Super Mario Bros. Pushes the Limits of the NES more than any other game!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
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Super Mario Bros. is the most technically impressive NES game, don't believe me? Watch the video where I explain why and how.
00:00 Intro
00:40 Sponsorship
02:20 Back into it with the history of NES cartridges
06:50 Mapper 0 games overview
09:35 Level compression
13:54 Title screen hidden in pattern table
15:18 Could it have been better?
17:00 Ending waffle - เกม
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I don't know anyone you named and I wouldn't touch some fucking mobile game with a 39 and a half foot pole thank you very much
@@orsonzedd I share your view on mobile games, but I also understand that people who make videos need to make money somehow, and advertising is the only way without asking fans to donate money. For me, I would just fast forward past the ad.
I do admit though, that the time spent on this ad at the beginning and end of this video was pretty excessive. I don't know if the channel host gets more money the more time he spends on the ad, or if he's just genuinely wants people to sign up for the more substantial confirmed customer referrals. Either way though, I think if that much time is going to be spent on something off-topic to this video, then I think it should be devoted to it's own video, and he can talk about everything he likes about it there.
@@EriknocTDW and I know the dude has to make money but this is basically just gambling for kids. Like I don't think that there is a morally defensible position for advertising for free to play mobile games. I mean at least with real gambling sometimes walk away with actual money
@@Igorooooleynikov LOL. Thanks for that generic 5-star positive "review", Igor.
I’ll pass but I support you getting that money
50% of comments: Micro Mages exists
Are you familiar with "Micro Mages" by Morphcat Games? They set out to make a game that fits into the 40 Kb limit, without any mappers. They even posted a video about how they fit the game into 40 Kb. :D
th-cam.com/video/ZWQ0591PAxM/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=MorphcatGames
Damn, beat me to it! Micro Mages for sure.
"How they fit the game into 40 Kb"
*shows no code and doesn't talk about the game engine at all*
Micro Mages surely would have blown some minds had it come out back in the day!
I was about to mention that one, really impressive piece of homebrew
...hold up, there is no record whatsoever for the NES version of Pacland? BRB
It's so fascinating to see how the NES evolved over its lifespan. It was originally intended to be a marginally better offering to something like the Colecovision or Atari 7800 (i.e., limited to producing fairly faithful arcade ports). Not only did Super Mario Bros. open the Pandora's box of what the console was capable of, it actually defined what a home video game was to be at its core. It was no longer about the single screen, mundane tedium of racking up points in an endless void. It was about exploring an entire world and actually completing a quest (finishing the game). I'll never forget what an experience it was seeing a scrolling screen for the first time. Looking back, not only was this an incredible technical feat at the time, it was also quite a powerful statement of how Nintendo was redefining what a video game was at its essence.
10:15 Its well known that they used the same graphic for clouds as they did for trees, just in diffrent colours of course. Sprites that are symetrical (like the goombas) where one half of the sprite mirrored to create the other half of the sprite. Also the sound used to go down a pipe is the same sound used as when big mario takes damage. Entire levels were re-used.............level 2-3 and 7-3 are identical in design, only difference is 7-3 has extra enemies.
Sorry - you did mention the clouds/trees.
Surprised the mention of repeating level layouts hasnt been mentioned.
it was... *kind of*
When making graphic hacks for the original smb game I was always curious about what those graphics were for in the bottom right, now I know!
I think the homebrew game Micro Mages might be a bit more advanced than SMB1, while also working on just 40 kb
@Tommaso Orlando he said near the end he can't even think of modern homebrew games that did as well under the same constraints
@@TheMoney9999 he said "outpace", and Micro Mages doesn't seem to outpace SMB1, it seems to only "do as well". But I might be wrong.
micro mages isn't doing anything smb1 isn't not that groundbreaking and a gam that culd have been done back then
@@michealpersicko9531 I don't think 8x8 sprites would go well back in 1980s, the game would look a bit too unreadable on contemporary CRTs. But apart from that yes, it could have been done.
@@michealpersicko9531 Actually, it's also doing 4-player co-op. SMB1 never did co-op, not even for 2 players.
This is why Micro Mages uses 8x8 sprites.
Well, I can't argue about that SMB is, indeed, the most impressive game on the original hardware of Famicom. Specially if we compare with the existing Japanese 8-bits computers at the time, like PC-88, Sharp X1 or MSX which were pretty limited in terms of scrolling horizontally. Speaking of which, by the way, could you make a "Games which push limits" episode with one of those computers I mentioned? I do really enjoy your research!
I wonder whether Nintendo where the first to have this hardware accelerated scrolling which proved so successful for home consoles. The tile-based graphics system was also quite a success apparently.
@@cube2fox Colecovision was probably the first to do that. The NES shares a lot of hardware similarities with the Colecovision. Tile based graphics is successful because it's really simple and CPU cycle efficient compared to the alternatives, like bitmap display commonly found in computers. It has limitations though such as only being able to show a few sprites per scanline and you're unable to draw sprites bigger than 8x8.
Atari 7800, launched in 1984 but shelved for a couple of years, had a more unique display system which renders images as long scanlines instead of tiles. It was more versatile than tiling system, it eliminated the limitations of tile system, but its also more complex and arguably more power demanding, if you're making the same games as the ones commonly found in the nes like side scrolling platformers.
@@cube2fox The Commodore 64 had hardware scrolling and it came out a year before the Famicom.
@@cube2fox if we wanna go back really far. Then it would be bomber 1977 as the first documented case of scrolling in a machine.
Hey! I saw my game again :D
The original demo was MMC3 though, not NROM. But I wrote an NROM platformer for Second Dimension, Eyra the Crow Maiden, where I had to use a lot of fancy tricks to fit it into 40KB.
And as many have said, Micro Mages should be mentioned :)
Love the channel! As far as I know the Namco release of Ms. Pac-Man in North America (not to be confused with the earlier Tengen release) was the last Namco game to use a 40kb cart. What's crazy is that was in late 1993. I wager it was the last 40kb release during the regular commercial life of the FamiNes.
As you'll doubtless see, SMB smokes Namco's Ms. Pac-Man.
Makes sense. Ms. Pac-Man isn’t very big. It only has 4 level layouts, even
Hold up - I gotta go claim a Pac-Land world record.
This is a fantastic video my friend, well done! Well done indeed. This is precisely why I am a subscriber for life.
It was one of the games that I could honestly say, “yeah, I don’t have anything as good as that on my c64”. The other was RC Pro-Am
Not originally, but later Giana Sisters ...
@@Atlas_Redux and much later mayhem in monsterland
Everyone talking about "micromages" as if there hasn't been 30 years of programming tricks and hardware exploits discovered since then.
Also the fact that it's modern homebrew and not an official commercial release. Including it isn't a fair comparison.
doesnt even take advantage of sprite 0 hit...
I had no idea the games you showed were running on the raw NES! Thexder, Formation Z, Pac-Land, I have a lot more respect for them now
And the compression techniques lead to the Hidden Levels - which reminds me of how Sega used something similar later on for their Sonic & Knuckles lock-on technology.
Even though smb2 lost levels was a FDS game I’m pretty sure it would have run on an NES just fine and that had wind and more realistic bouncing physics and a sound effect when you slide and different physics for Luigi and levels that could include 2 themes and much more
Idk
There are bootlegs/reproductions of SMB2J on cartridge, but they all use additional hardware (either mapper chips or a custom chip mimicking the functions of the FDS). I'm guessing the big issue is that it's well over the 40kb limit for OG NES carts-the disk image online is around 66kb.
@@TheFancifulNorwegian that makes sense, there were 20 more levels than smb1
@@TheFancifulNorwegian just like SMB shows up as 41 KB, SMB2 is actually 64 and not 66
i wont explain why
Shigæru Maya-moto
Skip to 10:00 (!) for the actual subject of the video.
Whoa, thanks for the tip on Dragon City.
I think Challenger and Formation Z were only on Famicom not the NES if I’m not mistaken
Wanted to say Final Fantasy 2 but turns out it isn't a 0 mapper game at all.
color me intrigued!
Colour me green
10:27 The coin block is animated. But why? Shouldn't there be extra tiles for the changes in color?
A year late but the pattern table doesn't store full color info, it stores the shape and then it's colored based on the active palette assigned to it. So, to change the color of something you can just swap the palette out
@@ohno5559 I see. Makes sense, considering that they reused the same shapes throughout the game, (Blocks, brick, Ken and Ryu). I'm surprised I made such a question, I was Mesen influenced when I asked it. And a little confused because the video was showing the change instead of having the static shape.
Micro mages is a mapper zero game that really pushes the nes even harder in every field you could imagine. They even have a channel under the name morph cat games.
does it have 32 levels? sprite 0 hit? PRG data in CHR ROM? does it even have a custom music subroutine?
@@randomnerd4600 it has 26 levels (both normal and hard (hard changes some level layouts)). Unknown if theres a sprite zero hit, I unfortunately don't have much info in that department. No PRG in character rom as far as I'm aware. As for the music subroutine, I do not know.
@@Sinistar1983 for levels, smb also has a hard mode as far as im aware. for sprite 0 hit, just run mesen and see if there are any PPU writes outside vblank. for PRG data in CHR, check the pattern table viewer. and for music.. i mean its most likely famitracker
Things like those have made me a fan of high level optimization (also for my own projects). It reminds me of this gaming scene, where people try to put as much (modern) game into 64KB or 96KB, and they get ridiculous stuff together. HD textures, quite some gameplay, sound and music, it's nuts. You gotta admit though, they do this with modern computers, which can execute all kinds of code to decompress stuff and generate content from scratch with only a few lines of code, stuff the NES could never achieve. So still, SMB is a big achievement for more but only the storage limits it needed to deal with.
Is there a video of the same type for N64? Because it was basically the same story all over again, cramming pretty advanced 3D games into a max of 64MB space (many games being a lot smaller) and 4-8MB of RAM.
I always found it super impressive that this game incorporated a proper (simulated and simplified) physics system where Mario could gain velocity slowly by running over time, and where there was a real feeling of momentum and weight to Mario. Basically no other platformer did this until Sonic... and I would bet anything that the algorithms in Super Mario World and especially Yoshi's Island are more complex and nuanced than any 2D Sonic game, even then.
And that this wasn't just SMB, but something that Nintendo was clearly committed to with the series, always being way ahead of the curve on physics that give the player so much more complexity to work with, and same to the level designers. And this philosophy came into fullest bloom with Mario 64, which, just like SMB, stood head and shoulders above all other 3D platformers, almost permanently, because of how complex the physics were, the array of moves was.... the very first 3D playground they made, they got it so perfect that it will never be surpassed, no matter how great Galaxy or anything else ever is.
The only conclusion I can come to is that designing physics for platformers is as much art as science, and that it takes vastly more work than anyone might imagine to actually get right.
Micro Mages
With all the harping about pronunciations that you get, I'm sure you'll be delighted... moderately pleased... well, not entirely disappointed to hear that Formation Z's box art does spell out the pronunciation as "Zed" (more or less- it's in Japanese, and they use "zetto" for whatever reason).
Hydlide's first syllable is pronounced like "high".
And for what it's worth, I never had an issue with the whole "tiles" thing, even as a Canadian. (Though I do get a chuckle out of seeing TH-cam's auto captions, which usually interpret it as "tails" spoken with some strong accent or something. Not sure what its problem is!)
Does anyone know the game after city connection?.
Atlantis no Nazo
Brill vid, ta.
What game is that @6:06?
Vice: Project Doom
Here for the Micro Mages.
I'm surprised Hydlide was mapper zero
I need to mention that off-the-shelf 74-series logic chips (which integrate a few logic gates, or contain several 1-bit storage registers) are not the same thing as "Expansion Chips" (like Super FX on the SNES). The 74-series logic chips are very simple, there are so few components integrated into those chips that you can actually count the transistors. Using the simple chips (mostly mappers 2, 3, 7, 11, 34, 66) was enough to increase the maximum cartridge size. The custom mapper chips came later, like the MMC1, MMC2, MMC3, Sunsoft FMC-7, Konami VRC chips, etc...
Even the ASIC chips like MMC1-6, etc. aren't in the same league as the Super FX, a coprocessor. They're also equivalent to 74-series chips, just packed into a single chip for cost and space efficiency.
NROM is by definition 8, 16 or 32 K PRG and 8 K CHR with nothing more than that
Thexder has 4-way scrolling but not in the smooth way.
Yes we call it Formation “Z” here because it is just the letter ‘Z” and not the word “Zed”.
If you're British or Canadian its pronounced Zed not Zee
I've seen some comments already saying this, but, Micro Mages
Most master system or mega drive games were this way, without "cheat" chips inside cartridges
Surely they didn't rely on 40 KB though.
Correct, but In Fact the Memory Space dedicated to the game cartridge, because of the 68k CPU 24Bit Adress Bus in the Mega Drive (Genesis) was so large 32 Mbit that only one Game as i know needed a mapper (Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with 40Mbit)
@@codenameviper7905 24Bit address bus handles up to 16 megabytes (128 megabits) of memory. We never seen that high on official game releases on the Genesis, because the high cost to produce cartridge's with that high of memory during the Genesis lifetime. Only Neo Geo games at that time ran at least around that high and much higher, because Neo Geo Game makers were willing to sell each game for 200-300 dollars.
@@codenameviper7905 ok but
master system
Check out Micro Mages!
Later Games are for that inpressive that the squeeced all out of the CPU (with APU integrated) and the PPU. there was never a chip on the cards that increased any limits of the PPU, that means all graphic data no difference 1983 Mario Bros on a Famicom and a 1993 Kirby on the NES must in the end land in the PPU with 2KB VRAM with 25 max colors out of 52 color palette and limited sprites to draw on the screen.
However mappers with extra WRAM and VRAM and lots of space are quite required to pull of such games thats clear, but despite of the SNES the NES never had chips that provide any more CPU power like the SA1, or Graphics like the Super FX. In Fact the NES (unlike the Famicom) never had additonal sound so the sound capablities where also all there from the beginning including the DAC Channel for low quality samples which was later used even for music samplling for the background music like Super C, Return to Silus etc...
> there was never a chip on the cards that increased any limits of the PPU
That's not quite true, the MMC5 allowed for 8x8 background attributes instead of 16x16.
the channel is usually called DMC or PCM
@@randomnerd4600 DPCM
"mee-a-moto", not mayamoto 😂
It’s-a me, Meeyamotoe!
Challenger doesn't play very well and isn't a very good game, but it has parallax and smooth 4 direction scrolling, which is something not even later Nintendo-developed games like Mario 2, Metroid and Zelda pulled off, so that's gotta count for something...
Would have been better if u can scroll the camera to the left instead of mostly to the right, but becuz of limited coding, nvm
What about Bioforge Ape or whatever the name is? That pushes the limits less than Super Mario Bros?
EDIT: I see, it's only for 40k cartridges, no extra chips, etc.
There was a previous video covering NES games with enhancement chips
My nes gets laggy when I play this game lol
You should do a series of "games that push the limits of the IBM PC", one for the original PC hardware, one for 286-class hardware, one for 386-class hardware and one for 486-class hardware.
Talk about the limits that were pushed by the likes of the legendary John Carmack.
I would enjoy seeing one for the Macintosh too
Micro Mages done in 40k
MiCrO mAgEs
Side-scrolling. Pushing to the limit.
of the base hardware without any cartridge expansion chips, yes.
Wait, Hydlide uses a 40Kb Mapper0 cartridge?
Well, I guess my respect for it's frankly awful NES/Famicom port just increased.
Mad props to you for using footage of snes doom the unequivocally worst doom port that is actually playable in my opinion
32x destroys it. Gba wipes the floor with snes port
the snes version has most of the full games levels better soundtrack than th queefs a wet farts 32x rendition i can actuall endure the snes version longer than 32x
Micro Mages doesnt count folks because we know way more about how the NES works now than how we did then.
That shouldn't disqualify it.
well, if you look at it like this.. it does count - just that it doesnt go beyond SMB.
Doesn’t matter. It does count and it’s still not more amazing than SMB. It’s a great game though
@@MaxOakland from a technical standpoint, i dont remember sprite 0 hits in this game. from a gameplay standpoint, its good. from a graphical standpoint, fuck RF
I think the Nes homebrew game micro mages is way more impressive than super mario bros
The last thing he said was the most impressive "original" nes game, which that one isn't. Homebrews have the obvious advantage from decades of learning and advancement in techniques.
Try naming an original release instead of the obvious choice.
Huh I never noticed I guess that in the context of "Original" NES games that super mario bros is absolutely the most impressive game
impressive ≠ better
i know 1 game that easily overcome Super Mario Bros for nes that the use the same limitation the name off the game is Micro Mages and made by the Morphcat Games
did you play SMB?
@@randomnerd4600 no but I know what exactly is the super Mario bros is
To by honest I don't like the super Mario bros unlike mean people that I pressed this for my super Mario bros is bad game I don't have nostalgia for this game and the are multiple platformer game that is way better for supper Mario bros like for example
1. Bubble Bobble
2. Metal slug
3. Jazz jackrabbit 1 and Jazz jackrabbit
4. Sonic
And the game I mention is old games if go to the newer titles the are a lot 2D games that is way better I understand that super Mario bros is was I good game wean release but now the are multiple game that is just better and super Mario bros is not even a good game in my opinion
@@watercat1248 then your opinion is just biased
@@randomnerd4600 it's but I'm able to like and dislike eny game I want to and from Saman that dasn't not have nostalgia for the super Mario bros
Like myself the look the game the the are and not for the childhood memories
@@watercat1248 i dont play them for nostalgia either, i play them because modern trash is the peak of garbage.
i believe Micro Mages is mapper 0 ;) a great game indeed
Yes but here we're taking about what was accomplished back then, not now. Can you name an original system release with same attributes?
6:07, 8:13 game name pls
Vice Project Doom and Thexder, respectively.
@@stickershock66 thanks
Micro Mages?
Shigeru MAYA-MOTO? Please, a little more care with Japanese names! It's not like we've NEVER heard of Shigeru Miyamoto before!
I thought games like SMB3 or Metroid or any of the more graphic NES games would push the NES to its limits
Those games had special chips.
@@foxymetroid I see
smb1 - sprite 0 hit
smb3 - IRQ (not as epic)
@@randomnerd4600 I see
ok so
micro mages isnt more impressive. and no matter how much you scream at this comment, it wont change reality
Early asf
It’s actually named the _FAMILY COMPUTER_ not some bastardized name like famicom
Actually, Famicom was the originally intended name, but Nintendo couldn't use it because Sharp owned the rights to the name for their Family Convection Oven at the time ("com" is pronounced "con" in Japanese).
Sharp later partnered with Nintendo for computer chips and such, but Nintendo kept using the Family Computer name for the normal models for consistency, until it was finally dropped for the Super Famicom only (the Famicom AV kept using the Family Computer name, again for "consistency" within Nintendo's 8-bit Famicom line).
Sharp on the other hand did make a couple of Famicom models of their own with the Famicom name - The Famicom Twin and the Famicom Titler.
Video aboug one of the greatest and most remarkable games of all time sponsored by one of the crappiest and most unremarkable craps of all time. And of course it has chest animations like any crappy game with lots of flashes and other bullshit targeted at the same kind of people who were thrilled they won iPad each time they entered world wide web :)
It's a shame, becauae the video itself is pretty interesting but contracts fuck everything up. Dragon City isn't even original lol, it took it's roots from games like Dragonvale.
micro mages isn't fun
No. No it doesn't. What a strange lie to make up.
You didn't even watch the video
Hold that thought, this video is sponsored by dragon city!
@@Hmuk09 I was an nes developer for 8 years, I don't have to.
@@witness1013 to be fair, under the prerequisites he specified it's not as farfetched as it sounds
@@witness1013 you do need to watch if you want to be taken seriously.
Сan you talk like a normal person? Have you even heard yourself?
What's up with all this choppy talking, overemphasizing words and jumping inflections?
most useless comment ever.
@@xeostube Why, he talks like a goblin in a cheap cartoon trying to sound exciting. Maybe his subs will go up if he fixes the issue.
Speech impediments exist, you might need to take that into concideration. He also has a UK accent, and the UK has many different dialects. Hope this helps.
what game is this? 6:07 ?
Vice Project Doom
@@ngc_3877 thanks!