At 1:52:44 I'm pretty sure Gilgamesh is talking about Saber more so than Iskandar in this case as he is even holding a Saber chess piece. Notably, when he is telling Kirei to find another servant, he is holding an archer chess piece.
In fate once a hassan dies the best assassin in the organization becomes the "new hassan" like a successor. the hassan in fate zero is known as "hassan of a hundred faces" they all share a name for their noble phantasm even if they do different things
yup the hassan in zero isn't the first hassan 'old man of the mountain'. If you're curious about the first hassan, he appears in the fate/Strange Fake novel, the fate/grand order camelot movies and in the fate/grand order absolute demonic front : babylonia anime.
46:24 it's because the writer himself wrote saber's personality similar to a naive girl who's prideful of her knighthood and kingship, wrote her in a way she will slowly and slowly feel guilty about her rule and grief over it. Saber (from F/SN) is actually more strongminded than her fate/zero version as she has good control on her emotions than this.
Your commentary just straight up gives me so much energy. Also you talk like you're on 1.25x speed which i really like too, i'm so addicted to your videos rn. im fkn dead at "domain expansion sahara desert"
1:46:10 Sha Naqba Imuru - his clairvoyance, it was active in this scene while their discussion was going on. Gilgamesh pretty much predicted what kirei's future actions can be 😋 beautiful ending of this episode.
Saber only "loses" here because she low-key already agrees with Iskandar: She already thought that she shouldn't be a king and that the destruction of Britain is her fault. Her problem is extreme intolerance for failure, even if it's inevitable, and the low self-esteem that came from that. Her rule itself was just and she led her people to victory every single time.
King for the people is supposed to be in fate 2006 but..... Just Read the VN? I guess. About Ep11 I believe if you're just an ordinary citizen (below soldier) you definitely don't want Alexander ruling you. But if you're a ruler then you definitely don't want to be Saber.
Right, the ideals they embody, a common peasant would likely most value a ruler like Saber, or at least I see a connection to English Tradition and English Common Law in her ideals. But Alexander is right in that he is the type of person other people aspire to be like because of his extremes, while Saber is not.
Just a note about Hassan-i-Sabbah, the one you're reading about is not the same as the one in Fate/Zero. In Fate Hassan-i-Sabbah is used to refer to all of the leaders of the Hashshashin/Order of Assassins, not just the founder who you were reading about. Unfortunately though as far as I'm aware we have no actual historical information about the other Hassan's beyond the First and I'm pretty they're all purely fictional (though factual in the world of Fate). The simple explanation of homunculi are that they are alchemically created artificial nature spirits that take the form of humans, they also possess a powerful magic circuit as a natural part of their existence. So an extremely simplified explanation of them is if a magi is a human that possesses magic circuits, homunculi are magic circuits that possess a human form. They are also already created fully mature and with the knowledge they need but without any experience, hence why Iri is so innocent and naive, as despite technically being a full grown adult she lacks any of the experience a normal adult would have. Though there are some exceptions, for example Illya despite being a homunculus was created through natural means, so unlike normal homunculi she actually does start off as a baby and grows older like a human until reaching her "mature" form. Well, technically speaking Illya isn't really an exception, homunculi are not naturally infertile (though the nature of their creation does often result in physical defects like infertility) so they can have kids, they are just created as tools to serve a purpose and not as their own person, so it's rare for a homunculus to ever be in a position to conceive a child like Iri was with Kiritsugu. 1:30:00 It was mentioned in Episode 1 that Saber's Riding skill is of a high enough rank that she can drive basically any vehicle by instinct, even ones she's completely unfamiliar with. She even says that she could fly the plane they arrived on if she wanted. 1:45:00 It's not explicitly stated but yeah, when parts of the Command Spell are faded like that it's because one of them has been used.
Gilgamesh and Iskander did not need to double team Saber like that on her first night. I have also realised how perfectly some servants represent different sins. Gilgamesh - pride Iskander - greed Lancer - lust Caster- gluttony Saber - envy
The focus on the house is there for the same reason Rin got a whole episode. I'll just leave it at that. With Kariya, i would say attonement actually is a big part of it. Sure, partly he's driven by simple compassion for Sakura just as partly he's driven by hatred for Tokiomi, but a big part of his motivation is guilt for his own choice and a want set things right. He was born as the would be succesor to the Matou family but left, and that's the reason why Sakura was adopted in the first place. Also with Gilgamesh's words about the two kinds of pride, he's really talking more about Saber than Rider. He left the talk with respect for Rider, but with a deeper interest in Saber. She is the fool with dreams bigger than herself. Rider he likely wouldn't consider a fool at all.
My take on Iskandar's way of rule and why it regulates itself at a certain scale: A murdering tyrant can conquer a country before he antagonises the world, an inspiring tyrant can conquer the world and everyone will help him do so From the moment Fate was on the poll I was looking forward to this talk because I knew we would get a nice cube of yapping^^
To simplify with a single word, this episode shows where the three kings find their source of power: Saber, her *ideals.* She is king because (beyond the sword in the stone) she safeguards the beliefs and values of her people. Alexander, his *action.* He is king because his actions inspire and brings others to him. Gilgamesh, in *objective truth.* He is king, the first king, because the Gods made him king. In extremes you can see how all three are correct and necessary for kingship, and also how taken too far they loose any grounding. A King must Act, must embody the Ideals of their people, and have an unquestioning Legitimacy. And there are times where these WILL conflict with each other where discernment is needed to chose the best course.
ye the problem with kings/dictators/single leaders is simply one person holding too much power. a good king could accomplish way more than a good democracy but you run the risk of having a bad one ruining way more too. and so on average a democracy is better cause it can mess up less.
11 episode discussion is just amazing. It would have tremendous and horrible repercussions in real world, but watching and thinking of simpler times of old you just can't help getting swept up in his bright shining example of someone who is just THE GUY.
A loser who ruined his whole country and was betrayed even before his failure of a campaign? It’s funny how his attemp at flexing with army is pathetic when you remember that canonically a big portion of his army explicitly refuses to be summoned)
Badly ruled democracy vs. Monarchy with a strong leader. That's just Legend of Galactic Heroes. And yes, Monarchy with Strong leader in most cases would be stronger and more prosperous than badly ruled democracy. The problem is that it's not sustainable and heavily dependant on that strong leader. Which actually leads to Iskandar's argument about ruling through saving and protecting rather than leading and actually building more or less sustainable system that is gonna work even without that strong charismatic leader. It's just a boss who can't properly delegate and micromanaging everything. This whole debate was designed the way that you can't help but side with Iskandar with this argument despite some really questionable things he was saying because he's really charismatic and Saber's arguments ere framed as some idealistic naive ramblings of a little girl. And he did have a point about martyr. But still, in most other cases this talk would've been framed as Saber being on the right side of an argument. You know the trope, like the best ruler is the one who doesn't want to lead because they're not hungry for the power or whatever. Which I always considered really naive and kinda bs. But it sounds nice for sure. It's not quite the same with Saber but still in the same ballpark. P.S. Saber is Araragi.
I want to provide some Fate Lore, which the series does not address and it will not be a spoiler. Saber or in this case Artoria had her people die against themselves, they did not fight another country or ruler, the rebellion happened when she was away, and once she returned she saw all her knights fighting, the knights were divided into 2 groups, the ones that supported Artoria and the ones that rebelled against her, the knights for her were like her brothers and sisters, fighting them was very hard for her, and that is why she is so mortified with Britain demise, she does have great grief, she knows something slip out and wanted to fix it so badly, but hearing Iskandar that that could have happened because of her way of thinking a big shock, that she was the reason why that happened, it was kinda making sense on her mind but at the same time denying it. Saber had a Saint way of life, she did not show any signs of envy, resentment, greed, etc. All her people looked at her as a Saint, Iskandar was admired by his people, but on the other side, Saber was idolized, which was totally different, she was seen as someone so perfect and very far away from every human, and she tried to keep that image for her people to know how to live, but it is very difficult to identify yourself with someone like that, one can try to follow but almost impossible to accomplish, is hard to picture what you could do on her place when she is not around, that is why Iskandar calls her a little girl with petty ideals. Also, as per Nasuverse (Fate lore), all modern weapons and artifacts comes from Gilgamesh's treasure, he was the first hero, and during his rule he collected all the treasures of mankind, it is rumored that even the Grail, all the Noble Phantasm that exists derives from his vault (All except the one created by mystical entities and alien weapons, and yes, there exist alien servants) when he died, all the treasures were distributed on the earth, and each of them gains their respectful name and Noble Phatams attributes know, so when he says that he owns something, well, he kind have some true on that.
@@lordlubu3029 tell me you didn’t even watch 2006 Fate , much less read VN without telling me. It’s pathetic how you appear in multiple people’s comments on this specific episode to push Uro delusions(
The banquet scene is some of the biggest character butchery in the whole series simply because this specific writer dosnt like saber. The whole scene treats saber like a little king instead of a king who she was all her life. Normal saber would not falter just becaue two tyrants questiond her ideals. the scene is biggest stain on this series. other stain is people telling people to start with zero for no reason
I like her more in zero actually, and I dont actually think that the scene tries to make her out like some sort of little king. Remember, its up to the viewer how to interpret a scene, and i doubt that most people would disagree with her vision. Also Gilgamesh clearly did not questioned her ideals, at least not to the same extend as Iskandar did.
@@ludwig-alice It litterly potrays her as a little girl that dosnt know what she is doing instead of a ruthless king that would burn down a town if it meant victory who she was. its not up interpreation its litterly what in the scene, her breaking down with horrified look on her face as litteral tyrant laughs at her ideals, and up until that point she has done nothing impressive so she just comes off as a failure where right after that you have Rider summon his noble phatasm to show off his power. Just to nail in the point. Heck her retoring even a little bit was not even adapted in the anime. Gilgamesh dosnt care he just wants to enjoy life and rape saber if he can, her mocking her is like his core character.
@@lop90ful1 It's not character butchery, these were always her flaws even in FSN. Saber fanboys just get salty that instead of sucking her off for 50 hours Zero only focuses on her flaws (along with everyone else's flaws) because that's the point of the show. To show the fatal flaw in everyone's character. Nothing Saber does in Zero is OOC, and Riders opinion of her is just that, his opinion. It makes sense that he would think that of her because he was the complete opposite type of ruler from her, he was selfish and reckless while Saber is self-sacrificing and honest to a fault. They would never get along. Also Zero doesn't portray Saber as a little girl, Rider thinks of her that way, but that isn't how Zero portrays her. Zero portrays her as a flawed king who had some good traits but was out of touch with the people she ruled. Btw, Zero doesn't portray anyone as just good or bad, they are all flawed. Rider is portrayed as charismatic and a good leader but way too arrogant and short sided. If anything Kiritsugu is portrayed the most negatively of anyone since his entire ideology is chewed up right in front of him and all his ambition s amount to nothing. You fundamentally do not understand Saber's character. She was not some ruthless badass who did anything to win, idk why people like you think that and completely miss the entire point of her character. Anime fans are so bad at media literacy, that take is on par with the people who watch AoT and think Eren is the good guy. Saber was ALWAYS a tragic hero, she didn't burn done villages because she wanted to and was ruthless. She was forced into those positions due to her ideology and code. Her entire story revolves around how her code of honor and chivalry is fundamentally incompatible with the nature of real war and battle and makes her an inept king, and this is FSN we are talking about not even Zero. FFS she was literally overthrown by her own son and her own knights, Rider was exactly 100% right lol. Also, yea, Saber was a failure....that's kinda the entire premise of her character she failed her kingdom. Rider was also a failure, she points that out. Most of the servants were failures in their life, aside from Gil funny enough.
True. It's probably intended to convey a lack of confidence in her own life compared to the others. Ultimately hinting at her wish. I think if any of her knights were talking about her way of rule, they'd actually do a much better job supporting her. Bedi, Agravain, Gawain, etc.
Awful representation? You know how contextualizations work, right? There is nothing wrong with how she's portrayed in this conversation. One person simply took the lead in the conversation. It's as simple as that. It is the audience's choice who's side to take.
@@KarIgo87 yeah , because Night Saber would either roast that clown or kill him and waver on the spot for that shit show. Even F/SF mocks this scene and portrays everyone but Artoria as "wrong" , even mocking rider for his shouting like little kid. Edit:Pathetic clown blocked me so I couldn’t reply him from my account😢 , sorry for scaring you.
So the biggest Astoria character butchery episode is here , for the record official pols treat Normal Artoria and Zaber as completely different characters. Normally Saber wouldn’t even acknowledge riders words or point, in VN she isn’t bragging like Gil but is of really high opinion of herself - and for a good reasons, something Zaber lacks because of writer.
Tell me you dont understand zero without telling me you dont understand zero 😂 this is why i consider fate to have one of the top 3 dumbest fandoms its genuinely embarassing how theyve built themselves this idiotic echo chamber that almost makes the aot haters seem more media literate
@@AmbivalentRay I mean... FSN Artoria had the exact same wish and ideals, it's not like Zero Artoria is a completely different person. Anyone who treats that scene as character butchery just don't understand Artoria, the only difference between FSN and Zero Artoria is that in Zero there is actually someone (Rider) who could properly confront her on her ideals.
@@draglonconx7771 A dumb echo chamber is the last thing I'd call Fate fandom... more like an angry debate parlor. AoT fans were in diapers at the time when essays about the canon status of Zero were being furiously typed up, book ended the most inventive and delightful ad hominems.
At 1:52:44 I'm pretty sure Gilgamesh is talking about Saber more so than Iskandar in this case as he is even holding a Saber chess piece. Notably, when he is telling Kirei to find another servant, he is holding an archer chess piece.
In fate once a hassan dies the best assassin in the organization becomes the "new hassan" like a successor. the hassan in fate zero is known as "hassan of a hundred faces" they all share a name for their noble phantasm even if they do different things
yup the hassan in zero isn't the first hassan 'old man of the mountain'.
If you're curious about the first hassan, he appears in the fate/Strange Fake novel, the fate/grand order camelot movies and in the fate/grand order absolute demonic front : babylonia anime.
46:24 it's because the writer himself wrote saber's personality similar to a naive girl who's prideful of her knighthood and kingship, wrote her in a way she will slowly and slowly feel guilty about her rule and grief over it. Saber (from F/SN) is actually more strongminded than her fate/zero version as she has good control on her emotions than this.
Your commentary just straight up gives me so much energy. Also you talk like you're on 1.25x speed which i really like too, i'm so addicted to your videos rn.
im fkn dead at "domain expansion sahara desert"
a fellow yap enthusiast
1:46:10 Sha Naqba Imuru - his clairvoyance, it was active in this scene while their discussion was going on. Gilgamesh pretty much predicted what kirei's future actions can be 😋 beautiful ending of this episode.
Bro, if only Saber knew how her Knights see her😢. All of the kings here are tyrants, Saber is the most righteous
Gilgamesh was only a tyrant until Enkidu died.
Saber only "loses" here because she low-key already agrees with Iskandar: She already thought that she shouldn't be a king and that the destruction of Britain is her fault. Her problem is extreme intolerance for failure, even if it's inevitable, and the low self-esteem that came from that. Her rule itself was just and she led her people to victory every single time.
Ahh yes the Fate zero saber written by a writer that hates her
@@lop90ful1 Written by a writer that knows how to write
42:42 Yeah, JJK really did just rip off Fate's reality marbles with their domain expansion, but who cared. It's cool.
plutarch was a greek philosopher and writer. he lived during roman height time so way after alexanders time
King for the people is supposed to be in fate 2006 but.....
Just Read the VN? I guess.
About Ep11 I believe if you're just an ordinary citizen (below soldier) you definitely don't want Alexander ruling you. But if you're a ruler then you definitely don't want to be Saber.
Right, the ideals they embody, a common peasant would likely most value a ruler like Saber, or at least I see a connection to English Tradition and English Common Law in her ideals. But Alexander is right in that he is the type of person other people aspire to be like because of his extremes, while Saber is not.
ANOTHER DAY ANOTHER PEAK PINK DISCUSSION
When bro knows Gilgamesh really had the grail in his treasury
Just a note about Hassan-i-Sabbah, the one you're reading about is not the same as the one in Fate/Zero. In Fate Hassan-i-Sabbah is used to refer to all of the leaders of the Hashshashin/Order of Assassins, not just the founder who you were reading about. Unfortunately though as far as I'm aware we have no actual historical information about the other Hassan's beyond the First and I'm pretty they're all purely fictional (though factual in the world of Fate).
The simple explanation of homunculi are that they are alchemically created artificial nature spirits that take the form of humans, they also possess a powerful magic circuit as a natural part of their existence. So an extremely simplified explanation of them is if a magi is a human that possesses magic circuits, homunculi are magic circuits that possess a human form. They are also already created fully mature and with the knowledge they need but without any experience, hence why Iri is so innocent and naive, as despite technically being a full grown adult she lacks any of the experience a normal adult would have. Though there are some exceptions, for example Illya despite being a homunculus was created through natural means, so unlike normal homunculi she actually does start off as a baby and grows older like a human until reaching her "mature" form. Well, technically speaking Illya isn't really an exception, homunculi are not naturally infertile (though the nature of their creation does often result in physical defects like infertility) so they can have kids, they are just created as tools to serve a purpose and not as their own person, so it's rare for a homunculus to ever be in a position to conceive a child like Iri was with Kiritsugu.
1:30:00 It was mentioned in Episode 1 that Saber's Riding skill is of a high enough rank that she can drive basically any vehicle by instinct, even ones she's completely unfamiliar with. She even says that she could fly the plane they arrived on if she wanted.
1:45:00 It's not explicitly stated but yeah, when parts of the Command Spell are faded like that it's because one of them has been used.
Gilgamesh and Iskander did not need to double team Saber like that on her first night. I have also realised how perfectly some servants represent different sins. Gilgamesh - pride
Iskander - greed
Lancer - lust
Caster- gluttony
Saber - envy
Berserker - Wrath?
47:50-49:26 If this is your favorite episode of Fate Zero then you would LOVE Legend Of The Galactic Heroes 1988, it's all about that.
The focus on the house is there for the same reason Rin got a whole episode. I'll just leave it at that.
With Kariya, i would say attonement actually is a big part of it. Sure, partly he's driven by simple compassion for Sakura just as partly he's driven by hatred for Tokiomi, but a big part of his motivation is guilt for his own choice and a want set things right. He was born as the would be succesor to the Matou family but left, and that's the reason why Sakura was adopted in the first place.
Also with Gilgamesh's words about the two kinds of pride, he's really talking more about Saber than Rider. He left the talk with respect for Rider, but with a deeper interest in Saber. She is the fool with dreams bigger than herself. Rider he likely wouldn't consider a fool at all.
The countdown is counting down to the titular fate/zero 🌚🌝
My take on Iskandar's way of rule and why it regulates itself at a certain scale:
A murdering tyrant can conquer a country before he antagonises the world, an inspiring tyrant can conquer the world and everyone will help him do so
From the moment Fate was on the poll I was looking forward to this talk because I knew we would get a nice cube of yapping^^
Agree. 11 is one of my favorite episodes of Fate/Zero.
To simplify with a single word, this episode shows where the three kings find their source of power:
Saber, her *ideals.* She is king because (beyond the sword in the stone) she safeguards the beliefs and values of her people.
Alexander, his *action.* He is king because his actions inspire and brings others to him.
Gilgamesh, in *objective truth.* He is king, the first king, because the Gods made him king.
In extremes you can see how all three are correct and necessary for kingship, and also how taken too far they loose any grounding. A King must Act, must embody the Ideals of their people, and have an unquestioning Legitimacy. And there are times where these WILL conflict with each other where discernment is needed to chose the best course.
i knew you'd love ep 11, i love it too!
47:14 on point! 😌
ye the problem with kings/dictators/single leaders is simply one person holding too much power. a good king could accomplish way more than a good democracy but you run the risk of having a bad one ruining way more too.
and so on average a democracy is better cause it can mess up less.
I would say makes smaller/more manageable messes, rather than mess up less.
11 episode discussion is just amazing. It would have tremendous and horrible repercussions in real world, but watching and thinking of simpler times of old you just can't help getting swept up in his bright shining example of someone who is just THE GUY.
A loser who ruined his whole country and was betrayed even before his failure of a campaign?
It’s funny how his attemp at flexing with army is pathetic when you remember that canonically a big portion of his army explicitly refuses to be summoned)
@@dhukhdskjgndfnjg5232 you don't need to try flexing so hard
@@NekoJet91 I see a clown - I will call him one , if you find clown to be amazing person…Well that’s on you
Badly ruled democracy vs. Monarchy with a strong leader. That's just Legend of Galactic Heroes.
And yes, Monarchy with Strong leader in most cases would be stronger and more prosperous than badly ruled democracy. The problem is that it's not sustainable and heavily dependant on that strong leader. Which actually leads to Iskandar's argument about ruling through saving and protecting rather than leading and actually building more or less sustainable system that is gonna work even without that strong charismatic leader. It's just a boss who can't properly delegate and micromanaging everything.
This whole debate was designed the way that you can't help but side with Iskandar with this argument despite some really questionable things he was saying because he's really charismatic and Saber's arguments ere framed as some idealistic naive ramblings of a little girl. And he did have a point about martyr. But still, in most other cases this talk would've been framed as Saber being on the right side of an argument. You know the trope, like the best ruler is the one who doesn't want to lead because they're not hungry for the power or whatever. Which I always considered really naive and kinda bs. But it sounds nice for sure. It's not quite the same with Saber but still in the same ballpark.
P.S. Saber is Araragi.
I want to provide some Fate Lore, which the series does not address and it will not be a spoiler. Saber or in this case Artoria had her people die against themselves, they did not fight another country or ruler, the rebellion happened when she was away, and once she returned she saw all her knights fighting, the knights were divided into 2 groups, the ones that supported Artoria and the ones that rebelled against her, the knights for her were like her brothers and sisters, fighting them was very hard for her, and that is why she is so mortified with Britain demise, she does have great grief, she knows something slip out and wanted to fix it so badly, but hearing Iskandar that that could have happened because of her way of thinking a big shock, that she was the reason why that happened, it was kinda making sense on her mind but at the same time denying it.
Saber had a Saint way of life, she did not show any signs of envy, resentment, greed, etc. All her people looked at her as a Saint, Iskandar was admired by his people, but on the other side, Saber was idolized, which was totally different, she was seen as someone so perfect and very far away from every human, and she tried to keep that image for her people to know how to live, but it is very difficult to identify yourself with someone like that, one can try to follow but almost impossible to accomplish, is hard to picture what you could do on her place when she is not around, that is why Iskandar calls her a little girl with petty ideals.
Also, as per Nasuverse (Fate lore), all modern weapons and artifacts comes from Gilgamesh's treasure, he was the first hero, and during his rule he collected all the treasures of mankind, it is rumored that even the Grail, all the Noble Phantasm that exists derives from his vault (All except the one created by mystical entities and alien weapons, and yes, there exist alien servants) when he died, all the treasures were distributed on the earth, and each of them gains their respectful name and Noble Phatams attributes know, so when he says that he owns something, well, he kind have some true on that.
Tell me you didn’t read VN and base Artoria character on shitty Zero without telling me…
@@dhukhdskjgndfnjg5232 Tell me you didn't understand anything about Artoria's character outside of memes and waifu without telling me.
@@lordlubu3029 tell me you didn’t even watch 2006 Fate , much less read VN without telling me.
It’s pathetic how you appear in multiple people’s comments on this specific episode to push Uro delusions(
The banquet scene is some of the biggest character butchery in the whole series simply because this specific writer dosnt like saber. The whole scene treats saber like a little king instead of a king who she was all her life. Normal saber would not falter just becaue two tyrants questiond her ideals. the scene is biggest stain on this series. other stain is people telling people to start with zero for no reason
I like her more in zero actually, and I dont actually think that the scene tries to make her out like some sort of little king. Remember, its up to the viewer how to interpret a scene, and i doubt that most people would disagree with her vision. Also Gilgamesh clearly did not questioned her ideals, at least not to the same extend as Iskandar did.
@@ludwig-alice
It litterly potrays her as a little girl that dosnt know what she is doing instead of a ruthless king that would burn down a town if it meant victory who she was. its not up interpreation its litterly what in the scene, her breaking down with horrified look on her face as litteral tyrant laughs at her ideals, and up until that point she has done nothing impressive so she just comes off as a failure where right after that you have Rider summon his noble phatasm to show off his power. Just to nail in the point. Heck her retoring even a little bit was not even adapted in the anime.
Gilgamesh dosnt care he just wants to enjoy life and rape saber if he can, her mocking her is like his core character.
@@lop90ful1 It's not character butchery, these were always her flaws even in FSN. Saber fanboys just get salty that instead of sucking her off for 50 hours Zero only focuses on her flaws (along with everyone else's flaws) because that's the point of the show. To show the fatal flaw in everyone's character.
Nothing Saber does in Zero is OOC, and Riders opinion of her is just that, his opinion. It makes sense that he would think that of her because he was the complete opposite type of ruler from her, he was selfish and reckless while Saber is self-sacrificing and honest to a fault. They would never get along.
Also Zero doesn't portray Saber as a little girl, Rider thinks of her that way, but that isn't how Zero portrays her. Zero portrays her as a flawed king who had some good traits but was out of touch with the people she ruled. Btw, Zero doesn't portray anyone as just good or bad, they are all flawed. Rider is portrayed as charismatic and a good leader but way too arrogant and short sided. If anything Kiritsugu is portrayed the most negatively of anyone since his entire ideology is chewed up right in front of him and all his ambition s amount to nothing.
You fundamentally do not understand Saber's character. She was not some ruthless badass who did anything to win, idk why people like you think that and completely miss the entire point of her character. Anime fans are so bad at media literacy, that take is on par with the people who watch AoT and think Eren is the good guy. Saber was ALWAYS a tragic hero, she didn't burn done villages because she wanted to and was ruthless. She was forced into those positions due to her ideology and code. Her entire story revolves around how her code of honor and chivalry is fundamentally incompatible with the nature of real war and battle and makes her an inept king, and this is FSN we are talking about not even Zero. FFS she was literally overthrown by her own son and her own knights, Rider was exactly 100% right lol. Also, yea, Saber was a failure....that's kinda the entire premise of her character she failed her kingdom. Rider was also a failure, she points that out. Most of the servants were failures in their life, aside from Gil funny enough.
And here we are...
Great episode, but an awful representation of Artoria
True. It's probably intended to convey a lack of confidence in her own life compared to the others. Ultimately hinting at her wish. I think if any of her knights were talking about her way of rule, they'd actually do a much better job supporting her. Bedi, Agravain, Gawain, etc.
Awful representation? You know how contextualizations work, right? There is nothing wrong with how she's portrayed in this conversation. One person simply took the lead in the conversation. It's as simple as that. It is the audience's choice who's side to take.
Saber fans are just salty that their bae got mocked and shit on big time this episode.
You say that like her wish and ideals aren't exactly the same in FSN.
@@KarIgo87 yeah , because Night Saber would either roast that clown or kill him and waver on the spot for that shit show.
Even F/SF mocks this scene and portrays everyone but Artoria as "wrong" , even mocking rider for his shouting like little kid.
Edit:Pathetic clown blocked me so I couldn’t reply him from my account😢 , sorry for scaring you.
So the biggest Astoria character butchery episode is here , for the record official pols treat Normal Artoria and Zaber as completely different characters.
Normally Saber wouldn’t even acknowledge riders words or point, in VN she isn’t bragging like Gil but is of really high opinion of herself - and for a good reasons, something Zaber lacks because of writer.
Tell me you dont understand zero without telling me you dont understand zero 😂 this is why i consider fate to have one of the top 3 dumbest fandoms its genuinely embarassing how theyve built themselves this idiotic echo chamber that almost makes the aot haters seem more media literate
@@draglonconx7771Tell me you don’t understand Fate without telling me you don’t understand Fate.
@@AmbivalentRay I mean... FSN Artoria had the exact same wish and ideals, it's not like Zero Artoria is a completely different person. Anyone who treats that scene as character butchery just don't understand Artoria, the only difference between FSN and Zero Artoria is that in Zero there is actually someone (Rider) who could properly confront her on her ideals.
@@draglonconx7771 A dumb echo chamber is the last thing I'd call Fate fandom... more like an angry debate parlor. AoT fans were in diapers at the time when essays about the canon status of Zero were being furiously typed up, book ended the most inventive and delightful ad hominems.
@@Midnight-wh2bs ignore Ray, he just parrots the same thing people who skim through Garden of Avalon misinterpret.
Look at the figure Archer picks up when he says about stealing a servant (Kirei is my favorite in any Fate)
Please do not say stuff like this, the only one who thinks that's clever is you.