - as many probably can do because they tend to photograph and document rebuilds) and if the fault is not attributable to storage conditions, then i think you should offer some leeway, on a case-case basis ('goodwill').
Weve all heard the stories about main dealers not warranting a major failure just a couple of days outside the end of the warranty and think how unreasonable it is - and a small business like yourselves relies on (yes, not giving freebies away of course but also) the good reputation and good will pf the customer base, so you wouldn't exprct the same uncaring hard/fast response of a main dealer.
Josh @ JR vehicle services is a good guy (Joshua Reynolds) : He helps out Rob & Chris @ SRUK (Salvage Rebuilds)👍
beautiful Friday up here in Stoke and it was hot ,thanks for the video
Hi guys, I have always taken warranty start date as day of purchase, as to a years worth? If the bits you have supplied have a one year warranty then thats your help. If the supplier says 3 months, its at your cost if you say a year. Warranty should state that 1 year is on machining practices not supplied parts used to build that engine. Nightmare to breakdown Lee but your protection. I have a Mini 1430 cc race/rally engine built 11 years ago, its run for about 1 hour in that period, is it still under warranty? You need to be clear about it. Just my thoughts, others have theirs. Great vlog as always, have a good weekend and stay well.
Warranty starts from when they get their engine picked up from you, End of in my book.
The warranty is part of the price ie "as seen" is cheaper than "6 month guarantee" which is cheaper than "extended guarantee". As most folk are either misinformed or clueless as to how economics actually works *thanks to Tory/"Labour"/BBC etc fallacies, you, and other independents have to bear the burden of informing them!
I think it's fair to stick with the hard date.
The customer is made aware of this on their invoice. If they choose to wait until the end or near the end of the warranty period to run the engine, that's on them, not on you.
I used to get work done on specialty electronic controls systems that only had a 60 day warranty on the repair. When the board failed I pulled my spare part out if inventory and put that part in during the repair. When the repaired part was returned I could have put that part into spare parts inventory but never did. I returned it immediately to service to test it. Once or twice the repair didn't hold up so they made good on repairing it again. If I would have simply put it in inventory I would have had to pay again.
My point is that customers need to use their brains. If there's a one year warranty and they wait until the year has passed or nearly passed to test the work it's really their foolishness, not Barum Engine's problem.
Most of the time when a date is contested over some warranty it happens due to lack of wisdom on the part of the customer.
I feel for you. Having been involved with selling classic car engines in the 1980`s i know exactly what you are going through. A warranty is a warranty, we stated to stick to our warranty terms. On one occasion i drove half the length of the country to an engine for a very abusive customer( over the phone). It turned out he had set the distributor 180 degrees out and the carburettors had egg shaped jets. I got he engine running and came home. I know my boss gave him a bill, but i do not know if it was paid.
You must make clear all the details in EVERY warranty, and that what happens to the engine after it leaves you is out of your control. Many engine firms no longer build engines precisely because of the hassle from a few customers.
Stick to your T & C's. You could remind customers of this and suggest they postpone the engine work until such time it will be run with a valid warranty.
Barum Engines, You're amazing! I hit the like button as soon as I saw it!
Re:Warranty - it’s all about who owns the risk. Warranties are indemnities. Terms are twelve months from handover risk transfers to customer. We expect that that - which is why the savvy consumer is careful not to do anything that may void the warranty because we know after 12 months we are carrying the can.
I had a similar 'how long is warranty' question a few years back. I called trading standards for their view on the issue, and they were surprisingly helpful. Just a thought. Great vid, lads, keep it up.
Warranty starts from the day they pick it up or delivered. If they choose to leave it sitting around the garage 12 and a half months that's there problem. Love the show and the content 👌
I completely agree with what you said with the warranty. Love you guys. Have a wicked weekend. Cheers, Craig 👍🏼🙂
What? End of the Summer? This is the hottest 6th September in the Shetland Islands since 1953 ! Up 1 degree C to 18 degrees. Positively baking, it is.
Can you fry eggs on a rock though? That's the litmus test!
Love the videos Boys.
Warranty Starts from the Day you pick it up.
It's Down to the Customer to gauge when the Engine is to be Fitted, and work it around the machine shop, so that it falls well within the warranty period.
The force to bend the rod muyst be amazing.
Check out the rods on a Pro Fuel Dragster. After 1 run, the rods actually get compressed and have to be changed out. Those engines are making 12,000 HP for 5 seconds.
My friend is building a 5.7 GM diesel engine for his 82 Oldsmobile Toronado. The core engine he got had 4 bent rods. Head gasket blew and the engine kept being run with a blown head gasket until it blew the whole side and bent all 4 rods on that side. But those engines had 22.5:1 compression stock. Get some custom 18:1 pistons and custom MLS headgaskets and they'll hold up to a turbo and 30 pounds of boost.
You have to stick to 12 calendar months from pickup date. The one day over is always the tricky one, depends on customer 🤔.
You could explain the 12-month warranty but if they explain that it will not be used ask them to take a photo of the engine each week to prove it hasn't been installed. Also to check that it is the same engine, make an ID mark to be included in the photograph.
I'd stick to 12 months rigid, but put it in big bold letters it's from the date of collection. They can then decide when to get the engine sorted as part of their rebuild
My cossie is due a rebuild / refresh. I've no plan on getting it done until I've got a max 3 month window to get the car up and running.
12 months from the day they pick the engine up from your workshop, make them aware its a 12 month time line weather or not they get the engine to run in that 12 months because the warranty they might be claiming for could be a result of them storing an engine under a plastic cover outside in the weather, its not your fault if they don't get it installed and running because they are still restoring the vehicle, sometimes in business you have to draw the line and be firm.
The warranty starts the day the invoice has been sent to the customer. If he wants to pick up his engine a month later, that is his business.....
I guess we are all of one mind. From the invoice date only, no longer. All these honest Johns out there will always push the boundaries
Great channel
“Next week is going to be a nice easy week” cursed now, can’t wait to see how it pans out😂😂
3:30 An induction heater might be ideal on those steel studs, as the alloy is not ferromagnetic. Not too hot; just a thermal shock in the right spot.
The piston that was on a bent rod should be checked for micro cracks. The pisto might look fine but I'd say it has cracks somewhere in it
From invoice paid and picked up or delivered 12 months.
On the HGV side it all depends how many trucks someone has ,,1 truck no help 100 trucks and 50 on order with a threat to cancel ,you will get a engine out of warranty ,though you may be charged labour
12 months is a good length of time for the punter to get the engine running and checked out. Doesn't even have to be installed, just put on a jig.
There are always piss-takers out there, though.
12 months from invoice date Lee,most warranty’s are from purchase unless your feeling charitable
the warranty issue goes to the point i tried to made in one of the recent videos re the cleaning issue - if a job sits in some other workshop or garage after it leaves your shop who knows what has happened to it - as an example I have an engine on my bench that sat for ages after it was built - we have a local wasp that makes its nest out of sand and mud one of the little buggers has gotten into the oil pressure switch gallery and built a nest i don't know how far back down the gallery the sand and mess has got - the only solution is a full strip down and thorough clean new gaskets and reassemble - doing restorations as a hobby is all well and good but if you cant schedule things don't do it and especially don't blame others because you stuffed up with your scheduling - for eg building the engine before you have finished the body and got the thing rolling isnt good scheduling - the engine is going to sit around insects and other critters can and probably will find their way in but even if they don't how long is the assembly lube going to sit on the cam lobes ? how much oil is going to be in the bores ? if they can't schedule are they going to do a pre-oil and prime before they try to start it? if they don't and it starves for oil who wears that one ?
When restoring a car the last thing to do should be the engine, as thats the sort of easy bit.
Legally I think that the "fit for purpose" and "last a reasonable amount of time" clauses should cover them.
If they haven't installed and run the engine it should be fairly obvious when you strip it.
I would suggest that you take a deposit to cover the strip down, and record it so you can demonstrate who's problem it is.
Maybe when returning the engines there should be a seal on the packaging or mounting positions, and then they can give you a quick video call and show when it is installed.
However, I think that the terms and conditions of warranty might want some work. For instance, it would be unreasonable to expect to put the engine into storage and then use it without changing the fluids, although i expect you supply them dry. It would also be unreasonable to expect all of the seals etc to last forever in storage.
There is probably literature out there that covers that, maybe from rental companies after they put loads of cars into storage after the covid shutdown
Have stickers made stating warranty period. Attach to machined article or freight. You then are clear to stick to terms or at your discretion extend said warranty
The point is if you a part you get 12 months warranty from the day you purchased the part, simple that’s what you give.
Hi Leigh. Maybe your customers should send a signed document and or video or both of the date the engine is fitted and then you warrant it from that date for 12 months at least for the workmanship as you can't extend manufacturer warranties like that for parts used in the build.
Anything after the 12 months from collection or delivery is good will. Nothing more. Same if you bought a tv and it broke 13 months later. Its unfortunate but date of receipt is start of warranty
If there was a fault in the build that is noticeable on start up then I can see customers not being happy but it's up to them to get engine running within the warranty period.
Warranty should be from the day you inform the customer that the engine is ready for collection. Their problem if they leave it for 1, 2, 3 or 6 months to pick it up.
12 months is a generous warranty.
I agree 12 months from date Engine leaves shop !!
To be honest, I would expect the warranty to have expired after 12 months, if I had run it or not, it’s up to me to test!/ Run in, and would make sure it was the last thing to do on a rebuild/restoration, so it would be on the road as soon as I could get it there, not sitting in the vehicle for 12 months, whilst the body was being worked on. Stick to the 12 month rule, if you decide to help out, make sure it’s done and noted, that it’s done with no admittance of liability and as a good will gesture, and no warranty cover after the the repair , to me that would be far
12 calendar months sounds good; if they are rebuilding a car and show a dated photo (meta details on the Raw file show date ) of them putting the engine into the car, then perhaps be extend a couple of months.
YUP, You have to stick to 12 calendar months from pickup date...
Rules are Rules. !2 months from Invoice date is measurable and should not vary.
I've been on the customer side of this issue many times, buy something and dont put it into service for 10 or 12 months, find it not working and out of warranty. Really only thing you can do is kick yourself for not checking it earlier.
We are dealing with a guy right now in similar but extreme circumstances . He is finalising a 40 year project building a WW11 era fighter and the airframe is finished . He had the engine rebuilt 20 years ago and then had it checked and rebuilt 10 years ago . He fitted the engine to the airframe and after we sorted some ignition timing issues ran the motor . All seemed well until the engine was run with the owner present and the engine seized after three propeller rotations . 'Trouble at Mill'.......
You got to make sure its the same engine Ive seen a Audi dealer claim and get paid for a new engine by insurance company for flood damage only the n to discover they had cobbled the old original unit. They put it down to admin error. Also ive seen a JLR dealer tell a customer their engine reqs work under warranty when there was nothing wrong with it gave him courtesy car had it 3 weeks . Before he give it them he undid one of screws on engine undertray half way out. When they rang and said all done he looked at it the screw was still halfway out untouched. They obviously claimed against JLR for doing nothing.
If you had the head in the mill why not use an end mill to mill the stud flush, level and square then hit it with a center punch then start drilling. Only one axis mill? Or do you just not have mills that would be ideal for the area you had to work in?
Make sure the customer knows when the warranty date starts and ends. A couple of days past the end of the warranty date might be okay if it can be justified, but no longer than that.
The LINE is , if the engine goes BANG 1 DAY OVER the invoice date & it's the 1st time it's fitted & started up it's GOOD NIGHT VIENNA .
RUN YOUR ENGINE IN TIME FRAME. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. To many SKANK ENGINEERING SHOPS ABOUT.
Its highly unlikely somebody who is honest with a suspected engine issue doesnt sense that problem until one day over the 12 months so id stick firmly to your 12 months.....no quibbling. Now i need to check my invoice date 363 days?.....364 days? LOL
Love the cutting power of that drill bit John got for the Figaro stud.......like you say went thru like butter.......
Year from date of purchase. But flexibility is key if it is only a few days etc.
personally, i always done the engine last so it doesn't have to sit.
From when the engine leaves your premises !
😠
In this country there is no defined term our consumer guarantees act states the expected lifespan of a product
You’d be in trouble in this country
12 months from pick up has to be. If you wanted to tick all boxes you could offer to hold on to engines until they're needed for a charge and then 12 months from when it's picked up there's no grey area then if they don't want to pay for you to hold it then they lose time on their warranty
Confirm on the invoice guarantee starts from date of payment! A dealer wouldnt look at!
Wow was it amazing weather in the north today. I’ve been fed up months. We get one better day than the south. One. Day.
Been a lovely day in Bury but been watching the 1st day of the Goodwood meeting where it wazzed down all day!
Make it clear to the customer verbally and in writing that from the moment that engine leaves your shop it's 12 months, no more. If they don't like that, they're free to go elsewhere. you're a business, not a charity!
3 times just in the last few weeks! Wow, that's a lot of unhappy customers, good job you're no longer relying on local trade.
Warranty period is just that... dated rather than on mileage, so to a date, and no further.
With modified motors, they are lucky to get any warranty, as mods are often doen at owner's risk.
John to the rescue are you going to get him a cape lol
The warranty length is the time stated in the terms and conditions and not a moment more 12 months is 12 months stick to your terms
Great video as always one of the best channels on TH-cam really interesting
The warranty starts from the time the engine is picked up or delivered as you have no idea when it is going into the car!
you need to have that 'line', I would suggest you tweek your T&Cs to say 'warranty if for 12 months from the invoice payed date, that is the 'legal' line in the sand, you can then be sympathetic if you feel you need to, BUT the line is clearly defined. A pain I know, but gradually you will close all these 'gaps' and have a peaceful life!!
Anything that you buy with a warranty goes from the date of purchase. now you might keep it in the cupboard for 18 months before you use it, but you won't get it replaced or repaired under warranty if it fails after the specified date.
Twelve months is twelve months after that the warranty is finished, fine if you want to help a bit but that is purely down to you.
Lee, if you make sure they understand that the warranty is there to protect them as well you, and it starts as soon as it leaves your premises, that how ever many months you give them is the time it's covered, you shouldn't have any trouble. Unfortunately there are some people that can't get that thru their head and they will plague you till the end of time. Just be patient with them and realize that their mum didn't raise a smart kid.
I wonder if there is some sort of warranty insurance available for the delayed installation date for classic engines. A premium would be payable to put it into that category.
Warranty should run from delivery date. I worked for another type equipment supplier. We had customers come back claiming warranty years later and the equipment had never been fitted or run, but it had been stored outside and distorted.
customers need to be made fully aware that warranty starts from the invoice date,
Hi Lee I always warranty the engine 12 months from it leaves me printed on the invoice
We do electronics, we offer 2 years warranty ... but if someone sends me something for repair and it is is out of warranty but they say "oh I only used it twice" or whatever, I look at the condition and if it looks minty fresh, I sort it under warranty. If it looks like it's been banged about in the back of a van all its life, I turn them down ... but we always want to be fair. If it is something that genuinely is our fault, we usually sort no matter how old it is.
You buy pretty much anything with a warrantee, it starts the moment it's paid for. No way to monitor anything else.
Personally. I think maybe a good idea to add a bench test clause. Up to you how you'd implement it 🤔
I'll bet that the Ingenium engine that bent the rod will have a bent or cracked crankshaft !!!
12 months is 12 months but than its at your discretion, I would do it on is it good customer who have been good to work for than yeah go above for them but if there a pain don't bother
make the warranty valid from the moment the invoice is emitted, paid or not, 12 months and that's it, no "official" warranty after. If you want to help the customer after that and bonify or give him a discount, it's on you personally, and make him aware it's not under warranty any more.
Otherwise you are exposed for troubles.
Got to be 12 months from date of supply.
had this issue with some doors i made guy left them in his shed for 5 years unpainted leaning against a wall then expected me to rectify the damage and faults caused by his poor storage just can't believe some punters
24 degrees full sun in west yorkshire
im pretty sure that even after 12 months warranty in some cases a customer may have a valid warranty claim
Statutory rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect, given the cost and quality of the item. This means a consumer may be entitled to a remedy under their statutory rights after any manufacturer's voluntary or extended warranty has expired.
so lets say you rebuild an engine and a part inside has a known issue or recall which fails outside the warranty period you would have to sort the issue and may even have to foot the bill for further damage caused.
Warranty isn't always black and white and should be looked at on a case by case basis unless massively outside the warranty timeframe.
In general, after six months the customer has to prove the fault, which can be extremely problematic. In Barum’s case with engines outside of manufactures spec ( mapped etc ) how long is reasonable. ? Same goes for a brand new car but you will be lucky to get much help after the warranty period.
With that much of the stud protruding why not turn up a sleeve to fit over the stud and guide the drill on centre.
Or you could point out that your work was under warranty until what ever the date of length of said warranty and print the date it expires, So 3 years from say Ist June 2024 to 1st June 2027.
Sad to see such skilled and conscientious engineers being taken advantage of.