I own a 2020 Mini Cooper Electric which replaced my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, it weighs about 100 kg more than it's virtual equal ICE version and has 54% (front axle) 46% (rear axle) weight distribution compared to 64% (front axle) 36% (rear axle) weight distribution of its ICE equal, the Mini Cooper Electric also has a lower centre of gravity than its ICE equal and it holds the road better than its ICE equal. (I'm an ex international HGV1 driver, used to transporting hanging meat, the centre of gravity of a truck carrying such loads, is basically on the top of the trailer instead of being on the trailer floor, when carrying pallets of goods, a trailer loaded with pallets, will hold the road far better than a trailer loaded with hanging meat, due to a trailer loaded with pallets, having a lower centre of gravity) I have found that the tyres on my Mini Cooper Electric, last the same miles, than they did on my Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, (I have a "bad???" habit of, replacing my tyres way before they even reach the legal tread depth limit), I also check my tyre pressures and tyre conditions, EVERY TIME that I charge up, and I have a quick look at the brake discs too, also being an ex mechanic, I use a rechargeable pump, to check and/or inflate my tyres and don't wait for a warning light on the dashboard about that, as I know that, tyre pressures, fluctuate with air temperatures or if you have hit a big pot hole. Now to Barry's misunderstandings about tyres, especially on EVs, (other than when tyres are on EVs and ICEs that are virtually equal, they really do wear out at the same rate, when a proper driver is behind the wheel), the higher rate of EV MoT failures, due to tyre issues, isn't due to "tyre issues" at all, no, its due to an EV being slightly heavier than its ICE equal, so when an EV hits a big pot hole, its tracking may be shifted slightly, AND, most "bog standard" drivers, of EVs or ICEs, cant be arsed, to actually check their tyres, regularly, with a tyre tread depth gauge, so they don't notice a slight increase of wear, on one side of their tyre(s) due to tracking issues, caused by the big pot hole, BUT, that gets picked up at the MoT inspection, NO PROBLEM, lets face it, most drivers of modern cars, wait for a warning light on their dashboard, telling them which tyre needs inflating and they only blow that one up, without actually inspecting it, for slightly uneven wear, with a tyre tread depth gauge. Driving a car properly, especially an ICE, should be "a grubby experience", without relying on computer dashboard warning lights, that you simply can't trust, like, checking the oil, with the dipstick and oily rag, then wipe yer filthy hands, on yer best chinos after that, LOL, check the water level too, mmm anti freeze, is just sooooo toxic, dont yer sandwiches "taste a bit funny" after dealing with anti freeze, brake fluid level next, get some of that on yer hands, and touch some paintwork, and bingo, that paintwork starts to bubble, (since owning my Mini EV, I have had no reason whatsoever, to purchase and store in its boot, any brake fluid, anti freeze or engine oil. either and "filling up????" an EV is damned cleaner than, getting traces of petrol and diesel on yer hands too, my flippin hiking boots last longer too, with an EV, as I'm not standing in a dried up puddle of petrol/diesel while filling up, that eventually dissolves the glue, that holds the soles of my hiking boots on, hm, as Barry appears to be "obsessed with particulates" LOL, when yer charge an EV, yer only walk about 5 meters, to plug and unplug, BUT, when yer fill up an ICE, yer have to walk a lot further, to and around and back from the shop till too, so "what about the extra particulates from ICE drivers footware Barry" OK so thats being a pedantic nit picker, on a MONUMENTAL SCALE, but, its still "extra particulates" (for people like Barry)
Tyre particulates are huge in comparison to exhaust particulates. Most sources state averages of about 20microns, and in the sampling systems we manufacture and operate we see them ranging from about 7microns to 200 microns, we sample at 0.5, 1.5 and 3 metres above ground level and see very few tyres particles in the upper two sampling points. Tyres particulates are too large to pass through the lungs into the bloodstream, in fact even at 7 micron they would be unlikely to reach the lungs at all, so although unpleasant they're not a major risk. On the other hand, exhaust particulates tend to include lots of PM0.1, i.e. 0.1micron, which can easily cross into the blood stream and on into cells, they have even been found in unborn children. The important thing to remember is many of the fearmongering articles about tyre particulates reference reports that state figures in mg/mile or mg/km. A 7micron particle, which won't make it into your lungs, is nearly 350000 times heavier than 0.1micron particle that could potentially carry a carginogen directly into a cell. The average of 20microns is 8 million times heavier, so even if claims of there being 1850 times more tyre particulates (by mass) than exhaust particulates were true, it still means there are 4000 times more actual exhaust particles for us to inhale.
Barry I’m a motorist and a cyclist. I can tell you that EVs accelerate much harder at roundabouts. When estimating a gap I now have to assess if it’s an EV or an ice car. Now if as I have experienced EVs accelerate faster and their drivers like to exploit this performance then this and the increased weight will increase both tyre and road wear.
I'm not denying that some people will exploit every ounce of acceleration of an EV , but they will be the same people thrashing a Golf GTI around for example. So to transfer that scenario to all EV drivers is just fanciful. Plus to say EV drivers don't look after their brakes or tyres ? ... Where did that come from? ... EV drivers are just standard people driving an electric car , some will abuse it , the majority won't , no different to any other car type.
@@MyAmiVice Why would you think EV drivers don't look after brakes or tyres? My EV cost a lot of money so I am going to look after it. You have become very cynical recenty, I much preferred the old Barry.
@@MyAmiVice I call bullshit,how can you make such a stupid statement abt not looking after an ev...as you know most evs will come with an 8 to 10 year warranty and to keep this warranty up they have to have their cars serviced otherwise the warranty is worthless,come on ...have a day off.I get alot of ppl are not fans of evs because maybe they dont like the idea of being forced into buying one...but so much bullshit is on the net and mainly churned out by ppl who oppose ev`s
My tyres need changing about 10% more frequently than my previous car of a similar weight (diesel Golf vs Corsa EV). That’s the same route with the same driving style. So this ‘myth’ is actually true. And I am also quite a careful driver who doesn’t hoon it around or accelerate like a demon unless it is necessary. Ok, ok, maybe occasionally I like to put the foot down when no one is around. So I would happily believe EV tyre wear is going to be 10 to 30% more than an equivalent ICE car.
Fleet managers say EVs and ICE cars wear out tyres at the same rate, Fleet being the operative word, none of those drivers give a monkey’s about tyre wear or fuel consumption because they don’t pay. Clarkson & co on Top Gear said the quickest car is a hire car, same scenario. My local tyre guy told me that the best tyre wear on an EV that he’s seen was 30k the average will be 20/25k the worst 13k miles. My guess is most EV drivers use them like white goods.
Depreciation would bother me. And watching the queue for chargers at the motorway services on a busy day. And finding a mechanic / spares when something goes wrong. And the cost for something that's so simple is just silly. Maybe in ten years time when they get solid state batteries sorted and they can be repaired at a reasonable cost.
you need to keep up, the report says that tyre particulates are deadlier than exhaust fumes, why do you think the EV shills lie about how many miles they get out of their tyres?
What you mean fumes like carbon dioxide and water- the main products of ICE cars. Carbon dioxide that with an atmospheric concentration of 0.04% has absolutely nothing to do with our planet's climate and never has. We had our greatest Ice Age when carbon dioxide comprised 6% of our atmosphere. If it didn't heat up our climate then why do you believe it does so know? And just a little thing for you to think about because you are obviously incapable of thinking. Every single thing you ate today started out as atmospheric carbon dioxide. Do you want me to prove why?
@@dps615 So do mine. I've now done 30,000 miles and still on original tyres. I've never seen a report that says tyre particles are worse than exhaust fumes. Hard to believe in a town when cars move slowly but ice cars give off considerable fumes.
So its interesting how tire wear is suddenly now an environmental hazard. When tires have been rolling on the roads for over a century now with no visible evidence of tire particulates overwhelming the streets.
@@MyAmiVice My EV gets through tyres at the same rate as my previous ICE, mid 20k on the front, 40k on the rear, no better no worse. They're also exactly the same tyres, i.e. same brand, size, speed rating and load rating. However, the brake discs and pads do last much longer, I'm in the north Highlands so lots of hills and single track roads, both of which are very heavy on brakes. On an ICE I'd be changing pads every year, so about 23k miles with discs every second year. I changed them on the EV at 96k miles purely because of corrosion, there was minimal wear,
Beware of the false equivalence argument of comparing an EV tyres to a car exhaust. You need to compare the tyres of the two types. If you are going to compare the EV tyres to the car exhaust, then you need to add the ICE car tyre wear as well to the figures (EV will still lose to ICE, but it will now be using the correct data).
@@javelinXH992 in my experience, my EV tyres wear pretty well. I've done 22k miles in a Kona EV , front tyres still have 2mm of tread on ... Yes if I spun the front wheels up at every junction , I would get through a lot of tyres. But the same could be said for some of my old diesel cars. They had lots of low end grunt too.
@@eddewhurst7662 Just to back up your point, it says there are more by mass, a very important distinction when the average tyre particle is literally millions of times heavier than an average exhaust particle.
I don't know why you only mention EVs ( well I do know for clicks of course). Surely all the tens of thousand delivery vans Range Rovers Audi Q8s etc are all heavier than EV's. My EV has just turned 30,000 miles and is on original tyres.
you're happy to accuse people with financial interests in the EV market of misinforming for personal gain, while being a used car salesman, who has said EVs are bad for used car salesmen, disparaging EVs
@@zigzacpaddywhack4212 i sell cars, it doesn't matter to me whether they are internal combustion, or spontaneous combustion EVs, which bit of that are you struggling with, also I am retiring so none of it will affect me financially, do you have any other analogies that will be wrong too? or are you gooing to accept that you are wrong ?
I own a 2020 Mini Cooper Electric
which replaced my old Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol,
it weighs about 100 kg more than it's virtual equal ICE version
and has 54% (front axle) 46% (rear axle) weight distribution
compared to 64% (front axle) 36% (rear axle) weight distribution of its ICE equal,
the Mini Cooper Electric also has a lower centre of gravity than its ICE equal
and it holds the road better than its ICE equal.
(I'm an ex international HGV1 driver,
used to transporting hanging meat, the centre of gravity of a truck carrying such loads,
is basically on the top of the trailer instead of being on the trailer floor,
when carrying pallets of goods, a trailer loaded with pallets, will hold the road
far better than a trailer loaded with hanging meat, due to a trailer loaded with
pallets, having a lower centre of gravity)
I have found that the tyres on my Mini Cooper Electric, last the same miles,
than they did on my Mini Cooper 1.6 petrol, (I have a "bad???" habit of,
replacing my tyres way before they even reach the legal tread depth limit),
I also check my tyre pressures and tyre conditions, EVERY TIME that I charge up,
and I have a quick look at the brake discs too, also being an ex mechanic,
I use a rechargeable pump, to check and/or inflate my tyres and don't wait for
a warning light on the dashboard about that, as I know that, tyre pressures,
fluctuate with air temperatures or if you have hit a big pot hole.
Now to Barry's misunderstandings about tyres, especially on EVs,
(other than when tyres are on EVs and ICEs that are virtually equal,
they really do wear out at the same rate, when a proper driver is behind the wheel),
the higher rate of EV MoT failures, due to tyre issues, isn't due to "tyre issues" at all,
no, its due to an EV being slightly heavier than its ICE equal,
so when an EV hits a big pot hole, its tracking may be shifted slightly, AND,
most "bog standard" drivers, of EVs or ICEs, cant be arsed, to actually check their tyres,
regularly, with a tyre tread depth gauge, so they don't notice a slight increase of wear,
on one side of their tyre(s) due to tracking issues, caused by the big pot hole,
BUT, that gets picked up at the MoT inspection, NO PROBLEM,
lets face it, most drivers of modern cars, wait for a warning light on their dashboard,
telling them which tyre needs inflating and they only blow that one up,
without actually inspecting it, for slightly uneven wear, with a tyre tread depth gauge.
Driving a car properly, especially an ICE, should be "a grubby experience",
without relying on computer dashboard warning lights, that you simply can't trust,
like, checking the oil, with the dipstick and oily rag, then wipe yer filthy hands,
on yer best chinos after that, LOL, check the water level too, mmm anti freeze,
is just sooooo toxic, dont yer sandwiches "taste a bit funny" after dealing with anti freeze,
brake fluid level next, get some of that on yer hands, and touch some paintwork,
and bingo, that paintwork starts to bubble, (since owning my Mini EV,
I have had no reason whatsoever, to purchase and store in its boot, any brake fluid,
anti freeze or engine oil. either and "filling up????" an EV is damned cleaner than,
getting traces of petrol and diesel on yer hands too, my flippin hiking boots last longer too,
with an EV, as I'm not standing in a dried up puddle of petrol/diesel while filling up,
that eventually dissolves the glue, that holds the soles of my hiking boots on,
hm, as Barry appears to be "obsessed with particulates" LOL,
when yer charge an EV, yer only walk about 5 meters, to plug and unplug,
BUT, when yer fill up an ICE, yer have to walk a lot further, to and around and back
from the shop till too, so "what about the extra particulates from ICE drivers footware Barry"
OK so thats being a pedantic nit picker, on a MONUMENTAL SCALE,
but, its still "extra particulates" (for people like Barry)
Tyre particulates are huge in comparison to exhaust particulates. Most sources state averages of about 20microns, and in the sampling systems we manufacture and operate we see them ranging from about 7microns to 200 microns, we sample at 0.5, 1.5 and 3 metres above ground level and see very few tyres particles in the upper two sampling points.
Tyres particulates are too large to pass through the lungs into the bloodstream, in fact even at 7 micron they would be unlikely to reach the lungs at all, so although unpleasant they're not a major risk. On the other hand, exhaust particulates tend to include lots of PM0.1, i.e. 0.1micron, which can easily cross into the blood stream and on into cells, they have even been found in unborn children.
The important thing to remember is many of the fearmongering articles about tyre particulates reference reports that state figures in mg/mile or mg/km. A 7micron particle, which won't make it into your lungs, is nearly 350000 times heavier than 0.1micron particle that could potentially carry a carginogen directly into a cell. The average of 20microns is 8 million times heavier, so even if claims of there being 1850 times more tyre particulates (by mass) than exhaust particulates were true, it still means there are 4000 times more actual exhaust particles for us to inhale.
thanks for that
Barry I’m a motorist and a cyclist. I can tell you that EVs accelerate much harder at roundabouts. When estimating a gap I now have to assess if it’s an EV or an ice car. Now if as I have experienced EVs accelerate faster and their drivers like to exploit this performance then this and the increased weight will increase both tyre and road wear.
Couldn't agree more, I've got an old leaf that doesn't have the HP of modem EVs therefore a little kinder on the front tyres.
and more accidents by the sound of it, they drive faster and don't look after their brakes or tyres, what could possibly go wrong?
I'm not denying that some people will exploit every ounce of acceleration of an EV , but they will be the same people thrashing a Golf GTI around for example. So to transfer that scenario to all EV drivers is just fanciful. Plus to say EV drivers don't look after their brakes or tyres ? ... Where did that come from? ... EV drivers are just standard people driving an electric car , some will abuse it , the majority won't , no different to any other car type.
@@MyAmiVice Why would you think EV drivers don't look after brakes or tyres? My EV cost a lot of money so I am going to look after it. You have become very cynical recenty, I much preferred the old Barry.
@@MyAmiVice I call bullshit,how can you make such a stupid statement abt not looking after an ev...as you know most evs will come with an 8 to 10 year warranty and to keep this warranty up they have to have their cars serviced otherwise the warranty is worthless,come on ...have a day off.I get alot of ppl are not fans of evs because maybe they dont like the idea of being forced into buying one...but so much bullshit is on the net and mainly churned out by ppl who oppose ev`s
Why are there new unregistered EVs at a major auction site?
becase they cannot sell them at showrooms
Have you got a link to these "sites"
My tyres need changing about 10% more frequently than my previous car of a similar weight (diesel Golf vs Corsa EV).
That’s the same route with the same driving style.
So this ‘myth’ is actually true.
And I am also quite a careful driver who doesn’t hoon it around or accelerate like a demon unless it is necessary. Ok, ok, maybe occasionally I like to put the foot down when no one is around.
So I would happily believe EV tyre wear is going to be 10 to 30% more than an equivalent ICE car.
Fleet managers say EVs and ICE cars wear out tyres at the same rate, Fleet being the operative word, none of those drivers give a monkey’s about tyre wear or fuel consumption because they don’t pay. Clarkson & co on Top Gear said the quickest car is a hire car, same scenario. My local tyre guy told me that the best tyre wear on an EV that he’s seen was 30k the average will be 20/25k the worst 13k miles. My guess is most EV drivers use them like white goods.
Depreciation would bother me. And watching the queue for chargers at the motorway services on a busy day. And finding a mechanic / spares when something goes wrong. And the cost for something that's so simple is just silly. Maybe in ten years time when they get solid state batteries sorted and they can be repaired at a reasonable cost.
When has anyone ever said ev tyres give off less particulates? Of course they dont but they dont pump out carsagenic fumes like ICE vehicles
you need to keep up, the report says that tyre particulates are deadlier than exhaust fumes, why do you think the EV shills lie about how many miles they get out of their tyres?
@@MyAmiVice only in my case the tyres on my EV last for much longer than my previous ICE car. Dont beleive all the crap you read or hear
What you mean fumes like carbon dioxide and water- the main products of ICE cars. Carbon dioxide that with an atmospheric concentration of 0.04% has absolutely nothing to do with our planet's climate and never has. We had our greatest Ice Age when carbon dioxide comprised 6% of our atmosphere. If it didn't heat up our climate then why do you believe it does so know? And just a little thing for you to think about because you are obviously incapable of thinking. Every single thing you ate today started out as atmospheric carbon dioxide. Do you want me to prove why?
@@dps615 So do mine. I've now done 30,000 miles and still on original tyres. I've never seen a report that says tyre particles are worse than exhaust fumes. Hard to believe in a town when cars move slowly but ice cars give off considerable fumes.
Built with fairy dust and the batteries will disappear into another dimension at the end of their life.
So its interesting how tire wear is suddenly now an environmental hazard. When tires have been rolling on the roads for over a century now with no visible evidence of tire particulates overwhelming the streets.
its the EV shills that started it claiming that their tyres do moon miles, and their brake discs, blame them
That's "tyres" not tires. Happy to help.
Who is claiming tires last much longer on EVs? On every EV forum I check people say that tires wear are much faster than in ICE car.
Because now they jump from „short range” to tires wear 😉
@@MyAmiVice My EV gets through tyres at the same rate as my previous ICE, mid 20k on the front, 40k on the rear, no better no worse. They're also exactly the same tyres, i.e. same brand, size, speed rating and load rating.
However, the brake discs and pads do last much longer, I'm in the north Highlands so lots of hills and single track roads, both of which are very heavy on brakes. On an ICE I'd be changing pads every year, so about 23k miles with discs every second year. I changed them on the EV at 96k miles purely because of corrosion, there was minimal wear,
Beware of the false equivalence argument of comparing an EV tyres to a car exhaust.
You need to compare the tyres of the two types. If you are going to compare the EV tyres to the car exhaust, then you need to add the ICE car tyre wear as well to the figures (EV will still lose to ICE, but it will now be using the correct data).
did you read or listen to the report? it said that tyre particulates were more deadly than exhaust fumes
@ Absolutely am aware of it and how correct it is. Also aware that apparently ICE cars emit no particles from their tyres and never have done.
@@MyAmiViceNo it didn't, it says there is more. Tyre particle size is larger and far less dangerous.
@@javelinXH992 in my experience, my EV tyres wear pretty well. I've done 22k miles in a Kona EV , front tyres still have 2mm of tread on ... Yes if I spun the front wheels up at every junction , I would get through a lot of tyres. But the same could be said for some of my old diesel cars. They had lots of low end grunt too.
@@eddewhurst7662 Just to back up your point, it says there are more by mass, a very important distinction when the average tyre particle is literally millions of times heavier than an average exhaust particle.
I don't know why you only mention EVs ( well I do know for clicks of course). Surely all the tens of thousand delivery vans Range Rovers Audi Q8s etc are all heavier than EV's. My EV has just turned 30,000 miles and is on original tyres.
Yeah my Tesla is 4,000lb and my previous truck Toyota4Runnner was over 4,500lb.
you're happy to accuse people with financial interests in the EV market of misinforming for personal gain, while being a used car salesman, who has said EVs are bad for used car salesmen, disparaging EVs
Used Car Salesmen are still driving Diesels.
yep, i have 2 evs 😂 myself, so next question please, oops it seems i have just bought another one 😂
@@MyAmiVice a beef farmer being a vegetarian doesn't preclude them from having a vested interest in the continued consumption of beef
@@zigzacpaddywhack4212 i sell cars, it doesn't matter to me whether they are internal combustion, or spontaneous combustion EVs, which bit of that are you struggling with, also I am retiring so none of it will affect me financially, do you have any other analogies that will be wrong too? or are you gooing to accept that you are wrong ?