As a commited practitioner, inspired, taught, and healed by the Thai Forest Tradition, (which I hold in the highest regard), all I can say is how upsetting it is to see this form of Theravada Buddhism, which has helped me so much, let itself down and allow itself to appear to be stuck in a cultural hole. My admiration for Ajahn Brahm has gone through the roof. I applaud him and fully support all that he is doing. Having said that, the Thai Forest Tradition of Luangpor Chah continues to grow and flourish across the world and I will always respect it. Change will come I'm sure, in fact change HAS come.... We can't deny 50% of the human race full ordination because of faulty reasoning and discriminatory attitudes. (In my humble opinion 🙏🙏🙏)
Sean Macleod well said...moral of the story is follow teachings not teachers. Teachers must follow what they themselves teach. Never follow traditions or teachers blindly...Buddhist means of the Buddha which means we refer to what the Buddha taught about certain issues in this case bhikkhuni ordination. Well learnt scholars like Bhikkhu Bodhi Analayo and Ajahn Sujato and of course Ajahn Brahmavamso have proven there is no issues about bhikkhuni ordination (outside of Theravada heartland). Moreover the late Ayya Khema was the first Western nun in Sri Lanka a Theravadan land
Buddhist society of western australia is a wonderfull place. they also put the talks on there youtube channel. and inspire people over the intire world,
May Buddha bless you all, Buddhist monks and nuns, who are sincerely practising Buddhism. Buddhism is about heart and mind. I am not a monastery nun but practise Buddhism, in compassion and mindfulness, I have found peace and joy in my heart.. I also found out that chanting Buddhist prayers and impart merits helps to bring peace to the home. That is my own experience.
Let there be bikkuni ordination again and budhism spread far and wide and may peace prevail on earth.Arahant Maha prajapathi gothami 2nd mother of Lord Buddha started bikkuni ordination.. Let it continue again! With Love from Sri lanka
From Australia , Vietnamese Buddhist!! Touching my heart, I just want to know, too!! Why don’t let them do it, nun or monk is only the covers of outside, we the same !! Please let the nun have it the same as monk!! We are equally front of THE BUDDHA!!!!
Buddhism is open and does not encourage divides. Even the Buddha said that a person must seek his or her own salvation. So let those who seek enlightenment have the freedom to practice as they wish. Those who discriminate are to me the ones who need to rethink their attitudes towards bikkhunis. Power and control are at play here. And that is worrisome
@@robbiepeterh u r so delusional.... Actually from the beginning the monks didn't have vinaya(code of conduct) but when some monks started doing wrong little by little the buddha started put vinaya for both monks & nuns , he put them after some deed was done to protect them & their path towards enlightment & to make sure they don't do them again.... The buddha is the most perfect there's no one who can be compared to the buddha....
The Buddha taught men and women equal, no self. Therefore you either follow Buddha's teachings or you don't. You do not pick and choose you remain mindful. Blessings
hahahah...that's awesome!!!...you eaither do you you don't, you don't pick and choose,....lol, except regarding the code of discipline he gave right... ? lol...ahhh that's rich...nice;-)
"But Buddha gave the basic rights equally to both sangha groups. There is no point in discussing whether or not to revive the bhikshuni ordination; the question is merely how to do so properly within the context of the Vinaya." His Holiness the Dalai-Lama (see wiki page on bhikkhunis
Sad, when I see this clip title. Actually, Buddha was the first person who accepted/introduced the gender equality, and women became nun. That was in over 2600years ago, against the cultural at that time, and highlighted the part of meaningful life or human being.
Beautiful documentary Thank you. If Buddha conformed to tradition, we don't have Buddha or Buddhism. So it is against Buddha's teaçhings. Wow, Bravo to Ajahn Brahm, who's the modern day Buddha, doing the right thing unbound by tradition! .
I also feel good to start this vikkhuni sasana in Nepal n other places worldwide. Wishing all the best for all vikkhunis who have been working for this.
The social situations during Buddha’s era was full of defilements and discriminatory and Buddha purified the world and made sure women too got the opportunity to meditate. It’s sad that today women are discriminated in many places of monastics. I really respect and love those people who work tirelessly for the upliftment of women. May all beings be happy.
Fascinating and somewhat disturbing to see such discrimination which I never thought would be present in such a blatant and controlling way. Excellent video.
1. As far as I have learned :- No where in the Buddhist dhamma, any mention of disparity between the 2 sexes. 2. This is supported by the tenet of Non Self-there IS no disparity between the sexes. 3.There is no discrimation or unjust in Buddhism. It is the human factor that creates this. 4. Conclusion, you don't need another outside agency to legalized your practise of Buddhism. It is already given by Buddha himself. You should not shackle yourself by seeking such recognition. You should just stay the course and practise the Dhamma. 5. if you can do all these, then you realised (whether you are a laity, man, woman, devas or sentient beings) then this recognition is superfluous - it is already there. You can say it is Buddhism given right-nobody can take away from you. 6. Walk and practise the path without placing all these constraints upon yourself. Enlightenment is like hunger, no one can cause it nor eat on your behalf to resolve it.
a good response, recognition is a worldly dharma, and attachment to it must be renounced in order to achieve the freedom that Buddha's dispensation actually leads to and without which has not real value or point, Buddhism is special because it goes beyond the world....well put...keep practicing...
Exactly why i talk a lot about a Buddhist renaissance. It is very culture influenced which is nice: in that place. We should not fight against anything but the natural flow will ultimately re-create the Bhikunni order, and justly so.
Thai Sangha Institution is currently under great reform due to countless scandals. Sadly, many monks holding these "ranks" lack a progressive education therefore I do not expect any forward movement on this issue. Please take heart. If you study Buddhism you will also realize that aside from Bhikkhunis lay people are also encouraged to practice--there is no divide. The Buddha was not opposed to family which he said is the source of happiness. Thai people support good Bhikkunis and practitioners who are earnest in their practice and worthy of respect and support.
No one can stop anyone from practicing the Buddha’s teaching, it’s about cultivating the knowledge , integrating into our way of life and continue unrelentingly throughout our lives. If our purpose is to exit the circle of birth and death we must not let the standards of material world hold us back; it’s not part of our real self and to be let go anyway. Concentrating on learning, understanding and practice in every day life. The Buddha’s teaching is for everyone without discrimination; have true faith in the Buddha, Dharma and Sunkha, understanding the Four Arriyasaj, walk the Eight Fold Path , follow the Buddha we can achieve the highest goal as well. We must experience the facts and face our real self: no one can grant or do it for us. Best wishes for all.
I suppport you, I support the Sangha, I fully support those that know the Truth, I support those That want to ordain and continue to practice & sharre the Lord Buddhas Teaching. Thank you for your diligence , energy, motivation and practicing the Buddhas teaching in a different time, different countries,under different customs. When practicing they Middle way proper understanding and Equanimity help. Life is fuller when one does not discriminate or differentiate.- may you all abide in Well Being, continue in the way and Be Happy
Beautiful courageous persons! I am so glad to see bhikkhunis. Oh so glad. I would like to have them as teachers! So much more, so much more than the conservative, rigid, power-controling, discriminating men. So much more. In his days the Buddha was precisely going against conservative attitudes like that! How ironic and unworthy of his efforts. These nuns have amazing unique qualities. We desperately need them. From now on I will give whatever support I can to the nuns. And I will only associate with open, wise and good hearted monks, with those who make the sangha as the Buddha intended.
I’m a Buddhist and never knew there was gender bias!!!! I thought it was all equal!!!! As a lay man, I’m willing to listen to and follow any monk or nun who practices and teaches the word of Buddha.
Happiness coming out from the heart. Happiness not depend on your situation. I have my happiness in the bad situation. Buddhism show fake happiness. Bcos happiness is leave your children, stay away from your parents. You just run out from disappointed life. The act to deny your problem. YAHWEH through Jesus Christ the only true God can give you happiness, freedom also in every situation. Bcoz He worked in your spirit not body. Who walk like bikkhu, Buddha, live in vain. You become burden to other people. You can't help other people. As Buddha said he also can't help you. You ownself have to find your way. But Jesus said, Come to Me. I will give you eternal life. Becoz I'm The Way, The Truth and the Eternal life.
@@@WhoisWhowasWhoistocome Jesus is just an ordinary man who wants to be king and call himself a god. True God is not born and nourished by human. Sidarta Gautama is the best man who never claimed to be a god , despite a prince he did not want to be a king .Buddha is a proper teaching to follow💯%.
Dear@@angelkhoo128 Sidharta is exactly irresponsible man. He left his family, his wife and son. He doesnt know his future. If he knew his future, he hadnot to marry then to left her behind. Its mean, before he become a Buddha he just an ordinary human like you and me, of course with sin, lust of flesh, lust of eye. Like the man today who left his family, and tommorow will known as the best man for blind woman in other country. Jesus is blameless, no sin, the Light of the world. Bible wrote it. He is exactly not human like Buddha. In generation by generation all the Israel prophets wrote about His coming. Jesus said, before Abraham was born, I AM! Abraham born 2018 BC. Who do you think He is? Where is Buddha now??? Can he help you? Can you meet your 100% best man? Jesus alive. And He still help us His people all over the world. I have experienced walk with Him everyday. You also can ask Him, if you want to meet Him. You just need humble yourself. John 1:9-11 The True Light (JESUS) that gives light to every man was coming into the world. HE was in the world, and though the world was made through HIM, the world did not recognize HIM . HE came to that which was HIS own, but his own did not receive HIM .
@Juliana Mei Do you think a hero would rather have fun living in the palace with his family? but because he felt responsible for the suffering of the people he saw when he first left the palace, he was so sad to see the pain of pain and death that he had to sacrifice his life in a happy way to get answers. the Buddha's rays are incredible. he worked hard to find the knowledge to teach his students. he was a great teacher of science and mathematics who was very logic and real without magic, he taught medical science instead of magic teaching the vast knowledge that encompasses all the elements and energies of the earth and sky. only a narrow-minded person who saw the Buddha leave his wife and father but never asked what was the mission of leaving his family? only the Buddha explained the knowledge from the origin of water, atoms and dust to the size of the earth and the vastness of the universe. I am proud to follow Buddhist teachings that have reached billions of planets instead of planet earth. maybe if i judge between jesus and nikola tesla i will give it a 5 star tesla because it is capable of generating electricity that illuminates the world and is very useful for modern life 4 star jesus because it can heal the sick and revive the dead but less useful due to the fact that the sick can only be treated medically.
Juliana it is true that the Buddha never claimed to be God or a prophet, but what was interesting about the birth of Buddha? he was born of a father and mother with a very clear status as a result of the marriage of a king and empress, he was born and continues to be able to walk; that's the difference between the Buddha, me and you.
I've been to Thailand many times and I've met many monks and mae chee. And I can honestly say that I get more inspiration from the mae chee I've met and there is one major reason for this. All Buddhists know that the Buddha labelled the 'world' as having 3 'marks' : suffering, impermanence and no-self. Whilst there are many in the world showing a very strong sense of 'self', many many of the mae chee I've met show no sign of this at all. They quietly, humbly and unobtrusively get on with whatever is required in the moment. They smile compassionately and 'wai' respectively to everyone. They demonstrate to me what it is like to REALLY 'let go'. I'm happy that there are many people in the world willing to support the ordination of women, allowing them the same conditions the men enjoy. But I hope the ones that do are able to separate themselves from what is 'right' and 'indiscriminate' and let the 'great powers' that make the rules continue with their lives, but take care to let go of their own.
It's easier to let go and accept the things as they are when one, self or no-self do not know any better or is not allowed, or when one is entitled some privileges and rights only exclusively by his gender.
It is a disgrace how these women have been treated by an archaic and patriarchal system that is not even following the Buddha's direction. Rather than want to be accepted by it or be a part of it women can realise there true nature independently of these pompous, autocratic males who are nowhere near even spiritually awake, let alone enlightened. Spiritual Awakening and Enlightenment is waking up out of these kinds narrow and oppressive views to realise the true Self as Buddha Nature is the same for all irrespective of gender or any other appearance of form. It is blatant sexism and obvious discrimination in another male dominated and patriarchal religion.
@Yoswin Freeman the men can ordain them. Your logic is flawed. If what you say is right, then the nuns will never get full ordination. They explain in the video. In Bhutan, they had similar issue, and they overcame it with help from high lamas and the king and queen. Because they had the will to change. You are just making excuses for your blatant sexism.
@Yoswin Freeman what if the male monk lineage died out, but the female lineage was still intact, then there was a big change, and men wanted ordination. Would you tell them, "tough luck"? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! This is nothing but pride. Ugly, deadly pride and has nothing to do with being a Buddhist. And please site your sources claiming Vajrayana says women body is inferior. You "don't want to waste your time " with me because you got nothing. Nada.
@Yoswin Freeman May I add: when all are equal, ordination should not be decided through gender, but through truth of spirit mind and heart. Whoever is called and pursues the path needs community support to bring out greater strengths inwardly to assist in helping this whole planet in faith and trust in the essential goodness in people. I hope this statement of faith will encourage lovingkindness and compassion.
Thank you so much 🙏 I'm only been digging Theravada Budhism for three years almost from scratch, but this question about discrimination has been troubling me a lot. Ajahm Brahm did what just had to be done, knowing that he was going to be severely punished by many of his peers, and for that, certainly he do not want to be that, but he is a true Hero. The explanation that thai nuns and lay women are ok with how the things are, and they do not want to change it, is a perfect example of the so called Stocholm Syndrome, a millenary example
I'm totally disappointed, during Buddha time even a prostitute, had the same right to ordained, why in this modern days highest ranked Terevada monks, set such an unfair rules and regulations! This is out of Buddha shakyamuni Buddha genuine teaching!
Fantastic movie! Thank you! It is hard to believe that even Buddhism can be so unjust and discriminating. What is there a woman couldn't do, that a man can?
Did you watch carefully? The problem was due to the lineage being broken in Theravada sect. In Mahayana however, women are still being ordained as the lineage is still there.
Rich Brook - sadly not all lineages accept women as equal to men. Even Dalai Lama was mumbling something unclear in defence why nuns aren't treated equal. It is the way it is....
Curious Diva It is more than and beyond gender issue. It says in Vajrayana that men have all the hundred elements (don’t know the correct word) of both peaceful & wrathful deities in them due to their previous lives’ KARMA and merits or virtue whatever you name it, but women have only half of them also due to their previous KARMA and how much merits they did in their previous lives. You can say it’s like two vessels, one can hold more and the other less. It says in one of Buddha’s sutra that when Ananda, Buddha’s main disciple was requested by some women including Buddha’s aunt to become nun and when he told Buddha about what they were requesting Buddha was not willing to give permission at first, after Ananda made many request finally Buddha gave permission. With that Buddha also warned them that Dharma will live 500 years less than its actual live due to that. So ordination of women might not be suitable for the survival of Buddha Dharma or teachings, I assume 🤔. There must be some reason when Enlightened One had said those things. Think about why all the past and present Buddhas were all male and all the future Buddhas would also be male.
What a shock these 5 rules made up in Amaravati (England) after the counsil in 2007... But I hope (for all) that they will come out of such dark point of view (if they haven't changed already).
As a practising Buddhist, I think that women should not look down on men, even though men have only got one X-Chromosome, and women have two. And all abilities like f.e. intelligence are located on the X-Chromosome. Having said this, I advise Thai sisters to live their rights. Not ask men for permission. If Thai men are discrimitating nuns, may the Buddha enlighten the men and let us all pray for the men's wisdom. As obviously they need it.
Now that i saw this documentary all my admiration on the Buddhism die out. When we see obstacles created to hinder a fight that should never have existed, much less nowadays, and played at the backstage like that of politicians, it makes me think that perhaps what is being preached wasn't so much a way of be and live , or the old teachings have already been distorted and coated with hypocrisy! All creatures are the same as us, but in our own species we are different by gender! Conscience and awereness is what is missing to some. A little more effort maybe to achieve it! My sincere thanks to the nuns for everything and my support in their quest ! For me, all of you Nuns are more valuable and more integrated in the principles than those who deny you something that in itself should be natural and in accordance with the principles.
This was Disheartening to see how pervasive sexism & patriarchy are even in such a noble path. You can hear the good heart in Ajahn Brahm -this is all of our potential. To see with wisdom & compassion, without discrimination. He’s not threatened, what is there to be threatened by? You can hear how threatening women are to those in power & attached & clinging to their views in their favor/to dominate others. Buddha teaches us not to do what these men are feeding in themselves. Makes me want out even more, it never ends.
Well said Marco. I didn’t realize this was behind the scenes while we’re taught metta to all beings freedom, 5 precepts, Buddha’s teachings seem to be lip service to some. So sad even the Dali llama caved in to peer pressure.It seems clear this benefits the men. Clearly not all men have this poison in their hearts. Like politics too-you find out through speech & actions what’s in their heart, how twisted they are , what they cultivate & practice. These are human problems, conditioned, unskillfulness we all have men & women. I feel these women are tremendously brave-I had no idea they deal with this underhanded ness in the order. It seems very sinister & hidden. A wonderful documentary & all the comments have reflected what the video points out also.
Why do you care about those stupid old rules? Because the nuns sangha died out in India? Who cares? Start a new one. Become free of these useless traditions. Buddha also broke with Brahmanic rules and established a women sangha, which was much more difficult to do at his time, because he was risking his male sangha. But now? If a woman sangha is recognized by any authority or not, who cares? What is going on inside you is important. Don´t waste your time and energy fighting these macho monks. They have blocks in their minds and cannot get rid of them.
Thank you for this wonderful film. “Discrimination…call it by its proper name”. Quite. Perhaps we might reflect on the karmic links to misogyny and violence against women?
The first Buddhist monks in history were Indian, and soon there were also Western Buddhist monks from Greece. They lived in different corners of the Persian Empire long before Alexander the Great, and centuries before the Theravada lineage came to be. So “Westerners” are not late arrivals to Buddhism and, as anybody else involved in this unfortunate issue, have the right to have a say.
Bro. It is the same in Myanmar. It is a technicality problem not legal problem. The monks are arguing how to ordinate the Bikkhuni since the linage died out years ago. Personally, the technicality could be bypassed by ordaining in Mahayana monastery and then practice Theravada methods. Then the bikkhuni can ordain the next generation of Bikkuni.
This is true to a greater degree, though not entirely. But in good conscience, many of us understand that we can't go to Myanmar until the government stops its brutal oppression of the Rohingya.
I think women and men are different. They see one thing a little different. And that's why there should be Monks and Nuns with equal rights in Monastery. They should study Dhamma and should teach Dhamma others. The Sanga done so many good things and should do this one more - Monks and Nuns equally on the Patch.
People shouldn't be disregarded inclusion because they are women, this documentary is great. From my research, Buddhism isn't meant to be centred around sex and the physical things, yet somehow the men in power of those ostracising groups, have made it that way. It's about relinquishing the materialistic life for enlightenment (a non-physical satisfaction), yet there's still criteria for some if not most Buddhist groups that determine a person by their physique.
There are many ways of interpreting your statement. Here are just a few. 1. No 'discrimination' in SL ok fine there is no discrimination, and we are not talking about discrimination. 2. You argument on 'hardship being a Bikkuni' no wonder you are looking at male monks point of view. Yes they are NOT monks but live in super luxury, and male monks demands everything more than before, more government jobs, more in political positions, more free education along with the lay, free housings, free food, free health care, much much more while the poor live in utter despair. Oh do not forget daily protest marches in the City of Colombo lead by monks yes. 3. Yes if you have forgotten hardships are a part of ALL who take yellow robes, male of female. Yes if bikkunis like to follow the true part following the true mandicant tradition LET IT BE while Sri Lankan monks make merry and live in super luxury at the expense of destitute poor. 4. Hence Sri Lankan pure Buddhism has become a laughing stock to the mankind now. I also heard that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka not India and also now there are thousands and thousands of living Buddhas in SL now. Oh I forgot the ownership of temple properties, tamed elephants. and also do not forget amount of Pure Sri Lankan Theravada Buddhist male monks seen around court houses daily basis at any time of the day. If the women are willing to go through the hardships LET IT BE, not your nor male Buddhist monks business.
1) The Buddha ordained bhikkunis. Bhikkunis became arahats. Are these 'conservative' monks going to counter that? For us who are outside of their culture, the cultural baggage is very obvious. Does 'Thai tradition' override the Buddha? In Sri Lanka, monks are grouped by their caste - what do you make of that? 2) Tradition is not even an argument. Even these western monk's ordinations went against tradition and were at first met with suspicion. With Jayasaro's logic, he should be in question because he's white. 3) Men are allowed their maximum potential while women can only be novices? Does renouncing have a gender? 4) Just because some women in Thailand are fine with their subjugation doesn't make it less of a subjugation: they're being complacent with a male-directed system. The fact that Thai women go elsewhere (e.g. Sri Lanka) for ordination means they are not ok with the system. The fact that bhikkhuni ordinations exist in Sri Lanka (a Theravada country) puts into question the Thai system (another Theravada country). 5) Jayasaro said that the movement is negligible because it comes from the West, and he would consider it if Thai women raised their voices. Does voicing out needs and concerns require an ethnicity/nationality? Do Thai voices override Western voices? And isn't that racist? Does Buddhism have an ethnicity/nationality? 6) Winning by numbers. Bhikkhuni centres are increasing and eventually sexism will be a bad dream, a bygone memory. 7) Have metta for all beings. What we find offensive in others is what they have taken with raga, dvesha, or moha. Know that we all act with raga, dvesha, and moha. May we cease hurting and harming ourselves and other beings. Let us strive to be free of raga, dvesha, and moha.
Weither coming from negative mindset or those Thom mean well...often tradition via cultural or spiritual rituals; they can both aid ones in their path or distract them from what really matters. Some need to be reminded what really matters and what Buddha said himself about change.
Quel merveilleux documentaire ! c triste de voir encore la discrimination des femmes dans cette religion qui semble si pacifique. Pas un mot de reproche ces femmes bikkunis sont magnifiques, les dernières images montrent a quel point elles sont respectées et révérées .
There is a book in the German language I highly recommend, called "Der BUDDHA und sein ORDEN" (Verlag Beyerlein & Steinschulte) It contains the story of how, why and under what circumstances Buddha admitted women to become nuns. Anyone interested in Buddhism should be able to read. Please translate or have it translated...! Sincerely,
I see a lack of true love and understanding, exemplified here by the monk Jayasaro's point of view. How disconnected he seems to be with reality, with the struggles and hardships of women dedicated to the practice. In fact it's hard to believe how one can miss the point like that! After so much training!! What happened?? It seems that biased cultural re-conditionning as taken place (and not the good one for that matter). How sadenning :-( May those who hold on to wrong and discriminating view be free from their misunderstanding, may their view open up, and may their heart be filled with true love and compassion
Be very careful, was Buddha's instruction about how to approach this world, very, very, very careful, there is a reason he pointed to that approach, and it is a valuable position to take when we speak about others, especially someone who's trained so long as a monk, if you' don't understand his position, or where its steaming from ,or know whom it is that thoughts of judgement are arising towards, but then voice that judgment openly, that karma can be very heavy, and have very long lasting consequences, both for oneself and others...if as you say you don't understand, how someone with so much training could act from prejudice, rather than virtue(I'm paraphrasing, but that's what i get is implied by your post), if you have faith that cause and effect is a true natural law, and thus if the cause of training in virtue has been undertaken, then there must be an effect resulting from it, the perhaps the best thing to do is begin by extending the benifit of the doubt, ask instead could he be coming from compassion and wisdom? if so in what way? what would cause a virtue based mind to see this as the most compassionate response? .. is there some variable the we may not have been made aware of?....in fact there is.. the video is one sided and didn't tell you the whole story, not even regarding the original birth of a bukkuni order... some research would uncover a lot...... Be well
I'm afraid to say that I think it is you that has missed the point. Ajahn Jayasaro was pointing out that the Thai people are in control of their Sangha and that the Thai people are essentially conservative and guarded about the practice of Buddha-Dhamma in their country. Until such time as there is an impetus from the Thai people, especially Thai women, to insist that women progress beyond the statue of Mae Chee and become Bikkhuni's then it is not up to a tiny minority of recent concerts to the practice from the west that are from privileged educated middle class background to demand that the Thai Sangha change itself. This is cultural imperialism and appropriation.
@@nigelsheppard625Westerners are not recent converts. Many Westerners, Greek to be exact, converted to Buddhism in the Persian Empire 25 centuries ago, long before the Sinhalese and the Thai. In any case, the concept of “Cultural appropriation” does not have any sense from the Buddha’s point of view, as the Dhamma is meant to be universal and available for all sentient beings, regardless of their gender, ethnicity or nationality.
The bhikkuni order must continue its revival in Thailand!! The Buddha allowed for the establishment of the world's first female monastic order for a reason!!
Ven. Tenzin Palmo is quoted with saying: "To raise the status of Tibetan nuns, it is important not only to re-establish the Mulasarvastivada bhikshuni ordination, but also for the new bhikshunis to ignore the eight gurudharmas that have regulated their lower status. These eight, after all, were formulated for the sole purpose of avoiding censure by the lay society. In the modern world, disallowing the re-establishment of the Mulasarvastivada bhikshuni ordination and honoring these eight risk that very censure." Yeeees!!!!!! These 8 rules are such a shame nowadays (And hey, I am a man, who was a therav. monk for a few years 😎)
Buddhisms definition is enlightenment, and if there are people who have said that women shouldnt become Bhikshunis , have not reached that level of meditation and enlightenment to actually move past these mental barriers . But thats okay , these men are also on a path , i do hope that attain the peace that they look for in the future . Also , women if they look even a little deeper inside themselves they find themselves at peace , because all they want is independence in life , they need peace and sustainability, that is all . But all are the same , and everyone will move in their own pace . And we have to stand for ourselves . At the end of the day the truth cant hide for long .
I hope these women Bhikkhuni keep growing and spreading to all Buddhist majority nations as well as in the West. This discrimination is NOT what the Buddha taught and the patriarchy WITHIN the Sangha has the courage to completely break this un-Buddhist practice.
Honestly can't believe this is an issue. The Buddha created a Bikkhuni Sangha, so the precident was already set by the Buddha himself. Sounds like Thailand wants to keep its patriarchal old boy's club, no women allowed. Same with England, which is a shame. Frankly, I don't think the Buddha's teachings are sinking particularly deep with the British abbotts. Somehow they've maintained a hardened heart that evangelically adheres to the letter of the Dhamma rather than the spirit, which is an absolute shame.
As a practicing Buddhist I know woman are equal to men. The Buddha ordained both men and women. Its a pity the Tibetan group have moved away from the original teaching. The Dali Lama agrees.
Forget means not understand or not knowing, forget it self is thought , but Buddha is always thought free, he is not deepened on thought to understand meaning of anything
Lord Buddha declared a disciplinary code that to ordain a monk or nun, an already ordained one should be there. Ordination MUST go from generation to generation. But why Buddha declared such rule? Because the cannon was kept as an oral tradition back then and was taken down from generation to generation. If at one time there was no monks or nuns means there was no Dhamma or vinaya. So Lord Buddhas surmise was correct and fair to that time. But now? Now the cannon is taken down to script. So even if the lineages of monks or nuns die out it can still be revived for the Dhamma and Vinaya is still there. But back in those days the absence of the Sangha explicitly meant that both the Dhamma and Vinaya was absent too. So how can you ordain? But not anymore.
That is in the Theravadan heartland! Let it be. But outside of that, I see no reason not to support and restore the bhikkuni order outside of the Theravadan heartland. Look at the good results - well learnt and well praticed bhikkhunis like Ajahn Vayama, Ven Hassapana, Ayya Upekkha etc.
Honestly, as a fledgling Buddhist, I'm incredibly curious about what can be applied as to gender fluidity. If we are not our bodies, and there is feminine and masculine energy, couldn't there be Bhikkus born into bodies gender assigned as female and vice versa? Wouldn't Buddha have been able to see the fluidity of these attachments to male and female?
Sadhu sadhu sadhu. I believe that if the women can practice the code of The Bhikkhunī Pāṭimokkha contains 311 rules (www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/sv/bhikkhuni-pati.html) and who we are to judge. sadhu sadhu sadhu ...Sangham saranam gacchami
I see no reason why a Bhuddhist nun should be denied ordaining to Bhikkhuni as long as the 311 precepts and the procedures are followed per the Tripitaka. Laywomen or layman can practice according to the Bhuddha and achieve enlightenment to Sotapattimaka (Stream Entry), Sakadagami (second stage) without being ordained.
It took the Buddha some time to agree to Bhikkuni ordination and he was persuaded by his aunt and foster mother Mahaprajapati but I believe Some of the extra Bhikkuni vows were set up to protect women, especially the young women from the men in the society. The Buddha definitely said that women could become enlightened but because of having a family and commitments it would take them longer. Dharmacharini Vidusi.
Why cling to Theravada school when Mahayana one is so much more advanced in terms of gender equality ? I mean the Western nuns, who live in England for example ? Mahayana monasteries in USA welcome nuns without any issue
Because Theravada Buddhism is based on the Pali Canon, the oldest canonic texts, closest to the original teachings of the historical Buddha. It’s a very different doctrine.
Ajahn Brahm is my hero. Finally a man stands up to this horrible injustice
Yes! Many bows to Ven. Ajahn Brahm.
@bartfart...I also second that
@Monroe Bothwell I hope that she leaves you and finds someone she can trust. Go and learn the Dharma.
Right
63k viewers mean so many women thinking about a change.Good Luck for them
Thank you, Ajahn Brahm, for your commitment to non-discrimination :)
As a commited practitioner, inspired, taught, and healed by the Thai Forest Tradition, (which I hold in the highest regard), all I can say is how upsetting it is to see this form of Theravada Buddhism, which has helped me so much, let itself down and allow itself to appear to be stuck in a cultural hole.
My admiration for Ajahn Brahm has gone through the roof. I applaud him and fully support all that he is doing.
Having said that, the Thai Forest Tradition of Luangpor Chah continues to grow and flourish across the world and I will always respect it.
Change will come I'm sure, in fact change HAS come....
We can't deny 50% of the human race full ordination because of faulty reasoning and discriminatory attitudes.
(In my humble opinion 🙏🙏🙏)
Sean Macleod well said...moral of the story is follow teachings not teachers. Teachers must follow what they themselves teach. Never follow traditions or teachers blindly...Buddhist means of the Buddha which means we refer to what the Buddha taught about certain issues in this case bhikkhuni ordination. Well learnt scholars like Bhikkhu Bodhi Analayo and Ajahn Sujato and of course Ajahn Brahmavamso have proven there is no issues about bhikkhuni ordination (outside of Theravada heartland). Moreover the late Ayya Khema was the first Western nun in Sri Lanka a Theravadan land
@@yongjiean9980
Thank you for your words 😊🙏
Buddhist society of western australia is a wonderfull place. they also put the talks on there youtube channel. and inspire people over the intire world,
May Buddha bless you all, Buddhist monks and nuns, who are sincerely practising Buddhism. Buddhism is about heart and mind.
I am not a monastery nun but practise Buddhism, in compassion and mindfulness, I have found peace and joy in my heart..
I also found out that chanting Buddhist prayers and impart merits helps to bring peace to the home. That is my own experience.
A response that steams from insight, thank you ;-)
I have looked into many religions and in my opinion, Buddhism is the most logical
@@debbieolin8153
You are so right. May Buddha bless you, and wish that you will attain enlightenment, one day.
@@debbieolin8153If it's logical , it's philosophy , not religion.
Let there be bikkuni ordination again and budhism spread far and wide and may peace prevail on earth.Arahant
Maha prajapathi gothami
2nd mother of Lord Buddha started bikkuni ordination.. Let it continue again! With
Love from Sri lanka
From Australia , Vietnamese Buddhist!! Touching my heart, I just want to know, too!! Why don’t let them do it, nun or monk is only the covers of outside, we the same !! Please let the nun have it the same as monk!! We are equally front of THE BUDDHA!!!!
Buddhism is open and does not encourage divides. Even the Buddha said that a person must seek his or her own salvation. So let those who seek enlightenment have the freedom to practice as they wish. Those who discriminate are to me the ones who need to rethink their attitudes towards bikkhunis. Power and control are at play here. And that is worrisome
@URHO KEKKONEN Dear Sir, namaste and much Metta :-)
You are right, understand the principle of Bhuddhism
Sky Watcher but the vinaya set up by the Buddha DID discriminate against women!
@@robbiepeterh explain!
@@robbiepeterh u r so delusional.... Actually from the beginning the monks didn't have vinaya(code of conduct) but when some monks started doing wrong little by little the buddha started put vinaya for both monks & nuns , he put them after some deed was done to protect them & their path towards enlightment & to make sure they don't do them again.... The buddha is the most perfect there's no one who can be compared to the buddha....
The Buddha taught men and women equal, no self. Therefore you either follow Buddha's teachings or you don't. You do not pick and choose you remain mindful. Blessings
All Humans have Buddha Nature !!!!!
Tommy Reyes Thank you, Blessings!
hahahah...that's awesome!!!...you eaither do you you don't, you don't pick and choose,....lol, except regarding the code of discipline he gave right... ? lol...ahhh that's rich...nice;-)
Featherstone
Namo Buddhaya
Buddha taught equality . Both men and women can be ordained
Bless you sisters I’m one hundred percent behind you the best wisdom I got from Buddhist nuns xx
"But Buddha gave the basic rights equally to both sangha groups. There is no point in discussing whether or not to revive the bhikshuni ordination; the question is merely how to do so properly within the context of the Vinaya."
His Holiness the Dalai-Lama (see wiki page on bhikkhunis
Sad, when I see this clip title. Actually, Buddha was the first person who accepted/introduced the gender equality, and women became nun. That was in over 2600years ago, against the cultural at that time, and highlighted the part of meaningful life or human being.
Beautiful documentary Thank you. If Buddha conformed to tradition, we don't have Buddha or Buddhism. So it is against Buddha's teaçhings. Wow, Bravo to Ajahn Brahm, who's the modern day Buddha, doing the right thing unbound by tradition! .
I also feel good to start this vikkhuni sasana in Nepal n other places worldwide. Wishing all the best for all vikkhunis who have been working for this.
The social situations during Buddha’s era was full of defilements and discriminatory and Buddha purified the world and made sure women too got the opportunity to meditate. It’s sad that today women are discriminated in many places of monastics. I really respect and love those people who work tirelessly for the upliftment of women. May all beings be happy.
Fascinating and somewhat disturbing to see such discrimination which I never thought would be present in such a blatant and controlling way. Excellent video.
All Humans have Buddha Nature !!!!!
It's totally true.
Not in the Theravada tradition
@@thetruthseeker5448 This is correct, but doctrinal differences aside, the jist is this: enlightenment is for everyone, not just men.
1. As far as I have learned :- No where in the Buddhist dhamma, any mention of disparity between the 2 sexes.
2. This is supported by the tenet of Non Self-there IS no disparity between the sexes.
3.There is no discrimation or unjust in Buddhism. It is the human factor that creates this.
4. Conclusion, you don't need another outside agency to legalized your practise of Buddhism. It is already given by Buddha himself. You should not shackle yourself by seeking such recognition. You should just stay the course and practise the Dhamma.
5. if you can do all these, then you realised (whether you are a laity, man, woman, devas or sentient beings) then this recognition is superfluous - it is already there. You can say it is Buddhism given right-nobody can take away from you.
6. Walk and practise the path without placing all these constraints upon yourself. Enlightenment is like hunger, no one can cause it nor eat on your behalf to resolve it.
a good response, recognition is a worldly dharma, and attachment to it must be renounced in order to achieve the freedom that Buddha's dispensation actually leads to and without which has not real value or point, Buddhism is special because it goes beyond the world....well put...keep practicing...
This isn't about recognition. You can be ordained. Women should have that equal opportunity. Period.
Thank you very much
@@Yibambe. Lol, no
I like 7 steps of The Buddha walk in his born. From Nepal. "Never give up' never give up."
Exactly why i talk a lot about a Buddhist renaissance. It is very culture influenced which is nice: in that place. We should not fight against anything but the natural flow will ultimately re-create the Bhikunni order, and justly so.
The beauty of these Heart Followers inspires us to continue to pave paths led by the Heart. Blessings, Namasté
Thai Sangha Institution is currently under great reform due to countless scandals. Sadly, many monks holding these "ranks" lack a progressive education therefore I do not expect any forward movement on this issue. Please take heart. If you study Buddhism you will also realize that aside from Bhikkhunis lay people are also encouraged to practice--there is no divide. The Buddha was not opposed to family which he said is the source of happiness. Thai people support good Bhikkunis and practitioners who are earnest in their practice and worthy of respect and support.
No one can stop anyone from practicing the Buddha’s teaching, it’s about cultivating the knowledge , integrating into our way of life and continue unrelentingly throughout our lives. If our purpose is to exit the circle of birth and death we must not let the standards of material world hold us back; it’s not part of our real self and to be let go anyway. Concentrating on learning, understanding and practice in every day life. The Buddha’s teaching is for everyone without discrimination; have true faith in the Buddha, Dharma and Sunkha, understanding the Four Arriyasaj, walk the Eight Fold Path , follow the Buddha we can achieve the highest goal as well. We must experience the facts and face our real self: no one can grant or do it for us. Best wishes for all.
Thank you soooo much for this lovely documentary.
May u be blessed
Love from France to all of you
I am proud to be a Buddhist...
I suppport you, I support the Sangha, I fully support those that know the Truth, I support those That want to ordain and continue to practice & sharre the Lord Buddhas Teaching. Thank you for your diligence , energy, motivation and practicing the Buddhas teaching in a different time, different countries,under different customs. When practicing they Middle way proper understanding and Equanimity help. Life is fuller when one does not discriminate or differentiate.- may you all abide in Well Being, continue in the way and Be Happy
Beautiful courageous persons! I am so glad to see bhikkhunis. Oh so glad. I would like to have them as teachers! So much more, so much more than the conservative, rigid, power-controling, discriminating men. So much more.
In his days the Buddha was precisely going against conservative attitudes like that! How ironic and unworthy of his efforts.
These nuns have amazing unique qualities. We desperately need them.
From now on I will give whatever support I can to the nuns. And I will only associate with open, wise and good hearted monks, with those who make the sangha as the Buddha intended.
tom wool thank you that's an awesome comment!
I’m a Buddhist and never knew there was gender bias!!!! I thought it was all equal!!!! As a lay man, I’m willing to listen to and follow any monk or nun who practices and teaches the word of Buddha.
Buddhism is awesome to find your happiness
Happiness coming out from the heart.
Happiness not depend on your situation. I have my happiness in the bad situation.
Buddhism show fake happiness. Bcos happiness is leave your children, stay away from your parents. You just run out from disappointed life. The act to deny your problem.
YAHWEH through Jesus Christ the only true God can give you happiness, freedom also in every situation. Bcoz He worked in your spirit not body.
Who walk like bikkhu, Buddha, live in vain.
You become burden to other people. You can't help other people.
As Buddha said he also can't help you. You ownself have to find your way.
But Jesus said, Come to Me. I will give you eternal life. Becoz I'm The Way, The Truth and the Eternal life.
@@@WhoisWhowasWhoistocome Jesus is just an ordinary man who wants to be king and call himself a god. True God is not born and nourished by human. Sidarta Gautama is the best man who never claimed to be a god , despite a prince he did not want to be a king .Buddha is a proper teaching to follow💯%.
Dear@@angelkhoo128
Sidharta is exactly irresponsible man. He left his family, his wife and son. He doesnt know his future. If he knew his future, he hadnot to marry then to left her behind.
Its mean, before he become a Buddha he just an ordinary human like you and me, of course with sin, lust of flesh, lust of eye.
Like the man today who left his family, and tommorow will known as the best man for blind woman in other country.
Jesus is blameless, no sin, the Light of the world. Bible wrote it.
He is exactly not human like Buddha.
In generation by generation all the Israel prophets wrote about His coming.
Jesus said, before Abraham was born, I AM!
Abraham born 2018 BC.
Who do you think He is?
Where is Buddha now???
Can he help you?
Can you meet your 100% best man?
Jesus alive. And He still help us His people all over the world.
I have experienced walk with Him everyday.
You also can ask Him, if you want to meet Him. You just need humble yourself.
John 1:9-11 The True Light (JESUS) that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
HE was in the world, and though the world was made through HIM, the world did not recognize HIM .
HE came to that which was HIS own, but his own did not receive HIM .
@Juliana Mei Do you think a hero would rather have fun living in the palace with his family? but because he felt responsible for the suffering of the people he saw when he first left the palace, he was so sad to see the pain of pain and death that he had to sacrifice his life in a happy way to get answers. the Buddha's rays are incredible. he worked hard to find the knowledge to teach his students. he was a great teacher of science and mathematics who was very logic and real without magic, he taught medical science instead of magic teaching the vast knowledge that encompasses all the elements and energies of the earth and sky. only a narrow-minded person who saw the Buddha leave his wife and father but never asked what was the mission of leaving his family? only the Buddha explained the knowledge from the origin of water, atoms and dust to the size of the earth and the vastness of the universe. I am proud to follow Buddhist teachings that have reached billions of planets instead of planet earth. maybe if i judge between jesus and nikola tesla i will give it a 5 star tesla because it is capable of generating electricity that illuminates the world and is very useful for modern life 4 star jesus because it can heal the sick and revive the dead but less useful due to the fact that the sick can only be treated medically.
Juliana it is true that the Buddha never claimed to be God or a prophet, but what was interesting about the birth of Buddha? he was born of a father and mother with a very clear status as a result of the marriage of a king and empress, he was born and continues to be able to walk; that's the difference between the Buddha, me and you.
I've been to Thailand many times and I've met many monks and mae chee. And I can honestly say that I get more inspiration from the mae chee I've met and there is one major reason for this.
All Buddhists know that the Buddha labelled the 'world' as having 3 'marks' : suffering, impermanence and no-self.
Whilst there are many in the world showing a very strong sense of 'self', many many of the mae chee I've met show no sign of this at all. They quietly, humbly and unobtrusively get on with whatever is required in the moment. They smile compassionately and 'wai' respectively to everyone. They demonstrate to me what it is like to REALLY 'let go'.
I'm happy that there are many people in the world willing to support the ordination of women, allowing them the same conditions the men enjoy.
But I hope the ones that do are able to separate themselves from what is 'right' and 'indiscriminate' and let the 'great powers' that make the rules continue with their lives, but take care to let go of their own.
It's easier to let go and accept the things as they are when one, self or no-self do not know any better or is not allowed, or when one is entitled some privileges and rights only exclusively by his gender.
There is a Buddhist monastery about 10 minutes away from where I live. I am really interested in going on a retreat there once the pandemic is over.
It is a disgrace how these women have been treated by an archaic and patriarchal system that is not even following the Buddha's direction. Rather than want to be accepted by it or be a part of it women can realise there true nature independently of these pompous, autocratic males who are nowhere near even spiritually awake, let alone enlightened. Spiritual Awakening and Enlightenment is waking up out of these kinds narrow and oppressive views to realise the true Self as Buddha Nature is the same for all irrespective of gender or any other appearance of form. It is blatant sexism and obvious discrimination in another male dominated and patriarchal religion.
@Yoswin Freeman the men can ordain them. Your logic is flawed. If what you say is right, then the nuns will never get full ordination. They explain in the video.
In Bhutan, they had similar issue, and they overcame it with help from high lamas and the king and queen. Because they had the will to change. You are just making excuses for your blatant sexism.
@Yoswin Freeman what if the male monk lineage died out, but the female lineage was still intact, then there was a big change, and men wanted ordination. Would you tell them, "tough luck"? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! This is nothing but pride. Ugly, deadly pride and has nothing to do with being a Buddhist.
And please site your sources claiming Vajrayana says women body is inferior. You "don't want to waste your time " with me because you got nothing. Nada.
Welcome to Thailand...C rules
@Yoswin Freeman May I add: when all are equal, ordination should not be decided through gender, but through truth of spirit mind and heart.
Whoever is called and pursues the path needs community support to bring out greater strengths inwardly to assist in helping this whole planet in faith and trust in the essential goodness in people. I hope this statement of faith will encourage lovingkindness and compassion.
Thank you so much 🙏
I'm only been digging Theravada Budhism for three years almost from scratch, but this question about discrimination has been troubling me a lot. Ajahm Brahm did what just had to be done, knowing that he was going to be severely punished by many of his peers, and for that, certainly he do not want to be that, but he is a true Hero.
The explanation that thai nuns and lay women are ok with how the things are, and they do not want to change it, is a perfect example of the so called Stocholm Syndrome, a millenary example
I'm totally disappointed, during Buddha time even a prostitute, had the same right to ordained, why in this modern days highest ranked Terevada monks, set such an unfair rules and regulations! This is out of Buddha shakyamuni Buddha genuine teaching!
Corruption obviously
It’s a mirror image of Thai culture;
it’s patriarchal. ✌️
Her name was Ananda
Fantastic movie! Thank you! It is hard to believe that even Buddhism can be so unjust and discriminating. What is there a woman couldn't do, that a man can?
Curious Diva in Buddhism there is no discrimination , woman can attain enlightenment, Buddha himself said so
Did you watch carefully? The problem was due to the lineage being broken in Theravada sect. In Mahayana however, women are still being ordained as the lineage is still there.
Modern Mahayana Buddhism monks and nuns take same vows and precepts. Enlightenment is the birth right of all living beings ❤️
Rich Brook - sadly not all lineages accept women as equal to men. Even Dalai Lama was mumbling something unclear in defence why nuns aren't treated equal. It is the way it is....
Curious Diva It is more than and beyond gender issue. It says in Vajrayana that men have all the hundred elements (don’t know the correct word) of both peaceful & wrathful deities in them due to their previous lives’ KARMA and merits or virtue whatever you name it, but women have only half of them also due to their previous KARMA and how much merits they did in their previous lives. You can say it’s like two vessels, one can hold more and the other less. It says in one of Buddha’s sutra that when Ananda, Buddha’s main disciple was requested by some women including Buddha’s aunt to become nun and when he told Buddha about what they were requesting Buddha was not willing to give permission at first, after Ananda made many request finally Buddha gave permission. With that Buddha also warned them that Dharma will live 500 years less than its actual live due to that. So ordination of women might not be suitable for the survival of Buddha Dharma or teachings, I assume 🤔. There must be some reason when Enlightened One had said those things. Think about why all the past and present Buddhas were all male and all the future Buddhas would also be male.
The light of peace, freedom, wisdom, and enlightenment is still burning for mankind
What a shock these 5 rules made up in Amaravati (England) after the counsil in 2007... But I hope (for all) that they will come out of such dark point of view (if they haven't changed already).
As a practising Buddhist, I think that women should not look down on men, even though men have only got one X-Chromosome, and women have two. And all abilities like f.e. intelligence are located on the X-Chromosome. Having said this, I advise Thai sisters to live their rights. Not ask men for permission. If Thai men are discrimitating nuns, may the Buddha enlighten the men and let us all pray for the men's wisdom. As obviously they need it.
Lol good comment
Buddha taught equality. Stop this discrimination
Now that i saw this documentary all my admiration on the Buddhism die out.
When we see obstacles created to hinder a fight that should never have existed, much less nowadays, and played at the backstage like that of politicians, it makes me think that perhaps what is being preached wasn't so much a way of be and live , or the old teachings have already been distorted and coated with hypocrisy!
All creatures are the same as us, but in our own species we are different by gender!
Conscience and awereness is what is missing to some.
A little more effort maybe to achieve it!
My sincere thanks to the nuns for everything and my support in their quest !
For me, all of you Nuns are more valuable and more integrated in the principles than those who deny you something that in itself should be natural and in accordance with the principles.
This was Disheartening to see how pervasive sexism & patriarchy are even in such a noble path. You can hear the good heart in Ajahn Brahm -this is all of our potential. To see with wisdom & compassion, without discrimination. He’s not threatened, what is there to be threatened by? You can hear how threatening women are to those in power & attached & clinging to their views in their favor/to dominate others. Buddha teaches us not to do what these men are feeding in themselves.
Makes me want out even more, it never ends.
Well said Marco. I didn’t realize this was behind the scenes while we’re taught metta to all beings freedom, 5 precepts, Buddha’s teachings seem to be lip service to some. So sad even the Dali llama caved in to peer pressure.It seems clear this benefits the men. Clearly not all men have this poison in their hearts. Like politics too-you find out through speech & actions what’s in their heart, how twisted they are , what they cultivate & practice. These are human problems, conditioned, unskillfulness we all have men & women. I feel these women are tremendously brave-I had no idea they deal with this underhanded ness in the order. It seems very sinister & hidden. A wonderful documentary & all the comments have reflected what the video points out also.
@@SA-ww1ge The conference when Dalia Lama said that was in 2007. This has since changed.
My eyes are fortunate to see these..Best wishes for the world from Sri Lanka..!
Why do you care about those stupid old rules? Because the nuns sangha died out in India? Who cares? Start a new one. Become free of these useless traditions. Buddha also broke with Brahmanic rules and established a women sangha, which was much more difficult to do at his time, because he was risking his male sangha. But now? If a woman sangha is recognized by any authority or not, who cares? What is going on inside you is important. Don´t waste your time and energy fighting these macho monks. They have blocks in their minds and cannot get rid of them.
Thank you for this wonderful film. “Discrimination…call it by its proper name”. Quite. Perhaps we might reflect on the karmic links to misogyny and violence against women?
Buddhism good for people
Thanks for a wonderful film! Love the Mongolian throat singing at the end.
Come to Sri Lanka! The Bhikkuni tradition is live and well there
The first Buddhist monks in history were Indian, and soon there were also Western Buddhist monks from Greece. They lived in different corners of the Persian Empire long before Alexander the Great, and centuries before the Theravada lineage came to be. So “Westerners” are not late arrivals to Buddhism and, as anybody else involved in this unfortunate issue, have the right to have a say.
Very Buddhist should visit where Buddha spend 29 years childhood.
That's just Thailand's local social tension. Come to Myanmar to bypass that. You are welcome.
Bro. It is the same in Myanmar. It is a technicality problem not legal problem. The monks are arguing how to ordinate the Bikkhuni since the linage died out years ago.
Personally, the technicality could be bypassed by ordaining in Mahayana monastery and then practice Theravada methods. Then the bikkhuni can ordain the next generation of Bikkuni.
This is true to a greater degree, though not entirely. But in good conscience, many of us understand that we can't go to Myanmar until the government stops its brutal oppression of the Rohingya.
@@waiphyohain
You can get the ordination in Sri-Lanka.
I think it’s possible in Burma as well, isn’t it?
Wow thnx upload this video .🙏🙏🙏 from 🇱🇰 sri lanka.
Excellent, and inspiring documentary.
Brilliant! Very informative. Thank you!
I think women and men are different. They see one thing a little different. And that's why there should be Monks and Nuns with equal rights in Monastery. They should study Dhamma and should teach Dhamma others. The Sanga done so many good things and should do this one more - Monks and Nuns equally on the Patch.
15:10 What beautiful words! The dhamma lives.
I'm Bhikkhuni Thulananda very nice.i'm farm India.Nagpur.
From Germany Vijayan
Respekt I am Lord Buddha
Respekt Buddies monstry and Sangamon
People shouldn't be disregarded inclusion because they are women, this documentary is great. From my research, Buddhism isn't meant to be centred around sex and the physical things, yet somehow the men in power of those ostracising groups, have made it that way. It's about relinquishing the materialistic life for enlightenment (a non-physical satisfaction), yet there's still criteria for some if not most Buddhist groups that determine a person by their physique.
I'm Indian buudhist goad bles you I love buudhijam
Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thank you very much
There is no discrimination in Sri Lanka.. But hardship of course for bikkunis
There are many ways of interpreting your statement. Here are just a few.
1. No 'discrimination' in SL ok fine there is no discrimination, and we are not talking about discrimination.
2. You argument on 'hardship being a Bikkuni' no wonder you are looking at male monks point of view. Yes they are NOT monks but live in super luxury, and male monks demands everything more than before, more government jobs, more in political positions, more free education along with the lay, free housings, free food, free health care, much much more while the poor live in utter despair. Oh do not forget daily protest marches in the City of Colombo lead by monks yes.
3. Yes if you have forgotten hardships are a part of ALL who take yellow robes, male of female. Yes if bikkunis like to follow the true part following the true mandicant tradition LET IT BE while Sri Lankan monks make merry and live in super luxury at the expense of destitute poor.
4. Hence Sri Lankan pure Buddhism has become a laughing stock to the mankind now. I also heard that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka not India and also now there are thousands and thousands of living Buddhas in SL now.
Oh I forgot the ownership of temple properties, tamed elephants. and also do not forget amount of Pure Sri Lankan Theravada Buddhist male monks seen around court houses daily basis at any time of the day. If the women are willing to go through the hardships LET IT BE, not your nor male Buddhist monks business.
Beautiful....
1) The Buddha ordained bhikkunis. Bhikkunis became arahats. Are these 'conservative' monks going to counter that?
For us who are outside of their culture, the cultural baggage is very obvious. Does 'Thai tradition' override the Buddha? In Sri Lanka, monks are grouped by their caste - what do you make of that?
2) Tradition is not even an argument. Even these western monk's ordinations went against tradition and were at first met with suspicion.
With Jayasaro's logic, he should be in question because he's white.
3) Men are allowed their maximum potential while women can only be novices? Does renouncing have a gender?
4) Just because some women in Thailand are fine with their subjugation doesn't make it less of a subjugation: they're being complacent with a male-directed system. The fact that Thai women go elsewhere (e.g. Sri Lanka) for ordination means they are not ok with the system. The fact that bhikkhuni ordinations exist in Sri Lanka (a Theravada country) puts into question the Thai system (another Theravada country).
5) Jayasaro said that the movement is negligible because it comes from the West, and he would consider it if Thai women raised their voices. Does voicing out needs and concerns require an ethnicity/nationality? Do Thai voices override Western voices? And isn't that racist? Does Buddhism have an ethnicity/nationality?
6) Winning by numbers. Bhikkhuni centres are increasing and eventually sexism will be a bad dream, a bygone memory.
7) Have metta for all beings. What we find offensive in others is what they have taken with raga, dvesha, or moha. Know that we all act with raga, dvesha, and moha. May we cease hurting and harming ourselves and other beings. Let us strive to be free of raga, dvesha, and moha.
Weither coming from negative mindset or those Thom mean well...often tradition via cultural or spiritual rituals; they can both aid ones in their path or distract them from what really matters. Some need to be reminded what really matters and what Buddha said himself about change.
Quel merveilleux documentaire ! c triste de voir encore la discrimination des femmes dans cette religion qui semble si pacifique. Pas un mot de reproche ces femmes bikkunis sont magnifiques, les dernières images montrent a quel point elles sont respectées et révérées .
welcome ! Go ahead. sadhu sadhu sadhu....
ความทุกข์ เกิดขึ้นกับทุกคน สุขอื่นใดหาความสงบไม่มี มนุษย์ต้องหาทางออกจากทุกข์ เกิดแก่เจ็บตาย
Lord have mercy.
There is a book in the German language I highly recommend, called "Der BUDDHA und sein ORDEN" (Verlag Beyerlein & Steinschulte) It contains the story of how, why and under what circumstances Buddha admitted women to become nuns. Anyone interested in Buddhism should be able to read. Please translate or have it translated...! Sincerely,
I see a lack of true love and understanding, exemplified here by the monk Jayasaro's point of view. How disconnected he seems to be with reality, with the struggles and hardships of women dedicated to the practice.
In fact it's hard to believe how one can miss the point like that! After so much training!! What happened??
It seems that biased cultural re-conditionning as taken place (and not the good one for that matter). How sadenning :-(
May those who hold on to wrong and discriminating view be free from their misunderstanding, may their view open up, and may their heart be filled with true love and compassion
Be very careful, was Buddha's instruction about how to approach this world, very, very, very careful, there is a reason he pointed to that approach, and it is a valuable position to take when we speak about others, especially someone who's trained so long as a monk, if you' don't understand his position, or where its steaming from ,or know whom it is that thoughts of judgement are arising towards, but then voice that judgment openly, that karma can be very heavy, and have very long lasting consequences, both for oneself and others...if as you say you don't understand, how someone with so much training could act from prejudice, rather than virtue(I'm paraphrasing, but that's what i get is implied by your post), if you have faith that cause and effect is a true natural law, and thus if the cause of training in virtue has been undertaken, then there must be an effect resulting from it, the perhaps the best thing to do is begin by extending the benifit of the doubt, ask instead could he be coming from compassion and wisdom? if so in what way? what would cause a virtue based mind to see this as the most compassionate response? .. is there some variable the we may not have been made aware of?....in fact there is.. the video is one sided and didn't tell you the whole story, not even regarding the original birth of a bukkuni order... some research would uncover a lot......
Be well
I'm afraid to say that I think it is you that has missed the point. Ajahn Jayasaro was pointing out that the Thai people are in control of their Sangha and that the Thai people are essentially conservative and guarded about the practice of Buddha-Dhamma in their country. Until such time as there is an impetus from the Thai people, especially Thai women, to insist that women progress beyond the statue of Mae Chee and become Bikkhuni's then it is not up to a tiny minority of recent concerts to the practice from the west that are from privileged educated middle class background to demand that the Thai Sangha change itself. This is cultural imperialism and appropriation.
@@nigelsheppard625Westerners are not recent converts. Many Westerners, Greek to be exact, converted to Buddhism in the Persian Empire 25 centuries ago, long before the Sinhalese and the Thai. In any case, the concept of “Cultural appropriation” does not have any sense from the Buddha’s point of view, as the Dhamma is meant to be universal and available for all sentient beings, regardless of their gender, ethnicity or nationality.
The bhikkuni order must continue its revival in Thailand!! The Buddha allowed for the establishment of the world's first female monastic order for a reason!!
I'm Buddhist from Bangladesh.
Is Bangladesh safe for Buddhist ??
@@wojak5308 searching this video from TH-cam
1. Buddhish temple destroyed in Bangladesh
@@atushimarma6711 yaah I already seen that video , that's why I asked you about safety .
@@wojak5308yeah. Roughly safe.
@@wojak5308 are you buddhish? Where you are from?
Ven. Tenzin Palmo is quoted with saying: "To raise the status of Tibetan nuns, it is important not only to re-establish the Mulasarvastivada bhikshuni ordination, but also for the new bhikshunis to ignore the eight gurudharmas that have regulated their lower status. These eight, after all, were formulated for the sole purpose of avoiding censure by the lay society. In the modern world, disallowing the re-establishment of the Mulasarvastivada bhikshuni ordination and honoring these eight risk that very censure." Yeeees!!!!!! These 8 rules are such a shame nowadays (And hey, I am a man, who was a therav. monk for a few years 😎)
If the nuns are truly committed to their cause, they can set up their own communities and gain support from the people.
Buddhisms definition is enlightenment, and if there are people who have said that women shouldnt become Bhikshunis , have not reached that level of meditation and enlightenment to actually move past these mental barriers . But thats okay , these men are also on a path , i do hope that attain the peace that they look for in the future .
Also , women if they look even a little deeper inside themselves they find themselves at peace , because all they want is independence in life , they need peace and sustainability, that is all .
But all are the same , and everyone will move in their own pace . And we have to stand for ourselves . At the end of the day the truth cant hide for long .
Sahdu Sahdu Sahdu 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Listen to the nun. 26:12. The mind (citta) is what must be cultivated.
I hope these women Bhikkhuni keep growing and spreading to all Buddhist majority nations as well as in the West. This discrimination is NOT what the Buddha taught and the patriarchy WITHIN the Sangha has the courage to completely break this un-Buddhist practice.
Honestly can't believe this is an issue. The Buddha created a Bikkhuni Sangha, so the precident was already set by the Buddha himself. Sounds like Thailand wants to keep its patriarchal old boy's club, no women allowed. Same with England, which is a shame. Frankly, I don't think the Buddha's teachings are sinking particularly deep with the British abbotts. Somehow they've maintained a hardened heart that evangelically adheres to the letter of the Dhamma rather than the spirit, which is an absolute shame.
As a practicing Buddhist I know woman are equal to men. The Buddha ordained both men and women. Its a pity the Tibetan group have moved away from the original teaching. The Dali Lama agrees.
I'm Bhuddist
I'm agree to have Bhikkunis
Crikey, they'll be wanting to vote next!
This is Theravada practice in Thailand. Shows cultural overlay. The Buddha did ordain nuns. In Mahayana and Vajrayana there are nuns.
Forget means not understand or not knowing, forget it self is thought , but Buddha is always thought free, he is not deepened on thought to understand meaning of anything
Very good movement.
Wonderful .
This is politics not spirituality.
Lord Buddha declared a disciplinary code that to ordain a monk or nun, an already ordained one should be there. Ordination MUST go from generation to generation. But why Buddha declared such rule? Because the cannon was kept as an oral tradition back then and was taken down from generation to generation. If at one time there was no monks or nuns means there was no Dhamma or vinaya. So Lord Buddhas surmise was correct and fair to that time. But now? Now the cannon is taken down to script. So even if the lineages of monks or nuns die out it can still be revived for the Dhamma and Vinaya is still there. But back in those days the absence of the Sangha explicitly meant that both the Dhamma and Vinaya was absent too. So how can you ordain? But not anymore.
Namo Buddhaya.. 😥🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
24:53 I agree with Ajarn Jayasaro's opinion, it should come from the heartland of theravada buddhism countries as well for the change.
That is in the Theravadan heartland! Let it be. But outside of that, I see no reason not to support and restore the bhikkuni order outside of the Theravadan heartland. Look at the good results - well learnt and well praticed bhikkhunis like Ajahn Vayama, Ven Hassapana, Ayya Upekkha etc.
A mind is reborn in all forms and shapes and genders. That means each monk in that monastry has been a woman or will be reborn as a woman.
Honestly, as a fledgling Buddhist, I'm incredibly curious about what can be applied as to gender fluidity. If we are not our bodies, and there is feminine and masculine energy, couldn't there be Bhikkus born into bodies gender assigned as female and vice versa? Wouldn't Buddha have been able to see the fluidity of these attachments to male and female?
Sadhu sadhu sadhu. I believe that if the women can practice the code of The Bhikkhunī Pāṭimokkha contains 311 rules (www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/sv/bhikkhuni-pati.html) and who we are to judge. sadhu sadhu sadhu ...Sangham saranam gacchami
🙏🏻
wow
Buddhisem
Buddha
kul
super
Loven
🙂
🧘🏻♀️
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I see no reason why a Bhuddhist nun should be denied ordaining to Bhikkhuni as long as the 311 precepts and the procedures are followed per the Tripitaka. Laywomen or layman can practice according to the Bhuddha and achieve enlightenment to Sotapattimaka (Stream Entry), Sakadagami (second stage) without being ordained.
It took the Buddha some time to agree to Bhikkuni ordination and he was persuaded by his aunt and foster mother Mahaprajapati but I believe Some of the extra Bhikkuni vows were set up to protect women, especially the young women from the men in the society. The Buddha definitely said that women could become enlightened but because of having a family and commitments it would take them longer. Dharmacharini Vidusi.
Bless You
Why cling to Theravada school when Mahayana one is so much more advanced in terms of gender equality ? I mean the Western nuns, who live in England for example ? Mahayana monasteries in USA welcome nuns without any issue
Because Theravada Buddhism is based on the Pali Canon, the oldest canonic texts, closest to the original teachings of the historical Buddha. It’s a very different doctrine.