Robbie C just dropped a 15 ish min diss track on Innova and I’m here for it. Get this farmer his champ pig! Also, “comparable levels of yeet”. Chefs kiss.
I bagged the pig for a long time because of you and I loved it for a long time. I normally would bag three to four pigs at a time even. I stopped bagging the pig because I was in a tournament and threw my most overstable pig directly into a tree on say hole 12. Was sad about the shot but whatever, a couple holes later I’m staring at an island hole with a headwind. Normally no problem for my pig but I pull out my trusty overstable pig, throw it, and watch it flip over and never have a chance of making the island. Went home and bought a zone, haven’t looked back since. Welcome to the club. That being said I would be heavily tempted by a premium flattop pig.
Maybe someday when Trash Panda makes their first overstable approach putter you can send Jessie all those beat in Pigs and recycle them back into their beefiness.
The zone is by far my favorite and most reliable disc. Anything from 250 and closer I always grab my zone crystal flex. I actually lost one at timbrook park on hole 3 while visiting. Maybe when all the leaves fall and change color this fall I will get a surprising phone call.
I've bagged a Z zone for about 2 years now and It's still pretty overstable. It's not as overstable as it started but I actually like where it is right now because if thrown with power it will flip up and ride straight then have the dump off at the end. But I think its a mixture of beating in my zone and gaining more power (went from 300' to 400') but it still pretty stable. But I do have to bag a Zone OS if i need something to dump left, also have a Jawbreaker Zone thats beat that I hyzer flip for the straightest zone flight you will ever see, or a flat to late turn.
Zone lover here. Used to bag the Pig but you're absolutely correct. They are super reliable, until they aren't. I've had an ESP Zone ans a Crystal FLX Zone for over 400 rounds and they still fly the same as they always have. I would have probably gone through 20 or more Pigs during that time. And as a minimalist, I just can't be buying "disposable" discs
I LOVE Pig mold. And when that's the reason I started watching your channel. This past summer, I started trying Discraft discs and Challenger, Zone and Sol is two discs I really fell in love with.
OOOOhhhh Robbie is throwin' down! :D First, I totally agree with the frustration of the Pig... and then I get confused when I see comments from Innova in the last week saying about Halo Pigs... "we can just say that they are different and we weren't happy with the results. We haven't given up." So I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am perplexed by the length of the process. It is a weird limbo world we are in. :D Second, your greatest throw with Precious child was not hole 8 (3) but rather your attempted upshot on hole #11 at Meadow Brook Orchard last year... just sayin'! Thanks buddy.
I've had a tournament harp in my bag for about 2.5-3 years, it's still over stable for me and is one of my most reliable/most thrown disc i carry. Give it a try, you might step away from the zone
The thing that gets me about the Ringer vs Banger Zone is that the vote was so close to 50/50. Literally 1470 votes for the Banger and 1368 for the Ringer. The only good thing about it is that they have made more since the Test Flight Battle Pack. They had a special run at Worlds, and that gives me a lot of hope we’ll continue to see special runs, especially since the internet is pretty adamant that the Ringer Zone is the better of the two.
I feel your pain bro!!! I wish Innova gave back to us!!!! Even if they had to charge a lil more do to mold complications and stuff, I think the true fans would support! I also think more people would bag PIGS if the plastic was more durable.
As a new player the pig was recommended to me as an ‘approach’ disc. It was great and overstable, comfortable and all the good things that we know and love. Then it beat in. I bought two more pigs before I realized that I didn’t want to buy a new pig every month or so to get that consistent OS flight. I bag a zone now. Good choice! As for a possible explanation on why innova doesn’t run pigs in premium plastics I think I may know. The pig is a mold that produces a lot of factory seconds when during the manufacturing process. This means that innova would sell more seconds than stock in a premium plastic. This is would make the mold “hard to make” in premium plastics
They just came out with gStar Rhynos too. If they can sell all those Rhynos, they could sell Pigs. No company just leaves money on the table. It really must be that the Pig mold just doesn't handle premium plastic. Maybe that's a clue as to why nobody else makes anything like the Pig?
uhhhh RPM Kea... (Didn't Robbie do a video on that)... but comes in ALL their plastics... (yes I have both... but still bag the KEA. (though it IS local in NZ)).
i’ve heard a rumor that the pig mold in premium plastic is over the max weight because of how thick the rim is. no idea if that’s true but it would make sense
I've thrown both... What was it Sesame St used to sing.... "One of these things is not like the other"... If you like the PIG.. Try the RPM Kea.. AND it comes in all RPM plastics... And although the Strata (base) plastic does beat in like R-Pro.. it is SUPER sticky when wet.. (Slide a thumb across a wet disc and it goes bup-bup-bup-bup as it sticks, release-sticks, release sticks.. but that pressure release point is way higher than the pressure needed to grip it when throwing...
I actually recently switched away from my Zones thanks to the killer combo of the Discmania Drop and Axiom Tempo, but I had a z-glo zone in the bag for over 2 years which straightened out a LITTLE but was still reliably overstable. Never worried about burning it over. Problem is I was too afraid of losing it because it has one of my favorite dyes and the other zones I've tried did not fly the same, Discraft is just a little too mass produced to rely on consistency from run to run I think. Since there have been so few runs of Zone GTs though I'm sure those would be very consistent
I bag a pig and zone. So many of the same concerns you have, I do as well. My pig is beat to death and takes my straight to almost understable putter slot and my zone is my overstable slot. I just can't have 2 pigs anymore, having your "overstable" pig get straighter and straighter even through a round was just not something I could keep doing.
Robbie have you tried the prodigy A5? It feels like a slightly deeper zone in hand feel, but Its flight resembles more of a pig flight than a zone. Plus, if you got one in 200 plastic it would be very similar to r pro plastic and could beat into a flippy A5 similar to a beat in pig. They offer it in every plastic prodigy offers. I’d recommend one in 200 and one in 400 plastic just to try. The best part about 200 plastic is that they run like $5-$8 a disc. The 400/500/750 are like $15 a disc usually.
I started playing in 2020 and bought at overstable approach disc as per Robbie C's recommendation. That disc was a Paul McBeth 5x Z zone. I still bag that exact same zone and it's still reliably overstable
But on the premium side of things.. innova did a limited run of star pigs for the infinite disc vip group.. i got one and it flies absolutely nothing like a pig should. Brand new it flew dead straight.. Hopefully Innova could make some halo blizzard pigs, cause i at least know those are overstable
I switched to the Rhyno for the premium plastic. Had to go back to a pig for my glow bag, as there are no glow Rhyno’s in production. I agree, the Hailey Proto pig is the nicest run to date.
I'm starting to sound like a salesman for RPM... but here we go... The KEA is rated a bit more glidey but comes in all RPM's plastic incl. Glow. I find RPM glow to be 2nd only to MVP, fading out a little faster... Their strata (base) is VERY grippy when wet and feels like R-Pro but if anything a little more grippy on the grass. I love my strata RPM for back shoulder back hand Anhyzer's into the ground at the base of a target. .. tho Strata beats in like R-Pro. Kea has almost the same rim, no thumb track and lightly bigger bead.
Compare with the Goliath Discs Pillar! I threw it once and immediately knew it was replacing the Zone I had bagged for 2 years. I've got the Oasis, and also the Matt Bell glow version, which is slightly straighter flight.
The Zinger has been my go to Zone since it came out. Love the handfeel over a regular Zone. I really wish it came out as stock but I have 4 backups so I won’t need a new one for a while.
Very frustrating when your favorite disc is only in base plastics; I'm look at you DynamicDiscs, where's is my lucid Deputy??!!! forced me to go Discraft and get an ESP Fierce instead.
But the Fierce, ableit flying great, is not at all feeling like a Deputy for me! Gotta pull my Classic Blend Deputy out and try it on a hyzerflip, been a long time... I think I had problems reaching 230' with putters back then... what if it flies better than my PA-5 in 400! xD
Not the elephant in the room Roby, the Pig in the room 😂 Also, the Pig tattoo will akways be cool as hell. It was an era not to be forgotten. Without the Pig , you wouldn't have any thing to compare the transitiom to. Nothing to go from. So, own the tattoo bro. Number 3 lol... if you do NOT take 5 minutes before every session.to strecth that back, you will be refelectimg on this video here where you clearly point out that you are TIGHT. Basic stretchimg will be the number one reason that you score better, feel better, and have longevity in the sport. It only takes one time getting out of that car and throwing without warning up to at the very minimum causing a strain and it ALWAYS POKING THAT LITTLE PAIN BACK UP at random times making it very hard to commit the swing. Trust me, you don't want that issue buddy. ❤️ the content Ps. I'm a tattoer by the way. When you're ready for another disc golf related tattoo, i will be honored to do that for you. I've gotten so much from you over the past 2 years that it's the least i can do. Heck, get a few buddies, make it a small party and everyone gets disc golf tattooes. No charge. The work that people see on you? Thet would be free advertising to me and very beneficial. Or not lol. But I'd love to meet you one day. God bless
My jawbreaker+z zone was my favorite approach combo for a while, as a forehand dominant player. Unfortunately, I lost my jawbreaker zone in a pond and havent been able to get my hands on another one at a shop since.
I have a 2020 Earheart Z Swirl zone that is still overstable. Bought it used but still has fade right when I got it. It is a little straighter, but it's reliable. Love the Ringer Zone GT for forehand as I love the thumbtrack.
Although not a 1 to 1 comparison to a pig, something that could be worth taking a look at is the RPM discs Kea. The feel is a lot like if a Gator3 had a small thumbtrack on it. And they make it in a wide variaty of plastics. 4303 like a lot of approach discs, haven't thrown it in a bit, but I remember in glow it was a bit beefier than some others like the Harp.
I heard Toro is a great Zone replacement for me personally Zone is the more shallow of approach putters i've felt, so to each of their own, but i also have heard a lot of great things about the A2 from Prodigy because it's that short range overstable approach disc that covers putter and mid range, to me makes me think stiffer rim, not too deep but im also curious how the A2 holds up against the distortion in that category. It's a lot of preference for sure. I have yet to try it but the A2 seems like best of both worlds when it comes to overstable putter but stable mid range ability, which cuts your bag down by a disc or 2.
I think you would love my jawbreaker zone that has been in my bag for a while now 🤗 i can't throw very far but i can still get the disc from hyzer up to flat and then turn 😍
I like the Zone but i wouldn't say im in love with everything about it. I prefer the less premium plastic versions of it, i basically use my jawbreaker Zone as a mid range when i need more reliability. But it seems like as soon as they get to an amazing point in their flight life they get so puddle topped that the middle of the flight plate is nearly even with the bottom of the rim. Which is why i have the elite z zone that i only throw on approaches, so i dont use it to death. Im not really complaining, just saying if i could find something that i could perform with like the zone that didnt turn into a cereal bowl i would love that. Been playing around with the Harp and its a good disc for sure but just doesnt go quite as far. And i love the sokibomb slammer for forehand approaches but its way too stable to be a zone replacement. So long story short im still searching for that perfect balance of everything, the same thing you're talking about in this video.
What's clear from the comments is that's there's no objective answer. The best disc is simply the one that feels best in your hand and you have the most confidence in.
Oh this gets deep. I was unaware that Innova was being stubborn. Hmmm. I know they move different and always have. But you have marketed the Pig like NO OTHER. And they refuse? Ouch. Says nothing about you bro. Come on Innova, listen to YOUR FANS.
I feel your pain but reversed. R Pro Toros are the best but Innova only did one limited run of them. The only hope I have is that Calvin Heimberg has been throwing an R Pro toro and talking about it constantly so maybe we will get another run some day.
I just put a test flight bang-zone in my bag because my esp zone is finally getting too straight after about a year and a half. The esp zone slid into more of an envy slot.
The A2 !! Dropped the Zone, Tactic and others because of the flex options and trust the a2 provides, baggin it in fractal amd 450 glimmer, with the base-fractal slowmy becomming, what the other molds was, and the 450 keeping up apperances 🤩
I love my zone GT ive been throwing it for about 3 months and ive also been playing for 3 months has been flying perfect for me the whole time and i dont plan on taking it out any time soon
Innova allegedly isn’t known for listening to the public. They seem to listen to the owner and maybe a pro once in a while. Even though my OS approach set is a Razor Claw 3 and an Area 51, I hope you enjoy the zone. Not my cup of tea… but many do love them.
I honestly like the Pyro for my Zone style disc. To me they fly about the same. But if you want a deeper rim you should try the Pilot. Love both and the Pilot is an awesome stall shot disc. I can get it to just stop when necessary. I get NOTHING from using MVP/Axiom/Streamline discs (and I get yelled at all the time for talking/using other brands, but if it’s working for me, why should I?) But i don’t think MVP gets the love it needs, especially when it comes to their unused discs (not being used by the pros). They fly great, especially in the wind that my friends have started telling me they are cheater discs. LOL!!! Robbie I know I can’t afford to be part of your birdie fam, but I’ve been here since your beginning and love you as a brother for a multitude of different reasons.
also i own 12 banger top zones because i like throwing them on forehands because i throw split grip. i also have beaten one in to the point of being a berg
So many comments I could make. As a true beginner. I love Banger GT as a putting putter in a C1 putt. As soon as I found it, I knew there was no other. Can’t even putt with a none beaded putter now. Still would rather the Banger top on putting putter. Bought Bang-Zone tester recently just because I love BGT. Also just recently found Pig… Immediately as soon as a touched it, I knew the mold was perfect the way it fit in my hand. That being said, I’m here at this video because I wanted to find a better Pig option than R-Pro, because I’m just not sure about the feel. Now I know that option isn’t there. I also recently picked up Zinger… It comes in today. Wish it had run in more than Z, because I actually hate Z. I guess I’ll have to try it and see how it goes and maybe if I like it I’ll pickup one or more of the testers.
Ledgestone made it in a slightly different plastic, i don’t remember what it was, im sure ledgestone will run the Zinger like they’ve done with other OOP discraft molds.
@@joeydupont7664 the funny thing is to me… A.) I haven’t thrown it or Zone yet. But I’ve kinda strayed away from Zone as a whole because I already had eMac Truth in this position, and because I’m new and don’t know really how to produce a great number of shots (also don’t play a lot of overly technical course that require specific shots, just general shapes.) But… I have a Harp and hate it, even though I love the 9 other WS molds I have. So, when I look at Zone and just see comparable flight numbers as Harp, I really wasn’t all that interested. But when I picked up the Test Zone GT, I got a Chartreuse disc. I’ve also picked up ESP Zone, Wasp, Buzzz (so I have a lot in that area flight numbers wise.) But Pig just feels the best in my hand. And really I don’t play competitive. I’m playing recreational for fun… So Pig would probably take twice as long to beat in for me than the usual person. But when I recently saw a matching Chartreuse Test Zinger come up for sale, I got it so I had a matched set… even though I may not throw them (which is contradictory, because I typically only buy things I intend to use or test.) I think we’ll have to give them all a fair shake, but at current if I were to sale off the surplus 5 speeds I have. I think I’d probably keep eMAC, TSA Pathfinder, and still pickup a pig. On the other side I have a Buzzz SS coming in and a Meteor I’ve yet to throw, but I’d probably just keep Tursas.
My favorite midrange was the '08 Ace Race Nebula. They never put it into production. Then Discraft randomly made limited runs. Their pros start bagging them (Aderhold, Hanley, Callaway, Dickerson). THEY STILL WON'T PUT IT INTO PRODUCTION.
Asking to learn, but why does it have to be Halo? I think either a true Star or a Champion Pig would be sick. Champion is always very stable for me compared to the Star runs. To be honest, I never expect a new plastic to be the magic bullet, but I also don't know more than the basics of Halo.
I love Zones, probably have 10. It's almost the only thing I throw for approaches. Because of you, I do own 2 pigs. I like the Zones being more overstable. I have a Star Toro too. Every now and then I overturn a Pig and Toro. Never happens with a Zone.
What kinda zones are you throwing? Ever since I lost my first ever zone (stock zflx) I've been unable to find one that fights out of a flex forehand consistently. Tried a get freaky, a '24 Hammes and a few others. They're all so touchy about the flex angle.
I made the same change last season. Went to the toro. Never looked back. For some resson my star toro doesnt beat in as fast as the pigs do. I wanted that halo pig so bad . And the nexus pig...base plastic halo?! I was just as shocked. Why would they do us like that 😢
I remain a fan of the Entropy for that slot. I first started playing I went with that company because they were local and their disc selection was not so large as to be impossible to keep track of.
Ye olde zone gt (banger top) and buzzz gt glow in the bag for all fan grip throws and long putts in high wind. My only discraft. Nothing else like it and premium! Mvp should try a new top game, maybe call it a warthog or A-10
I don't even disagree with the points you made here, but I am curious how many people play enough to beat their pigs in so quickly that they need to be swapped out. Still, even if that is the case, a longer swap time is better no matter how long it takes. Personally, I have a pig, aviar and tern in my car as a set of discs to play a quick round if i find myself with the time or sudden availability. They've been there for a couple of years but the expectation is low on what they're will or won't do.
Apparently it's a really hard mold to make in any premium plastic, which are all TPU polymer with various additives to modify the look and feel. The volume inside the pig mold is higher than pretty much any other disc, so premium pigs would weigh around 200g without any blizzarding. The nose shape is also hard to fill when using premium plastics. Innova's GM has talked about this on a few reddit posts which is where I got that info. Base plastics are less dense than premium and (judging from what innova's gm has shared about scrap rates on reddit) are much easier to mold than TPU blends, so making base plastic pigs isn't an issue.
Actually got 3 on release! They were almost Elevation discs level of gummy with an extreme amount of dome. I'm here for them having dome, as I think that'll be pretty standard for the pig in premium. Just need them to have some stiffness to them as most of the premium plastics from innova do!
As a follow up question, why the zone over the sockibomb slammer or original slammer? Curious to hear your thoughts. I like pigs but don't bag them because I don't want to have to constantly buy them. Another option available in premium plastic is the hawg as well. I might have missed it in the video but I am really curious as to why the zone over some of the other thumb track discs available. @robbieCDiscgolf
@@bobbydavis1725 great questions! So t he original slammers fly much more like a Rhyno than a pig. Even less overstable than a pig for sure. The Sockibomb Slammers were Ricky's answer to having a more OS option, but I just feel like until you season them in they are more Zone OS or Justice equivalents than a traditional approach. That's why Ricky also bags a Harp. The zone in all honesty was if i'm going to jump ship for a little bit, might as well go to the most oposite I could of Innova so we're giving the Zone a chance! Also thought it'd be fun since I don't plan on being here forever with it to give a disc that lost a fan fight a chance for the spotlight!
Pig farmers gotta make pork chops. Maybe you don't get a "pig killer" stamp, but you get some kind of fun pork product like bacon or sausage or the aforementioned chops. The design might even be simple. Other ideas appreciated.
I use the banger top ❤ that rim is great for forehand and backhand...my thumb just gets all up in that groove. It's magical what happens with that disc.
Yeah made me sad but I dropped the pig for the zone a month ago and there’s no going back. Those zones stay the same very throw. The pig needs cycled after a few trees😢
Robbie C just dropped a 15 ish min diss track on Innova and I’m here for it. Get this farmer his champ pig!
Also, “comparable levels of yeet”. Chefs kiss.
Love this commentary and opinion piece. You make excellent points. And also, the Zone is the truth. We welcome you into our family with open arms 🤗
I bagged the pig for a long time because of you and I loved it for a long time.
I normally would bag three to four pigs at a time even. I stopped bagging the pig because I was in a tournament and threw my most overstable pig directly into a tree on say hole 12. Was sad about the shot but whatever, a couple holes later I’m staring at an island hole with a headwind. Normally no problem for my pig but I pull out my trusty overstable pig, throw it, and watch it flip over and never have a chance of making the island.
Went home and bought a zone, haven’t looked back since. Welcome to the club.
That being said I would be heavily tempted by a premium flattop pig.
Time for Discraft to capitalize on this and release the Zone (pi)GT
They could do a special "Francis Bacon" edition
Maybe someday when Trash Panda makes their first overstable approach putter you can send Jessie all those beat in Pigs and recycle them back into their beefiness.
^this 👏
@@TrashPandaDiscGolfwondering if a pig related trash panda name could be found for a theoretical pna disc
The zone is by far my favorite and most reliable disc. Anything from 250 and closer I always grab my zone crystal flex. I actually lost one at timbrook park on hole 3 while visiting. Maybe when all the leaves fall and change color this fall I will get a surprising phone call.
I've bagged a Z zone for about 2 years now and It's still pretty overstable. It's not as overstable as it started but I actually like where it is right now because if thrown with power it will flip up and ride straight then have the dump off at the end. But I think its a mixture of beating in my zone and gaining more power (went from 300' to 400') but it still pretty stable. But I do have to bag a Zone OS if i need something to dump left, also have a Jawbreaker Zone thats beat that I hyzer flip for the straightest zone flight you will ever see, or a flat to late turn.
Zone lover here. Used to bag the Pig but you're absolutely correct. They are super reliable, until they aren't. I've had an ESP Zone ans a Crystal FLX Zone for over 400 rounds and they still fly the same as they always have. I would have probably gone through 20 or more Pigs during that time. And as a minimalist, I just can't be buying "disposable" discs
I'd buy a ringer zone with that dye right now.
I LOVE Pig mold. And when that's the reason I started watching your channel. This past summer, I started trying Discraft discs and Challenger, Zone and Sol is two discs I really fell in love with.
OOOOhhhh Robbie is throwin' down! :D First, I totally agree with the frustration of the Pig... and then I get confused when I see comments from Innova in the last week saying about Halo Pigs... "we can just say that they are different and we weren't happy with the results. We haven't given up." So I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am perplexed by the length of the process. It is a weird limbo world we are in. :D Second, your greatest throw with Precious child was not hole 8 (3) but rather your attempted upshot on hole #11 at Meadow Brook Orchard last year... just sayin'! Thanks buddy.
more power to you. we love the pig too. stand up to the man.
I've had a tournament harp in my bag for about 2.5-3 years, it's still over stable for me and is one of my most reliable/most thrown disc i carry. Give it a try, you might step away from the zone
The thing that gets me about the Ringer vs Banger Zone is that the vote was so close to 50/50. Literally 1470 votes for the Banger and 1368 for the Ringer. The only good thing about it is that they have made more since the Test Flight Battle Pack. They had a special run at Worlds, and that gives me a lot of hope we’ll continue to see special runs, especially since the internet is pretty adamant that the Ringer Zone is the better of the two.
Likely will be a ledge stone disc
it's not
I feel your pain bro!!! I wish Innova gave back to us!!!! Even if they had to charge a lil more do to mold complications and stuff, I think the true fans would support! I also think more people would bag PIGS if the plastic was more durable.
As a new player the pig was recommended to me as an ‘approach’ disc. It was great and overstable, comfortable and all the good things that we know and love. Then it beat in. I bought two more pigs before I realized that I didn’t want to buy a new pig every month or so to get that consistent OS flight. I bag a zone now. Good choice!
As for a possible explanation on why innova doesn’t run pigs in premium plastics I think I may know. The pig is a mold that produces a lot of factory seconds when during the manufacturing process. This means that innova would sell more seconds than stock in a premium plastic. This is would make the mold “hard to make” in premium plastics
They just came out with gStar Rhynos too. If they can sell all those Rhynos, they could sell Pigs. No company just leaves money on the table. It really must be that the Pig mold just doesn't handle premium plastic. Maybe that's a clue as to why nobody else makes anything like the Pig?
I just got my g-star rhino. They are unbelievably flat. I really hope that the g-star pig is coming
uhhhh RPM Kea... (Didn't Robbie do a video on that)... but comes in ALL their plastics... (yes I have both... but still bag the KEA. (though it IS local in NZ)).
i’ve heard a rumor that the pig mold in premium plastic is over the max weight because of how thick the rim is. no idea if that’s true but it would make sense
This makes that disc swap at worlds where you got a zone even funnier
The boys at foundation are going to have fun with this
Bro, I think you want the Westside Harp. Always available in a million plastics. Deeper than the Zone. Freakishly good.
Megasoft Harp is a certified winner for dangerous, short approaches.
I've thrown both... What was it Sesame St used to sing.... "One of these things is not like the other"...
If you like the PIG.. Try the RPM Kea.. AND it comes in all RPM plastics... And although the Strata (base) plastic does beat in like R-Pro.. it is SUPER sticky when wet..
(Slide a thumb across a wet disc and it goes bup-bup-bup-bup as it sticks, release-sticks, release sticks.. but that pressure release point is way higher than the pressure needed to grip it when throwing...
My most throw in disc the harp!!
My Moonshine Harp
I actually recently switched away from my Zones thanks to the killer combo of the Discmania Drop and Axiom Tempo, but I had a z-glo zone in the bag for over 2 years which straightened out a LITTLE but was still reliably overstable. Never worried about burning it over. Problem is I was too afraid of losing it because it has one of my favorite dyes and the other zones I've tried did not fly the same, Discraft is just a little too mass produced to rely on consistency from run to run I think. Since there have been so few runs of Zone GTs though I'm sure those would be very consistent
I bag a pig and zone. So many of the same concerns you have, I do as well. My pig is beat to death and takes my straight to almost understable putter slot and my zone is my overstable slot. I just can't have 2 pigs anymore, having your "overstable" pig get straighter and straighter even through a round was just not something I could keep doing.
Robbie have you tried the prodigy A5? It feels like a slightly deeper zone in hand feel, but Its flight resembles more of a pig flight than a zone. Plus, if you got one in 200 plastic it would be very similar to r pro plastic and could beat into a flippy A5 similar to a beat in pig. They offer it in every plastic prodigy offers. I’d recommend one in 200 and one in 400 plastic just to try. The best part about 200 plastic is that they run like $5-$8 a disc. The 400/500/750 are like $15 a disc usually.
Isn't the A5 understable to start? 🤔
Innova Rhyno is my favorite disc of all time!! Got one that is about 16 years old and it is still money!!💰
Welcome to the Zone zone! Hope you enjoy your time here.
Literally just bought my first Pig, they're difficult to find in the UK. What are you doing to me Robbie.
I started playing in 2020 and bought at overstable approach disc as per Robbie C's recommendation. That disc was a Paul McBeth 5x Z zone. I still bag that exact same zone and it's still reliably overstable
I 100% agree. When i first threw a pig absolutely loved it. R-pro was money! Then after like 3 months it flew like a big bead aviar..
But on the premium side of things.. innova did a limited run of star pigs for the infinite disc vip group.. i got one and it flies absolutely nothing like a pig should. Brand new it flew dead straight.. Hopefully Innova could make some halo blizzard pigs, cause i at least know those are overstable
I switched to the Rhyno for the premium plastic. Had to go back to a pig for my glow bag, as there are no glow Rhyno’s in production. I agree, the Hailey Proto pig is the nicest run to date.
I'm starting to sound like a salesman for RPM... but here we go... The KEA is rated a bit more glidey but comes in all RPM's plastic incl. Glow.
I find RPM glow to be 2nd only to MVP, fading out a little faster... Their strata (base) is VERY grippy when wet and feels like R-Pro but if anything a little more grippy on the grass.
I love my strata RPM for back shoulder back hand Anhyzer's into the ground at the base of a target. .. tho Strata beats in like R-Pro.
Kea has almost the same rim, no thumb track and lightly bigger bead.
I audibly gasped when I saw the thumbnail
Compare with the Goliath Discs Pillar! I threw it once and immediately knew it was replacing the Zone I had bagged for 2 years. I've got the Oasis, and also the Matt Bell glow version, which is slightly straighter flight.
I really enjoyed this one, Robbie
My z glo zone is still reliably beefy a year and a half later and I throw it heavily, love that disc.
The Zinger has been my go to Zone since it came out. Love the handfeel over a regular Zone. I really wish it came out as stock but I have 4 backups so I won’t need a new one for a while.
Very frustrating when your favorite disc is only in base plastics; I'm look at you DynamicDiscs, where's is my lucid Deputy??!!! forced me to go Discraft and get an ESP Fierce instead.
But the Fierce, ableit flying great, is not at all feeling like a Deputy for me! Gotta pull my Classic Blend Deputy out and try it on a hyzerflip, been a long time... I think I had problems reaching 230' with putters back then... what if it flies better than my PA-5 in 400! xD
I have a moonshine Deputy…
Not the elephant in the room Roby, the Pig in the room 😂
Also, the Pig tattoo will akways be cool as hell. It was an era not to be forgotten. Without the Pig , you wouldn't have any thing to compare the transitiom to. Nothing to go from. So, own the tattoo bro.
Number 3 lol... if you do NOT take 5 minutes before every session.to strecth that back, you will be refelectimg on this video here where you clearly point out that you are TIGHT.
Basic stretchimg will be the number one reason that you score better, feel better, and have longevity in the sport.
It only takes one time getting out of that car and throwing without warning up to at the very minimum causing a strain and it ALWAYS POKING THAT LITTLE PAIN BACK UP at random times making it very hard to commit the swing.
Trust me, you don't want that issue buddy.
❤️ the content
Ps. I'm a tattoer by the way. When you're ready for another disc golf related tattoo, i will be honored to do that for you. I've gotten so much from you over the past 2 years that it's the least i can do.
Heck, get a few buddies, make it a small party and everyone gets disc golf tattooes.
No charge.
The work that people see on you?
Thet would be free advertising to me and very beneficial.
Or not lol.
But I'd love to meet you one day.
God bless
Sry for the typos, can't find my reading glasses
Perhaps he could add a sunset.... (Pig flying off into...)
My jawbreaker+z zone was my favorite approach combo for a while, as a forehand dominant player. Unfortunately, I lost my jawbreaker zone in a pond and havent been able to get my hands on another one at a shop since.
I have a 2020 Earheart Z Swirl zone that is still overstable. Bought it used but still has fade right when I got it. It is a little straighter, but it's reliable. Love the Ringer Zone GT for forehand as I love the thumbtrack.
A Ringer top Buzzz would be sick!
Although not a 1 to 1 comparison to a pig, something that could be worth taking a look at is the RPM discs Kea.
The feel is a lot like if a Gator3 had a small thumbtrack on it. And they make it in a wide variaty of plastics. 4303 like a lot of approach discs, haven't thrown it in a bit, but I remember in glow it was a bit beefier than some others like the Harp.
I heard Toro is a great Zone replacement for me personally Zone is the more shallow of approach putters i've felt, so to each of their own, but i also have heard a lot of great things about the A2 from Prodigy because it's that short range overstable approach disc that covers putter and mid range, to me makes me think stiffer rim, not too deep but im also curious how the A2 holds up against the distortion in that category. It's a lot of preference for sure. I have yet to try it but the A2 seems like best of both worlds when it comes to overstable putter but stable mid range ability, which cuts your bag down by a disc or 2.
I think you would love my jawbreaker zone that has been in my bag for a while now 🤗 i can't throw very far but i can still get the disc from hyzer up to flat and then turn 😍
I like the Zone but i wouldn't say im in love with everything about it. I prefer the less premium plastic versions of it, i basically use my jawbreaker Zone as a mid range when i need more reliability. But it seems like as soon as they get to an amazing point in their flight life they get so puddle topped that the middle of the flight plate is nearly even with the bottom of the rim. Which is why i have the elite z zone that i only throw on approaches, so i dont use it to death. Im not really complaining, just saying if i could find something that i could perform with like the zone that didnt turn into a cereal bowl i would love that. Been playing around with the Harp and its a good disc for sure but just doesnt go quite as far. And i love the sokibomb slammer for forehand approaches but its way too stable to be a zone replacement. So long story short im still searching for that perfect balance of everything, the same thing you're talking about in this video.
What's clear from the comments is that's there's no objective answer. The best disc is simply the one that feels best in your hand and you have the most confidence in.
Oh this gets deep. I was unaware that Innova was being stubborn. Hmmm.
I know they move different and always have. But you have marketed the Pig like NO OTHER.
And they refuse?
Ouch.
Says nothing about you bro. Come on Innova, listen to YOUR FANS.
I feel your pain but reversed. R Pro Toros are the best but Innova only did one limited run of them. The only hope I have is that Calvin Heimberg has been throwing an R Pro toro and talking about it constantly so maybe we will get another run some day.
Happy Birthday Eliza!
I use a harp for any over stable shots, but honestly, I love my rpro pig for any backhand approaches.
I just put a test flight bang-zone in my bag because my esp zone is finally getting too straight after about a year and a half. The esp zone slid into more of an envy slot.
I bag a zone GT.. also zones just come out of the hand so perfect.. fast and smooth..
The "Get Freaky" Crystal FLX Zone is a little deeper on the inside. Worth a try.
You should try out a soft Zone...I've had one in my bag for three years and it's now more overstable and less glidey than when it was new.😁
The A2 !! Dropped the Zone, Tactic and others because of the flex options and trust the a2 provides, baggin it in fractal amd 450 glimmer, with the base-fractal slowmy becomming, what the other molds was, and the 450 keeping up apperances 🤩
I love the buzzz gt! The new runs have been so good
Im had my current zone for a little over a year. One of my first disc when I started playing.
I love my zone GT ive been throwing it for about 3 months and ive also been playing for 3 months has been flying perfect for me the whole time and i dont plan on taking it out any time soon
@@Solo-qe3lu happy to hear it’s getting love!!
Gateway Devilhawk is a great mold, and available in premium plastic.
Halo Skeeter! Let's gooooooooo
Innova allegedly isn’t known for listening to the public. They seem to listen to the owner and maybe a pro once in a while. Even though my OS approach set is a Razor Claw 3 and an Area 51, I hope you enjoy the zone. Not my cup of tea… but many do love them.
I bag a Buzzz GT and a Bang Zone. Great discs!😊
I have always wondered if Dave just isn’t a big fan of the pig mold
I honestly like the Pyro for my Zone style disc. To me they fly about the same. But if you want a deeper rim you should try the Pilot. Love both and the Pilot is an awesome stall shot disc. I can get it to just stop when necessary. I get NOTHING from using MVP/Axiom/Streamline discs (and I get yelled at all the time for talking/using other brands, but if it’s working for me, why should I?) But i don’t think MVP gets the love it needs, especially when it comes to their unused discs (not being used by the pros). They fly great, especially in the wind that my friends have started telling me they are cheater discs. LOL!!! Robbie I know I can’t afford to be part of your birdie fam, but I’ve been here since your beginning and love you as a brother for a multitude of different reasons.
I do have a dark horse Zone that I do use from time to time (when I lose my Pyro) and an A2 which are both great discs but I just prefer MVP.
also i own 12 banger top zones because i like throwing them on forehands because i throw split grip. i also have beaten one in to the point of being a berg
Jawbreaker zones has that flip capability within a month, but will have a gentle finish. It will start to get warped within a month
So many comments I could make.
As a true beginner. I love Banger GT as a putting putter in a C1 putt. As soon as I found it, I knew there was no other. Can’t even putt with a none beaded putter now. Still would rather the Banger top on putting putter.
Bought Bang-Zone tester recently just because I love BGT.
Also just recently found Pig… Immediately as soon as a touched it, I knew the mold was perfect the way it fit in my hand.
That being said, I’m here at this video because I wanted to find a better Pig option than R-Pro, because I’m just not sure about the feel. Now I know that option isn’t there.
I also recently picked up Zinger… It comes in today. Wish it had run in more than Z, because I actually hate Z. I guess I’ll have to try it and see how it goes and maybe if I like it I’ll pickup one or more of the testers.
Ledgestone made it in a slightly different plastic, i don’t remember what it was, im sure ledgestone will run the Zinger like they’ve done with other OOP discraft molds.
@@joeydupont7664 the funny thing is to me… A.) I haven’t thrown it or Zone yet. But I’ve kinda strayed away from Zone as a whole because I already had eMac Truth in this position, and because I’m new and don’t know really how to produce a great number of shots (also don’t play a lot of overly technical course that require specific shots, just general shapes.) But… I have a Harp and hate it, even though I love the 9 other WS molds I have. So, when I look at Zone and just see comparable flight numbers as Harp, I really wasn’t all that interested. But when I picked up the Test Zone GT, I got a Chartreuse disc. I’ve also picked up ESP Zone, Wasp, Buzzz (so I have a lot in that area flight numbers wise.) But Pig just feels the best in my hand. And really I don’t play competitive. I’m playing recreational for fun… So Pig would probably take twice as long to beat in for me than the usual person. But when I recently saw a matching Chartreuse Test Zinger come up for sale, I got it so I had a matched set… even though I may not throw them (which is contradictory, because I typically only buy things I intend to use or test.) I think we’ll have to give them all a fair shake, but at current if I were to sale off the surplus 5 speeds I have. I think I’d probably keep eMAC, TSA Pathfinder, and still pickup a pig. On the other side I have a Buzzz SS coming in and a Meteor I’ve yet to throw, but I’d probably just keep Tursas.
My favorite midrange was the '08 Ace Race Nebula. They never put it into production. Then Discraft randomly made limited runs. Their pros start bagging them (Aderhold, Hanley, Callaway, Dickerson). THEY STILL WON'T PUT IT INTO PRODUCTION.
Discraft did have the Ringer top Zone pdga approved but they will release it only in limited numbers
Asking to learn, but why does it have to be Halo? I think either a true Star or a Champion Pig would be sick. Champion is always very stable for me compared to the Star runs.
To be honest, I never expect a new plastic to be the magic bullet, but I also don't know more than the basics of Halo.
For me, my Halo discs are much like Champion... but soooo purdy...
hmmmm they could do a Deliverance edition... Squeal like a Pig...
Yooo this has been my secret cheat code forever! Wee bit salty you're calling it out now lol. Jawbreaker zone is great compliment to the Z
I love Zones, probably have 10. It's almost the only thing I throw for approaches. Because of you, I do own 2 pigs. I like the Zones being more overstable. I have a Star Toro too. Every now and then I overturn a Pig and Toro. Never happens with a Zone.
What kinda zones are you throwing? Ever since I lost my first ever zone (stock zflx) I've been unable to find one that fights out of a flex forehand consistently. Tried a get freaky, a '24 Hammes and a few others. They're all so touchy about the flex angle.
@@p0p_t4rt92esp banger gt
I made the same change last season. Went to the toro. Never looked back. For some resson my star toro doesnt beat in as fast as the pigs do. I wanted that halo pig so bad . And the nexus pig...base plastic halo?! I was just as shocked. Why would they do us like that 😢
Like how you replaced the pig with a different disc that doesn’t really exist
My cryztal FLX zone flies straighter than my other zones. I have only had the one though.
I had the exact same issues with pigs.
Im an A2 guy now.
I remain a fan of the Entropy for that slot. I first started playing I went with that company because they were local and their disc selection was not so large as to be impossible to keep track of.
I have similar issue with Thought Space Temple only coming in base plastics. I found the Doomsday Discs Area 51 to be a premium counterpart.
Ye olde zone gt (banger top) and buzzz gt glow in the bag for all fan grip throws and long putts in high wind. My only discraft. Nothing else like it and premium!
Mvp should try a new top game, maybe call it a warthog or A-10
If Ringer Zone had won the zone would still be in my bag.
I’ve had my Get Freaky Zone in my bag for about 3 years now and it’s still overstable. I also bag a color-shift Z Zone that flys a bit straighter.
Try a Gateway Devilhawk in NXT. Or a Platinum Warspear.
They can make blizzard champion pigs which are now super expensive on the secondary market.. Why don't they at least do a run of those every year?
I don't even disagree with the points you made here, but I am curious how many people play enough to beat their pigs in so quickly that they need to be swapped out. Still, even if that is the case, a longer swap time is better no matter how long it takes.
Personally, I have a pig, aviar and tern in my car as a set of discs to play a quick round if i find myself with the time or sudden availability. They've been there for a couple of years but the expectation is low on what they're will or won't do.
my crystal flex zone has been in the back for 3 years
Even if not halo, why not regular star or champion?
Apparently it's a really hard mold to make in any premium plastic, which are all TPU polymer with various additives to modify the look and feel. The volume inside the pig mold is higher than pretty much any other disc, so premium pigs would weigh around 200g without any blizzarding. The nose shape is also hard to fill when using premium plastics. Innova's GM has talked about this on a few reddit posts which is where I got that info.
Base plastics are less dense than premium and (judging from what innova's gm has shared about scrap rates on reddit) are much easier to mold than TPU blends, so making base plastic pigs isn't an issue.
Both gt zones got approved, they are only making the banger top though
My zone has been in my bag since at least 2021
Loved it! 😭 😭 😭
I hope you get the 😇 🐷!
I have had the same Z FLX zone in the bag for 4 seasons now, still way over stable
@robbiec, what about the gummy champ pigs? I know they are impossible to get now, but couldn't you have gotten a bunch of them when they came out?
Actually got 3 on release! They were almost Elevation discs level of gummy with an extreme amount of dome. I'm here for them having dome, as I think that'll be pretty standard for the pig in premium. Just need them to have some stiffness to them as most of the premium plastics from innova do!
As a follow up question, why the zone over the sockibomb slammer or original slammer? Curious to hear your thoughts. I like pigs but don't bag them because I don't want to have to constantly buy them. Another option available in premium plastic is the hawg as well. I might have missed it in the video but I am really curious as to why the zone over some of the other thumb track discs available. @robbieCDiscgolf
One final thought, you just need to convince Jesse to make a pig-esque mold at Trash Panda. Premium faux-pigs for days.
@@bobbydavis1725 great questions! So t he original slammers fly much more like a Rhyno than a pig. Even less overstable than a pig for sure. The Sockibomb Slammers were Ricky's answer to having a more OS option, but I just feel like until you season them in they are more Zone OS or Justice equivalents than a traditional approach. That's why Ricky also bags a Harp. The zone in all honesty was if i'm going to jump ship for a little bit, might as well go to the most oposite I could of Innova so we're giving the Zone a chance! Also thought it'd be fun since I don't plan on being here forever with it to give a disc that lost a fan fight a chance for the spotlight!
@@bobbydavis1725 we need you Jesse! I heard Rumors that a pro in the gyro community was looking for a thumbtrack option :)
Rubber blend Zones get even straighter.
He says "it's seen some things" 🤣🤣🤣
The day I actually purchase my first PIG Robbie Drops this video >.
I just bought my first pair 2 weeks ago
I'd buy two halo-star pigs tomorrow if you are listening Innova.
do you sell this shirt? I love it!
I throw a yikun hammer...I'd love to try the pig but I refuse to until it's in a premium plastic
Pig farmers gotta make pork chops. Maybe you don't get a "pig killer" stamp, but you get some kind of fun pork product like bacon or sausage or the aforementioned chops. The design might even be simple.
Other ideas appreciated.
How do you like the Soft Pigs?
loved them for a base plastic/rain option! I have one in my tournament backups box in case a rain round is coming because they are so tacky!
I use the banger top ❤ that rim is great for forehand and backhand...my thumb just gets all up in that groove. It's magical what happens with that disc.
@@chris287 happy to hear it’s getting love!!
Yeah made me sad but I dropped the pig for the zone a month ago and there’s no going back. Those zones stay the same very throw. The pig needs cycled after a few trees😢