@@kalebmitchell6201 oh they botched it bad… if sissified girl men loved it… that tells you how shitty and crying it was for real men.. weak males like you have a idea of what tough is.. and then there’s real badass.. this movie was a joke
@@SilasPSilas88don’t know what you wanted, Batman has always been a caring, compassionate character that is rough around the edges. If your interpretation of Batman is just an angry guy who beats the shit out of people in the name of ‘justice’ but isn’t the type to do things like comfort a crying child or be able to actually relate and understand his villains on some sort of emotional level, you don’t want Batman, you want the Punisher.
I would argue that Bruce Wayne isn't even in this movie. It's Batman the entire time even when he's not wearing the mask. I'm sure he'll adopt the Bruce Wayne "persona" in the next movie. This is just the beginning of his character journey.
Exactly, people miss the point when they mention Bruce Wayne barely being in the movie, that’s the whole point at this moment of him being Batman he is truly himself while being Batman not being Bruce
Well according to another TH-cam comment the director did it intentionally for that reason. Apparently we are to see how Bruce Wayne is before he adopted the Bruce Wayne persona we all know.
Personally, I think that the lack of a distinction between Bruce Wayne and Batman is kind of the point. Bruce spends a lot of the movie so obsessed with Batman that he’s forgotten how to be Bruce Wayne.
it was year 2 of him being Batman. This is not 38 year old Bruce who knows what he is doing. The film clear shows he just started out when he fails to glide in the air and obviously the lack of equipment we know him to have
I get your standpoint but I cant help but disagree. It makes sense from the standpoint that he just started, but balancing batman and Bruce Wayne has always been a massive part of the comics
It’s also basically the point of Alfred’s lectures towards him. It would be one thing if the movie didn’t address it, but I feel like they did a great job in showing us
From my viewing of the film, I got the impression that instead of being motivated by Vengeance to fight crime, he now does it not for himself, but for the people around him. Turning form a person to be feared into a person who can inspire others. A beacon of hope. It's why the assault victim on the subway tells Batman not to hurt him.
You can agree or disagree with this man's politics but it warms my heart to know we can all come together to say he did a terrible job reviewing this movie lol
I feel like people are assigning a lot more depth and worth to this film than it deserves. It was three hours. I felt fairly hollow in terms of getting what I wanted from these films having spent THREE HOURS in a theater.
I think all of us apart from Ben understood that the ending was not about Batman not fighting crime, it was about continuing to fight crime for a different reason. To fight crime not as a horrifying monster to all, but as a beacon of hope for Gotham.
He never said that the movie was about Batman not fighting crime. He's speaking about the message as it's written to relate to irl. Batman in this movie is simply the idol for that message, representing the opposite of the marxist vision. To quote myself: "The fact that Ben's audience is too dumb to get the point of the movie is legitimately suprising me. So many folks are somehow missing the fact that Ben is talking about the marxist message that's being pushed, as it relates to irl, not about whether or not they're gonna make Batman stop being Batman. Batman in this movie is simply idol of the anti-marxist position. Both he and his dad (his dad usually being represented as a good guy who did a lot of philanthropy) are turned into evil cis white men billionare caricatures and then Batman's approach to crime is a caricature of the conservative view of dealing with crime. More importantly, this isn't the first time that this message has been pushed. I forget the name of the comic, maybe it was Batman: Black and White or something like that (I remember it being an anthology, essentially, that was drawn in black and white), but there was a comic written not too long in black and white where one of the stories was that Bruce could do more good with his money than as Batman. Batman was drawn as a useless zombie in many situations, but in those same situations Bruce was drawn as a vibrant living man whose money could solve the problems. That's the same thing that's going on in this film. It's like a specifically anti-Nolan version of Batman, but in general it's acting (as Ben said, hating) Batman as a character, in general. Even Nolan's version was doing this, but it still respected the character."
@@roughcutretrospect7235 Perhaps that's the point the movie is trying to make. Batman SHOULD care more about saving people than catching criminals, but throughout the movie that is clearly not the case, until the end when Bruce realizes that Batman has to be something more. He has to be the man who cares as much as the man who scares. I'm reminded of the Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue" which makes the really compelling case that what makes Batman a hero isn't his money or gadgets or intimidation, but his compassion.
You honestly could not be more incorrect about the purpose of the film. The director does not hate Batman in any way shape or form, the movie and message behind it was brilliant. Batman went from doing what he was doing out of anger, revenge, and "vengeance" which by the end of the movie was able to grasp that he was sending the wrong message and had no chance to protect Gotham if he stayed the way he was. In no way was he saying that he would not still be fighting, targeting, or beating up criminals, he realized he had to be more intentional with it and focus on helping others not just brutally beating on criminals to ease his personal rage.
Spot on. I think Ben Shapiro just watches Batman movies to live vicarously through. TDK Rises was peak Batman for him in this sense. As far as Riddler's seemingly illogical motive to blow up Gotham? After shining a light on Gotham's injustices, deliberately being captured so he can be protected at Arkham while the city washes away and he can converse with Batman all the while inciting his legion to take over...it's not surprising he wants to get rid of Gotham completely. Self-righteous psychopaths seem to want to take down everyone not a part of their movement (think Timothy McVeigh). The logical intent would be that once Gotham falls into anarchy, he'd be freed by his followers and he and Batman can rule the city. The only thing I don't like about it was Riddler giving Batman hints in the Arkham scene like he's a Bond villain but I will give a slight pass in that psuedo-intellectuals like Riddler/Zodiac killer love being the smartest person in the room and his ego got the best of him. It's not a stretch to think Riddler has some...personality flaws to say the least.
Soooooo Shakespearean, sssssoooooo brilliant. Lol I dnt get why ppl give super hero movies more credit than it’s worth. It just dnt find anything entertaining about any of them. They all suck.
I think Ben actually complimented the movie without knowing. He said there was no Bruce Wayne, there was just Batman. At the end of the movie the Riddler says something similar and points out the fact that trying to find out who Batman was was meaningless because Batman IS his true identity.
Bens point is just that Bruce Wayne is the character and Batman is the true person and changing that so Batman can weirdly figure out that Bruce Wayne needs be more active in Gotham is super weird and a opposite from the comics
@@nickmcmillan2511 this is exactly how I felt during the movie and really my only problem with it! It is a pretty big problem I just say, every other Batman movie “and in comics” Bruce is eccentric and the city loves him and like they say in the movie “the prince of the city” yet he doesn’t act like it at all, he’s a complete awkward loner not flashy at all nor does it seem Wayne enterprise is a very major part of the city at all. The point of Batman “acting” Bruce Wayne is that it’s supposed to seem like he’s so busy being this busy guy essentially running the city how could he possibly be Batman. But it’s like why would everyone be talking about Pattinsons Bruce Wayne when he’s always hiding away, maybe because they know it’s rare to see him which is an odd but sensual take, it’s just not the norm and movie does kind of contradict itself in that sense
I think peoples issue is no dual personas. He is batman all the time. Batman traditionally puts on a Bruce Wayne mask to hide his identity to the public. But I think this version is still too angry to care and just hasn't figured the Bruce Wayne identity out yet. There were clues alluding to it though. The main one being Alfred handing him the cuff links saying, "you still have to learn how to be a Wayne too". So I beleive he will develop that identity in the sequels which im cool with. If he never does, I won't be a fan of that aspect either.
Yeah...disagree here. Batman literally says at the end he has to become "more" than vengeance. Not throw vengeance away altogether - but add to it, so it's not just vengeance for vengeance's sake. To that, I can totally get on board with it. He's still developing and finding himself, and still hasn't mastered the duality of being both Batman/Wayne without one taking over the other completely.
I don't think so the reason why bruce became batman. It was always because he wanted to be a beacon of hope. To prove that there is still good in this world and its worth saving.
I think its about intention. He realized he was doing it for the wrong reason, then he found the right reason. He still beats up the bad guys, but instead of doing it because he hates them, he does it because he loves Gotham.
And how does that explain everyone in Gotham calling him Vengeance? Did the gangbanger kid go to every door and tell them the Bat guy's name is Vengeance? 🤣
The point is that outside of 2 dialogues that were there to technically check off the ideas of that, it didn't show the emotional weight or value to that realization individually.
3:21 how is having three black characters in a movie *wokeness*? I hate woke politics as much as the next guy, but it sounds like you're complaining about the fact that this movie has black people in it.
He means there are no bad black characters and everyone in the city sees all the white characters as bad guys, catwoman hates bruce and they show white polititians as corrupt and bad but the promising black candidate as the hope for the city
@@EdginLegend Commissioner Gordon has had brown hair, blonde hair, and red hair. Back when Darren Aronofsky was called up to direct a Batman movie, he nearly cast Morgan Freeman to play the role. The character's appearance is hardly set in stone. As long as he's a gruff middle-aged man with a mustache and glasses, I don't see why there would be a problem. As for The Cat, she was played by Eartha Kitt as early as the 60s. That said, I didn't think Zoe Kravitz was a good casting choice. She's not a good actress. But her appearance has nothing to do with my qualms about her character. She looks like Selina Kyle, just slightly more tanned than most iterations, and that's not an issue because Selina Kyle is never described as pale. I say this as someone who absolutely hated Zoe's line about "rich white men" almost as much as I hated Disney's decision to cast a black actress as Ariel and a Hispanic actress as Snow White.
@@EdginLegend Okay. And in the earliest Batman comics, Bruce had no qualms about killing or using guns. Superman was closer to a public menace than a proper hero. Green Lantern rings were powered by magic rather than a central power battery. Are you suggesting that new films should bring back those elements? You're acting like narratives don't change and characters don't evolve. Commissioner Gordon's appearance isn't set in stone. As I already mentioned, he has also been blonde, ginger, and brunette before he was black.
It is really impressive how Ben came to the wrong conclusion on basically every single point he's making in this video and even had reasoning behind it that anyone who actually saw the movie could see right through.
Like when he said the Riddler had no reason to bomb Gotham? It was one explained in on sentence that was perfect it was to “Wash away the sins of this city”. Amazing review I love how wrong he is on everything lol
@@klaythompson663 well, i do simp for Robert Pattinson, that's a fact. But i'm just not in the mood to make a gigantic comment explaining my thoughts about the movie when there's so many people in here that disagree with him already
The ending isn't saying Batman shouldn't exist and be a shallow charity man, it's saying that Batman should look after the people he should protect after he brutally beats up their attackers, and not just disappear into the night. He should be MORE THAN VENGEANCE; he should inspire hope. Like every other superhero. This was shown throughout the movie where everyone around him is still scared shitless even after he dislocates every bone in some low life thug's body. But by the end he shows that he gives enough of a shit about Gotham by helping with rescues after he's done with his badass fight scenes.
At that point though when it’s just about helping, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to help with his resources as Bruce Wayne than as just one individual as Batman?
@@Ash-lf6to pretty sure he'll do both in the next movie But, the well is also already poisoned in a sense, gotham is so crime ridden that if he tried to donate anything it would just go to the corrupt politicians
@@Ash-lf6to because he does both. Batman/Bruce Wayne is more than just a violent vigilante. He’s the kindest human in the DC. He’s more human than any other character. It’s unfortunate that that side of him is often lost in media.
Very interesting take! I wonder though, isn't that Batman. The torn up bitter, tortured vigilanty who beats up criminals and makes them afraid to do what they do. He leaves the saved just that, saved because he can't give more than hurt the wrong doers. He's not good with care and compassion. Gotham doesn't need him to, it needs a pitbull not a love giving puppy. And where do they go from there? I think they started well, but are going in a direction to make Batman into Superman.
@happy little trees 239 I disagree. I think it was very in step with Batman as a character, especially considering how early into his career he was. He’s less mature, less balanced in mind, and less calm to his approach. He’s a new Batman, young, full of rage, and less likely to pull a punch. Anyone saying that he’s not in character in this movie must’ve never heard of character growth, especially when in the Batman comics, Batman time and time again shows growth. He isn’t the perfect Batman in every single story, in fact, in many modern Batman stories, even older and largely popular Batman stories, he shows flaws, and the story and events of each comic consist of story beats that help Bruce to develop more as a man and to overcome these flaws. The story of Bruce being more vengeful and angry in the beginning of this movie, and later finding the error of his ways and seeing that rather than being a symbol of fear, he needs to be a symbol of hope, is very in line with Batman as a character. As we’ve seen in many comics before in many different ways. That’s what makes him such a special character, he shows flaws, he makes mistakes, but in the end he always finds a way to better himself or to fix his mistakes, because deep down he’s a good person. Better than many. Anyone who says that this movie wasn’t in line with Batman’s character has a misunderstanding of Batman as a character. The whole argument of “Batman is perfect and does not show flaws” just suggests that the person making the argument has a very shallow understanding of Batman, and has read very little of his material. I’d also like to point out that the movie incorporated Batman’s internal dialogue, as we see and read countless times in his comics. He’s constantly speaking to himself, and it’s often about his current predicament or current internal strife. Just goes to show more so that this movie was supposed to show the growth of Bruce as a person, and of Batman as a symbol of hope. Bruce was not always perfect, and neither was Batman, and some of his best and most famous stories have shown this. Not to mention, in Batman’s most praised live action adaptation, being the dark knight, he shows flaws. He overcomes those flaws, and in the end makes a decision based on the experiences and the events he faces in the story. Now, I agree that the good characteristics of Batman, those being his understanding of right and wrong, and justice and so on, are what makes him Batman. BUT, in saying this, you would also have to acknowledge the fact that in order to reach such a level state of mind, Batman would’ve had to experience growth to get to those values. You can’t just ignore it and say that he was always perfect, because he wasn’t, and he even very often shows that he’s not perfect, thus creating the basis for a lot of Batman’s more emotional storylines out there. I’d also say that they incorporated the riddler perfectly into this emotional growth for Bruce as well. It was a very good Batman story. The writers showed a clear understanding of what makes a Batman story so special, the emotional depth and growth of the character, and how the story would need to tie into that. By the end of the movie he clearly grows into his new shoes as Batman seeing that he needs to be better, and do better. I don’t know what more you can ask for, that’s actually just Batman. All of those values that you said make Batman what he is, he is learning in this movie. He is going through the motions he needs to to become that “perfect Batman” that everyone knows and loves.
@@DeborahChangMD this batman is trash accept it, the whole point of batman is that he is vengeance, he is not superman, he is not supposed to represent hope, that is superman, barman is supposed to be dark, and many other videos habe shown , ben isnt a movie critic but he is right about some things, but watch different reviews that say its bad , you will realize its not judt hate, i liked the movie when i saw it but yes other than music and some action its bad, and yes, bruce is supposed to give charity, the whole point is he tries to help with both his money and justice, this batman just doesnt care, he aint batman
@happy little trees 239 Batman in many of his appearances in comic was a ruthless vigilante who beat up and even murdered criminals. You think there is something okay with someone who dresses as a bat vigilante? And besides, what was there to be done in this movie? The biggest outside corruption Maroni was already apprehended and all was left was petty crimes. Organised corruption was very secret and very lowkey, to the point all officials were involved with it. There was little Batman can do against this. Or even Bruce Wayne, all this goes beyond his field. You missed the entire point of the movie.
@@ericmagana3215 You wrote a whole nonsense essay of a comment and basically said nothing. Batman isn't vengeance. He's justice. You're ignorant. Accept it.
@@tiaaaron3278 the batman is trash, and im not gonna explain why to you, go watch the negative reviews and thr plot holes of the movie for yourself, and then come back and tell me its good, but research first, i day this because i researched and yeah those people have a point to their critiques, thr batman is overrated as fudge
Besides the review did anyone notice that Batman inserted a syringe into himself and gave himself a boost. The “medicine” was green and reminded me of Banes serum
It’s interesting that Ben is basing a lot of his opinion off of the comics when it’s a relatively common storyline that when Batman first started, he wasn’t as empathetic towards anyone. Especially if we look at comic Batman over the past 15 years, his dialogue is pretty spot on with Pattinson’s portrayal, and there have been a lot of self-realization moments, similar to what happened in the movie.
11:14 By that logic, Batman should be perfectly fine killing criminals since they're criminals and he's not. But he doesn't. He has to be different than the man who killed his parents. That's whole the point of the ending. He has to get Gotham hope, not just punishment.
@@RobertDownySeniortrue. That’s kinda the whole point”firefighter” comparison Ben makes. Sure he can be a symbol of hope, but that’s Superman, Batman is supposed to strike fear into ordinary criminals, that’s part of what the bat symbol in the sky is typically for. The Nolan ones are just so much better that I think he couldn’t give this one a fair shake.
I personally thought Bruce’s motivation was very clear and makes this take very unique. He starts as vengeance. He’s taking revenge on criminals because it’s the only way he can cope with the trauma of losing his idolized parents. He learns that they were flawed, and that vengeance doesn’t make him better than villains who take a similar motivation like the riddler. So he starts redirecting this motivation to help others.
I loved the movie but in terms of motivation ONLY, I agree half heartedly with Ben. i understood his motivation BUT the movie never really sells it with any dialogue or visual scenes that show or discuss why he's doing what he's doing. You sorta have to assume "his parents are dead therefore Batman vigilante". The death of his parents motivate him, but he never quite gives any dialogue that explains why he wants to emulate them in any way. Batman begins was a beautiful example of how to show Bruce's parents as real humans not just being shot, they interacted with young bruise and taught him the value of Gotham City.
@@fallen4life080 The shooter at the end literally says “ I am vengeance”, and Batman gives him a clear as day look that he is no bette than him. That’s why he goes down to help everyone, he gradually overtime goes from vengeance to a symbol of hope. At the beginning that man getting jumped was scared of him and at the end the woman couldn’t let go of his hand. He’s changing gradually, that’s why Cat Woman said “You’re already taken for”. It’s not that hard to plot together
@@therealone_20 exactly, I thought it was super obvious why they didn’t need to (yet again) explain who Batman was. But apparently Ben was utterly floored by this
@@Aces-qx9ln Thats not at all what I was talking about, i 100% agree with that. Bruce decides he can be better. What I'm saying is that his motivation to be Batman was only superficially teased and left to us to just already know because we know who Batman is But a movie needs to assume you don't know anything about a character and build them from scratch. Therea really only a few scenes with dialogue or visuals to show that he's making choices based on his parents deaths (vengeance) and leave it to you to hit assume that his parents motivate him. Like I get i, but the movie should sell it. Overall tho this move was A material. Great movie in my.book
If you actually listen to interviews with the Director he talks about how he drew most of his inspiration for this movie from the comics. Year One especially. Just because it isn’t a carbon copy of the previous trilogies doesn’t mean these filmmakers hate Batman….
@@kevinerose If you think “Batman: Earth One” “The Long Halloween” “Batman: Year One” “Batman: Hush” and “Batman: Ego” (all cited as inspiration for Matt Reeves) are all “woke” comics then you’ve most likely never actually touched an actual Batman comic book in your life. identity politics have become such a factor in your life that you’re seeing “wokeness” in places where it doesn’t exist and using it as an easy excuse to dismiss anything that you don’t have any knowledge in.
@@kevinerose Last I checked Batman: Year One (the main comic series the Director based this film off of) came out in 1987. I hate SJW garbage as much as the next person, but unless there were a ton of woke comics back in 80s I don’t know about (the era he says he based most of the movie off of comics wise) then I don’t think he hates Batman as much as Ben Shapiro thinks he does.
Discovering Bruce Wayne is basically his character arch. By the end of the movie he realizes that what Gotham really needs is a figure of hope - and so I imagine in the next movie, he’ll be crafting that Bruce Wayne persona and utilizing his money and status more to help with his agendas. I love the idea of starting here to see an evolution (throughout this movie) and then expanded in eventual sequels. Really don’t understand that complaint at all.
@@akatoshmorgul9367 I mean we’ve already seen that man. Like… 7 times. Kinda cool seeing a different take for once. And there’s plenty of comic runs where Bruce is more recluse and isolated.
@@akatoshmorgul9367 oh great, you mean the same story arc that nolan’s batman went through in his first movie. that’s great, we need to keep rehashing the same concepts because they’re “comic accurate” and it should be the only way the stories are done. This batman’s journey reflects HIS own journey, serving this film’s unique take while also not steering away from what batman fundamentally is. jesus christ you guys are so strange in wanting the same film over and over again
You understood the Batman movie completely. Thank goodness I found your comment, one of the more recent comments on this video, to be spot on and understanding of what the Batman was all about.
I like the idea of him having to find his Bruce Wayne "persona", but it didn't really work in the film for me. He just felt like a brooding edgy teenager. When he talks about how he's "not afraid to die..." as he intensely stares at Alfred through his long black hair over his face with Nirvana playing in the background I felt like rolling my eyes. Loved his Batman, but some of the dialogue/scenes when he's himself as Bruce felt a bit odd and could've been done better imo.
I think Ben missed the point of Batman’s revelation towards the end. The beginning of the movie shows Batman as a reclusive symbol of fear. He even mentions it at the beginning by saying when the bat signal comes out “it’s a warning”. During the first half of the movie, he almost feels a bit like a villain, a silent dark figure that comes out of the shadows engaging in brutal combat with his enemies. Even when he saves that one gentleman from the subway he begs Batman not to hurt him. Up until the asylum scene, the Riddler viewed Batman as a de facto partner. In fact, the Riddler becomes incredibly distraught when he realizes Batman is not on his side. While the Riddler obviously had a deranged perspective, in one of the first scenes, the police accuse Batman of potentially being involved in the mayor’s death so it’s clear this perspective of Batman as a villain was held by others in the city. There’s a similar feel with Bruce Wayne where’s he’s portrayed as this reclusive billionaire that does nothing to help the city even though it’s rapidly declining into chaos. Towards the end, he realizes that the city is deeply distrustful and scared of his Batman persona whereas his Wayne persona is viewed as just another (reclusive) member of the elite. He realizes that as Batman he has to be more than a symbol of fear and as Wayne, he must be more than an eccentric recluse. I imagine in the next movie we’ll see a version of Batman that has a more cooperative relationship with the police and a version of Wayne that is more of a public figure/philanthropist.
The truly breaking point is when one of the terrorists in the Garden answers to the question “who are you” by saying “vengeance”, the same term that Batman uses in the start of the movie to call himself. That’s when he realizes that with vengeance, hate and fear he won’t be able to change the city, because people need hope.
On Ben's point referring to the Nolan trilogy and Batman's reasoning and tactics; "He needs to create a theatrical sort of fear"... I don't agree they missed that with this movie; it just wasn't given a huge amount of plot time, perhaps because the main audience knows by now why and how he became The Batman, similar to why we don't see the spider bite Peter in the latest Spider-Man trilogy- it's just not so much of an origin story. Well, to this Batman's credit, he clearly states in the first act that he can't be everywhere at the same time, so he spread the idea (fear) into the underworld that when you commit a crime, there's a chance he's already watching you from the shadows (which Gotham City is filled with)and that you could be next. The movie emphasizes on this idea by often making him appear by stepping out of the same shadows he's referring to. In his own words: "I am the shadows".
It was such a cool scene, with the different criminals seeing the Batsignal and then staring into the inky blackness of the dark imagining him there. That was very well done.
The problem I had with that scene is that it was my favorite part of the movie. It was absolutely perfect, but the movie never captured that tension again for me and left me wondering where that Batman was.
I agree that the best scene was hinting he could be anywhere in the darkness, but there isnt a single fight scene where he has the element of surprise or uses the darkness or uses their paranoia against them
Peter’s spider bite gives him his powers, but it’s the death of Uncle Ben that gives him his motivation. For Batman that should be his parents being killed at a botched robbery, but there was a lack of intentionality in the way this Batman goes about doing what he does, he felt aloof during the movie. They stated his motives, but needed to show it.
yea, but at the end of the movie the Batman decides to hiding in the shadows a start helping people get air-lifted to safety… does he need a scary costume for that?
Rather a person likes the movie or not, I must applaud the fact that this is one of the worst reviews I've ever heard. I can't get my 15 minutes back but I figured at least I can leave a comment then I realized everyone felt his take was as lame as I did.
I think you are missing the point. This movie IS the explanation of his motivation. It’s pretty much the entire point. He goes from being “vengeance” and becomes “hope.” Think about how he literally transforms from not even telling the Asian guy at the beginning he wasn’t going to hurt him to holding someone’s hand to comfort as she goes up into the helicopter. Every time he sees a kid or Alfred in the hospital (or how much pain cat woman was in) he becomes more and more clear…not to mention the letting go of living up to his image of his father (who he finds out is human and makes mistakes) and resisting the temptation to run away with the girl to instead stay and serve the city. We are so used to Marvel spoon feeding us origin stories that it’s hard to recognize them sometimes when they aren’t cliches.
Where are you getting that he isn’t fighting criminals anymore? I felt like he found his reason for fighting criminals. Just because he didn’t disappear when he needed help in other ways doesn’t mean he wasn’t going to kick butt in the future.
A young Batman learns 3 major lessons in this movie. 1) He learns that *Vengeance* alone is not the answer as *Justice* should always trump it. Especially since even evil men can seek vengeance when personally wronged. This is learned in his interactions with Riddler, Catwoman, the Riddler's follower 2) He learns that those who are sworn to protect you can be the ones seeking to destroy you. He learns this in his interactions with the politicians and law enforcement agents in the city. This is why he really respects Gordon as a cop. And finally,... 3) He learns that a person can still remain a positive role model despite a bad decision in their past. This is learned in his interactions with Alfred and the discovery of what his father attempted to do to protect his wife. Ben missed this because he was triggered by Catwoman's "white privilege" statement and Robert Pattinson's dower Bruce Wayne. I am no fan of the left's ideology of privilege but that doesn't mean accusing someone of privilege is not in Catwoman's cynical character. She would absolutely make such a statement even that one. She'd also be the type to stand with you when push comes to shove despite the initial sentiment. As for Pattinson's Bruce, you have to consider the moments you see him among the public. This happens only three times. Once at a funeral, one time with a nurse at the hospital hearing Alfred is in critical condition and the other after hearing Riddler mark him as a victim and exposing his father which causes him to confront Carmine in person at his seedy establishment. You are not going into any of these places in those moments as a carefree billionaire playboy philanthropist. I agree with Ben that Bruce and Batman behaved the same in the film but unless you are unwilling or unable to read the room, you miss the explanation I provided. Also I think what Ben was wanting to watch was *Batman Year One.* This is a *Batman Year 3 story*; so we are watching a character whose fundamental motivations are already well underway. So of course you are not going to get much explanation as to why he put on the mask in this one. Hell he still isn't great at gliding through buildings yet but we know he has progressed far enough as Batman that he knows he will need to be able to. This film is a sequel to an origin story we don't need to see at the moment. Batman the Animated Series is in my opinion the most perfect representation of the character I have ever seen. The first episode of that story he fights Man-Bat so clearly telling Batman's story in chronological order was not going to happen. I like Ben but he is really overreacting on this one.
"I'm vengeance" Here's your reason, that's why Bruce became Batman. The plot of the movie is not about how "batman bad" but how this particular batman motives are pretty gray. He doesn't really fight to protect the innocents, he fights to avenge his parents. The whole talk about criminals and justice is mostly just makeup. Pattinson actually talked about this in an interview, how his interpretation of the character was deeply rooted not in justice but in the idea of vengeance, how he sees in every thug he beats up those that murdered his family. Matt Reeves' batman is driven by HATRED, frustration and agression, like he is constantly living his trauma trying to rewrite history. The police and even civilians are scared of him because he is legit an absolute freak.
they actually mentioned this in the film i believe, they said something ab him reliving it and being able to take his anger and get his revenge on the criminals he is beating to a pulp
The message I got from the ending was not that he shouldn't fight crime but that his mission needs to be bigger than just an expression of his personal rage following his parents' murder. His personal vengeancebis not s healthy or sustainable motivator for the crusade he is embarking on. The reason he must be Batman becomes protecting the innocent rather than just doing it to hurt the criminals as a proxy for Joe Chill. I accept that a vaguely 'woke' framing of some issues harmed that message such as Batman not contesting that stealing is wrong (and that is her personal vengeance because she has been wronged by powerful men) with Catwoman because the writers are clearly too immersed in that narrative that rich dudes are evil despite the fact that Batman is a rich dude who isn't.
The more I think about it, the more I think Selina's remark about "rich, white privileged assholes" was to showcase her own ignorance, as shown by the fact that she counts Bruce Wayne as one of them, having no idea that that's who she's talking to. Together with the Riddler's minions being a clear allegory of Antifa, it seems as though like Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, it's subtly very anti-Woke.
@@BarterTom I think you might be right. My problem with the line when I was watching in the theater wasn't about the wokeness so much but it momentarily pulled me out of the movie. I hate when moments do that.
I think the meaning of the ending was much more simple than most people think. The whole film Batman was looking for evidence that he was helping the city. By the ending he sees that he is helping his whole city. He might not always put the crime to an absolute end, but he can always help its people. When the kid takes his hand it shows the people now trust him. And it took a kid to grab his hand for the mayor to grab it. Then he led them out of the rubble. He will lead them to the light, a better city. He will be the person on the frontlines fighting for that. He’s not asking to be their leader, just to be their defender.
Frankly I felt what would be considered right wing, conservative messaging subtly underpinning the entire film as well as more obvious yet much less consequential progressive elements. People see what they want.
Dang. I didn’t know it was possible to disagree with Ben this much😂 The point of the movie was not that Batman should be a pathetic firefighter. It was that he should be a symbol of hope for Gotham instead of a symbol of only fear. Remember in the train station scene (after the thugs were beat) when the guy who was gonna get beat up told Batman not to hurt him? That’s what the good people of Gotham thought of him. He was purely a symbol of fear. The best of Batman shows him as someone who defends the helpless because he cares about them. I thought the character arc was actually great. This was a really poetic and passionate movie. Ben couldn’t be more wrong about Reeves. Matt Reeves clearly loves Batman.
Exactly! I think the fact that Riddler considered them on the same side and that riddlers minion said “vengeance” was the wake up call for Batman as well.
That's exactly Shapiro's point though. The movie hates the idea of Batman and wants him to be Superman. White knight instead of dark knight. That example of the train station doesn't help - how is that guy cowering in the corner irrationally from the guy who just saved him supposed to know that Batman is now beating people up in a nice, "hopeful" way instead of vengeful? Doesn't make a bit of sense. Batman is supposed to be scary and criminals being afraid of him is supposed to be what gives people hope. The two are one and the same.
@@Arphemius that’s true, I agree Superman is more of the symbol of hope. I think you’re right, but Batman has been the hero of compassion for decades. Just watch Batman The Animated Series. He deeply cares for the people he rescues, and is simultaneously terrifying to the people of Gotham. The point of the movie is that he realizes he must be both. “Vengeance” is a morally corruptible reason to inflict violence on any society, and Batman realizes this when the goon calls himself vengeance.
@@thomasreger8621 It's true that Batman cares about innocents - he will always prioritize saving people over punishing criminals, but the point of Batman is that the two can be the same. I do actually think that the Batman that learns how to reconcile that is the core of the character, which, if the movie truly pursued that, would genuinely be good. But he'll always be more in the shadow, not a literal beacon of light leading people out of the darkness. That imagery is what's irksome, as well as the idea that punishing the wicked is somehow impossible to connect to giving people hope.
Remember Rachael smacking Bruce when he suggested revenge and justice are the same thing? Remember batman creating and identity that struck fear into the criminals but inspired hope in the people? All of it is Christopher Nolan's take on batman. Same Kool aid different flavor.
Totally respect your take on the movie and I can even understand why you would view it in the light you do but I think you missed the point the director is trying to convey. He’s been Batman for two years and crime is still up. He’s not a good business man because he routinely brushes off his BRuce Wayne responsibilities in order to further devote himself to being the bat. He loves being the bat, it’s the only time he truly feels that he is himself. But by the end of the movie he understands that in order to be the change he wants to see in Gotham, he MUST take a multi-faceted approach. This means we will now see his Bruce persona be further developed and as Batman he will not only been and enemy to the criminal elements but he will also be a symbol of hope to the innocents that even in a city corrupt as Gotham There is someone looking out for them.
Exactly this. So many people would need to see him helping the civilians as Bruce Wayne to understand this sadly. Glad they didn't throw out nuance to cater for the slow types.
@@allypezz It also makes sense within the plot - the money from the Wayne's renewal fund had been diverted and if Bruce were not neglecting the family's legacy, he would have noticed it sooner.
And when he held out his hand to help those in the flooded stadium and the others hesitated at first but one boy reached out and grabbed it. Then the others followed him out of he flood. That's what sealed it. This is what he has to become, a symbol, a crusader, a dark knight.
I think Ben missed the point of the movie as to the character Batman. At the beginning of the movie Batman is pure vengeance and at the end he realizes he has to be more than just vengeance. He has to be justice and a hero. That his vow to his parents is more than just punching criminals in the face. This is year two of Batman so we have to understand that Batman is just now figuring out what his purpose is for the city. A big thing I agree with Ben about is Roberts portrayal as Batman/Bruce. Bruce was as skulky non charismatic person who ever went out or did anything. There are two or three moments in the film where ppl see Bruce and they are extremely happy to see him. Why are they happy to see him? Bale's Batman was a man of the town Roberts is not. ***spoilers*** Two of the biggest sins of this movie was not showing Bruce fixing the exploitation of his fathers city fund that the criminals were using. Not setting up the Wayne Foundation for orphans to start to fix one of the reasons why Riddler lost his mind. Granted the next movie can fix these issues but the movie was 3 hours long tie up those loose ends.
"The Batman is a needless collage of not only better movies, but more egregiously of better Batman movies as director/co-writer Matt Reeves and co-writer Peter Craig create an utterly inferior and infuriating vision of the Dark Knight."...SPOT ON!!!
@@EMPATICO4 Agreed. This film is pointless and I regret that I wasted 3 hours of my life sitting uncomfortably while checking my watch every 5 min like if you’re gonna do detective stuff at least make it more interesting and batmanny smh.
Bruce Wayne was definitely written to be obsessed with Batman. It’s made clear throughout the film and a perfect example would be when Bruce walks aggressively towards Falcone outside of the funeral and then gets stopped. When he sees his target he means business and in that scene he almost forgot to channel in Bruce Wayne.
@@houseofmatrix6174 nobody said it is. But to say that the movie wasn't good because of these stupid reasons is reactionary and contrarian and doesn't follow any sort of rational framework at all. It was pretty comic-accurate and had interesting themes but it had flaws. It was overall a good movie.
There's no dichotomy because there isn't one yet. This is really what would happen if Batman was only 2 years into his career. He's work-obsessed, practically living nocturnally for the last long while, and that has taken a toll on him.
I actually really disagree with the notion that this movie was anti-Batman. See, there's been this misconception in the last several years, particularly since the DCEU's Batman became the cultural face of the character, that Batman is by default a bitter vigilante who targets criminals because he hates them, or that he's only seeking to avenge his parents' murder. His entire schtick before that was fighting crime in Gotham _for the sake of Gotham._ So that no eight year old boy would ever have to watch their parents get gunned down in front of them again. Because Thomas and Martha Wayne loved Gotham City, and practically built it, Bruce carries on that legacy and honors their memory by protecting the city and the people in it that his parents _and himself_ love so much. TL;DR: Batman helping people get airlifted from the flooded Gotham City isn't a "Defund the Police" signal. It's a return to form.
Agreed. I think it it pretty obvious that the police are desperately needed, they also need to not be corrupt. Your point is further validated in the final dialogue for me.
I really love when people comment what I'm thinking. Its super ironic that its one of the more comic accurate batman portrayals but people keep asking wheres Bruce Wayne? You mean batman pretend personality? Who cares.
Agreed Ben is really stuck on the Woke thing, I didn’t notice it at all, I think he’s looking for it at this point, there’s plenty of comics that have catwoman as black, who cares if the acting is good
I interpreted the ending as him understanding that there are two things he must accomplish as Batman. Throughout the film we see he understands that he must strike fear into Gotham’s criminals, but at the end he sees that he also must be a symbol of good for the people of Gotham. And he has to move forward and find that balance in order to truly save the city.
this dude is a clown . im not even american but if u guys listening to ppl like this who dont even do their research before open their big mouths then god help yall
I watched your reviews, and I know reviews are just like opinions and everyone is going to have different takes on the films. I really think you misunderstood this film, and your point with the dark knight being the best Batman film, I won’t disagree the Nolan trilogy is incredible. Those films are beautiful, I love Nolan’s work, but if you go back and really watch it - his Gotham is boring. It looks like Chicago. Which is where it’s shot I believe, the Batman really made Gotham come alive almost a character in itself. It’s dirty grungy, a lot like the Jokers Gotham. Also, the dark knight isn’t amazing because of Bales performance as Batman. It’s amazing because of Ledgers performance as the Joker. So to compare the dark knight to the Batman is not really consistent, the dark knight isn’t a Batman film. It’s a joker film. No one ever brags about how good bale was as Batman in the dark knight. Just sayin.
Nah man, this movie is great. I’m sorry. I usually agree with you, but this movie feels as though it’s pulled right out of the comic. The acting was great, the action is INCREDIBLE, and the reason he does it is because the same reason we always know for Batman. It isn’t his origin, we know Batman. It’s his second year, he hasn’t learned how to be Batman and Bruce Wayne as separate entity’s.
@@theman44ful you are completely correct. He is looking at it from a political standpoint. This is also early Batman so he’s not as good a detective or as good a Batman. I feel like he just watched the trailers, and said “yeah I know what I’m talking about.”
I loved the movie with the dark, noir, daredevil-esque feel. It’s a different take on Batman and I think it was phenomenally done. Hard to compare to Nolan’s
I think "phenomenally" is a bit excessive. It was done, but not phenomenally done 😂. I didnt hate it, but I wanted to wash myself by watching a different batman movie.
He’s doing what he’s doing because he’s young, pissed off, resentful, vengeful and full of rage. It’s not until the end that he realizes the purpose of Batman where he realizes he needs to separate the two. It shows the growing pains of Batman which I love.
The problem is that this is not explored in the script. Batman's narration is the only thing we get for an arc or exploration of this concept. Lazy writing.
I agree, one thing I loved about it is that we didn’t have to sit through another origin, we already know why he’s Batman because it’s been in all of the other movies
@@adrianpale2342 it's not explored in the script? There is a shot of him at the end leading civilians to safety and another shot of him bring that child to a helicopter. The theme is very much explored in the script and goes beyond the narration given.
1. Catwoman isn't always bad and is more of an anti-hero in a lot of iterations of Batman, so saying it's woke because she's of color (which honestly I don't even know if that's true it's been a while since I watched the movie) is really dumb. 2. The fact he doesn't donate to charity doesn't mean the movie is depicting him as a 'bad white man', that might be the most backwards take on this movie ever. It's like that because A. he is spending him money to quite literally FIGHT crime, and B. because he has a hard time being Bruce Wayne and separating him from Batman, which is apart of that plot that you mentioned.
this is a movie about batman going from being "vengeance," which he realized even criminals can be, to being "justice" which is a force for only good. It was a movie where batman had character development, so I liked it alot!
That's not new though. "Batman" being the real Bruce Wayne and "Bruce Wayne" being the mask he puts on is a concept that has been out there for decades. I mean this is what the Nolan films did. The Bruce Wayne public figure is a character precisely created to protect Batman's secret identity. In this movie this concept is completely lacking. Perfectly reasonable for fans to not like that.
@@TheJotaroKujo this movie isn’t Batman and Bruce separated. This is Bruce not being Bruce at all. It starts off with him never leaving at all. He says he’s becoming nocturnal. He’s pale. The sun hurts his eyes. He’s reminded by Alfred that he needs to STILL BE Bruce. He doesn’t want to be Bruce. He doesn’t know how. That’s why he seems like Batman when he’s out.
@@TheJotaroKujo no I think they mean like, Bruce isn't out there, he doesn't really have a public persona, when he shows up places people are like "holy shit its Bruce Wayne" because he's just a little quiet hermit boy who doesn't seem to engage at all with the powerful people of the city that previous versions of him made a point to. Whereas his batman seems to be out every night, strolls onto crime scenes, people don't even seem surprised when he shows up. seems like most of the Batman's I remember, Bruce is a well-known public figure who people think they know, and The Batman is a mysterious figure everyone is entranced by. in this its the opposite, the batman is feared by the underworld but he's kind of regarded as a staple sort of presence, while Bruce Wayne is the one that people seem shocked to see and whisper about. other versions of Bruce would talk to the same people during the day and night, just as a completely different person which other people were unaware of, which causes emotional tension for sure. but in this one I actually really loved that when he showed up at the funeral the people he talks to in the night just kind of pointed him out or shrugged their shoulders at him. its a way different dynamic than what your used to, but I liked it. And that's why some people felt he's the same the whole way through, its because the real Bruce was always like this. the batman is his real personality, the "Bruce" he presented to the public was always an alter ego, in this movie he hasn't created that alter ego yet.
The score isn’t derivative, it’s more reminiscent than anything. You can instantly tell it’s a Batman theme, so yes it would have to kind of sound like the themes that came before it
It is derivative. It sounds almost exactly the empire’s march from star wars but missing a few bars. You can’t un-hear it bro. When you watch it again you’ll see.
@@brunovaz Don’t tell me you can’t remember the theme in your head right now😂it’s a pretty simple theme that is quite effective in the film, but whatever you say
I have to agree with Ben on this. I didn’t hate this movie, but it is the only Batman movie that I could only watch once. I even was able to watch the Clooney and Kilmer versions several times. It held my attention just enough to sit through it once. I can’t say that I hated Pattinson in the role, but he definitely doesn’t fit. I will say that Colin Farrell was outstanding. I’m hoping that this will be a one off movie and that they move on. I will say on a second issue that I hated the Joker, I couldn’t even get through the movie, and I have tried three times to do so. For me, I would have loved to see Ray Stevenson play an aged Batman, before he passed away. The graphic novel “The Dark Knight Returns “ would have made a phenomenal film adaptation. I can’t imagine who would be able to portray the role other than the late great Stevenson.
i think your missing the point, the conclusion of the movie isnt that batman shouldn't be directly fighting criminals like what he has for as long as we know his character, its just that he realizes what being BATMAN is all about. He still will directly fight and confront criminals, and strike fear in the hearts of those who commits a crime, but he can't be JUST that. He needs to do more (this time as the billionaire bruce wayne). the point that its trying to make, is batman in the majority of this movie doesn't represent the TRUE "BATMAN" character, he hasn't developed into that yet. Because even in the comics, fighting criminals isnt the only thing batman does, he literally uses his wealth to actually develop his surroundings (whether it be gotham or the world in general)
Totally agree! He also talks about how Bruce Wayne was just Batman without wearing the mask and there wasn't a distinction and how Bruce did no charity or philanthropy work. This movie obviously takes place when Batman is young and very new to Gotham. The Police call him a freak, the criminals in the beginning laugh at him, and Bruce is still angry over his parents death and wants vengeance. I think the next movies are going to have huge character development for both Bruce Wayne and Batman and it will make sense why in this movie Bruce is kind of broken. This movie had Batman make his first step from fighting crime out of anger and vengeance, to fighting crime to help others and be a beacon of hope.
Exactly...its a constant learning process...he learns that some doors could be opened a lot easier as Bruce Wayne. For eg- Going to see Falcone as Bruce Wayne .
He doesn't learn that being Batman is bad. He needs to reconsider his methods of being Batman, and by the end of the movie understands that by exclusively beating up criminals is not going to help the city, but by protecting the innocent, he could make a real difference. When the riddler thug says that he is vengeance, it makes Batman realize that he is essentially no different than the riddler, and needs to be better than that. And yeah, this movie is 3 hours long, but that's because it takes the time to hold on some shots and allowed for way better impact and emotion from the characters (and mainly Batman). (Edit: When I say protecting the innocent, I mean that he also needs to give them hope. When he saves the man from the gang at the beginning, the man is still afraid even after being saved. Batman realizes that he needs to be a symbol of hope to the people, while still instilling fear into criminals.)
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. I think Ben is WAY wrong on this one. The movie was phenomenal. Good enough for me to stomach the 5 seconds of wokeness even! Unlike Rise of Skywalker.
Batman is ninja, what the film is trying to do is make batman fill the role of superman, they even spit the word "hope" few minutes into the ending LMFAO
In terms of the vengeance aspect, Batman realizes that just punishing criminals isn't enough. In the beginning of the film, when the street gang corners the guy in the train station, Batman intervenes NOT to save and help the guy, but to punish the gang. This clearly shows when the guy says "dont hurt me" and batman doesnt even react. This whole time, his mission has been to punish criminals, not save innocent people from them. By the end of the film, he realizes that he should make an active effort in saving and helping people, as it will give them hope which is more effective than just fighting crime for the sole purpose of punishing criminals
Yeah idk why Ben think this is a superman ripoff. Bruce always wanted to protect Gotham. YES he wants to punish criminals but he also cares about the city. In terms of being a beacon of "hope" I can understand why Ben would say what he said, but I don't think HOPE is batmans actual goal even though that's what he said in the movie
Just to follow up on my initial comment: the whole reason why bruce wayne become batman (in general batman mythos) is so that no child would ever have to experience what he experienced. It was NOT so that all the people that were like the mugger that killed his parents would be punished. but thats his mentality at the beginnnig of the film. He sees a guy about to get beat up and hes like "'oh you wanna beat people up, let me do it to you first" not "damn that guys in danger, let me help him by taking down those thugs"
I actually appreciated the fact that they didn't try to explain why Batman has to be Batman, we've all heard it before and everybody watching the film already knows about Batman's origins. Rehashing it over and over with every new movie is annoying and keeps us from seeing all of the other really awesome parts of the story that happen later in his career.
The more I thought of "emo" Wayne the more I liked it. He's out in the night every night and like he said he's become a "nocturnal creature". It wouldn't make sense if he doesn't look like an introvert. I'm looking forward to the next movie. I'd like to see character development for Bruce. His Batman to me was fine. He's in his early stages of being Batman so it makes sense that he isn't BATMAN. In the next movie I'd like to see him develop better Fear tactics and not see so much of him.
Seeing the same old Batman would have been a waste. If I want that I would just re watch the others. This Batman hadn’t yet made it through the “5 stages of grief” he was messed up and hadn’t healed yet. We all know the origin story already. If he was that messed up as Batman full of anger and self loathing, how could he be anything different as Bruce. He needs time to heal and grow, and there are signs of that happening at the end.
P.S. to some in the comments: The film kept calling Batman “vengeance” to poke at his greenness as a vigilante. It has nothing to do with the actual committing of vengeful acts, but instead everything to do with not striking that fear in Gotham’s underbelly just yet; an information war of sorts, which is why I’m actually pretty surprised Ben doesn’t like this story. It was pretty clearly established in the beginning that Batman liked telling that “I am vengeance” line (or something similar) to the criminals he busted up based on his delivery alone. I mean, think about it-in some 5 hour version of the movie (lol) that was probably a front page headline on at least one edition of the Gotham Gazette by that point-and maybe by no coincidence, since I seem to remember the trailers effectively establishing that quote as a *real-world* meme over the year prior to release, but I digress. The filmmakers obviously wanted to be more subtle about the themes here and let the audience figure it out for themselves, which through other clues made it become more obvious through the course of the story. Ben, you’re missing the point-Batman didn’t just get good at catching criminals overnight. He didn’t just put on the cape and cowl and become the “world’s greatest detective” out of nowhere, because there’s just no payoff in that. It was refreshing to see a plot where Batman makes mistakes so that he can _learn_ from them and grow as the series progresses. *That’s good character development*. Especially considering the timeline: this film takes place after just a year or so of crime fighting, so it would be a waste for those growing pains not to take place. This is good storytelling 101, so I hope you’ll consider giving it another watch with all this in mind.
@@ownthelibs several key mistakes when trying to solve the riddles, failure to actually stop the Riddler’s plans, the whole idea of batman as an embodiment of vengeance was a mistake as he learns in the end of the movie, as well as many more small things. Batman in this movie is really raw and unlearned in the matter of being a good batman, which is intentional and serves the plot extremely well.
@@headedbeefer1511 notice u didn’t actually cite anything. Failing to do something is making a mistake. What specific mistake did he do that made him fail? And using the word vengeance without doing anything vengeful was a stupid plot trick. He didn’t do one thing vengeful the entire movie but we’re supposed to pretend he did because they use the word..
@@ownthelibs both Batman and Gordon thought penguin was the rat and it turns out that the Spanish grammar wasn’t correct on purpose and so Batman was incorrect to chase penguin on the highway.
Disagree wholeheartedly. The point is that Bruce can't save his city just by instilling fear in criminals or by using violence alone. He realizes what he's been doing not only isn't working, but also backfired and created a new breed of criminals. He realizes that what the city needs is a beacon of hope. This is a batman that is still coming into his role and learning how to be what his city needs. I love this movie. While it could've cut at least 15-20 minutes about 2/3 into the movie, it's still a well-made movie, a great callback to the older crime thrillers. The so-called wokeness is also so minimal it barely registers unless you're splitting hair. The race swapping doesn't matter, for those actors all did a wonderful job. Edit: P.S. To those who say Supes is the beacon of hope, not Batman...sigh, Bats and Supes are called World's Finest for a reason. They are two sides of the same bloody coin. It just says a lot about Gotham that the city's beacon is someone like Batman. Yes, he's darker, broodier, angrier, more violent. He beats criminals up at night, but he's also saving people and inspiring others to do good (i.e. the Batfamily). At his core, the Bat is motivated by kindness, a desire to help, and his faith in humanity and redemption.
Exactly, I think a point very early in the movie shows this idea perfectly. When Batman saves the man on train. The man is just as scared as the criminals, which gives Batman a glimpse as to what he’s doing wrong in his approach.
Exactly. This was a very very good film. I don't get why Ben's crying over the 'wokeness' bringing politics into fiction and all. Zoe Kravitz did a great job and if this feels woke to him then perhaps movies should be only white so it doesn't feel 'forced'.
@@aakashsingh4422 Batman learns from Superman that he doesn't always need to rely on fear and violence. It's a pretty common piece of character development for batman that the movie handles really well, and Ben Shapiro completely whiffs on because he only cares about "woke" culture politics. Ben Shapiro is getting way too hard to sound smart.
@@lewisherron6842 Hey thanks man, it's funny I don't normally like Ben but even though he missed the point of the movie he is aware of some details I wasn't privy to.
I’ve always hated Ben Shapiro- for context I’ve always been a NYC liberal, even last election voted left (that’s when I just stopped caring about politics) but will never ever like Ben Shapiro or ANYTHING right related. Hand to God. However, he is absolutely correct in every aspect, in fact I feel like he held back. As a die hard true Batman lore fan and knowing for decades what makes him special and I watched this movie w no reviews or trailers - nothing, I wanted to make sure like I do w all movies I go into its w a clear head. So when I watched this I was horrified to see the way they deconstructed his base and main character in addition throw politics in the movie cause that’s not why I watch movies like this , I watch them to escape politics not it shoving it in my face. But ok even so they have duped Batman fans into thinking this is the best Batman adaptation ever via styles and beautiful visuals and I was surprised NO ONE noticed that they shat on Batman, deconstructed his lore by making Wayne family “evil” and the point to show us that Batman deals with crime via only his fists. Anyone that is a true Batman fan knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that BW has time and time again not just dontated money to the city but created fkn free clinics in the slums of Gotham for no other reason then those in the pits of the can get FREE medical care, and not by some underpaid janky MDS but by the same fkn doctor that literally treats Batman/BW whenever he gets serious injuries. I mean I can list so much more and someone who is a fan of this hero should know this already . In fact they make him look like a doof, he doesn’t solve anything, he didn’t really prevent anything and all he cared about was if the Riddler knew his identity in the end. And for selfish reasons. It betrayed the lore, the point and most importantly the character himself. And the movie is like an amazing magic trick that it pulls on you due to the cinematic beauty it’s shot in with the score etc that you don’t even realize like they just crapped on everything that is Batman. Look when I was watching it the first 40 minutes I was like wow this is amazing and then slowly I was like wait what? Rob hedge funds ? Give money to the city? Telling Alfred to fuck off in every scene even when the man’s body was halfway burned and in ICU because the “greatest detective “ kinda got him there in the first place . I promise I am not pretending about my political affiliation and beliefs. They will probably stay w me (although not as “passionate “) for the remainder of my life. But the fact that Ben Shapiro is the only one who pointed this shit out kinda almost makes me wanna switch sides, jk will never! But as a Batman fan that has for decades read soooooo many comics and watched ALL the animated shows and movies about him and DC along with the live movies I mean you cannot be a Batman fanboy or girl in my case and not see how they just clowned on our favorite superhero. In fact, us Batman fans, I get it you watched it once and it was stunning and it legit tricked you into thinking it’s a masterpiece but I beg you to watch it again after you have rewatched some older animated movies and shows if you don’t want to hop in the comics again. If you watch it again you will see what I I see and apparently that only FKN Ben Shapiro was able to spot is NOT a Batman movie, in fact I promise on your next watch or more if you want to really make yourself angry you will be infuriated. I leave the real world of politics etc to watch these movies and I don’t want them in these movies cause if i did idk I would go and re watch House Of Cards again or some other Trump sucks documentary but don’t put this shit in my movies! And truly the race thing to me idc about and that’s when I know someone is just a racist asshole by THAT being their biggest problem w the movie. They made Batman a doof and had to even shit on the Wayne Legacy (like why? I know the world is filled with horrible billionaires! Can’t I have ONE fake one that is good) They took a dump on the whole world of Batman and I promise you this is just the beginning. Part 2 will be some garbage of Batman gives away his whole fortune to the wholesome politician mayor and stands by the side lines and helps here and there but mostly beats up cops. Idk but I think this was just the tip of the iceberg to see how much the audience will swallow and before you know it 10 years from now we won’t even have a Batman be just unisex BW handing out never ending cash to a mayor that says nice things in public. It’s the sheer stupidity and I’m angry I got duped when I first saw it but even though it felt off but I was bedazzled by the cinematic beauty of it. And you know what until this film I didn’t even know that was possible. I only know now it is as someone who has known the consistent character of Batman in almost everything that a beautifully visual film w the right score can totally be a garbage movie. Now i feel like I have to re watch all these other “masterpieces “ I’ve ever seen to see how often does this bait and switch happen. Imma say it and this is shit I NEVER thought I would say or write. Solid Job Ben Shapiro for pointing out what this “movie” really was. Deceptive in making us enjoy the deconstructing of a character Batman fans love. And no I am NOT a Snydervese fan either . Like at all. But he never hid it. I mean the dude loudly said if you don’t think your superhero’s don’t kill then you are delusional. I mean it then defeats being a fkn superhero and he is an idiot and his movies were some poser shit as well! But he never deceptively masqueraded it and made Batman a fkn moronic imp. Argh sorry. I had to get this out and I can’t even believe the only place i could was on Ben fkn Shapiros channel of all places .
I'm certain that no one's gonna read this but I strongly disagree with Ben here. As a film noir the message of the film is to show that the main character is as messed up as the city is and that only by changing his view on the city and himself (from vengeance driven to hope) is the only way to redeem the city. It's the motive behind the actions not the actions them shelves that need redefining. I though the film was great and that Ben's politic views stopped him from having a good time.
I read it, I also highly agree. Ben had to keep his narrative going for views, it’s his living , he’s playing a character that makes his profits of constantly criticizing everything I’m site, while it can be entertaining, I’d rather live in a world where people like him aren’t given the juice to drive in the first place. He’s just so negative
The more I listen to Ben's movie reviews, the more I am shocked by his sheer inability to understand subtext. Batman's arc in this film is not him coming to the conclusion that he shouldn't fight criminals; it's him coming to the conclusion that he shouldn't brutally beat them up and obliterate their bones. That he should function as Gotham's protector and savior, a symbol for justice; not a relentless beast that stands for vengeance. They nailed the character here, really showing the inner scared child that he carries around, full of grief and pain and rage. The point of the movie is to show him giving closure to his trauma.
Yes but he was already a symbol for justice. Vengeance is justice. What do you think the characters in Batman Begins thought he was going around carrying civilians and handing out flowers? People already knew Batman was a good guy they don’t need to see him in broad daylight.
@@cydra_infinity1423 Vengeance for vengeance's sake is not justice. Thinking that this film's ending implies that Batman will become a hippie pacifist is missing the point in a gargantuan way. He will still lurk in the shadows and beat up bad guys, but with the purpose of protecting the people of Gotham, not on a brutal rampage to relieve his own pain.
This is the same thing when it comes to Man Of Steel...ppl shat'd on that movie without understanding that Superman in that movie hasn't become the Superman we all know yet
Batman hardly beat up anyone in this movie. 2 scenes at most did he give a brutal beating , and 1 of those scenes is when he injected himself with adrenaline.
Well they acknowledged there are also systemic problems in the world as well and punching crime in the face might not always be the answer. What was he supposed to do, enjoy the film or something?
@@Not.afitnesspro there was plenty of Batman punching the shit out of people to take a break from the mystery. I think it's shy of excellence but it is great.
@@Not.afitnesspro I will disagree on the point about the badassery, I saw the film in 4dx anytime Batman did something the seats and effects came to life, it happened a lot. I was happy with the level of badassery. And regarding it being a detective story, there have been many Batman fans who wanted a dedicated detective plot. I appreciated the film noir style and the tone the movie generated.
What was the reason for the random seawall bombing then? Bens correct about that part... The Riddler was done and completed his mission 100%. There was no reason for him to do that at all...
@@morpusflorpus5729 But he had already taken out the corrupt mayor, DA, cops, and Falcone himself. I guess he failed killing Bruce Wayne but he didn't really matter. The new mayor was a good mayor I thought? The Riddler just wanted to take down those corrupt officials in that specific plot. The goons and city flood was just fluff for something to do and faceless bad guys to fight.
I'd argue it's actually very fortunate. That means you actually payed attention to the film. Not saying people can't like it but it's the reasons Ben didn't like it that make it obvious he wasn't paying attention
Right? I’m thinking to myself what tf is he talking about? This is the best interpretation of Batman I’ve seen in a long time. Not perfect, but it leaves room for character growth.
All the issues he had with the film were silly. "The film doesn't explain why he became Batman" then he rambles about how Batman Begins explained it...even though it's the exact same thing here. Being a symbol of fear for his enemies. This is a year 2 story. We don't need to know why he became Batrman...we already know why. "The film is saying Batman should be a firefighter. He is never Bruce Wayne...only Batman": The film shows that by him just being a symbol of fear. He is scaring the people he wants to save. I think the next film will totally be about him developing his "Bruce Wayne" persona, and I can't wait!.
Ben has kind of gone of the deepend here a little bit because even for the Catwoman scene which she said white previliage it was a throw way line and someone from her socio economic background would say. It's not about being "woke" it's about characterization. Also as for the director hating Batman, I am shocked at that statement because at the end of the movie Batman even says he wants to the ideal that is mentioned in the Nolan movies, so I feel like the word "woke" is just thrown around without real reason. This was a character study of Batman.
@@gofish7388 What wokeness? What the Catwoman said is just part of the character as Sharan points out. So Ben is reading too much culture war politics into this... 🙄🙄
@@fahimp3 Yep I agree. Catwoman is a character that is cynical and would absolutely say such a thing even if she doesn't truly believe it deep down. If she didn't say "white privilege", she still would have been the type to call him "privileged". I hate the leftwing's notion of "privilege", but I would be lying if I said it's not a consistent character trait of hers to write a person off as a certain type and then not stick with them when push comes to shove despite the initial sentiment. It's why she is easily the villain Batman tolerates the most. Deep down she doesn't believe there is no hope in people. Especially after meeting the Batman. Ben got triggered and is overreacting.
Im late to comment.. but I just watched the movie.. But .. I think alot of people are truly missing what Bruce Wayne is .. he is mentally disturbed, like his mother.. Billionaire that dresses up like a Bat and fights crime because his parents were murdered… Bruce Wayne is Batman.. Batman is Bruce Wayne .. one and the same .. they do not substitute.. or separate In this movie.. he transformed from Vengeance to Protector To totally different things.. I was happy to see the detective Batman… I think this is a great direction… I do like Bens politics… But honestly he read way to much in this movie He pulled stuff out that he shouldn’t have …. The Batman is evolving… more than a mentally unstable billionaire…seeking his parent’s killer.. but now a mentally unstable detective that is attempting to return justice to Gotham … Also this movie revealed his mother also fought demons and suffered with mental illness
Ben, you do understand he isn't exactly "Batman" yet right? The entire premise of the film is him becoming that character. He's young and learning, hence why he isn't completely calculated and elegant. Instead, he's full of rage, willing to punch his way through problems instead of dealing with them a different way. You way miscalculated on this take Chief. This is the most comic accurate Batman we have seen in years, and DC/Warnerbros FINALLY did the character *justice.*
@@houseofmatrix6174 nobody said it’s “masterpiece”, yes it has some flaws (it was too long). BUT Ben’s take on the movie is totally wrong lol. It’s the most accurate real life portrayal of Batman we have had on screen.
I think Ben actually missed the Central point of this movie. Batman is just vengeance to begin with. He’s cynical. He’s angry. He’s not as caring for the victims as we have come to expect. But at the end of the movie, he realizes he needs to become more than vengeance. The scene at the end with him leading the people out of the flooded stadium is a beautiful visual representation of this. This movie is clearly setting a redemption arc for Batman. I found this concept and the detective Batman version fresh and interesting, despite some woke fodder.
I thought that scene was incredibly cheesy but to each their own. The actual realization point that could have the "goosebump" effect was "Who the hell are you? - Me? I'm vengeance". That is the scene. Not the flood scene. I think both scenes are very much on the nose and did not touch me at all. But, again, to each their own.
The movie was good then gradually became bad, the pacing was off and they threw away the artsy style from the beginning to a more mainstream cliche and cheesy style as it continued on.
I enjoyed the movie. However I don't see the "lefty" stuff everyone is talking about. The car chase was my favorite part and I thought the theme that he is pure vengeance without regard for what that could mean is an interesting twist. I am looking forward to where they go from here.
Ben, when Batman saves the people at the end it’s because they need to be saved and ALL OF THE BAD GUYS ARE DEFEATED at that point. It’s not like he becomes anti-fighting bad guys all of a sudden its just that he learns that he doesn’t have to be vengeance but can be truly heroic. I don’t even like his movie that’s much but you completely misunderstood the ending lol
No he didn’t. The movie ends with Batman becoming a hopeful character not one that is simply principle. That’s not Batman, that’s Superman’s moral framework
@@mjh277 batman is much more of a complex character than "simply principle". And batman has been a dark symbol of hope this isn't new. Superman and batman can both inspire hope and go about their heroics in different ways. That's why they're called the 'worlds finest'. I guess superman has a monopoly on "hopeful moral framework". Any superhero that inspires hope is now superman now too?
@@evanderlugops Batman's 'goodness' comes from his principles, his principles which the movie does imply are wrong and need to be repented of. Superman becomes the inspiration of hope, an ideal, something to inspire, a leader. Batman isn't that and never has been that. It's why in the justice League show when superman 'dies' he gives that passionate speech at Supes grave about different philosophies. And no Superman isn't the only hopeful character but it is a defining trait of him and one of the main criticisms of Snyder's superman tbh.
@@mjh277 doesn't really matter how it originated. They are still referred to that to this day. Reference or not. They are comics most iconic duo and are different to each other but similar.
I agree with everything you said The suit looks good and Pattinson is a good actor. I wish there was a difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman like in Batman begins but there isnt
Humm... I think this review proves exactly what the movie is trying to do. The fact that Bruce/Batman is trying to figure things out and the fact that in the sequels, he would still keep beating up criminals but then Bruce would have to become a philanthropist, sort of fighting the battle on both fronts and not just in the dark as vengeance. I think this is concluding too fast. I think you'll look back after subsequent sequels and appreciate this installment.
I had the same thought. overall it's not my favorite batman film but I believe Matt Reeves has an arc in mind for this particular Batman in which other installments will show his growth and fulfillment of the purpose he discovered in this film. this is only the beginning.
just like the spiderman ffh series. its a new reinvention of the character and look at people's opinion on toms spiderman after the 3rd film. they love him
@Slash and Trash this sets up the early Batman, he's new to all this. And by the end of the movie, he becomes the Batman we all know and love, it's a perfect origin story.
Ben is kind of missing the point. This is the first movie in the trilogy and they are setting up a character arc. This is still a very young Batman and we see him evolve at the end of the movie
I mean, I figured his turn to “hope” at the end wasn’t “I just help people now.” It’s him deciding he has to do more to keep the city alive, fight the crime, help the innocents. At the start of the movie he saves the Asian dude, then leaves. Now he beats up the riddler goons, then he leads the people
The problem with the move is that they play a word game with vengeance.. they pretend by using the word vengeance that Batman is committing vengeance, when he doesn’t actually do it one time. The whole “he needs to be a beacon of hope instead of just being a beacon of fear” is a good idea, but it has nothing to with vengeance. Which is what makes Ben mad. They make it seem like fighting criminals is “vengeance”
Is he supposed to stay there and console the person he saved, put them into therapy? Walk them to their house? Make sure they get a good nights rest? As long as he makes sure they are out of immediate danger and don't need to go to the hospital, that is fine. Batman is a crime fighter, he isn't a therapist/social worker.
@Bad Boys Boogie Batman helps people that are in immediate danger or are being used by criminals in organized crime or his rogues gallery. He is not a social worker that goes to therapy with them, helps old women walk across the street, or get cats out of trees.
I think the end scene when he’s leading the people out of the water is also symbolism for Batman leading the people of Gotham out of the darkness and into the light as a beacon of hope
This is good pointer for his character arch as well because at the start of the movie the first person he saves is scared of him, but at the end the people follow him. Which shows he is no longer scary to everyone, just villains and a symbol of hope for others. which is what he realises he needs to be at the end.
Conservative media comprehension tends to usually be really bad. Obviously not all conservatives, but a lot of the ones that get put on a pedestal usually are incapable of seeing things like this
Matt reeves: I want to ground batman into his early days and show how imperfect he is. *When Ben misses the whole plot* Ben: i hate because he is imperfect
Maybe, but Batman the firefighter at the end of the movie isn’t really an interesting character. Not really sure that’s a character development that will initiate good stories and movies going forward.
Okay so I guess you enjoy reading comics and playing video games and watching movies about losers who screw up all the time. “I’m inspired by this loser I want to grow up and accomplish nothing” -you, 2022
I'm going to have to disagree for the most part. I like Batman's character because he is different in the dichotomy that you were talking about. You are right when you say that most of the other Batmans were millionaire playboys on one side to cover up the existence of Batman. I actually quite like this in the new movie. He's depressed, reclusive, and the only motivation he has for living is seeking vengeance. I think that is much more realistic for someone going through his sort of trauma. Through this movie he has a character arc where he realizes that fighting evil does very little when there is no one helping the good. The point is that he was doing his batman thing for the wrong reason. I liked the Riddler's character. It was nice to not have joker as the main villain for once. I think the reason that they blew up those bombs at the end was a sort of "destroy the old and start anew" idea. Kinda like Sodom and Gomorrah. He exposed the truth, but he needed to do something that would truly make people remember the truth/have to start over from scratch, and if he had to kill some innocents along the way he was fine with it. I really liked the score, but I guess that just comes down to personal taste. I really enjoyed the character of Catwoman although I agree that their chemistry wasn't my favorite. I wish they were just flirty friends instead of whatever the movie was trying to make happen. She had a good backstory and I liked a lot of the scenes with her at the club. There were a few little woke things but I feel like they don't distract from the movie. I think they were more just trying to push the theme of fighting against corruption for the sake of the people.
I believe catwoman was trying to use batman the whole time, batman just succumbed to her because he was mentally unstable in the moment of their kiss, catwoman only showed her "loyalty" to batman when she saved him, batman also has an odd infatuation with her when he was replaying the scene of her rejecting batman when she took out her contact lenses, like most of batmans relations its all based off of bruces unstable mental state, he had literally no one else to comfort him after alfreds bombing, which is why i believe he was more vunerable around her, also batman helped her through almost killing her father they were both in bad mental states and they both helped each other in some way which lead to their attraction towards each other, you have to remember catwoman is more of a normal person vs her other depictions of being mentally strong, they are both more vulnerable in this movie, its not too hard to believe they would become attached to one another, and at the end scene its not even they love each other, they are both focused on their own paths and they both give up on their relationship for their own reasons, but thats the most i could think of to defend their relationship
Very well said! I would argue this movie is up there for debate to be the best Batman movie to date..and while I don’t care much for the theme of the riddler, the score felt very refreshing for having had so many other Batman scores in the past, especially Batman’s theme. However, I think the main problem the movie has does come down to the riddler, at least when it comes to what a lot of people seem to be saying. I think there’s a lot that people are overlooking about the riddler’s character and his plan, but when you look at the overall picture, there are things that don’t even line up with the mentality the character should have, especially in his approach to executing his plan. Riddler would’ve never shown up to the event at the end and risk his safety when he had already convinced a large group of people to execute the rest of it for him, especially after seeing that Batman and him were not on the same page. Also, had the riddler been slightly more animated and emotive it would’ve allowed for the movie to not drag at times or generally feel too long for some people.
@@Cash42 I think you may be right about many of those things for Batman fans. People like Ben may have a problem with some of the characters mannerisms and themes because they are used to seeing a different, more faithful, comic book version of that character. Im actually not that big a fan of batman or superhero movies in general. I think they are boring because they are predictable. I guess I just really liked this one because it wasn't "Bruce Wayne's parents die for the 87th time and then the excessive, millionaire, playboy goes and beats up the joker and saves Gotham." This movie felt a lot more grounded in a lot of ways. He was more accurately displayed as a depressed person who takes out his trauma on other people. He couldn't stop the bombs, but he did end up stopping riddler in the end. The movie ends on a high note with him learning that he needs to protect the innocent in other ways as well. It's a fantastic character arc and I'm willing to overlook some of the more minor flaws and details if it means getting something new and more relatable. I totally get that many people don't want that though. Some people really like the more comic book accurate version of Batman. I'm just not one of them. I also think it's fair to say that this riddler is not the same as in the other portrayals, but I also think making him like this is better than his more cartoons counterpart. I don't think he would've fit the story had he been more animated. I think you could compare him the Joaquin Phoenix joker in a lot of ways. They are tortured souls that were screwed over by the city of Gotham so they seeked some sort of retribution. I think Riddler plays into the "change is good" theme very well. But Its very much a matter of opinion and you make some good points too
I took it that The Riddler was inspired by Batman's example and took it up a gear. He thought Batman approved of his methods and his plan, not realising he doesn't. It's only when the other Riddler fella says "I'm vengeance" that Batman realises the whole endeavour is no longer just about him. Whether Batman sought to be or not, he has become a symbol that people are beginning to emulate and so far it's an inspiration that's making things worse. Batman realises however that if he's had an effect for bad, maybe he can have an effect for good. That's his rebirth, when he realises it's become a responsibility to others and that there is hope after all that things will get better (remember he questions whether things are getting any better at all) if he can inspire the people of the city to combat the cities, and their own individual, ills and be reborn into a brighter future.
Mr. Shapiro misses the point of this movie, completely. This movie was about him becoming Batman. The reason they call him Mr. Vengeance is because he is not Batman yet. He may put on the Cowl and beat up bad guys but he isn't a symbol of justice. Vengeance is different, vengeance is in itself evil. Batman is supposed to be above that. This Batman wasn't there yet. I don't want to get into fully breaking down all of his points, I could almost make my own video on it breaking down his review. But at the end of the day this Batman doesn't get it yet. As the Riddler said at the end of the movie " I thought you were smarter."
I like where you're coming from. I liked Batman's character arc from vengeance to being a hero and a symbol of hope. I didn't take that as being anti-crime fighting but just that he has to be more than just acting out vengeance on the evil criminals. He has to be a symbol that criminals fear but that good folks know he's got their back.
@Baronarx V Next time act like a grown-up? *They weren't talking to you* and you say "Give me a reference." to the joke that person made. And you used 'me' in a way as if you were debating that person and you're entitled to a reference or source... except they weren't talking to you... Why am I even assuming the average Ben Shabibo fan isn't 11 years old, telling people to act like a "grown-up" isn't something an actual adult would say, I would know, I'm 13... but ACtuallY I can't even imagine myself saying that, even when I was 11, you're either younger than 11 or just an immature 11(or older?) year old. aAANd I got so focused responding to your stupid comment that I wrote an entire essay
I couldn't disagree more on your take on Batman in this movie. He's not going to stop fighting criminals but he realizes he has to be more than vengeance and fear, he has to be a source of hope. Vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay. Anytime anyone else seeks revenge including the masked vigalante instead of seeking justice then the downward spiral into villainy begins because we cannot see the full picture. Appreciate a different point of view on the film but I think I liked this one as much if not more than The Dark Knight and this is the first movie I really cared about the character of Batman more than the villains of the movie that made the Nolan films so great, and that is no slight to Paul Dano or any of the other villains as they were top notch as well!
ngl batman had to be a detective batman in this film since he is obviously dealing with the riddler but idk. something rlly just didnt click w me and emo batman over here
Paul Dano's Riddler was weak and lacked agency. Batman is two-dimensional and boring. The only good scene in this movie involves a car soaring through a wall of flames. Also, Batman already was a source of hope to everybody who knew he was defeating villains.
@@laogai6292 there's not a single common person in the Nolan movies that you referenced who feared Batman. only villains. In fact, in the last half of the Dark Knight Rises, he inspires several people who have chosen inactivity to rethink their position and join the cause. Particularly John Blake (Who tells Bruce Wayne that he was inspired by him as a child), and, Officer Foley (Who then joins the protest, and gives his life in the skirmishes that follow).
7:58 Exactly! 💪🏽 I said the same thing to my friend. 😂 12:58 *Now I understand why Ben left the Batman project with Matt because Matt gave us this garbage movie.* 🤦🏽♂️
Shapiro is the kind of guy who thinks he always "gets it" and knows everything, but actually misses the point pretty often. Even explaining it to him a million times will never work.
My roommate does this a lot. He likes to try and identify the underlying themes in movies too early and ends up misinterpreting stuff. I think Ben does the same because he's a political commentator and therefore everything must be connected to politics.
but what’s the point of you want to completely reject and deconstruct the character, but won’t actually own up to it? if Batman’s meant to inspire hope and change, why does he dress like a bat and hide in the shadows?
@@Sam_T2000 the whole point of this movie is batman still learning to how to be batman. He learns he has to inspire hope by the end of the movie. Keep in mind he's only been batman for 2 years so he's still trying to figure it out
@@dg8games438 - since when has Batman ever been a symbol of hope? that’s more Superman’s kind of thing. if anything, Batman is a symbol of justice, but more than that he’s just a man willing to do the right thing in a city full of people doing the wrong thing, leading by example. he’s a hero, but he’s no savior.
@@Sam_T2000 you just said batman is meant to inspire hope and now you are saying when has he ever been a symbol of hope. And yes batman is a symbol of justice and more and this movie is him realizing that's what he has to do.
@@Sam_T2000 this batman is different from the others, he's all about vengeance and what-not. The other batmen from the past are symbols of justice. This first movie with pattinson is him learning a lesson that he needs to be more than just vengeance. I'm sure in the next pattinson batman movie we'll be seeing it
The film doesn't need to explain why Batman does what he does, because we've already had that in every single iteration of the character on the big screen.
Came to the comments to find this comment. The entire time he is talking about how "they never explained why he is batman" and "the director doesn't know, the writers don't know", I was thinking 'dude, its batman. Everyone knows why. We don't need it explained in every single reboot.'
Exactly! This was one of the things I loved most about the movie, how they didn't decide to do his entire origin again because its been done so much already. Instead the film drops us head first into surely the most gritty and dangerous part of Bruce's journey as a one man army, with crime at an all time high while Batman is still learning how to be Batman, accompanied by no outside support or plot armoured flashy gadgets. The fact that Ben saw all this as an ISSUE makes me really question his movie reviewing skills. He brought up some interesting comparisons between Dano's Riddler, John Doe and the Zodiac Killer, while also giving props to Collin Farrell who played a very convincing Penguin, but his entire analysis of Batman himself is pretty darn abysmal. We saw character growth, strong feelings of Bruce which frankly have never been explored as deeply before, and a lot of realism shown throughout the film, so I'm pretty unimpressed with this review. I'd give the film a solid 9/10.
He also explains exactly why he does what he does at the beginning with the opening dialogue he just doubts what he is doing is actually doing anything
Not everything has to be politicized. Yes, there were a few nods at “white elites” but I feel it was more of a jab at the rich parts of the city who happen to be the criminals. This is a noir film and honestly feels like we are back in the mob days. In terms of “not knowing why the Batman does what he does”, we don’t need to know. This film has no need to dive into the backstory we all know. He’s a rich guy with too much anger and rage. Becoming Batman is his escape. He simply is vengeance and nothing more. As for acting, Paul Dano was captivating. Arguably the most riveting character since Heath Ledgers Joker. Colin Farrell made the penguin intimidating. Zoe Kravitz, while not as good as Ann Hathaway, brought a simple relatability to her character and really showcased that dangerous attraction we expect from the character. Finally, Robert Pattinson was amazing. Not many actors can take a character portrayed many times over the past century, say only a few lines in 3 hours, and completely reinvent the role perfectly. This movie was groundbreaking. Setting the tone for the next DC movies without any cheesy moments. Big props to Matt Reeves for taking a campy character like the riddler and making him actually terrifying. Overall 9.5/10 for me.
I mean guys, I liked it too, but we gotta chill out with the acting like it was some perfect savior sent from the heavens. Its not perfect, there's a bunch things they could trim up, its not the first "gritty, realistic" batman, but at the end of the day, I appreciated the tone they set and enjoyed it for what it was
@@painandpyro you’re right it’s not perfect I don’t know that there’s a perfect movie period but I think it does a better job than the Nolan movies with a more grounded Batman and didn’t feel nearly as long or a slog to sit through as dark knight rises ugh talk about a movie that needed trimming.
Batman's motives are purely based on vengeance. Hence his reputation. At the end, when the Riddler tells him that he and Batman are doing the same thing and the Riddler thug who says, "I'm vengeance," makes Batman realize that his actions inspire crazies. This is the consequence of ruling through fear. Batman will still beat the shit out of criminals, but he'll be more of a symbol of hope for the people of Gotham as well. Instead of being a "nocturnal animal" who targets criminals in a nightly quest for vengeance, he'll be a symbol for Gotham. The scene at the end where he carries a wounded woman to safety and holds onto her until she's helicoptered away was a great nuanced moment of Batman realizing how his mission has to change. Expect Bruce Wayne to take a more direct role in the rebuilding of Gotham and expect that persona of Bruce Wayne, the true disguise, to be crafted throughout the next few films.
@@kylevillacorta1157 No, he learns that it's about more than just vengeance and he needs to lead by example. Instead of just being a boogeyman, he realizes that he needs to be more; he needs to be a symbol of hope.
I feel like the whole “full batman no bruce wayne” thing was answered in the movie. His goal was to be vengeance incarnate. Bruce Wayne is in no way shape or form helpful in that crusade aside from providing the monetary resources to help him as Batman achieve that goal. To him there is only Batman. I believe the batman we usually see that can live two different lives is a very emotionally experienced version of the character. The point in this movie was to show the opposite. Have you ever tried to alter your persona? I have no doubt it would be difficult. But in the end he realizes that he isn’t only needed as a symbol for vengeance, but a symbol of hope. And HOPEFULLY thats bleeds into his Bruce Wayne persona in the future with him utilizing more than just his money to drive the bat, but focussing on his political influence as well.
"You don't really know why batman is doing what he's doing": Answer: vengeance and anger. "He doesn't really do anything with his wealth" Answer: He doesn't care about it, and squanders it on his batman stuff.
For someone who claims that thinking about the film only made him angrier, he sure didn't think about the film at all.
He def did.. he 1000% right on everything he said.. I said since day 1 this movie was a wussies version of a tough guy.. they really botched this up
@@SilasPSilas88they didn’t
@@kalebmitchell6201 oh they botched it bad… if sissified girl men loved it… that tells you how shitty and crying it was for real men.. weak males like you have a idea of what tough is.. and then there’s real badass.. this movie was a joke
@@SilasPSilas88don’t know what you wanted, Batman has always been a caring, compassionate character that is rough around the edges. If your interpretation of Batman is just an angry guy who beats the shit out of people in the name of ‘justice’ but isn’t the type to do things like comfort a crying child or be able to actually relate and understand his villains on some sort of emotional level, you don’t want Batman, you want the Punisher.
@@SilasPSilas88 Sounds like you liked Batfleck, the most inaccurate version of Batman to ever appear on screen.
I would argue that Bruce Wayne isn't even in this movie. It's Batman the entire time even when he's not wearing the mask. I'm sure he'll adopt the Bruce Wayne "persona" in the next movie. This is just the beginning of his character journey.
Exactly, people miss the point when they mention Bruce Wayne barely being in the movie, that’s the whole point at this moment of him being Batman he is truly himself while being Batman not being Bruce
Well according to another TH-cam comment the director did it intentionally for that reason. Apparently we are to see how Bruce Wayne is before he adopted the Bruce Wayne persona we all know.
I myself liked how we gotta see batz as Batman majority of the time I d give it iabout 7.5 outta 10
this is year 2 and we're missing year 1 from the tv series
You from talking about politics to talking about film
Personally, I think that the lack of a distinction between Bruce Wayne and Batman is kind of the point. Bruce spends a lot of the movie so obsessed with Batman that he’s forgotten how to be Bruce Wayne.
Alfred made it very clear too
it was year 2 of him being Batman. This is not 38 year old Bruce who knows what he is doing. The film clear shows he just started out when he fails to glide in the air and obviously the lack of equipment we know him to have
I get your standpoint but I cant help but disagree. It makes sense from the standpoint that he just started, but balancing batman and Bruce Wayne has always been a massive part of the comics
It’s also basically the point of Alfred’s lectures towards him. It would be one thing if the movie didn’t address it, but I feel like they did a great job in showing us
Even the Riddler understood this
From my viewing of the film, I got the impression that instead of being motivated by Vengeance to fight crime, he now does it not for himself, but for the people around him. Turning form a person to be feared into a person who can inspire others. A beacon of hope. It's why the assault victim on the subway tells Batman not to hurt him.
You can agree or disagree with this man's politics but it warms my heart to know we can all come together to say he did a terrible job reviewing this movie lol
@@BornTwizted87 read the comments everyone’s disagreeing. People like by default
I really enjoyed the movie. Looking forward for more sequels
For me Ben being wrong or hateful towards things people love isn’t a surprise. So this is on theme.
I feel like people are assigning a lot more depth and worth to this film than it deserves. It was three hours. I felt fairly hollow in terms of getting what I wanted from these films having spent THREE HOURS in a theater.
he should stick to “debating” college kids.
I think all of us apart from Ben understood that the ending was not about Batman not fighting crime, it was about continuing to fight crime for a different reason. To fight crime not as a horrifying monster to all, but as a beacon of hope for Gotham.
He never said that the movie was about Batman not fighting crime. He's speaking about the message as it's written to relate to irl. Batman in this movie is simply the idol for that message, representing the opposite of the marxist vision.
To quote myself: "The fact that Ben's audience is too dumb to get the point of the movie is legitimately suprising me. So many folks are somehow missing the fact that Ben is talking about the marxist message that's being pushed, as it relates to irl, not about whether or not they're gonna make Batman stop being Batman. Batman in this movie is simply idol of the anti-marxist position. Both he and his dad (his dad usually being represented as a good guy who did a lot of philanthropy) are turned into evil cis white men billionare caricatures and then Batman's approach to crime is a caricature of the conservative view of dealing with crime. More importantly, this isn't the first time that this message has been pushed.
I forget the name of the comic, maybe it was Batman: Black and White or something like that (I remember it being an anthology, essentially, that was drawn in black and white), but there was a comic written not too long in black and white where one of the stories was that Bruce could do more good with his money than as Batman. Batman was drawn as a useless zombie in many situations, but in those same situations Bruce was drawn as a vibrant living man whose money could solve the problems. That's the same thing that's going on in this film. It's like a specifically anti-Nolan version of Batman, but in general it's acting (as Ben said, hating) Batman as a character, in general. Even Nolan's version was doing this, but it still respected the character."
The movie sucked Colin, Batman wouldnt throw cluster bombs and rain down glass on innocent people!
@@roughcutretrospect7235 He does stuff like that all the time in the comics
@@roughcutretrospect7235 Perhaps that's the point the movie is trying to make. Batman SHOULD care more about saving people than catching criminals, but throughout the movie that is clearly not the case, until the end when Bruce realizes that Batman has to be something more. He has to be the man who cares as much as the man who scares.
I'm reminded of the Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue" which makes the really compelling case that what makes Batman a hero isn't his money or gadgets or intimidation, but his compassion.
@@blanktrigger8863 you guys are fucking insane it’s a Batman movie dude not a conspiracy Jesus Christ
You honestly could not be more incorrect about the purpose of the film. The director does not hate Batman in any way shape or form, the movie and message behind it was brilliant. Batman went from doing what he was doing out of anger, revenge, and "vengeance" which by the end of the movie was able to grasp that he was sending the wrong message and had no chance to protect Gotham if he stayed the way he was. In no way was he saying that he would not still be fighting, targeting, or beating up criminals, he realized he had to be more intentional with it and focus on helping others not just brutally beating on criminals to ease his personal rage.
Spot on.
I think Ben Shapiro just watches Batman movies to live vicarously through. TDK Rises was peak Batman for him in this sense.
As far as Riddler's seemingly illogical motive to blow up Gotham? After shining a light on Gotham's injustices, deliberately being captured so he can be protected at Arkham while the city washes away and he can converse with Batman all the while inciting his legion to take over...it's not surprising he wants to get rid of Gotham completely. Self-righteous psychopaths seem to want to take down everyone not a part of their movement (think Timothy McVeigh). The logical intent would be that once Gotham falls into anarchy, he'd be freed by his followers and he and Batman can rule the city. The only thing I don't like about it was Riddler giving Batman hints in the Arkham scene like he's a Bond villain but I will give a slight pass in that psuedo-intellectuals like Riddler/Zodiac killer love being the smartest person in the room and his ego got the best of him. It's not a stretch to think Riddler has some...personality flaws to say the least.
Soooooo Shakespearean, sssssoooooo brilliant. Lol I dnt get why ppl give super hero movies more credit than it’s worth. It just dnt find anything entertaining about any of them. They all suck.
He definitely doesn't love Batman that much. If you have to drastically change a character there's no love their. That's just earning a paycheck.
@@thedave6153 he didn’t though. this is the most accurate live-action depiction of batman i’ve seen
@@davidbarroso1960 um. No sir. This is far from accurate.
No offense but S.K. schooled you.
YES! I JUST came from there!
more like "yes offence" lmao
I think Ben actually complimented the movie without knowing. He said there was no Bruce Wayne, there was just Batman. At the end of the movie the Riddler says something similar and points out the fact that trying to find out who Batman was was meaningless because Batman IS his true identity.
Gay
That's exactly what I was thinking! This movie had the perfect story arc in my opinion.
Bens point is just that Bruce Wayne is the character and Batman is the true person and changing that so Batman can weirdly figure out that Bruce Wayne needs be more active in Gotham is super weird and a opposite from the comics
@@nickmcmillan2511 this is exactly how I felt during the movie and really my only problem with it! It is a pretty big problem I just say, every other Batman movie “and in comics” Bruce is eccentric and the city loves him and like they say in the movie “the prince of the city” yet he doesn’t act like it at all, he’s a complete awkward loner not flashy at all nor does it seem Wayne enterprise is a very major part of the city at all. The point of Batman “acting” Bruce Wayne is that it’s supposed to seem like he’s so busy being this busy guy essentially running the city how could he possibly be Batman. But it’s like why would everyone be talking about Pattinsons Bruce Wayne when he’s always hiding away, maybe because they know it’s rare to see him which is an odd but sensual take, it’s just not the norm and movie does kind of contradict itself in that sense
I think peoples issue is no dual personas. He is batman all the time. Batman traditionally puts on a Bruce Wayne mask to hide his identity to the public. But I think this version is still too angry to care and just hasn't figured the Bruce Wayne identity out yet. There were clues alluding to it though. The main one being Alfred handing him the cuff links saying, "you still have to learn how to be a Wayne too". So I beleive he will develop that identity in the sequels which im cool with. If he never does, I won't be a fan of that aspect either.
Yeah...disagree here. Batman literally says at the end he has to become "more" than vengeance. Not throw vengeance away altogether - but add to it, so it's not just vengeance for vengeance's sake. To that, I can totally get on board with it. He's still developing and finding himself, and still hasn't mastered the duality of being both Batman/Wayne without one taking over the other completely.
This was just Ben’s bad attempt at making a movie look bad by trying to bring his political agenda into it.....😒
I don't think so the reason why bruce became batman. It was always because he wanted to be a beacon of hope. To prove that there is still good in this world and its worth saving.
Then he isn't Batman. Batman is vengence. 'I am vengence. I am the night. I AM BATMAN!!!
@@phoenixmagi2 If Batman was only vengeance then he would kill the joker without a second thought
@@jakefromstatefarm2806 nope. Batmam does not take lives. He is not a murder.
I think its about intention. He realized he was doing it for the wrong reason, then he found the right reason. He still beats up the bad guys, but instead of doing it because he hates them, he does it because he loves Gotham.
"The true soldier doesn't fight because he hates what's infront of him, but because he loves what's behind him." GK Chesterton
And how does that explain everyone in Gotham calling him Vengeance? Did the gangbanger kid go to every door and tell them the Bat guy's name is Vengeance? 🤣
The point is that outside of 2 dialogues that were there to technically check off the ideas of that, it didn't show the emotional weight or value to that realization individually.
yessss
@@RS-kt6bo dude was live streaming on his phone when he pummeled the dude
3:21 how is having three black characters in a movie *wokeness*?
I hate woke politics as much as the next guy, but it sounds like you're complaining about the fact that this movie has black people in it.
He means there are no bad black characters and everyone in the city sees all the white characters as bad guys, catwoman hates bruce and they show white polititians as corrupt and bad but the promising black candidate as the hope for the city
Because comissioner Gordon and Cat woman were historially white characters.
@@EdginLegend Commissioner Gordon has had brown hair, blonde hair, and red hair. Back when Darren Aronofsky was called up to direct a Batman movie, he nearly cast Morgan Freeman to play the role.
The character's appearance is hardly set in stone. As long as he's a gruff middle-aged man with a mustache and glasses, I don't see why there would be a problem.
As for The Cat, she was played by Eartha Kitt as early as the 60s. That said, I didn't think Zoe Kravitz was a good casting choice. She's not a good actress. But her appearance has nothing to do with my qualms about her character. She looks like Selina Kyle, just slightly more tanned than most iterations, and that's not an issue because Selina Kyle is never described as pale.
I say this as someone who absolutely hated Zoe's line about "rich white men" almost as much as I hated Disney's decision to cast a black actress as Ariel and a Hispanic actress as Snow White.
@@arthropod-doctor Right, but in the original comics, the earliest iterations of both characters were white.
@@EdginLegend Okay. And in the earliest Batman comics, Bruce had no qualms about killing or using guns. Superman was closer to a public menace than a proper hero. Green Lantern rings were powered by magic rather than a central power battery. Are you suggesting that new films should bring back those elements?
You're acting like narratives don't change and characters don't evolve. Commissioner Gordon's appearance isn't set in stone. As I already mentioned, he has also been blonde, ginger, and brunette before he was black.
It is really impressive how Ben came to the wrong conclusion on basically every single point he's making in this video and even had reasoning behind it that anyone who actually saw the movie could see right through.
Pretty good summary of his career.
Like when he said the Riddler had no reason to bomb Gotham? It was one explained in on sentence that was perfect it was to “Wash away the sins of this city”. Amazing review I love how wrong he is on everything lol
Explained in one*
Proper One Such as what? Sounds like you're just simping for the movie giving no counter argument.
@@klaythompson663 well, i do simp for Robert Pattinson, that's a fact.
But i'm just not in the mood to make a gigantic comment explaining my thoughts about the movie when there's so many people in here that disagree with him already
The ending isn't saying Batman shouldn't exist and be a shallow charity man, it's saying that Batman should look after the people he should protect after he brutally beats up their attackers, and not just disappear into the night. He should be MORE THAN VENGEANCE; he should inspire hope. Like every other superhero. This was shown throughout the movie where everyone around him is still scared shitless even after he dislocates every bone in some low life thug's body. But by the end he shows that he gives enough of a shit about Gotham by helping with rescues after he's done with his badass fight scenes.
At that point though when it’s just about helping, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to help with his resources as Bruce Wayne than as just one individual as Batman?
@@Ash-lf6to no because he still wants to instill fear on those who prey on the weak. bruce wayne can’t do that and won’t do that. only batman can.
@@Ash-lf6to pretty sure he'll do both in the next movie
But, the well is also already poisoned in a sense, gotham is so crime ridden that if he tried to donate anything it would just go to the corrupt politicians
@@Ash-lf6to because he does both. Batman/Bruce Wayne is more than just a violent vigilante. He’s the kindest human in the DC. He’s more human than any other character. It’s unfortunate that that side of him is often lost in media.
Very interesting take! I wonder though, isn't that Batman. The torn up bitter, tortured vigilanty who beats up criminals and makes them afraid to do what they do. He leaves the saved just that, saved because he can't give more than hurt the wrong doers. He's not good with care and compassion. Gotham doesn't need him to, it needs a pitbull not a love giving puppy. And where do they go from there? I think they started well, but are going in a direction to make Batman into Superman.
I'm actually glad that Ben's fans can openly disagree with his take. Non-echo chambers are refreshing.
I'm actually glad someone saw the movie I did. I thought I was the only one to see all the junk that was hidden behind a pretty sight.
yup. Ben seems to forget that Batman is literally on his 2nd year only, of course it won't resemble the batman he's used to.
@@sergiom1136 I had almost the same reaction as Ben. The longer the movie played, the less I liked it
@@emosongsandreadalongs if you didn’t compare this movie to other plot lines of Batman would you enjoy it more as an original take on the Batman?
It’s a fucking superhero movie
13:11 "Batman has to be shown the error of his ways"
That's called a character arc lol
@happy little trees 239 I disagree. I think it was very in step with Batman as a character, especially considering how early into his career he was. He’s less mature, less balanced in mind, and less calm to his approach. He’s a new Batman, young, full of rage, and less likely to pull a punch. Anyone saying that he’s not in character in this movie must’ve never heard of character growth, especially when in the Batman comics, Batman time and time again shows growth. He isn’t the perfect Batman in every single story, in fact, in many modern Batman stories, even older and largely popular Batman stories, he shows flaws, and the story and events of each comic consist of story beats that help Bruce to develop more as a man and to overcome these flaws. The story of Bruce being more vengeful and angry in the beginning of this movie, and later finding the error of his ways and seeing that rather than being a symbol of fear, he needs to be a symbol of hope, is very in line with Batman as a character. As we’ve seen in many comics before in many different ways. That’s what makes him such a special character, he shows flaws, he makes mistakes, but in the end he always finds a way to better himself or to fix his mistakes, because deep down he’s a good person. Better than many. Anyone who says that this movie wasn’t in line with Batman’s character has a misunderstanding of Batman as a character. The whole argument of “Batman is perfect and does not show flaws” just suggests that the person making the argument has a very shallow understanding of Batman, and has read very little of his material. I’d also like to point out that the movie incorporated Batman’s internal dialogue, as we see and read countless times in his comics. He’s constantly speaking to himself, and it’s often about his current predicament or current internal strife. Just goes to show more so that this movie was supposed to show the growth of Bruce as a person, and of Batman as a symbol of hope. Bruce was not always perfect, and neither was Batman, and some of his best and most famous stories have shown this. Not to mention, in Batman’s most praised live action adaptation, being the dark knight, he shows flaws. He overcomes those flaws, and in the end makes a decision based on the experiences and the events he faces in the story. Now, I agree that the good characteristics of Batman, those being his understanding of right and wrong, and justice and so on, are what makes him Batman. BUT, in saying this, you would also have to acknowledge the fact that in order to reach such a level state of mind, Batman would’ve had to experience growth to get to those values. You can’t just ignore it and say that he was always perfect, because he wasn’t, and he even very often shows that he’s not perfect, thus creating the basis for a lot of Batman’s more emotional storylines out there. I’d also say that they incorporated the riddler perfectly into this emotional growth for Bruce as well. It was a very good Batman story. The writers showed a clear understanding of what makes a Batman story so special, the emotional depth and growth of the character, and how the story would need to tie into that. By the end of the movie he clearly grows into his new shoes as Batman seeing that he needs to be better, and do better. I don’t know what more you can ask for, that’s actually just Batman. All of those values that you said make Batman what he is, he is learning in this movie. He is going through the motions he needs to to become that “perfect Batman” that everyone knows and loves.
@@DeborahChangMD this batman is trash accept it, the whole point of batman is that he is vengeance, he is not superman, he is not supposed to represent hope, that is superman, barman is supposed to be dark, and many other videos habe shown , ben isnt a movie critic but he is right about some things, but watch different reviews that say its bad , you will realize its not judt hate, i liked the movie when i saw it but yes other than music and some action its bad, and yes, bruce is supposed to give charity, the whole point is he tries to help with both his money and justice, this batman just doesnt care, he aint batman
@happy little trees 239 Batman in many of his appearances in comic was a ruthless vigilante who beat up and even murdered criminals. You think there is something okay with someone who dresses as a bat vigilante? And besides, what was there to be done in this movie? The biggest outside corruption Maroni was already apprehended and all was left was petty crimes. Organised corruption was very secret and very lowkey, to the point all officials were involved with it. There was little Batman can do against this. Or even Bruce Wayne, all this goes beyond his field.
You missed the entire point of the movie.
@@ericmagana3215 You wrote a whole nonsense essay of a comment and basically said nothing. Batman isn't vengeance. He's justice.
You're ignorant. Accept it.
@@tiaaaron3278 the batman is trash, and im not gonna explain why to you, go watch the negative reviews and thr plot holes of the movie for yourself, and then come back and tell me its good, but research first, i day this because i researched and yeah those people have a point to their critiques, thr batman is overrated as fudge
Besides the review did anyone notice that Batman inserted a syringe into himself and gave himself a boost. The “medicine” was green and reminded me of Banes serum
Yeah and it looks like it will set up for upcoming sequel that bruce will be addicted to it just like in comics and Bane will make an appearance
I figured it was just adrenaline, but a tie in to banes serum would be interesting.
Yep I was quite happy to see that, I think Robert's Batman has faced Bane before and managed to use Bane's venom for medicine purposes
@@AR-cv2fi He became addicted to it? I don't remember that at all
Duuuude! I thought the same exact thing!!
It’s interesting that Ben is basing a lot of his opinion off of the comics when it’s a relatively common storyline that when Batman first started, he wasn’t as empathetic towards anyone. Especially if we look at comic Batman over the past 15 years, his dialogue is pretty spot on with Pattinson’s portrayal, and there have been a lot of self-realization moments, similar to what happened in the movie.
Exactly! This whole video I'm saying to my self "He never read Year One"
Yes exactly it follows a lot of them very closely and a lot of what he says is not taking into account the messaging that is subtle and not obvious.
Yeah I actually loved the fact that we got to see this side of Batman, his internal struggles that helped shape who the Batman is
Well said.
That's looking at Batman comics over the past 15 years. What about before that? Is that irrelevant Batman tripe, now?
Ben Shapiro is exactly the kind of person I would expect to not like this movie
He don’t like most of things of this world
@Literal-Littoral right wingers just hate female actors speaking at all lmao
@@nh8444 there was no woke politics. Wut
@Literal-Littoral “batwoman”💀☠️
@Literal-Littoral I replied, but my comments got deleted by TH-cam. Hurray for free speech.
11:14 By that logic, Batman should be perfectly fine killing criminals since they're criminals and he's not. But he doesn't. He has to be different than the man who killed his parents. That's whole the point of the ending. He has to get Gotham hope, not just punishment.
You forget: Ben doesn't believe in Hope, just "Facts and Logic"
Well Batman isn’t really doing anything
@@RobertDownySeniortrue. That’s kinda the whole point”firefighter” comparison Ben makes. Sure he can be a symbol of hope, but that’s Superman, Batman is supposed to strike fear into ordinary criminals, that’s part of what the bat symbol in the sky is typically for. The Nolan ones are just so much better that I think he couldn’t give this one a fair shake.
I personally thought Bruce’s motivation was very clear and makes this take very unique. He starts as vengeance. He’s taking revenge on criminals because it’s the only way he can cope with the trauma of losing his idolized parents. He learns that they were flawed, and that vengeance doesn’t make him better than villains who take a similar motivation like the riddler. So he starts redirecting this motivation to help others.
I loved the movie but in terms of motivation ONLY, I agree half heartedly with Ben. i understood his motivation BUT the movie never really sells it with any dialogue or visual scenes that show or discuss why he's doing what he's doing. You sorta have to assume "his parents are dead therefore Batman vigilante". The death of his parents motivate him, but he never quite gives any dialogue that explains why he wants to emulate them in any way. Batman begins was a beautiful example of how to show Bruce's parents as real humans not just being shot, they interacted with young bruise and taught him the value of Gotham City.
@@fallen4life080 The shooter at the end literally says “ I am vengeance”, and Batman gives him a clear as day look that he is no bette than him. That’s why he goes down to help everyone, he gradually overtime goes from vengeance to a symbol of hope. At the beginning that man getting jumped was scared of him and at the end the woman couldn’t let go of his hand. He’s changing gradually, that’s why Cat Woman said “You’re already taken for”. It’s not that hard to plot together
@@Aces-qx9ln plus they don't need to show us what motivated him in becoming Batman cuz literally almost everyone knows.
@@therealone_20 exactly, I thought it was super obvious why they didn’t need to (yet again) explain who Batman was. But apparently Ben was utterly floored by this
@@Aces-qx9ln Thats not at all what I was talking about, i 100% agree with that. Bruce decides he can be better. What I'm saying is that his motivation to be Batman was only superficially teased and left to us to just already know because we know who Batman is But a movie needs to assume you don't know anything about a character and build them from scratch. Therea really only a few scenes with dialogue or visuals to show that he's making choices based on his parents deaths (vengeance) and leave it to you to hit assume that his parents motivate him. Like I get i, but the movie should sell it. Overall tho this move was A material. Great movie in my.book
If you actually listen to interviews with the Director he talks about how he drew most of his inspiration for this movie from the comics. Year One especially. Just because it isn’t a carbon copy of the previous trilogies doesn’t mean these filmmakers hate Batman….
You mean the WOKE comics. There are 2 comics out there. WOKE comics and normal comics.
@@kevinerose cry more
@@kevinerose If you think “Batman: Earth One” “The Long Halloween” “Batman: Year One” “Batman: Hush” and “Batman: Ego” (all cited as inspiration for Matt Reeves) are all “woke” comics then you’ve most likely never actually touched an actual Batman comic book in your life. identity politics have become such a factor in your life that you’re seeing “wokeness” in places where it doesn’t exist and using it as an easy excuse to dismiss anything that you don’t have any knowledge in.
@@kevinerose Last I checked Batman: Year One (the main comic series the Director based this film off of) came out in 1987.
I hate SJW garbage as much as the next person, but unless there were a ton of woke comics back in 80s I don’t know about (the era he says he based most of the movie off of comics wise) then I don’t think he hates Batman as much as Ben Shapiro thinks he does.
@@MikeSylvester1995 I've got very bad news for you; comics were ALWAYS "woke." Just look up the history of X-Men.
Discovering Bruce Wayne is basically his character arch. By the end of the movie he realizes that what Gotham really needs is a figure of hope - and so I imagine in the next movie, he’ll be crafting that Bruce Wayne persona and utilizing his money and status more to help with his agendas. I love the idea of starting here to see an evolution (throughout this movie) and then expanded in eventual sequels. Really don’t understand that complaint at all.
Something he could've done from the beginning like in the com.... Oh wait...
@@akatoshmorgul9367 I mean we’ve already seen that man. Like… 7 times. Kinda cool seeing a different take for once. And there’s plenty of comic runs where Bruce is more recluse and isolated.
@@akatoshmorgul9367 oh great, you mean the same story arc that nolan’s batman went through in his first movie. that’s great, we need to keep rehashing the same concepts because they’re “comic accurate” and it should be the only way the stories are done. This batman’s journey reflects HIS own journey, serving this film’s unique take while also not steering away from what batman fundamentally is. jesus christ you guys are so strange in wanting the same film over and over again
You understood the Batman movie completely. Thank goodness I found your comment, one of the more recent comments on this video, to be spot on and understanding of what the Batman was all about.
I like the idea of him having to find his Bruce Wayne "persona", but it didn't really work in the film for me. He just felt like a brooding edgy teenager. When he talks about how he's "not afraid to die..." as he intensely stares at Alfred through his long black hair over his face with Nirvana playing in the background I felt like rolling my eyes. Loved his Batman, but some of the dialogue/scenes when he's himself as Bruce felt a bit odd and could've been done better imo.
3:11 “Batman is shown the error of his ways”
Yeah… it’s called a character arc mr failed screenwriter.
It’s incredible how committed he is to having the worst takes
Some people are really obsessed with being different
Real hater shit lmao
He thinks he is rlly quirky for this one☝️
@@katherinehudson384 quirk up white boy
He also has a strange obsession with race
I think Ben missed the point of Batman’s revelation towards the end. The beginning of the movie shows Batman as a reclusive symbol of fear. He even mentions it at the beginning by saying when the bat signal comes out “it’s a warning”. During the first half of the movie, he almost feels a bit like a villain, a silent dark figure that comes out of the shadows engaging in brutal combat with his enemies. Even when he saves that one gentleman from the subway he begs Batman not to hurt him. Up until the asylum scene, the Riddler viewed Batman as a de facto partner. In fact, the Riddler becomes incredibly distraught when he realizes Batman is not on his side. While the Riddler obviously had a deranged perspective, in one of the first scenes, the police accuse Batman of potentially being involved in the mayor’s death so it’s clear this perspective of Batman as a villain was held by others in the city. There’s a similar feel with Bruce Wayne where’s he’s portrayed as this reclusive billionaire that does nothing to help the city even though it’s rapidly declining into chaos.
Towards the end, he realizes that the city is deeply distrustful and scared of his Batman persona whereas his Wayne persona is viewed as just another (reclusive) member of the elite. He realizes that as Batman he has to be more than a symbol of fear and as Wayne, he must be more than an eccentric recluse. I imagine in the next movie we’ll see a version of Batman that has a more cooperative relationship with the police and a version of Wayne that is more of a public figure/philanthropist.
Ben thinks bvs is good. Ben is missing his big brain on this topic
@@PrestonKnightTV
I like both movies. But yeah. Here Ben just didn't get the point at all
Ben misses the point on a lot of shit lol
This movie was bad on many accounts.
The truly breaking point is when one of the terrorists in the Garden answers to the question “who are you” by saying “vengeance”, the same term that Batman uses in the start of the movie to call himself. That’s when he realizes that with vengeance, hate and fear he won’t be able to change the city, because people need hope.
On Ben's point referring to the Nolan trilogy and Batman's reasoning and tactics; "He needs to create a theatrical sort of fear"... I don't agree they missed that with this movie; it just wasn't given a huge amount of plot time, perhaps because the main audience knows by now why and how he became The Batman, similar to why we don't see the spider bite Peter in the latest Spider-Man trilogy- it's just not so much of an origin story.
Well, to this Batman's credit, he clearly states in the first act that he can't be everywhere at the same time, so he spread the idea (fear) into the underworld that when you commit a crime, there's a chance he's already watching you from the shadows (which Gotham City is filled with)and that you could be next.
The movie emphasizes on this idea by often making him appear by stepping out of the same shadows he's referring to.
In his own words: "I am the shadows".
It was such a cool scene, with the different criminals seeing the Batsignal and then staring into the inky blackness of the dark imagining him there. That was very well done.
The problem I had with that scene is that it was my favorite part of the movie. It was absolutely perfect, but the movie never captured that tension again for me and left me wondering where that Batman was.
I agree that the best scene was hinting he could be anywhere in the darkness, but there isnt a single fight scene where he has the element of surprise or uses the darkness or uses their paranoia against them
Peter’s spider bite gives him his powers, but it’s the death of Uncle Ben that gives him his motivation. For Batman that should be his parents being killed at a botched robbery, but there was a lack of intentionality in the way this Batman goes about doing what he does, he felt aloof during the movie. They stated his motives, but needed to show it.
yea, but at the end of the movie the Batman decides to hiding in the shadows a start helping people
get air-lifted to safety… does he need a scary costume for that?
Rather a person likes the movie or not, I must applaud the fact that this is one of the worst reviews I've ever heard. I can't get my 15 minutes back but I figured at least I can leave a comment then I realized everyone felt his take was as lame as I did.
This movie was trash bro
You're almost as articulate as Ben Shapiro.
Movie literally put me to sleep
Had to turn off the movie due to boredom.
This review might be bad but it isn't honey boo boo bad...
I think you are missing the point. This movie IS the explanation of his motivation. It’s pretty much the entire point. He goes from being “vengeance” and becomes “hope.”
Think about how he literally transforms from not even telling the Asian guy at the beginning he wasn’t going to hurt him to holding someone’s hand to comfort as she goes up into the helicopter. Every time he sees a kid or Alfred in the hospital (or how much pain cat woman was in) he becomes more and more clear…not to mention the letting go of living up to his image of his father (who he finds out is human and makes mistakes) and resisting the temptation to run away with the girl to instead stay and serve the city.
We are so used to Marvel spoon feeding us origin stories that it’s hard to recognize them sometimes when they aren’t cliches.
Where are you getting that he isn’t fighting criminals anymore? I felt like he found his reason for fighting criminals. Just because he didn’t disappear when he needed help in other ways doesn’t mean he wasn’t going to kick butt in the future.
100
Bro it was boring and repetitive
Spot on.
A young Batman learns 3 major lessons in this movie.
1) He learns that *Vengeance* alone is not the answer as *Justice* should always trump it. Especially since even evil men can seek vengeance when personally wronged. This is learned in his interactions with Riddler, Catwoman, the Riddler's follower
2) He learns that those who are sworn to protect you can be the ones seeking to destroy you. He learns this in his interactions with the politicians and law enforcement agents in the city. This is why he really respects Gordon as a cop. And finally,...
3) He learns that a person can still remain a positive role model despite a bad decision in their past. This is learned in his interactions with Alfred and the discovery of what his father attempted to do to protect his wife.
Ben missed this because he was triggered by Catwoman's "white privilege" statement and Robert Pattinson's dower Bruce Wayne. I am no fan of the left's ideology of privilege but that doesn't mean accusing someone of privilege is not in Catwoman's cynical character. She would absolutely make such a statement even that one. She'd also be the type to stand with you when push comes to shove despite the initial sentiment.
As for Pattinson's Bruce, you have to consider the moments you see him among the public. This happens only three times. Once at a funeral, one time with a nurse at the hospital hearing Alfred is in critical condition and the other after hearing Riddler mark him as a victim and exposing his father which causes him to confront Carmine in person at his seedy establishment. You are not going into any of these places in those moments as a carefree billionaire playboy philanthropist. I agree with Ben that Bruce and Batman behaved the same in the film but unless you are unwilling or unable to read the room, you miss the explanation I provided. Also I think what Ben was wanting to watch was *Batman Year One.* This is a *Batman Year 3 story*; so we are watching a character whose fundamental motivations are already well underway. So of course you are not going to get much explanation as to why he put on the mask in this one. Hell he still isn't great at gliding through buildings yet but we know he has progressed far enough as Batman that he knows he will need to be able to. This film is a sequel to an origin story we don't need to see at the moment. Batman the Animated Series is in my opinion the most perfect representation of the character I have ever seen. The first episode of that story he fights Man-Bat so clearly telling Batman's story in chronological order was not going to happen.
I like Ben but he is really overreacting on this one.
"I'm vengeance" Here's your reason, that's why Bruce became Batman. The plot of the movie is not about how "batman bad" but how this particular batman motives are pretty gray. He doesn't really fight to protect the innocents, he fights to avenge his parents. The whole talk about criminals and justice is mostly just makeup. Pattinson actually talked about this in an interview, how his interpretation of the character was deeply rooted not in justice but in the idea of vengeance, how he sees in every thug he beats up those that murdered his family. Matt Reeves' batman is driven by HATRED, frustration and agression, like he is constantly living his trauma trying to rewrite history. The police and even civilians are scared of him because he is legit an absolute freak.
Megamind
they actually mentioned this in the film i believe, they said something ab him reliving it and being able to take his anger and get his revenge on the criminals he is beating to a pulp
Literally the first spoken line from Batman
Ben Shapiro: hE dOEsNT No WhY hE baTmAN
A very solid rebuttal. Well done 👌
Until the end he realizes that not saving the innocent would make him similar to the criminals so he becomes a beacon of hope.
The message I got from the ending was not that he shouldn't fight crime but that his mission needs to be bigger than just an expression of his personal rage following his parents' murder. His personal vengeancebis not s healthy or sustainable motivator for the crusade he is embarking on. The reason he must be Batman becomes protecting the innocent rather than just doing it to hurt the criminals as a proxy for Joe Chill. I accept that a vaguely 'woke' framing of some issues harmed that message such as Batman not contesting that stealing is wrong (and that is her personal vengeance because she has been wronged by powerful men) with Catwoman because the writers are clearly too immersed in that narrative that rich dudes are evil despite the fact that Batman is a rich dude who isn't.
The more I think about it, the more I think Selina's remark about "rich, white privileged assholes" was to showcase her own ignorance, as shown by the fact that she counts Bruce Wayne as one of them, having no idea that that's who she's talking to. Together with the Riddler's minions being a clear allegory of Antifa, it seems as though like Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, it's subtly very anti-Woke.
@@BarterTom I think you might be right. My problem with the line when I was watching in the theater wasn't about the wokeness so much but it momentarily pulled me out of the movie. I hate when moments do that.
@@jlane1645 It was both for me. It will date the film badly.
I think the meaning of the ending was much more simple than most people think. The whole film Batman was looking for evidence that he was helping the city. By the ending he sees that he is helping his whole city. He might not always put the crime to an absolute end, but he can always help its people. When the kid takes his hand it shows the people now trust him. And it took a kid to grab his hand for the mayor to grab it. Then he led them out of the rubble. He will lead them to the light, a better city. He will be the person on the frontlines fighting for that. He’s not asking to be their leader, just to be their defender.
Frankly I felt what would be considered right wing, conservative messaging subtly underpinning the entire film as well as more obvious yet much less consequential progressive elements. People see what they want.
The real detective ability is figuring out exactly when Ben is transitioning into his add 😂
Dang. I didn’t know it was possible to disagree with Ben this much😂
The point of the movie was not that Batman should be a pathetic firefighter. It was that he should be a symbol of hope for Gotham instead of a symbol of only fear. Remember in the train station scene (after the thugs were beat) when the guy who was gonna get beat up told Batman not to hurt him? That’s what the good people of Gotham thought of him. He was purely a symbol of fear. The best of Batman shows him as someone who defends the helpless because he cares about them. I thought the character arc was actually great. This was a really poetic and passionate movie. Ben couldn’t be more wrong about Reeves. Matt Reeves clearly loves Batman.
Exactly! I think the fact that Riddler considered them on the same side and that riddlers minion said “vengeance” was the wake up call for Batman as well.
That's exactly Shapiro's point though. The movie hates the idea of Batman and wants him to be Superman. White knight instead of dark knight. That example of the train station doesn't help - how is that guy cowering in the corner irrationally from the guy who just saved him supposed to know that Batman is now beating people up in a nice, "hopeful" way instead of vengeful? Doesn't make a bit of sense. Batman is supposed to be scary and criminals being afraid of him is supposed to be what gives people hope. The two are one and the same.
@@Arphemius that’s true, I agree Superman is more of the symbol of hope. I think you’re right, but Batman has been the hero of compassion for decades. Just watch Batman The Animated Series. He deeply cares for the people he rescues, and is simultaneously terrifying to the people of Gotham. The point of the movie is that he realizes he must be both. “Vengeance” is a morally corruptible reason to inflict violence on any society, and Batman realizes this when the goon calls himself vengeance.
@@thomasreger8621 It's true that Batman cares about innocents - he will always prioritize saving people over punishing criminals, but the point of Batman is that the two can be the same. I do actually think that the Batman that learns how to reconcile that is the core of the character, which, if the movie truly pursued that, would genuinely be good. But he'll always be more in the shadow, not a literal beacon of light leading people out of the darkness. That imagery is what's irksome, as well as the idea that punishing the wicked is somehow impossible to connect to giving people hope.
Remember Rachael smacking Bruce when he suggested revenge and justice are the same thing? Remember batman creating and identity that struck fear into the criminals but inspired hope in the people? All of it is Christopher Nolan's take on batman. Same Kool aid different flavor.
Totally respect your take on the movie and I can even understand why you would view it in the light you do but I think you missed the point the director is trying to convey. He’s been Batman for two years and crime is still up. He’s not a good business man because he routinely brushes off his BRuce Wayne responsibilities in order to further devote himself to being the bat. He loves being the bat, it’s the only time he truly feels that he is himself. But by the end of the movie he understands that in order to be the change he wants to see in Gotham, he MUST take a multi-faceted approach. This means we will now see his Bruce persona be further developed and as Batman he will not only been and enemy to the criminal elements but he will also be a symbol of hope to the innocents that even in a city corrupt as Gotham There is someone looking out for them.
I am so glad others picked up on how he must embrace multiple facets of his persona.
Exactly this. So many people would need to see him helping the civilians as Bruce Wayne to understand this sadly. Glad they didn't throw out nuance to cater for the slow types.
Batman was being too myopic in his approach, and realized he will need to tackle it from multiple angles. Not the one he’s most comfortable with.
@@allypezz It also makes sense within the plot - the money from the Wayne's renewal fund had been diverted and if Bruce were not neglecting the family's legacy, he would have noticed it sooner.
And when he held out his hand to help those in the flooded stadium and the others hesitated at first but one boy reached out and grabbed it. Then the others followed him out of he flood. That's what sealed it. This is what he has to become, a symbol, a crusader, a dark knight.
I think Ben missed the point of the movie as to the character Batman. At the beginning of the movie Batman is pure vengeance and at the end he realizes he has to be more than just vengeance. He has to be justice and a hero. That his vow to his parents is more than just punching criminals in the face. This is year two of Batman so we have to understand that Batman is just now figuring out what his purpose is for the city.
A big thing I agree with Ben about is Roberts portrayal as Batman/Bruce. Bruce was as skulky non charismatic person who ever went out or did anything. There are two or three moments in the film where ppl see Bruce and they are extremely happy to see him. Why are they happy to see him? Bale's Batman was a man of the town Roberts is not.
***spoilers*** Two of the biggest sins of this movie was not showing Bruce fixing the exploitation of his fathers city fund that the criminals were using. Not setting up the Wayne Foundation for orphans to start to fix one of the reasons why Riddler lost his mind. Granted the next movie can fix these issues but the movie was 3 hours long tie up those loose ends.
Ben shapiro missed the point of something? That’s unheard of! Completely out of character
Well, Pattinson is a cheery person off camera. So he CAN play a playboy if he’s told to if they’re going to make a sequel.
@PiffMasterG If you take Batman out of the movie, then the Riddler doesn't exist and he's just a crazy killer who kills everyone in Gotham at the end.
The originally had a 4 and a half run time so theres no telling what was cut to maybe be saved for a future film
The first thing in the movie is Bruce Wayne’s monologue about why he’s fighting crime lol
You missed the whole hour of Batman beating thugs to a pulp. It’s year 2. He’s learning.
"The Batman is a needless collage of not only better movies, but more egregiously of better Batman movies as director/co-writer Matt Reeves and co-writer Peter Craig create an utterly inferior and infuriating vision of the Dark Knight."...SPOT ON!!!
@@EMPATICO4 bro what
@@EMPATICO4 Agreed. This film is pointless and I regret that I wasted 3 hours of my life sitting uncomfortably while checking my watch every 5 min like if you’re gonna do detective stuff at least make it more interesting and batmanny smh.
@@neitherrealms3862 Or as I described it to my brother "totally forgettable".
@@neitherrealms3862 I really enjoyed the movie but at one point I started checking the time too lol
Bruce Wayne was definitely written to be obsessed with Batman. It’s made clear throughout the film and a perfect example would be when Bruce walks aggressively towards Falcone outside of the funeral and then gets stopped. When he sees his target he means business and in that scene he almost forgot to channel in Bruce Wayne.
He did it because he thought it was Selena.
He wasn't even a good Batman in that moment.
Doesn’t make it phenomenal
@@houseofmatrix6174 nobody said it is. But to say that the movie wasn't good because of these stupid reasons is reactionary and contrarian and doesn't follow any sort of rational framework at all. It was pretty comic-accurate and had interesting themes but it had flaws. It was overall a good movie.
he noticed the point, but didn't understand it, so of course he disliked it. logic.
@@TheControlBlue it's 2nd year batman, he's still growing
There's no dichotomy because there isn't one yet. This is really what would happen if Batman was only 2 years into his career. He's work-obsessed, practically living nocturnally for the last long while, and that has taken a toll on him.
That's my fave aspect. I love thst we are seeing a time where he's obsessed with being batman no time for Bruce stuff
no character development. end of story. selfish "hero"
I mean in the Nolan trilogy there is dichotomy the day he becomes Batman. The he’s only 2 years into Batman excuse is so worn out
2 YEARS TO GET THAT RIGHT!? NO IT SHOULD BE DONE IN 1
@@connorpannellfilm did you miss the part where him being selfish was a major part of his character?
every time i watch a daily wire video my brain melts
I actually really disagree with the notion that this movie was anti-Batman. See, there's been this misconception in the last several years, particularly since the DCEU's Batman became the cultural face of the character, that Batman is by default a bitter vigilante who targets criminals because he hates them, or that he's only seeking to avenge his parents' murder. His entire schtick before that was fighting crime in Gotham _for the sake of Gotham._ So that no eight year old boy would ever have to watch their parents get gunned down in front of them again. Because Thomas and Martha Wayne loved Gotham City, and practically built it, Bruce carries on that legacy and honors their memory by protecting the city and the people in it that his parents _and himself_ love so much.
TL;DR: Batman helping people get airlifted from the flooded Gotham City isn't a "Defund the Police" signal. It's a return to form.
Agreed. I think it it pretty obvious that the police are desperately needed, they also need to not be corrupt. Your point is further validated in the final dialogue for me.
I agree, loved it
Jesus Christ loves you.
I really love when people comment what I'm thinking. Its super ironic that its one of the more comic accurate batman portrayals but people keep asking wheres Bruce Wayne? You mean batman pretend personality? Who cares.
Hundred percent agree.
The lesson he learns is this
Fighting for vengeance is wrong
Fighting for the innocent is good
I think Ben overthought this one
Yep, he literally admits he must become more than Vengeance. Vengeance is great, but if not tempered by justice, it becomes tyrannical.
yeah seems like a whole lot of mental gymnastics going on, just enjoy it for what it is! not everything has to be some kind of political commentary
Agreed Ben is really stuck on the Woke thing, I didn’t notice it at all, I think he’s looking for it at this point, there’s plenty of comics that have catwoman as black, who cares if the acting is good
He basically said that 🤣 but he just added other events he didn't like
as he always does. the guy is so uptight.
I interpreted the ending as him understanding that there are two things he must accomplish as Batman. Throughout the film we see he understands that he must strike fear into Gotham’s criminals, but at the end he sees that he also must be a symbol of good for the people of Gotham. And he has to move forward and find that balance in order to truly save the city.
I thought that was quite a good arc
@@ariobahmani5618 same!
this dude is a clown . im not even american but if u guys listening to ppl like this who dont even do their research before open their big mouths then god help yall
I watched your reviews, and I know reviews are just like opinions and everyone is going to have different takes on the films. I really think you misunderstood this film, and your point with the dark knight being the best Batman film, I won’t disagree the Nolan trilogy is incredible. Those films are beautiful, I love Nolan’s work, but if you go back and really watch it - his Gotham is boring. It looks like Chicago. Which is where it’s shot I believe, the Batman really made Gotham come alive almost a character in itself. It’s dirty grungy, a lot like the Jokers Gotham. Also, the dark knight isn’t amazing because of Bales performance as Batman. It’s amazing because of Ledgers performance as the Joker. So to compare the dark knight to the Batman is not really consistent, the dark knight isn’t a Batman film. It’s a joker film. No one ever brags about how good bale was as Batman in the dark knight. Just sayin.
Nah man, this movie is great. I’m sorry. I usually agree with you, but this movie feels as though it’s pulled right out of the comic. The acting was great, the action is INCREDIBLE, and the reason he does it is because the same reason we always know for Batman. It isn’t his origin, we know Batman. It’s his second year, he hasn’t learned how to be Batman and Bruce Wayne as separate entity’s.
He should stick to shitty politics lol a movie critic he is not
@@theman44ful you are completely correct. He is looking at it from a political standpoint. This is also early Batman so he’s not as good a detective or as good a Batman. I feel like he just watched the trailers, and said “yeah I know what I’m talking about.”
And serial killers and villains don’t need a reason
@@setupred4589 seems to be bens entire way of doing things lol, look at a summary and act like you’re an expert
@@theman44ful Yeah
I loved the movie with the dark, noir, daredevil-esque feel. It’s a different take on Batman and I think it was phenomenally done. Hard to compare to Nolan’s
Yeah I strongly disagree with Bens take
I think "phenomenally" is a bit excessive. It was done, but not phenomenally done 😂. I didnt hate it, but I wanted to wash myself by watching a different batman movie.
Its not a different take , thats what batman should be : dark , noir and respectful to the audience. I like the retro designs light touch in the movie
I often times thought Charlie Cox was Batman.
it was boring and shitty tbh, don't make a fool out of yourself please
He’s doing what he’s doing because he’s young, pissed off, resentful, vengeful and full of rage. It’s not until the end that he realizes the purpose of Batman where he realizes he needs to separate the two. It shows the growing pains of Batman which I love.
Facts
The problem is that this is not explored in the script. Batman's narration is the only thing we get for an arc or exploration of this concept. Lazy writing.
@@adrianpale2342 so him cutting the wire and getting electrocuted wasn’t implicit enough?
I agree, one thing I loved about it is that we didn’t have to sit through another origin, we already know why he’s Batman because it’s been in all of the other movies
@@adrianpale2342 it's not explored in the script? There is a shot of him at the end leading civilians to safety and another shot of him bring that child to a helicopter. The theme is very much explored in the script and goes beyond the narration given.
1. Catwoman isn't always bad and is more of an anti-hero in a lot of iterations of Batman, so saying it's woke because she's of color (which honestly I don't even know if that's true it's been a while since I watched the movie) is really dumb.
2. The fact he doesn't donate to charity doesn't mean the movie is depicting him as a 'bad white man', that might be the most backwards take on this movie ever. It's like that because A. he is spending him money to quite literally FIGHT crime, and B. because he has a hard time being Bruce Wayne and separating him from Batman, which is apart of that plot that you mentioned.
this is a movie about batman going from being "vengeance," which he realized even criminals can be, to being "justice" which is a force for only good. It was a movie where batman had character development, so I liked it alot!
Vengeance to Hope
i must have slept through that part
@@karlsylvain or lacked the iq
@@roddur1000 or didn't care
@@karlsylvain increase your IQ first
I loved the fact that "Bruce Wayne" is the mysterious character and not "Batman". An interesting reversal.
That's not new though. "Batman" being the real Bruce Wayne and "Bruce Wayne" being the mask he puts on is a concept that has been out there for decades.
I mean this is what the Nolan films did. The Bruce Wayne public figure is a character precisely created to protect Batman's secret identity. In this movie this concept is completely lacking. Perfectly reasonable for fans to not like that.
@@TheJotaroKujo i throughout these decades Bruce Wayne has been more of a robot than an actual human, which is very close to source material
@@TheJotaroKujo this movie isn’t Batman and Bruce separated. This is Bruce not being Bruce at all. It starts off with him never leaving at all. He says he’s becoming nocturnal. He’s pale. The sun hurts his eyes. He’s reminded by Alfred that he needs to STILL BE Bruce. He doesn’t want to be Bruce. He doesn’t know how. That’s why he seems like Batman when he’s out.
@@TheJotaroKujo no I think they mean like, Bruce isn't out there, he doesn't really have a public persona, when he shows up places people are like "holy shit its Bruce Wayne" because he's just a little quiet hermit boy who doesn't seem to engage at all with the powerful people of the city that previous versions of him made a point to. Whereas his batman seems to be out every night, strolls onto crime scenes, people don't even seem surprised when he shows up. seems like most of the Batman's I remember, Bruce is a well-known public figure who people think they know, and The Batman is a mysterious figure everyone is entranced by. in this its the opposite, the batman is feared by the underworld but he's kind of regarded as a staple sort of presence, while Bruce Wayne is the one that people seem shocked to see and whisper about. other versions of Bruce would talk to the same people during the day and night, just as a completely different person which other people were unaware of, which causes emotional tension for sure. but in this one I actually really loved that when he showed up at the funeral the people he talks to in the night just kind of pointed him out or shrugged their shoulders at him. its a way different dynamic than what your used to, but I liked it. And that's why some people felt he's the same the whole way through, its because the real Bruce was always like this. the batman is his real personality, the "Bruce" he presented to the public was always an alter ego, in this movie he hasn't created that alter ego yet.
@@TheJotaroKujo that’s not even what the guy said.
The score isn’t derivative, it’s more reminiscent than anything. You can instantly tell it’s a Batman theme, so yes it would have to kind of sound like the themes that came before it
It is derivative. It sounds almost exactly the empire’s march from star wars but missing a few bars. You can’t un-hear it bro. When you watch it again you’ll see.
aside from the main theme, I found it to be extremely generic and not memorable. didn't bother me though
@@brunovaz Don’t tell me you can’t remember the theme in your head right now😂it’s a pretty simple theme that is quite effective in the film, but whatever you say
@@Chillo56 I meant that the theme is very memorable, everything else isn't
@@Chillo56 By theme I mean this
th-cam.com/video/JMbEpzMR0fs/w-d-xo.html
I have to agree with Ben on this. I didn’t hate this movie, but it is the only Batman movie that I could only watch once. I even was able to watch the Clooney and Kilmer versions several times. It held my attention just enough to sit through it once. I can’t say that I hated Pattinson in the role, but he definitely doesn’t fit. I will say that Colin Farrell was outstanding. I’m hoping that this will be a one off movie and that they move on. I will say on a second issue that I hated the Joker, I couldn’t even get through the movie, and I have tried three times to do so. For me, I would have loved to see Ray Stevenson play an aged Batman, before he passed away. The graphic novel “The Dark Knight Returns “ would have made a phenomenal film adaptation. I can’t imagine who would be able to portray the role other than the late great Stevenson.
i think your missing the point, the conclusion of the movie isnt that batman shouldn't be directly fighting criminals like what he has for as long as we know his character, its just that he realizes what being BATMAN is all about. He still will directly fight and confront criminals, and strike fear in the hearts of those who commits a crime, but he can't be JUST that. He needs to do more (this time as the billionaire bruce wayne). the point that its trying to make, is batman in the majority of this movie doesn't represent the TRUE "BATMAN" character, he hasn't developed into that yet. Because even in the comics, fighting criminals isnt the only thing batman does, he literally uses his wealth to actually develop his surroundings (whether it be gotham or the world in general)
Totally agree! He also talks about how Bruce Wayne was just Batman without wearing the mask and there wasn't a distinction and how Bruce did no charity or philanthropy work. This movie obviously takes place when Batman is young and very new to Gotham. The Police call him a freak, the criminals in the beginning laugh at him, and Bruce is still angry over his parents death and wants vengeance. I think the next movies are going to have huge character development for both Bruce Wayne and Batman and it will make sense why in this movie Bruce is kind of broken. This movie had Batman make his first step from fighting crime out of anger and vengeance, to fighting crime to help others and be a beacon of hope.
You’re*
@@calendarfactory8566 bruh
@@chrism.r4243 hehehaha
Exactly...its a constant learning process...he learns that some doors could be opened a lot easier as Bruce Wayne. For eg- Going to see Falcone as Bruce Wayne .
He doesn't learn that being Batman is bad. He needs to reconsider his methods of being Batman, and by the end of the movie understands that by exclusively beating up criminals is not going to help the city, but by protecting the innocent, he could make a real difference. When the riddler thug says that he is vengeance, it makes Batman realize that he is essentially no different than the riddler, and needs to be better than that.
And yeah, this movie is 3 hours long, but that's because it takes the time to hold on some shots and allowed for way better impact and emotion from the characters (and mainly Batman).
(Edit: When I say protecting the innocent, I mean that he also needs to give them hope. When he saves the man from the gang at the beginning, the man is still afraid even after being saved. Batman realizes that he needs to be a symbol of hope to the people, while still instilling fear into criminals.)
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. I think Ben is WAY wrong on this one. The movie was phenomenal. Good enough for me to stomach the 5 seconds of wokeness even! Unlike Rise of Skywalker.
How would he go about protecting the innocent? Oh yeah, beating up bad guys...
Batman is ninja, what the film is trying to do is make batman fill the role of superman, they even spit the word "hope" few minutes into the ending LMFAO
Isn't beating up criminals protecting innocents anyways?
Like the asian dude
In terms of the vengeance aspect, Batman realizes that just punishing criminals isn't enough. In the beginning of the film, when the street gang corners the guy in the train station, Batman intervenes NOT to save and help the guy, but to punish the gang. This clearly shows when the guy says "dont hurt me" and batman doesnt even react. This whole time, his mission has been to punish criminals, not save innocent people from them. By the end of the film, he realizes that he should make an active effort in saving and helping people, as it will give them hope which is more effective than just fighting crime for the sole purpose of punishing criminals
Yeah idk why Ben think this is a superman ripoff. Bruce always wanted to protect Gotham. YES he wants to punish criminals but he also cares about the city. In terms of being a beacon of "hope" I can understand why Ben would say what he said, but I don't think HOPE is batmans actual goal even though that's what he said in the movie
God bless
That's not Batman he's not beacon of hope he's a deterrent that's the whole point of Batman.
And that's the Ben's point. Batman should be like Judge Dredd, but with money and no law degree.
Just to follow up on my initial comment: the whole reason why bruce wayne become batman (in general batman mythos) is so that no child would ever have to experience what he experienced. It was NOT so that all the people that were like the mugger that killed his parents would be punished. but thats his mentality at the beginnnig of the film. He sees a guy about to get beat up and hes like "'oh you wanna beat people up, let me do it to you first" not "damn that guys in danger, let me help him by taking down those thugs"
*ONE OF THE FEW BATMAN REVIEWS THAT WASNT BIASED I LUV THIS REVIEW !!!!!!!!!*
For comedy, I like Adam West. Good middle ground, Michael Keaton. Darkness, Christian Bale. ✝ But I really have no desire to see this one.
I actually appreciated the fact that they didn't try to explain why Batman has to be Batman, we've all heard it before and everybody watching the film already knows about Batman's origins. Rehashing it over and over with every new movie is annoying and keeps us from seeing all of the other really awesome parts of the story that happen later in his career.
I think they coulda fit it in there and it made Batman a lot more 2d
Yeah but a simple line would have done. Also got to remember that the movie has to stand on its own. So not having it at all is a little weird
@@CoolMyron fair enough
They actually told the story. Just in pieces through out the film.
@@dylanlucas3397 no, it’s not fair. And your original comment is correct. They did the same thing w/the new spider man. And that was fine too.
Ben Shapiro is the kid who says "gun beats everything" in rock paper scissors.
ahahahah
And it does if you let it.
was*
@@LeylaSKDR 7
Honestly, Ben Shapiro props himself up as a genius. The only genius I actually believe in is Einstein. Einstein was a true genius.
The more I thought of "emo" Wayne the more I liked it. He's out in the night every night and like he said he's become a "nocturnal creature". It wouldn't make sense if he doesn't look like an introvert. I'm looking forward to the next movie. I'd like to see character development for Bruce. His Batman to me was fine. He's in his early stages of being Batman so it makes sense that he isn't BATMAN. In the next movie I'd like to see him develop better Fear tactics and not see so much of him.
Seeing the same old Batman would have been a waste. If I want that I would just re watch the others. This Batman hadn’t yet made it through the “5 stages of grief” he was messed up and hadn’t healed yet. We all know the origin story already. If he was that messed up as Batman full of anger and self loathing, how could he be anything different as Bruce. He needs time to heal and grow, and there are signs of that happening at the end.
Bully Pattinson
@@kathleenmeehan1359 Well said! I could not agree more.
Well this friend of mine is planning to watch it "when soon there's a pirated copy" he said. LOL
4:35 aparrently it is explained bruce is doing this for himself but in the end he understands there is more to it
P.S. to some in the comments: The film kept calling Batman “vengeance” to poke at his greenness as a vigilante. It has nothing to do with the actual committing of vengeful acts, but instead everything to do with not striking that fear in Gotham’s underbelly just yet; an information war of sorts, which is why I’m actually pretty surprised Ben doesn’t like this story. It was pretty clearly established in the beginning that Batman liked telling that “I am vengeance” line (or something similar) to the criminals he busted up based on his delivery alone. I mean, think about it-in some 5 hour version of the movie (lol) that was probably a front page headline on at least one edition of the Gotham Gazette by that point-and maybe by no coincidence, since I seem to remember the trailers effectively establishing that quote as a *real-world* meme over the year prior to release, but I digress. The filmmakers obviously wanted to be more subtle about the themes here and let the audience figure it out for themselves, which through other clues made it become more obvious through the course of the story.
Ben, you’re missing the point-Batman didn’t just get good at catching criminals overnight. He didn’t just put on the cape and cowl and become the “world’s greatest detective” out of nowhere, because there’s just no payoff in that. It was refreshing to see a plot where Batman makes mistakes so that he can _learn_ from them and grow as the series progresses. *That’s good character development*. Especially considering the timeline: this film takes place after just a year or so of crime fighting, so it would be a waste for those growing pains not to take place. This is good storytelling 101, so I hope you’ll consider giving it another watch with all this in mind.
What mistakes did Batman make? Citation needed.
@@ownthelibs several key mistakes when trying to solve the riddles, failure to actually stop the Riddler’s plans, the whole idea of batman as an embodiment of vengeance was a mistake as he learns in the end of the movie, as well as many more small things. Batman in this movie is really raw and unlearned in the matter of being a good batman, which is intentional and serves the plot extremely well.
@@headedbeefer1511 notice u didn’t actually cite anything. Failing to do something is making a mistake. What specific mistake did he do that made him fail? And using the word vengeance without doing anything vengeful was a stupid plot trick. He didn’t do one thing vengeful the entire movie but we’re supposed to pretend he did because they use the word..
@@ownthelibs both Batman and Gordon thought penguin was the rat and it turns out that the Spanish grammar wasn’t correct on purpose and so Batman was incorrect to chase penguin on the highway.
@@masonobmascik9730 sorry he wasn’t a perfect detective lol. That clue was awful btw
Disagree wholeheartedly. The point is that Bruce can't save his city just by instilling fear in criminals or by using violence alone. He realizes what he's been doing not only isn't working, but also backfired and created a new breed of criminals. He realizes that what the city needs is a beacon of hope. This is a batman that is still coming into his role and learning how to be what his city needs. I love this movie. While it could've cut at least 15-20 minutes about 2/3 into the movie, it's still a well-made movie, a great callback to the older crime thrillers. The so-called wokeness is also so minimal it barely registers unless you're splitting hair. The race swapping doesn't matter, for those actors all did a wonderful job.
Edit: P.S. To those who say Supes is the beacon of hope, not Batman...sigh, Bats and Supes are called World's Finest for a reason. They are two sides of the same bloody coin. It just says a lot about Gotham that the city's beacon is someone like Batman. Yes, he's darker, broodier, angrier, more violent. He beats criminals up at night, but he's also saving people and inspiring others to do good (i.e. the Batfamily). At his core, the Bat is motivated by kindness, a desire to help, and his faith in humanity and redemption.
Exactly, I think a point very early in the movie shows this idea perfectly. When Batman saves the man on train. The man is just as scared as the criminals, which gives Batman a glimpse as to what he’s doing wrong in his approach.
well said
Exactly. This was a very very good film. I don't get why Ben's crying over the 'wokeness' bringing politics into fiction and all. Zoe Kravitz did a great job and if this feels woke to him then perhaps movies should be only white so it doesn't feel 'forced'.
But the symbol of hope is Superman 😂. And batman is yin to Superman's yang. Anyways the movie was decent, no big issues.
@@aakashsingh4422 Batman learns from Superman that he doesn't always need to rely on fear and violence. It's a pretty common piece of character development for batman that the movie handles really well, and Ben Shapiro completely whiffs on because he only cares about "woke" culture politics. Ben Shapiro is getting way too hard to sound smart.
"This is my family's legacy." Right there we found out why he takes the mantle of Batman, Ben. He literally says it.
Great point
@@lewisherron6842 Hey thanks man, it's funny I don't normally like Ben but even though he missed the point of the movie he is aware of some details I wasn't privy to.
That is not a reason, and he doesn’t even recognize this until way way way into the movie when it is pointed out by someone
@@edgy22 he says it the first time we saw Alfred, which was pretty early in the movie.
The family legacy was not crime fighting vigilante? The family legacy was pretty much a rich political career, so what are you talking about?
I’ve always hated Ben Shapiro- for context I’ve always been a NYC liberal, even last election voted left (that’s when I just stopped caring about politics) but will never ever like Ben Shapiro or ANYTHING right related. Hand to God.
However, he is absolutely correct in every aspect, in fact I feel like he held back. As a die hard true Batman lore fan and knowing for decades what makes him special and I watched this movie w no reviews or trailers - nothing, I wanted to make sure like I do w all movies I go into its w a clear head. So when I watched this I was horrified to see the way they deconstructed his base and main character in addition throw politics in the movie cause that’s not why I watch movies like this , I watch them to escape politics not it shoving it in my face. But ok even so they have duped Batman fans into thinking this is the best Batman adaptation ever via styles and beautiful visuals and I was surprised NO ONE noticed that they shat on Batman, deconstructed his lore by making Wayne family “evil” and the point to show us that Batman deals with crime via only his fists. Anyone that is a true Batman fan knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that BW has time and time again not just dontated money to the city but created fkn free clinics in the slums of Gotham for no other reason then those in the pits of the can get FREE medical care, and not by some underpaid janky MDS but by the same fkn doctor that literally treats Batman/BW whenever he gets serious injuries. I mean I can list so much more and someone who is a fan of this hero should know this already . In fact they make him look like a doof, he doesn’t solve anything, he didn’t really prevent anything and all he cared about was if the Riddler knew his identity in the end. And for selfish reasons. It betrayed the lore, the point and most importantly the character himself. And the movie is like an amazing magic trick that it pulls on you due to the cinematic beauty it’s shot in with the score etc that you don’t even realize like they just crapped on everything that is Batman.
Look when I was watching it the first 40 minutes I was like wow this is amazing and then slowly I was like wait what? Rob hedge funds ? Give money to the city? Telling Alfred to fuck off in every scene even when the man’s body was halfway burned and in ICU because the “greatest detective “ kinda got him there in the first place .
I promise I am not pretending about my political affiliation and beliefs. They will probably stay w me (although not as “passionate “) for the remainder of my life. But the fact that Ben Shapiro is the only one who pointed this shit out kinda almost makes me wanna switch sides, jk will never! But as a Batman fan that has for decades read soooooo many comics and watched ALL the animated shows and movies about him and DC along with the live movies I mean you cannot be a Batman fanboy or girl in my case and not see how they just clowned on our favorite superhero. In fact, us Batman fans, I get it you watched it once and it was stunning and it legit tricked you into thinking it’s a masterpiece but I beg you to watch it again after you have rewatched some older animated movies and shows if you don’t want to hop in the comics again. If you watch it again you will see what I I see and apparently that only FKN Ben Shapiro was able to spot is NOT a Batman movie, in fact I promise on your next watch or more if you want to really make yourself angry you will be infuriated.
I leave the real world of politics etc to watch these movies and I don’t want them in these movies cause if i did idk I would go and re watch House Of Cards again or some other Trump sucks documentary but don’t put this shit in my movies! And truly the race thing to me idc about and that’s when I know someone is just a racist asshole by THAT being their biggest problem w the movie. They made Batman a doof and had to even shit on the Wayne Legacy (like why? I know the world is filled with horrible billionaires! Can’t I have ONE fake one that is good) They took a dump on the whole world of Batman and I promise you this is just the beginning. Part 2 will be some garbage of Batman gives away his whole fortune to the wholesome politician mayor and stands by the side lines and helps here and there but mostly beats up cops. Idk but I think this was just the tip of the iceberg to see how much the audience will swallow and before you know it 10 years from now we won’t even have a Batman be just unisex BW handing out never ending cash to a mayor that says nice things in public.
It’s the sheer stupidity and I’m angry I got duped when I first saw it but even though it felt off but I was bedazzled by the cinematic beauty of it. And you know what until this film I didn’t even know that was possible. I only know now it is as someone who has known the consistent character of Batman in almost everything that a beautifully visual film w the right score can totally be a garbage movie.
Now i feel like I have to re watch all these other “masterpieces “ I’ve ever seen to see how often does this bait and switch happen.
Imma say it and this is shit I NEVER thought I would say or write.
Solid Job Ben Shapiro for pointing out what this “movie” really was. Deceptive in making us enjoy the deconstructing of a character Batman fans love.
And no I am NOT a Snydervese fan either . Like at all. But he never hid it. I mean the dude loudly said if you don’t think your superhero’s don’t kill then you are delusional. I mean it then defeats being a fkn superhero and he is an idiot and his movies were some poser shit as well! But he never deceptively masqueraded it and made Batman a fkn moronic imp.
Argh sorry. I had to get this out and I can’t even believe the only place i could was on Ben fkn Shapiros channel of all places .
no one fucking cares
@@hazardbros2841some people like reading more then one or two sentences.
@@JCTBomb than*
@@hazardbros2841 thanks
@@JCTBomb 👍🏿
I'm certain that no one's gonna read this but I strongly disagree with Ben here.
As a film noir the message of the film is to show that the main character is as messed up as the city is and that only by changing his view on the city and himself (from vengeance driven to hope) is the only way to redeem the city. It's the motive behind the actions not the actions them shelves that need redefining. I though the film was great and that Ben's politic views stopped him from having a good time.
I read it, I also highly agree. Ben had to keep his narrative going for views, it’s his living , he’s playing a character that makes his profits of constantly criticizing everything I’m site, while it can be entertaining, I’d rather live in a world where people like him aren’t given the juice to drive in the first place. He’s just so negative
He's offended by the amount of positive black characters and his rich "white elite status"
THANK YOU!!!
@@jmaurice72 yes I think you’re right. he’s offended by it but he’s passive aggressively trying to seem like he’s not offended by it.
100% agree. He’s misinterpreting the message.
The more I listen to Ben's movie reviews, the more I am shocked by his sheer inability to understand subtext. Batman's arc in this film is not him coming to the conclusion that he shouldn't fight criminals; it's him coming to the conclusion that he shouldn't brutally beat them up and obliterate their bones. That he should function as Gotham's protector and savior, a symbol for justice; not a relentless beast that stands for vengeance. They nailed the character here, really showing the inner scared child that he carries around, full of grief and pain and rage. The point of the movie is to show him giving closure to his trauma.
Yes but he was already a symbol for justice. Vengeance is justice. What do you think the characters in Batman Begins thought he was going around carrying civilians and handing out flowers? People already knew Batman was a good guy they don’t need to see him in broad daylight.
@@cydra_infinity1423 Vengeance for vengeance's sake is not justice. Thinking that this film's ending implies that Batman will become a hippie pacifist is missing the point in a gargantuan way. He will still lurk in the shadows and beat up bad guys, but with the purpose of protecting the people of Gotham, not on a brutal rampage to relieve his own pain.
This is the same thing when it comes to Man Of Steel...ppl shat'd on that movie without understanding that Superman in that movie hasn't become the Superman we all know yet
Batman hardly beat up anyone in this movie. 2 scenes at most did he give a brutal beating , and 1 of those scenes is when he injected himself with adrenaline.
@@cydra_infinity1423 but obviously this city didn't know what to view him as yet.
Imagine being so poisoned by the culture war that you can't allow yourself to enjoy a truly great Batman film.
Well they acknowledged there are also systemic problems in the world as well and punching crime in the face might not always be the answer.
What was he supposed to do, enjoy the film or something?
It's not a great batman movie, it's a basic detective plot movie. Hardly any batman badassery
@@Not.afitnesspro there was plenty of Batman punching the shit out of people to take a break from the mystery. I think it's shy of excellence but it is great.
@@Not.afitnesspro I will disagree on the point about the badassery,
I saw the film in 4dx anytime Batman did something the seats and effects came to life, it happened a lot.
I was happy with the level of badassery.
And regarding it being a detective story, there have been many Batman fans who wanted a dedicated detective plot.
I appreciated the film noir style and the tone the movie generated.
@@Not.afitnesspro oh wow Batman being a detective, who would’ve expected that
« It’s not explained why he’s doing it »…it’s literally said in the first few minutes. This movie 💯% LOVES Batman.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t disagree more with this take.
ben shaperio, whats new
What was the reason for the random seawall bombing then? Bens correct about that part... The Riddler was done and completed his mission 100%. There was no reason for him to do that at all...
@merv dubya the riddler did it so that all of the politicians would be lured into one location for the riddlers goons to take out
@@morpusflorpus5729 But he had already taken out the corrupt mayor, DA, cops, and Falcone himself. I guess he failed killing Bruce Wayne but he didn't really matter. The new mayor was a good mayor I thought? The Riddler just wanted to take down those corrupt officials in that specific plot. The goons and city flood was just fluff for something to do and faceless bad guys to fight.
I'd argue it's actually very fortunate. That means you actually payed attention to the film. Not saying people can't like it but it's the reasons Ben didn't like it that make it obvious he wasn't paying attention
Hey man, this is a horrendous take. This films didn't remotely hate batman.
Right? I’m thinking to myself what tf is he talking about? This is the best interpretation of Batman I’ve seen in a long time. Not perfect, but it leaves room for character growth.
@@joecyr5836 I think it being less than perfect kind of mirrors Bruce Wayne's journey to being the Batman we all know and love.
@@mainstreetsaint36 Exactly! I think it’s excellent character development and story telling.
All the issues he had with the film were silly. "The film doesn't explain why he became Batman" then he rambles about how Batman Begins explained it...even though it's the exact same thing here. Being a symbol of fear for his enemies. This is a year 2 story. We don't need to know why he became Batrman...we already know why. "The film is saying Batman should be a firefighter. He is never Bruce Wayne...only Batman": The film shows that by him just being a symbol of fear. He is scaring the people he wants to save. I think the next film will totally be about him developing his "Bruce Wayne" persona, and I can't wait!.
Ben has kind of gone of the deepend here a little bit because even for the Catwoman scene which she said white previliage it was a throw way line and someone from her socio economic background would say. It's not about being "woke" it's about characterization. Also as for the director hating Batman, I am shocked at that statement because at the end of the movie Batman even says he wants to the ideal that is mentioned in the Nolan movies, so I feel like the word "woke" is just thrown around without real reason. This was a character study of Batman.
He said he didn't have a problem with the wokeness of the movie. He had a problem with how the directors seemed to dislike the concept of batman.
Ben’s easily triggered lol
@@gofish7388 What wokeness? What the Catwoman said is just part of the character as Sharan points out. So Ben is reading too much culture war politics into this... 🙄🙄
Definitely a throw away line
@@fahimp3 Yep I agree. Catwoman is a character that is cynical and would absolutely say such a thing even if she doesn't truly believe it deep down. If she didn't say "white privilege", she still would have been the type to call him "privileged". I hate the leftwing's notion of "privilege", but I would be lying if I said it's not a consistent character trait of hers to write a person off as a certain type and then not stick with them when push comes to shove despite the initial sentiment. It's why she is easily the villain Batman tolerates the most. Deep down she doesn't believe there is no hope in people. Especially after meeting the Batman. Ben got triggered and is overreacting.
Im late to comment.. but I just watched the movie..
But .. I think alot of people are truly missing what Bruce Wayne is .. he is mentally disturbed, like his mother.. Billionaire that dresses up like a Bat and fights crime because his parents were murdered… Bruce Wayne is Batman.. Batman is Bruce Wayne .. one and the same .. they do not substitute.. or separate
In this movie.. he transformed from Vengeance to Protector
To totally different things..
I was happy to see the detective Batman…
I think this is a great direction…
I do like Bens politics…
But honestly he read way to much in this movie
He pulled stuff out that he shouldn’t have ….
The Batman is evolving… more than a mentally unstable billionaire…seeking his parent’s killer.. but now a mentally unstable detective that is attempting to return justice to Gotham …
Also this movie revealed his mother also fought demons and suffered with mental illness
Ben, you do understand he isn't exactly "Batman" yet right? The entire premise of the film is him becoming that character. He's young and learning, hence why he isn't completely calculated and elegant. Instead, he's full of rage, willing to punch his way through problems instead of dealing with them a different way. You way miscalculated on this take Chief. This is the most comic accurate Batman we have seen in years, and DC/Warnerbros FINALLY did the character *justice.*
EXACTLY
Why do everybody have understand. If it’s masterpiece everybody should love it.it wasnt a masterpiece
THIS!!! Obviously the storyline is about how he matures into Batman. Pretty sure when the 2nd movie comes out we can finally connect the dots.
@@houseofmatrix6174 what?
@@houseofmatrix6174 nobody said it’s “masterpiece”, yes it has some flaws (it was too long). BUT Ben’s take on the movie is totally wrong lol. It’s the most accurate real life portrayal of Batman we have had on screen.
I think Ben actually missed the Central point of this movie. Batman is just vengeance to begin with. He’s cynical. He’s angry. He’s not as caring for the victims as we have come to expect. But at the end of the movie, he realizes he needs to become more than vengeance. The scene at the end with him leading the people out of the flooded stadium is a beautiful visual representation of this. This movie is clearly setting a redemption arc for Batman. I found this concept and the detective Batman version fresh and interesting, despite some woke fodder.
Yea literally the worse part was that one line from catwoman other then that it was pretty good.
I think u missed the central point there bug lmao lol yr dumby whatchu smokin?
I thought that scene was incredibly cheesy but to each their own. The actual realization point that could have the "goosebump" effect was "Who the hell are you? - Me? I'm vengeance". That is the scene. Not the flood scene. I think both scenes are very much on the nose and did not touch me at all. But, again, to each their own.
The movie was good then gradually became bad, the pacing was off and they threw away the artsy style from the beginning to a more mainstream cliche and cheesy style as it continued on.
I enjoyed the movie. However I don't see the "lefty" stuff everyone is talking about. The car chase was my favorite part and I thought the theme that he is pure vengeance without regard for what that could mean is an interesting twist. I am looking forward to where they go from here.
Ben, when Batman saves the people at the end it’s because they need to be saved and ALL OF THE BAD GUYS ARE DEFEATED at that point. It’s not like he becomes anti-fighting bad guys all of a sudden its just that he learns that he doesn’t have to be vengeance but can be truly heroic. I don’t even like his movie that’s much but you completely misunderstood the ending lol
No he didn’t. The movie ends with Batman becoming a hopeful character not one that is simply principle. That’s not Batman, that’s Superman’s moral framework
@@mjh277 batman is much more of a complex character than "simply principle". And batman has been a dark symbol of hope this isn't new. Superman and batman can both inspire hope and go about their heroics in different ways. That's why they're called the 'worlds finest'. I guess superman has a monopoly on "hopeful moral framework". Any superhero that inspires hope is now superman now too?
@@evanderlugops Batman's 'goodness' comes from his principles, his principles which the movie does imply are wrong and need to be repented of.
Superman becomes the inspiration of hope, an ideal, something to inspire, a leader. Batman isn't that and never has been that. It's why in the justice League show when superman 'dies' he gives that passionate speech at Supes grave about different philosophies.
And no Superman isn't the only hopeful character but it is a defining trait of him and one of the main criticisms of Snyder's superman tbh.
@@evanderlugops world's finest is just because he's the best and it's a carry over from the silver era which is a very different batman all together
@@mjh277 doesn't really matter how it originated. They are still referred to that to this day. Reference or not. They are comics most iconic duo and are different to each other but similar.
I agree with everything you said
The suit looks good and Pattinson is a good actor. I wish there was a difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman like in Batman begins but there isnt
Humm... I think this review proves exactly what the movie is trying to do. The fact that Bruce/Batman is trying to figure things out and the fact that in the sequels, he would still keep beating up criminals but then Bruce would have to become a philanthropist, sort of fighting the battle on both fronts and not just in the dark as vengeance. I think this is concluding too fast. I think you'll look back after subsequent sequels and appreciate this installment.
I had the same thought. overall it's not my favorite batman film but I believe Matt Reeves has an arc in mind for this particular Batman in which other installments will show his growth and fulfillment of the purpose he discovered in this film. this is only the beginning.
@@Ashley-xd9ik Exactly
just like the spiderman ffh series. its a new reinvention of the character and look at people's opinion on toms spiderman after the 3rd film. they love him
He won't because he is as bad as a critic as he is as a writer
@Slash and Trash this sets up the early Batman, he's new to all this. And by the end of the movie, he becomes the Batman we all know and love, it's a perfect origin story.
Ben is kind of missing the point. This is the first movie in the trilogy and they are setting up a character arc. This is still a very young Batman and we see him evolve at the end of the movie
I mean, I figured his turn to “hope” at the end wasn’t “I just help people now.” It’s him deciding he has to do more to keep the city alive, fight the crime, help the innocents. At the start of the movie he saves the Asian dude, then leaves. Now he beats up the riddler goons, then he leads the people
The problem with the move is that they play a word game with vengeance.. they pretend by using the word vengeance that Batman is committing vengeance, when he doesn’t actually do it one time. The whole “he needs to be a beacon of hope instead of just being a beacon of fear” is a good idea, but it has nothing to with vengeance. Which is what makes Ben mad. They make it seem like fighting criminals is “vengeance”
Is he supposed to stay there and console the person he saved, put them into therapy? Walk them to their house? Make sure they get a good nights rest? As long as he makes sure they are out of immediate danger and don't need to go to the hospital, that is fine. Batman is a crime fighter, he isn't a therapist/social worker.
@@ownthelibs he sees every thug and criminal as the same scum that killed his parents, therefore, it is vengance.
@@ownthelibs not once did i feel that
@Bad Boys Boogie Batman helps people that are in immediate danger or are being used by criminals in organized crime or his rogues gallery. He is not a social worker that goes to therapy with them, helps old women walk across the street, or get cats out of trees.
When you have poltical brain stain, you cant see past it. Its actually sad.
I often hate Ben’s movie takes and this is no different. This movie is a masterpiece!
Lmao totally agree man
For real..this man clearly has no real taste in cinema..this is easily up there with The Dark Knight..I personally like it more
It really wasn't
@@mikeshadez we obviously didn’t watch the same film
@@mikeshadez It was very good.
This guy is the reason we have movies that explain each and every incident making the audience look like fools
Yeah it's like he is uncapable of thinking.
Still was trash. They should’ve focused on the detective part and riddler motives. To many trash sub plots.
Great comment
@@randomlygeneratedname7171 How was it "trash"....? One of the best movies in a LONG time.... And please dont make it about politics...
@@KmartShopper471 the movie sucks, I just wasted 3 hours of my time watching that crap, sorry, it was 2 1/2 hour for I slept for 30 minutes.
I think the end scene when he’s leading the people out of the water is also symbolism for Batman leading the people of Gotham out of the darkness and into the light as a beacon of hope
This is good pointer for his character arch as well because at the start of the movie the first person he saves is scared of him, but at the end the people follow him.
Which shows he is no longer scary to everyone, just villains and a symbol of hope for others.
which is what he realises he needs to be at the end.
wasn't exactly the most subtle symbolism
Does it need to be? It feels deserved
@@noahbarnes9770 agreed, it was super cheesy imo
Bro no way you realized that???
Bro out of all your reviews I can agree 50/50. Some I agree some I don’t. This movie dope af.
“rip-off of seven”. completely misses the fact that the movie was literally conceived in paying homage to that very film.
I got that seven vibe too.
@@littlehollow wow you need a life man
@@Capdub how?
Conservative media comprehension tends to usually be really bad. Obviously not all conservatives, but a lot of the ones that get put on a pedestal usually are incapable of seeing things like this
@@bigdadybojangls9219 leftist are not one bit better
Matt reeves: I want to ground batman into his early days and show how imperfect he is.
*When Ben misses the whole plot*
Ben: i hate because he is imperfect
Maybe, but Batman the firefighter at the end of the movie isn’t really an interesting character. Not really sure that’s a character development that will initiate good stories and movies going forward.
EX fuckin ZACTLY!!! MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE MOVIE...LMAO
The reply is why TH-cam took away dislike counts. Probably would be -1000
@@tomralph8540 he is not a firefighter the point is his goal changes from seeking vengeance to being a protector of the people.
Okay so I guess you enjoy reading comics and playing video games and watching movies about losers who screw up all the time. “I’m inspired by this loser I want to grow up and accomplish nothing” -you, 2022
I'm going to have to disagree for the most part. I like Batman's character because he is different in the dichotomy that you were talking about. You are right when you say that most of the other Batmans were millionaire playboys on one side to cover up the existence of Batman. I actually quite like this in the new movie. He's depressed, reclusive, and the only motivation he has for living is seeking vengeance. I think that is much more realistic for someone going through his sort of trauma. Through this movie he has a character arc where he realizes that fighting evil does very little when there is no one helping the good. The point is that he was doing his batman thing for the wrong reason. I liked the Riddler's character. It was nice to not have joker as the main villain for once. I think the reason that they blew up those bombs at the end was a sort of "destroy the old and start anew" idea. Kinda like Sodom and Gomorrah. He exposed the truth, but he needed to do something that would truly make people remember the truth/have to start over from scratch, and if he had to kill some innocents along the way he was fine with it. I really liked the score, but I guess that just comes down to personal taste. I really enjoyed the character of Catwoman although I agree that their chemistry wasn't my favorite. I wish they were just flirty friends instead of whatever the movie was trying to make happen. She had a good backstory and I liked a lot of the scenes with her at the club. There were a few little woke things but I feel like they don't distract from the movie. I think they were more just trying to push the theme of fighting against corruption for the sake of the people.
Ratio that fraud LMAO
I believe catwoman was trying to use batman the whole time, batman just succumbed to her because he was mentally unstable in the moment of their kiss, catwoman only showed her "loyalty" to batman when she saved him, batman also has an odd infatuation with her when he was replaying the scene of her rejecting batman when she took out her contact lenses, like most of batmans relations its all based off of bruces unstable mental state, he had literally no one else to comfort him after alfreds bombing, which is why i believe he was more vunerable around her, also batman helped her through almost killing her father they were both in bad mental states and they both helped each other in some way which lead to their attraction towards each other, you have to remember catwoman is more of a normal person vs her other depictions of being mentally strong, they are both more vulnerable in this movie, its not too hard to believe they would become attached to one another, and at the end scene its not even they love each other, they are both focused on their own paths and they both give up on their relationship for their own reasons, but thats the most i could think of to defend their relationship
Very well said! I would argue this movie is up there for debate to be the best Batman movie to date..and while I don’t care much for the theme of the riddler, the score felt very refreshing for having had so many other Batman scores in the past, especially Batman’s theme. However, I think the main problem the movie has does come down to the riddler, at least when it comes to what a lot of people seem to be saying. I think there’s a lot that people are overlooking about the riddler’s character and his plan, but when you look at the overall picture, there are things that don’t even line up with the mentality the character should have, especially in his approach to executing his plan. Riddler would’ve never shown up to the event at the end and risk his safety when he had already convinced a large group of people to execute the rest of it for him, especially after seeing that Batman and him were not on the same page. Also, had the riddler been slightly more animated and emotive it would’ve allowed for the movie to not drag at times or generally feel too long for some people.
@@Cash42 I think you may be right about many of those things for Batman fans. People like Ben may have a problem with some of the characters mannerisms and themes because they are used to seeing a different, more faithful, comic book version of that character. Im actually not that big a fan of batman or superhero movies in general. I think they are boring because they are predictable. I guess I just really liked this one because it wasn't "Bruce Wayne's parents die for the 87th time and then the excessive, millionaire, playboy goes and beats up the joker and saves Gotham." This movie felt a lot more grounded in a lot of ways. He was more accurately displayed as a depressed person who takes out his trauma on other people. He couldn't stop the bombs, but he did end up stopping riddler in the end. The movie ends on a high note with him learning that he needs to protect the innocent in other ways as well. It's a fantastic character arc and I'm willing to overlook some of the more minor flaws and details if it means getting something new and more relatable. I totally get that many people don't want that though. Some people really like the more comic book accurate version of Batman. I'm just not one of them. I also think it's fair to say that this riddler is not the same as in the other portrayals, but I also think making him like this is better than his more cartoons counterpart. I don't think he would've fit the story had he been more animated. I think you could compare him the Joaquin Phoenix joker in a lot of ways. They are tortured souls that were screwed over by the city of Gotham so they seeked some sort of retribution. I think Riddler plays into the "change is good" theme very well. But Its very much a matter of opinion and you make some good points too
Jesus Christ loves you
I took it that The Riddler was inspired by Batman's example and took it up a gear. He thought Batman approved of his methods and his plan, not realising he doesn't. It's only when the other Riddler fella says "I'm vengeance" that Batman realises the whole endeavour is no longer just about him. Whether Batman sought to be or not, he has become a symbol that people are beginning to emulate and so far it's an inspiration that's making things worse. Batman realises however that if he's had an effect for bad, maybe he can have an effect for good. That's his rebirth, when he realises it's become a responsibility to others and that there is hope after all that things will get better (remember he questions whether things are getting any better at all) if he can inspire the people of the city to combat the cities, and their own individual, ills and be reborn into a brighter future.
Mr. Shapiro misses the point of this movie, completely. This movie was about him becoming Batman. The reason they call him Mr. Vengeance is because he is not Batman yet. He may put on the Cowl and beat up bad guys but he isn't a symbol of justice. Vengeance is different, vengeance is in itself evil. Batman is supposed to be above that. This Batman wasn't there yet. I don't want to get into fully breaking down all of his points, I could almost make my own video on it breaking down his review. But at the end of the day this Batman doesn't get it yet. As the Riddler said at the end of the movie " I thought you were smarter."
I like where you're coming from. I liked Batman's character arc from vengeance to being a hero and a symbol of hope. I didn't take that as being anti-crime fighting but just that he has to be more than just acting out vengeance on the evil criminals. He has to be a symbol that criminals fear but that good folks know he's got their back.
I thought this was the worst batman. Below batfleck
@@bigwill-gc7su why?
Doesn’t matter what “the point” was, it was done poorly.
But... He is Batman. For two years already.
"The more I thought about it, the angrier I became."
Honestly, sounds like Ben Shapiro on literally anything.
His take is ridiculous and he is reaching hard. I’m surprised he didn’t pull anything.
Fr, dude is an idiot’s idea of a smart person. Half the shit he says makes no sense at all whatsoever
@Baronarx V Ahh yes, Ben “Sell Your Home When the Sea Levels Rise” Shapiro. The epitome of intellect
@Baronarx V Next time act like a grown-up? *They weren't talking to you* and you say "Give me a reference." to the joke that person made. And you used 'me' in a way as if you were debating that person and you're entitled to a reference or source... except they weren't talking to you...
Why am I even assuming the average Ben Shabibo fan isn't 11 years old, telling people to act like a "grown-up" isn't something an actual adult would say, I would know, I'm 13... but ACtuallY I can't even imagine myself saying that, even when I was 11, you're either younger than 11 or just an immature 11(or older?) year old. aAANd I got so focused responding to your stupid comment that I wrote an entire essay
It's surprising to hear he was ever not angry about something to begin with.
I couldn't disagree more on your take on Batman in this movie. He's not going to stop fighting criminals but he realizes he has to be more than vengeance and fear, he has to be a source of hope. Vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay. Anytime anyone else seeks revenge including the masked vigalante instead of seeking justice then the downward spiral into villainy begins because we cannot see the full picture. Appreciate a different point of view on the film but I think I liked this one as much if not more than The Dark Knight and this is the first movie I really cared about the character of Batman more than the villains of the movie that made the Nolan films so great, and that is no slight to Paul Dano or any of the other villains as they were top notch as well!
ngl batman had to be a detective batman in this film since he is obviously dealing with the riddler but idk. something rlly just didnt click w me and emo batman over here
Paul Dano's Riddler was weak and lacked agency. Batman is two-dimensional and boring. The only good scene in this movie involves a car soaring through a wall of flames. Also, Batman already was a source of hope to everybody who knew he was defeating villains.
Hell yeah!
@@brassattacks2411 he wasnt if u watched the end of dark knight, people fear batman they dont HOPE for him
@@laogai6292 there's not a single common person in the Nolan movies that you referenced who feared Batman. only villains. In fact, in the last half of the Dark Knight Rises, he inspires several people who have chosen inactivity to rethink their position and join the cause. Particularly John Blake (Who tells Bruce Wayne that he was inspired by him as a child), and, Officer Foley (Who then joins the protest, and gives his life in the skirmishes that follow).
7:58 Exactly! 💪🏽
I said the same thing to my friend. 😂
12:58 *Now I understand why Ben left the Batman project with Matt because Matt gave us this garbage movie.* 🤦🏽♂️
Shapiro is the kind of guy who thinks he always "gets it" and knows everything, but actually misses the point pretty often. Even explaining it to him a million times will never work.
Um. No. You got confused.
@@luxembourgishempire2826 cope harder. This review was trash. Even Ben’s most mindless Stan’s are disagreeing with him on that
True. Like he says, facts don’t care about feelings
My roommate does this a lot. He likes to try and identify the underlying themes in movies too early and ends up misinterpreting stuff. I think Ben does the same because he's a political commentator and therefore everything must be connected to politics.
@@cosmicremix311 He always makes it about how leftists ruin everything. He can't just enjoy something.
Its almost as if a character can have multiple depictions and variations depending on the director🤯
but what’s the point of you want to completely reject and deconstruct the character, but won’t actually own up to it? if Batman’s meant to inspire hope and change, why does he dress like a bat and hide in the shadows?
@@Sam_T2000 the whole point of this movie is batman still learning to how to be batman. He learns he has to inspire hope by the end of the movie. Keep in mind he's only been batman for 2 years so he's still trying to figure it out
@@dg8games438 - since when has Batman ever been a symbol of hope? that’s more Superman’s kind of thing.
if anything, Batman is a symbol of justice, but more than that he’s just a man willing to do the right thing in a city full of people doing the wrong thing, leading by example. he’s a hero, but he’s no savior.
@@Sam_T2000 you just said batman is meant to inspire hope and now you are saying when has he ever been a symbol of hope. And yes batman is a symbol of justice and more and this movie is him realizing that's what he has to do.
@@Sam_T2000 this batman is different from the others, he's all about vengeance and what-not. The other batmen from the past are symbols of justice. This first movie with pattinson is him learning a lesson that he needs to be more than just vengeance. I'm sure in the next pattinson batman movie we'll be seeing it
The film doesn't need to explain why Batman does what he does, because we've already had that in every single iteration of the character on the big screen.
Came to the comments to find this comment. The entire time he is talking about how "they never explained why he is batman" and "the director doesn't know, the writers don't know", I was thinking 'dude, its batman. Everyone knows why. We don't need it explained in every single reboot.'
Exactly! This was one of the things I loved most about the movie, how they didn't decide to do his entire origin again because its been done so much already. Instead the film drops us head first into surely the most gritty and dangerous part of Bruce's journey as a one man army, with crime at an all time high while Batman is still learning how to be Batman, accompanied by no outside support or plot armoured flashy gadgets.
The fact that Ben saw all this as an ISSUE makes me really question his movie reviewing skills. He brought up some interesting comparisons between Dano's Riddler, John Doe and the Zodiac Killer, while also giving props to Collin Farrell who played a very convincing Penguin, but his entire analysis of Batman himself is pretty darn abysmal.
We saw character growth, strong feelings of Bruce which frankly have never been explored as deeply before, and a lot of realism shown throughout the film, so I'm pretty unimpressed with this review. I'd give the film a solid 9/10.
@@jimeld86 The damned thing is 3 hours long. Pretty sure they could have snuck some backstory in there.
He also explains exactly why he does what he does at the beginning with the opening dialogue he just doubts what he is doing is actually doing anything
Not everything has to be politicized. Yes, there were a few nods at “white elites” but I feel it was more of a jab at the rich parts of the city who happen to be the criminals. This is a noir film and honestly feels like we are back in the mob days.
In terms of “not knowing why the Batman does what he does”, we don’t need to know. This film has no need to dive into the backstory we all know. He’s a rich guy with too much anger and rage. Becoming Batman is his escape. He simply is vengeance and nothing more.
As for acting, Paul Dano was captivating. Arguably the most riveting character since Heath Ledgers Joker. Colin Farrell made the penguin intimidating. Zoe Kravitz, while not as good as Ann Hathaway, brought a simple relatability to her character and really showcased that dangerous attraction we expect from the character. Finally, Robert Pattinson was amazing. Not many actors can take a character portrayed many times over the past century, say only a few lines in 3 hours, and completely reinvent the role perfectly.
This movie was groundbreaking. Setting the tone for the next DC movies without any cheesy moments. Big props to Matt Reeves for taking a campy character like the riddler and making him actually terrifying. Overall 9.5/10 for me.
Yeah, I don't understand why they would keep making Batman about politics. Ever since the first comic, the sjws couldn't take their hands off of it.
I mean guys, I liked it too, but we gotta chill out with the acting like it was some perfect savior sent from the heavens. Its not perfect, there's a bunch things they could trim up, its not the first "gritty, realistic" batman, but at the end of the day, I appreciated the tone they set and enjoyed it for what it was
6/10, if you think this was 9.5/10 you have horrible movie taste and please never become a critic
@@salerno8536 would you like to elaborate on the poor rating?
@@painandpyro you’re right it’s not perfect I don’t know that there’s a perfect movie period but I think it does a better job than the Nolan movies with a more grounded Batman and didn’t feel nearly as long or a slog to sit through as dark knight rises ugh talk about a movie that needed trimming.
Batman's motives are purely based on vengeance. Hence his reputation. At the end, when the Riddler tells him that he and Batman are doing the same thing and the Riddler thug who says, "I'm vengeance," makes Batman realize that his actions inspire crazies. This is the consequence of ruling through fear. Batman will still beat the shit out of criminals, but he'll be more of a symbol of hope for the people of Gotham as well.
Instead of being a "nocturnal animal" who targets criminals in a nightly quest for vengeance, he'll be a symbol for Gotham. The scene at the end where he carries a wounded woman to safety and holds onto her until she's helicoptered away was a great nuanced moment of Batman realizing how his mission has to change. Expect Bruce Wayne to take a more direct role in the rebuilding of Gotham and expect that persona of Bruce Wayne, the true disguise, to be crafted throughout the next few films.
Great analysis! Totally agree
I couldn't have said any better myself. Two thumbs up!
The execution is meh. Beating the shit out of criminals will still inspire more rogue vigilantes.
so he learns not to beat up criminals bc it’ll inspire lunatics but he’ll continue beating up criminals?
@@kylevillacorta1157 No, he learns that it's about more than just vengeance and he needs to lead by example. Instead of just being a boogeyman, he realizes that he needs to be more; he needs to be a symbol of hope.
I feel like the whole “full batman no bruce wayne” thing was answered in the movie. His goal was to be vengeance incarnate. Bruce Wayne is in no way shape or form helpful in that crusade aside from providing the monetary resources to help him as Batman achieve that goal. To him there is only Batman. I believe the batman we usually see that can live two different lives is a very emotionally experienced version of the character. The point in this movie was to show the opposite. Have you ever tried to alter your persona? I have no doubt it would be difficult. But in the end he realizes that he isn’t only needed as a symbol for vengeance, but a symbol of hope. And HOPEFULLY thats bleeds into his Bruce Wayne persona in the future with him utilizing more than just his money to drive the bat, but focussing on his political influence as well.
Perfectly said
Exactly. He's only 2 years in. He's learning. He's definitely going to pursue the Bruce Wayne character now that he knows his true role in Gotham.
That’s exactly what I’m thinking
Even a 2 year "rookie" (hardly green, a US army Ranger takes less than a year to train) knows he has to maintain a low profile as Bruce Wayne.
@@kev3d He's training himself. Everyone's personal growth journey is different.
The film does not HATE Batman.
"You don't really know why batman is doing what he's doing":
Answer: vengeance and anger.
"He doesn't really do anything with his wealth"
Answer: He doesn't care about it, and squanders it on his batman stuff.
Also this is touched on in the comics Joker war (great comic btw)