Man City wins big as Premier League rules overturned I The Game podcast
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2024
- Manchester City have accused the Premier League of “misleading” clubs with “inaccuracies” in its verdict on the legal dispute over rules governing commercial deals between clubs and related companies.
In an escalation of the row between league officials and the English champions, City’s general counsel, Simon Cliff, has detailed the club’s objections to a summary of the landmark case that was sent to top-flight clubs on Monday.
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The PL made unlawful rules to prejudice certain clubs. This is a massive scandal. There was corruption and undue influence from certain clubs. The PL were held to have abused their position. Football needs an independent regulator.
Spot on!!
They literally have communication with the league and clubs to put in rules to specifically stop a club from growing. They said Newcastles name in the messages. That's crazy
It appears the PL are okay with the asset stripping by certain American owned clubs and have a problem with Arab owned clubs such as City, who have invested hugely, in the local community😊
Disgusting discrimination 😂
Couldnt have said it better. Spot on.
Ive been saying this for years! well said and spot on. The Red cartel ie liverpool, aresnal, utd dont want other clubs getting bigger!
It's not Man City's fault the Premier League can't make rules lawful
The fact that epl don't know rules that are contrary to UK rules shows the depth of its corruption.
All the pundits and experts questioned why City brought this case against the Premier League, and they all thought City would lose all the claims. This landmark decision in favour of City has blown up the Premier League and maybe some people at the top who pushed through these rules need to step down
▪︎Media - call City cheats without proof
▪︎Media - scared to call PL cheats despite proof?😂
Because putting City Cheats in their titles is much much much more clickbaity than putting PL Cheats.
Media need sensational titles.
Media need money too.
Great shout
BIG FACTS!
City saving football
Absolutely!
The whole problem is that the PL doesn't operate in a fair and transparent way. If we had transparency it would be common knowledge who wanted the APT rules to change so quickly after PIF bought Newcastle (I think quite a few people know who the clubs are) and as importantly which clubs didn't want the Newcastle transaction to go through in the first place.
Newcastle took the FA to court over this and it was settle behind close doors because Newcastle was going to point to this exact problem. That the PL is not run in a fair and transparent way...one could actually argue it's run in the exact opposite way.
The biggest issue here is that it has been proven that there was collusion between 11 clubs specifically aimed at disadvantaging Newcastle Utd. I believe this is not just unlawful but potentially criminal. Newcastle can't take the Premier League to a real court, rather than arbitration (because that is an undertaking every club has to make to join) - but Amanda Staveley could, on the grounds that she has suffered a loss because of the impact of these rules on the club's value, and hence the value of the shares she sold. Potentially anyone who could demonstrate a loss of some kind could also take the Premier League to court. Where that could all end, I don't know, but it is certainly not the case that a few tweaks to the rules makes this all go away.
Definitely not it needs looking into by Newcastle utd its discrimination about are owners simple as that . Racism at it finest.
By far the most unbiased discussion I've heard from non-fan channel on the APT judgement. Well done!
@@Steineger-t6m it does not take a lot to research Martin’s views and his so called independence.
Just so impressive!!!!!! Wow!!!!
It's not a victory for City. It is a victory for law and order. the Scams in football and shady practices have been brought out into the light.
It's a victory of fairness.
It is a victory for law and order and therein a victory also for Manchester City and fairness.
If it wasn’t for city, these unlawful rules would still be in place.. a big win for city and the footballing community
As a city fan ive found martin samuels observations on the club..enlightening and considered..he saw the emperor was naked many blue moons ago
I have a major issue with any rules which prevent a club in the Championship for example, dreaming of being taken over by a wealthy man/group/whoever and reaching for the top. And why are Newcastle being deliberately held back?? The rules were set in place for one purpose - to attack Manchester City (and middle -east ownership in general) - in my opinion - the best run club in world soccer both on and off the pitch - at the behest of the old 'elite'; the red-tops and their media lovvies, for no other reason than professional jealousy and that alone!! Well done City. Now lets drive a coach and horses through the other string of this attack, the so-called 115 charges - all of which I believe are utter boll*cks. The PL leadership is not fit for purpose. And I can't wait for the wails of anguish as these other clubs are forced to pay back loans... I suspect some clubs may find themselves dropping a few divisions al la Porthsmouth and it won't be City!!
Why do sky sports keep showing the statement the premier league put out...we clearly won and sky shud retract that false statement.
Because sky with TNT are in bed with premier league and do not want to upset them.
Sky don’t like city. They’re all man United .
Because they are the paymasters 💰💰they run the premier league
PSR has nothing to do with protecting clubs from going bust, if it was the rules would be based around debt. PSR is about the EPL executives working in cahoots with the big 6 to safe guard their position at the top. Making sure those clubs can spend and others can’t. I believe it to be corruption plain and simple. It’s easy to make rules that protect clubs from going bust and stop someone from running away with it by pumping an obscene amounts of money in. Limit the amount of debt you can have and have a maximum amount any club can spend on wages and transfer fees. The problem with this is it creates a level playing field and the EPL is not about fair it’s about servicing the needs of the big 6.
It is clear that City were targeted in 2014 and that Newcastle were targeted in 2021 and in february 2024. It is facile of the PL to say otherwise. The emails to the PL from interested parties immediately after the Newcastle takeover show clearly that they were. Stefan Borson, financial football expert on Talksport and a lawyer says that it will take a very long time to agree any new APT rules otherwise they will be sued again by some club or other. They cannot be rushed through. City have also been targeted in the 115, now 130 charges. Any good prosecutor knows full well that you choose your best charges so as to make a case manageable. Instead of 10-12 weeks of trial, this should be 2 weeks and only about inflated sponsorship and nothing else-especially the length of the grass and the small beer, financially, of the Mancini and Toure charges..
Nope it's about adug paying Etisalats and etihads sponsorship money that was inflated to start with , its about signing up to a set of rules and then trying to circumvent them ...project longbow , the der spiegal articles and the leaked emails prove that
Interesting discussion, took the emotion out of the issue. I would imagine that NUFC may now have a sizeable legal claim in respect of actions against the EPL and potentially even individual clubs. The consortium bought NUFC on the basis of an existing set of rules. This case shows without any doubt now, that the rules were changed very specifically and with the sole focus to prevent NUFC becoming competitive in a sporting sense. That being the case it would appear perfectly possible that NUFC could now initiate an action or series of actions. It can’t be reasonable to permit the purchase of the club to go through on the basis of existing rules and then change the rules to stop you trading as you would have done. Interesting times.
Great shout, Newcastle should join city. West Ham hav 3rd richest owners, Ipswich 7th...all cld really challenge the top 6 if free from ridiculas rules.
@@jamesmilligan2797 weren't West Ham a witness for the Premier League?
@@BillyfromConsett yeah, i dont get it
City should sue the PL for lost income😅
Why don’t you just run the league?
They will as the judges invited them to
We do😅
@@wayneholness6090 we only want fairness and justice
They will claim the loses from the two major deals, could cost the premier league around £50 million
The rules would be unlawful in ANY other industry. They were only supposed to gaurentee a club wouldnt go bust. Get rid!!!
So shareholder loans can still bankrupt a team like Portsmouth?? So what’s the point of psr?
100% what I came here to say. In what world can they claim these rules were about stopping clubs being ruined by owners, when the very thing that ruined Portsmouth was never changed.
To keep the red cartel in the top of the league. Join the fight
'come for the king, you better not miss...'
Love that 👍
Man united 1 billion in debt but that's allowed 😢
Yup
Thats true @@peternufc1981
@@peternufc1981the point you're missing is that the glazers shouldn't of been allowed to buy united by paying a fraction and lumping the debt onto the club
The red cartel thinking they have a divine right to be the top of the tree is the problem. End that with an independent regulator and we can move on with fair rules that can be applied impartially to all clubs. They do not want to let go of power that's the real issue, always has been.
You talk about a red cartel but the truth is that without united Liverpool and arsenal you have no league , citeh Newcastle villa etc could be kicked out of the league tomow and nobody would bat an eyelid, people pay around the world to watch them 3 legacy club united and Liverpool along with the likes of real, barca , juve ,Milan are all legacy clubs , you're claiming that you want a level playing field but want clubs that are owned and back by countries , oil states at that to be competing with clubs owned by businessmen, even billionaire businessmen cannt compete with petro states or are you trying to claim that they can ?
The best and most informed podcast I’ve seen on this subject so far 👍
As long as PL is governed by the CEOs of the big clubs or any clubs, it can never recover because their interests lie with their respective clubs, not PL
This is what law is all about a defence and prosecutor and it up to the prosecutor to find the defence guilty by putting very cleaver minds up against one another in a court of law and this is what makes law fascinating because if your cleaver enough you can find the point that will win the case. The Premier League are playing games and now we have some serious players taking them to court and showing the Premier League to be unlawful.
Newcastle have a great case against them they have been shocking with us . The behaviour is not acceptable. I hope Newcastle pursue them for damages
God Martin is hard watch, he’s feeling his way through this.
He’s a reporter not a financial expert.
The teams like Manchester United, arsenal, Liverpool where the teams that were dominate when the premier league started. In turn the premier league, Sky and these teams came together trying to stop Manchester City from winning this argument with the premier league. These are the teams that are going to suffer most from this result.
Arsenal - director loan
Manchester United - producing financial losses year on year.
Liverpool - American owners not being able to compete with Saudi owners.
Good. Let’s hope the American clubs get what’s coming to them
And there you have it!!! From a credible source!
Having a big lawyer who makes a good argument against a bad rule isn't a bad thing. They only help us think through our decisions before they become law. To make sure the rules we set are unimpeachable and can stand the test of time
Why dont people talk about why the EPL make these decisions, could it be that the EPL would/could be influenced by a certain 3 clubs, surely not time and investigative journalism will tell
The rules weren't changed over 2 months, it was 5 days after the Newcastle takeover!!!!
Excellent analysis
I honestly think man city will bring the Premier league down... The PL have literally targeted clubs to stifle whilst allowing rules to let certain clubs prosper.. we're the words... abused it's dominant position! PL is finished...
The only thing important about PSR is maintaining the competitiveness of the league, not stopping people going bust. The latter is easily dealt with. The former is the issue, because without a competitive league, the attraction of the EPL will fade rapidly, which will only benefit other leagues.
The simple fact is the premier league is a market and has to comply with company and competition law and thus is the fact no one is stating and they know it’s a market and that competition law is the foundation of the law that governs the clubs as a business which are registered companies
You sell clubs to nation states and then don’t let them to invest in their club, so what’s the point of them buying it, why do you want to protect the old guard to make sure no one else can be successful
I’ll say it in a way the you Brits will understand “messeth around and you shall findeth out”. All those clubs with loans submitting evidence against City only to have the light shined on them.
I recall all the articles by journalists piling onto City, very few, probably just one, ever presented a fair view. That’s why I believe they should in their byline state which club they support themselves. When FFP was being first talked about I knew it would be bad for City. To totally ignore debt was totally irresponsible. Any financial adviser would tell you to sort your debt.
i enjoyed this for being the most unbiased discussion on the APT... it didn't end with Man City just being victors but more of an introspective look at how the the PL and all stakeholders need to navigate the current waters
Simon Jordan is such a genius, he thinks City fooled such experienced judges. Shareholder loans were only excluded to appease the legacy clubs like Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool who used shareholder loans extensively.
Thank you guys are such an unbiased fair assessment of the judgement.
I guess these shareholder loans can be deemed unfair or even unlawful (although in normal business they are not unlawful). A proper interest can be required to be shown in the books. I'm baffled because this does not seem very complicated. Loans are completely different from sponsorship deals as loans will not (they should not) be revenue in the books whereas sponsorship is revenue. Revenue will directly affect how much money a club can use for salaries and transfer fees etc. according to the spending rules. So these loan wrongdoings are peanuts compared to sponsorship wrongdoings and are also completely different thing. Why the spin?
Hence why city stood alone wanting an independent regulator
The fact that Everton were actually backing Manchester City is the most hilarious part of this story. They drag themselves into even worse situations.
Not necessarily, if the takeover happens, I think they'll write off the shareholder loans.
it's forgot also that rules can be designed. And designed to be manipulative through design. This is why independent bodies have to be engaged to examine the unfair and unlawful.
The Red Cartel have corrupted Richard Masters and the Premier League. It needs to be broken and rebuilt with fairness and transparency
Too many american owners in the Premier league who now have far too much influence...how can clubs in debts up to a billion be allowed to spend more than clubs who have no debt and owners who are ready and willing to invest in not only the clubs but the surrounding areas ???? Absolute mental
Never thought id see Jimmy Tarbuck on, chatting about footy... ohh ho
Incompetent as usual.. bias against certain clubs is disgraceful and I’m glad it’s all come out now.. and the more you look into premier leagues actions you find more incompetent behaviour..
There is no reset button😂😂😂
Masters will be seeking counsel from the CEO's of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham & Man Ure before deciding what to do next. He's like a dancing monkey!
Targeted clubs : City (owned by an UAE), Newcastle (By a Saudi) and Everton (By an Iranian). Let's just get to the point, they just don't like middle eastern, don't want them to strive and ofc they are leaning more towards being in favor to american ownership that are only interested in making profits instead of investing or even have vision for their owned clubs. And they used to have no problem with Russian ownership, but since the war, they were obligated to have problem with it too.
The point you are missing is you cannt have a nation state funding a club especially a perto state and expect clubs owned by businessmen to be able to compete with them , even if them businessmen are billionaires , nothing to do with where they are from they are countries ffs 🤔!!!!!
And now huge compensation to be pad to City. All coming from the fees the other clubs pay.
How can they afford to compensate Newcastle United, they have been stopped from progressing and even forced to sell players. What value can anyone put on that.
So cheesy the music at this club, and seems like a sausage fest.
Man City won big , don't make me laugh the only thing they did was to strengthen the rules
God Bless our hero Martin Samuels.... who's one of the VERY FEW who've stuck up for City over the years. A statue awaits you Martin at the Etihad... probably next to Pep's....in three years time mind you!↗️☑️🍺
115 comments. 🤣
The world is full of hypocrites. City accused of cheating the system by a corrupt PL who cheated the system.
We will see when the 115 verdict is in personally I still think citeh are fucked , you signed up to rules and then broke them rules adug paying the bulk of the etihad and Etisalat sponsorship money is cheating and fraud , I actually agree with citehs points about Liverpool and arsenal getting loans off their owners but the papertrail that was the leaked football leaks emails , project longbow , the leaked emails and der spiegal articles proves skullduggery on citehs part , if you rob a bank and I steal your getaway car 🚗 you've still robbed the bank haven't you lol the same with citeh still broken the rules imo we will have to wait and see if the verdict comes back that citeh are innocent a lot of people will have to eat humble pie , 🥧 me included lol but citehs actions of dragging it out for 6 years, 35 of the charges are for that , aren't the actions of an innocent party , and I don't see how you get away with them charges , look you got a lawyer on £1000 per hour he will do his best to look for loopholes to get you off , we will see
they will win in the end sheep will follow when they change the rules
They haven’t won “big”. The premier league still won many of the arguments. This isn’t over yet.
It doesn’t matter if the the majority didn’t go through 1 Is enough and for the premier league to have rules that are unlawful is absolutely disgrace. And also to target the gulf region is an again a disgrace.
The red cartel and the premier league are at fault for all this mess
@@madeinengland9488 if you’re a city fan wouldn’t you want your club to win fairly? I mean if there has been multiple investigations against my team I wouldn’t want the ownership to stay. Teams wouldn’t be against city if there haven’t been problems off the pitch
@@essa616Yet you don’t need the brains of an Archbishop to know City are innocent exactly as CAS stated.
They were accused of breaking rules. They denied it & won the case. Just because the rules are still in place doesn't mean anything. They're guilty of nothing & have shown the PL to be corrupt, abusing their power to target clubs. It's black & white. I'm amazed people can't comprehend what's unfolding. 🤦🏻♂️
I’m done watching Arab football. I.e. English soccer.
This is really daft discussion what this case has done is to strengthen the APT rules by ensuring such loans are captured. In reality these loans are in substance equity, what the owners of these clubs can do is to convert these to equity its really a non story, Sensationalism at its best. APT rules exist in Europe and UK there are there to ensure fair competition. F1 and most sports have caps to ensure integrity of the sport.
Would the issue not be there that some of these people may want their money back at some point.
Not wen its backdated like some of Man City charges.
I know right? Martin Samuel is almost certainly on their payroll.
There is nothing 'seismic' about this, pure garbage from the Times
But if the apt rules aren't in the rules aren't lawful, so do they fix the rules back to the start, if they do what happens to all the things that changes and who has been relegated unfairly or escaped punishment, equally if you do t go back and fix it retrospectively the rules are unlawful and anyone disadvantaged by that could take action for damages
dood that statement is daft your not listening - Unlawful is unlawful it means any charge related to those rules in past 10 years is over .. you will get sued back into amtuer football if you try to enforce that kind of garbage .. EPL is run by a bowling club board level of IQ
Big money buys the titles and now that same big money is changing the rules of the game to benefit themselves and other big money teams. GameOver. #MoneyMoneyMoney
This is pretty daft stuff from the Times. The rules need some fixing, big deal.
The rules are potentially invalid and Forest and Everton have been punished under unlawful rules, equally had the rules been correct Everton would have been relegated and someone has been relegated unfairly. City have been incorrectly denied sponsorship as have potentially Forest , Chelsea and Newcastle , there are some big big problems now.
The rules are potentially invalid and Forest and Everton have been punished under unlawful rules, equally had the rules been correct Everton would have been relegated and someone has been relegated unfairly. City have been incorrectly denied sponsorship as have potentially Forest , Chelsea and Newcastle , there are some big big problems now.
@@richie5240 but none of this means the APT and FMV system is invalid. It just means it needs to be improved. The claims that City won actually sound reasonable. But there is nothing that City can really take away from here to their defence of the 115 charges.
@richie5240 neither of those clubs failed because of the issues brought up in this case. Everton actually benefitted the most from those shareholder loans. So they'd have had a higher points deduction. This case is about fair market value for related party's and what constitutes related party's.
@@nichobee city will win the 115 case
How can Martin Samuel’s view be taken seriously on anything to do with Man City when it’s well known his son has a cushy job at City itself ?
Everyone has a moment when you think “na footballs done for me” mine was in 2022 when the bind of culture/family/media/mysticism between myself and football was just snapped in half. The sport gets worse by the week and I recommend everyone to consider your relationship with the sport. Does anyone enjoy the premier league in its current format when all thats discussed is crude oil prices, multi club ownership and VAR? If city win this case it’ll open the door for newcastle et al to get worse, if city lose this case it’ll end up in an increased effort to force the super league and play matches abroad
We City fans enjoy it because we trust our owners and just watch our team win. But I was thinking the same back in the days when United dominated tho. I guess it's all a matter of how you look at things.
@@Herbalattraction3000 man united didnt win 5 in a row. Their dominance was never on the pitch and in court
@04mdsimps no, they just won 13 of 12 PL titles and 2 UCLs. They didn't win in courte because there were no rules. They coukd spend whatever they wanted, and did. Utd, afc and lfc are tye ones drafting the rules, which is why there shareholder loans were OK. Because it helped them. They're drafting rules to target competitors.
@@russellward4624 well they didnt win 13 out of 12. I’m not discussing politics and international law either
@@russellward4624 great point. It does appear that some clubs have done what they liked for years, then brought in rules to stop others doing the same.
If you’re charged with five murders, but only found guilty of two you are still a murderer.