The fact they had the opportunity to lean into how abusive and dangerous this school is and make something somewhat dark and subversive, yet they chose to play this ridiculous world of theirs straight.They actually didn't have the ability to see the genius in their own concept. I love how twisted the school is. How they put these kids into danger, and the zealous nature of the students to be thrust into this cult of theirs. Yet they never actually gaze into the depth of their own story, it's like the writers don't actually love this world at all.
I'd argue that it's probably the reverse. We're looking at the artistic equivalent of nepotism. They thought their story was perfect as it was and did not see the potential it had to be better.
You could literally talk about this show for years and I would never get tired. This show is literally so thoroughly, invasively bad. Like there is no way you could make everything so perfectly bad on accident. It's a Gift that truly does Keep On Giving.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you don't have anyone to tell you no. Your bad ideas get in and you aren't forced to refine them into good ideas
The worst part is when you have multiple good ideas and instead of using some that can work together, you insist on using ALL of them, even if the ideas clash wrongly with eachother. When that happens, you tend to have a Frankenstein of a show, mostly when you have an inexperienced team. I'm not an expert on writing or storyboards, but I know that on that kind of jobs you tend to have creative reunions in which you and your team take a moment to think, expand and improve the ideas and story of a show. The HGS team obviously did that, but wrongly. They used the first thought that crossed their mind and suddenly, every single writer, creator included, merged their ideas into one. No question, not trying it to make sense in the lore of the show, apparently not giving constructive criticisim and therefore no improvement on the ideas... a disaster. This would be a case of "quantity over quality", and we know how that ends. I really hope that all of HGS team learn from this experience and improve in their careers. We don't know if on that team lies a great mind that needs experience to shine.
@@kamiladiaz1465 It's indicative of the "Everyone needs to matter" mindset that those people all undoubtedly have. It's inevitable that not everyone's ideas are going to work together, it's just how writing goes. But these people dont want to step on each other's toes because, God forbid, _hurt feelings_ or something happen, so they just kind of . . . mashed it all together. And it's like you said, they actually did have a lot of (even if not necessarily unique) cool ideas that could all have worked very well together and formed a coherent story that could have been passable, maybe even entertaining. Stories dont have to be cookie-cutter perfect to be entertaining, but there's literally so many things done incorrectly that the only real entertainment is just how they managed to screw up literally everything perfectly.
More like, if you fix her, you'll end up with husk of a show--no longer so bad it's hilarious and analyzable, but just boring cliches cuz it doesn't have anything that good beneath all the bads
It was made by psycho ex-girlfriends, for psycho ex-girlfriends. Especially since psycho ex-girlfriends are the type to defend this show and pull all the mental gymnastics to argue that it's good.
The analogy you gave? There's an actual term; Protagonist-Centered Morality. The good guy does something typically considered evil or iffy, but the media treats it as good or okay. But if it was done by the villain or has been done by the villain, it's shown as being bad. I'm going to use Santa Inc as an example. For those unaware, it's a crude adult comedy about a female elf named Candy who wants to be the next Santa. The series is basically her trying to get into the current Santa's good graces and get him to notice her so he'll name her as his successor. At one point, Santa is in the hospital (I think he has a heart attack) and some kids want to see him cause, you know, he's Santa. Candy is trying to get the kids out of the room, but they avoid her and go to a guy named Dave. Later, Santa says that Dave will be his successor. He explains to Candy that he noticed her hard work and was impressed by it, even being fully prepared to name her as his successor, but the incident with the kids made him choose Dave. Candy isn't good with kids and, of course, that's very important about being Santa. He even offers to meet her halfway, wanting her to work behind the scenes to implement her reforms and changes, but she tells Santa to go fuck himself and quits. The show frames Candy is being in the right and Santa was wrong for not naming her the next Santa, but objectively, everything Santa said was right. (Brief aside, she also accidentally hits Rudolph Jr. with her car and is about to help him until he starts acting sexist toward her, so Candy decides to leave him). I suppose another example (even if it's more comedic and probably not meant to be taken seriously), Spongebob. Specifically the "Bubbly Buddy" episode. Spongebob makes a friend made from bubbles and he spends his day with his new friend. Throughout the episode, Spongebob and Bubble Buddy (of course, being non-sentient) are being a pain to everyone; having people wait in a line for 2 hours to use the bathroom because Bubble Buddy was using it, making an extremely difficult order and the Krusty Krab and paying Mr. Krabs with bubble money (that also pops almost instantly), and let a fish drown when he was buried to his neck at Goo Lagoon and the tide was coming in. At the climax, a large group of people surround the pair and try to pop Bubble Buddy, but BB stops them and he up and leaves, surprising everyone except Spongebob that he was alive.
The series 24 was built on this, not only could the protagonist do something evil (generally framed as being for the right reasons and thus okay) when other side characters that are basically portrayed as good do the same things they always sufferred consequences for it.
To be fair, even if taken non-comedically, and to the most serious degree you can take a talking sponge living in a world of talking fish, having an escapade with his new bubble friendo... That angry mob was going to kill that bubble man. Granted they didn't know he was actually alive, but still, if we're making assumptions toward the morality of the scenario, those people were about to commit mob justice on some floating sentient bubble fella. 👀 ....though Bubble Buddy did totally kill that fish dude.... at least he got to experience high tide?😅...BB'd probably get charged for fishslaughter, through negligence.. [I mean if he was sentient the whole time, it really just makes that death even worse in retrospect. My man just floated above him, and watched that fish guy drown.]
14:08 Do you know why Astor keeps calling her Rhubarb? It's because she not only never corrected him the first time, but she basically confirmed that that was her name.
THANK YOU. It's such horrible writing to give her that self-righteous moment of correcting him as if she had told him previously he was wrong. What is she so mad about? She was too thirsty to even correct him once until then.
I always have taken Rhubarb as a friendly nickname. It fits her better and it's pretty. The only moment that could be seen as rude is when Astor challenges her in the trial with a mocking voice tone. And he is not sexist, he is the typical petty rich guy for everyone and everything but with an actual good heart.
It seems the writers do not understand what true sexism is, confusing it with tone deafness, cluelessness, and being socially illiterate. And Astor seems to be the idiot hero that has to shoulder all the weight, which unintentionally seems like an “I’m better than you” attitude.
On a slightly related note, I would love to see you make a video on how poorly this show treats violence. Wyverna Dretch goes on this lecture about how fear leads to violence, and Caraway even criticizes Snapdragon for using violence against Cal. However, the guardians also seem to relish being violent, as seen with Redbud and even Caraway. The job of guardians is to slaughter dangerous animals and save people by committing acts of violence. Then, when the kids do their job and defeat the dragon, the whole thing is treated as this great tragedy, even though violently killing beasts is what every guardian has done, including the children.
You know what would've been a better use of those critters in Dretch's lecture? If their personalities didn't change with their specie. Use that as a point on how people might not always be how they appear, or that you should get to know someone before you start assuming about them. ...Then again, this show also thinks that only diamond can crush diamond, so I doubt their social science know-how is any better.
@@MrAuthor3DS It isn't. Some dialogue is not written like how people normally speak. If they knew anything about the social aspect/social sciences in general, we would not have "Great job baby crone, they say that the way to win an argument is pedantically." "Maybe it's got rabies!" And "Looks like we're going to die in here after all." "Nyeeeeeh." What is this dialogue?
Whenever you have a military or police organization, you have the issue that you want them to use violence in certain ways and situations, but not in others. The fact that Caraway approved of the violence the girls used against the octopus mecha, but not of the violence Snapdragon used against Cal is not a problem, that is expected from a military organization. The death of a comrade is tragic, the death of an enemy is not, so I think that them mourning the death of the sea dragon while not doing so with a countless of other creatures also makes sense. It may be hypocrisy, but it's realistic hypocrisy. Where the show does get problematic is when Parsley's violence against Aster, Potion teacher's violence against all students and Amaryllis' magic shooting spree is apparently A-OK while Snapdragon's violence against Cal almost got him a suspension. If the academy uses some sort of logic where they approve of students having to constantly being on the watch for violence committed against them, then surely the triad would not have seen any problem with what Snapdragon did. Wyverna Dretch's lesson of fear and violence is also pointless if the show won't actually expand on it. In short, I don't think it's a problem that violence sometimes is approved of and sometimes not, rather the problem is the lack of consistency of when the violence is and isn't approved of.
I just now realized that the show tries to make you feel like this; Killing dragon that was just born: wowee pretty stars Killing water dragon: 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I like the evil triad idea. Also to the Rosemary/Aster story fix is pretty easy with what they laid out: _Two dumbasses, Rosemary and Aster, wind up liking each other. Sage gets jealous. She believes Aster is egocentric, pushy and verbally abusive, accidentally projecting these same behaviors onto Snapdragon, hurting him in the process._ _Aster and Rosemary grow tired of each other for being foolish and stupid until they have a verbal fight and realize they're acting the exact same way. It's an epiphany that allows for Rosemary to GROW from her episode 1 self when she realizes how stupidly she's been acting. Aster also realizes how stupidly he's been acting and they use the conflict to overcome an obstacle as a team, each vowing to be a better Guardian - in this rewrite, Rose is Not suddenly really awesome and acrobatic to make Aster look stupid, she's just as clumsy as she's always been presented._ _Rosemary talks to Sage later about the revelation and about the dangers of Hypocrisy, tying it into the vows of the High Guardians to become incorruptible and better people. Sage, feeling bad for how she treated Rose and Snapdragon, but unsure how/if to apologize or let it sit becomes resolute to apologize to Rose and then find Snapdragon to resolve the situation. Rose begins training in secret to become a more capable Guardian._ *BOOM Fixed Easy:* Everyone's (minus Snapdragon) doing something wrong. It's childish misunderstandings, Everyone mutually grows, and the show doesn't feel vindictive toward Aster for his straight, white, maleness.
Glad to see you back at it. Still don't get why people should complain that a Channel dedicated to HGS is still talking about it. It's like ordering a Hamburger and then being mad that you were given a Hamburger.
If it's not intended then it's not a lie. If I say the sky is yellow but I know it isn't, then I lied. If I say the sky is yellow because I truly think it's yellow, then I didn't lie, I'm just wrong.
The Sage/Aster hypocrisy is so bad because it is just so blatant and obvious. They could have probably gotten away with it if it wasn't in the same damn episode. Like it's not hard to compare the two when the two plot lines are going on at the exact same moment. Like most people would probably have overlooked it if the two plot lines happened a few episodes apart with only the most critical noticing the similarity in behaviour and difference in how the show treats it. The fact that such blatant hypocrisy could stand right next to each other and the staff didn't think "hmm this doesn't work" is telling. Also Aster is more of an implied sexist where Sage is just an outright sexist. For Aster you kind of have to read into his behaviour and if you looked into his behaviour he could just be a dumb narcissist without any real sexism. Whereas for Sage there is no question. She literally spells out that she is sexist with her words no interpretation needed. So Aster isn't shown outright to be sexist, but the show tells us he is. Meanwhile Sage is an outright sexist and the show tries to tell us she isn't.
Feminist logic in action. They don’t want equal rights, they want special privileges. They want to kill someone because they feel like it and not have to face any consequences. Our society is guilty of breeding sociopaths and we need to stop it.
I don't think it's a real term, but I'd personally call this phenomenon "Narrative Gaslighting." Telling your audience one thing, but showing them the complete opposite, I mean.
I made a different interpretation of Sage's comment. She says "the well was dry... maybe... without magic... they mutated". However, there is a line later in in this episode that further expands on this. After doing the dungeon and returning with a quest item, the healing water that is, Thyme uses a droplet of it to heal a tree. Following dialog takes place: Sage: "It's healed, but what caused the rot in the first place?" Thyme: "I don't know, but the healing water's drying up has to be connected." Sage: "Is the level of magic in the earth fading?" Thyme: "I think so and I plan to stop it!" With that in mind, I interpret Sage's comment as instead of meaning that taking healing water from the well removes magic, it's the opposite way and a lack of magic that causes the well to dry up and Sage was using the dry well as an indicator that magic was absent and then came to the conclusion that this may have mutated the creatures. This is also the implication this show makes that new magic is causing the rot. Now, this does remove the problem of the guardians destroying the environment, but not the child soldiers and threatening said child soldiers with death. Further, this also replaces the problem it averts with another. If Sage and Thyme can figure out that the magic of the earth may be fading, then so can many others and the suspicion should fall on new magic. Assuming the show really is going with "new magic causes the rot", then Sage and Thyme should have no idea about the fading magic in the earth, such and event should be unheard of since it has never been a thing until new magic was invented.
I had that impression too. But I love hearing these types of interpretations, it really hammers home how little the writers explained things and expect the viewer to fill in the gaps 😄
Bet it is because writers made their own episodes without communicating, so the one that cares about the rot plotline is not talking about it to each other.
It actually doesn't remove the problem of the guardians destroying the environment. The Guardians are one of the ones in various scenes that we see promoting and pushing new magic. If it's causing the rot and destroying the environment through it then they are still the ultimate cause of that problem by promoting such magic and spreading it around to all those people that use it and don't have any clue at all. So Ultimately with this point we not only get rid of a problem that they are causing but we actually create an additional problem with the show.
@@Quandry1 You have a point. I would say that in this scenario, the Guardians are unaware that they are destroying the environment, but they have no real reason to be so apart from wishful thinking considering that children were able to figure out that the magic of the earth is fading. Considering that we must assume the Triumvirate has their excuses as well, yeah, we're back to there being no difference between the Guardians and the Triumvirate.
@@Crystalgate the problem there is. We can't be sure what the guardians actually know. Most are portrayed as blissfully unaware of the rot, but this could be a deliberate smoke screen lie as is discussed briefly in this video to help spread new magic and the rot by association.
I feel like one of the major gaps that the writers want the audience to fill is the question of "why do guardians need to exist? In shows the TOH where everything is dangerous and there are a lot of sketchy people who are ready to take advantage of you it makes sense why you'd want to learn magic to defend yourself. And even if you're not interested and think you don't need protection you'd at least want to learn a little bit of magic. Whether it be to make your daily tasks easier or because it's part of a job you want magic is shown to have lots of use. But what about guardians? From what I've seen in this show there is no danger. There's never a moment where a dragon attacks Lyngarth, a monster attacks lyngarth, or if there are people like thieves and such that use magic for evil (besides the main evil team). Nothing. Nearly every conflict the girls face is something that they caused themselves. The crabs? Because they went into a giant cave that should be off limits. The two giant ice warriors? Same answer. The giant octopus? It was a mech suit. The demon that Thyme had to face? Well, apparently demons can't even purposefully hurt others, you have to summon them first. There really seems to be no need for there to be Heros like guardians, it more or less just seems like they should just stop going into dangerous places for no reason. These are the same rules that apply to the real world, sure there are criminals and bad things that happen beyond our control, you don't see me purposefully going into shark infested waters instead of the beach to swim. Just in general the world is a lot less dangerous if you just make smart decisions.
I would also add what part of society created the Guardians? Because their existence and their purpose varies greatly depending on who founded them, for example if they were founded by Nobles they would have very different goals than if they were founded by a church or as an arm of the military
Interestingly, this could be pretty easily answered if the story went down the route where the Triad and Baddies are the same. The guardians don't exist because the world is dangerous, but because the antagonist needs willing, skilled grunts to fulfill their goal.
To be entirely fair, it makes sense the town they live in is safe, since it's one of the headquarters of the guardians, so it SHOULD be safe....that said, considering the show never even addresses what a guardian is or does, it kinda feels like they're essentially just glorified town guards.
Thats a very good point. Most series with Adventures of some kind make it very clear WHY the group exists, whether thats because of roaming monsters or as a protection against bandits or whatever.
I remember waiting for Sage to tell the story of how Rosemary nearly failed the fourth grade because she crushed on some boy, and it never happens! It never once justifies why Sage is jealous, (which is the answer, she's a jealous lesbian) especially when she crushes on Snapdragon
There are more things the story just lies about in the overarching sense. like how everyone praises new magic as being the end all be all yet its used so rarely to solve problems despite the fact that sage is meant to be the smart mage of the group and at latest by ep 8 should be adept enough to just pull spells out of her ass. or how in ep 11 she shot actively damaging spells at the dragon when this was a subdue mission or how sage is meant to be a likable character yet, and thanks to the c-puff vid for this, acts more in line with manipulative villians. There are also things that im unsure if they are due to inconsistency or outright lying like rosemarys varying degrees of competence thyme saying shes focused on the rot yet needing forever and taking the dumbest ways to go about it, when she should also be smart parsley not actively being involved in trying to mend the rosemary sage drama from the harvest festival despite being shown to be the caring one the teachers attitude towards violence against students
@@Crystalgate right i forgot about that, because this fucking show has a selective lack of object pernamence since i dont think she even knew what happened on the boat and ep 12 had no time to touch on that it was too busy with sage moping for being the r word in ep 11. (stupid doesnt cut it and neither does new magic losing control if the wrong type of spell is shot)
Yeah and we're never too what makes old magic better then new magic that Saga keeps bringing it up, but doesn’t explain why other then “it's sacred” and when someone argues about it she whines, continues to say “it's sacred”, and/or cries away. There’s no downside to New Magic other then supposedly causing this rot but it's so glossed over you might just forget that's a thing.
@@brandonlyon730 thing is, new magic causing the rot isnt a thing the show ever brings up. its something viewers theorize about to give it some kind of drawback. its not a thing from the show itself. now if it ACTUALLY causes the rot then that would be something and then old magic being sacred makes sense but this is something for fan works, as the original never links new magic and the rot clearly enough to say without doubt that new magic is the reason. and because of that, and ep 11 just doing an asspull cause the plot needs it since there is no other sign of new magic ever going out of control, there is no downside to it. i went on a rant regarding the magic in the final lobster video cuase thats where the combining bullshit came up but yeah. new magic outright IS better by every metric the show shows.
@@Flutterdark_ About the new magic causing the rot, there is no evidence in the show that it does so, but there is a fair bit of evidence that the writers at least at one point of the story intended for it to be that way. We have implications of the writer's intention, but nothing that translate as evidence in-universe. When evaluating characters like Sage, the right call is to ignore that idea entirely and this is what all videos I've seen of this show does. It is however an obvious point to bring up when suggesting fixes.
everything you said at the beginning of the video applies to ladybug miracles! the protagonist is selfish, a stalker, uses her ladybug powers and the title for her own benefits, is the cause of several villains in the show, and has done many questionable things like going to Taiwan with her grandfather not because he wanted her to travel with him but because her crush was going there, and she used her grandfather's invitation to stalk the boy! nonetheless, the show paints her in a positive light, and calls her stalker behavior "true love". The show's creator also refuses to call her out for the questionable things she does and hopes that we just see her as a pure-hearted person who never makes mistakes. while another character who starts out as a bad person, but demonstrates likable aspects and has the potential to evolve as a person, the creator retcons EVERYTHING about her just because she happened to be a favorite character for many fans (including me!) and practically expects everyone to hate her and block everyone who disagrees with what he says! besides having a huge ego and thinking he knows how to make superhero stories better than big studios like marvel and dc! but if you watch the show, it's one hell of a lie! seriously, miraculous is a dumpster fire! and the creator REFUSES to accept constructive criticism!!
i think now, Marinette is a little better than before. Although I feel that Adrien gave the wrong impression, it was a good way to go but they had wonky execution. And Thomas didnt destroy Chloe's character because she got too popular, he did it because he...hates blondes. I can't even make this up. He hated Chloe because she's a stereotypical blonde rich girl. Anyway, I think Miraculous got a little better in what Season 3? I can't remember- but then it all went downhill again. I just hope for the best for the rest of Season 5. Also Gabriel's outfits look nasty, sorry to whoever designed them.
@@kou7191 exactly!! i hate this trop in the media that boys can't be perverted stalkers or sexually assaulting girls, but when it's a girl doing it it's "QuRkYe and funny lol"! ridiculous!! it just goes to show how demented these writers are to think this kind of behavior is ok to present to a child-majority audience!!
@@4kiyotsu.0 Bro! fans can make a better design for Gabriel!! i would say that after season 3 the show just got even more mediocre, season 5 is just ok in my opinion, but it still doesn't change the distaste I now have for Marinette.
@@laraprisma6381 Marinette fell over backwards and became a parody of herself...That's saying something she was already a parody of bad shoujo romance clichés mixed with millennial-brain. The show has to keep reassuring the audience that she's just right for the role of Guardian, but she really isn't. The only things it can keep using to justify her guardianship are her convoluted plans. Meanwhile you find yourself feeling bad for Adrien because this guy gets completely shafted by the show itself.
I think I know the term you were looking for in the beginning. I think the term for this scenario is “Protagonist-Centered Morality.” Or at least I’m 90% sure that’s the term, I remember Red from OverlySarcasticProductions using that term in a Trope Talk
It's an indicator of a Mary Sue. If the protagonist does it, it is either good/cool/badass or we are supposed to feel sympathetic for them. When someone else does it, it is unforgivable and evil. Extra points when that someone also dislikes the protagonist.
The term I've heard for that is 'Sainting'. Basically where the story, and the universe in the story seem to bend over backwards to paint a certain character as the good guy unironically. Any bad thing they do they were either deceived/tricked/mind-conmtrolled into doing. Any negative outcome is later recast as a positive thing in retrospect. Oh no.. they blew up the dam and flooded the town. Oh hey now there's a vibrant economically susntainable fishing industry and nature preserve there, so I guess it's a good thing. It's one of the powers/effects of a Mary Sue, or author insert. Sadly it is most prevalent in bad fanfiction, and many YA novels and unsurprisingly it happens in stories where the protagonist is a female, queer, or on some sort of spectrum. This is also where the author knows the audience is supposed to imprint on the character and they want to make the audience feel good about them selves but not think about themselves.
speaking of the triad actually being bad guys i had to think of ep 11, even if that doesnt really fit not only are they sending out kids to deal with a rampaging sea dragon without supervision but they also decided to send the most deadly people to a subdue mission. which isnt exactly what you do when you try to help your sister school.
I once had a thought when watching this show and watching reviews. A fix. What if the Triad and the Triumvirate were six parts of the same being (think the triforce from Zelda or the Skeksis and Mystics from The Dark Crystal). They were a primordial being who came down to live among mortals and they split themselves into six counterparts. The triad have the motif of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, and Triumvirate have the masculine ajayest version (Lad, Father, Wiseman?). They are all cut from the same thread and neither group is entirely good nor entirely evil. Since they are all the same, if one of them is killed, it also kills their counterpart. That's why they will never fight each other directly and instead declare proxy wars and use their loyal followers to fight for them. Why are they fighting? They probably had some falling out centuries ago. I dunno, it's just an idea. But it would at least make the Guardians questionable actions make more sense.
The trope you are describing here, I believe, is called " Informed Attribute " on TVTropes. Your analogy specifically is a sub-trope of " Informed Attribute ", known as " Designated Hero "
@@Impacatus I mean, in general. It's not like I ever notice when a show is using the "designated hero" trope, until or unless the internet is telling me to be hyper-aware of it. Otherwise, it just slips by me.
Ha, the Aster sexist comment is spot on. That would have been an amazing character growth moment for Rosemary because, as you said, if she saw her antics in someone else and realized that perhaps she had the same effect on others, Rosemary could have taken that opportunity to grow as a character. Heck, maybe Aster could have been upset at first with Rosemary but come to her aid in a later episode and thanked Rosemary because he came to a similar conclusion in a different way. The biggest issue with HGS is none of the main characters grow. They are perfect the way they are and you aren't allowed to see them any other way. The viewer is only supposed to hate the villains because the writers say so. Hopefully, these writers reach out to writing labs that don't tell them their writing is good because they hit diversity points and actually provide them real opportunities for growth in their writing.
Welcome back, Dave!👋 Yes, I love complainig too, and after watching this video, I remembered another moment where the show puts up this "double standards" situation. When the main girls visit the mermaids accademy there's this moment where Thyme suddenly crushes over one of the mermaids they just met. For some reason, Thyme, the coldest and most cinical in her group, instantly fells for this mermaid -whose name I don't even remember- but just a couple of episodes before (the episode in the video) Thyme says that crushes are dumb and that the only way to heal from them is by spending some time with the person you have a crush on. And that's exaclty what Thyme does with pink haired mermaid! They spend some time together (literally one scene) and Oh-! Would you look at that! Thyme is crushing even harder now! Logic? Character consistency? Karma? Never heard of those in HGS!
@@timetraveler_from_2012 I would have accepted that if Thyme had experienced some form of character development. But she said that crushes are dumb and then got a crush over pink mermaid in the span of like two or three episodes. That's not enough to make a character go from one mindset to another. Tell you what, it would have been better if they just stated in the show that she was wrong. "Girls, I was wrong about crushes. I was just being my grumphy me" There. That's something more similar to a character growth.
That moment could've worked as a character development moment for Thyme if one of the other characters called her out on her behavior towards the pink haired mermaid and Thyme deciding to get either defensive, accepting, or in denial about it. Something small, along the lines of Parsley: "who was it that said crushes were stupid?" Thyme: "Shut it." Something like that would've pointed out the contradiction and served to develop Thyme's character and possibly serve as relationship building between her and the other character. Sadly, like most things, this possibility for character development just went right over the writing team's head.
Watching your High Guardian Spice videos helps me as a writer to be more aware of what I’m writing and whether something is too OP or actually makes sense. I’m GLAD you’re still talking about this show. Also glad you’re feeling better ^^
I actually found HGS useful. When I'm drawing or writing I find that playing a show/film where the characters don't think helps me think. After watching HGS I came up with a way to change the story and extend it to 4 seasons.
@@michaelawesome1864 I swear I can't tell if it's sarcastic or not, the first one sounds sarcastic but also somewhat genuine, and now I'm just confused
This video confirms that Dave is a Food. Don't believe me? The opening clip is Vegeta, being used to represent Dave. Vegeta's name comes from Vegetable. Vegetables are Food. If Dave is represented by a Vegetable, which is a Food, Dave is a Food.
Good use of 'WandaVision' to illustrate your point about how the main character may seem like the hero, but after doing bad things out in the open without anyone questioning their actions, they're actually the villain. While the supposed villain is actually doing good things.
I actually like the idea of a story where the good main characters are unknowingly working for the villains. Because they're relatively young they never properly piece together the connection between the actions those they've been working for and those they're fighting against are almost identical. Eventually one day someone slips up and plants that seed of doubt in one of the main character's minds and they start questioning things more and more, but because the others didn't find this out themselves it sparks tensions between them until the truth finally comes out and they either stop working for the villains or stay undercover to foil their plans from the inside. Man, if only someone had written that story instead of this one.
You know...this is like Pocahontas done wrong. In the movie, both sides are flawed and closed minded. There is a clear villain manipulating 1 side but the sides as a whole say and act the same and are misguided, best represented in the song "Savages." "Dirty, shrieking devils!" "The pale face is a demon!" "They're not like you and me, which means they must be Evil!" "They're different from us, which means they can't be trusted!" And both chant "Destroy their evil race, until there is not a trace left! Now we sound the drums of War!" High Spice Guardian is the same...but they fucked it up.
I almost want to make a show like this show, but actually done right, at least in my opinion. Rodriguez had some good ideas but no one made him actually fix them into great products.
It's funny you mention how many rewrites are going on. I'm working on one of them. I really liked the Triad = Triumvirate idea so much I tried to see if I could overhaul mine to fit it in; only to realize that what I came up with in its place was actually stronger, and adding it would only fuck up my themes because I decided to still go hard on politics. This show is such a trashfire that it's easier to scrap major portions than to fix everything.
Yeah, I've got technically two rewrites going on. The Danganronpa High Guardian Spice one where it's the reverse, the triumvirate are good at the very least, going against the triad and guardians, though a third faction are the true heroes, but they kind of work with the triumvirate so they're connected. And then my other rewrite that's closer to an actual rewrite, where there technically is no overarching villain, but the guardian school isn't exactly "clean" either. It's the rot that's the true villain.
You're right about the lying not being exclusive to HGS. I think enti-heroes and villains have been built up so much over the years, that some of the younger writers idealize and look up to THEM vs. the supposed to be heroes. So when they go to write "Hero" stories, they completely miss the mark because they have been emulating 'sympathetic villains' and thinking their "heroes" are sympathetic by being "flawed". I like seeing heroes who have room to grow. In Spider Man and, a more modern version, Ben 10, the main character gifted super powers initially uses them for selfish gain. They don't continue using them for selfish gain in the long run (not that they won't use their powers out of the super hero gig, but not in a grossly unfair manner) and wind up not a simply reluctant hero, but someone willing and able to answer the call whenever there is trouble. Fundamentally, that's what heroes do - they step up where others shirk back. My Hero Acedemia's Midori is an excellent example of an actually heroic character. Without power, he is willing to stand up against someone he has no chance against, not to save a friend - but his arch-rival. The Guardians here are not heroes, are not heroic. Not demonstrably so.
It’s such an itch in the wrong spot to remember that Rosemary literally confirmed her name to be Rhubarb when she first talked to Aster. Which is why she honestly has no reason to be angry at Aster when she herself didn’t even try correcting him when she had the chance in the first place.
Marvel has definitely been guilty of this as well as the recent Star Wars stuff coming out of Disney. Where the characters do some questionable to shitty things and it either gets ignored or down played massively. Another case is that certain plot point (WW sleeping with Steve while he is possessing someone's body) in Wonder Woman 1984 which should be a massive issue but the movie doesn't seem aware that that just happened and moves a long. How that got past the entire production process is beyond me.
Especially when it isn't important to the story or characters. It's such a bizarre addition. The exchange given for him to come back was already her powers weakening, so why wasn't he just back in his own restored body? It's such a bizarre writing choice.
Welcome back! About Parsley smashing Asters foot. This moment makes me switch Parsley's and Aster's character ranking. Also Sage seems to be more of a chauvinist than Aster. Especially in the end, Aster at least gives Rosemary credits and praises, while Sage's apologizes to Snapdragon only after she sees Rosemary is angry with Aster. Animation error, or rather storyboarding incompetence in this case, at 13:40 judging from the blade angle and the direction the strikes land, the first strike should have made a hole in the practice dummy and the second should have cut of its arm. (No wonder that Aster thinks something is wrong with the blade. :D) Or who knows, maybe the storyboard artist were specially instructed to draw nonsense for the shake of the story. It's hard to tell when you're dealing with such high levels of incompetence mixed with malignant intention of some of the writers (kill all men).
11:06 Now that I think about it, what if the Triumvirate and the Triad we're just the same 3 individuals who use Transition Magic to disguise themselves? Caraway says you need about a potion a month to keep the transformation up, but he never says what multiple doses within that time will do. Maybe it would continue to switch you back and forth between a Male or a Female form, Caraway probably wouldn't do so himself because he wouldn't want to change back into his original body. So what if the 2 groups were actually the 1 group, wether they be Men who turn into Woman or vise versa I'll let you decide. This could explain why the Guardians are so incompetent, becuase the Triumvirate/Triad(or as a like to call them The Triumviriad)would be making sure the only real threat to their plans are a bunch of ether stupid kids or insane adults. Most of the kids die or leave, and the adults are too busy spewing useless/stupid inspirational quotes to seem wise when they're not killing the students themselves. Everyone else ether doesn't care or has no power to stop them(like the people living in the Fairy Woods)so they only would need to worry about Gurdians. The explanation on why could be 1 of 2 scenarios. 1: A couple centuries ago the Triumviriad realized the Gurdians we're the biggest threat to them so they infiltrated the school to make them all incompetent so no one could challenge them. Meaning that at one point the Gurdians actually were a competent group of individuals. Or 2: Which would be the Triumviriad started the school in the first place and propped being a Guardian up as one of the best things ever so anyone who wanted to change anything would decide to be one, therefore giving them direct control over whoever would want to foil their plans. They would purposely pick stupid people who had no promise over actual competent people to make sure that anyone who got in would be an idiot, like Rosemary. Therefore insuring that anyone who survived the hellish training would probably go on to screw the world up even more or probably become a teacher and start the cycle over again(possibly both). This would be a pretty neat Plot twist, but then again this is HGS so we all know for a fact they wouldn't do anything that required actual thought to be put into it.
@@SweetOrangeGirl Probably yeah. People only seem to want people they like to be shown in a good light, and whenever you make a villian who is diverse they scream that your some kind of Ist or Phob. So diverse villains always ether get redeemed or it's revealed that they never were evil to begin with. Like everybody has the potential to be a bad person, no matter who/what they are. I'd for sure like any kind of representation, wether the character is a good bad, it would allow for so much more creativity. But nope we can't have nice things
@@allforone3427 Exactly. It’s almost like that one time people freaked out over that Jeffery Dahmer show on Netflix being put in the LGBTQ+ section (even though he was fucking gay himself).
Snapdragon and sages interaction gets further muddied by snapdragon being gender questioning. It makes it feel like the show writers genuinely feel like what sage said was actually objectively truth, and that the only reason SD was mad was because he's more effeminate, not because sage was being sexist.
Sage either implied that men are inherently incapable of making emotional bonds and if they do, they're secretly trans, or, because Snap doesn't understand how "real" girls feel, he wouldn't relate to them even if he transitioned - It's awful either way and the show had a VERY black and white view about it.
Who WAS a girl when the friendship was formed. This is what I meant when I say the interaction gets muddy. The gender politics of the show actually make it unclear what the intentions are. It genuinely feels to me like the show writers agree with sages statement, and that the queer characters are the exception to the rule BECAUSE of their queerness. But that's just my assessment
@@TriforceChad That's not how transgender people work. He was a man all along, just born in a female body. besides you then gotta stick with "caraway was born a female so he is allowed to have emotions" or "Snapdragon is becoming a girl and that's why he's allowed to have emotions"
While I love RWBY (not as much as I used to), I have to agree with this statement. Of course, you might piss off the really hardcore RWBY fans who will defend this show to no end.
RWBY was one of those shows where you saw it during the first season and thought huh this is seriously flawed, but I can see the passion and it could be really good if they improved. And then they never improve and rather it just degrades over time just leaving you disappointed. I would say HGS is much worse than RWBY though. It would be like taking RWBY and taking out all the things that showed potential or were good and you'd be left with something akin to HGS.
As a long time fan of RWBY, I have to admit, I like it more because of the potential than what they actually gave. I do truly like RWBY, but it has always felt more like a series of ideas that then never get expanded upon than anything cohesive. That and a lot of stuff gets used for the "rule of cool" and then promptly forgotten. Remember when Weiss sped up Blake using glyphs? Remember when almost every single slash from Blake was inexplicably a ranged attack for a volume (2)? So yeah, while I like RWBY's ideas, I do agree with a lot of the criticism that the execution of said ideas was not particularly good.
@@SweetOrangeGirl I could agree as well I’ve been binging the show for quite some time but dropped out after getting a sample of season 7. And after watching videos criticising the last 2 seasons and current actions of CRWBY, I’ve developed a distaste for this kind of writing. Which makes finding good crossover fanfiction for this show nigh impossible.
10:45 the funniest part about this to me is i have never watched this series before but i’ve been watching your reviews and such on it, and when you talked in your review about the triumvrate (or whatever its spelled as again??) i genuinely got them confused with the triad, i just thought they were two different names for the same group/organization- so uh i guess that proves your point?? LOL
I've been subsisting listening to a lobster themed TH-camr talk about HGS. His videos were good, but so glad that you're back. Hope you enjoyed your time off.
What would have made a better season finale twist: the Guardians are kidnapping children and locking them in a fantasy life simulation to harvest some sort of essence from them. The Rot is a virus that was planted by the actual heroes, using it to break down the program and liberate the kids.
The movie where I noticed this "the movie is lying to you" thing most is in Frozen 2. They made Anna the queen and tried to make it seem like she was gonna be a great queen, but in the finale they had her basically destroy her own kingdom. She had to tear down a dam because some spirits were pissed about it, and it was gonna create a flood wave that was gonna wipe out all of Arendelle. The only reason why it wasnt, was because Elsa was able to make it to Arendelle and stop it (no clue how she and Nokk managed to go faster than a flood but o well), but Anna couldnt have known about it and she thought Elsa was actually dead. Anna should have known that a flood would have destroyed all food, tools, firewood and basically anything of use, so even if the flood didnt directly kill anybody, it would have killed the whole city by starvation and cold temperatures (it was set in the autumn, just before winter). She was basically willing and able to kill her own kingdom, that isnt the act of a good queen but everyone gloss over that...its like they dont realize how devastating a flood is, specially in the era when Frozen 2 is set.
What personally annoys me about that movie (beyond the fact that it is clearly a work in progress, not a finished product) is that at the ending, they present Anna as so regal and poised. She's.... not. There's no way that she would just instantly be a perfect queen. As the "spare", she likely didn't receive extensive instruction on how to rule well (at least, not as much as Elsa would have), and throughout both movies she consistently makes decisions with her emotions. She's also rather impulsive. Loving your people (an explanation I normally see when people talk about what a great queen Anna will be) does not automatically mean that you will be a good leader. You can be a caring, affectionate person without having any of the qualities of a good leader. In all honesty, Anna will probably be a terrible queen. And, this minor hill that I will die on, she is not nearly as collected and poised as she was in the ending. They changed her personality just to portray her as a good queen. She won't be.
@@LittleMezzoBird oh a soulmate! Yes, indeed. She consistantly makes horrible decitions! I do like her dress but it looks like they tried to out do Elsas coronation, they clearly favour her. And it also goes against what Anna and Elsa are supposed to be design wise, Elsa is supposed to be the glammy, sleek, movie icon, while Anna is supposed to be the poofy, frilly girl next door. What are they supposed to be now? Hippie and buisness suit? The movie would have been better if they instead had reconnected Kristoff with his family(original desing hint to sami origin), and if they could have taken some inspiration from Once upon a time... now that was a good sequel! Not perfect, but it was good!
@@Sakuyamon Frozen II pains me. It fell so far below the hype they generated with the marketing (the marketing which seemed to indicate that it would focus more on Elsa), and it was a mess with no clear direction. What makes it worse is some of the stuff they were trying had plenty of potential. Here's what I see that they were trying: 1) Elsa is not at home in Arendelle, feels she doesn't belong. 2) Elsa hears a mysterious voice that might or might not be connected to her powers. 3) There is a dark secret about the past that must be discovered. 4) There is some great danger threatening Arendelle. 5) Kristoff is trying to propose to Anna. 6) Olaf is struggling with the idea of change. 7) Anna is afraid to be alone. Of these various plots and subplots, the only one that was properly pulled off was Olaf's. Kristoff's just took up valuable space that could have been used for something else, in addition to demonstrating that Kristoff and Anna are nowhere near ready for marriage. Everything else was kind of just jumbled together. Some of these things were lightly touched on then abandoned until the moment when they were resolved - at which point I had kind of forgotten that they were issues in the first place. It was a movie that could have been massively better done - it had potential, the majority of those plots, if properly developed, would have been really interesting. But they weren't. I don't even know where to start in order to fix it.
HGS is like making a hamburger and forgetting to add the all beef patty, then expecting you take it at face value of 'trust us, its a delicious hamburger'.
Ayo! Welcome back! Also if no one has told I’ll you right now…… what a guardian is: it’s a generic hero that fights monsters. Don’t do no deep dives, I’m saving you the trouble and time, it’s a shallow puddle on the sidewalk so when I say it ain’t that deep it’s not. This show only shows “guardians” fighting monsters and those “guardians” are only lavender in the flashback and rosemary and co in episode 11. So in conclusion be cause this show doesn’t show “Guardians” doing anything else well…… with a keen eye for details only one truth prevails 👉that truth is guardians and generic heroes that fight monsters and that’s it. Also don’t try deciphering the vows from the triad, it means nothing but chivalry. Also if this show gets a season 2 then we can say Stranger Things has happened……. That or it’s a sign of the apocalypse
Say Guardian HQ, how do you feel about currently making it to 13K subscribers? You’re on a roll so I say keep up the good work. Our mental health wouldn’t be cured without your commentary on this show.
Of all places for this "the narrative lies straight to your face" phenomenon to happen, one of the most frustrating examples I've come across personally was in RuneScape. See, in RS, there's a goddess named Seren. She's supposedly the god of peace, and she's the cultural leader of elves in RS' world. They worship her, they're a pretty isolationist race so not many other people worship or even know about Seren, etc etc. Now, important context: RS' story and writing underwent a massive overhaul at the end of 2012/start of 2013 where the writers went in HARD on developing characters, fleshing out the lore and generally moving in a more mature direction. Out of this, we got some actual backstory and details about Seren! It turns out she's... actually just a horrible person, through and through. I won't explain the entire story of a 20-year-old game to you, but some highlights include: condemning an entire species to a slow and agonising extinction because she viewed them as inferior to her, getting a DIFFERENT species magically addicted to her presence such that if they're ever not in physical proximity to her, they go terminally mad, brainwashing two human kingdoms into sending CIVILIANS to battle a monster that killed every single one of them, and uhhhh oh yeah almost getting the literal entire universe destroyed. But the story doesn't see her that way! No no, you see, she's just so compassionate, she's all-loving, she feels her emotions SO strongly. She does all of this because she's following her heart. She's the goddess of peace! You can't blame her for what she does, or be angry with her. She's only doing what she thinks is right. You're all just evil and mean and jealous of her! It is actually, legitimately infuriating. The story presents you with all of these details about Seren, straight up, doesn't try to soften them or downplay the atrocity of what she does, AND STILL EXPECTS YOU TO AGREE THAT SHE'S A GOOD PERSON. The writers were so set on Seren being this blameless, all-loving mother figure that even when she's so wrong that ALL OF REALITY is at stake, the story still bends over backwards to portray her sympathetically and lets her win. She went from an intriguing background character with some skeletons in her past to just an objectively abhorrent monster, all the time, unrelentingly. And the story wants you to love her and do what she says.
Thank you... You found the words to begin to say what has been bothering me in general... Also thank you for looking into the thing with Wanda. I feel as sorry for the poor girl as anyone else but, and as much as I hate to have to tell you all, those who have killed her where right. I think that Wanda herself knows this on some level. It's her or you, it's literally everyone including her, or just her. Justice for Agatha!... Ya she did the mind control. One one guy... Temporarily... To free him from Wanda's permanent mind control.
This video is a good Christmas present, I like that you talk about HGS there is still a lot of crap to analyze, Sage is the representation of the "diverse and awake" writers who want a set of rules that reinforces and rewards their toxic attitude I bet female writers have never had a healthy interaction with a straight white male.
WELCOME BAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!! talking about HGS is best thing ever XDDDDDDD and yup the authors sadly faild to show us characters that behave according to their presumed traits which shows lack of experience in writing that makes the story inconsistent I actually would like to see them remake the story into an at least a decent one, but they keep denying that the story has issues so I don't think we'll see a remake or 2nd season :-:
I've learnt a surprising amount from this channel about how to make a decent story by learning what went wrong with High Gardian Spice. Thanks for this.
What you’re describing in this video is something I like to call a “Plot Wormhole” unlike a “plot hole “ which is basically just a discrepancy, the wormhole is connecting to points of the story, while seemingly skipping something much like how a wormhole connects two points in space simultaneously. The guardians are heroes because they are heroes. We don’t need to show anything. Essentially they’re using peoples experience with media to tell the story for them so they don’t have to do any extra work
My favorite part is that you incorporated Rosemary's mom. As C puff says, Rosemary has no personality, and the authors try to fix that by having her mom be missing. Then they sometimes realize that Rosemary has no personality, and have to remind the audience that Rosemary is sad that her mom is missing. This "anime" would be so much better if Rosemary aspired to be like her mom and is working with Sage and/or the crew to find more information on Lavender. The problem is that she's a main character and has a) no personality b) the authors never really acted on the whole "Lavender is missing" thing, and c) she has less character development than a grain of rice.
Backstory doesn't equal personality. A dead parent isn't just something you can whip out for no reason, otherwise it looses impact. Does Rosemary blame herself and feel guilty about her mom's disappearance? Does she go out of her way to be like her and feel bad when she's not? Did her mother leave behind a request or some mystery for her to solve and if so does she do anything about it? Does she befriend someone similar to her mother and try to fill that void? Nope... she's just a blank slate with funky hair.
@@meb4224 the show could have been great if some actual effort and research was put into it. It could have been that rice. Instead it's just...cold mush.
@@HangryOnPaws If you make rice, you know the dissapointment and utter dread when you forget to use it all and it becomes porridge with the scent of alcohol.
I elect to call it _'Contra Facie'_ Writing. *Prima facie* - you may have heard this in court, it's Latin means "First Face" Literally, or "at face value" Well contra facie would be the opposite: "Against face" "Writing that is contradictory or dishonest not as a tool for narrative purposes like "misdirection" but due to ineptitude and/or author bias." A character who say... _puts up a barrier, kidnaps, then mind-rapes a town because she's sad, later to let the barrier down when confronted_ is a *villain.* on the face of it. It is then contra facie writing to have a this maniac character call out another for pointing guns at her to make her stop OR having another character state that her giving up the evil gambit is a _"sacrifice they will never understand."_ It's insulting, it's stupid, it's contradictory, *it is a lie* This kind of writing reveals the biases and hatred of terrible people Say what you want about Aster, Rosemary and Sage are infinitely worse than him. Rosemary outright nearly kills a girl for carelessly swinging a heavy sword around in a crowded market. And Sage is a controlling LGBTQ domestic abuse statistic. The *BLLLLATANT* Author Self-insert Calloway is a *child groomer* who makes transgenderism his defining personality trait. That Aster is considered worthy of immediate retribution for his behavior, but Rosemary and Sage are treated as quirky and slightly misguided shows the internal machinations of the writers. The problem then isn't the attributes of the character, it's a personal bias and hatred of men that the writers have. Their marketing showed their intentions the whole time. Contra facie writing, aka a Fools Propaganda.
Another example would be Captain America and the winter soldier. The ‘bad’ Captain America is a multiple time Purple Heart recipient. Who is routinely trying to work with Bucky and Sam and receives derision for trying and being hired as a government position as Captain America. And after he witnesses battle stars death, his friend, he takes out a super powered terrorist who is running toward civilians which thanks to camera work and sound design sets him up as a ‘villain’. After this he finds Bucky and Sam and asks them if they’re ok. At which point he gets assaulted and the shield US gov. property worth billions. It’s insane.
Honestly when you said the part about how everybody praises the protagonist but he beats up dogs in his spare time, the first thing I thought of was Patrick Bateman from American psycho 🤣😭💀
Tv Tropes calls it ‘’Designated Hero‘’, A hero that is only the good guy in the eyes of their author. This kind of character usually come with what BlackLightJack calls a ‘’Moral Scapegoat‘’, a character that exist only to make the designated hero looks like a better person.
I think Erin Yeager in AOT is an excellent example of making a villain protagonist done right. He doesn't seem entirely wrong at first, but you realize just how bad he is while he only sees himself as the good guy but the show doesn't frame it that way
The problem you described is similar to First Draft Syndrome. That's when the writer just makes up the story as they go along and never bothered checking if the whole thing made sense. Scenes just happen in the order the writer thought of them, if cause and effect ever comes into play it's reversed because scrolling back up to add it earlier in the story is something you'd do on a second draft.
"dramatic irony" the audience having information that the characters don't, however, for the case of HGS, it's just bad writing. It's incredible really, that you can come up with an entire different plot for the show that the creators probably didn't even thought of
Guys please stop writing paragraphs about wanda vision, i can only handle so much
Yes the volume is fixed now thankyou
That’s an interesting glitch 🤔
I belive the term is manipulation 🤔
At 15:21 people in the background are being crushed lol.
Why stop at 500? Why not try for 6? :P
The fact they had the opportunity to lean into how abusive and dangerous this school is and make something somewhat dark and subversive, yet they chose to play this ridiculous world of theirs straight.They actually didn't have the ability to see the genius in their own concept. I love how twisted the school is. How they put these kids into danger, and the zealous nature of the students to be thrust into this cult of theirs. Yet they never actually gaze into the depth of their own story, it's like the writers don't actually love this world at all.
Its the problem i find for any story to follow. How can i like a story that the author doesnt like?
I'd argue that it's probably the reverse. We're looking at the artistic equivalent of nepotism. They thought their story was perfect as it was and did not see the potential it had to be better.
You could literally talk about this show for years and I would never get tired.
This show is literally so thoroughly, invasively bad. Like there is no way you could make everything so perfectly bad on accident. It's a Gift that truly does Keep On Giving.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you don't have anyone to tell you no. Your bad ideas get in and you aren't forced to refine them into good ideas
The worst part is when you have multiple good ideas and instead of using some that can work together, you insist on using ALL of them, even if the ideas clash wrongly with eachother. When that happens, you tend to have a Frankenstein of a show, mostly when you have an inexperienced team.
I'm not an expert on writing or storyboards, but I know that on that kind of jobs you tend to have creative reunions in which you and your team take a moment to think, expand and improve the ideas and story of a show.
The HGS team obviously did that, but wrongly. They used the first thought that crossed their mind and suddenly, every single writer, creator included, merged their ideas into one. No question, not trying it to make sense in the lore of the show, apparently not giving constructive criticisim and therefore no improvement on the ideas... a disaster. This would be a case of "quantity over quality", and we know how that ends.
I really hope that all of HGS team learn from this experience and improve in their careers. We don't know if on that team lies a great mind that needs experience to shine.
@@kamiladiaz1465 It's indicative of the "Everyone needs to matter" mindset that those people all undoubtedly have.
It's inevitable that not everyone's ideas are going to work together, it's just how writing goes. But these people dont want to step on each other's toes because, God forbid, _hurt feelings_ or something happen, so they just kind of . . . mashed it all together.
And it's like you said, they actually did have a lot of (even if not necessarily unique) cool ideas that could all have worked very well together and formed a coherent story that could have been passable, maybe even entertaining.
Stories dont have to be cookie-cutter perfect to be entertaining, but there's literally so many things done incorrectly that the only real entertainment is just how they managed to screw up literally everything perfectly.
And plus, it’s SO generic that it HURTS.
Agree 😂
High Guardian Spice is the psycho ex-girlfriend of shows. No, you can’t fix her.
More like, if you fix her, you'll end up with husk of a show--no longer so bad it's hilarious and analyzable, but just boring cliches cuz it doesn't have anything that good beneath all the bads
Because it was written exclusively by psycho ex-girlfriends
It was made by psycho ex-girlfriends, for psycho ex-girlfriends. Especially since psycho ex-girlfriends are the type to defend this show and pull all the mental gymnastics to argue that it's good.
@@letsreadtextbook1687 Out of context this sounds like a supervillain speech
You can, but not without changing the entire concept and story ig :>
When the world needed him the most, he came back. Unlike my dad.
Ya good?
Yes, anyone know why buying milk sometimes takes this ridiculous long time?
@@Crystalgate and Cigarettes, don't forget the Cigarettes
@@allforone3427 weirdest thing too is he doesn't even smoke but still left for cigarettes
@@y0gapants931 He's also lactose intolerant.
The analogy you gave? There's an actual term; Protagonist-Centered Morality. The good guy does something typically considered evil or iffy, but the media treats it as good or okay. But if it was done by the villain or has been done by the villain, it's shown as being bad.
I'm going to use Santa Inc as an example. For those unaware, it's a crude adult comedy about a female elf named Candy who wants to be the next Santa. The series is basically her trying to get into the current Santa's good graces and get him to notice her so he'll name her as his successor. At one point, Santa is in the hospital (I think he has a heart attack) and some kids want to see him cause, you know, he's Santa. Candy is trying to get the kids out of the room, but they avoid her and go to a guy named Dave. Later, Santa says that Dave will be his successor. He explains to Candy that he noticed her hard work and was impressed by it, even being fully prepared to name her as his successor, but the incident with the kids made him choose Dave. Candy isn't good with kids and, of course, that's very important about being Santa. He even offers to meet her halfway, wanting her to work behind the scenes to implement her reforms and changes, but she tells Santa to go fuck himself and quits.
The show frames Candy is being in the right and Santa was wrong for not naming her the next Santa, but objectively, everything Santa said was right. (Brief aside, she also accidentally hits Rudolph Jr. with her car and is about to help him until he starts acting sexist toward her, so Candy decides to leave him).
I suppose another example (even if it's more comedic and probably not meant to be taken seriously), Spongebob. Specifically the "Bubbly Buddy" episode. Spongebob makes a friend made from bubbles and he spends his day with his new friend. Throughout the episode, Spongebob and Bubble Buddy (of course, being non-sentient) are being a pain to everyone; having people wait in a line for 2 hours to use the bathroom because Bubble Buddy was using it, making an extremely difficult order and the Krusty Krab and paying Mr. Krabs with bubble money (that also pops almost instantly), and let a fish drown when he was buried to his neck at Goo Lagoon and the tide was coming in. At the climax, a large group of people surround the pair and try to pop Bubble Buddy, but BB stops them and he up and leaves, surprising everyone except Spongebob that he was alive.
*morality
The series 24 was built on this, not only could the protagonist do something evil (generally framed as being for the right reasons and thus okay) when other side characters that are basically portrayed as good do the same things they always sufferred consequences for it.
So it does have a name! I was calling it "protagonist syndrome."
I wouldn’t call a trope an “actual term,” especially when there is already an actual term for subjective morality.
To be fair, even if taken non-comedically, and to the most serious degree you can take a talking sponge living in a world of talking fish, having an escapade with his new bubble friendo...
That angry mob was going to kill that bubble man.
Granted they didn't know he was actually alive, but still, if we're making assumptions toward the morality of the scenario, those people were about to commit mob justice on some floating sentient bubble fella. 👀
....though Bubble Buddy did totally kill that fish dude.... at least he got to experience high tide?😅...BB'd probably get charged for fishslaughter, through negligence..
[I mean if he was sentient the whole time, it really just makes that death even worse in retrospect. My man just floated above him, and watched that fish guy drown.]
"Are the guardians actually the villains?"
Stop! That would make the story much more interesting!
THEY CANT BE EVIL THEYRE MY PRECIOUS OCS AND THEREFORE ARE GOOD -the creators, probably
14:08 Do you know why Astor keeps calling her Rhubarb? It's because she not only never corrected him the first time, but she basically confirmed that that was her name.
So Astor got chewed at for thinking Rose’s name was something else because SHE confirmed it?
THANK YOU. It's such horrible writing to give her that self-righteous moment of correcting him as if she had told him previously he was wrong. What is she so mad about? She was too thirsty to even correct him once until then.
For the tiniest bit of added hilarity?
Rhubarb stalks are pink, and mostly used in desserts. So that name fits her way better than Rosemary.
I always have taken Rhubarb as a friendly nickname. It fits her better and it's pretty. The only moment that could be seen as rude is when Astor challenges her in the trial with a mocking voice tone.
And he is not sexist, he is the typical petty rich guy for everyone and everything but with an actual good heart.
It seems the writers do not understand what true sexism is, confusing it with tone deafness, cluelessness, and being socially illiterate. And Astor seems to be the idiot hero that has to shoulder all the weight, which unintentionally seems like an “I’m better than you” attitude.
On a slightly related note, I would love to see you make a video on how poorly this show treats violence. Wyverna Dretch goes on this lecture about how fear leads to violence, and Caraway even criticizes Snapdragon for using violence against Cal. However, the guardians also seem to relish being violent, as seen with Redbud and even Caraway. The job of guardians is to slaughter dangerous animals and save people by committing acts of violence. Then, when the kids do their job and defeat the dragon, the whole thing is treated as this great tragedy, even though violently killing beasts is what every guardian has done, including the children.
You know what would've been a better use of those critters in Dretch's lecture? If their personalities didn't change with their specie. Use that as a point on how people might not always be how they appear, or that you should get to know someone before you start assuming about them.
...Then again, this show also thinks that only diamond can crush diamond, so I doubt their social science know-how is any better.
@@MrAuthor3DS It isn't. Some dialogue is not written like how people normally speak. If they knew anything about the social aspect/social sciences in general, we would not have
"Great job baby crone, they say that the way to win an argument is pedantically."
"Maybe it's got rabies!"
And "Looks like we're going to die in here after all."
"Nyeeeeeh."
What is this dialogue?
Whenever you have a military or police organization, you have the issue that you want them to use violence in certain ways and situations, but not in others. The fact that Caraway approved of the violence the girls used against the octopus mecha, but not of the violence Snapdragon used against Cal is not a problem, that is expected from a military organization. The death of a comrade is tragic, the death of an enemy is not, so I think that them mourning the death of the sea dragon while not doing so with a countless of other creatures also makes sense. It may be hypocrisy, but it's realistic hypocrisy.
Where the show does get problematic is when Parsley's violence against Aster, Potion teacher's violence against all students and Amaryllis' magic shooting spree is apparently A-OK while Snapdragon's violence against Cal almost got him a suspension. If the academy uses some sort of logic where they approve of students having to constantly being on the watch for violence committed against them, then surely the triad would not have seen any problem with what Snapdragon did. Wyverna Dretch's lesson of fear and violence is also pointless if the show won't actually expand on it.
In short, I don't think it's a problem that violence sometimes is approved of and sometimes not, rather the problem is the lack of consistency of when the violence is and isn't approved of.
I just now realized that the show tries to make you feel like this;
Killing dragon that was just born: wowee pretty stars
Killing water dragon: 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@MrAuthor3DS well, diamond IS the hardest metal known to man, so...
They're not wrong.
I like the evil triad idea. Also to the Rosemary/Aster story fix is pretty easy with what they laid out:
_Two dumbasses, Rosemary and Aster, wind up liking each other. Sage gets jealous. She believes Aster is egocentric, pushy and verbally abusive, accidentally projecting these same behaviors onto Snapdragon, hurting him in the process._
_Aster and Rosemary grow tired of each other for being foolish and stupid until they have a verbal fight and realize they're acting the exact same way. It's an epiphany that allows for Rosemary to GROW from her episode 1 self when she realizes how stupidly she's been acting. Aster also realizes how stupidly he's been acting and they use the conflict to overcome an obstacle as a team, each vowing to be a better Guardian - in this rewrite, Rose is Not suddenly really awesome and acrobatic to make Aster look stupid, she's just as clumsy as she's always been presented._
_Rosemary talks to Sage later about the revelation and about the dangers of Hypocrisy, tying it into the vows of the High Guardians to become incorruptible and better people. Sage, feeling bad for how she treated Rose and Snapdragon, but unsure how/if to apologize or let it sit becomes resolute to apologize to Rose and then find Snapdragon to resolve the situation. Rose begins training in secret to become a more capable Guardian._
*BOOM Fixed Easy:* Everyone's (minus Snapdragon) doing something wrong. It's childish misunderstandings, Everyone mutually grows, and the show doesn't feel vindictive toward Aster for his straight, white, maleness.
Glad to see you back at it. Still don't get why people should complain that a Channel dedicated to HGS is still talking about it. It's like ordering a Hamburger and then being mad that you were given a Hamburger.
This, exactly!
It’s like saying ‘why does KFC still make chicken?!”
its more like complaining that the restaurant called "burger city" is coming up with new burgers
Hamburger
Cheeseburger
True but it's also kinda like the waiter keeps giving you a hamburger even though you never asked for it.
There are two kinds of lies
The intentional in-universe lie & The unintended "I didn't think this through" lie
(Both are a food)
If it's not intended then it's not a lie. If I say the sky is yellow but I know it isn't, then I lied. If I say the sky is yellow because I truly think it's yellow, then I didn't lie, I'm just wrong.
Thanks for the confirmation, i'll go and get some for lunch
@@zandershadowbane nah you’re not wrong, could be color blind or crazy though 😂
The cake is a lie
@@sterilepickle544 i mean theoretically you could also have the names of colors wrong.
The Sage/Aster hypocrisy is so bad because it is just so blatant and obvious. They could have probably gotten away with it if it wasn't in the same damn episode. Like it's not hard to compare the two when the two plot lines are going on at the exact same moment. Like most people would probably have overlooked it if the two plot lines happened a few episodes apart with only the most critical noticing the similarity in behaviour and difference in how the show treats it. The fact that such blatant hypocrisy could stand right next to each other and the staff didn't think "hmm this doesn't work" is telling.
Also Aster is more of an implied sexist where Sage is just an outright sexist. For Aster you kind of have to read into his behaviour and if you looked into his behaviour he could just be a dumb narcissist without any real sexism. Whereas for Sage there is no question. She literally spells out that she is sexist with her words no interpretation needed. So Aster isn't shown outright to be sexist, but the show tells us he is. Meanwhile Sage is an outright sexist and the show tries to tell us she isn't.
Feminist logic in action. They don’t want equal rights, they want special privileges. They want to kill someone because they feel like it and not have to face any consequences. Our society is guilty of breeding sociopaths and we need to stop it.
I don't think it's a real term, but I'd personally call this phenomenon "Narrative Gaslighting."
Telling your audience one thing, but showing them the complete opposite, I mean.
@@InDeathWeLove
Exactly.
I think it's technically referred to as protagonist syndrome or something but "Narrative gaslighting" is much cooler
And Inclusivity Bias, Moral Spacecoat...
@@MythicBeanProductions
Thanks m8!
I made a different interpretation of Sage's comment. She says "the well was dry... maybe... without magic... they mutated". However, there is a line later in in this episode that further expands on this. After doing the dungeon and returning with a quest item, the healing water that is, Thyme uses a droplet of it to heal a tree. Following dialog takes place:
Sage: "It's healed, but what caused the rot in the first place?"
Thyme: "I don't know, but the healing water's drying up has to be connected."
Sage: "Is the level of magic in the earth fading?"
Thyme: "I think so and I plan to stop it!"
With that in mind, I interpret Sage's comment as instead of meaning that taking healing water from the well removes magic, it's the opposite way and a lack of magic that causes the well to dry up and Sage was using the dry well as an indicator that magic was absent and then came to the conclusion that this may have mutated the creatures. This is also the implication this show makes that new magic is causing the rot.
Now, this does remove the problem of the guardians destroying the environment, but not the child soldiers and threatening said child soldiers with death. Further, this also replaces the problem it averts with another. If Sage and Thyme can figure out that the magic of the earth may be fading, then so can many others and the suspicion should fall on new magic. Assuming the show really is going with "new magic causes the rot", then Sage and Thyme should have no idea about the fading magic in the earth, such and event should be unheard of since it has never been a thing until new magic was invented.
I had that impression too. But I love hearing these types of interpretations, it really hammers home how little the writers explained things and expect the viewer to fill in the gaps 😄
Bet it is because writers made their own episodes without communicating, so the one that cares about the rot plotline is not talking about it to each other.
It actually doesn't remove the problem of the guardians destroying the environment. The Guardians are one of the ones in various scenes that we see promoting and pushing new magic. If it's causing the rot and destroying the environment through it then they are still the ultimate cause of that problem by promoting such magic and spreading it around to all those people that use it and don't have any clue at all. So Ultimately with this point we not only get rid of a problem that they are causing but we actually create an additional problem with the show.
@@Quandry1 You have a point. I would say that in this scenario, the Guardians are unaware that they are destroying the environment, but they have no real reason to be so apart from wishful thinking considering that children were able to figure out that the magic of the earth is fading. Considering that we must assume the Triumvirate has their excuses as well, yeah, we're back to there being no difference between the Guardians and the Triumvirate.
@@Crystalgate the problem there is. We can't be sure what the guardians actually know. Most are portrayed as blissfully unaware of the rot, but this could be a deliberate smoke screen lie as is discussed briefly in this video to help spread new magic and the rot by association.
The "we are meant to fill in the gaps" nugget might have been from the c-puff review. least thats the first review my head went to when i heard it.
Perhaps, i have seen her hgs videos so maybe thats where I heard it.
I feel like one of the major gaps that the writers want the audience to fill is the question of "why do guardians need to exist? In shows the TOH where everything is dangerous and there are a lot of sketchy people who are ready to take advantage of you it makes sense why you'd want to learn magic to defend yourself. And even if you're not interested and think you don't need protection you'd at least want to learn a little bit of magic. Whether it be to make your daily tasks easier or because it's part of a job you want magic is shown to have lots of use.
But what about guardians? From what I've seen in this show there is no danger. There's never a moment where a dragon attacks Lyngarth, a monster attacks lyngarth, or if there are people like thieves and such that use magic for evil (besides the main evil team). Nothing. Nearly every conflict the girls face is something that they caused themselves.
The crabs? Because they went into a giant cave that should be off limits. The two giant ice warriors? Same answer. The giant octopus? It was a mech suit. The demon that Thyme had to face? Well, apparently demons can't even purposefully hurt others, you have to summon them first.
There really seems to be no need for there to be Heros like guardians, it more or less just seems like they should just stop going into dangerous places for no reason.
These are the same rules that apply to the real world, sure there are criminals and bad things that happen beyond our control, you don't see me purposefully going into shark infested waters instead of the beach to swim. Just in general the world is a lot less dangerous if you just make smart decisions.
I would also add what part of society created the Guardians? Because their existence and their purpose varies greatly depending on who founded them, for example if they were founded by Nobles they would have very different goals than if they were founded by a church or as an arm of the military
Interestingly, this could be pretty easily answered if the story went down the route where the Triad and Baddies are the same. The guardians don't exist because the world is dangerous, but because the antagonist needs willing, skilled grunts to fulfill their goal.
To be entirely fair, it makes sense the town they live in is safe, since it's one of the headquarters of the guardians, so it SHOULD be safe....that said, considering the show never even addresses what a guardian is or does, it kinda feels like they're essentially just glorified town guards.
@@kou7191 Glorified town guards that don't even stand guard.
Thats a very good point. Most series with Adventures of some kind make it very clear WHY the group exists, whether thats because of roaming monsters or as a protection against bandits or whatever.
I remember waiting for Sage to tell the story of how Rosemary nearly failed the fourth grade because she crushed on some boy, and it never happens! It never once justifies why Sage is jealous, (which is the answer, she's a jealous lesbian) especially when she crushes on Snapdragon
Jealous lesbians are lethal...
There are more things the story just lies about in the overarching sense.
like how everyone praises new magic as being the end all be all yet its used so rarely to solve problems despite the fact that sage is meant to be the smart mage of the group and at latest by ep 8 should be adept enough to just pull spells out of her ass.
or how in ep 11 she shot actively damaging spells at the dragon when this was a subdue mission
or how sage is meant to be a likable character yet, and thanks to the c-puff vid for this, acts more in line with manipulative villians.
There are also things that im unsure if they are due to inconsistency or outright lying like
rosemarys varying degrees of competence
thyme saying shes focused on the rot yet needing forever and taking the dumbest ways to go about it, when she should also be smart
parsley not actively being involved in trying to mend the rosemary sage drama from the harvest festival despite being shown to be the caring one
the teachers attitude towards violence against students
Here's another one; Sage not giving a shit when Snapdragon snapped and beat the shit of of Cal despite developing a relationship with him.
@@Crystalgate right i forgot about that, because this fucking show has a selective lack of object pernamence since i dont think she even knew what happened on the boat and ep 12 had no time to touch on that it was too busy with sage moping for being the r word in ep 11. (stupid doesnt cut it and neither does new magic losing control if the wrong type of spell is shot)
Yeah and we're never too what makes old magic better then new magic that Saga keeps bringing it up, but doesn’t explain why other then “it's sacred” and when someone argues about it she whines, continues to say “it's sacred”, and/or cries away. There’s no downside to New Magic other then supposedly causing this rot but it's so glossed over you might just forget that's a thing.
@@brandonlyon730 thing is, new magic causing the rot isnt a thing the show ever brings up. its something viewers theorize about to give it some kind of drawback. its not a thing from the show itself.
now if it ACTUALLY causes the rot then that would be something and then old magic being sacred makes sense but this is something for fan works, as the original never links new magic and the rot clearly enough to say without doubt that new magic is the reason.
and because of that, and ep 11 just doing an asspull cause the plot needs it since there is no other sign of new magic ever going out of control, there is no downside to it.
i went on a rant regarding the magic in the final lobster video cuase thats where the combining bullshit came up but yeah. new magic outright IS better by every metric the show shows.
@@Flutterdark_ About the new magic causing the rot, there is no evidence in the show that it does so, but there is a fair bit of evidence that the writers at least at one point of the story intended for it to be that way. We have implications of the writer's intention, but nothing that translate as evidence in-universe.
When evaluating characters like Sage, the right call is to ignore that idea entirely and this is what all videos I've seen of this show does. It is however an obvious point to bring up when suggesting fixes.
everything you said at the beginning of the video applies to ladybug miracles! the protagonist is selfish, a stalker, uses her ladybug powers and the title for her own benefits, is the cause of several villains in the show, and has done many questionable things like going to Taiwan with her grandfather not because he wanted her to travel with him but because her crush was going there, and she used her grandfather's invitation to stalk the boy! nonetheless, the show paints her in a positive light, and calls her stalker behavior "true love".
The show's creator also refuses to call her out for the questionable things she does and hopes that we just see her as a pure-hearted person who never makes mistakes.
while another character who starts out as a bad person, but demonstrates likable aspects and has the potential to evolve as a person, the creator retcons EVERYTHING about her just because she happened to be a favorite character for many fans (including me!) and practically expects everyone to hate her and block everyone who disagrees with what he says! besides having a huge ego and thinking he knows how to make superhero stories better than big studios like marvel and dc! but if you watch the show, it's one hell of a lie!
seriously, miraculous is a dumpster fire! and the creator REFUSES to accept constructive criticism!!
i think now, Marinette is a little better than before. Although I feel that Adrien gave the wrong impression, it was a good way to go but they had wonky execution. And Thomas didnt destroy Chloe's character because she got too popular, he did it because he...hates blondes. I can't even make this up. He hated Chloe because she's a stereotypical blonde rich girl. Anyway, I think Miraculous got a little better in what Season 3? I can't remember- but then it all went downhill again. I just hope for the best for the rest of Season 5. Also Gabriel's outfits look nasty, sorry to whoever designed them.
Marinette is the embodiment of "boys will be boys" if applied to girls.
@@kou7191 exactly!! i hate this trop in the media that boys can't be perverted stalkers or sexually assaulting girls, but when it's a girl doing it it's "QuRkYe and funny lol"! ridiculous!! it just goes to show how demented these writers are to think this kind of behavior is ok to present to a child-majority audience!!
@@4kiyotsu.0 Bro! fans can make a better design for Gabriel!! i would say that after season 3 the show just got even more mediocre, season 5 is just ok in my opinion, but it still doesn't change the distaste I now have for Marinette.
@@laraprisma6381 Marinette fell over backwards and became a parody of herself...That's saying something she was already a parody of bad shoujo romance clichés mixed with millennial-brain.
The show has to keep reassuring the audience that she's just right for the role of Guardian, but she really isn't. The only things it can keep using to justify her guardianship are her convoluted plans. Meanwhile you find yourself feeling bad for Adrien because this guy gets completely shafted by the show itself.
I think I know the term you were looking for in the beginning. I think the term for this scenario is “Protagonist-Centered Morality.” Or at least I’m 90% sure that’s the term, I remember Red from OverlySarcasticProductions using that term in a Trope Talk
That was better then my answer. It really explains a lot.
It's an indicator of a Mary Sue. If the protagonist does it, it is either good/cool/badass or we are supposed to feel sympathetic for them. When someone else does it, it is unforgivable and evil. Extra points when that someone also dislikes the protagonist.
The term I've heard for that is 'Sainting'. Basically where the story, and the universe in the story seem to bend over backwards to paint a certain character as the good guy unironically. Any bad thing they do they were either deceived/tricked/mind-conmtrolled into doing. Any negative outcome is later recast as a positive thing in retrospect. Oh no.. they blew up the dam and flooded the town. Oh hey now there's a vibrant economically susntainable fishing industry and nature preserve there, so I guess it's a good thing. It's one of the powers/effects of a Mary Sue, or author insert.
Sadly it is most prevalent in bad fanfiction, and many YA novels and unsurprisingly it happens in stories where the protagonist is a female, queer, or on some sort of spectrum. This is also where the author knows the audience is supposed to imprint on the character and they want to make the audience feel good about them selves but not think about themselves.
Love that this whole video was just an explanation of how HGS was just "gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss 💅" with extra steps
speaking of the triad actually being bad guys i had to think of ep 11, even if that doesnt really fit
not only are they sending out kids to deal with a rampaging sea dragon without supervision
but they also decided to send the most deadly people to a subdue mission.
which isnt exactly what you do when you try to help your sister school.
While sending teachers to supervise in case things go wrong under water. ............from the land.
@@SunnysFilms yeah. i mean the one they sent only got sent by the writers so they can go nuts. the other wasnt even there to supervise afterall.
I once had a thought when watching this show and watching reviews. A fix. What if the Triad and the Triumvirate were six parts of the same being (think the triforce from Zelda or the Skeksis and Mystics from The Dark Crystal). They were a primordial being who came down to live among mortals and they split themselves into six counterparts. The triad have the motif of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, and Triumvirate have the masculine ajayest version (Lad, Father, Wiseman?). They are all cut from the same thread and neither group is entirely good nor entirely evil. Since they are all the same, if one of them is killed, it also kills their counterpart. That's why they will never fight each other directly and instead declare proxy wars and use their loyal followers to fight for them.
Why are they fighting? They probably had some falling out centuries ago. I dunno, it's just an idea. But it would at least make the Guardians questionable actions make more sense.
That would be cool if the writers were able to world build that well.
You just did better worldbuilding than all the episodes of the series put together.
" masculine ajayest ".... adjacent?
The trope you are describing here, I believe, is called " Informed Attribute " on TVTropes. Your analogy specifically is a sub-trope of " Informed Attribute ", known as " Designated Hero "
Yep, and there are examples going back to ancient mythology. It's not strictly a modern trope.
@@Impacatus In fairness, there are tropes that fall in and out of fashion.
@@angah82 True enough, but when was this trope out of fashion?
@@Impacatus I mean, in general. It's not like I ever notice when a show is using the "designated hero" trope, until or unless the internet is telling me to be hyper-aware of it. Otherwise, it just slips by me.
Ha, the Aster sexist comment is spot on. That would have been an amazing character growth moment for Rosemary because, as you said, if she saw her antics in someone else and realized that perhaps she had the same effect on others, Rosemary could have taken that opportunity to grow as a character. Heck, maybe Aster could have been upset at first with Rosemary but come to her aid in a later episode and thanked Rosemary because he came to a similar conclusion in a different way.
The biggest issue with HGS is none of the main characters grow. They are perfect the way they are and you aren't allowed to see them any other way. The viewer is only supposed to hate the villains because the writers say so.
Hopefully, these writers reach out to writing labs that don't tell them their writing is good because they hit diversity points and actually provide them real opportunities for growth in their writing.
Welcome back, Dave!👋 Yes, I love complainig too, and after watching this video, I remembered another moment where the show puts up this "double standards" situation.
When the main girls visit the mermaids accademy there's this moment where Thyme suddenly crushes over one of the mermaids they just met.
For some reason, Thyme, the coldest and most cinical in her group, instantly fells for this mermaid -whose name I don't even remember- but just a couple of episodes before (the episode in the video) Thyme says that crushes are dumb and that the only way to heal from them is by spending some time with the person you have a crush on.
And that's exaclty what Thyme does with pink haired mermaid! They spend some time together (literally one scene) and Oh-! Would you look at that! Thyme is crushing even harder now!
Logic? Character consistency? Karma? Never heard of those in HGS!
to be fair I think that's just a character changing
@@timetraveler_from_2012 to be fair, the show needed better writers
@@timetraveler_from_2012 I would have accepted that if Thyme had experienced some form of character development. But she said that crushes are dumb and then got a crush over pink mermaid in the span of like two or three episodes. That's not enough to make a character go from one mindset to another.
Tell you what, it would have been better if they just stated in the show that she was wrong.
"Girls, I was wrong about crushes. I was just being my grumphy me"
There. That's something more similar to a character growth.
That moment could've worked as a character development moment for Thyme if one of the other characters called her out on her behavior towards the pink haired mermaid and Thyme deciding to get either defensive, accepting, or in denial about it. Something small, along the lines of
Parsley: "who was it that said crushes were stupid?"
Thyme: "Shut it."
Something like that would've pointed out the contradiction and served to develop Thyme's character and possibly serve as relationship building between her and the other character.
Sadly, like most things, this possibility for character development just went right over the writing team's head.
@@giorgiapetrei5421 i mean yeah at this point i am really just trying to find any win this show can scrounge from a vast ocean of Ls
Watching your High Guardian Spice videos helps me as a writer to be more aware of what I’m writing and whether something is too OP or actually makes sense. I’m GLAD you’re still talking about this show. Also glad you’re feeling better ^^
I actually found HGS useful. When I'm drawing or writing I find that playing a show/film where the characters don't think helps me think. After watching HGS I came up with a way to change the story and extend it to 4 seasons.
I love the totally irrelevant Marvel footage! It really helps with the point.
It's because wandavision did the same, pretended wanda was the victim when she "kidnapped (?)" A whole town
@@SillyDragon41 I had no idea! Thank you for clarifying, you really opened my eyes.
@@michaelawesome1864 I swear I can't tell if it's sarcastic or not, the first one sounds sarcastic but also somewhat genuine, and now I'm just confused
@@SillyDragon41 No it wasn't Sarcastic at all! You're a genius! You should replace Dave as the creator of these videos you're so good!
.....
When the world needed him most, he returned
How convenient, I literally just got done binging all of your HGS videos! Another one to add to the collection, let’s see what we have this time!
This video confirms that Dave is a Food.
Don't believe me?
The opening clip is Vegeta, being used to represent Dave.
Vegeta's name comes from Vegetable.
Vegetables are Food.
If Dave is represented by a Vegetable, which is a Food, Dave is a Food.
You know to much
Good use of 'WandaVision' to illustrate your point about how the main character may seem like the hero, but after doing bad things out in the open without anyone questioning their actions, they're actually the villain. While the supposed villain is actually doing good things.
*Goes into the cave*
*Slaughters everything minding their own business*
We did it Patrick! We saved the cave!
I believe what you’re referring to is protagonist centered morality. First coined in Mr. Enter’s re-review of One Coarse Meal.
I actually like the idea of a story where the good main characters are unknowingly working for the villains. Because they're relatively young they never properly piece together the connection between the actions those they've been working for and those they're fighting against are almost identical. Eventually one day someone slips up and plants that seed of doubt in one of the main character's minds and they start questioning things more and more, but because the others didn't find this out themselves it sparks tensions between them until the truth finally comes out and they either stop working for the villains or stay undercover to foil their plans from the inside.
Man, if only someone had written that story instead of this one.
You know...this is like Pocahontas done wrong. In the movie, both sides are flawed and closed minded. There is a clear villain manipulating 1 side but the sides as a whole say and act the same and are misguided, best represented in the song "Savages."
"Dirty, shrieking devils!"
"The pale face is a demon!"
"They're not like you and me, which means they must be Evil!"
"They're different from us, which means they can't be trusted!"
And both chant "Destroy their evil race, until there is not a trace left! Now we sound the drums of War!"
High Spice Guardian is the same...but they fucked it up.
I almost want to make a show like this show, but actually done right, at least in my opinion. Rodriguez had some good ideas but no one made him actually fix them into great products.
It's funny you mention how many rewrites are going on. I'm working on one of them. I really liked the Triad = Triumvirate idea so much I tried to see if I could overhaul mine to fit it in; only to realize that what I came up with in its place was actually stronger, and adding it would only fuck up my themes because I decided to still go hard on politics. This show is such a trashfire that it's easier to scrap major portions than to fix everything.
Yeah, I've got technically two rewrites going on. The Danganronpa High Guardian Spice one where it's the reverse, the triumvirate are good at the very least, going against the triad and guardians, though a third faction are the true heroes, but they kind of work with the triumvirate so they're connected.
And then my other rewrite that's closer to an actual rewrite, where there technically is no overarching villain, but the guardian school isn't exactly "clean" either. It's the rot that's the true villain.
Reminds me of Mitchell and Webb's 'Are we the baddies?' sketch.
Let’s go he’s back let’s go!!!!
Damn, took me a minute to read that. Maybe I have a brain tumor
Dude....your amazing. Thank you so much for all these videos. I find it really important and very rewarding to watch your content.
You're right about the lying not being exclusive to HGS. I think enti-heroes and villains have been built up so much over the years, that some of the younger writers idealize and look up to THEM vs. the supposed to be heroes. So when they go to write "Hero" stories, they completely miss the mark because they have been emulating 'sympathetic villains' and thinking their "heroes" are sympathetic by being "flawed".
I like seeing heroes who have room to grow. In Spider Man and, a more modern version, Ben 10, the main character gifted super powers initially uses them for selfish gain. They don't continue using them for selfish gain in the long run (not that they won't use their powers out of the super hero gig, but not in a grossly unfair manner) and wind up not a simply reluctant hero, but someone willing and able to answer the call whenever there is trouble. Fundamentally, that's what heroes do - they step up where others shirk back.
My Hero Acedemia's Midori is an excellent example of an actually heroic character. Without power, he is willing to stand up against someone he has no chance against, not to save a friend - but his arch-rival.
The Guardians here are not heroes, are not heroic. Not demonstrably so.
It’s such an itch in the wrong spot to remember that Rosemary literally confirmed her name to be Rhubarb when she first talked to Aster.
Which is why she honestly has no reason to be angry at Aster when she herself didn’t even try correcting him when she had the chance in the first place.
I just watched a few old videos from this channel and seeing this felt like a blessing
One extreme case of this whole 'main character is a horrible person and gets rewarded for it' thing is the 'i am not starfire' '''comic'''
Actually, pretty much any DC YA graphic novel at this point.
Guess who’s back! Back again!
Dave is back! Tell a friend! :D
Marvel has definitely been guilty of this as well as the recent Star Wars stuff coming out of Disney. Where the characters do some questionable to shitty things and it either gets ignored or down played massively. Another case is that certain plot point (WW sleeping with Steve while he is possessing someone's body) in Wonder Woman 1984 which should be a massive issue but the movie doesn't seem aware that that just happened and moves a long. How that got past the entire production process is beyond me.
Especially when it isn't important to the story or characters. It's such a bizarre addition. The exchange given for him to come back was already her powers weakening, so why wasn't he just back in his own restored body? It's such a bizarre writing choice.
Welcome back!
About Parsley smashing Asters foot. This moment makes me switch Parsley's and Aster's character ranking. Also Sage seems to be more of a chauvinist than Aster. Especially in the end, Aster at least gives Rosemary credits and praises, while Sage's apologizes to Snapdragon only after she sees Rosemary is angry with Aster.
Animation error, or rather storyboarding incompetence in this case, at 13:40 judging from the blade angle and the direction the strikes land, the first strike should have made a hole in the practice dummy and the second should have cut of its arm. (No wonder that Aster thinks something is wrong with the blade. :D) Or who knows, maybe the storyboard artist were specially instructed to draw nonsense for the shake of the story. It's hard to tell when you're dealing with such high levels of incompetence mixed with malignant intention of some of the writers (kill all men).
Welcome back! Great to see you making your... Spicy content again ;)
(That was a terrible joke, I'm sorry)
*Canned laughter*
yes I like this herbal content
That joke was so bad I would think you were *high* while writing it
I think we should simmer down the spice puns. I can bay leaf stomach them right now. Mint we try another avenue? 😋
11:06 Now that I think about it, what if the Triumvirate and the Triad we're just the same 3 individuals who use Transition Magic to disguise themselves? Caraway says you need about a potion a month to keep the transformation up, but he never says what multiple doses within that time will do. Maybe it would continue to switch you back and forth between a Male or a Female form, Caraway probably wouldn't do so himself because he wouldn't want to change back into his original body. So what if the 2 groups were actually the 1 group, wether they be Men who turn into Woman or vise versa I'll let you decide. This could explain why the Guardians are so incompetent, becuase the Triumvirate/Triad(or as a like to call them The Triumviriad)would be making sure the only real threat to their plans are a bunch of ether stupid kids or insane adults. Most of the kids die or leave, and the adults are too busy spewing useless/stupid inspirational quotes to seem wise when they're not killing the students themselves. Everyone else ether doesn't care or has no power to stop them(like the people living in the Fairy Woods)so they only would need to worry about Gurdians. The explanation on why could be 1 of 2 scenarios.
1: A couple centuries ago the Triumviriad realized the Gurdians we're the biggest threat to them so they infiltrated the school to make them all incompetent so no one could challenge them. Meaning that at one point the Gurdians actually were a competent group of individuals.
Or 2: Which would be the Triumviriad started the school in the first place and propped being a Guardian up as one of the best things ever so anyone who wanted to change anything would decide to be one, therefore giving them direct control over whoever would want to foil their plans. They would purposely pick stupid people who had no promise over actual competent people to make sure that anyone who got in would be an idiot, like Rosemary. Therefore insuring that anyone who survived the hellish training would probably go on to screw the world up even more or probably become a teacher and start the cycle over again(possibly both). This would be a pretty neat Plot twist, but then again this is HGS so we all know for a fact they wouldn't do anything that required actual thought to be put into it.
By god, that's brilliant. And you know the one rule of this show: If it's good, the writers surely didn't think of it.
@@kenslycarpel3140 Thank you kind stranger
Except that would rile up the crazy people because “it puts trans people in a bad light”.
@@SweetOrangeGirl Probably yeah. People only seem to want people they like to be shown in a good light, and whenever you make a villian who is diverse they scream that your some kind of Ist or Phob. So diverse villains always ether get redeemed or it's revealed that they never were evil to begin with. Like everybody has the potential to be a bad person, no matter who/what they are. I'd for sure like any kind of representation, wether the character is a good bad, it would allow for so much more creativity. But nope we can't have nice things
@@allforone3427 Exactly. It’s almost like that one time people freaked out over that Jeffery Dahmer show on Netflix being put in the LGBTQ+ section (even though he was fucking gay himself).
Snapdragon and sages interaction gets further muddied by snapdragon being gender questioning. It makes it feel like the show writers genuinely feel like what sage said was actually objectively truth, and that the only reason SD was mad was because he's more effeminate, not because sage was being sexist.
Sage either implied that men are inherently incapable of making emotional bonds and if they do, they're secretly trans, or, because Snap doesn't understand how "real" girls feel, he wouldn't relate to them even if he transitioned - It's awful either way and the show had a VERY black and white view about it.
That's not true, Professor Caraway is far from what sage describes and is a men, who had a deep and meaningful friendship with Rose's mom
Who WAS a girl when the friendship was formed. This is what I meant when I say the interaction gets muddy. The gender politics of the show actually make it unclear what the intentions are. It genuinely feels to me like the show writers agree with sages statement, and that the queer characters are the exception to the rule BECAUSE of their queerness. But that's just my assessment
@@TriforceChad Kate Leth was one of the writers for that episode, and she *is* a misandrist. Not sure if she's a terf tho
@@TriforceChad That's not how transgender people work. He was a man all along, just born in a female body. besides you then gotta stick with "caraway was born a female so he is allowed to have emotions" or "Snapdragon is becoming a girl and that's why he's allowed to have emotions"
I'm only 6 minutes in but your entire opening topic applies to RWBY, despite what people may argue. That show had so much potential. :/
While I love RWBY (not as much as I used to), I have to agree with this statement. Of course, you might piss off the really hardcore RWBY fans who will defend this show to no end.
RWBY was one of those shows where you saw it during the first season and thought huh this is seriously flawed, but I can see the passion and it could be really good if they improved. And then they never improve and rather it just degrades over time just leaving you disappointed. I would say HGS is much worse than RWBY though. It would be like taking RWBY and taking out all the things that showed potential or were good and you'd be left with something akin to HGS.
As a long time fan of RWBY, I have to admit, I like it more because of the potential than what they actually gave. I do truly like RWBY, but it has always felt more like a series of ideas that then never get expanded upon than anything cohesive. That and a lot of stuff gets used for the "rule of cool" and then promptly forgotten. Remember when Weiss sped up Blake using glyphs? Remember when almost every single slash from Blake was inexplicably a ranged attack for a volume (2)?
So yeah, while I like RWBY's ideas, I do agree with a lot of the criticism that the execution of said ideas was not particularly good.
@@alexharris6808 Pretty much, yeah. And I’m a longtime RWBY fan, as well.
@@SweetOrangeGirl I could agree as well I’ve been binging the show for quite some time but dropped out after getting a sample of season 7. And after watching videos criticising the last 2 seasons and current actions of CRWBY, I’ve developed a distaste for this kind of writing. Which makes finding good crossover fanfiction for this show nigh impossible.
dave talking about HGS is like the only constant in my life
10:45
the funniest part about this to me is i have never watched this series before but i’ve been watching your reviews and such on it, and when you talked in your review about the triumvrate (or whatever its spelled as again??) i genuinely got them confused with the triad, i just thought they were two different names for the same group/organization- so uh i guess that proves your point?? LOL
The animation for this show looks unreasonably nice sometimes
LONG HAVE I AWAITED TO HEAR YOUR VOICE! DAVE!!!!
ANOTHER BANGER ESSAY
I've been subsisting listening to a lobster themed TH-camr talk about HGS. His videos were good, but so glad that you're back. Hope you enjoyed your time off.
What would have made a better season finale twist: the Guardians are kidnapping children and locking them in a fantasy life simulation to harvest some sort of essence from them. The Rot is a virus that was planted by the actual heroes, using it to break down the program and liberate the kids.
watching this in December right before Christmas
The movie where I noticed this "the movie is lying to you" thing most is in Frozen 2. They made Anna the queen and tried to make it seem like she was gonna be a great queen, but in the finale they had her basically destroy her own kingdom. She had to tear down a dam because some spirits were pissed about it, and it was gonna create a flood wave that was gonna wipe out all of Arendelle. The only reason why it wasnt, was because Elsa was able to make it to Arendelle and stop it (no clue how she and Nokk managed to go faster than a flood but o well), but Anna couldnt have known about it and she thought Elsa was actually dead. Anna should have known that a flood would have destroyed all food, tools, firewood and basically anything of use, so even if the flood didnt directly kill anybody, it would have killed the whole city by starvation and cold temperatures (it was set in the autumn, just before winter). She was basically willing and able to kill her own kingdom, that isnt the act of a good queen but everyone gloss over that...its like they dont realize how devastating a flood is, specially in the era when Frozen 2 is set.
What personally annoys me about that movie (beyond the fact that it is clearly a work in progress, not a finished product) is that at the ending, they present Anna as so regal and poised. She's.... not.
There's no way that she would just instantly be a perfect queen. As the "spare", she likely didn't receive extensive instruction on how to rule well (at least, not as much as Elsa would have), and throughout both movies she consistently makes decisions with her emotions. She's also rather impulsive. Loving your people (an explanation I normally see when people talk about what a great queen Anna will be) does not automatically mean that you will be a good leader. You can be a caring, affectionate person without having any of the qualities of a good leader. In all honesty, Anna will probably be a terrible queen.
And, this minor hill that I will die on, she is not nearly as collected and poised as she was in the ending. They changed her personality just to portray her as a good queen. She won't be.
@@LittleMezzoBird oh a soulmate! Yes, indeed. She consistantly makes horrible decitions! I do like her dress but it looks like they tried to out do Elsas coronation, they clearly favour her. And it also goes against what Anna and Elsa are supposed to be design wise, Elsa is supposed to be the glammy, sleek, movie icon, while Anna is supposed to be the poofy, frilly girl next door. What are they supposed to be now? Hippie and buisness suit?
The movie would have been better if they instead had reconnected Kristoff with his family(original desing hint to sami origin), and if they could have taken some inspiration from Once upon a time... now that was a good sequel! Not perfect, but it was good!
@@Sakuyamon Frozen II pains me. It fell so far below the hype they generated with the marketing (the marketing which seemed to indicate that it would focus more on Elsa), and it was a mess with no clear direction. What makes it worse is some of the stuff they were trying had plenty of potential.
Here's what I see that they were trying:
1) Elsa is not at home in Arendelle, feels she doesn't belong.
2) Elsa hears a mysterious voice that might or might not be connected to her powers.
3) There is a dark secret about the past that must be discovered.
4) There is some great danger threatening Arendelle.
5) Kristoff is trying to propose to Anna.
6) Olaf is struggling with the idea of change.
7) Anna is afraid to be alone.
Of these various plots and subplots, the only one that was properly pulled off was Olaf's. Kristoff's just took up valuable space that could have been used for something else, in addition to demonstrating that Kristoff and Anna are nowhere near ready for marriage. Everything else was kind of just jumbled together. Some of these things were lightly touched on then abandoned until the moment when they were resolved - at which point I had kind of forgotten that they were issues in the first place.
It was a movie that could have been massively better done - it had potential, the majority of those plots, if properly developed, would have been really interesting. But they weren't. I don't even know where to start in order to fix it.
HGS is like making a hamburger and forgetting to add the all beef patty, then expecting you take it at face value of 'trust us, its a delicious hamburger'.
Ayo! Welcome back! Also if no one has told I’ll you right now…… what a guardian is: it’s a generic hero that fights monsters. Don’t do no deep dives, I’m saving you the trouble and time, it’s a shallow puddle on the sidewalk so when I say it ain’t that deep it’s not. This show only shows “guardians” fighting monsters and those “guardians” are only lavender in the flashback and rosemary and co in episode 11. So in conclusion be cause this show doesn’t show “Guardians” doing anything else well…… with a keen eye for details only one truth prevails 👉that truth is guardians and generic heroes that fight monsters and that’s it.
Also don’t try deciphering the vows from the triad, it means nothing but chivalry.
Also if this show gets a season 2 then we can say Stranger Things has happened…….
That or it’s a sign of the apocalypse
Somehow you turn the phrase Double Standard into a 20 minute video and I love it! I can never get tired of watching these videos.
Say Guardian HQ, how do you feel about currently making it to 13K subscribers? You’re on a roll so I say keep up the good work. Our mental health wouldn’t be cured without your commentary on this show.
Of all places for this "the narrative lies straight to your face" phenomenon to happen, one of the most frustrating examples I've come across personally was in RuneScape.
See, in RS, there's a goddess named Seren. She's supposedly the god of peace, and she's the cultural leader of elves in RS' world. They worship her, they're a pretty isolationist race so not many other people worship or even know about Seren, etc etc. Now, important context: RS' story and writing underwent a massive overhaul at the end of 2012/start of 2013 where the writers went in HARD on developing characters, fleshing out the lore and generally moving in a more mature direction.
Out of this, we got some actual backstory and details about Seren! It turns out she's... actually just a horrible person, through and through. I won't explain the entire story of a 20-year-old game to you, but some highlights include: condemning an entire species to a slow and agonising extinction because she viewed them as inferior to her, getting a DIFFERENT species magically addicted to her presence such that if they're ever not in physical proximity to her, they go terminally mad, brainwashing two human kingdoms into sending CIVILIANS to battle a monster that killed every single one of them, and uhhhh oh yeah almost getting the literal entire universe destroyed.
But the story doesn't see her that way! No no, you see, she's just so compassionate, she's all-loving, she feels her emotions SO strongly. She does all of this because she's following her heart. She's the goddess of peace! You can't blame her for what she does, or be angry with her. She's only doing what she thinks is right. You're all just evil and mean and jealous of her!
It is actually, legitimately infuriating. The story presents you with all of these details about Seren, straight up, doesn't try to soften them or downplay the atrocity of what she does, AND STILL EXPECTS YOU TO AGREE THAT SHE'S A GOOD PERSON. The writers were so set on Seren being this blameless, all-loving mother figure that even when she's so wrong that ALL OF REALITY is at stake, the story still bends over backwards to portray her sympathetically and lets her win.
She went from an intriguing background character with some skeletons in her past to just an objectively abhorrent monster, all the time, unrelentingly. And the story wants you to love her and do what she says.
14:02 I just spotted another animation error. Rose's shoulder guards(?)/leather padding disappears when they cut back to her.
NEW UPLOAD? THAT'S ONE HECK OF A CHRISTMAS GIFT.
04:49
1. she-ra(reboot)
2. hbo's velma
3. ghostbusters 2016
4. the simpsons
5. adventure time
Thank you... You found the words to begin to say what has been bothering me in general...
Also thank you for looking into the thing with Wanda. I feel as sorry for the poor girl as anyone else but, and as much as I hate to have to tell you all, those who have killed her where right. I think that Wanda herself knows this on some level. It's her or you, it's literally everyone including her, or just her.
Justice for Agatha!... Ya she did the mind control. One one guy... Temporarily... To free him from Wanda's permanent mind control.
This video is a good Christmas present, I like that you talk about HGS there is still a lot of crap to analyze, Sage is the representation of the "diverse and awake" writers who want a set of rules that reinforces and rewards their toxic attitude I bet female writers have never had a healthy interaction with a straight white male.
WELCOME BAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!! talking about HGS is best thing ever XDDDDDDD
and yup the authors sadly faild to show us characters that behave according to their presumed traits which shows lack of experience in writing that makes the story inconsistent
I actually would like to see them remake the story into an at least a decent one, but they keep denying that the story has issues so I don't think we'll see a remake or 2nd season :-:
I've learnt a surprising amount from this channel about how to make a decent story by learning what went wrong with High Gardian Spice. Thanks for this.
What you’re describing in this video is something I like to call a “Plot Wormhole” unlike a “plot hole “ which is basically just a discrepancy, the wormhole is connecting to points of the story, while seemingly skipping something much like how a wormhole connects two points in space simultaneously.
The guardians are heroes because they are heroes. We don’t need to show anything.
Essentially they’re using peoples experience with media to tell the story for them so they don’t have to do any extra work
YOU PUT IT INTO WORDS. I am so THANKFUL, good video!!!
My favorite part is that you incorporated Rosemary's mom. As C puff says, Rosemary has no personality, and the authors try to fix that by having her mom be missing. Then they sometimes realize that Rosemary has no personality, and have to remind the audience that Rosemary is sad that her mom is missing.
This "anime" would be so much better if Rosemary aspired to be like her mom and is working with Sage and/or the crew to find more information on Lavender.
The problem is that she's a main character and has a) no personality b) the authors never really acted on the whole "Lavender is missing" thing, and c) she has less character development than a grain of rice.
Heck, I once watched someone paint some gorgeous calligraphy onto a single grain of rice, so that's *really* saying something.
@@meb4224 Help I don't know if you're being sarcastic
Backstory doesn't equal personality. A dead parent isn't just something you can whip out for no reason, otherwise it looses impact.
Does Rosemary blame herself and feel guilty about her mom's disappearance?
Does she go out of her way to be like her and feel bad when she's not?
Did her mother leave behind a request or some mystery for her to solve and if so does she do anything about it?
Does she befriend someone similar to her mother and try to fill that void?
Nope... she's just a blank slate with funky hair.
@@meb4224 the show could have been great if some actual effort and research was put into it. It could have been that rice. Instead it's just...cold mush.
@@HangryOnPaws If you make rice, you know the dissapointment and utter dread when you forget to use it all and it becomes porridge with the scent of alcohol.
YEEESSSS YA BACK
0:00 Best return!
I elect to call it _'Contra Facie'_ Writing.
*Prima facie* - you may have heard this in court, it's Latin means "First Face" Literally, or "at face value"
Well contra facie would be the opposite: "Against face"
"Writing that is contradictory or dishonest not as a tool for narrative purposes like "misdirection" but due to ineptitude and/or author bias."
A character who say... _puts up a barrier, kidnaps, then mind-rapes a town because she's sad, later to let the barrier down when confronted_ is a *villain.* on the face of it. It is then contra facie writing to have a this maniac character call out another for pointing guns at her to make her stop OR having another character state that her giving up the evil gambit is a _"sacrifice they will never understand."_ It's insulting, it's stupid, it's contradictory, *it is a lie*
This kind of writing reveals the biases and hatred of terrible people
Say what you want about Aster, Rosemary and Sage are infinitely worse than him. Rosemary outright nearly kills a girl for carelessly swinging a heavy sword around in a crowded market. And Sage is a controlling LGBTQ domestic abuse statistic. The *BLLLLATANT* Author Self-insert Calloway is a *child groomer* who makes transgenderism his defining personality trait. That Aster is considered worthy of immediate retribution for his behavior, but Rosemary and Sage are treated as quirky and slightly misguided shows the internal machinations of the writers.
The problem then isn't the attributes of the character, it's a personal bias and hatred of men that the writers have. Their marketing showed their intentions the whole time. Contra facie writing, aka a Fools Propaganda.
I believe what you're describing is called Protagonist Centered Morality.
I KNEW IT! I KNEW High Guardian Academy was evil! S2 would reveal that the true villains are playing both sides
Maybe the true villains are the friends we drink coco with along the way..
Sage is the real antagonist
Another example would be Captain America and the winter soldier. The ‘bad’ Captain America is a multiple time Purple Heart recipient. Who is routinely trying to work with Bucky and Sam and receives derision for trying and being hired as a government position as Captain America. And after he witnesses battle stars death, his friend, he takes out a super powered terrorist who is running toward civilians which thanks to camera work and sound design sets him up as a ‘villain’. After this he finds Bucky and Sam and asks them if they’re ok. At which point he gets assaulted and the shield US gov. property worth billions. It’s insane.
That analogy that you gave definitely sounds like the 6th episode of this show
Return of the king
The King is back :D
The triad even harms multiple children.
The Triumverante really just harms 2.
Boom.
That was a perfect opening lmfao
Was looking for something to use as background noise and this popped up, another rant of hgs let's go
Great to have you back :)
Nice to have you back, King
your theories for the show sound cooler than the actual show
Honestly when you said the part about how everybody praises the protagonist but he beats up dogs in his spare time, the first thing I thought of was Patrick Bateman from American psycho 🤣😭💀
That your "B-Roll" was WandaVision worked to perfectly to prove your point even before analysis for it to just be random.
Tv Tropes calls it ‘’Designated Hero‘’, A hero that is only the good guy in the eyes of their author. This kind of character usually come with what BlackLightJack calls a ‘’Moral Scapegoat‘’, a character that exist only to make the designated hero looks like a better person.
I think Erin Yeager in AOT is an excellent example of making a villain protagonist done right. He doesn't seem entirely wrong at first, but you realize just how bad he is while he only sees himself as the good guy but the show doesn't frame it that way
The problem you described is similar to First Draft Syndrome. That's when the writer just makes up the story as they go along and never bothered checking if the whole thing made sense. Scenes just happen in the order the writer thought of them, if cause and effect ever comes into play it's reversed because scrolling back up to add it earlier in the story is something you'd do on a second draft.
Damn I'm early, I love your videos
"dramatic irony" the audience having information that the characters don't, however, for the case of HGS, it's just bad writing. It's incredible really, that you can come up with an entire different plot for the show that the creators probably didn't even thought of