It's not just hip hop but it could be
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- I discuss a Beato video about music production. Drum sampling, autotune, editing and recording techniques are all ripped to shreds on a highly caffeinated rant. Hip Hop Lite.
buymeacoffee.c...
TONY BLACK is a Grammy-winning music producer, mixer/engineer & songwriter/musician. He has contributed to recordings totaling more than 80 million units sold or downloaded.
He won a GRAMMY AWARD for his contribution to the album “THE DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS” for BEST R&B ALBUM.
He also mixed and recorded “RIDE OR DIE” on the Grammy-winning album JAY-Z “HARD KNOCK LIFE VOL.2”
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Fear not, hip hop content will return with a vengeance...excuse me while I poke the bear.
What made it seem powerful for the golden era was that it came into prominence from a fledgling art form. I’d argue that would be impossible to duplicate. However, a revival of a genre is possible, but how mainstream it would get is anyone’s guess. That being said, some would argue it never went away, a la Bandcamp, TH-cam
@@defcreator187 deep
sorry I left a word out of my comment...hip hop "content' will return...thanks!
@@TonyBlackNYC all that steam for nothing, lol
@@dornie_donko actually what you said was great but your comment made me realize I messed up mine, thanks.
I love old man youtube beef
😂
Grow up. It’s a philosophy issue. Try “adulting” it’s really not as bad as you think.
@@unc1589 I believe that original comment was meant as a joke…least that’s how I took it… chill out 😎
@@ScorpioCoaster Yes, certainly a joke
@@unc1589 Haha!
To sample, or not to sample, that is the question
This is my favorite youtube channel right now. I love the insights, and having a nice ltitle counter point to Beato is cool
Love the RZA stories 😂
Should be it’s own mini series
I watched that Rick piece.
Rick is at a disadvantage in 2024 because he’s a purest. I love getting off on particulars with him.
The bending of the note and such. He can interview iconic musicians like nobody’s business. He just doesn’t have that other thing.
And those who really rock with him are aging out. Unfortunately. Because his opinions still have value.
Tony worked the Hit Factory with icons that today’s generation are familiar with. Nuff said.
I’ve been in the basement of the newer Hit Factory back in the day. The one with all the gear. “Dreamland” I’d call it.
Every modern producer alive today wants to play with those toys trust me!
Production was a secret back in the 90s.
I don’t know how many times I said “ohhhh” watching this channel. I’m having a ball.
My question to Tony is, how did the engineers do it? Did they EQ/FX on the way in (to like the MPC 3000) or on the 8 outs ?
Or both?
Which is more important?
Did they just get a good solid sample and tweak it on the way back out?
Or was the focus on saving the kit already readied up?
I always wondered.
fuck yeah man i love that you and rick lighting it up
😂 luv the rza story at the end
“Naaah!”
So glad TH-cam recommended your channel. I really appreciate your insights. Also major ASMR vibes from your voice - it’s relaxing.
I listen to it, to put myself to sleep
I was a recording engineer for a time in the 70's and know what the process was for mastering and pressing vinyl and there was a lot to it. Then I see all this vinyl resurgece and think okay who's is working on mastering vinyl these days, back in my day it would of been the vinyl mastering engineer, the record engineer who mixed the album, and possibly the producer. They are were involved in listen to the the mastering being done because the sound was being changed by RIAA curve, amount of time to be cut for a side of an album effected depth of grove and spacing. It was involved who is doing that today? Then pressing vinyl the quality of vinyl, use of recycled vinyl mixed in to same money, then making of the stamper plates and most important how often the stamper plates were replaced with fresh plates. Again is any of that being done today?
the mind is infinite. creativity aint dead, if ppl would just do what they want musically and stop riding trends music might be a lot better
amp modelers are great for tweaking amp settings in mix. maybe you need a bit more drive in the chorus, etc. and there are lots of ways to achieve this. one of my favorite is driving the neve style preamp harder in different sections.
capture "the spark" any way you can. you can tweak the amp sound later with software if you have a clean DI
perfect cut at the end!
the hardest part of recording is capturing a performance with "the spark"
Q : what about that sub bass frequency Tony. Techmaster PEB. I'll keep asking until you say yay or nay if you have anything let me know it's been a mystery of mine since a kid so come on man let the genie out of the bottle for me PLEASE!!!!!
I'll work on it, thanks.
Beato is stuck in the past. He's completely out of touch with today's music culture. He's unable to critique music without bias.
you have no idea what music actually was.
it was music. just like it is now.
to be fair we all have biases...
Great VId DOGG... Loved your Drum review" They spent sometimes days, weeks to months to get great drum sounds. The FOO fighters re recorded their whole first album because the Dave Grohl wasnt' Happy with the drums sounds. Not only did they re=-record the drums but everything guitars, bass etc...Also love your commentary on Amp Modelers, Line 6 and Sansamp made great modelers years before plugins amps came into the fold. To me, these are all tools, whatever gets the greatest result is the winner. It could be a cheap mic over an expensive one, a guitar modelers, a left field mic pre etc... its more about who is behind the controls IMO.
what are your thoughts on the modern day workflow (samplers/daws). I find they lack the intuitiveness and simplicty of older gear (ensoniq boards especially, sp1200,mpc60/3k etc etc). With the exception of time consuming chopping, the workflow of the, say, the asr-10 had egress...that allowed for a stronger mind to machine connection. Now a days, its all menu diving and shoddy button placement (looking at you Inmusic). More button pushing than pad triggering. The most overlooked design feature is placement and egress. NI got it right with the Maschine, though the sequencing/arranging was quite the learning curve. I could get into the Sonics but id beating a dead horse.
love your content. would you mind showing us your set up and why you chose those pieces of hardware or software????
I concur. Would love to know Tony’s complete gear list and computer plugins/recommendations
Maybe switch to just two cups of coffee, Tony. :) Kidding. Enjoying the content.
Damn RZA!😀 That´s a gem. Thank you
he was like "NAAA"
drum sample/replacement. making a pristine recording of a drum in an exquisite room is not a drum performance. there's also the "kung-fu movie" effect of hearing the same 4 samples for each hit, machine gun fills, etc. and i'm speaking as someone who loves industrial music, hard quantization on *some* parts.
what's really hard about using drum samples for big rock drums is the midi programming. making the midi sound "real".... the sample recording could be fine but without programming it "like a drummer" it will sound stiff, boring, etc. let's just say its still hard to do well.
I think it's audience capture. If you ever read the live chat comments on his streams it's almost entirely sad old guys being all "git off my lawn" about anything recorded after 1989. The absolute worst snobbery and prejudice, and the total opposite of music lovers.
I think his people figure he has to throw them a bone and do a "things ain't what they used to be" video every so often.
Mutt Lange made my favorite drum sound on Shania Twains "Man, I Feel Like A Woman" and "Don't Impress Me Much"
Loving the content, Glad I subbed 🚀
Rick Beato’s analysis hits the nail on the head. The whole quantizing and automation process takes the human soul out of music. I also see this happening in other fields of art, for instance architecture and photography. Computer automation and perfection processes put such a strong mark on its outcome. The result might be considered as optimal according to certain parameters but its product is often predictable, average and replacable. Rough edges make music and art so much more interesting. You need an artist with creative skills to add those rough edges. Drum samples and amp modelers are nice to have, but if you use presets again you will end up with predictable outcome. I rather listen to a recording of a non conventional setup than some fancy sampled/ amp modded and perfectly tweaked predictable one ear in and out the other product. I completely understand that mastering those tweaks is a skill as well, but looking at the top charts these days i cannot conclude that such skills lead to interesting new music. Btw, contemporary hiphop is very predictable and soulless. The creativity we have seen in early hiphop is just not there anymore.
I understand the frustration making music these days when a computer can easily manipulate giving advantage 2 non-players which muddies the waters and then AI will be used for commercial use. Every company will just type in prompts and have easily accessible jingles without having to pay a real life musician or Studio musicians or even someone like you Tony because eventually AI will be able to bounce and master to predetermined specifications which will enable the at home user to mimic all studio and live recording settings at the push of a button
You're both right , but I think Rick meant that using the exact same techniques leads to less creative and innovative sound in a lot of modern pop.
It's not against a specific technology , just the ease of a cookie cutter sound.
... meanwhile in the corner Alicia Keys squeals " I GOT IT !!! "
Beato makes some good points, but he overlooks certain things. I thought he was trying to manipulate the audience when he played Bonhams quantized drums *_with the click track_* so we couldn't accurately compare it to the raw drums
I found that peculiar also
13:00 Rza lost a lot of recorded music in 1994 from a flood
i m a recording engineer and studio owner for 20years who is being paid for the work fulltime. also happen to have a studio arsenal of drums AND have a top digital roland kit with SD3 at home for fun. for a pro drummer its much more difficult to have balance on an e-drum btw. . its easier to get a good performance on real drums if we re talking real musical performance. yes for hippy hoppy and more electronic music its all completely different. rick was right, but it doesnt translate to all genres thats why you misunderstood him. also his rant is more about working together and be in the spirit without insta open etc….
Who's some of your favorite modner Hip-Hop Producers? (It's cool if you don't have any)
gonna need a minute on that one.
🤣 I bet you you were really his dog at that point .. he heard your mixing ... yo I'm not gonna lie the ghost face ironman album is the best solo mixed album.... I love that album... did you mix fish? arguably one of the dopest wu tracks ever made ...made by true master .... if you watch Raekwon and ghosts drink champs they talk about that.... the drums on faster blade was special.... soul controller was special too ... that w is bright on that album .. monumental release
yes the whole thing. tru master is a great dude. I also recorded and mixed "sweet love"method man, produced by tru
I think It could
Rick himself tried to make a trap beat over a Drake song and it sounded way worse than the original
that sounds scary
Beato complains about auto tune and then complains if a note is off.
we're all crazy
@@TonyBlackNYC Rick always talks about drumming being quantized and become too perfect and too on grid.
However if a great drummer in analyzed in a DAW you can take note of where they play off grid and then
if you were to create a drum track with midi samples on a grid you just throw off parts of the kit off grid in the same way
John Bonham or some other great drummer might have done. Or you have some newer drum program and hit some "humanize" button
and it automatically moves certain parts of the kit off grid and you can use different degrees of "swing" controls.
Rick is stuck in the 80s when these programs came out and a lot of synthy New Wave stuff was grid "perfect".
You could also analyze some great drummer like Steve Gad and have a much finer grid like a 128th note grid .
So these so called "of grid" notes could be "on grid" if the grid is finer scale.
So you have several drummers, A.I. analyzes the nuances of their style where they play "off grid", these minute
positions and use that information to simulate their style. So this becomes options in a drum program.
You select a drum pattern and then there's a filter which render the pattern with various "off grid" nuances
in the style of : Ash Soan, Quest Love or Steve Gad or Bernard Purdie
and the program simulates their style.
Same thing with Autotune. Somebody like Rick or Wings of Pegasus comes along and listening to some recent pop song
and says "this sounds too perfect it's not human"
So at this point you refer to a great raw vocal with no Autotune and take meticulous notes of certain
slightly out of tunes notes and at what times they occur or A.I. just does it
Then take, say a terrible vocalist you are recording, Autotune most of it but then add in those
irregularities. . Or you have some program that has a "humanize" button and it throws certain notes
You could have a drop down menu "Sinatra" "Freddie Mercury" , "Marvin Gaye"
And without being a simulation of their vocal sound it could take their the vocal throws certain notes slightly
out of tune in the same position one of these great singers or more than one by percenatges
The point is once you have a complaint about a drum pattern or vocal being too perfect
you can also simulate imperfections either by hand moving a snare behind on certain measures
or throwing some notes on a vocal slightly off but not in a random way, in a way that simulates
how great musicians might do these subtle irregularities.
😎✌🏿
Wow I just saw that video this morning and I left a comment and I love Rick Beato because I understand him because I’ve played bass since 1975 and I’ve lived through all the changes in music writing, recording and touring and when I heard run dmc say we’re rocking without a band and weren’t kidding
I went to a concert and they had a dj with two dudes rapping and three microphones and a few monitors on the stage and that’s it and it blew my mind but the crowd was way into it and I realized that this is the wave of the future and as long as the buying public keeps buying the trend will continue so in a way I agree with Rick because I sacrificed years learning how to be a GOOD bass player. it’s not as much about talent and more about catchy songs and technology has made it easier than ever because you don’t have to be talented you just need the right software and some spare time and when everybody is special it means nobody is special
Everyone else being a loser makes you a loser too? Nice logic and nice excuse why you are a loser
I remember musicians did not take kindly to Hip Hop in the start and drummers not being fond of the Drum machines also. But I can honestly say from working at a Major music store that if I had a Nickle for every one doing Hip Hop that asked me if I knew a good Bass player, Keyboardist, Drummer etc I would be rich. Larry Smith the man responsible for the sound of Run DMC was a multi instrumentalist before Hip Hop. And also played Bass, Guitar, Drums & programing on their records. An instrumentalist with a well trained ear that knows technology has the key to the city.
Talent has never been the end all and be all in any endeavor. People who are very talented fail all the time. The mistake you make is assuming that since you’re talented, people should want to hear what you do. If you’re talented in classical music, you’re still likely not going to heard because that isn’t where people are at as far as the consumption of music.
Have the software on computer doesn’t insure any type of success either.
With any type of success, talent, timing, and business acumen converge to product good outcomes. If talent alone determines outcomes, maybe the music would be better. Maybe it wouldn’t.
@@matthewgaines10
This is true
It takes skill to rock a show without a band & backing track the way old school rappers did.
Nah! 🤣
we did laugh...and I never told him
@TonyBlackNYC That's some man shit. Just 2 dudes showing up & getting the job done. I wish he would've backed up those 200 or beats he lost in the flood. That's one of the worst tragedies in Hip-Hop.
lol ! btw,,what IS your name !?
I DON'T THINK RICK BEATO WAS WORRIED THAT MUCH ABOUT THE DRUM OR GUITAR SOUNDS, RICK WAS FOCUSED AND SPEAKING ON THE HUMAN FEEL. AND WHEN A HUMAN BEING IS NOT PLAYING AN INSTRUMENT, IT'S NOT GOING TO SOUND BETTER OR HAVE REAL FEELING AND MOTION. WHEN HUMAN BEINGS ARE PLAYING INSTRUMENTS IN A PROFESSIONAL STUDIO, NO COMPUTER CAN COMPARE. AND THAT'S NOT UP FOR DEBATE. THE ONLY TIME WHEN BEAT MACHINE'S AND SAMPLES MIGHT WORK IS WITH REAL HIP-HOP MUSIC. BECAUSE THAT'S BASICALLY HOW WE ALL STARTED HEARING HIP-HOP MUSIC, AFTER THE SUGAR HILL GANG ERA.