I wanted to say, that if Hans would keep according to my build videos, he would for sure have a good bass. - The first thing many did wrong, was to make the hole for the driver not angled towards the inner side, so the driver has no space for breath. - The second thing many did wrong, is to use the wrong dampening material, it is only a 1cm layer of felt with the density of 1500 g/qm. If Your felt is between 1000 and 1800 g/qm it will still work out. But You should glue it onto the inside of the panel. (Like in my videos) - I used a 2,5mm thick self gluing insulation foam stripe to proof the back plate, this stripe killed 35-45% of my bass performance. Super thin package foam sheet is perfekt, its air tight, but it does not interrupt the cabinet homogenity. - many built the cabinet of different material with less thick walls, had also issues, not everyone has "János-level " of Geniusity, ding it different, can lead to no Bass, if You do it wron... 😉 - Another issue is the amplification. The Petit will when using some average Denon/Sony whatsoever Amp (or class D) show just how bad the Amp is... I must say yet without dampening inside I had troubles with my midrange performance. 🧐 I hope this was some help! Cheers
@@hoobsgroove you should have a chamfer on the inside of the driver hole of 45 degrees. In case you use 25mm of MDF the chassis itself won`t be "stuck within" the MDF
Hi Janosch and Jügen,, Thanks for your detailed help. I build the Petit just before Jürgens videos, but build it the same way. Rearranged speaker placement and removed dampening and got a different sound and more midbass, but now I get impacts from the resonating MDF cabinet. I will play arround with the amount of dampening material to find the right balance
Hello Hans, indeed, that is why MDF is a tricky material. Not enough dampening, and you get interfering cabinet resonances, too much dampening and then the bass and liveliness gets compromised. That's why I'm using natural wood and plywood, because their resonances are much less harmful than MDF. However, as you already have MDF, you need the dampening. Yet, I got an idea, how you could curb those resonances while keeping minimal dampening. Will make a video about what to do. Briefly: glue a piece of quality wood to the MDF panels to force them to transfer resonances more similar to a wood panel. This might help to distribute the resonant energy more evenly on the panels, and the bad resonance might go down. This is just an idea, not sure how effective it will be but worth a try! I will think of the size of the pieces and their most optimal position.
He does what I suggest before shouldn't have a problem with mid-range bass and lower bass put a 1"ply box around the drive. Try 2" open cell foam instead of fibre just on the back, try it from the top to half way down and see how that sounds first
The little Fostex drivers are something special. But that does not mean they are easy to build good speakers with. I think you almost have to understand the Japanese way of thinking to be successful with them.
Janos WTF is that tonearm????A;lsp why sp much on the Le Petite?Thought the Cube Voight Pipes would be end game- love to hear more on non- damped vs damped speaker cabinets especially after seeing reviews of Pearl Sibelious - which in fact you do as I am writing this LOL
Damping in itself and to much damping are the cure for problems in regular speakers .......when the cure is often experienced as in medecine ..........being worse or creating new and other problems ... In every case , damping DAMPS the sound ( willing to eliminate what hurts the music by default of the system and speakers )..............but it SUCKS the life OUt of the music ........... And as a cherry on the cake suppresses all those microdynamics and related small harmonics that bring the sound, a voice, the ambience of the stage or room............all those fine vibrations that nature let us expeirence as being things and creatures , weather and the air aere ALIVE !!!....................DEAD is the result...........no pain of the suffering creature, pure sound of the dead .................. A little damping CAN help sometimes but it has to be dosed with care and find a synergy with what disturbs and what heals the desease.......all is in the use of ingredients in harmony and coherence just like cooking is ............to much and it fails and to less and it is fade and tasteless ! To less or to much bass can happen because of the synergy between AMPLIFIER and Speakers, cables, source , the room and personal taste or the recordingt itself..........I prefer good nuanced and lively bass than ...............to much or to less..........for me quatity and expression primes over quantity ......and kicking the butt......... I get even relatively good quality bass out some of my little 13 cm monitors with CLOSED cabinet of only 7 litres............pulling up a little bass on moderate sound pressure levels......
So true! Damping is dampig - the smearing of sound. Sadly, what people are not aware of, it smears not only the unwanted colorations, but EVERYTHING, as the material slows down the propagation speed of sound, and creates the equivalent of a traffic jam inside the cabinet. So there will be no speeding cars - aka colorations - because the entire highway is at a snail-crawl speed. The result: no colored resonance, and no life. I so much agree with you, good bass is the result of all that you wrote, experiencing much of it with the La Grande fed by the smallest Darling amplifier with only 0.7W output, and the "inadequate" Hammond 125ESE output transformer.
This project is for those who tried 3 ways, and other avenues and it did not work out for them. If your 3 way worked out for you, and you could also afford it then you are all set, and what's left to you is to hunt for music. This project is useless to you. Thank you for watching.
I wanted to say, that if Hans would keep according to my build videos, he would for sure have a good bass.
- The first thing many did wrong, was to make the hole for the driver not angled towards the inner side, so the driver has no space for breath.
- The second thing many did wrong, is to use the wrong dampening material, it is only a 1cm layer of felt with the density of 1500 g/qm.
If Your felt is between 1000 and 1800 g/qm it will still work out. But You should glue it onto the inside of the panel. (Like in my videos)
- I used a 2,5mm thick self gluing insulation foam stripe to proof the back plate, this stripe killed 35-45% of my bass performance. Super thin package foam sheet is perfekt, its air tight, but it does not interrupt the cabinet homogenity.
- many built the cabinet of different material with less thick walls, had also issues, not everyone has "János-level " of Geniusity, ding it different, can lead to no Bass, if You do it wron... 😉
- Another issue is the amplification. The Petit will when using some average Denon/Sony whatsoever Amp (or class D) show just how bad the Amp is...
I must say yet without dampening inside I had troubles with my midrange performance. 🧐
I hope this was some help! Cheers
Thank you Jürgen for the super detailed advice! :)
I don't know what you mean there "angle towards the inner side" ?surely the driver's mount is flash on the baffle
@@hoobsgroove I think he means mount from the outside, not behind the baffle.
@@hoobsgroove There You go 😉
th-cam.com/video/ti6VmMCM308/w-d-xo.html
sorry for my bad English
@@hoobsgroove you should have a chamfer on the inside of the driver hole of 45 degrees. In case you use 25mm of MDF the chassis itself won`t be "stuck within" the MDF
Hi Janosch and Jügen,, Thanks for your detailed help. I build the Petit just before Jürgens videos, but build it the same way.
Rearranged speaker placement and removed dampening and got a different sound and more midbass, but now I get impacts from the resonating MDF cabinet. I will play arround with the amount of dampening material to find the right balance
Hello Hans, indeed, that is why MDF is a tricky material. Not enough dampening, and you get interfering cabinet resonances, too much dampening and then the bass and liveliness gets compromised. That's why I'm using natural wood and plywood, because their resonances are much less harmful than MDF. However, as you already have MDF, you need the dampening. Yet, I got an idea, how you could curb those resonances while keeping minimal dampening.
Will make a video about what to do. Briefly: glue a piece of quality wood to the MDF panels to force them to transfer resonances more similar to a wood panel. This might help to distribute the resonant energy more evenly on the panels, and the bad resonance might go down. This is just an idea, not sure how effective it will be but worth a try! I will think of the size of the pieces and their most optimal position.
@@realworldaudio Plywood iI have on hands, is that Quality wood? Waiting for your ideas
He does what I suggest before shouldn't have a problem with mid-range bass and lower bass put a 1"ply box around the drive. Try 2" open cell foam instead of fibre just on the back, try it from the top to half way down and see how that sounds first
The little Fostex drivers are something special. But that does not mean they are easy to build good speakers with. I think you almost have to understand the Japanese way of thinking to be successful with them.
Oh yeah also have you heard the TQWP designs on Cube site?
Janos WTF is that tonearm????A;lsp why sp much on the Le Petite?Thought the Cube Voight Pipes would be end game- love to hear more on non- damped vs damped speaker cabinets especially after seeing reviews of Pearl Sibelious - which in fact you do as I am writing this LOL
Damping in itself and to much damping are the cure for problems in regular speakers .......when the cure is often experienced as in medecine ..........being worse or creating new and other problems ...
In every case , damping DAMPS the sound ( willing to eliminate what hurts the music by default of the system and speakers )..............but it SUCKS the life OUt of the music ...........
And as a cherry on the cake suppresses all those microdynamics and related small harmonics that bring the sound, a voice, the ambience of the stage or room............all those fine vibrations that nature let us expeirence as being things and creatures , weather and the air aere ALIVE !!!....................DEAD is the result...........no pain of the suffering creature, pure sound of the dead ..................
A little damping CAN help sometimes but it has to be dosed with care and find a synergy with what disturbs and what heals the desease.......all is in the use of ingredients in harmony and coherence just like cooking is ............to much and it fails and to less and it is fade and tasteless !
To less or to much bass can happen because of the synergy between AMPLIFIER and Speakers, cables, source , the room and personal taste or the recordingt itself..........I prefer good nuanced and lively bass than ...............to much or to less..........for me quatity and expression primes over quantity ......and kicking the butt.........
I get even relatively good quality bass out some of my little 13 cm monitors with CLOSED cabinet of only 7 litres............pulling up a little bass on moderate sound pressure levels......
So true! Damping is dampig - the smearing of sound. Sadly, what people are not aware of, it smears not only the unwanted colorations, but EVERYTHING, as the material slows down the propagation speed of sound, and creates the equivalent of a traffic jam inside the cabinet. So there will be no speeding cars - aka colorations - because the entire highway is at a snail-crawl speed. The result: no colored resonance, and no life.
I so much agree with you, good bass is the result of all that you wrote, experiencing much of it with the La Grande fed by the smallest Darling amplifier with only 0.7W output, and the "inadequate" Hammond 125ESE output transformer.
Le Petite? never seen such a mistake^^
Thank you for your playful comment. Indeed, it appears like a joke at best to those who never experienced it.
Try a real quality 3 way speakers and you will be happy. Enough with these silly single driver speakers.
This project is for those who tried 3 ways, and other avenues and it did not work out for them. If your 3 way worked out for you, and you could also afford it then you are all set, and what's left to you is to hunt for music. This project is useless to you. Thank you for watching.