'Thunderball' | Ian Fleming Brings SPECTRE to the World | Book Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- I've never been a huge fan of either the film Thunderball or Never Say Never Again so I was very curious to read this one. It's a mixed bag of feelings suffice to say!
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Blofeld may have been Number 2 to Largo’s Number 1, but that’s just a call sign and a way of concealing identities, and they all rotate numbers periodically. It’s not a hierarchical thing; Blofeld is clearly in charge.
Largo may not be _the_ most memorable villain, but he does carve out a space for himself as villain in his own right, not just as henchman. He could have easily been completely overshadowed by Blofeld, but he wasn’t.
aperson22222 Agreed, I think Largo is also described really well and I enjoyed reading about how he had to hold himself back after being cleaned out in the casino.
Movie tanking is better Blofeld is No 1 and No 2 Largo.
Largo as described in the book is amazing close to Adolfo Celi's appearance in the movie.
That wasn’t my take away from reading the novel at all. Mine was that Bloefeld didn’t have a number and Largo was ‘number 1’…
@@WhiskeyEcho47No, Blofeld is referred to as Number 2 at the board meeting, and the whole rotating numbers scheme is explained.
It's hilarious seeing Bond so out of his element at the health spa in the beginning of this book.
Thunderball and Never Say Never Again are great films and this is one of Ian Fleming's best books. It feels like a vacation trip. In fact, Ocean Club is a real resort that appears in Casino Royale.
There's an exchange in the film that always puzzled me. It's when Bond and Moneypenny are talkign on the phone and Bond quips: "Moneypenny, next time I see you I'll have you across my knee"
Moneypenny: " On yoghurt and lemon juice?! I can hardly wait!"
It was not til I read the novel that it made sense. That there's this joke he's not going to be strong enough or manly enough to do anything after being at the health clinic always found that hilarious. It's been a few years since I finished all of Fleming's novels I've recently started collecting all the other Bond novels. Eventually will start reading Colonel Sun.
Yes! I also thought it was a weird line in the movie, and pictured her literally covered in yoghurt and lemon juice 😁
I also only understood it by reading the book. Just like who Count Lupe was.
I think I agree with you on this one - an enjoyable read, but nowhere near the best. That being said, the Blofeld introduction is one of my favourite bits of the entire series. The way he always takes a violet scented breath mints every time he kills someone is a great character trait. I also think it's a neat touch that he kills one of his agents for raping a kidnap victim - Blofeld promised the family she would be returned unharmed and pays back part of the ransom as way of apology. He may be a criminal, but he's not amoral, he has values and honour. It's a shame that aspect was lost in the film version - I can't think off the top of my head any instances in the films where Blofeld is shown to have such a moral code. In the film he just kills the guy for embezzling funds, which isn't as interesting, but I guess they wanted to keep it more family friendly which is fair enough.
Also, notice in Fleming's backstory that he's Polish/Greek - his father wasn't Hannes Oberhauser and Bond wasn't his adopted brother. Just worth pointing out because Logan, Purvis & Wade somehow overlooked that rather vital piece of information...
One last thing, thumbs up for saying 'backronym', it's one of my favourite words.
BenCol Oh yes, the chapter describing Blofeld was so so so good. The best version of any Blofeld I’ve experienced in any media quite honestly. I found it strange that he has such a strong moral code. In the movies he’s so ruthless and doesn’t seem to care about anything that won’t improve his bottom line.
I thought that the reason he killed the rapist had nothing to do with morality or honour, but just because SPECTRE has a reputation to maintain? He doesn't want clients or victims to think that SPECTRE can't be counted on to keep their word because that's bad for business? He also thinks it might have been consensual but frankly doesn't care (also, the kidnappers belonged to the Union Corse, who'll be Bonds allies next time around; fun little fact).
Jack Kirby gave his villains like Doctor Doom and Darkseid a sense of honour, but when asked about it he said he did it to make those villains MORE evil rather than less, because he thought it just made them arrogant an delusional to think that something as trivial as keeping your word made up for all the horrible evil things that they did, and it was really just a way for them to feel superior to common thugs they felt were beneath them.
By the way, if you go over to TV Tropes and scroll down to the Literary section, you can find three artist depictions of Blofeld from each of the books- tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/JamesBondBlofeld
I do like how Blofeld is basically the "anti-Bond"- he doesn't smoke or drink, he hardly ever has sex, he maintains a healthy lifestyle...M is probably thinking "Bond, I want you to be more like Blofeld".
Jonathan Campbell I meant it more that Blofeld feels strongly about sticking to his word, that that’s important to him, and he’s keen to show he abides by it. Indeed, it wasn’t the act of rape that bothered him, it was the fact that Number 12 did as he was told not to. I just thought the fact he returned some of the ransom money was an interesting touch - that he felt the need to apologise to the family, though I doubt he was trying to be compassionate, just saving face for having to renege on the terms of a deal. Though it does appear I misremembered it a bit as he says “I am not concerned with morals and ethics” so that does dampen my original comment somewhat. Either way, I think it shows a lot more about Blofeld than the film in which it’s “you stole part of the ransom! BZZRT!” He still does the bait-and-switch with the other guy, though, which I thought was a neat moment, so it’s above NSNA which emits the entire electric-chair segment.
@@BenCol It might be a nice little moment but it doesn't really play into this story or future ones so I can kind of see why they dropped it; as it is, the most it foreshadows is that Blofeld is grandiose and doesn't like to be thought of as a common criminal, which comes up again in YOLT I believe when he rants against Bond. I can see why they dropped it as movie Blofeld generally comes across as more distant, mysterious and sinister.
Compare Franz Sanchez, who is similarly concerned with keeping his word for a different reason- "loyalty is more important to me than money". That is much more relevant to his plot and character, as it foreshadows how p*ssed off he's going to be when he thinks that people are betraying him anyway.
@@calvindyson We could've had something like this with the Craig films. Instead we got.....Spectre. X(
I think the Blofeld trilogy definitely peaks in the middle with OHMSS.
And it's curious to compare the descriptions of Blofeld between the three books. Without giving too much away, it's fair to say things change a bit!!
Maybe Fleming's idea was that Blofeld was something of a chameleon and master of disguise. Do you think that's why the films kept changing the actor for Blofeld?
Could well be. I always thought he was scarier when you couldn't see him though. Bit like the monster in a horror film, the fear of the unknown.
@@Blokewood3 I think that is probably why, but they kind of bungled that up majorly. Would've loved to have seen something like that with the Craig films but Spectre fucked all that stuff up as well.
They do explain the physical changes as being disguises, albeit ones that are meant to be permanent. The personality changes don’t really get very satisfying explanations.
I think the personality changes are meant to be Blofeld gradually going mad as his massive ego can't take being on the run and constantly having plastic surgery to disguise himself.
I loved Thunderball. The first Fleming novel I read. At the time I read it (2006) Thunderball was still my favorite Bond movie, and was for 24 years up until recently when I decided I love Casino Royale more. In some ways, I preferred the novel. I love the detailed backstory that Fleming goes into with Blofeld is great and the stealing of the bombs. The big, big, big thing the film has over the book is the invention of Fiona Volpe. She’s one of the very best things about the film. I can’t help but miss her in the book.
As the number two number one thing. Its said in the book that at the beginning of each meeting each spectre member draws a random number to their names secret.
Ahhh I must have missed or just forgotten that. Makes sense though.
Yea ! Blofeld trilogy ! Keep up the good work calvin !
Write What You Know: The visit to the health clinic was inspired by Ian Fleming's own 1955 trip to the Enton Hall health farm. He was ordered by his doctor to go to one and found the experience so laborious that he began to plot out his next book to give himself some relief from it all.
10:50 "Largo was quite uncompelling, but serviceable." So he was played by Adolfo Celi in the book as well as in the movie? Burrrn. I love Celi in L'alibi, unfortunately I don't understand Italian, but his body language and voice just fits so much better in the Italian/Northern African environment of that particular movie in its particular time.
3:58 When this book was written, SMERSH no longer existed. And some of the Smersh members were part of SPECTRE. This was smart, it should continue in the next films so they can talk about Russia and China without losing the audience in those countries.
Calvin you have officially caught up to me. I took a break from the main series to read Anthony Horowitz's Forever and a Day. Need to dive into the main series again!
I'm trying my best to run through the books in complete chronological order... But it's tough because there are several newer ones that I'm dying to read!! Solo, Trigger Mortis and Forever and a Day!
@@calvindyson Forever and a Day is a very fun ride to read through!
Reasonably new to your channel Calvin. Really enjoying your content. I've always been a Bond fan but this year I've definitely fallen back in live with the franchise. Reading the books through for the first time and then watching the corresponding movie. Literally finished reading Thunderball on Thursday and watched it last night.
Amazed at the difference between Bond in the movies and the books. He comes across as much more human in the books. Also love seeing the difference between the books and the movies when it comes to plot, story, characters and so on.
Thunderball was a good read. A good book, but I found it some what bland and boring compared to some of the other 007 books. It is not the best, but not the worst.
Very much enjoying the Fleming book reviews Calvin!
Thanks, Jack! They're actually very fun to make too. Really enjoying my read through. Feel like I'm kind of in the final stretch now.
It’s been years since I’ve read Thunderball, but what I remember are the character beats most. The films have never gotten Blofeld as great as the book did. Scenes between Bond and Leiter and the Donino scenes. I remember little of the plot but a lot about the characters.
Many of the most interesting passages for me were the character interactions rather than the plot elements for sure.
I'm reading the book right now (in the German), I love the part when they get to Blofeld and they tell you about his background and about SPECTRE. Calvin also didn't mention that Blofeld has no white Persian cat and that he eats violet breath mints in the book.
Going through 60 ciggies a day is easy. Mostly it's just burning em.
Light up take a puff. Hold or put down til 3/4 burned take a puff.
Light another repeat 60 times. It's easy, expensive but easy.
Another incredibly entertaining video.
Hope we don't have to wait too long for the The Spy Who Loved Me review... I really am enjoying these book reviews, Calvin, keep them coming!
TSWLM will be my next video :) uploading on the 7th!
I would highly recommend you watch and possibly review the French film "OSS 117: Cairo Nest of Spies" and possibly it's sequel "Lost in Rio," they're very good parodies of the 60s Bond formula.
Really enjoyed the review, Calvin.
Maria Kelly thanks, Maria! Thanks also for joining my Patreon page! Very much appreciated 😁😁
Calvin, I STRONGLY recommend that you DON'T read The Spy Who Loved Me next. I was the one that told you before when you live streamed that the "continuity gets all crazy after Thunderball." This is the recommended order you should read next:
- Octopussy- The Living Daylights- The Property of a Lady- On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Chapters 1-5)- 007 in New York- The Spy Who Loved Me- On Her Majesty's Secret Service (Chapters 6-27)
The reasons why I recommend this order are:
1. A character is dead during The Man with the Golden Gun, but they are alive in one of the short stories of Octopussy. So it makes sense to read the Octopussy book of short stories first where the character is alive before they're revealed to be already dead in TMWTGG.
2. Two months pass from Chapters 5 & 6 in OHMSS, and 007 in New York and The Spy Who Loved Me are what happens during that two month gap, and they are the two stories that happen while Bond is in New York.
This is just what I recommend in the order you read next. :)
Yeah, I never realised how convoluted it all was until I read the Wikipedia article on the Bond novels and found two different theories on the timeline. And the continuation books don’t help much, but I gather they’re considered non-canon for the most part.
@@BenCol BenCol I remember reading the jamesbondwikia pages and they had the theory that the Octopussy short stories takes place in between OHMSS and YOLT, saying that Bond "complains in the beginning of YOLT about being put on pointless assignments since Tracy's death." But I never seen such a reference in YOLT. And the only "continuation book" I consider canon is Colonel Sun which takes place a few months after TMWTGG and was written by the same man who helped finish TMWTGG after Fleming's death. So I think It is very well worthy of being in Ian Fleming's canon. And Colonel Sun (in my opinion) is a much better/satisfying ending to Bond than what TMWTGG did. :)
I did indeed read on wikipedia about the timelines, but for the sake of convenience, I'm going to read through in publishing order. I know the the short stories were published over time and the collection just groups them together but I'd find it easier to keep track that way.
Heck, I read all the short stories in one go, because I picked up ‘Quantum of Solace: The Complete James Bond Short Stories’ compilation (which is just FYEO and OP&TLD combined, released to tie-in with the QoS film) for holiday reading a while ago, even though I had only read the first three books or so. I assumed the novels and short stories were like the films and were so episodic that they could be read in any order - I didn’t realise the Bond books had a more overarching narrative than the films.
And then I proceeded to get scrambled egg all over it trying to cook the recipe in ‘007 in New York’.
Just finished this book tonight! My first first Bond books, too, and I must that I was absolutely hooked. Carrying on now with the rest of The SPECTRE Trilogy.
This is just me but a series about Bond villains really interests me. U could discuss their plan, their henchmen, the differences between book and film, etc . That’s probably just me though, I always find the villains more interesting. We REALLY need a Blofeld book.
The villains are some of the best elements. Even though I didn't LOVE the novel Goldfinger, the villain himself was pretty excellent.
Movie Blofeld managed to last longer at least, and while he was never as developed as literary Blofeld (though to be fair that never really amounted to much anyway) he stayed on top for a lot longer.
It seems that like Jean- Luc Picard, Blofeld has his own " Number One. "
I think the novel Thunderball deserves a lot more credit.
I think it's a lot more streamlined, quicker paced, less characters, introduces Blofeld and his back story and its the story with the biggest stakes, Also you could tell how this could have been translated to screen.
Its a shame the movie Thunderball is plodding as hell, filled with too many characters and the underwater sequences go on forever which makes it so boring.
Thoughts?
I don't disagree with you at all. I think the book is vastly superior to both the movie versions!
@@calvindyson I'll be interested to see where Thunderball ranks among your list later on. For me it's in my top five. Did you also know that Bond's health form is virtually identical to Fleming's state of health in real life at the time?
Great review
Do you plan to review the novelizations that are based on the films?
I'm intetested to hear your opinions on them especially since they have some extra details on the movies (i.e. in the Tomorrow Never Dies novel, it is revealed that Natalya Simonova married a hockey player following the events of Goldeneye)
I'd love to yes! I hope they're easily accessible. I'm a bit nervous that some of the continuation novels are going to be difficult to get a hold of :/
I read The Spy Who Loved Me. I won't give away the plot, curious how you like it.
I like this one a lot, despite the filler. I think I would have to call Domino the sexiest Bond Girl of the series, and a couple of chapters felt almost erotic to me. I still prefer SMERSH, but the threat posed by SPECTRE doesn’t feel convoluted and silly here. It’s complex, not at all straightforward like SMERSH operations usually were, but with a reasonable suspension of disbelief I was perfectly willing to go along with it. I like Blofeld as threat-behind-the-threat, there’s none of the over-the-top elements present in the two novels that feature him directly, to say nothing of the ridiculous cartoon those damned movies keep trotting out. There’s a lot of filler in this book, to be sure, but it never really drags (well maybe in the endless, overwritten description of SPECTRE HQ), and much of it is actually pretty interesting in its own right.
Looking back I find myself thinking of this as the last bow for Bond as Fleming had been more or less consistently writing him since _Casino Royals._ He’s barely in the next book, and the two beyond that bring in such significant character changes that everything that’s been done to him up till now is as nothing by comparison. You’re right to say that a formula has developed, but it’s about to be retired. And this is for the best. _The Man with the Golden Gun_ feels like something of a return to form, I suppose, but in all the wrong ways.
finally, been waiting from the first novel for this!
What happened to your weekly bond videos? Did they get copyright strikes?
A great sum up! I never did like this book though.
This is another one where the movie is close enough where I'd rather watch the movie. but I really loved Domino's scene describing her fantasy of the sailor on the pack of cigarettes, it was strangely sweet and heartwarming.
If I have a complaint about this book it's that Bond kinda "guesses" things a bit too quickly and accurately I feel.
Just recently re-read TB and there are two things that I didn't care for... the high attention to technical detail (which Fleming was doing intently and admitted he grew tired of) which kind of drags on the reading process. The other is not enough of Domino and Largo, both of whom I like and want more for them to do and interact with Bond. I do agree it's a bit of a let down that Blofeld disappears, but knowing he's coming back, it's okay... though I would have preferred he stay physically the same for another book before OHMSS changes. I do really like TB though. It's not one of my top tier books, but I do like it. Calvin forgot to say whether he'd pick the movie(s) or the book... but I guess it's a case of not caring enough about either??
Ahh! Yes I did miss that out... i would pick the book over either movie, no doubt!
In the novel Thunderball, Petacchi is NOT shot and killed by Largo. A henchman kills Petacchi with a knife
Totally agree about the Bond/M scene about Shrublands. Don’t like that the movie just has show up there, but thought it was such an improvement in the film for the screenwriters to make Bond’s idea of going to the Bahamas and having Domino be the one “worth going after.”
Convulted, very humourous (I actually burst laughing out loud with some of the Shrublands scenes and Bond's desperation) and maybe a tad too long. A good Bond novel, but not one of the finest.
There's a big hole in Blofeld's origin: he couldn't be son of polish man and greek woman born in Gdynia. In 1908 Gdynia was a small fisherman village, Poland was still occupied by Prussia, Russia and Austria. There's no chance that on these lands could be some Greeks.
Hmmm. I loved the scene with the Parma Violets (or thereabouts) in the book. I don't like the film - the wounding of various marine wildlife for entertainment disgusts me - but I do quite like the book. Like 'Live and Let Die', I think both books have more to offer. Incidentally, Calvin, at the risk of being sexist, I think you are utterly gorgeous and enjoy your reviews very much indeed. All the best to you! xxxx
Nearly read the book myself
I read this book while I was in high school. I have some grey hairs now
I just finished reading this book and one thing stood out to me, and thats how different SPECTRE is between film and novel
In the films its a vast successful criminal organization that while we see bond thwart their bigger plans they have their hands in everything and everywhere
Compare it to the books where its made very clear they arent making nearly as much as they hoped so this whole operation is one giant final cashcrab before they plan to disband and head into retirement
Good evening? It's 4 in the morning where I am. Different time zones and all that.
Where Do You Live?
@@zanemurcha2675 Eastern standard time zone.
What happened to your Never Say Never Again review?
Awesome book review I like TV OHMSS and YOLT they best three books on on YOLT.
I won't spoil the story or surprise as much as I will soften the blow, but let's just say that The Spy Who Loved Me was an failed experiment of Fleming that he tried to do in response to criticisms of his past works, and it backfired big time.
Thunderball is the least readable of all the Bond books for me Fleming was trying out different ideas when he wrote The Spy Who Loved Me and it's obvious he lost confidence and was borrowing ideas that weren't as good from others with Thunderball. The book like the film is not one of the best. I enjoyed Never Say Never Again because I have fond memories of seeing that on the big screen but not as fond as the official films with Roger Moore. The Spy Who Loved Me the book was a real departure from the forumla. I enjoyed that as a book rather than a James Bond adventure. It was critically panned for being different ..maybe it was ahead of it's time? Or maybe it just sucked? Be interesting to get your perspective on that one.
The book is good and the film from 1965 is fantastic. Definitely one of Connerys best Bondfilms.
The only thing in the film is that we dom´t know why Bond is at Shrublands.
Okay, one small thing about The Spy Who Loved Me I feel someone should mention (and I don't think anyone has), Fleming only said those things and had its publication and film version stopped AFTER it was critically panned (by male reviewers. Female ones actually quite liked it). This seems significant as Fleming was always really insecure and disparaging about Bond, meaning that if we took his comments as gospel, we shouldn't read ANY of the books at all (they were written out of boredom, as a joke, Bond is a cardboard cutout, etc). Plus in the case of The Spy Who Loved Me, I think that was heightened by the fact he went out on a limb with it more than usual: it's more autobiographical than most of the others and he wrote it partly because he heard that young boys were reading them and was worried that, at that impressionable age, they might come away thinking Bond was a person to aspire to be, so he wrote the novel partly to set the record straight about the kind of person Bond was (hence the different narrator / view point)
That being said, I do still seem to be in a minority in liking this one, which is okay, especially as most people (including me) come to the books after experiencing the films and this is pretty much as far away from those as you can get.
Anyway, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But I hope you like it. :)
That's a very good point regarding Fleming's attitude towards TSWLM. I get the sense he would really take reviews to heart.
Oh boy. From what I've heard, the spy who loved me is... interesting.
At time of writing the script for this review, I hadn't read TSWLM... Now I have and... I have some thoughts....
Calvin Dyson Can’t wait!
@@calvindyson I wonder if the plot of it surprised you. It shocked the hell out of me when I read it back in the 1970's shortly after the movie came out.
Indeed it is, the third act saves it when James Bond finally appears. Being from upstate New York originally, I really enjoyed having the story set there. Also when the Daily Express newspaper adapted it for their comic strip series, it appeared after The Man With The Golden Gun. The comic strip also added more of Bond's mission in Canada tracking SPECTRE who is now headed by the mysterious Madam Spectra( whom some fan believe to be Irma Blunt, who survived the end of You Only Live Twice it is never formally confirmed).
Is it better than the movie? Im not a big fan of the movie
I enjoyed it much more than the movie for sure!
I'm glad they added elements to Largo's character such as the eye patch, the white hair and the competitive jealousy for Bond. It's helped make him one of the most recognisable villains alongside Jaws and Blofeld.
I kinda wish he wasn't an old man and looked more like his description in the book, because it would have translated well in his rivalry with Bond and their contest for Domino's affection. As it is, it just seems like a Frollo situation.
Also anybody else notice that the plot for Thunderball and the way it plays out is similar to Metal Gear Solid? The twists and turns in the MGS game (Such as the black project and the Master stuff) would probably have done some good for the Thunderball plot.
I always liked this novel the most out of Fleming's books. I personally feel out of the two adaptations, Never Say Never Again is the best one (in fact, NSNA is quite possibly my favorite of all the movies).
The actors I imagine for some of the characters in this novel:
Bond - Timothy Dalton
Felix - Bernie Casey
Domino - Kim Basinger
Largo - Klaus Maria Brandauer
Blofeld - Max Von Sydow
A lot of nakedness in this one might have livened up the film versions 😁
Nakedness would have livened up all the film versions due to the gratuitous amount of it in the novels, i.e. Honey is wearing nothing but a knife when she comes out of the water in Dr. No. But I don't know when these movies would exist, in the 60's the moral crusaders would have flipped and now the SJW's and snowflakes will flip out.
Not as good as the book of OHMSS. Or that academic book about Bond where I wrote a Gerthy chapter
But would you say its better than its film versions?
I think the Thunderball book is when it actually hit me that there's a very, very fine line for Fleming between being outrageously sexist and just pure comedy gold. So much respect for him as a writer but man, the stuff he comes out with. The subtle whiffs of genuine snobbery and contempt. "Any more ticking off from you and when I get out of this place I'll give you such a spanking you'll have to do your typing off a block of Dunlopillo."
Sometimes I don't know whether laughing or cringing is more appropriate!
@@calvindyson "Cut out the schmaltz. What you need is a double brandy and soda!"
Don’t really like the film versions of this book can’t stand never say never again and thunderball is just ok.
Thunderball is much better than Never Say Never Again.
Maria Kelly I agree at least thunderball felt like a bond film and actually had some enjoyable scenes and a great soundtrack. Never Say Never Again is so boring and doesn’t feel like a bond film.
Never liked Thunderball in any of its incarnations. A not very good book adapted into two not very good movies. It's really stupid how so much of the Bond movie franchise was derailed over a legal battle concerning one of the worst stories. Meanwhile, OHMSS, possibly the best book, is adapted in a somewhat throw-away manner. The movie is good, don't get me wrong, it just seemed like they should have adapted it in order, with Connery. Oddly enough, Connery would have been a better kilt-wearing spy in OHMSS, opposite Diana Rigg, and Lazenby would probably have done better with the Japanese stuff (except being disguised as a Japanese man - there's no saving that aspect).
Sean Connery wanted absolutely nothing to do with playing the role of 'James Bond' in 1969, so for better or worse, we have the unknown, non-actor, male model, kilt-wearing George Lazenby in : OHMSS
Never Say Never Again was better than Thundberall. Who's with me!!!