Glad to hear this. I originally found this channel in 2015 looking for a helmet. Bought the Soumy Jump. I bought a 6D AR2 after suffering a concussion wearing the Jump. Had a nice 60 mph get off with the 6D, no concussion. Now I have the heavier Bell Moto 9 carbon flex. It’s heavier because of meeting the Snell standard. I’m all for the Euro standard. But truth be told, although the Bell is 4oz heavier than the 6D, it feels almost as light as the Soumy thanks to its superb fit and multi layered impact lining. After suffering over 8 concussions, riders like me need all the protection they can get.
How did the strap brackets go on your Suomy Jump. I think it was 2014 and 2015 they used those alloy brackets that just crumble to poweder and the strap fell off. Happened to mine after three years, just glad the strap fell off when putting the helmet on, not an actual crash!
@@crosstrainingenduro As far as I can tell. They’re firmly attached. I went to inspect them after reading your question, but if Soumy does one thing well, it’s making it very difficult to inspect them. They are buried behind padding that traps moisture. It’s almost as if they were deliberately trying to hide the brackets.
@@crosstrainingenduro A friend said this: “ The one I got in 2013 is still in good shape. No problems with the hardware at all” I really think the permanent padding over the buckles must be contributing to the rust. Not aware of the problem at the time, I’ve sprayed out the inside with a hose several times. I retired the helmet after the concussion but at least it was good for one crash.
Its great to see them improving, im still hoping FIM makes it to off-roading standards, i think that would be the great. Im really hoping these manufacturers are getting stricter and doing better, i have a DOT helmet but I’ll definitely be looking for ECE if possible next time. Keep up the good work, this channel is brilliant for this stuff I know, its blasphemy to recommend other channels but if you care about safety, especially in USA for the DOT standard, you’ll look at them and maybe learn something to keep your head safer, so heres two videos -Video to explain FIM and Fortnine, “Groundbreaking motorcycle helmets - Best of 2020” and at 6:42 he talks about FIM hinting to off road and what they are. Id also recommend being weary around DOT standards too -Fortnine “Uncovered - Dangerous Secrets of the DOT Helmet Standard” Again, say what you will but if safety is key, their worth a watch
I regularly refer to Fortnine vids, he does some great stuff! I know he's the frontman for a huge retail group but overall his reviews seem to be very honest and objective... rare qualities nowadays.
Barry, glad to see you are collaborated with eveRide! He has a great channel! Here in the US, we really appreciate all of the great Aussie content on TH-cam!. Shit, I might have to search for a new helmet due to my need for the best protective gear. Cheers!
Thanks mate, love that you're always getting this level of detail in the minds of us fellow riders. Will include this in our helmet section when we launch our site.
I would like to see the Emergency release a regular standard on helmets. Imagine getting an injury and its increased because it was difficult to get your helmet off.
And I can't imagine it adding more than a few dollars to the cost of the helmet. Currently I'm researching hearing loss from riding and it's surprising there's nothing in the standards about this. Some helmets actually amplify the wind noise at 500hz! We have a long way to go....
Thank you so much for this update, I greatly appreciate it. I was wondering if I could get your view on the Arai MX-V which is ECE 22.05 compliant. I have yet to notice any mentioning of that brand in your past reviews. Again many thanks and wishing you all a great new year.
I can't afford those helmets, Ariel. 😢 But essentially you can't go wrong with the Japanese brands. They are still made in Japan, whereas most other helmets are made in China, or at the very least the all important EPS foam liner is. One indication? We've had reports of rusted brackets from riders on many brands, but never an Arai or Shoei.
@@crosstrainingenduro True, Arai cost a small fortune. I was aiming to get one, but the wife said that the size of my brain does not warrant such an expensive purchase :-(
I think the biggest safety feature is to get a helmet with a variable density liner, even many of the cheap helmets are using these now. And if it comes with something like MIPS that reduces rotational forces that's not a bad secondary feature to have. And then just check those strap brackets for rust once or twice a year.
I thought long and about getting an Arai MK-V to replace my existing lid (Nolan) as I’ve used them for years on the road/track, including putting the R75 shell shape to good use by doing some breakdancing on it. The thing that put me off was Arai’s slow response to the previous impact tests (rightly or wrongly... they maybe felt they weren’t fit for purpose so didn’t fully adopt... may have also been a cultural issue in terms of accepting there was an issue and it was time to change) and that they seem to have been slow to come onboard with MIPS systems (only leading manufacturer without one). I have tested the R75 shell shape on tarmac, definitely works, will definitely but another Arai road helmet. However the conclusion I drew myself was that off-road your are less likely to have a glancing blow and more likely your helmet will dig in due to features of the terrain and the helmet geometry vs a road bike helmet (unless your strike rocks I guess...) and therefore rotational impact was of far greater importance off-road. In the end I went with the 6D ATR-2, its a very nice lid and on a par with the other premium brands like Arai, Shoei, etc (although IMHO Arai make the best overall quality helmets - based on years of Arai ownership, Quantum, Chaser, RX-7 - consistent across the ranges also). Another great video @crosstrainingenduro kudos for trawling the standards... I did the same when researching my new helmet. Decided it was worth the outlay as I get paid from the neck up and ride in the dunes of the UAE at quite often very high speeds... if you have an off, its going to be dull one.
I have an Airoh Terminator. Have crashed badly just once during my "second" career. Caught the peg on a chicane hay bale at a cross country race looking at the race clock for a second too much. Took a dive over the bars and had a Honda up my back. Had some marks under my chin from the strap, but I was ok and finished the race after beating the gear lever back to shape at the pits (so I could change gears). So far I trust my Airoh. Brackets show no sign of rust after about two years. After a few head stands at the MX track I got a new Terminator helmet. So far I'm happy and racing. I don't wear any neck braces and I'm at my late 30's. The Terminator is a nice option between light weight and price. At Long races at high speed my neck just can't take the beating of a 1500g helmet.
Helmet research showed that beyond 1500g is when the weight can begin to contribute to injuries. But it's definitely tiring, in our group most of us are using helmets around 1000 to 1250g. And lots of ventilation.
Both are good features, Jon! It's a shame they are all made in China nowadays though. I think a few pieces on the top line models might be made in the USA... and a bit of assembly?
My Bell Moto 9 Flex seems to check all your boxes. There are some lids out there that exceed standards. I would caution judging a helmet based on the certification. Focus on features and materials.
Most helmets exceed the standards, we've addressed some of the thing to look for in other vids. Unfortunately most Bell helmets are made in China now so only time will tell how this impacts on the quality. We've had a few reports of premature rust already.
I'm working with the theory that if I clean the sweat from my Airoh helmet after each ride it wont rust the brackets. 12 months in and all good so far.
I think they did move to stainless steel eventually, Trevor. Or so the USA distributor claimed. I couldn't get a confirmation from Airoh head office. It was a real shame they eventually acknowledged there was a problem but would not replace faulty helmets e.g. one guy was refused a replacement when the bracket rusted and broke at three years. Another guy, they asked him to post his helmet back for inspection (at his expense) but never picked it up at the post office so it was just returned. It's been a sad state of affairs for expensive Aviator helmets.
I haven't heard any mention of the Troy Lee Designs SE4 with MIPS and "eject" feature cheek pads. I'm using the carbon version of this helmet and thoroughly enjoy the up to date safety features and lightweight shell No probs with rust or any degradation whatsoever really for that matter. Even the visor hardware is holding up well... 2yrs so far !
Like most brands, Troy Lee is getting their helmets made in China so it's probably a good idea to keep an eye out for rust. Many guys never come across it, but it does occur here and there in all the Chinese made helmets... no reports on it from Japanese made helmets as yet (Arai, Shoei).
My brother has just bought one after much muttering about the cost lol. It was for safety but especially to get a quieter helmet. In the end it wasn't dramatically quieter than his cheap helmet but it's good to know it's high quality though. How are you finding yours?
I stopped using my XD4 off road. The chin guard is way too short, so I was hitting my jaw when falling off :/. Also they're heavy + don't breathe like other dirtbike helmets
Good question, James. Haven't heard of any but they'd probably come from FIM if so? In our club they were always just one of the usual road riding standards... mostly ECE 22.05 I think.
@@crosstrainingenduro if you don't give me a shout when you do, I'll never forgive you. I've had the pleasure of riding with Tyler and Travis from Every Single Sunday, so you're next on my list of TH-cam heroes to ride with. I think you would love the terrain and scenery we have to offer.
I think you mean TH-cam anti-heroes lol. I've never ridden in desert, most Aussies live on the coast so it's at least 12 hours driving to get to the really dry areas.
Often wondered about the very prominent chin bars on some helmets , I remember my Da saying about the solid peaks on some helmets years ago (road use) and lads getting their necks broken from them. Would a strong prominent chin bar not have the same effect?
None of the studies mention this Rob, only the need to have good padding to reduce the chances of shattered jaws and brokent teeth etc. Look through some of our earlier helmet vids, one shows where most impacts occur. It's very rarely head on... usually the front quarter of the helmet around the temple.
Great new standard! Your words and videos towards this subject in the past had to have had some impact getting some great common sense views in front of the powers to be. Now if they would use stainless steel instead of crappy ferrite encrusted metals for the strap mounts we would be in safer shape...
It seems crazy, Mark. I scoured all three major standards for something about corrosion resistance but nothing... unless it's in an appendix I couldn't find? I'm continuing my research and another failing is none of the road and adventure helmets address noise issues. Some helmets actually resonate and make wind noise worse, leading to faster hearing loss. But overall we are much safer with these standards than thirty years ago (DOT excepted).
@@crosstrainingenduro Wow! Noise! Fudge that’s such a biggie! For Street Stuff...... We as consumer’s “just” go along with what many manufacturers give us, and they say wear ear plugs if ya don’t like it. Which we know is bullshit, while this problem is amplified in the street use for dual sport/adventure and road bike helmets for sure.
I'll be doing a vid about noise soon, hopefully it just might reach the right ears and influence helmet standards at a later date. A long shot though...
Although Snell has also come in for criticism over the years too for applying racing car standards to motorbike helmets... there were some very interesting debates years back and some still feel aspects of their testing aren't the best.
Just replaced my rusty Fox V1 with Shoei VFX-WR with MIPS. I hope I never test these rotational forces though :) BTW thanks to you I didn't get new Airoh Aviator although it's so damn light and pretty...
I know, I was drooling over the Aviator when I bought my last helmet but was stopped by the ridiculous price and their apparent disregard for those rusting brackets and guys who had them fail. 🤔
Emergency releasable👍.. made a few custom camera helmets for skydiving, the plug molded to your head... camera wouldn't move, but the thought of an EMS person trying to remove them horrified me .. happy to see standards being created for that sport also now. Think hard now about the noggin, or thinking will not be an option later
what about mountainbike helmets? I see some helmets passed DOT standard like Kali Shiva 2.0 it would bee interesting to see what you think of this helmet, and helmets made for both MTB & MX riding.
DOT has barely changed since the 1970s, Johannes. Personally I wouldn't want to wear a helmet that only has a very old standard applied. I suspect that any MTB helmet will have too much focus on lightness and ventilation to be as safe as a proper motorbike helmet?
@@crosstrainingenduro that helmet has little ventilation, has cone dual foam design, a rider crashed with a prototype helmet at red bull rampage off a cliff with it and sustained several brutal impacts. so it looks promising. but since this crash, there is a Shiva 2.0 Nicholi Rogatkin's 30ft Crash - Red Bull Rampage 2015: th-cam.com/video/NUtCP7MW_lE/w-d-xo.html kaliprotectives.com/products/shiva-2-0-carbon-m1?variant=1080318623768 www.mtbr.com/threads/kali-shiva-2-0-full-face-helmet-launched.1171863/ What do you think of it? I am considering it.
What do I think of it? Just see my previous comment Johannes. That would be my view of any MTB helmet being used for motorbike riding if it only meets a pile MTB standards and the very old DOT standard. See my vid about the Fox Proframe which split open after just falling off my mountain bike against a dirt bank. I couldn't ever recommend using a helmet that is mainly focused on just MTB.
Is there a website or resource that rates full face helmets like Virginia Tech does with half-shell/open-face helmets? It's hard to find helmet reviews that are not paid or has some scientific backing to their protection.
Sharp are doing a pretty good job but not sure if anyone's testing open face helmets. sharp.dft.gov.uk/ I think all you can probably do is try to ensure it's good EU approval... or at the very least DOT which is arguably the worst of the major standards.
Whatever standard is best will be available as a sticker on chinese helmets. My LS2 subverter is ACU gold standard which is pretty cool....literally, its got 17 vents in it!
If you were to ask my wife, my brain stopped any development before 1974 so in theory I should be fine with the DOT standard - LOL. Seriously though, I am more than willing to pay the price for good protection but I agree the DOT and Snell are inadequate to say the least so how do I know what is better than the rest. Rusty brackets is a good example of a $hitty high priced helmet. The whole MIPs revolution wasn't driven by standards (I don't think so at least) so there does appear to be consumer pressures for a safer helmet. Thanks for doing the research on this stuff Barry. Your videos help us of less intelligence understand simple things.
It's a very messy area to research, Dave. The huge complicating factor is the last really good research was done back in 1999. And MIPS has come about because of rotational forces causing so many problems for US footballers. But I don't think we've had a really good study on how it relates to riders... and how to assess whether MIPS really works well or not. I still argue it's better to have as it probably does help, but we badly need solid research about helmets and brain injuries!
Come to India we last year have to oppose law prohibiting better helmets With weight restrictions of max 1200grams And average price of helmet here is less than $20
@@crosstrainingenduro the standard we had was based on ice 22.05 (ISI helmets) but as people rarely wear helmet here (2w are mostly used for commute ) the government thought lighter helmets can help in more people start wearing them also technically ice,dot,snell are not recognised unless they are isi certified as well
@@crosstrainingenduro that should become the standard. I recently hit a deer on my sports bike thank God for my helmet I woke up in the ambulance and the helmet saved my life and only had minor injuries fractured pelvic bone. When looking for a replacement helmet I found out how little information on how safe a helmet actually is other then the manufacturer propaganda
A few years back I spent a lot of time discussing all of this with Australia's leading helmet specialists. They said the good news is that even though our helmet standards are quite old, it ensures helmets are 80% effective at least. And then features like variable density liners and MIPS will push the figure higher, although it's hard to be sure how much without really good independent research in this area.
I've got one too which I used to use for faster rides... but it's largely unused now that we do so much slow snotty stuff. It's heavier than most helmets and less ventilated so sits on the shelf quite a bit now. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro - if someone comes out with a certified dirt bike helmet that is constructed like a downhill mountain bike helmet, they are going to sell a pile of them. There are so many people riding slow and technical terrain now, that need maximum ventilation. Add in us old farts with previous neck injuries that require light weight helmets and there is a huge market. Some of the guys in our area are already switching to downhill mountain bike helmets, but I’m not sold on them for motorcycles yet. Those downhill mountain bike riders are probably faster than me on my dirt bike though!
i got a WW 2 german army helmet with goggles i ride my sport bike and MX bikes with it. a good all round helmet . and very strong i just need a pair of fisting gloves
@@theravedaddy ahhh the kaiser helmet or the prussian helmet with the spike ideal for sticking in anything when you charge head 1st or land head 1st lool
I just bought a new one. My hjc was as old as some 17 18y old kids i ride w. Mine was 02, some of the guys were not born yet. Guilted me into new safety gear. My bud pete is 10y older than me, I asked him how old his was. 3 months older than my birthday. I turned 40 dec 2020. Pete still rides w it.
My discussions with Australia's leading specialists indicated there's nothing seriously wrong with hanging on to old helmets if the PVC liner is not exposed to sunlight or chemicals, and it's all in good working order. They said the main reason for updating at the suggested five year mark is you will probably benefit for newer design features like variable density liners and MIPS. But if I shelled out big money for an Arai or Shoei I would probably use it for 10 years and get my money's worth!
No. In fact one of the problems that even very cheap EPS does not degrade when left in the environment. Which is a big plus when it comes to helmets. buildblock.com/asked-answered-what-is-the-expected-lifetime-of-the-expanded-polystyrene-eps-foam/#:~:text=Expanded%20Polystyrene%20(EPS)%20is%20essentially,insulation%20value%20in%20the%20material.
They certainly seem to have done a good job, and I've got a 6D helmet myself. But the combination of a variable density liner and MIPS now increasingly offered by other manufacturers can quantifiably be similar. I did run 6D's own test results by two helmet specialists here in Australia and they said it does look good. th-cam.com/video/NmqfwDNIV3Q/w-d-xo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro Yeah the best alternatives almost come into the same class as the 6D. Only in certain situations, and still closer to average than they ever are to 6D.
Very nice highlighting of the issues with current standards and how the don't serve our needs. See also Ryan F9's video (no affiliation) that goes into detail on the standards and the industry. th-cam.com/video/0BUyp3HX8cY/w-d-xo.html
Glad to hear this. I originally found this channel in 2015 looking for a helmet. Bought the Soumy Jump. I bought a 6D AR2 after suffering a concussion wearing the Jump. Had a nice 60 mph get off with the 6D, no concussion.
Now I have the heavier Bell Moto 9 carbon flex.
It’s heavier because of meeting the Snell standard. I’m all for the Euro standard. But truth be told, although the Bell is 4oz heavier than the 6D, it feels almost as light as the Soumy thanks to its superb fit and multi layered impact lining.
After suffering over 8 concussions, riders like me need all the protection they can get.
How did the strap brackets go on your Suomy Jump. I think it was 2014 and 2015 they used those alloy brackets that just crumble to poweder and the strap fell off. Happened to mine after three years, just glad the strap fell off when putting the helmet on, not an actual crash!
@@crosstrainingenduro
As far as I can tell. They’re firmly attached. I went to inspect them after reading your question, but if Soumy does one thing well, it’s making it very difficult to inspect them.
They are buried behind padding that traps moisture.
It’s almost as if they were deliberately trying to hide the brackets.
It's even worse with Leatt... and they were another problem brand for rust.
@@crosstrainingenduro
A friend said this: “
The one I got in 2013 is still in good shape. No problems with the hardware at all”
I really think the permanent padding over the buckles must be contributing to the rust.
Not aware of the problem at the time, I’ve sprayed out the inside with a hose several times.
I retired the helmet after the concussion but at least it was good for one crash.
Its great to see them improving, im still hoping FIM makes it to off-roading standards, i think that would be the great. Im really hoping these manufacturers are getting stricter and doing better, i have a DOT helmet but I’ll definitely be looking for ECE if possible next time. Keep up the good work, this channel is brilliant for this stuff
I know, its blasphemy to recommend other channels but if you care about safety, especially in USA for the DOT standard, you’ll look at them and maybe learn something to keep your head safer, so heres two videos
-Video to explain FIM and Fortnine, “Groundbreaking motorcycle helmets - Best of 2020”
and at 6:42 he talks about FIM hinting to off road and what they are. Id also recommend being weary around DOT standards too
-Fortnine “Uncovered - Dangerous Secrets of the DOT Helmet Standard”
Again, say what you will but if safety is key, their worth a watch
I regularly refer to Fortnine vids, he does some great stuff! I know he's the frontman for a huge retail group but overall his reviews seem to be very honest and objective... rare qualities nowadays.
Barry, glad to see you are collaborated with eveRide! He has a great channel! Here in the US, we really appreciate all of the great Aussie content on TH-cam!.
Shit, I might have to search for a new helmet due to my need for the best protective gear.
Cheers!
Really hoping to ride with Tyler one day, it might even happen in Canada this year if the virus backs off enough!
Thanks mate, love that you're always getting this level of detail in the minds of us fellow riders. Will include this in our helmet section when we launch our site.
Our pleasure! We'll also be reporting on noise induced hearing loss on our adventure channel soon... and how it relates to helmets.
I would like to see the Emergency release a regular standard on helmets. Imagine getting an injury and its increased because it was difficult to get your helmet off.
And I can't imagine it adding more than a few dollars to the cost of the helmet. Currently I'm researching hearing loss from riding and it's surprising there's nothing in the standards about this. Some helmets actually amplify the wind noise at 500hz! We have a long way to go....
@@crosstrainingenduro For an number of reasons I always wear plugs while riding.
@@crosstrainingenduro earplugs are a must. sure would be nice if they weren't!
I’m looking for a helmet right now. Thanks for posting this, it was perfect timing.
Great to hear, Peter!
Thanks for the information and it was nice to see the connection with eveRide ADV, he has a great channel too.
Love Tyler's stuff, we are brothers from another mother. 😁
Thank you so much for this update, I greatly appreciate it. I was wondering if I could get your view on the Arai MX-V which is ECE 22.05 compliant. I have yet to notice any mentioning of that brand in your past reviews. Again many thanks and wishing you all a great new year.
I can't afford those helmets, Ariel. 😢 But essentially you can't go wrong with the Japanese brands. They are still made in Japan, whereas most other helmets are made in China, or at the very least the all important EPS foam liner is. One indication? We've had reports of rusted brackets from riders on many brands, but never an Arai or Shoei.
@@crosstrainingenduro True, Arai cost a small fortune. I was aiming to get one, but the wife said that the size of my brain does not warrant such an expensive purchase :-(
I think the biggest safety feature is to get a helmet with a variable density liner, even many of the cheap helmets are using these now. And if it comes with something like MIPS that reduces rotational forces that's not a bad secondary feature to have. And then just check those strap brackets for rust once or twice a year.
I thought long and about getting an Arai MK-V to replace my existing lid (Nolan) as I’ve used them for years on the road/track, including putting the R75 shell shape to good use by doing some breakdancing on it. The thing that put me off was Arai’s slow response to the previous impact tests (rightly or wrongly... they maybe felt they weren’t fit for purpose so didn’t fully adopt... may have also been a cultural issue in terms of accepting there was an issue and it was time to change) and that they seem to have been slow to come onboard with MIPS systems (only leading manufacturer without one). I have tested the R75 shell shape on tarmac, definitely works, will definitely but another Arai road helmet. However the conclusion I drew myself was that off-road your are less likely to have a glancing blow and more likely your helmet will dig in due to features of the terrain and the helmet geometry vs a road bike helmet (unless your strike rocks I guess...) and therefore rotational impact was of far greater importance off-road. In the end I went with the 6D ATR-2, its a very nice lid and on a par with the other premium brands like Arai, Shoei, etc (although IMHO Arai make the best overall quality helmets - based on years of Arai ownership, Quantum, Chaser, RX-7 - consistent across the ranges also). Another great video @crosstrainingenduro kudos for trawling the standards... I did the same when researching my new helmet. Decided it was worth the outlay as I get paid from the neck up and ride in the dunes of the UAE at quite often very high speeds... if you have an off, its going to be dull one.
I have an Airoh Terminator. Have crashed badly just once during my "second" career. Caught the peg on a chicane hay bale at a cross country race looking at the race clock for a second too much. Took a dive over the bars and had a Honda up my back. Had some marks under my chin from the strap, but I was ok and finished the race after beating the gear lever back to shape at the pits (so I could change gears). So far I trust my Airoh. Brackets show no sign of rust after about two years. After a few head stands at the MX track I got a new Terminator helmet. So far I'm happy and racing. I don't wear any neck braces and I'm at my late 30's. The Terminator is a nice option between light weight and price. At Long races at high speed my neck just can't take the beating of a 1500g helmet.
Helmet research showed that beyond 1500g is when the weight can begin to contribute to injuries. But it's definitely tiring, in our group most of us are using helmets around 1000 to 1250g. And lots of ventilation.
Very informative and great footage too. Tyler hooked you up good.
He sure did... really looking forward to riding with him one day.
I run bell helmets with the mips system. I also really like the emergency cheek pad removal
Both are good features, Jon! It's a shame they are all made in China nowadays though. I think a few pieces on the top line models might be made in the USA... and a bit of assembly?
@@crosstrainingenduro you said it.
My Bell Moto 9 Flex seems to check all your boxes. There are some lids out there that exceed standards. I would caution judging a helmet based on the certification. Focus on features and materials.
Most helmets exceed the standards, we've addressed some of the thing to look for in other vids. Unfortunately most Bell helmets are made in China now so only time will tell how this impacts on the quality. We've had a few reports of premature rust already.
I'm working with the theory that if I clean the sweat from my Airoh helmet after each ride it wont rust the brackets. 12 months in and all good so far.
I think they did move to stainless steel eventually, Trevor. Or so the USA distributor claimed. I couldn't get a confirmation from Airoh head office. It was a real shame they eventually acknowledged there was a problem but would not replace faulty helmets e.g. one guy was refused a replacement when the bracket rusted and broke at three years. Another guy, they asked him to post his helmet back for inspection (at his expense) but never picked it up at the post office so it was just returned. It's been a sad state of affairs for expensive Aviator helmets.
I haven't heard any mention of the Troy Lee Designs SE4 with MIPS and "eject" feature cheek pads. I'm using the carbon version of this helmet and thoroughly enjoy the up to date safety features and lightweight shell
No probs with rust or any degradation whatsoever really for that matter. Even the visor hardware is holding up well...
2yrs so far !
Like most brands, Troy Lee is getting their helmets made in China so it's probably a good idea to keep an eye out for rust. Many guys never come across it, but it does occur here and there in all the Chinese made helmets... no reports on it from Japanese made helmets as yet (Arai, Shoei).
@@crosstrainingenduro I would much rather have Japanese steel in my helmet but I've been having good luck so far
I ride with the ARAI Tour X-4. It was in the costly end, but what is the price of an accident?
My brother has just bought one after much muttering about the cost lol. It was for safety but especially to get a quieter helmet. In the end it wasn't dramatically quieter than his cheap helmet but it's good to know it's high quality though. How are you finding yours?
I'm riding in tour X4 as well 👍
I stopped using my XD4 off road. The chin guard is way too short, so I was hitting my jaw when falling off :/. Also they're heavy + don't breathe like other dirtbike helmets
I figure that will always be the downside of quiet helmets... they are quieter because of heavier construction and less ventilation. 😢
Barry, to put things in perspective are there specs for pro trials competition lids and what are they ?
Good question, James. Haven't heard of any but they'd probably come from FIM if so? In our club they were always just one of the usual road riding standards... mostly ECE 22.05 I think.
Well, would you look at this. My local trails on Cross Training Enduro, who would have thought that would ever happen.
Now I just have to get over there one day and ride them. That really is spectacular countryside. 😍
@@crosstrainingenduro if you don't give me a shout when you do, I'll never forgive you. I've had the pleasure of riding with Tyler and Travis from Every Single Sunday, so you're next on my list of TH-cam heroes to ride with. I think you would love the terrain and scenery we have to offer.
I think you mean TH-cam anti-heroes lol. I've never ridden in desert, most Aussies live on the coast so it's at least 12 hours driving to get to the really dry areas.
Often wondered about the very prominent chin bars on some helmets , I remember my Da saying about the solid peaks on some helmets years ago (road use) and lads getting their necks broken from them. Would a strong prominent chin bar not have the same effect?
None of the studies mention this Rob, only the need to have good padding to reduce the chances of shattered jaws and brokent teeth etc. Look through some of our earlier helmet vids, one shows where most impacts occur. It's very rarely head on... usually the front quarter of the helmet around the temple.
Great new standard! Your words and videos towards this subject in the past had to have had some impact getting some great common sense views in front of the powers to be. Now if they would use stainless steel instead of crappy ferrite encrusted metals for the strap mounts we would be in safer shape...
It seems crazy, Mark. I scoured all three major standards for something about corrosion resistance but nothing... unless it's in an appendix I couldn't find? I'm continuing my research and another failing is none of the road and adventure helmets address noise issues. Some helmets actually resonate and make wind noise worse, leading to faster hearing loss. But overall we are much safer with these standards than thirty years ago (DOT excepted).
@@crosstrainingenduro
Wow! Noise! Fudge that’s such a biggie!
For Street Stuff......
We as consumer’s “just” go along with what many manufacturers give us, and they say wear ear plugs if ya don’t like it. Which we know is bullshit, while this problem is amplified in the street use for dual sport/adventure and road bike helmets for sure.
I'll be doing a vid about noise soon, hopefully it just might reach the right ears and influence helmet standards at a later date. A long shot though...
Thats why Snell standards excel DOT as a private tester Internationaly recognised as the bench mark standard
Although Snell has also come in for criticism over the years too for applying racing car standards to motorbike helmets... there were some very interesting debates years back and some still feel aspects of their testing aren't the best.
Just replaced my rusty Fox V1 with Shoei VFX-WR with MIPS. I hope I never test these rotational forces though :) BTW thanks to you I didn't get new Airoh Aviator although it's so damn light and pretty...
I know, I was drooling over the Aviator when I bought my last helmet but was stopped by the ridiculous price and their apparent disregard for those rusting brackets and guys who had them fail. 🤔
Thanks.
Pleasure.
Have you done any testing or received any input on LS2 helmets?
All helmets are made in their China factory, Chase. I don't have any comments from owners as yet.
@@crosstrainingenduro I've only worn mine a few times so I can't really provide any useful feedback at this point.
Thanks for this info and for bringing things like this to light. You’re doing the Dirt Bike God’s work!
Bless you my son! 😁
Emergency releasable👍.. made a few custom camera helmets for skydiving, the plug molded to your head... camera wouldn't move, but the thought of an EMS person trying to remove them horrified me .. happy to see standards being created for that sport also now. Think hard now about the noggin, or thinking will not be an option later
what about mountainbike helmets? I see some helmets passed DOT standard like Kali Shiva 2.0 it would bee interesting to see what you think of this helmet, and helmets made for both MTB & MX riding.
DOT has barely changed since the 1970s, Johannes. Personally I wouldn't want to wear a helmet that only has a very old standard applied. I suspect that any MTB helmet will have too much focus on lightness and ventilation to be as safe as a proper motorbike helmet?
@@crosstrainingenduro
that helmet has little ventilation, has cone dual foam design, a rider crashed with a prototype helmet at red bull rampage off a cliff with it and sustained several brutal impacts. so it looks promising. but since this crash, there is a Shiva 2.0
Nicholi Rogatkin's 30ft Crash - Red Bull Rampage 2015: th-cam.com/video/NUtCP7MW_lE/w-d-xo.html
kaliprotectives.com/products/shiva-2-0-carbon-m1?variant=1080318623768
www.mtbr.com/threads/kali-shiva-2-0-full-face-helmet-launched.1171863/
What do you think of it? I am considering it.
@@crosstrainingenduro I knew this years ago, and wo deres how helmets were actually tested from all brands.
@@crosstrainingenduro I don't remember if they tested it further than Dot requires. I will look into this helmet further, and others. But not today.
What do I think of it? Just see my previous comment Johannes. That would be my view of any MTB helmet being used for motorbike riding if it only meets a pile MTB standards and the very old DOT standard. See my vid about the Fox Proframe which split open after just falling off my mountain bike against a dirt bank. I couldn't ever recommend using a helmet that is mainly focused on just MTB.
Is there a website or resource that rates full face helmets like Virginia Tech does with half-shell/open-face helmets? It's hard to find helmet reviews that are not paid or has some scientific backing to their protection.
Sharp are doing a pretty good job but not sure if anyone's testing open face helmets. sharp.dft.gov.uk/ I think all you can probably do is try to ensure it's good EU approval... or at the very least DOT which is arguably the worst of the major standards.
I guess I'll increase the amount I charge for the off season storage space between my ears now that the safety standard is higher.
🤣
Do you have a friend named Jeff who rides a beta RR 300
Sounds like one of the guys in our group
@@crosstrainingenduro I know a Jeff that rides beta RR 300
Whatever standard is best will be available as a sticker on chinese helmets. My LS2 subverter is ACU gold standard which is pretty cool....literally, its got 17 vents in it!
If you were to ask my wife, my brain stopped any development before 1974 so in theory I should be fine with the DOT standard - LOL. Seriously though, I am more than willing to pay the price for good protection but I agree the DOT and Snell are inadequate to say the least so how do I know what is better than the rest. Rusty brackets is a good example of a $hitty high priced helmet. The whole MIPs revolution wasn't driven by standards (I don't think so at least) so there does appear to be consumer pressures for a safer helmet.
Thanks for doing the research on this stuff Barry. Your videos help us of less intelligence understand simple things.
It's a very messy area to research, Dave. The huge complicating factor is the last really good research was done back in 1999. And MIPS has come about because of rotational forces causing so many problems for US footballers. But I don't think we've had a really good study on how it relates to riders... and how to assess whether MIPS really works well or not. I still argue it's better to have as it probably does help, but we badly need solid research about helmets and brain injuries!
Hey Beer-ie,
What’s the best bike for me?
I have a whole TH-cam playlist on it. 😁
Why would you give this a thumbs down shame on you one person
Come to India we last year have to oppose law prohibiting better helmets
With weight restrictions of max 1200grams
And average price of helmet here is less than $20
Why a maximum of 1200g, Ambar? Research shows helmet weight only becomes a problem at 1.5kg and heavier. 🤔 Is there a specific Indian standard?
@@crosstrainingenduro the standard we had was based on ice 22.05 (ISI helmets)
but as people rarely wear helmet here
(2w are mostly used for commute )
the government thought lighter helmets can help in more people start wearing them
also technically ice,dot,snell are not recognised
unless they are isi certified as well
Man you're pals with Kyle?
Kyle who?
Kyle from the dirt bike channel. However after watching again, you said Tyler.
Helmets should have a rating system so the consumers knows what better
There's a mob in the UK called SHARP who have done it with some helmets, although they didn't have a lot of info about how they make the assessment.
@@crosstrainingenduro that should become the standard. I recently hit a deer on my sports bike thank God for my helmet I woke up in the ambulance and the helmet saved my life and only had minor injuries fractured pelvic bone. When looking for a replacement helmet I found out how little information on how safe a helmet actually is other then the manufacturer propaganda
A few years back I spent a lot of time discussing all of this with Australia's leading helmet specialists. They said the good news is that even though our helmet standards are quite old, it ensures helmets are 80% effective at least. And then features like variable density liners and MIPS will push the figure higher, although it's hard to be sure how much without really good independent research in this area.
Buy 6D Helmets.....Best technology in the helmet 🪖industry. I’ve had 2 of them over the years without any issues. My head is work the cake they cost.
“My head is work the cake they cost” - You sure those helmets are the best in the industry without any issues?!?! 🤔
@@gpaull2 lmao
I've got one too which I used to use for faster rides... but it's largely unused now that we do so much slow snotty stuff. It's heavier than most helmets and less ventilated so sits on the shelf quite a bit now. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro - if someone comes out with a certified dirt bike helmet that is constructed like a downhill mountain bike helmet, they are going to sell a pile of them. There are so many people riding slow and technical terrain now, that need maximum ventilation. Add in us old farts with previous neck injuries that require light weight helmets and there is a huge market. Some of the guys in our area are already switching to downhill mountain bike helmets, but I’m not sold on them for motorcycles yet. Those downhill mountain bike riders are probably faster than me on my dirt bike though!
I wondered about thosedown hill buckets. My brother uses one for snow boarding. It's a fox. It fit realy nice.
i got a WW 2 german army helmet with goggles i ride my sport bike and MX bikes with it. a good all round helmet . and very strong i just need a pair of fisting gloves
Trade it in for the ww1 Kaiser helmet with the chrome easy wipe spike on it.....sit back and enjoy...
@@theravedaddy ahhh the kaiser helmet or the prussian helmet with the spike ideal for sticking in anything when you charge head 1st or land head 1st lool
@@huskypoop4917 and good for relaxing anal retentives....
I love the spike idea. Payback for those trees when they jump out into the middle of the track. 😒
@@crosstrainingenduro aye the reit lol
Still usiing my 14 year old Kenny budget helmet :P had some heavy crashes and stil going ''strong'....
I just bought a new one. My hjc was as old as some 17 18y old kids i ride w. Mine was 02, some of the guys were not born yet. Guilted me into new safety gear. My bud pete is 10y older than me, I asked him how old his was. 3 months older than my birthday. I turned 40 dec 2020. Pete still rides w it.
My discussions with Australia's leading specialists indicated there's nothing seriously wrong with hanging on to old helmets if the PVC liner is not exposed to sunlight or chemicals, and it's all in good working order. They said the main reason for updating at the suggested five year mark is you will probably benefit for newer design features like variable density liners and MIPS. But if I shelled out big money for an Arai or Shoei I would probably use it for 10 years and get my money's worth!
@@crosstrainingenduro Is there not a thing about EPS foam drying up with time and loosing its impact absorption capabilities ?
No. In fact one of the problems that even very cheap EPS does not degrade when left in the environment. Which is a big plus when it comes to helmets. buildblock.com/asked-answered-what-is-the-expected-lifetime-of-the-expanded-polystyrene-eps-foam/#:~:text=Expanded%20Polystyrene%20(EPS)%20is%20essentially,insulation%20value%20in%20the%20material.
Good news, but I think what we really need is
to have someone re-design the human head,
particularly for us Dirt Bike Riders.
There's a pretty wide variability of places to ride in the U.S, although most of it is near or in the Rockies.
I've ridden and filmed in the Canadian part of the Rockies, Matt. That was some awesome riding...
@@SirPoopDollar replying to the wrong comment? Or just a troll?
If you're being serious Preston, I'd suggest staying off this channel and carry on somewhere else.
Just buy a 6D helmet. Nothing else comes even close in terms of anything quantifiable. Its really not even close.
They certainly seem to have done a good job, and I've got a 6D helmet myself. But the combination of a variable density liner and MIPS now increasingly offered by other manufacturers can quantifiably be similar. I did run 6D's own test results by two helmet specialists here in Australia and they said it does look good.
th-cam.com/video/NmqfwDNIV3Q/w-d-xo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro Yeah the best alternatives almost come into the same class as the 6D. Only in certain situations, and still closer to average than they ever are to 6D.
First comment :D
Well done, sir!
Interesting....bOoOp..
Very nice highlighting of the issues with current standards and how the don't serve our needs. See also Ryan F9's video (no affiliation) that goes into detail on the standards and the industry. th-cam.com/video/0BUyp3HX8cY/w-d-xo.html
It's not good is it? I covered the helmet standards years ago but it's probably time to update that vid and keep reminding everyone to ignore DOT!
Luckily I have rocks in my head then,