I planted both in my yard. They’re native here in Minnesota, and I wanted them for all the qualities you discussed. They’re two of my favorite trees. Fun to see them here! 😊
More Hop Hornbeam(Ironwood, locally) than American Hornbeam(Blue beech) in these parts, but both common. What's really neat, is when you find them growing right next to each other. Literally, within a foot. Great way to compare the two.
We have Blue Beech in the St Croix river valley of Minnesota and Wisconsin border land as well as other areas. And Ironwood is common in across in central Minnesota as well. Both very dense wood understory trees. Thanks for the video.
Ha - this popped up in my feed, and I thought- that’s a familiar looking forest. Then you said “Kingston” and I laughed. I’m in NNY - near Alex Bay - like 40 miles from you. And yes, we suffer the same confusion here on the south side of the river in regard to hornbeam/hop hornbeam. It’s especially bad because, like you said, they like the same conditions and frequently grow together. I was hiking this week with my grandson, and he just thought it was funny that two different trees had such similar names - and I had to agree with him!
I wondered why I hadn't seen one of your videos in awhile.. now I realize you must have changed your channel name ;) Glad I found you again, but it doesn't look like you will be doing much canoeing any time soon!
Great video. I have a Hornbeam (i.e. Blue Beech) hiking stick that I have had for over 25 years. It is still strong. Most of the bark is still on it but where the bark is gone, I can see nice wood grain underneath.
I live in Sudbury, and recently discovered an ironwood (hop hornbeam) growing on a snowshoe trail near me. It is in second growth deciduous forest in an area that was logged for white pine, burned over, and was subject to (local source) acid precipitation 1950-1980. I was quite surprised! The forest looks quite normal now, unless you know it's history, and can recognize some of the effects (fewer conifers, some older copsed maple and birch, less moss in general, fewer fungi species).
Do you see much blackthorn on your travels, I would like to get a stick or two , thinking about making myself a shillelagh and I would love to keep it traditional, but plant identification has never been a strong suite ( I've had poison ivy 13 times, lol)
We don't have that species in Ontario - at least I don't think we do. We do have common buckthorn and hawthorn. It would be great to make your own shillelagh.
@TheHappyCamper you are correct, I went and looked again, I thought I had seen it on a list of invasive species, but it was the buckthorn ..... guess now I have a legit excuse to head to Ireland 🤔
Here in Indiana we find Carpinus caroliniana on the north-facing slopes and the more mesic sites. Ostrya virginiana is often found on drier sites and poorer soils. Ostrya virginiana is commonly found under even-aged stands of Shagbark hickory.
Happy New Year Kevin! Many thanks for this and all of your contributions on TH-cam. I know you provide some in-person sessions and have several books on the outdoors and canoeing, but can you recommend a book or quick-reference sheet/URL for tree identification, especially in the Winter? With backcountry hot-tenting really taking off, it would be nice to have a good reference source on this to identify fuel sources. Many thanks again and can’t wait for your next contribution. All the best in 2025.
My old fishin' buddy had a walking stick that he said was hop hornbeam that was from the mountains of Tennessee or maybe North Carolina. Most of it was stripped of bark but it had some left at the top. It was a really cool staff, and seemed super strong.
A great and informative video. I don't believe that I have ever seen a Blue Beech, but most certainly have seen Ironwood. In fact I tried to make an axe handle out of a dead Ironwood. Emphasis on tried. Happy New Year
I'm living along the Ottawa river, in Petawawa, Ontario, about 150 km west of Ottawa, and there's a couple of hornbeams (Carpinus caroliniana) that I've sopotted in one of our parks, the Centennial Park. They grow next to hophornbeams (Ostrya virginiana), which have a slightly wider range in this park.
Here in Northern Wisconsin, I am familiar with both Ironwood and Beech trees. I don't know if I have seen any Blue Beech before, perhaps I wasn't paying attention and just assumed they were all regular Beech based on the bark. I will have to look closer now, thanks for the education. I am assuming the Blue Beech have different seeds, than the regular Beech which produces a small nut inside a furry casing.
I grew up knowing “blue beech” as “musclewood” and “hop horn beam” as “ironwood”. But, where I live now, there is no “musclewood” and “ironwood” is called “hardack”. That’s why we have scientific names!
Hi Kevin - It was I who asked about the ironwood tree in your previous video. I appreciated your response and very much appreciate this video. For me the confusion results from the Peterson Field Guide “Eastern Trees” which , at plate 35, labels the Carpinus caroliniana as Ironwood and Ostrya virginiana as “eastern hornbeam”. I had written in my book that what Peterson calls Ironwood is actually blue beech or musclewood, exactly as you have just clarified, and that what Peterson calls eastern hornbeam is actually hophornbeam or ironwood - again as you have just confirmed. Seems to be confirmation that Peterson is wrong. I live in Ottawa and wonder what the chances of finding a blue beech in the natural forest are.
Thanks so much for getting me thinking and the inspiration for this video. It is definitely a confusing one. I have that book and will now look through it.
All these sorts of confusing common names are the reason people who want to be clear in their statements use latin taxonomic names. Too often when some hear this in speech, they assume the individual is being pretentious.
Good point. I would walk into the techs office using the scientific names but never use them while teaching the young students - they would loose interest immediately if I did.
I didn't know they used ironwood for plane props. I have quite a bit of it on my land in western Michigan near Lake Michigan (8 miles or so from the lake in Oceana Co.)
Love these videos Kevin thanks, reminds me of my late father (who worked for the MNR) who could go on like this about any tree I happened to point out when we were on a walk.
Kevin you are way more entertaining than re-reading my very old and worn copy of Native Trees of Canada to refresh my aging brain.
LOL. I lived off that book during my school time.
@@TheHappyCamper It was my dendrology text book at SSFC back in the 70s.
Blue beech was so stunning to me as a child it was one of the first trees I identified. Beautiful little tree.
I planted both in my yard. They’re native here in Minnesota, and I wanted them for all the qualities you discussed. They’re two of my favorite trees. Fun to see them here! 😊
The Blue Beech is a nice understory tree and the Ironwood fruit pods are cool to see as well.
A fortunate happening that I stumbled onto your channel... SUBSCRIBED!! And Happy New Year!!
More Hop Hornbeam(Ironwood, locally) than American Hornbeam(Blue beech) in these parts, but both common. What's really neat, is when you find them growing right next to each other. Literally, within a foot. Great way to compare the two.
We have Blue Beech in the St Croix river valley of Minnesota and Wisconsin border land as well as other areas. And Ironwood is common in across in central Minnesota as well. Both very dense wood understory trees. Thanks for the video.
Hop hornbeam makes a great all wood longbow. I've made over 80 bows with it.
Ha - this popped up in my feed, and I thought- that’s a familiar looking forest. Then you said “Kingston” and I laughed.
I’m in NNY - near Alex Bay - like 40 miles from you.
And yes, we suffer the same confusion here on the south side of the river in regard to hornbeam/hop hornbeam. It’s especially bad because, like you said, they like the same conditions and frequently grow together.
I was hiking this week with my grandson, and he just thought it was funny that two different trees had such similar names - and I had to agree with him!
I wondered why I hadn't seen one of your videos in awhile.. now I realize you must have changed your channel name ;)
Glad I found you again, but it doesn't look like you will be doing much canoeing any time soon!
Great video. I have a Hornbeam (i.e. Blue Beech) hiking stick that I have had for over 25 years. It is still strong. Most of the bark is still on it but where the bark is gone, I can see nice wood grain underneath.
I live in Sudbury, and recently discovered an ironwood (hop hornbeam) growing on a snowshoe trail near me. It is in second growth deciduous forest in an area that was logged for white pine, burned over, and was subject to (local source) acid precipitation 1950-1980. I was quite surprised! The forest looks quite normal now, unless you know it's history, and can recognize some of the effects (fewer conifers, some older copsed maple and birch, less moss in general, fewer fungi species).
Really interesting. It's definitely a sturdy species, except for its week root system. They seem to tumble over easily when they get older.
Do you see much blackthorn on your travels, I would like to get a stick or two , thinking about making myself a shillelagh and
I would love to keep it traditional, but plant identification has never been a strong suite ( I've had poison ivy 13 times, lol)
We don't have that species in Ontario - at least I don't think we do. We do have common buckthorn and hawthorn. It would be great to make your own shillelagh.
@TheHappyCamper you are correct, I went and looked again, I thought I had seen it on a list of invasive species, but it was the buckthorn ..... guess now I have a legit excuse to head to Ireland 🤔
@@jasonmcclennan6443 It's a great excuse. A trip to Ireland would be amazing.
Here in Indiana we find Carpinus caroliniana on the north-facing slopes and the more mesic sites. Ostrya virginiana is often found on drier sites and poorer soils. Ostrya virginiana is commonly found under even-aged stands of Shagbark hickory.
Same here with Shagbark Hickory. They both love the same soil type.
Happy New Year Kevin! Many thanks for this and all of your contributions on TH-cam. I know you provide some in-person sessions and have several books on the outdoors and canoeing, but can you recommend a book or quick-reference sheet/URL for tree identification, especially in the Winter? With backcountry hot-tenting really taking off, it would be nice to have a good reference source on this to identify fuel sources. Many thanks again and can’t wait for your next contribution. All the best in 2025.
I watch this TH-camr a lot for some of that info. www.youtube.com/@LearnYourLand
@ Awesome - thanks for the “referral”!
My old fishin' buddy had a walking stick that he said was hop hornbeam that was from the mountains of Tennessee or maybe North Carolina. Most of it was stripped of bark but it had some left at the top. It was a really cool staff, and seemed super strong.
It would make an excellent walking stick.
Love the new videos with nature identification.
Love the form factor of the trunk and branches of the hop hornbeam!
A great and informative video. I don't believe that I have ever seen a Blue Beech, but most certainly have seen Ironwood. In fact I tried to make an axe handle out of a dead Ironwood. Emphasis on tried. Happy New Year
They say you have to set it in the axe head while still green for some reason.
I'm living along the Ottawa river, in Petawawa, Ontario, about 150 km west of Ottawa, and there's a couple of hornbeams (Carpinus caroliniana) that I've sopotted in one of our parks, the Centennial Park. They grow next to hophornbeams (Ostrya virginiana), which have a slightly wider range in this park.
Cool. That's far north for them - but the climate and soil conditions match.
Here in Northern Wisconsin, I am familiar with both Ironwood and Beech trees. I don't know if I have seen any Blue Beech before, perhaps I wasn't paying attention and just assumed they were all regular Beech based on the bark. I will have to look closer now, thanks for the education. I am assuming the Blue Beech have different seeds, than the regular Beech which produces a small nut inside a furry casing.
Yes, the Blue Beech create a "nutlet" which birds like grouse and turkey love.
Love the tree ID, K. TY!
What is the best degree/diploma to learn more about native species?
It depends where you live but a Fish & Wildlife Tech diploma would work. That's what I taught.
Why doesn't Tim sell snowtrecker?
Snowtrecker doesn't sell through stores or he would. However, they do now have a Canadian dealer through Lure of the North.
in espanola? @@TheHappyCamper
@@redsresearch Yes.
Thank Kevin!
I will have to look into the blue beach closer next time we need a tree. I see you have the black squirrels up there.
We have black and the grey, and the red squirrel.
I have also noticed that the squirrels in the Kingston area are very docile
I am surprised, especially with the high coyote population.
I thought musclewood was called that because the trunk looks like a super veiny thick muscle
Yes, that too. I forgot to mention that point.
Who made your hoodie? It looks warm.
It's a Ivanhoe wool Pentland hoodie from Sweden. I love it! www.canadianoutdoorequipment.com/ivanhoe-mens-nls-pentland-wool-hoodie.html
Blue beech seems to rot way faster than hop horn beam.
Dead standing hophornbeam is incredible firewood
Thank you Kevin. Very informative, even though, quite squirrely.
LOL.
well this was a bit confusing but interesting , I shall have a look next time I am out in the woods thanks Kevin
it is very confusing. More to come with that subject. LOL
look forward to continuation.
I grew up knowing “blue beech” as “musclewood” and “hop horn beam” as “ironwood”. But, where I live now, there is no “musclewood” and “ironwood” is called “hardack”. That’s why we have scientific names!
Hi Kevin - It was I who asked about the ironwood tree in your previous video. I appreciated your response and very much appreciate this video. For me the confusion results from the Peterson Field Guide “Eastern Trees” which , at plate 35, labels the Carpinus caroliniana as Ironwood and Ostrya virginiana as “eastern hornbeam”. I had written in my book that what Peterson calls Ironwood is actually blue beech or musclewood, exactly as you have just clarified, and that what Peterson calls eastern hornbeam is actually hophornbeam or ironwood - again as you have just confirmed. Seems to be confirmation that Peterson is wrong.
I live in Ottawa and wonder what the chances of finding a blue beech in the natural forest are.
Thanks so much for getting me thinking and the inspiration for this video. It is definitely a confusing one. I have that book and will now look through it.
Thank you for doing that.
All these sorts of confusing common names are the reason people who want to be clear in their statements use latin taxonomic names. Too often when some hear this in speech, they assume the individual is being pretentious.
Good point. I would walk into the techs office using the scientific names but never use them while teaching the young students - they would loose interest immediately if I did.
so many squirrels....
I counted 16 in total. LOL
@@TheHappyCamper I recently learned that a group of squirrels is called a "scurry".
I didn't know they used ironwood for plane props. I have quite a bit of it on my land in western Michigan near Lake Michigan (8 miles or so from the lake in Oceana Co.)
Love these videos Kevin thanks, reminds me of my late father (who worked for the MNR) who could go on like this about any tree I happened to point out when we were on a walk.
Those walks sound awesome.