I'd like to see this concept done in reverse too: Insanely bad moves on good characters. Like characters who are top tier despite having some piece of their kit that is so bad you'd almost never press it intentionally.
There's quite a few MK characters over the years where, in a vacuum when you look at their tools, they sound good if not great. But then you realize how insane every character is and those tools aren't enough to even be good. MK9 Scorpion is an example I think of. On paper, he has: - high-low 50/50s that you can either go for the the safe(r) enders that won't net much damage but are safe. Or commit and get a full combo - pretty good damage, especially in the corner, making his 50/50s even deadlier - a teleport to beat projectiles (a tool he's always had), also great for air-to-air conversions - EX teleport is plus on block (+10 iirc) - pretty good stagger pressure - low Takedown is completely safe on block - easy ability to restand (which is extra beneficial in MK9 due to moves having invincibility only on knockdown) - EX unblockable Hellfire can be guaranteed if you want to go for it - an air throw, pretty uncommon in MK9 - EX Spear had armor iirc, a high-risk/high-reward armored move Yet he's a low tier character in MK9. Too many weaknesses with bad MUs and these good tools weren't enough to make up for them.
I am so happy to see people finally acknowledge how bad Havik is right now in MK1, as a Havik main there is just not much Havik can do that another character does much better
There’s like 50 Mortal Kombat characters. Chill. These guys are smartly running a Mortal Kombat centric TH-cam channel. they’re not gonna hit us with everything at once. Theyll run out of content lol. they know what they’re doing. let them cook.
@@Number9Robotic I wasn’t even being argumentative 💀💀 Just trying to approach it using a little bit of critical thinking skills. Wish more social media commenters would do the same lol
@@chiarosuburekeni9325not rly being argumentative, but just unnecessarily dismissive. K&M have listened to comment outcry for the next/future Comp History character(s) before, and they're commenting off of his own words that Nightwolf hasn't shown up much, saying that'd be interesting compared to a more common high tier character we have heard about often but haven't had an episode on yet.
This video's the equivalent of a day 1 character reaction being "Quan Chi is S tier, look at all this broken stuff he can do" then 2 days later someone who actually practiced in online matches says "yes, but all you have to do is stand 4 and iit's null and void."
You know, the more I look back at MK9, watching combo videos, and just the gameplay in general - the more I get that 'Wow, this game aged so well!' kinda feeling just by admiring the sheer brilliance of its visual presentation. The character designs are crisp & detailed, but not to the point of overabundance of said details; the arenas are beautiful, yet they don't distract from the fighters; nothing is standing out too much, everything feels both practical and well-grounded, and still quite pretty technically. The game's visuals surely are simplistic compared to the follow-up releases, but to me that's exactly the case of less is more, or how visuals being simple is not a bad thing at all, on the contrary they end up being better, and more 'effective' in general. There is no visual noise, the animations and special moves are extremely well-telegraphed & easy to follow. I find it both intriguing and also shocking tbh. The game's art style was never striving for photorealism, opting for more cartoonish presentation instead. Yet that simplicity said visual style brought alongside served up well in terms of both first-hand gameplay & spectator/casual viewer experience. That being said, the spectacle is just superb here. Again, the animation work stood the test of time, and did it in an excellet way, if you ask me. Sure, some hitboxes appear odd as if characters were punching air and somehow still get their hits registered, but those moments are scarce and unobtrusive, so they don't ruin the flow of the combat. And the combat flows surprisingly smooth in MK9, indeed.
Funnily enough, the more modern games. MK11/MK1 are genuinely the hardest games to find game breaking stuff with characters. Every time I make a video about "broken this, busted that", the later games are harder to find a clear example compared to the originals.
@@PNDKM I figured. MK11 seemed like they were trying to make it more tame. I suppose things are more balanced that way, but I just love how stupid things could get in older fighting games.
As a havok main yes, he sucks and his b2.2 command grab (or it could be his roll grab i dont remember which one does it) doesn't work on kenshi as if he has sento out the grab doesn't make sento go away so i get punished for hitting kenshi. Nerf kenshi and buff havok
I love this channel but the intro made me wonder. If this is ketchup, I've never heard mustard at all despite them being referred to here and there. Still one of my favorite MK channels
Mustard does the occasional vid on this channel, but he's fulltime with twitch and live streaming. Feels weird not mentioning us both when the content is a joint effort. Fun fact: It was Mustard that suggested this video idea to me.
As a day 1 Havik everyone was calling him broke at the start & I just knew he was bottom tier or mid tier because his buttons really aren’t that amazing, the scaling & cost of unblockable is ridiculous, his zoning is super slow & Khameleon doesn’t even let him do the Kitana stuff other people are doing. I really hope Havik gets some buffs in this Peacemaker patch. I love playing him but he has quite a few problems.
Little mac in smash, having the absolute best smashes in the game, a 100% unrivaled close combat power, an outright instakill, and still being bottom tier: i relate to this.
Hey, just stumbled upon your channel and i like the content as im a very casual fan of mortal kombat but i would like to say the terminology goes completely over my head. It would be nice if you could elaborate a little more sometimes because i have no clue what a 2 1 2 or a 50/50 means😂
I'll have a think of easy ways i can mention the terms on some of these vids. 1/2/3/4 is the attack buttons, it's a universal way of explaining moves regardless of console. a 50/50 is a guess between two options. Most commonly in MK, the 50/50 is between overhead and low.
As a Havik main, I find his place on this list understandable. When faces against any top meta unit, he’s easy to pressure against and has a lot of unsafe moves without a kameo to cover for him
Don't forget haviks biggest weakness his b22 command grab doesn't work on kenshi if he has sento out. Iv lost so many games bc of that i hope it gets fixed Wednesday 😞
Comparing Havik to bottom tiers in 3D MK and before is so wild to me. Like the way games are balanced now he's not nearly bad enough not to use if you don't want to.
This reminds me of Hugo from street fighter 2nd impact who has a infinite but only in the corner but why he’s so weak is because hyper mobile characters out right just beat him and parry isn’t what it is in 3rd strike and there are many other infinites are just better
Who am I to question you gentlemen, but to call Havik a bottom tier character despite the quantity of Haviks we've seen in tournaments is surprising. I have to respectfully disagree. He has a limited toolkit, but Bottom 10? Definitely. Bottom 5? Would require an argument.
Oh that's interesting. I think Nightwolf's "Val Tudo" stance is a typo or otherwise product of the time. It should be Vale Tudo, a Portuguese phrase that came to mean No Holds Barred fighting in the United States. Vale Tudo came to prominence because of the Gracie family of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighters wanting to prove to the world that BJJ was the best form of fighting. I don't think Vale Tudo itself was exactly a fighting style, but more a philosophy of fighting. I could be 100% wrong though, please correct me if you know better.
These videos, as fun as they are, make me hate mortal kombat more and more. This video in particular was nice. It's nice that a bottom tier has a powerful tool. But the annoying thing is that the tool, is only good because of MK jank. *MRgstarsigh* Mortal Kombat, never change.
As a Havik main, I don't think his unblockable is even that good to be honest, because of it costing 2 bars. I know that if it didn't cost 2 bars, it would be busted, but at the same time, 2 bars is a lot of resources to spend on something that most of the time isn't guaranteed unless you have someone like Striker, considering the opponent can just armor out of it and its extremely situational. I often just never use it and instead use bars mainly for torso spin's enhanced damage at the end of combos, or setups with bf3.
A little surprised at the lack of mention of MK9 Sheeva. Particularly, her D+3, her grab that was a block infinite if you didn't duck it, and her low grab which would lead to ~50% meterless damage.
I actually used stryker vs kabal as well, because one nomad dash is DEATH. I usually see him on the lower end of mid, which in UMK3 isn't that great IMO. the divide between top and bottom is pretty severe.
Well tomorrow is the new MK1 patch, let's see what's gonna happen with Havik, also I'm not worried about him because NRS/WB always do excellent job with the balancing of their games.
Soundtrack is from King of Fighters 13!
Good taste
Top tier OST selection as always
Recognised it. Didn't play it much but that piece of music was so good
Good taste my dude.
I always recognized it in a couple previous videos. I wonder if you ever wanted to try KOF XIII but never had the chance to?
13:07 I love how there's just a dead Ermac on the floor
Ermac thinks he's Walter White lmfao
How does this happen?
@@theocanonoy8691 it happends in either endurence fights or 2v2s
It's John Deadcorn.
Ermac died of boredom from Stryker's lack of run jabs
I hope to see competitive history of Shang Tsung some day
Me too
yea. KETCHUP, and MUSTARD cough cough
I want to see the competitive history of Johnny Cage as well as that
I'm still waiting for the MK II Meta video
NEVER
I'd like to see this concept done in reverse too: Insanely bad moves on good characters.
Like characters who are top tier despite having some piece of their kit that is so bad you'd almost never press it intentionally.
There's actually a lot of those!
MKDA Hsu Hao has that amazing air stomp, right? That could on the list @@PNDKM
One of MKX Predator's variants was extremely powerful that pretty much the only move there considered bad was a slow heal
The American way
Cassie Cage’s flip-shot from MK 11 is a great example of this. Doing it by accident is really annoying.
There's quite a few MK characters over the years where, in a vacuum when you look at their tools, they sound good if not great. But then you realize how insane every character is and those tools aren't enough to even be good. MK9 Scorpion is an example I think of.
On paper, he has:
- high-low 50/50s that you can either go for the the safe(r) enders that won't net much damage but are safe. Or commit and get a full combo
- pretty good damage, especially in the corner, making his 50/50s even deadlier
- a teleport to beat projectiles (a tool he's always had), also great for air-to-air conversions
- EX teleport is plus on block (+10 iirc)
- pretty good stagger pressure
- low Takedown is completely safe on block
- easy ability to restand (which is extra beneficial in MK9 due to moves having invincibility only on knockdown)
- EX unblockable Hellfire can be guaranteed if you want to go for it
- an air throw, pretty uncommon in MK9
- EX Spear had armor iirc, a high-risk/high-reward armored move
Yet he's a low tier character in MK9. Too many weaknesses with bad MUs and these good tools weren't enough to make up for them.
To be fair Scorpion was probably the better of the low-tiers. Some people even say he went 5-5 with Smoke, who was a sleeper Top 10.
Has nothing to do, but, who is the character in you pfp ashenxenos3135?
@@leonardobolivar4403 Vladilena “Lena” Milize from 86. An anime/LN series.
I am so happy to see people finally acknowledge how bad Havik is right now in MK1, as a Havik main there is just not much Havik can do that another character does much better
the fact you can punish his B221+3 on hit currently is the biggest issue that makes him that low right now for me.
Nightwolf really hasn't been seen here much. Competitive History of Nightwolf when?
There’s like 50 Mortal Kombat characters. Chill. These guys are smartly running a Mortal Kombat centric TH-cam channel. they’re not gonna hit us with everything at once. Theyll run out of content lol. they know what they’re doing. let them cook.
@@chiarosuburekeni9325 ???they weren't even rude about it lol calm down
@@Number9Robotic I wasn’t even being argumentative 💀💀
Just trying to approach it using a little bit of critical thinking skills. Wish more social media commenters would do the same lol
@@chiarosuburekeni9325not rly being argumentative, but just unnecessarily dismissive. K&M have listened to comment outcry for the next/future Comp History character(s) before, and they're commenting off of his own words that Nightwolf hasn't shown up much, saying that'd be interesting compared to a more common high tier character we have heard about often but haven't had an episode on yet.
I’ve mained night wolf on mk11 and hit elder god
As someone who loves the MK games but doesn't understand any of the technical and tier stuff I love these video's.
For me, UMK3 Stryker is even more the definition of this video's topic than Quan is and I was *anticipating* hearing about him.
How broken was his tool
This video's the equivalent of a day 1 character reaction being "Quan Chi is S tier, look at all this broken stuff he can do" then 2 days later someone who actually practiced in online matches says "yes, but all you have to do is stand 4 and iit's null and void."
You know, the more I look back at MK9, watching combo videos, and just the gameplay in general - the more I get that 'Wow, this game aged so well!' kinda feeling just by admiring the sheer brilliance of its visual presentation. The character designs are crisp & detailed, but not to the point of overabundance of said details; the arenas are beautiful, yet they don't distract from the fighters; nothing is standing out too much, everything feels both practical and well-grounded, and still quite pretty technically. The game's visuals surely are simplistic compared to the follow-up releases, but to me that's exactly the case of less is more, or how visuals being simple is not a bad thing at all, on the contrary they end up being better, and more 'effective' in general.
There is no visual noise, the animations and special moves are extremely well-telegraphed & easy to follow. I find it both intriguing and also shocking tbh. The game's art style was never striving for photorealism, opting for more cartoonish presentation instead. Yet that simplicity said visual style brought alongside served up well in terms of both first-hand gameplay & spectator/casual viewer experience. That being said, the spectacle is just superb here.
Again, the animation work stood the test of time, and did it in an excellet way, if you ask me. Sure, some hitboxes appear odd as if characters were punching air and somehow still get their hits registered, but those moments are scarce and unobtrusive, so they don't ruin the flow of the combat. And the combat flows surprisingly smooth in MK9, indeed.
Completely agree
Since Dairou is Havik now…we need a Dairou Havik skin or MKA Alt Havik Skin👌
Mustard a week ago: “weird how Quan’s rune trap is like broken but not good… wait that’s a video”
I'd love to see the competitive history of Sub-Zero! A huge undertaking but I love a mega video
I would like for you to explain the differences between stances in MKDA and MKD
The tekken version of this would be hilarious
Is there a single MK game that isn't busted? Don't get me wrong though, I love it.
Funnily enough, the more modern games. MK11/MK1 are genuinely the hardest games to find game breaking stuff with characters. Every time I make a video about "broken this, busted that", the later games are harder to find a clear example compared to the originals.
@@PNDKM I figured. MK11 seemed like they were trying to make it more tame. I suppose things are more balanced that way, but I just love how stupid things could get in older fighting games.
As a havok main yes, he sucks and his b2.2 command grab (or it could be his roll grab i dont remember which one does it) doesn't work on kenshi as if he has sento out the grab doesn't make sento go away so i get punished for hitting kenshi. Nerf kenshi and buff havok
Armageddon is my favorite and I love how to be top tier the character has to be incredibly broken lol!
I love this channel but the intro made me wonder. If this is ketchup, I've never heard mustard at all despite them being referred to here and there.
Still one of my favorite MK channels
Mustard does the occasional vid on this channel, but he's fulltime with twitch and live streaming. Feels weird not mentioning us both when the content is a joint effort.
Fun fact: It was Mustard that suggested this video idea to me.
Havik is for sure not bad in MK1.
As a day 1 Havik everyone was calling him broke at the start & I just knew he was bottom tier or mid tier because his buttons really aren’t that amazing, the scaling & cost of unblockable is ridiculous, his zoning is super slow & Khameleon doesn’t even let him do the Kitana stuff other people are doing. I really hope Havik gets some buffs in this Peacemaker patch. I love playing him but he has quite a few problems.
I wanted to main him but I changed idea really quickly, sadly he is really bad
Little mac in smash, having the absolute best smashes in the game, a 100% unrivaled close combat power, an outright instakill, and still being bottom tier: i relate to this.
As it turns out, having a terrible air game in an air-focused fighting game is not good
Could you do a Shujinko competitive breakdown??
Hey, just stumbled upon your channel and i like the content as im a very casual fan of mortal kombat but i would like to say the terminology goes completely over my head. It would be nice if you could elaborate a little more sometimes because i have no clue what a 2 1 2 or a 50/50 means😂
I'll have a think of easy ways i can mention the terms on some of these vids.
1/2/3/4 is the attack buttons, it's a universal way of explaining moves regardless of console. a 50/50 is a guess between two options. Most commonly in MK, the 50/50 is between overhead and low.
forgot about that MK9 stage, That needs an MK1 revisit for being metal AF
Competitive history of sub-zero!
Legit love your videos homie.
Every time I see one of these I smile so big
As a Havik main, I find his place on this list understandable. When faces against any top meta unit, he’s easy to pressure against and has a lot of unsafe moves without a kameo to cover for him
Don't forget haviks biggest weakness his b22 command grab doesn't work on kenshi if he has sento out. Iv lost so many games bc of that i hope it gets fixed Wednesday 😞
I’d love to see a video about the hardest combos in MK. I know I broke my fingers doing some in MKX lol.
Great idea. My pick would be smoke's 189% reset combo in mk9 - I can't even do the first part of that thing
Who’s bottom 5 in MK1? You mentioned Havik, who else?
My bottom 3 may be havik, nitara and quan right now. Nitara is wild with khameleon but we havent seen enough of it in tournament at the moment.
Totally worth the watch 👍🏾
Comparing Havik to bottom tiers in 3D MK and before is so wild to me. Like the way games are balanced now he's not nearly bad enough not to use if you don't want to.
Okay then, I want you to make a tierlist of how hard the Arcade mode for each character is like?
As someone who plays MK9 without blocking at all, the third choice is hilarious.
Have you considered doing some Tekken 8 content? Would love to see it.
Man how they get these broken moves game developer,s hmmm i don't know about that
This reminds me of Hugo from street fighter 2nd impact who has a infinite but only in the corner but why he’s so weak is because hyper mobile characters out right just beat him and parry isn’t what it is in 3rd strike and there are many other infinites are just better
I really love your videos. You guys always put in the research and your presentation is always topnotch
Weak with broken tools. That is an amazing combo that I kinda want to see more of.
Isn't this called a gimmick character? A character that has a strong gimmick but the gimmick is exactly what it sounds like, a gimmick.
Hol horse from jojo httf has looping unblockable oki setups but can not get there with any consistency.
Great video! I love your content!
the Havik placement here has not aged well and I'm so happy it hasn't
Who am I to question you gentlemen, but to call Havik a bottom tier character despite the quantity of Haviks we've seen in tournaments is surprising. I have to respectfully disagree. He has a limited toolkit, but Bottom 10? Definitely. Bottom 5? Would require an argument.
I have mk1
Oh that's interesting. I think Nightwolf's "Val Tudo" stance is a typo or otherwise product of the time. It should be Vale Tudo, a Portuguese phrase that came to mean No Holds Barred fighting in the United States. Vale Tudo came to prominence because of the Gracie family of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighters wanting to prove to the world that BJJ was the best form of fighting. I don't think Vale Tudo itself was exactly a fighting style, but more a philosophy of fighting. I could be 100% wrong though, please correct me if you know better.
Competitive History with Sonya??
I thought Quan Chi was amazing in IX because the cpu would crush me easily.
From what I know about Deception, you could have put like half the cast on this list
They really height shamed stryker smh
These videos, as fun as they are, make me hate mortal kombat more and more. This video in particular was nice. It's nice that a bottom tier has a powerful tool. But the annoying thing is that the tool, is only good because of MK jank.
*MRgstarsigh* Mortal Kombat, never change.
As a current havik main , the struggle is real...I thought sub-zero was slow🥶🥶🥶 plus it's death by whiff punish and 1000 paper cuts
As a Havik main, I don't think his unblockable is even that good to be honest, because of it costing 2 bars. I know that if it didn't cost 2 bars, it would be busted, but at the same time, 2 bars is a lot of resources to spend on something that most of the time isn't guaranteed unless you have someone like Striker, considering the opponent can just armor out of it and its extremely situational. I often just never use it and instead use bars mainly for torso spin's enhanced damage at the end of combos, or setups with bf3.
A little surprised at the lack of mention of MK9 Sheeva. Particularly, her D+3, her grab that was a block infinite if you didn't duck it, and her low grab which would lead to ~50% meterless damage.
I disagree with Striker being bad in UMK3. He was mid in a lot of tier lists from players. He is quite good against Kabal players.
I actually used stryker vs kabal as well, because one nomad dash is DEATH.
I usually see him on the lower end of mid, which in UMK3 isn't that great IMO. the divide between top and bottom is pretty severe.
Love the kof 13 ost. ❤
UMK3 wins again! Great video as always, dudes.
WHEN IS THE PEACEMAKER VIDEO ALREADY COME ON
Mk1 Johnny Cage crouching light kick is completely invincible btw
Thank you for putting Havik on this list. His b2 should hop over pokes or at least low crush
Ah yes, the sad case of having incredible tools, but no hands to use em.
WHEN IS THE PEACEMAKER VIDEO???????????
April 1st episode has to be competitive history of meat and mokap
Surprised MKDA Cyrax's bombs didn't make the list.
Not good enough IMO, on hit they only led to small damage. He also couldn't move the bombs like in MKA, so they were even harder to hit with.
Where’s the Peacemaker video?
Where’s the Peacemaker video?
As someone who mains Hav… I mean Dairou, just make the bf2 roll a mid plz🫠
Mk1 Johnny's arm break is the exact opposite of this
Well tomorrow is the new MK1 patch, let's see what's gonna happen with Havik, also I'm not worried about him because NRS/WB always do excellent job with the balancing of their games.
BRO WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG??
We had good characters and bad characters, how about average ones
i hit elder god with havik🤗
You should do a “best worst characters of mk”
Stryker's a lil guy
Peacemaker
Take a shot everytime he says broken.
Being Stryker is suffering
Not anymore though, Stryker Kameo in MK1 is one of the best Kameos in the whole game.
Great soundtrack
"We are Ketchup and Mustard"
There are two people running this channel?
Yes, twin brothers who each play the respective cyborg. Ones a Sektor main hence Ketchup the others Cyrax hence Mustard
@@uratheboi1555 I can't tell the difference...
Video
Just hold up to escape rune trap.
If it's timed properly, you can't jump.
Where
Is
I love quan chi in mk9..
And I was unaware of this
Broken butt is bad.
?
Very Niiiice!
Love these kinda videos!
Nightwolf is OG 😅😅😂
The term “Broken” in fighting games has evolved to being a good thing.
This is why I feel we need to do a better job as a community in defining what it means to be broken vs what it means to be busted.
4th
The
Sweet. My suggestion, baby. Told y’all.