You mean one of the most pretentious piles of dog shit. "Oooh!~It's DIFFERENT! So it must be good!" Let me guess..you are one of those incels who says "I liked (insert band name here) BEFORE they got famous! Now they are just sell outs!"
To Juan in the previous post, Ambiguity per se has not been a friend to the survival of species. Ambiguity is only interesting at the level of paradox and humor (art), which derives pleasure from a higher level of abstract (indeed leisure} thought. Generally speaking, the embracing of ambiguity at the expense of a dominant view, in terms of survival of the species, has been programed out over the evolution of generations. Because vision is the dominant sense through which we perceive the world, it is the most difficult sense to overcome in the appreciation of abstract art. In a way, one has to relearn how to see in order to fully appreciate an artist like Snow. The ground is indeed common, yet the terrain unfamiliar to our learned language of visual perception. We have to relax into a state of vulnerability and set aside expectations that have been conditioned all of our lives. What is a picture? What is cinema? Both are potentially much more interesting than our day-to-day and the culture perpetuates. It takes time to open to new ways of seeing, just as it takes time and inclination to appreciate poetry from prose. The finest practitioners, like Snow, are able to embrace even the pedagogical responsibilities necessitated in understanding and appreciating their work. It's like learning a new language. Sound is less burdened than sight. Ambiguity in music, though difficult, is potentially less threatening to the species, so it's easier to get with. Though I certainly find Snow a challenge, I find in the work the best refutation to the notion that one can't be abstract with the same level of freedom that music enjoys.
but how does one relearn the visual language and lose the bias? How do you strip yourself of all the expectations that are so ingrained in you through nature and nurture and culture?
With AI there's also artificial "perception"--- what the machines see and hear .That's the perceptual playground that artists like Michael Snow is presenting us aided by cameras, tape recorders, etc. Technology becomes another tool in its purity without any baggage or human pre-conceptions.It is what it is or is YOU plus IT.
Ridiculous films before TH-cam: groundbreaking, inspirational, incredible, profound, wins awards at film festivals. Ridiculous films after TH-cam: waste of time, horrible, stupid, dumb, wins awards at film festivals.
it can't be explained. a lot of people are probably doing themselves a major disservice looking at his works as though they were "movies" instead of abstract art works. the aim of structural cinema is to use form to convey an idea instead of the substance, around which the form is merely a frame in a conventional film. some people get headaches from the audio of wavelength, while others find themselves hypnotized. personally, i have only seen wavelength and la region centrale (both on 16mm), and both times my mind entered an extremely meditative state that i thoroughly appreciated.
@@juliussw9153 Exactly, they are abstract art and not a film with narrative. Or maybe some of them have a kind-of-a-narrative, but an unconventional one. It's entirely your state of mind and personality which determines if you are interested in this kind of art or not. Maybe you like these artworks if you are in a certain mood. They are uncompromising and hard to experience. On the other hand, I find a lot of this kind of films self-indulgent and not interesting at all. I guess my taste is still very much influenced by mainstream experiences. But I need some beautiful aesthetic appeal or at least a sketch of a narrative to be interested in an experimental film. For example the film "The Black Tower" from John Smith from 1987 I like a lot. It is very experimental, slow and somewhat hard to watch, but it has a narrative coherence and a literary value which appeals to me a lot. www.imdb.com/title/tt0125016/
As much as I’m fascinated with visuals, cinema and art, I find there is a problem: ambiguity. In music, there is ambiguity too, but there is a lot more common ground between artist and the audience: you at least understand the basic tensions between the notes. With visuals, it seems to me you can't be abstract with that level of freedom, you may have a brilliant idea, but it only make sense once you explain it verbally. If I watched Michael Snow’s films before hearing their logic from him I would never arrive at that logic. While if I hear Mozart or a Clapton solo, it's complete, alive and direct, I just feel it and never wonder about “getting it”.
The examples you use don't equate. Mozart and Coltrane made incredibly emotive and empathetic music that the listener can immediately connect with, but there are also musical artists that do the same thing Michael Snow does in making difficult, distant artpieces - for example, Onkyokei. In both mediums you can convey emotion on a very immediate level or an abstract one.
Juan art should never be something (no matter the medium) that you feel like you “need to “get”. That’s the problem with art and people who view/ listen/ hear/ smell or taste art these days. Everybody feels as if they have to “get it”. Just take it, and move on. If it’s meant for you then good, if not that’s also cool.
I mean even your example about music is based on the concept of western classical music. When you move away from diatonic scales or even equal temperament tuning, etc., you are likely to reach the same place as how you feel about Snow's work.
He said his piece of art is about changing in time, he has his own interpretation of the “change” in his movie, though it’s quite boring to watch, but I think he did convey me the innovative ideas which is beautiful, it’s a very ambiguous art form.
@@curtissiebold4460 The electronic droning soundtrack, though, becomes excruciating to my ears. This has made it one of of the more difficult films for me to endure aurally.
Then you must be a very boring person. You're the one who MAKES it boring. The film doesn't care what you think and it is still here. If you only watch it on TH-cam, that is all your own fault.
I've not yet seen 'Back and Forth' (other than in such online clips as here), but 'Wavelength' is full of conceptual and formal interest, and is of considerable historical significance in the development of avant-garde cinema. The droning electronic soundtrack, though, which increases in intensity as the zoom advances across the space, becomes excruciating before the film's conclusion, making this one of the more uncomfortable films to experience aurally.
One of the greatest geniuses of experimental film. I hope I'll be as good as him one day.
You mean one of the most pretentious piles of dog shit. "Oooh!~It's DIFFERENT! So it must be good!"
Let me guess..you are one of those incels who says "I liked (insert band name here) BEFORE they got famous! Now they are just sell outs!"
This is a wonderful video of Michael Snow, providing insight into his thinking and art.
Waiting on the sequel "up and down"
To Juan in the previous post,
Ambiguity per se has not been a friend to the survival of species. Ambiguity is only interesting at the level of paradox and humor (art), which derives pleasure from a higher level of abstract (indeed leisure} thought. Generally speaking, the embracing of ambiguity at the expense of a dominant view, in terms of survival of the species, has been programed out over the evolution of generations. Because vision is the dominant sense through which we perceive the world, it is the most difficult sense to overcome in the appreciation of abstract art. In a way, one has to relearn how to see in order to fully appreciate an artist like Snow. The ground is indeed common, yet the terrain unfamiliar to our learned language of visual perception. We have to relax into a state of vulnerability and set aside expectations that have been conditioned all of our lives. What is a picture? What is cinema? Both are potentially much more interesting than our day-to-day and the culture perpetuates. It takes time to open to new ways of seeing, just as it takes time and inclination to appreciate poetry from prose. The finest practitioners, like Snow, are able to embrace even the pedagogical responsibilities necessitated in understanding and appreciating their work. It's like learning a new language. Sound is less burdened than sight. Ambiguity in music, though difficult, is potentially less threatening to the species, so it's easier to get with. Though I certainly find Snow a challenge, I find in the work the best refutation to the notion that one can't be abstract with the same level of freedom that music enjoys.
but how does one relearn the visual language and lose the bias? How do you strip yourself of all the expectations that are so ingrained in you through nature and nurture and culture?
@@Finn959 Sometimes you won't. If you don't understand the ideas and just see the cinema as boring, it just isn't your type of film. That's okay.
RIP
With AI there's also artificial "perception"--- what the machines see and hear .That's the perceptual playground that artists like Michael Snow is presenting us aided by cameras, tape recorders, etc. Technology becomes another tool in its purity without any baggage or human pre-conceptions.It is what it is or is YOU plus IT.
yep
Ridiculous films before TH-cam: groundbreaking, inspirational, incredible, profound, wins awards at film festivals.
Ridiculous films after TH-cam: waste of time, horrible, stupid, dumb, wins awards at film festivals.
Idiot comment wtf are you think?
@@ihatefanserviceanime364 Negative replies on TH-cam: What's grammar?
One of Tavistock's forgotten
are you talking about the institute?
Can someone who likes his Films please explain the appeal?
For example, Wavelength 1967
it can't be explained. a lot of people are probably doing themselves a major disservice looking at his works as though they were "movies" instead of abstract art works. the aim of structural cinema is to use form to convey an idea instead of the substance, around which the form is merely a frame in a conventional film. some people get headaches from the audio of wavelength, while others find themselves hypnotized. personally, i have only seen wavelength and la region centrale (both on 16mm), and both times my mind entered an extremely meditative state that i thoroughly appreciated.
@@juliussw9153 Exactly, they are abstract art and not a film with narrative. Or maybe some of them have a kind-of-a-narrative, but an unconventional one. It's entirely your state of mind and personality which determines if you are interested in this kind of art or not. Maybe you like these artworks if you are in a certain mood. They are uncompromising and hard to experience. On the other hand, I find a lot of this kind of films self-indulgent and not interesting at all. I guess my taste is still very much influenced by mainstream experiences. But I need some beautiful aesthetic appeal or at least a sketch of a narrative to be interested in an experimental film. For example the film "The Black Tower" from John Smith from 1987 I like a lot. It is very experimental, slow and somewhat hard to watch, but it has a narrative coherence and a literary value which appeals to me a lot. www.imdb.com/title/tt0125016/
As much as I’m fascinated with visuals, cinema and art, I find there is a problem: ambiguity. In music, there is ambiguity too, but there is a lot more common ground between artist and the audience: you at least understand the basic tensions between the notes. With visuals, it seems to me you can't be abstract with that level of freedom, you may have a brilliant idea, but it only make sense once you explain it verbally. If I watched Michael Snow’s films before hearing their logic from him I would never arrive at that logic. While if I hear Mozart or a Clapton solo, it's complete, alive and direct, I just feel it and never wonder about “getting it”.
interesting. guess ill have to watch the film then.
The examples you use don't equate. Mozart and Coltrane made incredibly emotive and empathetic music that the listener can immediately connect with, but there are also musical artists that do the same thing Michael Snow does in making difficult, distant artpieces - for example, Onkyokei. In both mediums you can convey emotion on a very immediate level or an abstract one.
Juan art should never be something (no matter the medium) that you feel like you “need to “get”. That’s the problem with art and people who view/ listen/ hear/ smell or taste art these days. Everybody feels as if they have to “get it”. Just take it, and move on. If it’s meant for you then good, if not that’s also cool.
I mean even your example about music is based on the concept of western classical music. When you move away from diatonic scales or even equal temperament tuning, etc., you are likely to reach the same place as how you feel about Snow's work.
He said his piece of art is about changing in time, he has his own interpretation of the “change” in his movie, though it’s quite boring to watch, but I think he did convey me the innovative ideas which is beautiful, it’s a very ambiguous art form.
"Visual pleasures" Really? Today they call it, causes of Epileptic fits.
Your idiot
Dumb comments below. Gee, if you're an empty person these movies are boring. Empty comments ahead.
He has the honour of the worst film ever made. A genius of the worst.
I think that back-and-forth film might be the worst I think I would get me sick
@@curtissiebold4460 wavelength is pretty bad 👎
@@ultimatesunrise But It won’t get me a sick!
@@curtissiebold4460
The electronic droning soundtrack, though, becomes excruciating to my ears. This has made it one of of the more difficult films for me to endure aurally.
@@ultimatesunrise Far from bad stupid
BLOODY BORING !
Idiot
You just don't understand
Then you must be a very boring person. You're the one who MAKES it boring. The film doesn't care what you think and it is still here. If you only watch it on TH-cam, that is all your own fault.
Fraud
Wavelength and Back and Forth look horrible.
I've not yet seen 'Back and Forth' (other than in such online clips as here), but 'Wavelength' is full of conceptual and formal interest, and is of considerable historical significance in the development of avant-garde cinema. The droning electronic soundtrack, though, which increases in intensity as the zoom advances across the space, becomes excruciating before the film's conclusion, making this one of the more uncomfortable films to experience aurally.
Because you idiot