The lady is saying she'd like equality of outcome AND equality of opportunity, and JBP is saying you can't have both; if you have equality of opportunity, which is what western countries are mostly, men and women are naturally going to choose different jobs. No matter how hard you try to push the "nice" science jobs onto young women, most (not all) would still rather do something else.
The data proves this, as Jordan keeps noting. Sweden is the most feminist nation on Earth, along with a few others, and women and men are MORE different. If you want men and women to be the same, you need Vietnam and Communist hellholes: but even there, they are fundamentally different, as it's the woman's role to give birth and be a mother, the very thing that most Western feminists are trying to avoid, or claiming to. About 90% of firemen are men (in fact, I think it's often 98% but it depends); 90% of bricklayers and other outside/difficult jobs are men; 90% of active video gamers are men; 90% of tech people are men. This is true in most nations, more so, the Western nations with the most enforced equality of opportunity, and a fair amount of enforced outcome. About 80% of nurses are women; the rest are gay men, almost entirely (and my own experiences indicate as much). 80% of teachers of young children are women; 100% of mothers are women. Likewise, 90% of people that like puzzles are men; 90% of sports people are men; and 90% of people in wars are men. Almost 100% of those in blacksmith jobs are men. About 90% of those in care jobs are women. 80% of people in psychology are women. About 80% of novelists and readers of fiction are women, with a major bias towards first-person POV and romance.
Definitely not a collab I was expecting! Love it, and always love JP discussions... His interviews often get a lot of attention but the real gold is in all of the lectures he's posted on his channel. It'd be really fun to see someone react to some of his series, particularly where he's breaking down the psychology of Disney movies - he does The Lion King and Pinocchio in depth it's amazing what you can learn from a Disney movie If you're looking for it. The point he's making regarding Scandinavia is that they have done the most regarding making their society as gender neutral as possible - if you allow men and women to choose freely, they still tend to chose what you would consider "typical" or stereotypical for their gender, surprisingly even more so when extra effort made to avoid the stereotypical gender roles. It's not that Scandinavia is getting "worse" or going backwards, it's that all of the efforts made to make things more equal are not resulting in the equal representation throughout all the sectors that they were hoping for/expecting. Jordan's point is that equality of opportunity is just fine, but based on what we're seeing it's not inherently going to result in equal representation across the Spectrum and in a lot of ways enhances the differences in genders. Equality of outcome it's a very separate but important distinction from equality of opportunity, because equalizing the outcome- making sure there's roughly 50/50 representation across the board- would almost definitely require forcing people into sectors they would not otherwise choose for themselves if given the opportunity; as is being born out in Scandinavia.
Jorden P wasn't saying that "it was going in the wrong direction". He was saying that the more that men and women have equal opportunity, they make different choices which results in unequal outcome. Unequal outcome is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, most women don't want to be brick layers even if that have equal opportunity to enter the field of brick laying.
Here for this! Britt I love that you’re branching out and checking out new content! JBP reactions are always fun to me because it’s intellectual and creates more conversation on important things :)
@ absolutely! I’ve been watching you pretty much since you started and I’m excited to see how you choose to grow your channel! Your content may change, but a lot of us here come for YOU, and what you bring to this community you created! God bless you Britt! 🙏
Why is it looked at by women for it to be honorable to work cleaning other people’s houses, but sexist to clean your own home? Why is it equality for a woman to work outside the home as a daycare worker or a teacher, taking care of other people’s kids, but sexist to stay home and raise your own kids?
Men and women are different; you don't need a degree to spot that. We're also complimentary, which is why we're such a great team. You can't shoehorn men and women into the same role because we were designed for different purposes - both of them equal in value!
Equal is not the same, there is a reason why we used to say that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, gender roles was made to fit that and the time we where living in, not to put on over the other, we used to put women on a pedestal and protect them, some how feminism did convince the majority of us, that working 9-5 and paying tax was better for women.
We’re equal but we’re not the same. 2+2 equals 4. 1+3 also equals 4. Women aren’t meant to do everything men can do, we’re meant to do what men can’t do. Our strengths are complimentary. That’s why the traditional family structure is the best environment to create functional humans.
really? show me sociopath or serial killer who was not raised in a "traditional family "structure got news for you there are very few. Then look at kids raised in non traditional, especially families which people usually demonize & show me the same stats and you'll find no similar outcomes. It has nothing to do with traditional structure it has to do with raising a child with love and clear boundaries.
In the US the fight for gender equality has driven men into a loneliness epidemic. This "fight"against toxic masculinity and the "patriarchy"has lead to worsening outcomes. Affirmative action has ultimately skewed the system towards females. As JP states the more we try to move towards equality the farther we actually come from it.
"Mr Gotti is it true you're the boss of the gambino crime family? "no, I am a member of the Gotti family and last time I checked MY WIFE IS THE BOSS!" - John Gotti 😂 The Barbarian and Haku are two very famous Tongan wrestlers who are known for being two of THE TOUGHEST men in the history of the pro wrestling business. The ONLY two people those men are afraid of on this planet is their wives!" That tells you all you need to know about the patriarchy LOL
Great Reaction...... Nice seeing the 2 of you collaborating..... Maybe an Unpopular Opinion..... I think a "50-50" relationship is where each pardner is happy with the amount of effort (Money/Chores) that each pardner is putting into the relationship...... That might be one pardner provides 100% of the money, and the other does 100% of the chores..... Or it could be each contributes 50% of money and does 50% of the Chores..... Ultimately it needs to be decided by the individuals in THAT relationship..........
First off, you can provide an environment of equal opportunities but that in itself propagates there will never be equal outcomes (equity). People are interested in what interest them and in such run to the opportunities of interest. Interest does not necessarily reflect talent... although talent does influence interest, See, everyone strives to an interest based upon their talents and physical abilities along with the shear mental aptitude and desire to pursue it - you love to do things you're extremely good at. So it's really near impossible for two people on the planet to be so much alike that they're equal in every aspect.
If women have a choice, and even when women don’t have a choice, they won’t be garbage Men, plumbers, roofers, mechanics, surgeons, Dentists, truck drivers etc: and the list goes on. Women do not want work outside. They don’t want to work overtime. And they sure don’t want to sweat for a living. Yes every field has women, but at a very low percentage. All Jordan is saying is women choose fields that attract what women’s interests are. And men do the same.
Krizz, Jordan doesn't say it's not "getting better" or that it is going in the "wrong direction". He's saying the outcome is what it is, and it's not what the lefties WANT/expect it to be. The more egalitarian (allowing women more freedom to choose) country's statistics show that the women are choosing even MORE along "traditional" role lines. Ergo, the choices that women make are more driven by their natural disposition, as opposed to choices that society is "forcing" upon them. This is anathema to the left, so, as the woman on the panel shows, it cannot be accepted by them.
Oh, and Britt you are a strong, smart woman and one of the sweetest, most beautiful people on the internet. BTW Krizz is a very handsome, smart dude. ✌🏼❤️🎶
Hey y’all! Another important reaction! IMHO the US would do well to adopt what is working in other countries as they have adopted our best practices. ✌🏼❤️🎶 This was a terrific debate! Krizz I saw a female psychologist say that women and men’s brains are wired differently. Neither is superior, just different. ✌🏼❤️🎶
The thing about Dr. Peterson is that he's also very humble. I've watched a discourse between him and someone else who asked him a question and pointed out a flaw in Peterson's thinking. Jordan, after a bit of time to think, simply said: "I'll have to give that more thought, I might be wrong about this..."
Oh and the whole pay gap thing it’s been proven false because it’s not a sexual disparity it’s that men can and do work more hours and compete harder than women who are more agreeable and avoid conflict. And how are you going to force equality of outcome when someone isn’t striving as hard as another person,you get for productivity.
Why are they keep wanting to force people to change of who they are to appease their little equality thing. The opportunities there for them they're just not choosing to go that route not because of societal pressure which you're trying to put on them but just in their human nature of what they gravitate towards.
He’s saying the more bureaucratic forces try to encourage women to go into fields traditionally filled by men and vice versa the more people short themselves willingly into traditional roles in workplace and education. In other words most men don’t wish to become beauticians and women don’t generally rush to become construction workers. Thomas Sowell talks on much of this stuff eloquently
Jordan Peterson is smart enough that he doesn't seem normal. But he's almost always got the facts on his side. He's a literal psychologist, and so he often comes from a highly technical perspective. Defining something like "equal" is always the trick. The woman wants to create "equal outcomes" by granting more parental leave. But that means some men are doing MORE work to support the leave of those taking advantage of it. Is that an "equal outcome"?
its called cherry picking or selecting facts to suit your narrative. All his "facts" and data are very selective. and he takes nothing about societal pressure into account.
Dr Peterson is saying that the more freedom we get the greater the differences between men and women becomes, because men and women tend to choose different things majors, different jobs, different choices in life. Therefore the outcome is not the same I.e. there is no equality of outcome unless a government forces you by taking away your freedom
I guess some would call me old school… I have been married to the same man since 1990.. we were 19 when we said I do! Now, I worked until we had our first child and I MADE THE DECISION to stay at home with them! I feel my job as a mom was very important.. and now that they are grown, I’m thankful I did… they are all successful and good kids! Three boys and a girl! Men and women are not equals she needs to read the BIBLE haha love you both and Kris you keep me busy with all the content you’re dropping! ❤️Tennessee
Jordan is talking about equality, period, she is talking about equality of outcome which is actually equity and not equality. There is no way to achieve equity, no two people are going to achieve the same levels in the end and to force people to step aside or allow unqualified people to achieve the same level is just wrong.
Home economics is a full time career that in recent times everyone is calling out sick. And the children, personal finances, and health of the family is sacrificed.
11:21 I haven’t finished the video yet so you might get to this at some point. What Jordan is saying is that, because there are biological differences between men and women that have an impact in their temperaments and preferences, the more a society fosters freedom of choice and equal opportunities, the more those differences manifest and lead to different choices and outcomes.
I am inserting this comment before watching and listening to your reaction. I think that men and women are equally important because we were creative differently for different purposes.
A few points 1) The lady on the panel is advocating for Equality of Outcome not Opportunity. Only through force you can have Equality of Outcome therefore you will deny many individuals of their liberty. 2) it has been determined that even from such a young age before socialization can occur, boys are more interested interacting with things and girls with people. This has an impact later. 3) What the Scandinavian studies show that as things become more egalitarian, the choices the men and women make divulge further. Men are more likely to pick STEM fields (Working with things) while women are more likely to pick fields that involve working with people like fields they dominate like teaching. Note a couple of exceptions for women and science fields. Veterinarians and MDs are being dominating more by women. 4) This is why Jordan was so effective by pointing out the choices women are not making like becoming bricklayers. 5) Personal belief, I believe that everyone ought to be able to achieve their dream PROVIDING they have the skill sets to achieve their dreams. I worshipped Nolan Ryan as a kid, but I would never be able to throw a baseball 100 MPH. If a woman wants to be the CEO of a company like Apple, I say more power to her. The question is will she be willing to work 60 hours every week? Not being their for their kids when their ill, sporting events, club activities, birthday parties etc etc. Most women are not willing to work to make those sacrifices. Quite frankly, most men are not either. This is why there are more store managers making a modest wage while CEOS making a substantial wage. 6)You will never have Equality of Outcome. The best we can do is strive for Equality of Opportunity. The best thing we can do is to see if we can help those develop the skills they need to achieve their dreams their dreams
Hey y’all! Another important reaction! IMHO the US would do well to adopt what is working in other countries as they have adopted our best practices. ✌🏼❤️🎶
It isn't getting worse. People are free to choose what they want to do, which is opposite from the lunatics that are trying to force people into things they are not interested in.
She wants equality in high paying government jobs & higher paying white collar office jobs. Not equality in brick & stone masons, appliance installers, furniture movers, high voltage powerline repair, deepsea commercial fishing, port-a-potty cleaner...etc. Being spoiled, sheltered, & self-righteous is a dangerous combination of ignorance.
On my first job site as an electrical Forman, it was mid-July in Alabama and I had a lady around 25 years old beg me for a job. I don't know if you have ever worked outside in the Alabama heat it is a different kind of heat. The only thing that I had open ATM was following the backhoe in a trench shoveling out dirt that fell out of the bucket. I told her that it will be 15 to 20 deg hotter in the ditch she took the job and by 1st break she was gone. This happened in 1995 and I have hired a few more women since with the same outcome. Oh by the way the starting pay was always the same regardless of who was holding the shovel. I didn't hear one complaint until a 19 year old girl whose dad was working for the carpenter crew tried to get me fired for discrimination against women. My boss called me and he fired her over the phone....LMAO! After that I didn't hire another woman, because I didn't want a chick that was bat shit crazy to claim one of my guys sexually assaulted them.
19:17 men that make me money generally work insane hours. Also willingly they earn more money. The only way to make that equal is to intentionally limit his hours and nobody wants that. Also universal free child care is a nightmare
Worth and value is not the same thing as he equal, and I think people misconstrue these words are men and women equal no we’ve never been equal and we never will be equal. In order for us to be equivalent we’d have to be the same and we’re not however that doesn’t mean women have more worth or value than men or vice versa. It just means we’re not equal cause we do different things and we’re built very differently.
I don't agree with EVERYTHING Jordan says, but he's well-versed in his field. When he's talking, you should at least hear him out even if you don't agree with him because he'll give you his thought processes. He has a very Socratic method of thinking where he will break every argument down into its smallest pieces and define them. Then he rebuilds it and comes to an end conclusion.
@@laurilewerenz5270 I didn't say he got every avenue of thought right. I just said he laid out his thought processes and lets you know how he came to that conclusion. Whether Socrates would agree with his conclusions or not is irrelevant. He's using Socrates' methods.
Doing the same job in the military, men have to run faster times and do more pushups than women during the PT test. Women generally speaking are better at sit-ups than men, but must do the same amount of sit-ups. Where is the equality?
if you want 'equality' in society between men and women there is no way to do that without forcing people to do jobs they do not want to do and/or that they are not suited for. because if you leave men and women alone and let them choose what they want to do the men will choose to work with things more often en women will choose to work with people more often.
The difference is what 17:50 says and how you write them and societal expectations. The problem with using studies the way he is using. He is trying to say that everything should be 50/50 and that the reality is that the majority of people who would apply to be a brick layer is men. But the law should be that a woman should be able to apply to be one and not be refused solely because she is a woman. The stats Jordan is using, I would need to go through the study. In the end, the law should allow equality. Also, the law should allow you the freedom to choose, which means you are never going to be 50/50. Especially since there are more women than men by population in the world. Now the question if you were going by Jordan's scales of 50-50 in everyrhing and that studies show that in every area of life you dont get 50-50. Ehat happens if you try to shift the scales to population density lol. I personally never go from 1 study to a different study. What I would have liked to know from Jordan is if he had the same study for that criteria and see what the progression is. Have women employment or participation grown, decreased, or stayed the same.
So, the laws in the U.S. right now make it illegal to not accept someone just because they are a woman. The studies he’s talking about show an increase in opportunity and show that women in general pick more people oriented fields. If a woman wants to be an engineer or work on an oil rig go ahead. Given the options women choose to stay around family/friends more(not move for work), inside jobs, and people.
@chrisf2636, you are making my point. Is that the law is to open the opportunity for women or anyone in general to apply for a job. They can not be screened out for simply being People still have their choice of the area they want to pursue. My other point was the way they use stats, this dude was using bricklayer. My point was that expecting 50% Women is ridiculous. Only way to judge is to take a survey done 20 years ago and compare to a survey today to get the progress. Today media uses 1 survey and says it means this but it is more nuanced
@ the Scandinavian studies he’s referring to have been done by numerous groups, not one study, multiple studies across decades. As the law and social pressures for equality have been pushed farther, the temperaments of the sexes and their job choices have divided more. More female nurses, more male engineers, these are the typical things vs people differences at a population level. There is tons of cross-over in the middle, and there’s not anything about capacity for one type of work or another it’s just that there are fewer females interested in engineering. And fewer males interested in nursing.
I'll explain the pay Gap myth cuz it's not pay they are referring to. When these people talk about "The wage Gap"/"The pay Gap" between men and woman and They are saying that "woman are only being PAID 70 to 75 cents for every dollar a man is paid for doing the same job they are" it is absolutely false and a horrible misrepresentation of what the statistic they are quoting. There is a difference between men and women money wise of 70 to 75% but that number is the difference in THE NATIONAL AVERAGE YEARLY INCOME of what ALL the men in the country make on average per year VS what ALL the woman in the country make on average per year. The men in the country over the course of the Year tend make 25 to 30% more, but that's across all jobs not people in one job versus other people in that same job, it doesn't account for how many hours a week they work, what type of profession they are in, how special is the field is etcetera etcetera etcetera Women working as Electricians, Plumbers and Auto mechanics make far more than men working as waiters, retail cashiers and office secretaries. Men working in those first 3 jobs make far more than woman who work in those last 3 jobs. Men have a tendency to work in skilled trade jobs like plumbers electricians Carpenters mechanics welders which are all very well-paying professions at a far higher rate than women. The Woman are not being paid unfairly because they are making less in a totally different profession. Look at it this way as well, if you could pay women 75 cents every dollar or 25% less to do the same job as men, what intelligent business owner out there would not have figured out by this point to never bother hiring men? You could fire all your male employees bring in all women and immediately save 25% on your labor costs! Business owners are not doing this because it isn't actually a real thing that they're paying women less not to mention it is illegal under US law. I actually called out a economics professor from the University of Calgary for intentionally perpetrating this falsehood on the radio asking him "How the hell did you get a job as an economics professor if you can't even understand a simple concept like the difference between hourly pay and average National yearly income?" Mr Trevor Tombe asked me what I was talking about and I told him that he was either intentionally lying on the radio or had absolutely no clue what he was talking about which one was it? I explained to him the number he was giving out was not what he was saying it was and did not represent hourly pay. I then tweeted him a link to the revenue Canada website where clearly states that statistic is the difference of national average yearly income between the two for the whole country. I asked him if he understood that that was a different concept than hourly pay at the same job and he was actually man enough to admit he stood corrected, he didn't realize that that statistic was not what politicians had been telling everybody it was.
Yes, she is asserting something that's wrong. Differences in men & women can not be explained cheifly by social conditioning. There are natural (complimentary) differences btwn m/f. You actually have to socially engineer the diffences in sexes away to create "eqaul" choices in career paths.
The woman on here seems to be pretty much an activist and goes by feelings and not factual studies. I wouldn’t believe anything that comes out of California as far as studies go.
Speaking of Amazing Rock Star Canadian Professors, you should also watch a few videos with Gad Saad. Same depth of knowledge and same complete lack of deference to stupid wokeness.
Actually, Jordan speaks objectively yet; in my opinion, it's all theory. It depends where the research was done. It's different all over the globe... Darealdeal
The research is conducted in most countries that have been modernized. The ones he’s speaking on in Scandinavian countries, have been reproduced with startling similarity. One of my favorite lines about parenting, “you are the shepherd of your children not the architect or engineer.” (Adhd psychologist) In societies that have equalized rights and pushed the most egalitarian policies allow more freedom of choice. In those societies you find more differences between temperament and job selection of the sexes. The argument at this point is do we allow the people to choose what they want or do we start incentivizing more and forcing equal outcomes.
Shame you have to qualify all your answers with. I’m not this. I’m not that. This is the problem in our society today and this is what gets people hurt trying to be so altruistic
Jordan Petterson is just so smug about everything...like he's the truth about everything. I've watched dozens of his videos and he's not impressive...as they say in Texas...all hat and not cattle when debating more informed individuals.
Still bizarre to me that people keep confusing the definition of this argument. All you need to know is the woman on the panel is saying "equality" but her argument is for complete "equity". She doesn't actually care if people have choices she wants everyone to come out with exactly the same outcome despite their choices. That's impossible without government force which is very bad for any society. Everyone has different outcomes, what's important is giving everyone the equal opportunity to do anything based on their own merit. I can't just choose to have no job and expect to get paid equally like someone who chose to have a job just for the sake of equity*
He’s saying the more bureaucratic forces try to encourage women to go into fields traditionally filled by men and vice versa the more people short themselves willingly into traditional roles in workplace and education. In other words most men don’t wish to become beauticians and women don’t generally rush to become construction workers. Thomas Sowell talks on much of this stuff eloquently
I guess some would call me old school… I have been married to the same man since 1990.. we were 19 when we said I do! Now, I worked until we had our first child and I MADE THE DECISION to stay at home with them! I feel my job as a mom was very important.. and now that they are grown, I’m thankful I did… they are all successful and good kids! Three boys and a girl! Men and women are not equals she needs to read the BIBLE haha love you both and Kris you keep me busy with all the content you’re dropping! ❤️Tennessee
19:17 men that make me money generally work insane hours. Also willingly they earn more money. The only way to make that equal is to intentionally limit his hours and nobody wants that. Also universal free child care is a nightmare
The lady is saying she'd like equality of outcome AND equality of opportunity, and JBP is saying you can't have both; if you have equality of opportunity, which is what western countries are mostly, men and women are naturally going to choose different jobs. No matter how hard you try to push the "nice" science jobs onto young women, most (not all) would still rather do something else.
This is a great way of breaking it down!
He's saying that when people have free choice
They go with more traditional gender roles
The data proves this, as Jordan keeps noting. Sweden is the most feminist nation on Earth, along with a few others, and women and men are MORE different. If you want men and women to be the same, you need Vietnam and Communist hellholes: but even there, they are fundamentally different, as it's the woman's role to give birth and be a mother, the very thing that most Western feminists are trying to avoid, or claiming to.
About 90% of firemen are men (in fact, I think it's often 98% but it depends); 90% of bricklayers and other outside/difficult jobs are men; 90% of active video gamers are men; 90% of tech people are men. This is true in most nations, more so, the Western nations with the most enforced equality of opportunity, and a fair amount of enforced outcome. About 80% of nurses are women; the rest are gay men, almost entirely (and my own experiences indicate as much). 80% of teachers of young children are women; 100% of mothers are women.
Likewise, 90% of people that like puzzles are men; 90% of sports people are men; and 90% of people in wars are men. Almost 100% of those in blacksmith jobs are men. About 90% of those in care jobs are women. 80% of people in psychology are women. About 80% of novelists and readers of fiction are women, with a major bias towards first-person POV and romance.
“The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.” --Aristotle
Definitely not a collab I was expecting! Love it, and always love JP discussions... His interviews often get a lot of attention but the real gold is in all of the lectures he's posted on his channel. It'd be really fun to see someone react to some of his series, particularly where he's breaking down the psychology of Disney movies - he does The Lion King and Pinocchio in depth it's amazing what you can learn from a Disney movie If you're looking for it.
The point he's making regarding Scandinavia is that they have done the most regarding making their society as gender neutral as possible - if you allow men and women to choose freely, they still tend to chose what you would consider "typical" or stereotypical for their gender, surprisingly even more so when extra effort made to avoid the stereotypical gender roles.
It's not that Scandinavia is getting "worse" or going backwards, it's that all of the efforts made to make things more equal are not resulting in the equal representation throughout all the sectors that they were hoping for/expecting.
Jordan's point is that equality of opportunity is just fine, but based on what we're seeing it's not inherently going to result in equal representation across the Spectrum and in a lot of ways enhances the differences in genders.
Equality of outcome it's a very separate but important distinction from equality of opportunity, because equalizing the outcome- making sure there's roughly 50/50 representation across the board- would almost definitely require forcing people into sectors they would not otherwise choose for themselves if given the opportunity; as is being born out in Scandinavia.
Jorden P wasn't saying that "it was going in the wrong direction". He was saying that the more that men and women have equal opportunity, they make different choices which results in unequal outcome. Unequal outcome is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, most women don't want to be brick layers even if that have equal opportunity to enter the field of brick laying.
Here for this! Britt I love that you’re branching out and checking out new content! JBP reactions are always fun to me because it’s intellectual and creates more conversation on important things :)
Thank you so much for appreciating and allowing me to evolve into new spaces!
@ absolutely! I’ve been watching you pretty much since you started and I’m excited to see how you choose to grow your channel! Your content may change, but a lot of us here come for YOU, and what you bring to this community you created! God bless you Britt! 🙏
That lady is the equivalent of me saying there isnt enough white nba players and skill players in the nfl we need to make it equal at any cost
Why is it looked at by women for it to be honorable to work cleaning other people’s houses, but sexist to clean your own home? Why is it equality for a woman to work outside the home as a daycare worker or a teacher, taking care of other people’s kids, but sexist to stay home and raise your own kids?
Men and women are different; you don't need a degree to spot that. We're also complimentary, which is why we're such a great team.
You can't shoehorn men and women into the same role because we were designed for different purposes - both of them equal in value!
Bingo, and why is that such a bad thing? It shouldn't be, but we're trying to make it that way.
How are they equal in value though ?
Womem tend to be more valued than men
@@sumairshirazi How is a horse equal to a jack rabbit? No direct comparison, because they're not the same. And that's the point.
Equal is not the same, there is a reason why we used to say that Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, gender roles was made to fit that and the time we where living in, not to put on over the other, we used to put women on a pedestal and protect them, some how feminism did convince the majority of us, that working 9-5 and paying tax was better for women.
We’re equal but we’re not the same. 2+2 equals 4. 1+3 also equals 4. Women aren’t meant to do everything men can do, we’re meant to do what men can’t do. Our strengths are complimentary. That’s why the traditional family structure is the best environment to create functional humans.
really? show me sociopath or serial killer who was not raised in a "traditional family "structure got news for you there are very few. Then look at kids raised in non traditional, especially families which people usually demonize & show me the same stats and you'll find no similar outcomes. It has nothing to do with traditional structure it has to do with raising a child with love and clear boundaries.
She doesn’t want equality. She wants equity. Equality of outcome, not opportunity.
But equality of outcome will never happen
Started watching the matt Walsh video, then saw this.
You’re the second person to say this! That algorithm power is real deal!
Omg same!
In the US the fight for gender equality has driven men into a loneliness epidemic. This "fight"against toxic masculinity and the "patriarchy"has lead to worsening outcomes. Affirmative action has ultimately skewed the system towards females. As JP states the more we try to move towards equality the farther we actually come from it.
No man wants to deal with toxic femininity which is what the left is pushing. A man won't be stick around if he doesn't feel needed
"Mr Gotti is it true you're the boss of the gambino crime family?
"no, I am a member of the Gotti family and last time I checked MY WIFE IS THE BOSS!" - John Gotti 😂
The Barbarian and Haku are two very famous Tongan wrestlers who are known for being two of THE TOUGHEST men in the history of the pro wrestling business. The ONLY two people those men are afraid of on this planet is their wives!"
That tells you all you need to know about the patriarchy LOL
Great Reaction...... Nice seeing the 2 of you collaborating.....
Maybe an Unpopular Opinion..... I think a "50-50" relationship is where each pardner is happy with the amount of effort (Money/Chores) that each pardner is putting into the relationship......
That might be one pardner provides 100% of the money, and the other does 100% of the chores..... Or it could be each contributes 50% of money and does 50% of the Chores.....
Ultimately it needs to be decided by the individuals in THAT relationship..........
First off, you can provide an environment of equal opportunities but that in itself propagates there will never be equal outcomes (equity). People are interested in what interest them and in such run to the opportunities of interest. Interest does not necessarily reflect talent... although talent does influence interest, See, everyone strives to an interest based upon their talents and physical abilities along with the shear mental aptitude and desire to pursue it - you love to do things you're extremely good at. So it's really near impossible for two people on the planet to be so much alike that they're equal in every aspect.
If women have a choice, and even when women don’t have a choice, they won’t be garbage Men, plumbers, roofers, mechanics, surgeons, Dentists, truck drivers etc: and the list goes on. Women do not want work outside. They don’t want to work overtime. And they sure don’t want to sweat for a living. Yes every field has women, but at a very low percentage. All Jordan is saying is women choose fields that attract what women’s interests are. And men do the same.
Krizz, Jordan doesn't say it's not "getting better" or that it is going in the "wrong direction". He's saying the outcome is what it is, and it's not what the lefties WANT/expect it to be. The more egalitarian (allowing women more freedom to choose) country's statistics show that the women are choosing even MORE along "traditional" role lines. Ergo, the choices that women make are more driven by their natural disposition, as opposed to choices that society is "forcing" upon them. This is anathema to the left, so, as the woman on the panel shows, it cannot be accepted by them.
MAGAT thinking
Oh, and Britt you are a strong, smart woman and one of the sweetest, most beautiful people on the internet. BTW Krizz is a very handsome, smart dude. ✌🏼❤️🎶
I love seeing all my favorite reactors all being friends. ❤️
#reactorsunite 🥰
Love all Jordan’s interviews, talks, and even classes.
Dr. Peterson in my opinion is a high moral, highly educated man , that the world needs to listen to
Jordan is correct
It’s like race, religion or politics. We should celebrate and respect our differences. ✌🏼❤️🎶
They want more equality for the cool jobs but they never mention equality for ditch diggers or brick layers or prison
You should both react to The Inconvenient Truth about the Democrat Party & Republican Party.
This discussion has nothing to do with political parties.
@@lamusiclover2264 It does actually
Hey y’all! Another important reaction!
IMHO the US would do well to adopt what is working in other countries as they have adopted our best practices. ✌🏼❤️🎶
This was a terrific debate!
Krizz I saw a female psychologist say that women and men’s brains are wired differently. Neither is superior, just different. ✌🏼❤️🎶
The thing about Dr. Peterson is that he's also very humble. I've watched a discourse between him and someone else who asked him a question and pointed out a flaw in Peterson's thinking. Jordan, after a bit of time to think, simply said: "I'll have to give that more thought, I might be wrong about this..."
Love this ❤
Love Jordan, take the time to really hear him, knowledge is liberating.
Oh and the whole pay gap thing it’s been proven false because it’s not a sexual disparity it’s that men can and do work more hours and compete harder than women who are more agreeable and avoid conflict. And how are you going to force equality of outcome when someone isn’t striving as hard as another person,you get for productivity.
It's called 'Communism'. You beat the talent out of the talented so that everyone does everything at the same incredibly inept level.
Just finished watching the Matt Walsh one. This has turned out to be a great evening.
I love that for you!
Why are they keep wanting to force people to change of who they are to appease their little equality thing. The opportunities there for them they're just not choosing to go that route not because of societal pressure which you're trying to put on them but just in their human nature of what they gravitate towards.
Jordan is a competent clinical psychologist.
In our military and police the standards are lowered for the women because the majority of women can’t physically do what men can do!
You can either give people the freedom to choose, or you can have equality of outcome. That's it.
He’s saying the more bureaucratic forces try to encourage women to go into fields traditionally filled by men and vice versa the more people short themselves willingly into traditional roles in workplace and education. In other words most men don’t wish to become beauticians and women don’t generally rush to become construction workers. Thomas Sowell talks on much of this stuff eloquently
He's saying that when people have free choice
They go with more traditional gender roles
Jordan Peterson is smart enough that he doesn't seem normal. But he's almost always got the facts on his side. He's a literal psychologist, and so he often comes from a highly technical perspective. Defining something like "equal" is always the trick. The woman wants to create "equal outcomes" by granting more parental leave. But that means some men are doing MORE work to support the leave of those taking advantage of it. Is that an "equal outcome"?
its called cherry picking or selecting facts to suit your narrative. All his "facts" and data are very selective. and he takes nothing about societal pressure into account.
Dr Peterson is saying that the more freedom we get the greater the differences between men and women becomes, because men and women tend to choose different things majors, different jobs, different choices in life. Therefore the outcome is not the same I.e. there is no equality of outcome unless a government forces you by taking away your freedom
Love JP❤ his self authoring program is very helpful!
I guess some would call me old school… I have been married to the same man since 1990.. we were 19 when we said I do! Now, I worked until we had our first child and I MADE THE DECISION to stay at home with them! I feel my job as a mom was very important.. and now that they are grown, I’m thankful I did… they are all successful and good kids! Three boys and a girl! Men and women are not equals she needs to read the BIBLE haha love you both and Kris you keep me busy with all the content you’re dropping! ❤️Tennessee
Jordan is talking about equality, period, she is talking about equality of outcome which is actually equity and not equality. There is no way to achieve equity, no two people are going to achieve the same levels in the end and to force people to step aside or allow unqualified people to achieve the same level is just wrong.
There is a way. It's called 'unpersoning' the talented. When no one has any incentive to do a good job, everyone does an equally bad job.
Home economics is a full time career that in recent times everyone is calling out sick.
And the children, personal finances, and health of the family is sacrificed.
11:21 I haven’t finished the video yet so you might get to this at some point. What Jordan is saying is that, because there are biological differences between men and women that have an impact in their temperaments and preferences, the more a society fosters freedom of choice and equal opportunities, the more those differences manifest and lead to different choices and outcomes.
I am inserting this comment before watching and listening to your reaction. I think that men and women are equally important because we were creative differently for different purposes.
A few points
1) The lady on the panel is advocating for Equality of Outcome not Opportunity. Only through force you can have Equality of Outcome therefore you will deny many individuals of their liberty.
2) it has been determined that even from such a young age before socialization can occur, boys are more interested interacting with things and girls with people. This has an impact later.
3) What the Scandinavian studies show that as things become more egalitarian, the choices the men and women make divulge further. Men are more likely to pick STEM fields (Working with things) while women are more likely to pick fields that involve working with people like fields they dominate like teaching. Note a couple of exceptions for women and science fields. Veterinarians and MDs are being dominating more by women.
4) This is why Jordan was so effective by pointing out the choices women are not making like becoming bricklayers.
5) Personal belief, I believe that everyone ought to be able to achieve their dream PROVIDING they have the skill sets to achieve their dreams. I worshipped Nolan Ryan as a kid, but I would never be able to throw a baseball 100 MPH. If a woman wants to be the CEO of a company like Apple, I say more power to her. The question is will she be willing to work 60 hours every week? Not being their for their kids when their ill, sporting events, club activities, birthday parties etc etc. Most women are not willing to work to make those sacrifices. Quite frankly, most men are not either. This is why there are more store managers making a modest wage while CEOS making a substantial wage.
6)You will never have Equality of Outcome. The best we can do is strive for Equality of Opportunity. The best thing we can do is to see if we can help those develop the skills they need to achieve their dreams their dreams
Has Britt reacted to any Kevin Samuels yet?
19:10
Jordan’s Big 5 personality traits speaks of the differences between men and women
Jordan has once in a generation intellect.
Hey y’all! Another important reaction!
IMHO the US would do well to adopt what is working in other countries as they have adopted our best practices. ✌🏼❤️🎶
There are literally video's of female cops who have difficulties arresting men as men can shrug them off and run away.
It isn't getting worse. People are free to choose what they want to do, which is opposite from the lunatics that are trying to force people into things they are not interested in.
She wants equality in high paying government jobs & higher paying white collar office jobs. Not equality in brick & stone masons, appliance installers, furniture movers, high voltage powerline repair, deepsea commercial fishing, port-a-potty cleaner...etc. Being spoiled, sheltered, & self-righteous is a dangerous combination of ignorance.
On my first job site as an electrical Forman, it was mid-July in Alabama and I had a lady around 25 years old beg me for a job. I don't know if you have ever worked outside in the Alabama heat it is a different kind of heat. The only thing that I had open ATM was following the backhoe in a trench shoveling out dirt that fell out of the bucket. I told her that it will be 15 to 20 deg hotter in the ditch she took the job and by 1st break she was gone. This happened in 1995 and I have hired a few more women since with the same outcome.
Oh by the way the starting pay was always the same regardless of who was holding the shovel. I didn't hear one complaint until a 19 year old girl whose dad was working for the carpenter crew tried to get me fired for discrimination against women. My boss called me and he fired her over the phone....LMAO! After that I didn't hire another woman, because I didn't want a chick that was bat shit crazy to claim one of my guys sexually assaulted them.
19:17 men that make me money generally work insane hours. Also willingly they earn more money. The only way to make that equal is to intentionally limit his hours and nobody wants that. Also universal free child care is a nightmare
I just don’t think equality of outcome is even possible. Particularly if we want to simultaneously assert our individuality.
I think men and women are equal in our worth to God
Worth and value is not the same thing as he equal, and I think people misconstrue these words are men and women equal no we’ve never been equal and we never will be equal. In order for us to be equivalent we’d have to be the same and we’re not however that doesn’t mean women have more worth or value than men or vice versa. It just means we’re not equal cause we do different things and we’re built very differently.
Watch more Jordan Peterson
Full vids too because he spits information like nothing
Much love 💗
I don't agree with EVERYTHING Jordan says, but he's well-versed in his field. When he's talking, you should at least hear him out even if you don't agree with him because he'll give you his thought processes. He has a very Socratic method of thinking where he will break every argument down into its smallest pieces and define them. Then he rebuilds it and comes to an end conclusion.
you need to go back to philosophy school. Socrates would totally rip him and his inconsistent illogical thoughts apart.
@@laurilewerenz5270 I didn't say he got every avenue of thought right. I just said he laid out his thought processes and lets you know how he came to that conclusion. Whether Socrates would agree with his conclusions or not is irrelevant. He's using Socrates' methods.
If you have not seen it you need to watch the one he did with C4...Search Jordan Peterson so you're saying. Its a classic....
Doing the same job in the military, men have to run faster times and do more pushups than women during the PT test. Women generally speaking are better at sit-ups than men, but must do the same amount of sit-ups. Where is the equality?
Great topic but I'd like to see Britt solo on these types of videos
You should introduce krizz to Mr Thomas Sowell
if you want 'equality' in society between men and women there is no way to do that without forcing people to do jobs they do not want to do and/or that they are not suited for.
because if you leave men and women alone and let them choose what they want to do the men will choose to work with things more often en women will choose to work with people more often.
The difference is what 17:50 says and how you write them and societal expectations. The problem with using studies the way he is using. He is trying to say that everything should be 50/50 and that the reality is that the majority of people who would apply to be a brick layer is men. But the law should be that a woman should be able to apply to be one and not be refused solely because she is a woman. The stats Jordan is using, I would need to go through the study. In the end, the law should allow equality. Also, the law should allow you the freedom to choose, which means you are never going to be 50/50. Especially since there are more women than men by population in the world. Now the question if you were going by Jordan's scales of 50-50 in everyrhing and that studies show that in every area of life you dont get 50-50. Ehat happens if you try to shift the scales to population density lol. I personally never go from 1 study to a different study. What I would have liked to know from Jordan is if he had the same study for that criteria and see what the progression is. Have women employment or participation grown, decreased, or stayed the same.
So, the laws in the U.S. right now make it illegal to not accept someone just because they are a woman. The studies he’s talking about show an increase in opportunity and show that women in general pick more people oriented fields. If a woman wants to be an engineer or work on an oil rig go ahead. Given the options women choose to stay around family/friends more(not move for work), inside jobs, and people.
@chrisf2636, you are making my point. Is that the law is to open the opportunity for women or anyone in general to apply for a job. They can not be screened out for simply being People still have their choice of the area they want to pursue. My other point was the way they use stats, this dude was using bricklayer. My point was that expecting 50% Women is ridiculous. Only way to judge is to take a survey done 20 years ago and compare to a survey today to get the progress. Today media uses 1 survey and says it means this but it is more nuanced
@ the Scandinavian studies he’s referring to have been done by numerous groups, not one study, multiple studies across decades. As the law and social pressures for equality have been pushed farther, the temperaments of the sexes and their job choices have divided more. More female nurses, more male engineers, these are the typical things vs people differences at a population level. There is tons of cross-over in the middle, and there’s not anything about capacity for one type of work or another it’s just that there are fewer females interested in engineering. And fewer males interested in nursing.
What is STEM?
Really???
Your kids must be young.
You guys are saying he's so smart...no at all. I can't remember the guy's name...but he kicks Peterson's ass EVERY TIME>
I'll explain the pay Gap myth cuz it's not pay they are referring to.
When these people talk about "The wage Gap"/"The pay Gap" between men and woman and They are saying that "woman are only being PAID 70 to 75 cents for every dollar a man is paid for doing the same job they are" it is absolutely false and a horrible misrepresentation of what the statistic they are quoting. There is a difference between men and women money wise of 70 to 75% but that number is the difference in THE NATIONAL AVERAGE YEARLY INCOME of what ALL the men in the country make on average per year VS what ALL the woman in the country make on average per year. The men in the country over the course of the Year tend make 25 to 30% more, but that's across all jobs not people in one job versus other people in that same job, it doesn't account for how many hours a week they work, what type of profession they are in, how special is the field is etcetera etcetera etcetera
Women working as Electricians, Plumbers and Auto mechanics make far more than men working as waiters, retail cashiers and office secretaries. Men working in those first 3 jobs make far more than woman who work in those last 3 jobs. Men have a tendency to work in skilled trade jobs like plumbers electricians Carpenters mechanics welders which are all very well-paying professions at a far higher rate than women. The Woman are not being paid unfairly because they are making less in a totally different profession.
Look at it this way as well, if you could pay women 75 cents every dollar or 25% less to do the same job as men, what intelligent business owner out there would not have figured out by this point to never bother hiring men? You could fire all your male employees bring in all women and immediately save 25% on your labor costs! Business owners are not doing this because it isn't actually a real thing that they're paying women less not to mention it is illegal under US law.
I actually called out a economics professor from the University of Calgary for intentionally perpetrating this falsehood on the radio asking him "How the hell did you get a job as an economics professor if you can't even understand a simple concept like the difference between hourly pay and average National yearly income?" Mr Trevor Tombe asked me what I was talking about and I told him that he was either intentionally lying on the radio or had absolutely no clue what he was talking about which one was it? I explained to him the number he was giving out was not what he was saying it was and did not represent hourly pay. I then tweeted him a link to the revenue Canada website where clearly states that statistic is the difference of national average yearly income between the two for the whole country. I asked him if he understood that that was a different concept than hourly pay at the same job and he was actually man enough to admit he stood corrected, he didn't realize that that statistic was not what politicians had been telling everybody it was.
Female only fans models make substantially more money than man can we equalize that as well
Yes, she is asserting something that's wrong. Differences in men & women can not be explained cheifly by social conditioning. There are natural (complimentary) differences btwn m/f. You actually have to socially engineer the diffences in sexes away to create "eqaul" choices in career paths.
The woman on here seems to be pretty much an activist and goes by feelings and not factual studies. I wouldn’t believe anything that comes out of California as far as studies go.
Agree.
Speaking of Amazing Rock Star Canadian Professors, you should also watch a few videos with Gad Saad. Same depth of knowledge and same complete lack of deference to stupid wokeness.
Actually, Jordan speaks objectively yet; in my opinion, it's all theory. It depends where the research was done. It's different all over the globe...
Darealdeal
you mean parts of world where there less equality and less segregation..? your so called theory is factual research across the globe...
🥰
The research is conducted in most countries that have been modernized. The ones he’s speaking on in Scandinavian countries, have been reproduced with startling similarity. One of my favorite lines about parenting, “you are the shepherd of your children not the architect or engineer.” (Adhd psychologist) In societies that have equalized rights and pushed the most egalitarian policies allow more freedom of choice. In those societies you find more differences between temperament and job selection of the sexes.
The argument at this point is do we allow the people to choose what they want or do we start incentivizing more and forcing equal outcomes.
🤚
Shame you have to qualify all your answers with. I’m not this. I’m not that. This is the problem in our society today and this is what gets people hurt trying to be so altruistic
Peterson 🤮
Jordan Petterson is just so smug about everything...like he's the truth about everything. I've watched dozens of his videos and he's not impressive...as they say in Texas...all hat and not cattle when debating more informed individuals.
Still bizarre to me that people keep confusing the definition of this argument. All you need to know is the woman on the panel is saying "equality" but her argument is for complete "equity". She doesn't actually care if people have choices she wants everyone to come out with exactly the same outcome despite their choices. That's impossible without government force which is very bad for any society. Everyone has different outcomes, what's important is giving everyone the equal opportunity to do anything based on their own merit. I can't just choose to have no job and expect to get paid equally like someone who chose to have a job just for the sake of equity*
He’s saying the more bureaucratic forces try to encourage women to go into fields traditionally filled by men and vice versa the more people short themselves willingly into traditional roles in workplace and education. In other words most men don’t wish to become beauticians and women don’t generally rush to become construction workers. Thomas Sowell talks on much of this stuff eloquently
I guess some would call me old school… I have been married to the same man since 1990.. we were 19 when we said I do! Now, I worked until we had our first child and I MADE THE DECISION to stay at home with them! I feel my job as a mom was very important.. and now that they are grown, I’m thankful I did… they are all successful and good kids! Three boys and a girl! Men and women are not equals she needs to read the BIBLE haha love you both and Kris you keep me busy with all the content you’re dropping! ❤️Tennessee
19:17 men that make me money generally work insane hours. Also willingly they earn more money. The only way to make that equal is to intentionally limit his hours and nobody wants that. Also universal free child care is a nightmare
Agree.