They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques. It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - th-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html For example, th-cam.com/video/xAbqucrWHjU/w-d-xo.html I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below: The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people. If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs. Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking. Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display... And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :). Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder. I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card. Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card? I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading. The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know. Please try running it from the sd card for now.
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist. - Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
Check out this video for some great info on cleaning and calibrating PVMs: th-cam.com/video/yoBqm4ThJxw/w-d-xo.html Also, if you're looking to pick up a PVM (who isn't?), try checking with any local doctors or hospital staff you know as they may have decommissioned some. The medical versions are great because they will likely have way fewer hours of use than the ones used for surveillance.
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! th-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
I really love your work but I can't seem to find that video you talked about (the one about the crt geometry fix).. Are you planning to release it any time soon or is it a canceled project?
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling. At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
Silly question, but if I have two CRTs that I play Sega and SNES on respectively, can I get away with calibrating both of them with only a Sega 240p Test Suite (using my Mega Drive for both), or is it ideal to use the specific console you are intending to use the CRT for. Just looking if I can save having to buy a Sega cartridge as well as a SNES cartridge. Thanks!
[Try4ce] Generally, using just one to calibrate a setting that would be nice between most retro consoles would be enough, but if you're really looking to get super super specific to the characteristics of each system, they do vary a bit.
Hello, I just bought a 34-inch CRT brand Samsung Tantus CL-34Z7HE is HDTV. I notice immediately that it looks better than a crt SD tv, however the image is not very clean, it is noticeable as noise and the edges of the letters have greenish on one side and red as a chromatic aberration. Do you know if it can be fixed with a service and how much would it cost? I really doubt that's it´s definitive image.
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
I've been trying to get the 240p Test Suite working on my Gamecube, but it just won't load. I've got an ntsc Gamecube, I am trying to load the test suite dol using the SD loader software. The gamecube is connected to an LG hdtv with component cables. Nothing happens when I load it using just the SD loader software and when I try it with Swiss it gets stuck loading at 98%. Any advice what I can do or should look for?
Hi. I need to adjust the geometry of a CRT monitor with VGA adapter that connected to a PC. I don`t have a console like PS1 PS2 etc. Is there a way to run 240p Test Suite without a console?
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
[Try4ce] Not yet, but it's a high priority. We're trying to work with professional CRT techs on the episode, but making that happen has taken some time. We definitely don't want to put out bad information on the subject!
Anyone know how the menu responds to user-interface specifically? Like running from a DVD player without a remote, would track forward/backward and play/stop be enough?
so if i find a more modern crt (with flat screen) that actually does have an rgb scart port its still likely that ill have to adjust the screen geometry right?
if I plug only the blue plug of my wii component cable, will this give me a "blue only mode" just so i can calibrate my crt tv saturation with this tool?
I can't get my SNES to display audio or video on my Samsung 1080p HDTV and it is driving me nuts. Tried RF (ch 3 or 4) and AV composite (yellow-red-white). I cleaned pin connectors, games, and replaced my blown fuse with fresh solder. Motherboard is in great shape. When I turn on the SNES, the screen goes from blue to black so I know a signal is being sent, but perhaps the 240 output is too low. Is a Framemeister or CRT TV my only option here?
[Try4ce] Most likely your TV simply does not accept 240p. Do you have another console that also outputs 240p to check? Framemeister is now discontinued and has become pretty expensive as a result. The OSSC or RetroTINK-2X Mini might be your best choices for making progress here. However even though those will convert the signal to a higher resolution your TV may understand (and reduce input lag), it's also very possible your TV just is very intolerant of funny signals, in which case it may still not like what the SNES outputs even after being upscaled. But I feel like there RetroTINK-2X Mini, since it comes with an SNES S-video cable, might be the best next step, unless you can get a CRT TV.
@@mylifeingaming Unfortunately not. My Samsung TV has HDMI, Component RGB/Composite YWR, and Coax options, no S-plug but I’m sure I could find an adapter. Hoping either OSSC, Tink, or Rad2X options will work with basic HDMI input to the TV. I may try for a cheap CRT just to rule it out though.
Unfortunately, I don't even need this to notice some of the issues my CRT has. I got it at a Goodwill because it was a tube tv (curved screen) for light gun games, and because it has an s-video input. It has two issues, and that's a bit of color bleeding, mostly in the color red, and asymmetry, most easily seen when using the GBA Player on the Gamecube. I eagerly await your video on how to help that, since I don't see anything in that tv's menu to fix it.
ShogunGin0 [Coury] We'll eventually get into that when we cover CRTs and PVMs, etc. The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people. If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
[Try4ce] No, but there are calibration DVDs and Blu-rays you can buy online with test patterns and stuff. The 240p Test Suite is useful for calibrating for video games, and determining that the devices and screens are functioning correctly for specific consoles and game resolutions.
maybe i'm late, but i get strange results testing my LCD. tested composite video. In shadow test on 240p mode i get normal shadow effect on light BG (face and white BG on picture, river and clouds on green hill BG), but on dark BG shadow is interlaced (hair on pic, sky on green hill BG). I'm a bit confused
480i, 480p and 576p are available in the consoles that support them on their respective 240p Test Suites. Regarding 720p and 1080p they are less useful, since video calibration discs are enough. But if the suite is ever ported to a console with HD support, they'd obviously be there.. but those consoles don't support proper 240p in general.
Kinda dumb question but gonna ask anyway :) Can you run the test suite on an emulator if you don't own a flashcart and hook your tv via a composite cable?
+Mat Ve [Try4ce] Not sure how accurate your results would be in terms of color. If you're interested in color calibration, you can use other test patterns on your computer or DVD, player, though. As for 240p itself though, getting 240p out of a PC is a huuuuge hassle. Coury has investigated how to do so, and is interested in trying it, but it's very obscure. So unfortunately, if you're using an emulator, you're actually going to be looking at 480i on your TV via your composite cable.
I sure could use that upcoming episode for adjusting the geometry of my CRT.
2020 and it's still "upcoming" :-(
It's not out yet? That's why I can't find it :(
I went looking for the same thing. 5 years later...
They said they're going to release a master plan on how to craft your own CRT from scratch using modern techniques.
It's a bit of a process, so the wait will be worth it.
@@jorybeatty1726 Holy cow, that sounds like a painstakingly colossal and brilliant undertaking at the same time.
Gosh. Where was My Life in Gaming 16 years ago when I was first teaching myself about this sort of thing?
In Artemio we trust.
5:40 It's been four years since this video came out. When do you plan on doing the geometry video?
[ Coury ] I'm not sure when it'll happen. I highly recommend the YT channel Retro Tech for tons of CRT and PVM videos that cover the subject pretty thoroughly.
FYI - th-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html
For example, th-cam.com/video/xAbqucrWHjU/w-d-xo.html
I'm personnaly not sure I want to mess THAT much with my CRT TV 😅
I want to hug you guys. You are making the world a better place!
Seriously the best retro focused channel on youtube. So greatly appreciated all your hard work and amazing content.
This is really great! I used it through my super everdrive to help fix some geometry issues with one of my trinitrons. For those who don't know there is a secret service menu you can access on Sony Trinitrons. Have the TV turned off then QUICKLY press "Display" - "5" - "Volume +" then power on.
Do you know how to fix red bleeding using that service menu on the Trinitrons?
I always end up coming back to JunkerHQ. It was one of those sites that let me know when great fan translations would be released
=)
IMO, the Drop Shadow test is the most important tool for identifying how well your TV/scaler handles 240p-specific effects, so kudos for demonstrating how it's supposed to look on one setup and how it fails on another.
Sixfortyfive yes, they were very careful to show real use cases while talking about them. Awesome.
Another great video guys. Btw Linearity test is also very useful on HDTVs and scalers. You can use it to check that the circles are perfectly round (use a tape measure if necessary). Quite often HDTVs squash the Dreamcasts picture in particular and adding a bit of horizontal zoom is necessary for the perfect picture.
You guys make such great content! Looking forward to that geometry episode, as it's something I got issues with currently.
Riverhill [Coury] We'll go deeper into it in the CRT, PVM, etc. episode. Like I said to someone else below:
The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people.
If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
Its worth noting though, as the size of the CRT gets bigger, it gets more and more difficult to get it right. Sometimes impossible. My 27 inch Toshiba flat CRT is what I showed to demonstrate it in this video and thats after tons of tweaking.
Its one of those things that once you notice it, you'll always notice it, even if its minor. Hard to believe that this issue has always been there, but its been practically invisible to our eyes until we spent a bunch of time on a HDTV. Going back you're like "wait, has it always been like this?" Answer: yes.
***** Started to note the difference after getting a 27 inch Sony flat, especially on scrolling backgrounds. It is definitely something that's hard not to pay attention to once you notice it. Guess I'm in for a day of meticulous tweaking once I find the service menu option from a service manual. Thanks for the tips!
Riverhill Just a heads up, you can dramatically improve your CRT's geometry through the service menu HOWEVER it is very very annoying to fix. I am in the process of doing it right now and almost ready to give up. You fix one thing, then you mess up another. I guess it just comes with the nature of those types of screens.
My Life in Gaming Hey Guys ! Any news on the geometry ajustement episode ? I did tried to adjust one on a Sony and no luck couldn't fix it all
It wasn't mentioned in the video, but there is also a PS1 version that can be burned to a CD, but you have to use the "swap trick" to make it work on an unmodified console. Since the PS1 is my only option, I've tested and it does work just fine!
Conratulations to Artemio Urbina...
I've heard of this 240p Test Suite before, it seems to really come in handy to help you configure your display...
And you've used music from Super Turrican in the background! Amazing! I LOVE Super Turrican's OST!
Ruko Michiharu Isn't it Sparkster? It was bothering me and I had to try to figure it out. Super Turrican? No. Rocket Knight? No. Popful Mail? No. Sparkster? Yup. Genesis version... I think.
LaC64 [Coury] I used a Super Turrican track for the grid and scroll test segment and Sparkster for the drop shadow and lag segment.
***** ahhhaaa
Hi guys. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of your videos, and I use them extensively to get the most authentic, highest quality experience from my retro setup. Can't wait for your video discussing CRT geometry, as that's what I'm currently struggling with. Cheers!
Many peolpe doen't know but in Mexico Artemio Urbina is the most respected person and the maximun VG authority there is podcast or youtube videos were you can fou d more about him.
Es una maravilla que esto exista, gracias Artemio.
In the sound test, i've noticed that there is a option: center, left and right channels...you guys should do a video about "sound" on consoles, after finished the video settings! (there is surround on retro consoles? best ways to connect audio on each console, console hardware revisions, crts speakers, pvms, best home theaters and receivers, splitters and switchers interfere?[audio lag], etc). Love you guys!
[Coury] that is something we'll look into. Neither of us are huge audiophiles but I think there are a variety of subjects to get into with it. I'd love to do a video on the Master System FM mod sometime.
Another awesome video, you two. You never cease to enrich me! I tried getting the Wii version of the suite but unfortunately it doesn't work, all I get is a nasty black screen. Maybe it's the recent version of it, who knows? I guess I will have to wait until I get a CD BURNER (Since mine doesn't work) or an everdrive.
The latest Verdon has been on the site for over a year, so it should work alright.
What is the procedure you are following to install it?
Oh wow, didn't expect you to comment :).
Well, I downloaded the zip from the website, copies the stuff from it to the apps folder, went to my homebrew channel and then black screen. I wanted to make sure it wasn't the framemeister's resolution change that is doing it but nope, it went to black regardless if I use it or not.
You are following the correct steps, placing the 240psuite folder inside the apps folder.
I'm guessing you get the application icon and meta data? It should work alright, thought it was *might* be a write protect issue in the sd card.
Do you end up with an xml file in a folder named 240p suite in the root folder of the sd card?
I'm sure I worked on a fail safe for it, but I might have failed to predict your situation.
I am actually using a USB to load it, but I can try it with the SD card. I did copy the meta too, though
Sorry, I find make myself clear. I wondered if the wii showed the data on screen before loading.
The issue might be using an usb drive, I never expected ir to be ran that way. I'm away right now, but can check it out next week. Thanks for letting me know.
Please try running it from the sd card for now.
Thanks! Looking forward to that geometry episode!
My Life in Gaming - are you guys still planning on doing an episode for adjusting the screen geometry for consumer crts? I can't wait if so! Many of us need some guidance as to how to go about doing this correctly. Thanks love the channel :)
KEEVS plz answer mlig
I have always been so happy there is a Wii version, just because the Wii is my goto console for testing a TV at a store or Craigslist.
- Its small and light, making it easy to move around, no discs or moving parts to worry about breaking, and has cables for all types of connections ( S-video cables are uncommon, but easy to find online and useful to have if you wanna test out older screens like a Commodore 1702 with an S-Video to Dual RCA adapter )
These guy's theme song never gets old to me.
Artemio es nuetro pastor. Nada nos faltara
This video was perfect timing (for me), picked up a PS1 from thrift (had Assault Retribution in drive and later found it it was already modded!). Works perfect for this and in it for < $20; Thanks guys!
Awesome, you guys rock! I had no idea this program even existed!?
Un placer colaborar con ustedes chicos.
1:14 What a beautiful man
the background song @ 4:25 made me think of the chorus to cheap trick's surrender
I went down the rabbit hole with retro gaming, that's how I got here.
Great video! Is the CRT Geometry video still something that will come out in the future or is that no longer planned?
Mitsubishi CS-40809. It was so well calibrated in the factory, no real adjustments were needed when I used this suite. Perfect geometry corner to corner, grid, etc.. Literally the only adjustment needed was horizontal position, it was at 20, i put it to 17... that's it. The two blue arrows on the Wii menu should touch the edges of the screen, one was cut off ever so slightly, that fixed it. Colors are perfect, linearity is fine, the grid squares all measure up. You can tell they went the extra mile in calibration when they released these monsters. They had to, for a (priced then) $3500 TV. Now if only I could figure out why there's no sound on one of the speakers.. Couldn't say for sure if both speakers worked when I first found this set, I had only played the NES on it for a long time before moving. On arrival, I decided to dust it out (webs, hair, etc), closed up the chassis and went for SNES and other consoles. Found out only 1 speaker worked. Either a wire is the issue (red and white one inside) or something else.. I hate discharging CRTs this big, I'd hate to have to test/replace an actual speaker and hope it's only the wire.
Dang that is pretty sweet. So it is a CRT that cost $3,500 back in the day? I only have a few small CRT's but also a big 32 inch Sony Trinitron that cost about $800 brand new back in 2006, it still looks very good and both speakers work well (though the treble and bass can't do any higher than I want), but with only a little bit of convergence and some slight geometry issues on the far left edge, for a TV I picked up on the curb this past summer (weighing 160 pounds) it is sweet. Someone had it in their garage for a very long time and I almost didn't take it as it sat outside (no rain for a week luckily) for several days before I managed to get help from a co-worker to load it into my car.. where it sat in the trunk for 1-2 months until I could get help hauling it downstairs
great videos. how do you capture the crt output? a camera aimed at the screen? if so, any special lens?
Another Great and accurate video. I have used this test software several times. Long ago only the Genesis version was available . I had no idea it was available for TB16 and CD based consoles. Will check those out soon.
Artemio me trajo aqui, desde el Score #100
still waiting for the adjusting geometry video
These RGB videos are awesome THANK YOU
Check out this video for some great info on cleaning and calibrating PVMs: th-cam.com/video/yoBqm4ThJxw/w-d-xo.html
Also, if you're looking to pick up a PVM (who isn't?), try checking with any local doctors or hospital staff you know as they may have decommissioned some. The medical versions are great because they will likely have way fewer hours of use than the ones used for surveillance.
Desperately looking forward to the geometry adjustment episode! 😢
[Try4ce] We actually shot a ton of material for this just a few weeks ago with Steve from Retro Tech! th-cam.com/channels/wOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw.html I can't say for sure when the episode will materialize, but it's closer than it's ever been!
What a well done video. I've seen a few of mlig vids before. but this closed the deal. You are now about to recieve the honor of lubbnetobbs sub.
I really love your work but I can't seem to find that video you talked about (the one about the crt geometry fix).. Are you planning to release it any time soon or is it a canceled project?
+Tommaso Galdi [Coury] it hasn't happened yet. We keep pushing it back because we want the involvement of tv repair techs. Still happening
My Life in Gaming Oh, thanks for the immediate reply! I'll be sure to check it out when it's done! :)
You should be careful when using CD-Rs in the Dreamcast. The laser assembly in the console is meant to read GD-ROMs (Gigabyte Disc, a format developed specifically for the Dreamcast as an alternative to DVDs). The laser breaks down when trying to read burned CDs, and your console will eventually be unable to read any discs. I am by no means an expert on the Dreamcast laser assembly, but I would believe that there's a difference between using a CD-R as a boot disc (where it reads it for a couple rotations and then you put a GD-R in) and using a CD-R to run a game or program. The application of using 240p Test Suite sounds like it would read the disc a lot, so if you're planning on making the Dreamcast your platform of choice to run the 240p Test Suite on, I would be careful how often you use it.
From what I understand since its a program made for the mil cd format it would probably be fine. Those issues mainly are from gd rom games being compressed to mil cd and stressing the laser more since the games where never intended to be played though a cd let alone being compressed that much to fit on a cd.
¡Venga Artemio!, muchas felicidades, viva México.
Alright, Urbina told me "I have EXCELLENT reflexes" after I ran my manual lag test on my 1chip RGB Snes! Plus, OSSC is amazing!
keep in mind that is not a reliable lag test =)
@@ArtemioUrbina NOOOOO, my 15 minutes of confidence have been crushed by the man!!! LOL Thanks for all your hard work with programs you give us AU! I don't really follow any forums so I'm in the dark, but is there any chance of a Sega Saturn suite ISO down the road?
I have an 80" Sharp LC-80LE642 HDTV, and I'm definitely in the camp where the composite/component inputs have significantly less input lag than my HDMI inputs. Utilizing the manual lag option within the test suite, I was getting around a 30-40ms delay on the analog connections whereas it jumped up to 100+ ms on HDMI. Very strange, as you would think a digital connection would reduce lag as there's no analog-to-digital conversion and/or upscaling.
At any rate, my classic consoles are all hooked up via S-Video to a CRT Sony Wega KV-32FS100. There's no input lag there and the picture looks great, except for some moderate horizontal linearity issues. Unfortunately, my model doesn't appear to have an "HLIN" setting (or something similar) in the service menu, so I may not be able to fix this outside of getting another TV.
6:00; can I get a link to that incredibly rendition of the Sparkster Lakeside Theme that you are playing in the background? It’s really good!
I had to look up the game you were referring to, but I think it's just the Genesis version of the composition. The situation of Sparkster on Genesis and the game on SNES being unrelated games that happen to share the same soundtrack is interesting, to say the least.
I finally got a CRT I’m happy with and this test suite was one of the first things I ran on it. It did great, except some geometry I need to fix.
What "upcoming episode" talks about adjusting TV geometry?
Is 5:30 an example of how it should look like or how it shouldn't look like? Just want to be sure.
Thank you :) I saw another youtuber demonstrate the Framemeister with this and i wondered what program he used. Now i know ^^,
this is great. I'm honestly more concerned about lag than pristine video quality, but only have inexpensive 720p TVs in the house. never noticed lag, so I could use a program like this to double-check before getting a scaler. I'm keeping an eye on HD Retrovision for more YPbPr cables.
You guys still planning to do that episode on safely adjusting CRT geometry?
David C I think the problem is that it’s not something that can be done safely. You could adjust a couple of things in a secret service menu but to get to the real issues you’d probably have to adjust the yoke of the tv and that can be extremely dangerous because it carries enough voltage to kill you. Not to mention a plethora of other things that could have gone wrong over a long period of time that the tv was just sitting there or moved around or dropped. To put it simply there’s probably no safe fixing the geometry of a crt :( I imagine that’s why they don’t release a video because they don’t wanna be held responsible for someone potentially dying because they told them what they could do to get a better picture for an old tech that only knowledgeable technicians could do. Which there don’t seem to be any. A shame really :(
Now do a video on optimizing my Sony Trinitron 32 inch RetroTV with the 240p Test Suite. Also need that episode for the adjusting of geometry for my CRT.
could you please add cc or subtitles? its not available at this moment. thanks when you do
It’s unknown when that episode will come out.
Has the CRT Geometry Episode happened yet? I just scored a nice Sony Trinitron Wega that could use some touching up with the geometry and would like to know how to do it safely.
Great stuff guys - excellent and informative video as always and I'm going to go and burn a copy of this for all my systems and get checking!! I use a CRT for my megadrive,snes,duo and jamma and a Philips HD for everything else so i'll be interested to see the results....
Silly question, but if I have two CRTs that I play Sega and SNES on respectively, can I get away with calibrating both of them with only a Sega 240p Test Suite (using my Mega Drive for both), or is it ideal to use the specific console you are intending to use the CRT for. Just looking if I can save having to buy a Sega cartridge as well as a SNES cartridge. Thanks!
[Try4ce] Generally, using just one to calibrate a setting that would be nice between most retro consoles would be enough, but if you're really looking to get super super specific to the characteristics of each system, they do vary a bit.
Hello, I just bought a 34-inch CRT brand Samsung Tantus CL-34Z7HE is HDTV. I notice immediately that it looks better than a crt SD tv, however the image is not very clean, it is noticeable as noise and the edges of the letters have greenish on one side and red as a chromatic aberration. Do you know if it can be fixed with a service and how much would it cost?
I really doubt that's it´s definitive image.
I can't wait for the future episode on CRT geometry settings. My sony trinitron I use for 240p gaming is a little off. I am currently playing through FF3 (aka ff6) on my snes and the character walk speed makes it extremely noticeable lol. I still consider it better than the HDTV's I own since they handle 240p terribly. You pretty much nailed it with the numbered framing test...I'm getting a large amount of dropped frames lol. Maybe I should invest in the framemeister.
[Try4ce] Maybe I should try fixing my HD Trinitron geometry as part of that episode. I don't use it much anymore, but yeah, 2D games, especially platformers I think, make a ribbon wave as the screen scrolls... I sorta retrained my eye to ignore it when it was my main TV.
+My Life in Gaming That would be incredibly helpful! I am currently in the service menu adjusting some settings, but the definitions of what each setting is doing is a little hard to understand. I'm also debating trying to use a voltage regulating power strip. As a musician I know tubes are greatly affected by the input voltage. You'd be surprised at what a difference 118 vs 125 makes in a guitar amp. I'm willing to bet it affects CRT displays too.
4:09 Funny thing is the JVC I'Art AV32 at my grandma's house has over 640 pixels wide in space and displays the whole image, and a lot of CRTs display many of the red squares on the left and right.
Wait, 720x240? Isn't that twice the resolution of the retro consoles? What does that mean for digital processing on 240p compatible scalers? Is that a bad thing?
+Max Caulfield [Try4ce] 240 is the vertical resolution. The 720 thing is a bit harder to explain, but basically the horizontal resolution is scaleable. 720 is multiplied by 0.9 to shrink to a 4:3 aspect... or multiplied by 1.2 to fill a 16:9 aspect. Modern video uses square pixels, but back in the day, it was all about horizontal stretching to give the proper proportion. 720 without stretching would never result in a correct aspect ratio by itself. It is always intended to be squished or stretched by the display (which scalers would also do). Even though the internal resolution of the system may be something like 320x240, the output conforms to a standard that's 720 wide (but still only 240 tall). This isn't my strongest subject, but hopefully that explains it well enough!
Does it cost £2.40?
always a great video!
Bro, what is that song at 8:20? Its baller
you guys list your theme song but not the other awesome music in this video :( Makes me sad when it isn't in the description. I know this was 8 years ago but pleeease
[Try4ce] Watch a few seconds longer and the game music gets credited too! It's from Sparkster (a.k.a Rocket Knight Adventures 2, Genesis version).
great video please spanish subtitles ,maybe help a lot of more people outthere specially artemio's mexicans fan base
+dcmasteroftimes [Try4ce] This is something we're actually working on getting done! :)
+dcmasteroftimes That's my bad, I haven't finished that yet. I'm sorry.
I've been trying to get the 240p Test Suite working on my Gamecube, but it just won't load.
I've got an ntsc Gamecube, I am trying to load the test suite dol using the SD loader software.
The gamecube is connected to an LG hdtv with component cables.
Nothing happens when I load it using just the SD loader software and when I try it with Swiss it gets stuck loading at 98%.
Any advice what I can do or should look for?
Okay, I found out that this seems to be an issue with version 1.9 of the test suite. I tried version 1.8, and that one seems to work.
Artemio u r the bestt!!! ahuevo!!
Hi. I need to adjust the geometry of a CRT monitor with VGA adapter that connected to a PC. I don`t have a console like PS1 PS2 etc.
Is there a way to run 240p Test Suite without a console?
The framemeister creates a noisy color signal on dark blue patterns. Emulator image is superior and 100% clean. It's got tons of other neat features from filters to quicksave. On my 1ms monitor I barely notice any lag at all. Literally the only thing that's better with the framemeister is 100% smooth scrolling which is neat but not neccessary and the SNES accuracy emulator is pretty damn well optimized now. I own the framemeister and I have a few consoles that I modded myself so I know what I'm talking about. If you own a 1ms monitor and have a fast processor - go with emulation all the way. I just like to own these consoles to have an option. Retroarch rules. It's just funny to read how anal people get about the framemeister when nothing you do can compare to a clean emulator image anyways. This is a fact! BUT...I also enjoy the smooth image scrolling that my original consoles gives me. It's nice to have options.
First, I agree with all of this. Second, I have a 720p native sony lcd tv and there's definately lag. It's not much and I haven't tested it but with all filters and functions off and game mode on there's still a few frames of lag. I play on my 1ms pc monitor though so ...I keep the tv for my wii-u.
www.sony.co.uk/support/en/product/kdl-32d3000 this is mine
Does somebody know how to run this test suite on a ps2?
Please talk about SONY PVMs when you do the geometry video. I have a pvm-20L5 and I started messing with the geometry/color, but I still need help!
Was there ever a video about about TV/CRT geometry adjustments? I can't seem to find it, and I don't think it was covered in the CRT/PVM episode...
[Try4ce] Not yet, we promised this far too long ago. But early this year we actually had the chance to shoot Steve from the channel Retro Tech working on some CRTs, and that will become the geometry episode sometime!
The 240p Test Suite hasn't been ported to 3DO yet so I put together a simple version of one... for basic CRT and upscaler calibration
Is that the Toshiba 27af45 (or another size series) how was the geometry on it ?
The problem I have is my HDTV having too high brightness levels that can't be controlled with my remote. I need to find out why that's happening.
Thank you, this is really helpful! ^_^
Great work guys, as always. Any update on the geometry vid? Can you include how to adjust it on some popular Sony PVM CRTs/
Out of curiosity was the topic of adjusting geometry ever covered in one of the MLiG videos?
[Try4ce] Not yet, but it's a high priority. We're trying to work with professional CRT techs on the episode, but making that happen has taken some time. We definitely don't want to put out bad information on the subject!
Is there a Sega Saturn equivalent of the 240p Test Suite? They have it for every system but the Saturn.
Anyone know how the menu responds to user-interface specifically? Like running from a DVD player without a remote, would track forward/backward and play/stop be enough?
Do you need an action replay disc on the gamecube version to run the test suite?
Does that Gamecube have a replacement top shell? Is it one of those shells designed to allow the use of full size DVD-Rs?
[Try4ce] Nah Coury just has a custom paint job on it.
+My Life in Gaming oh, nice!
I recognized some Super Turrican music in there. ;-)
Here in Mexico Artemio is some sort of God among mexican gamers :)
Where can I find that arrange version of "Turrican III - Second floor" from minute 3:00 ?
7:59-8:30 Hey, what song is that? I really like it.
Is there a way to test it with Sega Saturn at all? I’m using component wires to my console ... North American model 2
Super. Thanks
so if i find a more modern crt (with flat screen) that actually does have an rgb scart port its still likely that ill have to adjust the screen geometry right?
if I plug only the blue plug of my wii component cable, will this give me a "blue only mode" just so i can calibrate my crt tv saturation with this tool?
I can't get my SNES to display audio or video on my Samsung 1080p HDTV and it is driving me nuts. Tried RF (ch 3 or 4) and AV composite (yellow-red-white). I cleaned pin connectors, games, and replaced my blown fuse with fresh solder. Motherboard is in great shape. When I turn on the SNES, the screen goes from blue to black so I know a signal is being sent, but perhaps the 240 output is too low. Is a Framemeister or CRT TV my only option here?
[Try4ce] Most likely your TV simply does not accept 240p. Do you have another console that also outputs 240p to check? Framemeister is now discontinued and has become pretty expensive as a result. The OSSC or RetroTINK-2X Mini might be your best choices for making progress here. However even though those will convert the signal to a higher resolution your TV may understand (and reduce input lag), it's also very possible your TV just is very intolerant of funny signals, in which case it may still not like what the SNES outputs even after being upscaled. But I feel like there RetroTINK-2X Mini, since it comes with an SNES S-video cable, might be the best next step, unless you can get a CRT TV.
@@mylifeingaming Unfortunately not. My Samsung TV has HDMI, Component RGB/Composite YWR, and Coax options, no S-plug but I’m sure I could find an adapter. Hoping either OSSC, Tink, or Rad2X options will work with basic HDMI input to the TV. I may try for a cheap CRT just to rule it out though.
Sparkster music at 5:53 oh yeah!
Unfortunately, I don't even need this to notice some of the issues my CRT has. I got it at a Goodwill because it was a tube tv (curved screen) for light gun games, and because it has an s-video input. It has two issues, and that's a bit of color bleeding, mostly in the color red, and asymmetry, most easily seen when using the GBA Player on the Gamecube. I eagerly await your video on how to help that, since I don't see anything in that tv's menu to fix it.
ShogunGin0 [Coury] We'll eventually get into that when we cover CRTs and PVMs, etc. The way to adjust this is using the service menu, which is a hidden menu in the TV. Each make has a different way of accessing it. Its a very, very touchy thing though, since you can mess up your TV with it. Its meant for professional repair people.
If you do decide to look into this and figure out how to access it, make sure you take note of the values of every entry before you start to tweak, so you can start over if you want. Its very possible to make it worse then not be able to get back to where you started, since there is no factory resets on consumer TVs.
Is there a DVD player version where we can simply burn the image of this in a CD and work in a DVD player?
[Try4ce] No, but there are calibration DVDs and Blu-rays you can buy online with test patterns and stuff. The 240p Test Suite is useful for calibrating for video games, and determining that the devices and screens are functioning correctly for specific consoles and game resolutions.
maybe i'm late, but i get strange results testing my LCD. tested composite video. In shadow test on 240p mode i get normal shadow effect on light BG (face and white BG on picture, river and clouds on green hill BG), but on dark BG shadow is interlaced (hair on pic, sky on green hill BG). I'm a bit confused
Where's the 480i, 480p 576p, 720p and 1080p test suite?
480i, 480p and 576p are available in the consoles that support them on their respective 240p Test Suites.
Regarding 720p and 1080p they are less useful, since video calibration discs are enough. But if the suite is ever ported to a console with HD support, they'd obviously be there.. but those consoles don't support proper 240p in general.
yeah, i know. It was just something like a joke.
The only alternative we need would be 288p, had it historically been made. But they squished the image instead.
can't I or isn't there an option to plug the program into my USB plugged in and then run my game system?
Would it make sense to test with this my RetroPie/Raspberry Pi 3 hooked up to 480p HDMI to VGA CRT pc monitor?
I don't know if this is a good setup.
Kinda dumb question but gonna ask anyway :)
Can you run the test suite on an emulator if you don't own a flashcart and hook your tv via a composite cable?
+Mat Ve [Try4ce] Not sure how accurate your results would be in terms of color. If you're interested in color calibration, you can use other test patterns on your computer or DVD, player, though. As for 240p itself though, getting 240p out of a PC is a huuuuge hassle. Coury has investigated how to do so, and is interested in trying it, but it's very obscure. So unfortunately, if you're using an emulator, you're actually going to be looking at 480i on your TV via your composite cable.