Meet The Gaffer #78: More Menace Arm Rigging & Multi-Guest Interview
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2024
- Here we visit a set where long menace arms are being used to light a 6 guest, 1 host interview for a national network show.
Here's the link: www.today.com/...
What's sadly ironic in retrospect is that the beginning of the show, you've got Matt Lauer acting like this is a really important topic...
Great episode! Thank you so much for taking the time to put these together!!!
This is nothing compared to what you do! Thank you.
Well I think this stuff is wizardry and love how you break it all down for us noobs. Would love to buy you a beer or two or three someday!
That sounds good to me:) I should know this, but where are you based?
I'm in Chicagoland. Hit me up if you're ever in town!
Will do! I grew up in Worth (South West of Chicago), But have not been back more than 3-4 times since the early 70’s:)
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain with this breakdown, much appreciated!
This breakdown was so educational! I'm not at this level yet but these videos make me want to take my productions further.
Love the breakdown. Thank you so much! This is quite invaluable especially if you don't alway get on these kind of sets with these kind of challenges.
This channel is such a great resource. Being able to see a pro set and learn from an experienced professional is invaluable. Thank you for putting the time and effort into these videos, they have helped me tremendously!
I’m glad you find it helpful! All the best out there, Tyler.
Great info and thanks for the video walk through a video program clip. I'm new to gagging and I often miss key info when viewing overhead diagrams. Thanks for taking time to produce these videos,
I love how each person would solve the problem on their own way. For instance I would most likely have placed some furniture clamps with ratchet straps on the beams in the ceiling to support the weight on the end of the menace arms. Great episode.
I was thinking the same, but I noticed how bent the speedrail is, just using support at the end with ratchet straps between the beams could become a safety issue, last thing he wants is a skypanel on a lady's head and to not get called back for another shoot. Maybe he safety chained to something on the ceiling ?
If you look at 8:08 you can see a concrete beam crossing the ceiling from left to right. I was thinking 4 furniture clamps with ratchet straps strait down to the menace arms.
It is very possible, that the property manager or owner doesn't want any gear hanging off their building including their metal beams. We have encountered that scenario before. Doesn't matter if it is historical or not, it is not up for debate. We must abide to their wishes, after all we are guests to their property even though the production pays a rental for it.
@@EDDY69 I'd hope that "not getting called back" is not the worst consequence a gaffer could imagine in the event a skypanel was dropped on someone's head!
Mad skills - you are off the hook, Mr Seerveld! The walk throughs at the end are super helpful in understanding exactly how you rigged this plot: I'm guessing you must carry this kit as standard issue? Knowing what to do with it is a different matter! Another outstanding teaching resource - thank you so much!
Great looking segment! Lighting, location, direction....all came together really well. I loved that they used so many cameras. All the close ups were great. PS: It's horrible that this is going on, but it seems like a great time for empowering women. I hope it makes a difference.
Thanks for all the great videos you produce! It's excellent getting information from a pro such as yourself. I draw inspiration and knowledge from your channel, that I can now use professionally. Thank you good sir!!
You are most welcome. Happy to help!
First off, thanks for putting in the extra work to show us your magic.
I just wanted to let you know that American now makes a pretty robust double menace arm kit. It has four shotguns added to a menace arm kit which slides over two speed-rails.
Looking forward to seeing that!
@Luke Seerveld I've watched every single one of your videos over time and always a pleasure to learn from you. Ironically I was doing research on menace arm after your episode a few days ago and wished you went deeper into it. Whatdoyaknow....it's Christmas in January. Ah the magic of "TV Time". Only half way through and by far your best. Currently have it paused on checking out your rig for the set. Forget the menace arms. That goalpost is THE REAL MVP! Cheers! And thanks for all you do! Chin up when times are rough. Your "fans" are definitely watching!
Thank you! Appreciate the encouraging feedback... I’m glad there are people out there who find the effort worthwhile:)
You cannot believe how helpful this totally specialised, professional insight is to students of the craft of lighting. I recommend this resource to all my Year 3 students at Birmingham City University. You are cutting edge, my friend, no textbooks discuss the situations you cover,, period.
Great! Glad to be of service. It would be fun to visit your neck of the woods some day... I’ve only been as far as Oxford.
If you’re interested, I added a link to a photo that Alan sent showing the over-under technique of the second stand in a two stand config. It’s in the explanation of MTG#77. Cheers.
@Luke #BringBackPieMakingEpisodes ;-)
So great that you show these setups. Thank you.
👍🏻
Rewatching some of these older videos for my own lighting inspiration, it is fun to see how my CRLS lightbridge can be used to effectively cut down so much of the worry of the weight on the end of the menace arm!
Do you light two person interviews with far side keys using CRLS?
@@meetthegaffer unfortunately i got my crls end of 2019. By the time i got a chance to use them all of 2020 happened and I didn't work the whole year. So we shall see what 2021 brings. For now, I do little experiments at home and get inspiration from a select few youtubers! :)
Ha, ha!
Wow, great info in here. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Luke! Great video, thanks for breaking this down. I've got a question regarding a rig I've gotta do in a few weeks and wanted your input.
We need an overhead rig for a dinner scene over a 10' table. We can't drill into any surfaces in the rental space. I figured a sturdy combo or crank stand on both ends and using two lengths of 8' 1.25" speedrail joined together by a menace arm sleeve with the post on top. Then ratchet strapping from the post to both ends of the speedrail to prevent bowing. Lights will probably be 2-3 litemat 4s with soft grids. Thoughts on this? Thanks!
That will work fine, but I doubt you’ll need the ratchet strapping for a few LiteMats. Just a regular sleeve should do. Interestingly, when there is a bow due to weight in the middle of a length of pipe, you want to invert the menace fitting and ratchet on the bottom side. Is this instance you prob don’t need either way. Hope that makes sense.
Great video! I love the electrical distro video! please make another going over electrical equipment and just some basic distro for larger lights!
Hi Matt, We’ll see what happens, but these days I don’t end up on too many larger shoots. It will happen, but probably not right away:)
Following from the start! When I saw this construction I was wondering why you didn’t use a truss combined with two or more crank-up stands. Thanks.
Great breakdown as usual Luke, thank you. Quick question as I noticed you said for this setup there was only you with the help of the camera crew. When do you add a spark to your team (lighting team and not in the camera side of things?). I’m a fairly young gaffer based in London, UK an decently transitioned from DPing.
It’s always part of the early conversations! How many crew are you allowed? On smaller shoots the favorite answer is that there will be people to help😉 The main thing is thinking through how much time you will actually have to load-in, set-up the first shot, and then breakdown to move to the next set-up, or even jump ahead to the next shot while the first is being shot. You have to reinterpret what you are being told into reality. That takes experience. Other people will always downplay how much time it will take you, so you need to think it through and stand up for your department. If you have time you can do a lot alone, but will you have that time and will it be safe? In time you get a feel for the personnel, expertise, and time it will take to complete given scenarios. And then always figure there may be delays for unforeseen issues you may have no control over. If time is not an issue on the back-end, I always ask that we add to the front-end. It never healthy to rush:)
Thanks for sharing!
Nice explanation, thank you!
Great video! Thank you going over all the options! These detailed breakdowns are invaluable! I mostly use the mini boom with a counterweight (I have that lead bar on a rope from yesteryear, if you can picture that), and sometimes I have used ratchet straps too. What do you think about the Kupo boom arm support? It looks like it creates a 45degree angle support from stand to boom arm. It seems good, but was wondering if you have experience with it.
You did a menace video too, right?
I don’t have experience with Kupo.#77&78 talk about menace arms a bit...
Was that the DP, with the camera, who’s cable nearly snagged on the stand? Bit scary to watch. Nice rig. C
Norwegian here who really appreciate your quality content! Just a question regarding menace arms and attachment to combo stands. With this set up would you feel ok with using a normal lollipop junior grip head where the head is slightly offset, or is it necessary to get a center grip head for this to be safe? I'm just a beginner (not doing this professionally) and will probably use lighter lights and somewhat shorter reach than shown here, but want the option for something a bit longer than the Avenger junior boom arm I already have. Since I'm on a budget it would help to get only the normal grip head with a junior receiver to make it more versatile for other set ups. I see the Matthews Hollywood Grip Head has the grip head closer to the center than other options (like the Avenger), so maybe that could work. Thanks for taking the time!
Offset is fine, I’m just picky😀
@@meetthegaffer Thanks! 🙏
Hi thank you for all your tips. When you say scratch light what do you mean by that?
Hi Redd,
One of the invaluable sections of Alan Steinheimer’s book, “Shaping Light For Video”, is the many pages of glossary...
Scratch Light: An edge light, often subtle, delineating one side of the subject’s head. Hope that helps!
Thank you Luke! Learning a lot from you!
Hi Luke,
I was wondering if I could get your opinion on something?
I have been thinking about building a menace arm and I wanted to know if you thought it would work and if you consider it a safe rig. Here is the rig: an Avenger Super Wind-up Stand, (rated at 176 lbs.), a Menace arm kit, 3 pieces of 4' x 1-1/2" speedrail, (4' behind the stand & 8' in front of it, with coupler), 3 ratchet straps, and the payload is an Aputure Nova p600c, (the light is 30 lbs, plus 5 lbs for accessories.
I went a little heavy on my choice of stand, but I could not find anything I liked with a payload of 100-150 lbs. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks,
Mathew
That should work just fine. The stand does sound quite beefy… I’m not familiar with those, but I’ve seen pictures.
@@meetthegaffer Thanks Luke! Hey Andrew Lock did a good episode on the Avenger Super Wind-up Stand if you want to watch it.
would it have been possible to shorten the Menace arm and move them closer to the position where you had jerry rigged the speedrail support system? It seems that if you could get away with the speedrail stands not getting in the shot then you probably could have done the same with the menace arm stands. PS great Video!
Wondering the same too.
In retrospect it may have been possible, but you know how it is when you map things out on a set up day and try to provide as much room as possible because it’s not precisely known where all the cameras will land. Once they landed I was able to find two spots for the goalpost stands, which have a much smaller footprint than the menace arm stands. It’s a dance:)
Makes sense! An insight to real world situations.
Luke Seerveld that‘s such a good point you make.
Every setup is different, and the less you know before, the more Improvisation you have to do on set.
This improvisation is a part of this work I love.
Thanks for sharing all this.
I under it's a matthews brand but what is the exact menace arm model you were using? It seems longer than the one's I've found
This is all speed rail, 1 1/4” aluminum, schedule 40 pipe. The menace arm kit is from Modern Studio Equipment, not Matthews. Hope that helps?
it does, thank you
Hi Luke, the pipe of the goal post is bending quite a lot... Not too risky?
With experience you learn what is safe, but often it’s wise to make other people feel safe by having as little bend as possible. In this case it was safe but as you point out, to some it may appear on the edge.
@@meetthegaffer That´s right. I am not familiar with goal posts (nor building with pipes), so I wondered.
It’s a good question because safety should always be top of mind:)
Very interesting! I guess an autopole would have been easier for those skypanels, but was the gap too long and the lights too heavy for that or was it just easier to do this way with so little crew?
Well, the placement wasn’t quite right and yes the length and strength probably not up to it:)
Serious looking setup for this one. I can't imagine how you rigged that on your own
I had help from the camera and sound guys, just not dedicated grips:)
Thanks!!!!!!!!!
Your welcome:)
Do you remember the lengths of speed rail you used?
They were probably 12ft + 8ft pipes connected to make 20ft lengths, something like that. But it was 5 years ago, so not sure. 😬
I would start with one big chimera pancake with joker 400 and do some extra block/soften on different side of the light, instead of put so many heavy grip on two s60s
This might have worked, maybe with an 800 joker, but everyone was seated quite far apart. The trick was getting a good amount of soft yet directional light, from the lowest vantage point, as opposed to just a soft glow from above, into the faces of the women in the individual chairs, including the host. I love that everyone is trying to solve the problem in their own way. There is no one perfect way:)
Indeed. You had a very complex problem to solve and I can only imagine it takes all your many years experience to find the solution you explained. Priceless!
Hot damn, this is a good one.
Ha, ha! I’m glad you find it helpful.
nice set up but i can't believe that production didn't allow you to bring 1 or 2 sparks/grips.I mean you brought quite some stuff and from experience i think that it's hardly a good idea to be ok with "just" some PA's helping you to set up all that because it takes more time to explain everything than doing it yourself and it's just safer.no offense to the PA's,i started out as one as well and without them the set just wouldn't work....anyways,enough rambling.i like your style : )
Yup, that has been my experience at times when working on network affiliated pieces where the original exec producer doesn’t believe a separate lighting person is needed. The camera person in charge often has to sell a kidney to bring someone like me on and then it’s assumed everyone will help. I said yes, so it’s on me... and I had a great time:)
please put affiliate links i wanna help your have great reviews
Do you mean amazon or B&H links to gear?
Yes please. Love to help financially help you buy buying gear through your link
Sorry, I’m a crappy marketer🤪
Out of interest.. a half sheet poly (4.4 polysteren board) could have been rigged instead of the S60 fixtures then a fresnel focussed on that from far back? mass above the talent.. about .5 kg? I would think you could have hung poly from the sprinkler system rods?
Maybe! A lot of ways to approach it. When shooting up into a bounce you have to have a clear path for the beam of light. With all the moving parts I didn’t really know what to expect.
I get you on the beam of light thing especially with roaming can ops or the director changing the the blocking. Overall it seems the s60 kippered you a bit - they seem quite heavy compared to plastic panels or even flexible panels on four by frames.
.. My next buy will definitely be a flexible/cloth panel that could be taped to a ceiling, wall or bit of poly. Any tips beyond Brightcast?
A lot of people use LiteMats by LiteGear. Up to this point I have not really been a fan. What I like about LiteMats are the “barndoors” and diffusion system. I don’t like that they aren’t flexible, that output was not exciting, and the connectors and lack of straightforward DMX. I like Aladdin’s cable connectors and battery/DMXable solution. What I’m looking forward to is Aladdin’s 3’x3’ Fabric Lite.
hahaha love it
Dennis
Following from the start! When I saw this construction I was wondering why you didn’t use a truss combined with two or more crank-up stands. Thanks.
Good point! That could have worked, but I didn’t have crank-ups readily avail by the time I realized the Skypanels were a bit much for my first attempt @ rigging:)
Luke Seerveld Thanks, I was just wondering if and when you make a ‘switch’. Or if trusses are used at all on the road. I am used to gaffers ‘protecting’ their knowledge and it is nice to have people like you who likes to share. Grtz from Belgium :-)
If I did the same rig over and over I would figure out a better way of doing it, but since it doesn’t come up that often I don’t sit down and consider all the options and plan ahead to the next time I have to rig a similar Q&A... but I should! Thank you to everyone for keeping me on my toes:)