How to remove buzzing/noise from a cheap Bluetooth Music Receiver? (Experiment)
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In this video I will be having a look at the buzzing/noise problem that cheap bluetooth music receiver can create. I faced this problem in a previous video of mine but used an easy fix to get around it. But this time we will find out why a buzzing problem can occur and how we can fix it. Let's get started!
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Music:
2011 Lookalike by Bartlebeats
(incompetech.com)
It kinda hurt when you clipped that 3.5mm's cable so close to the connector.
Ya
Ya
ikr
u can always reuse the jack if u get that plastic off but it would be simpler to just leave some wire
That was such a low en cable that you wouldnt want to use the connector anyway.
GreatScott: Doesn't say *Let's get started*
Me: WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH SCOTT?!
I am sorry :-( It just did not fit.
Lol
Actually, his name is Jeremy.
@@greatscottlab no problem xD
I thought "Lets find out" was a reasonable substitution for "Lets get started" considering the video`explicitly states "(Experiment)". Though we could have done without the "in this video".
I recently research on this problem . I found that there is problem in bluetooth receiver ground ( no proper thickness of track ) so it do not allow proper flow of current so i connect ic ground with a wire with main ground with additional wire. (very very very very cheap solution)
Hmmmm I did not try that.
@@greatscottlab pin this post!
Good to know. Will try it.
Two notes from somebody who has used these little all-in-one isolated 1W or 2W power supply modules in projects before:
-These devices are typically *unregulated* (including the specific one shown here), meaning that especially at very light loads, their output voltage can be substantially above the rated 5V and they will vary dramatically depending on the load current.
-The power supplies usually have very high idle power consumption (5-20mA is typical) and also low conversion efficiency at low load. This makes them quite unsuitable for battery powered applications unless you can shut the converter off completely during idle times and your active circuit power is well above the idle consumption of the converter.
Check the datasheets carefully before specifying one of these in a design - most of the graphs sneakily only show efficiency/regulation starting from 10%-20% of rated load, and their behaviour is *much* worse below those points! For light loads, this can be a big issue.
For some reason when using one of these its introduces somewhat a static hiss into my Bluetooth receiver and I do not know why? Any ideas ? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
@@rashad5286 a little late but put about 5k resistor in parallel to the isolated converter's output to create a light load, so the voltage is stable. Without this your bluetooth connection could break when no music is played due to the voltage unstabilities.
Any other issue you're encountering such as hissing are due to your receiver itself and you can verify this by powering it with another battery.
I built a mic and amp circuit from a salvaged electret mic from a cheap headset and a LM386 as an amp. 3 volt coin cell for the mic and 9v batt for the amp, with gain and volume controls. Whenever I turned the gain or vol up, terrible hum, like a horn. I could see the oscillation on the scope. Separating the grounds fixed the problem. Now I can use it to hear previously undetectable air leaks. THANK YOU for the solution to the problem !!
First of all thank you for discovering such a problem. I've been suffered with this problem for a long time. Finally you revealed it. It was such a great demonstration with diagnosing & resolving. I think it's a prefect solution for those noises & it's pretty easy to solve it. Keep rocking Scott, stay creative 😉
I've thought that he will teatch how to remove the: "butu dewice ready to pail" sound when u turn on any speaker
Someone should create/sell a mod kit that mutes the speaker for like 2 seconds when it's powered on or something, tho a better solution probably exists
Exactly what i was thinking.. i was a bit disappointed lol
Lmao ikr i hate that fucking sound so much 😂
@@shutdahellup69420 They say its programmed via computers.
you forgot : 'the butu dewice iss connectedya succesffulaay"
Two other areas you could look into are: a lower impedance ground between amp and receiver as well as better supply decoupling on the output of the 5v regulator. The decoupling network needs to take into consideration the frequency content of the receiver in order to decouple successfully.
Literal i need this 4 hours ago 😂
I love you baby marry me
Same here
The 1:1 transformer in between the audio did not work as the two grounds were still connected. If the 1:1 transformer was used two separate the grounds it would work, however, you of course can not do that with DC so you have to use a switching converter. This is precisely what the DCDC converter is; a transformer with switching power supply. I think it would have been good if you would have mentioned this in the video.
Correct me if im wrong but in the 1:1 isolation transformers grounds are not connected. Isolation transformers can filter out DC interference voltages. The interference that we saw in the osciloscope was actually an oscillation that via induction was created in the secondary winding of the transformers there.
If you ask me, biggest mistake in this video is that he forgot to mention "the" solution - proper star ground connection
this video gave me the solution , that i was looking for over an year ..
i am not an electrical expert , but i also did build my own music system and faced this problem .. and after a year later .. now.. i found the solution here
THANKS
Excellent solution. You can also measure the voltage between the 5V negative rail of the receiver and the 3.5mm ground, when thereceiver is powered on. In my case (slight different receiver board) I measured a 3.3V difference between the 2 "grounds", that definitely means the receiver need a galvanic 5V separate source.
Noise is the bane of audio projects, thanks my dude.
I powered my Samsung 10" tablet that I integrated in to my car by wiring directly to the car's cigarette lighter power feed, however, this created this same ground loop effect. I overcame that by buying a hefty 12v > 5v DC/DC isolating converter, but it was quite expensive, as I wanted it to be quite a high Amp rating in order to charge the tablet whilst using it. Great video!!
3:19 Scott: "So where do they come from?"
Me: _No._
My Brain: "Where did they go?! Where did they come from, Cotton-Eyed-Joe!"
Me: *NOOOO*
Go for the eyes boo!
DC to DC isolator is the best of the best solution for diy amplifier projects. It helped me removing the buzz noise!
I was just making this as part of a college project and stumbled upon the same problem. Thanks a lot Great Scott, it's like you read my mind.
He is the best
Wow the exact same thing happened with my friend!
@@wasaybaig1519 XD
Lol
Why didn't you say "let's get started"? You're not Scott, I need answers
I just did not fit this time. Sorry. Next time.
@@greatscottlab let's find out could have been replaced 😁
"Lets find out, in this video." 0:52
Scott but not Great
What if you put some inductors in series to the power lines and some caps in parallel?
I though the same thing
Me three. If the spikes are caused by a current spike/drop the best thing might be to simply add a buffer cap. Not sure about the inductor though, at these low frequencies I have some doubts whether that would work, this is usually done for high frequency filtering.
I always do that back then.Just solder 2500 microfarad 16v capacitor parallel to the supply wires in the Bluetooth module.
@@danielegger6460 Inductor is for the back emf so just to create a local emi/c condition. Much like a diode or small value resistor before the converter to create a smaller loop area. any noise from the local supply is dropped to ground.
Have you tried it? Maybe lifting the ground from the BLE end shielding?
Great scott: I couldn't find the amp
Me: LOOK ON YOUR CEILING
Oh man you’re a master, you produce videos of all the questions I used to have some years back and never had an answer to
Usually i just solved this by disconnecting the audio ground. Quick and dirty but it worked.
Theres no noise if there is no audio!
This is a good answer, as the ground is common, there is no need to introduce a ground loop. It's also important to use buffer and filter capacitors near the consumer (in this case near the bt receiver AND near the amp).
Works well for the XS 3868 tbh
@@dusinnhht what capacity would you recommend?
i love those tiny DC to DC modules, they are so freaking handy.
Yeah
But they waste energy
@@ProtoMan137 ist egal
The ground loop isolator is used when your amp and source are on separate connections
The point of it is to stop one device using the other as a ground.
Additionally a ground loop is characterised by a 50 or 60 Hz continuous humm, the fact that it has a repetitive load (likely when the Bluetooth is transmitting it's beacon) shows it is not a ground loop
Shows an ad for JLC PCB... *Doesn't use a pcb for doing this and uses something else*
Many promote VPN services but never use them on videos. It might have something to do with the target audience.
What he is doing here is prototyping, you don't manufacture PCB's for prototypes.... If he was making a finished design with an enclosure etc then you would make a PCB since you have a circuit you know works.
You can get sponsored and promote things without actually using them?
@@yeet1337 yeah... but what i said was a joke
@@yeet1337 I've understood the sponsors just send an email they'd be wishing to promote their product.
Most interesting, many thanks, stopped me from chasing red herrings and focus on the simple fact that the noise comes from the power rail. This led me to a simple fix ... Starting with an existing power amp with a single rail 20V supply I used a 7905 to create a ground that is 5V below the positive rail. This creates a split supply to power my op amp based front end. The op amp doesn't care that the rails are asymmetric +5V and -15V. The Bluetooth audio module powered from the +5V rail produced a massive amount of noise but a 5mH inductor (a few windings on a toroid core,
I wish I could isolate my grounds and remove my tinnitus :(
Is it already soldered in place? You could just scrap it and start over if your project is that botched.
@@Allocated_Brain Maybe I'm.just not getting the joke, but OP has tinnitus, a hearing issue which causes annoying fake tones to be heard when the sufferer is in silence.
@@aathish04 The joke is that OP as the 'project' is faulty at a fundamental level requiring a whole replacement unit.
It's 2020 and still no cure. It should be the future damn it!
It's being worked on. They've already figured a way to "reflow" the "pcb" to fix bad connections between components so right now it's just a matter of looking at the diagram to figure out where to point the inductive antenna.
rTMS is a helluva thing, it's going to be BIG in the 2020's.
A lot of that noise can be removed by adding extra capacitance to the power supply rails for the bluetooth device, along with making it the common ground point for the project, so that the long cables to the input are not adding resistance to the ground path. 220uF 10V capacitor directly across the 5V pins into the unit will improve performance a lot, as the regulator output impedance rises with frequency, they are not good at reducing high frequency noise, you need low ESR capacitors near the load to do that.
This guy and diy perks complete each other
You know what i find most interesting in this video? Your amplifier. It uses an unbiased output stage where you're simply forcing the opamp to slew right over the required approx 1V bias voltage gap of the output transistors, and to somewhat smooth out the resulting switching atrocity, you have a feed forward resistor. This is actually kinda cool. According to my simulation, not quite hi-fi, but cool.
I often do skip the intro music on channels but not yours. Love that music
Thank you so much for making this video
I was facing the same problem when I hooked up the receiver to my cars basic music system. Now I will be able to smack down the interference noises.
Keep it up👍👌
I searched the whole internet for this before with no suitable results! Thanks!
I had the same problem. And I tried the same methods and stayed at DC/DC converter, the best method. I really didn't realize what the problem is, if the amplifier and the bluetooth receiver have the same grounding, thanks for the explanation GreatScott xD
Greatscott: let‘s find out in this video!
Me: huh ? Who are you
Well I found a simpler solution that worked for me.
A) Find the feed of the 12V to your amplifier and connect there. Don't use the PCB traces closest to the amplifier IC. Instead get closest to the power supply feed.
B) Use thick wires to feed the LM7805 regulator! This makes all the difference. Don't use wire (single copper conductor). Use thick cable (many conductors). For me 16 AWG eliminates all the noise. After your linear regulator IC you can use smaller cable.
Most of people who working in audio industries are in trouble due to interference noise in their audio system but your idea to isolate ground with DC to DC Converter is awesome
I have the same problem, and i really struggled to find a soloution for this. Thank you really much for explaining this problem and showing some soloutions! It kinda saved my day.
Add some bypass capacitors across R1,R2 to to decouple your amplifier's virtual ground (pin3) from supply fluctuations. If you use the isolation transformers then you can connect your input signal ground to this point as well.
Thank you greatt scott i learn a lot waching all your videos
Keep up the good work👍
You're welcome and thank you :-)
Not to long ago I was looking for this exact solution but no video could resolve my issue, but I'm glad you have made a video about it.
I enjoy even the way that Scott writes (left handed).
this problem bust my ass for 7 years on every project and even electronic teachers tell me use two battery on adaptors thank you manso so much
funny that i did this experiment last year when adding BT OVCxxxx module to my car stereo's tape deck preamp output. Isolation transformers were a nogo but i remembered that i had some of those isolated DC-DC converters and it was perfect. I ended up using an ATtiny to monitor the tape deck motor outputs to simulate the encoder signals and give the bt module the ability to skip and prev songs using the OEM controls.
So wish l had your knowledge and Time as l'm getting a little old now going for 67 in couple of days.
Still l enjoy to see you solve problems for so many , thank you for sharing.
Scott, you did the fix with the DC DC converter, but didn't explain the part or part number (handwriting looks like B05055 instead of S) and instead linked products in the description that weren't used, without linking any examples of what to actually use. I appreciate the help solving my problem! But you did all this work to still have viewers going down a rabbit hole of research to figure out what to buy!
One can also use a 12v to 5v 1W DC-DC converter and eliminate the 5v regulator. The B1205S.
Thanks Greatscott, I would need ground isolation for my school's buggy project where there are sensor, motor, and control subsystems involved.
Boi i've been having the same problems, I tried to connect two different amps together to form a bigger amp with a separate line for smaller speakers. And i got a crazy buzzy noise. I just gave up on that project because there was nothing i can do. I will try the DC/DC converter method. I just hope its available here at my local stores. Thanks for making this video mate!
Helpful information. I like your video
This video is super useful for my factory radio bluetooth mod (Added bluetooth to my cars factory head unit).
What about disconnecting the audio ground from one end (receiver)
It's common that the main part of an audio system is the hub of all grounds, anything remote that is powered from the same supply uses the supply ground, with the audio ground disconnected, but in the case of a sceeened cable the screen is connected to the amplifier only
Power grounds would still be connected, so audio inputs would use that as audio ground.
Correct, but it's only one ground, not the 'hum loop' that i think is causing the problem
@@sparkyprojects this isnt a hum loop, its oscillating from feedback. What probably more likely happening is the power sugres in the audio amp are affecting the bluetooth ground, causing a feedback loop
@@researchandbuild1751 As far as I see it, there is no feedback, just big enough load-pulses from the bluetooth module to create a voltage shift on amp-ground vs bluetooth module-ground.
The fix is probably isolation, or really good ground connection (like soldering the board directly to amp-ground without wires using a solid connection). Analog ground/differential inputs amplifier should also do the trick.
Adding capacitors to power input of the bluetooth module itself may also help.
Wish I saw this video a week ago. I fixed a modeling guitar amp for a guy in my area and had this issue. I messed with chokes and filter caps all over the show and eventually returned the amp to it's owner. In your signal, I can clearly hear mains hum. In mine it was mains hum then a high pitch on top of that. Kind of like mains hum becoming the high pitch sound as capacitors filled up. Wish I had more time to figure it out.
my dad have the same problem
and then i remember your video and show it to my dad
this was helpfull
I just searched for that and 3 days later GreatScott loaded up a video
@GreatScott! Man i bought the exact same Bluetooth module 2 years ago and never managed to get around this buzzing noise. I can now finally finish building my diy bluetooth speaker, thanks so much❤
I have got rid of the noise by disconnecting audio ground at the bluetooth receiver end. I didnt have high hopes but it is working for me.
Good topic for proff audio stuff. Ground is always important.
Hey Scott! I used this same technique in my creative desktop speaker pair a year earlier and it works great. Thanks for shedding some light on this matter. Nice job man! 👍
As a point of clarification and question of uncertainty, the only reason the ground loop isolator didn't work for you is because the bluetooth transmitter and the amplifier shared power sources right (which means their shared ground was still connected through the PCB board and 5v regulator)?
Considering at 05:12 when you built up a 2 mains power supply circuit to prove it solves the issue, then I wanted to be sure why the purchased ground loop isolator didnt work, considering it's designed to eliminate ground loop interference caused by 2 devices with separate power sources (or technically their own power adapters plugged into the same AC circuit), then it thus failed to remove the interference since interference was being caused from the ground shared on the PCB level and not through the shared ground introduced by the audio cable.
I also wanted to clarify, since I'm not an expert on electricity or audio for that matter and am wanting to make sure I didn't just order a ground loop isolator for nothing (but will find out tomorrow I guess), if the DC to DC converter acting as a DC rail isolator only worked because it then separated the ground at the PCB level?
Lastly, would the fact that at 07:42 when you tested the final solution, the audio could have been affected by the magnetism introduced by it's USB A end which was stuck to the magnetic ring of the speaker and would've magnetized the ground connection to the PCB or not really?
Honestly asking to make sure I understand these concepts correctly since I'm trying to learn how it all works exactly.
Your solution with the different power supplies seems to work for my case where I wanted to connect a TDA7498 with a seperate bluettoh module... Thanks!
HERE IN NICARAGUA WE CANT DO IT EASY BUT I WILL thanks to the master Greats
Disconnect the audio ground from the amp input and use a thick, short piece of copper wire to link the BT and amp grounds together. Connecting BT power ground and BT Audio ground together creates a ground loop! Additionally add a lowpass filter with 22ohm resistor and 1000uF capacitor before the 5v regulator to dampen the current spikes.
Common mode noise is a real bugger sometimes. DC isolation is the go to fix for it although sometimes it can be eliminated (or at least sufficiently attenuated) in the IF stage with ferrite beads or an RF choke coil. If you were dealing with radar frequencies even PCB foil trace placement and pathways are a solution.
Great video. Removes my wondering why the electronics side of the Roland Bridgecast mitigates sound using a ground loop isolator fine. Where as, with the input on a SP-404 MK II the inteference from ground is still present. It's in the circuitry that it can't be helped with the same solution.
Pick a 5V regulator that has an extended PSRR frequency range. Like the Texas Instruments TPS7A4901 (also comes in negative polarity versions if you need it). I use these to power highly sensitive, load cell signal processing circuits. Be sure to use ferrite beads and common mode chokes on the input to the 5V regulator.
Also consider that the Bluetooth receiver may not meet FCC-B. Try separating the Bluetooth receiver from the other audio equipment.
In principal, a proper LC filter, (note, not simply a capacitor) should do the trick with something like this, if spec'ed properly for the interference in question.
I wonder how much a simple inductor would help, just to resist changes in current
Cant you put a capacitor in paralell on the 5V line, so that it smoothes out the interfierance?
I tried by myself. doesn't work.
@@SyazwanSaidan Maybe some higher capacity capacitors.
If you added it in series you would form an open circuit as soon as it charged.
@@AtlasReburdened This happens with direct current since the voltage is constant, but rember that an audio signal (and any type of signal) isn't constant. A capacitor put in series between a signal and an aplifier is actually used to remove offset voltage.
@@AtlasReburdened Yeah i ment parralel
I was contemplating removing the logic from my Soundbar and replacing with my own setup similar to this (ideally retaining buttons and inputs). I may have to open it up and inspect it. It's a decent soundbar, but I don't like some of it's behavior (# of volume steps, auto-off delay, etc.).
Surely you just had a ground loop between the signal and power ground connections to the bluetooth adapters. All you had to do was put -say - a 10 ohm resistor in series with the signal ground.
great i was looking for this type of video thankyou man
THANK YOU so much
and as always amazing video
You're welcome :-)
@@greatscottlab :-)
Hey,
I can't look through all of these comments, but it seems you could use an opamp for ground isolation. Put say, a 100 ohm resistor between the grounds and use the opamp as a common mode isolator.
It's what I would use rather than a transformer.
I wish you had shown a clear view of the bottom of the isolator that you took apart so that we can see how it was made. We can guess how it was hooked up, but it's nice to be able to see how traces connected the components.
In a project i had the same problem as you and this solution comes to be the best one. Thanks a lot!!!
You should give your completed schematics in the end of the video or the description, so if we ever want to attempt such a test we can see where exactly the change occured.
Btw, YOU ARE AWESOME DUDE. I mean it.
Many Chinese boards feature this bt module in conjunction with one of these 5v isolated ws0505 something... Modules. This is however expensive (~1 usd). I do not know why they don't use an audio isolation transformer. An audio isolation transformer can be as cheap as 50cents from China. For single channel use this is cheaper than the isolated DC DC module.
The problem itself is that the Bluetooth ic doesn't feature a common ground. The audio output ground has a different potential than the power ground. So you need some kind of galvanic isolation.
Probably since a audio transformer would affect the audio some. (bass responce, e.t.c.)
Audio do cover a quite a wide frequency range.
Just add a series 10 ohm resistor to module vcc input and a 220uF bypass capacitor between vcc and gnd. That removes most of the audible noise.
hey bro i noticed on cheap mouses that there are empty places on the pcb where there should be components but there arent. can you do a comparison to see if you complete the empty spots if it brings a difference or not.
BT audio out GND joins the power ground of the amp board and creates a loop, also your daisy chain ground system is "no no" for audio / analog designs. Use a star ground configuration to a low impedance point like a main filter cap and interrupt the loop created by BT aout GND. Potentially I'd try to connect BT aout GND via 100n cap to non-inverting input of your amp ( pin3) to run the amp in differential mode. 12V/2 DC bias circuit should be bypassed by a cap and then brought to pin 3 via serial resistor eg 10k. Sure there are more options, but DC-DC isolation for such a basic circuit is an overkill.
Have you also tried to remove/modify the action sounds? Like “The bluetooth device is ready to pair” or “Phone connected”
Those are annoying as f
Every chinese device needs to speak, but WHY??????
@@fusseldieb Because chinese like "Fashion Sound"
Some times there is a programmed function to turn these off... like holding down the pair button or the play button or something.
@@adrigenvongarnerd i managed to reflash the flash ic to remove the sounds... as you can see in my video
Cheap small speakers are less prone to these noise problems , so one can get away with common supply to both Bluetooth and class D amps like PAM 8403. For Good quality high sensitivity speakers I find using seperate 5V SMPS like mobile chargers(everybody has atleast a dozen in attic) much more effective solution.
You solved one of the reason's for the annoying white noise mate... 🍻
Pin One analysis is useful. Cross talk/induced noise. Circuit vs. digital ground. Digital stuff is inherently dirty, as is switch mode power.
Thank you for going through all the effort of building up every possible solution just to educate us. Have a nice weekend.
A German guy cannot find something he stored some time ago? How is that even possible?
Exactly what i wanted to search.
I solve this problem by using just one single cable for ground on the bluetooth module, and one single cable for ground on the amplifier, but this cable must be short and very thick, connected to the power supply, And the noises almost dissapear, another solution is to insolate the ground feedback of the amplifier (the gain loop) so it became a kind of diferential amplifier with common mode rejection. That helps a lot, and using both of them you will not hear the noises.
wow man... this looks amazing and promosing... i have ground loop problem in my car with BT and phone adapter charger in 12V port
Thanks I used one of those DC DC things in the past and it works greats. There is always some smartass always telling you that you did somethig wrong in the amp or to put capacitors in stupid places. 99% of DIY BT speaker like this have this problem.
Was going to convert an old boom box into a Bluetooth one. Thanks for telling me about this issue I was going to face.
Great video sir and can you please make a video on fpga and verilog
It is on my to do list
Could we also possibly use a capacitor to store the 5 volt charge to try and prevent the current spikes? I was looking at the schematic and thought that maybe it would work then again idk. Probably better to use the dc to dc converter but, if you can get back to me with an answer about this that would be awesome. Stay creative dude
The best place to kill off noise is usually at the source rather than at the receiver. It's clear that your amplifier needs much better decoupling. This will reduce the output noise and improve the amplifier performance...
This is a great video I wish you got around to the gameboy sp pi build have been waiting forever... also wish you would do a designing circuits video series like your basics. I hope this doesn't come off wrong love your videos bro I just am a little intoxicated
I just added decoupling caps between the L and R channel to GND. It works without any problems.
What is the value of caps?
Stay Blessed keep up the good job. Im new to this but i can read it very simple and understand what your saying make sense. If you know or have anything/equipment not in use for a beginner for free/i wish or for not alot of $$$ i know but it doesn't hurt to ask. Thank you very much. New sub here for life. Thank you again.
If I remind correctly, the easiest solution is just a pair of resistors in parralel with amplifier input. The reason is that amp has a very high-ohm input, so it catches any interference. Resistors will gischarge any interference (irregardless of it's nature), but won't really affect signal.
I may be wrong, i'm not 100% sure. But I suggest try, then critique. Resistors could be somwhere in ballpark or hundreds ro thousands ohms.
im going to try this, maybe this can solve the problem. the converter dc-dc not work for me, this thing give me more problems than when i dont use it.
i used a dc to dc isolator too when i worked on my diy bluetooth speaker. worked perfectly
Did you check if the power supply ground of the USB bluetooth audio receiver is actually connected to the audio output ground? If not, then that's your problem.
This amplifier design is prone to amplify power supply noise. With this schematic to work with, I'd try to introduce the input signal at the positive opamp input. OR... try adding a capacitor of 220nF from the positive opamp input to ground.
As a person with electronics background I really enjoy you videos man. Keep up the good work!