Finally, someone asking a decent question. Darnold has improved a lot over the past two seasons. I highly recommend watching Darnold through his 2022 and 2023 seasons. I definitely think he can play to at least Kirk Cousins level and win the division. Folks also seem to conveniently forget that Kirk was pretty bad for his first 3 seasons too, and that was after being coached up on the sidelines. Kirk went 1-0, 0-3, 1-4 with 4 TDs and 3 INTs, then 4-7, then 10-9. So 2 wins 7 losses, 18 TDs vs 19 INTs That was arguably worse than Darnold's first seasons after getting thrown in the deep end - 13 Wins 25 Losses, 45 TDs and 39 INTs.
not really true about Cousins, though. His first three seasons he wasn't the starter. You're taking stats from games he played because RG3 was out. When he finally became the starter he put up three 4,000 + yard seasons in a row before he was traded to Minny. It's just not a very apropos comparison. A QB that was thrown into the deep end as a starter would be a better comparison. Maybe Darnold can do that, too, I just think it's not a very apt comparison. I agree it's a good question about Darnold, tho.
@@stuartanderson6785 That's my point though. Sam was thrown into the deep end on a bad roster and struggled, and 3 years later folks still see him like that. Cousins was protected, given time to learn and develop, and still struggled every time he was called on for his first 3 seasons too, even worse than Sam. And I'm sorry, but Kirk continued to be a mid QB for the next 7 seasons, only once getting to 10 wins. His stats looked good, but he also struggled in the big moments, and threw plenty of INTs. His results for those 7 seasons were no better than Sam's composite two seasons for the Panthers (8-9). Kirk does have a higher completion ratio than Sam, but how much of that is also a function of situation and supporting cast? Darnold has never had decent targets that could get open. Another offset to Kirk's passing is Sam's massive advantage over Kirk in pocket agility and as a rusher. The bottom line is that Kirk's career didn't really take off until KOC became HC, and arguably the Jettas, Addison, TJ triumvirate. The unknown is how good Darnold can be when also put in a good, QB friendly situation? On his draft pedigree, Darnold should be as good if not better than Kirk and JJ. On his tools, again Sam should be clearly better than Kirk, and pretty similar to JJ. NFL games are won on small margins. An increase in production for Darnold of just a few percentage points, and a corresponding minor decrease from Kirk, and it might be hard to judge between them.
@@robe2504 I actually don't disagree with you at all on your primary point. I just don't think Cousins is a very good comparable. Agree to disagree on that minor point.
If Darnald is really good, I think you sign him to a 2 year $50m contract and continue to prepare McCarthy for another year or two. Maybe try to trade Darnald in the 3rd year of his contract. That's what I'd do. Worst-case scenario is McCarthy surpasses Darnald during that time, you have an expensive backup. Not a terrible problem to have. Or if Darnald is just that much better than McCarthy then you trade McCarthy. Having two good QB options moving forward isn't a bad problem to have at all. Skol!
If he's good, there's zero chance he signs for 25 million a year. Mayfield got 3 years/100 million. Darnold would get more than 40 million just from being franchise tagged.
It would be hard to get rid of him if he balls out. It becomes a business call then, can we keep him at cost for another 1-3 years? and improve the team? The push for a ring is expensive but we need a team! Start JJ and improve the team or go all in with SD?
Vikings should design a GOLD/YELLOW jersey with PURPLE lettering and White Shadow behind the digits like the 49ers used to use. that would look beyond sharp.
I think he will be good this year. He was a high first round pick for a reason, and we all know you can't count the years in the New York Jets system where they destroy every rookie QB.
Carolina was no better When Darnold was there and I think he was injured both seasons with the Panthers. Darnold hasn't yet had a decent shot at a successful season, and I hope he thrives at Minnesota.
KOC is a great coach and has the ability to improve a Solid B player into an A player. Look what he did with Kirk Cousins. Darnold has the physical tools. There are a number of great quarterbacks who struggled early, like Peyton Manning. A great coach and culture + an above average offensive line + an excellent receiving corps + a great running back = a great opportunity.
The Vikings are notorious for getting a retread QB and make it work. Cunningham was a great example. The problem is to know when to let them go. More examples. Case Keemun. He was a backup and shined the time he started for us. My guess is, he does ball out. I would resign him for another year, unless we can trade him and everyone is happy with the trade.
extend him and keep jj learning. since he is not being rushed. love sat behind Rogers. Rogers sat behind farve it works. hopefully JJ will take a solid #2 spot over mullins.
Unfortunately, the answer to this question is pretty easy. He still leaves after a single season here and signs elsewhere for a substantial contract. The Vikings can't afford to pay him a big veteran salary AND keep McCarthy in the wings while "promising" him a future job. The only thing that could change this is if KoC and Kwesi are SOOOO blown away by him that they want to commit to Darnold long term and full-on shelve the McCarthy experiment -- maybe even trade him. I don't view that as a feasible outcome.
T w o grades as you suggest, he's really good, has the team playing well....playoffs? Division? What if he's solid good, and the defence is really dangerous......playoffs? Division? As for JJM the next year , as Dave said that's a great dilemma for head office to make a hard decision.
Denver offered Keenum north of $30 mil. The Vikings got Cousins initially for $28 mil for the first three seasons. Their first mistake was an unconditional contract extension. Their second mistake was a second unconditional contract extension.
It's laughable that the Vikes have gone with Darnold as a mentor for JJ. They could have had Wilson for a cool million, and JJ could have really learned from him, but now he's going to learn from a back up QB. Smooth move. If Darnold is doing well in OTA's and then pre season..........don't mean nothing. Nick Mullens will be QB 1 by week 8, and he stinks too.
Some other QB comebacks from crappy teams: Vinnie Testaverde, Steve Young, Baker Mayfield...It's not that uncommon. I think Sam Darnold is going to look great for the Vikings. He's finally getting first team reps with a legit NFL offense. 2024 is going to be Darnold's epic redemption, "Told you so" season. NFL should have a rule that bans the worst teams from playing a rookie QB in their first season. The "QB redshirt rule," or something. Too many top prospects are getting buried and traumatized by NFL defenses. It lowers the quality of quarterback play, and it has to have a negative impact on the watchability of the sport.
Best case is you put the franchise tag on him. Maybe you pay that one year if mccarthy isnt good enough, or you can trade darnold and hopefully get a pick or two from another team.
I'm not sold on Sam Darnold. He has alot to prove before fans will get on the bus, And some of us don't understand why you draft a top ten QB only to sit him for a year. if Donald sucks, Then your doing the same thing by forcing McCarthy in too fast or Just starting him right away. If McCarthy hits the benchmarks by the coaching staff, Then he should start.
Any Rookie should make a 7-year vet look good. People are starting to talk about Donalds next contract. That would be a Viking thing to do. Jump back into a cousin's situation after we drafted our guy. LMAO
The national talking heads have written Sam Darnold off judging that we will win 4 games; Vegas says 6.5 wins ?? Huh? Thinking we are in the tank without cousins 😮 skol we are going to slap butt🎉
If we can keep JJ learning, footwork , muscle memory, the playbook and learning the process of reading defenses... We will be having a hall of famer in the making😮
My gosh! Have you seen the white uniforms? We are purple, gold and white. Silver???? Nooooo! That a dreaded raider color….i’m an old school fan, cold/ice uniforms…play the game outside. Don’t get me wrong, I like the new stadium but….we are Vikings!!! SKOL!
If Darnold is good and Vikes get off the fast start in 2024 trade him to a QB needy team before trade deadline. Then you see what McCarthy has to offer. If JJ not ready in 2024 play Mullins. Vikes made their bed with JJ, there is no turning back. That $38M is needed in 2025 to fill other holes.
JJ gets traded way before Sammy. If 27 year old Sam impresses everyone then the team starts building around him and sheds JJ for draft picks to shore up holes and drops taxing development project. Sam would become the franchise guy and JJ would want out anyways and not wait for a bad year because Darnold is tough and usually stays healthy. Let he be someone else's project and start reinforcing OL and defense of back field.
If Sam Darnold was "REALLY GOOD", chances are he wouldn't be on his 4th team in what, 7 years? The real question should be "Is Sam Darnold serviceable"? Can he reverse his penchant to toss picks in a new offense, very complex, I might add, with new receivers, going against some VERY talented defenses? If he can, great. if he cannot, fans will be calling for McCarthy. They won't get him though. Fans will get Nick Mullins, another interception machine. I know, I know, Darnold was the 3rd pick "for a reason". Ryan Leaf was the 1st pick, ahead of Payton Manning, "For a reason" too. I doubt McCarthy see's the field this season. The dude has some serious accuracy issues currently. If he cannot overcome them, he'll be another Ryan Leaf, Trey Lance, Johnny Football type. Fans will then be cursing the GM for allowing Kirk to walk, one of the most accurate QB's in the league.
Finally, someone asking a decent question. Darnold has improved a lot over the past two seasons. I highly recommend watching Darnold through his 2022 and 2023 seasons. I definitely think he can play to at least Kirk Cousins level and win the division.
Folks also seem to conveniently forget that Kirk was pretty bad for his first 3 seasons too, and that was after being coached up on the sidelines. Kirk went 1-0, 0-3, 1-4 with 4 TDs and 3 INTs, then 4-7, then 10-9. So 2 wins 7 losses, 18 TDs vs 19 INTs
That was arguably worse than Darnold's first seasons after getting thrown in the deep end - 13 Wins 25 Losses, 45 TDs and 39 INTs.
not really true about Cousins, though. His first three seasons he wasn't the starter. You're taking stats from games he played because RG3 was out. When he finally became the starter he put up three 4,000 + yard seasons in a row before he was traded to Minny. It's just not a very apropos comparison. A QB that was thrown into the deep end as a starter would be a better comparison. Maybe Darnold can do that, too, I just think it's not a very apt comparison.
I agree it's a good question about Darnold, tho.
@@stuartanderson6785 That's my point though. Sam was thrown into the deep end on a bad roster and struggled, and 3 years later folks still see him like that.
Cousins was protected, given time to learn and develop, and still struggled every time he was called on for his first 3 seasons too, even worse than Sam.
And I'm sorry, but Kirk continued to be a mid QB for the next 7 seasons, only once getting to 10 wins. His stats looked good, but he also struggled in the big moments, and threw plenty of INTs. His results for those 7 seasons were no better than Sam's composite two seasons for the Panthers (8-9).
Kirk does have a higher completion ratio than Sam, but how much of that is also a function of situation and supporting cast?
Darnold has never had decent targets that could get open.
Another offset to Kirk's passing is Sam's massive advantage over Kirk in pocket agility and as a rusher.
The bottom line is that Kirk's career didn't really take off until KOC became HC, and arguably the Jettas, Addison, TJ triumvirate.
The unknown is how good Darnold can be when also put in a good, QB friendly situation?
On his draft pedigree, Darnold should be as good if not better than Kirk and JJ.
On his tools, again Sam should be clearly better than Kirk, and pretty similar to JJ.
NFL games are won on small margins. An increase in production for Darnold of just a few percentage points, and a corresponding minor decrease from Kirk, and it might be hard to judge between them.
@@robe2504 I actually don't disagree with you at all on your primary point. I just don't think Cousins is a very good comparable. Agree to disagree on that minor point.
If Darnold is great you stick with the hot hand.
If Darnald is really good, I think you sign him to a 2 year $50m contract and continue to prepare McCarthy for another year or two. Maybe try to trade Darnald in the 3rd year of his contract. That's what I'd do. Worst-case scenario is McCarthy surpasses Darnald during that time, you have an expensive backup. Not a terrible problem to have. Or if Darnald is just that much better than McCarthy then you trade McCarthy. Having two good QB options moving forward isn't a bad problem to have at all. Skol!
If he's good, there's zero chance he signs for 25 million a year. Mayfield got 3 years/100 million. Darnold would get more than 40 million just from being franchise tagged.
I hope that oline can protect Darnold.
It would be hard to get rid of him if he balls out. It becomes a business call then, can we keep him at cost for another 1-3 years? and improve the team? The push for a ring is expensive but we need a team! Start JJ and improve the team or go all in with SD?
JJ mccarthy could've started LAST YEAR NFL Q1
Vikings should design a GOLD/YELLOW jersey with PURPLE lettering and White Shadow behind the digits like the 49ers used to use. that would look beyond sharp.
I think he will be good this year. He was a high first round pick for a reason, and we all know you can't count the years in the New York Jets system where they destroy every rookie QB.
Carolina was no better When Darnold was there and I think he was injured both seasons with the Panthers.
Darnold hasn't yet had a decent shot at a successful season, and I hope he thrives at Minnesota.
i got the vikes at 11 and 6 or 10 and 7, darnold makes playoffs!
KOC is a great coach and has the ability to improve a Solid B player into an A player. Look what he did with Kirk Cousins. Darnold has the physical tools. There are a number of great quarterbacks who struggled early, like Peyton Manning. A great coach and culture + an above average offensive line + an excellent receiving corps + a great running back = a great opportunity.
You nailed it!
The Vikings are notorious for getting a retread QB and make it work. Cunningham was a great example. The problem is to know when to let them go. More examples. Case Keemun. He was a backup and shined the time he started for us. My guess is, he does ball out. I would resign him for another year, unless we can trade him and everyone is happy with the trade.
Technically speaking, even Tarkenton was a retread brought in from a dismal Giants organization.
extend him and keep jj learning. since he is not being rushed. love sat behind Rogers. Rogers sat behind farve it works.
hopefully JJ will take a solid #2 spot over mullins.
It would nice to have SAM play good enough to keep JJ on the bench for many seasons.
Tag twice. Trade on the 2nd tag before the deadline if he’s borderline MVP for 2.5 years
Jj mccarthy rookie season Will turn out similar to his Top target All pro receiver justin jeffersons
Week 3 Starting QB #9JJ MCCARTHY
Any black ice on that uniform? 👍
I’m having a good feeling with slinging Sammy but then again, I had a good feeling with Ryan Leaf.
Except unlike Ryan, Sam is still in the league.
@@oel734 Of course, no two players are the same. I think Sam will ball out and move on to a new team next year with a fat contract.
Unfortunately, the answer to this question is pretty easy. He still leaves after a single season here and signs elsewhere for a substantial contract. The Vikings can't afford to pay him a big veteran salary AND keep McCarthy in the wings while "promising" him a future job.
The only thing that could change this is if KoC and Kwesi are SOOOO blown away by him that they want to commit to Darnold long term and full-on shelve the McCarthy experiment -- maybe even trade him. I don't view that as a feasible outcome.
If you can keep the top NFC QB for $38-40 million a year... you do... it's a no brainer.
I hope Sam plays lights out, wish him the best this coming season 🍀If not hopefully McCarthy learns from watching and is the Q/B of the future !!
if Darnold goes Nr 1-time for a Heads have !
T w o grades as you suggest, he's really good, has the team playing well....playoffs? Division?
What if he's solid good, and the defence is really dangerous......playoffs? Division?
As for JJM the next year , as Dave said that's a great dilemma for head office to make a hard decision.
Let's hope he really is good!
That's a good problem to have and I think he is going to be really good.
Good show Tyler 👍
We extend him . Im pulling for the former number 3 pick to shine .
You sign his ass if he balls out…
In all respect to Kyrie Jackson R.I.P But if the Vikings ever deserved a compsitory pick is Now
The Vikes moved pass Case Keenum. Case was atop of the NFC in 2017-2018. The Vikes really didn't have a QB to move to in 2018 til they got Cousins.
No, Case was nowhere near the top.
Denver offered Keenum north of $30 mil. The Vikings got Cousins initially for $28 mil for the first three seasons. Their first mistake was an unconditional contract extension. Their second mistake was a second unconditional contract extension.
I like the uniforms as an alternate. I think they look great. I would not like them if this was a permanent change.
If Sam is really good, the Vikings have a really good situation on their hands.
It's laughable that the Vikes have gone with Darnold as a mentor for JJ. They could have had Wilson for a cool million, and JJ could have really learned from him, but now he's going to learn from a back up QB. Smooth move. If Darnold is doing well in OTA's and then pre season..........don't mean nothing. Nick Mullens will be QB 1 by week 8, and he stinks too.
Theoretically, Darnold's failures as a top 10 pick make him a great mentor
Then he's rich
Some other QB comebacks from crappy teams: Vinnie Testaverde, Steve Young, Baker Mayfield...It's not that uncommon. I think Sam Darnold is going to look great for the Vikings. He's finally getting first team reps with a legit NFL offense. 2024 is going to be Darnold's epic redemption, "Told you so" season. NFL should have a rule that bans the worst teams from playing a rookie QB in their first season. The "QB redshirt rule," or something. Too many top prospects are getting buried and traumatized by NFL defenses. It lowers the quality of quarterback play, and it has to have a negative impact on the watchability of the sport.
Best case is you put the franchise tag on him. Maybe you pay that one year if mccarthy isnt good enough, or you can trade darnold and hopefully get a pick or two from another team.
National Media gives them no chance to be any higher than 4th in the division.
National media had the Bengals coming 4th in the division when they went to the SB. They also had the Rams going to the SB, when they went 5-12.
I'm not sold on Sam Darnold. He has alot to prove before fans will get on the bus, And some of us don't understand why you draft a top ten QB only to sit him for a year. if Donald sucks, Then your doing the same thing by forcing McCarthy in too fast or Just starting him right away. If McCarthy hits the benchmarks by the coaching staff, Then he should start.
If he’s really good, then he’ll get a boatload of money somewhere else!
The Young Purple show
It would make my day if Sam turned out to be better than Kirk.
Any Rookie should make a 7-year vet look good. People are starting to talk about Donalds next contract. That would be a Viking thing to do. Jump back into a cousin's situation after we drafted our guy. LMAO
Bullshit clearly we have a vision where we're going it's withh jj not Sam
I think we need to prepare for if he sucks
Minshew isn’t starting for the raiders this year
I’ll believe that when I see it. Think he’s better than AOC and they paid him like he is
Franchise tag and keep him or trade for picks
The national talking heads have written Sam Darnold off judging that we will win 4 games; Vegas says 6.5 wins ?? Huh? Thinking we are in the tank without cousins 😮 skol we are going to slap butt🎉
If we can keep JJ learning, footwork , muscle memory, the playbook and learning the process of reading defenses... We will be having a hall of famer in the making😮
If he's really good wouldn't he just hit free agency and take the biggest contract he can get?
depends how deep they go into the playoffs, maybe?
they sure look pretty ... but can they fight ...lol
Pay him 50Mil
nothing we've seen out of his career says he will be good.
LOL. Team without a weakness…….
No, the Vikings white out uniforms are WAY better than the Bengals.
If darnald is really good trade him for bunch of draft pucks in 2025...get some draft picks back ....we have very few picks in 2025
If he's GOOD 😂 START JJ MCCARTHY ASAP 😂
My gosh! Have you seen the white uniforms? We are purple, gold and white. Silver???? Nooooo! That a dreaded raider color….i’m an old school fan, cold/ice uniforms…play the game outside. Don’t get me wrong, I like the new stadium but….we are Vikings!!! SKOL!
It's for one game geeze. I think they are amazing looking and the players all love them.
We're going to playoffs book it
I admire your enthusiasm.
what did he know?
Hopefully we lose our pumpkin heads🐻⬇️
Darnold is 🗑 😅 ya'll will never win a superbowl till 2030s ur rookie qb is mid
If Darnold is good and Vikes get off the fast start in 2024 trade him to a QB needy team before trade deadline. Then you see what McCarthy has to offer. If JJ not ready in 2024 play Mullins. Vikes made their bed with JJ, there is no turning back. That $38M is needed in 2025 to fill other holes.
That is insane. If the Vikes get off to a fast start, they will not torpedo the season if they do not feel JJ is ready.
JJ gets traded way before Sammy. If 27 year old Sam impresses everyone then the team starts building around him and sheds JJ for draft picks to shore up holes and drops taxing development project. Sam would become the franchise guy and JJ would want out anyways and not wait for a bad year because Darnold is tough and usually stays healthy. Let he be someone else's project and start reinforcing OL and defense of back field.
If Sam Darnold was "REALLY GOOD", chances are he wouldn't be on his 4th team in what, 7 years?
The real question should be "Is Sam Darnold serviceable"?
Can he reverse his penchant to toss picks in a new offense, very complex, I might add, with new receivers, going against some VERY talented defenses?
If he can, great.
if he cannot, fans will be calling for McCarthy. They won't get him though. Fans will get Nick Mullins, another interception machine.
I know, I know, Darnold was the 3rd pick "for a reason".
Ryan Leaf was the 1st pick, ahead of Payton Manning, "For a reason" too.
I doubt McCarthy see's the field this season. The dude has some serious accuracy issues currently.
If he cannot overcome them, he'll be another Ryan Leaf, Trey Lance, Johnny Football type.
Fans will then be cursing the GM for allowing Kirk to walk, one of the most accurate QB's in the league.