Since I love to see the bread rise in real time, I’ve been using Pyrex (both top and bottom) to bake my sourdough, with or without the baking stone, putting in the bread as soon as baking temperature is reached, and getting great oven springs. I think the importance of “preheat 1 hr” and dutch oven are both overhyped. The oven spring (and taste) is more a matter of proper fermentation and shaping of the dough. Thanks for your experimentations!
I use a pyrex-like dish inverted, i.e. the shallow glass cover as the bottom and the deep bowl as the top. I use a piece of baking paper and slide the bread on it into the preheated shallow dish and then cover it. 30 min preheat usually with my oven. No stone or steel, just a wire tray.
@rickloudermilk6351 I have a borosilicate glass Pyrex (made in France). Be careful with the preheat if you have that soda lime glass garbage they use in the US.
Been using a roaster (bottom half) just as in video . A BIG plus with the roaster covering is it is large and a LOT of water spray inside lid before putting in place can create a great steam space.
Thanks Sune. I love this experiment because i have just bought two Pyrex long roasrers so I can do two loaves at a time. They are cheaper than cast iron, don't take much pre heating and of course I can see my bread rising.
This was super useful. I started with Sourdough about 3 months ago and I've been going with minimal equipment, so finding that I can use Pyrex without worries is great.
Minimal equipment? I bake a 2 loaf sourdough recipe, 1/2 cup start, 2 cups water 4 cups bread flour, 1 tsp salt in two 8" diameter, stainless steel, dog bowls + 2 bowls for covers. The 4 bowls cost $10.00 at $Tree.
till now I've used the hot water with open loaf/dough was I do not have a cast iron put or Pyrex but now I've seen enough of with far better method and used the amazon link from our lovley foodgeek ;) Can't wait to see the results and far less steamy.
I just started making sourdough bread, only made two loaves up to now. I've used my pyrex deep dish roaster with lid as my baking vessel, with the lid being the bottom as I don't have a pizza stone. I preheat the whole roaster for about 30 minutes and baked it accordingly. For a beginner sourdough baker like me, this worked really well.
I haven’t baked sourdough yet (will probably start next week) but I have a pizza stone which I highly recommend if you’re going to make pizza anyways. Then at least you’ll get 2 solid uses out of it!
I have baked loaves in a complete Roaster pan with excellent results including a nice ear. I place a cookie sheet on the next rack below it to avoid bottom scorching.
Another excellent video. I've been making sourdough every week for nearly 4 years. Your videos are incredibly helpful. I recently experimented with adding 4 chopped medjool dates (also poppy seeds) to the dough. The rise was amazing. Perhaps the culture was feeding off the added sugar. Flavour was great.
Just a note. That's the bottom of the the enamelled roaster not the lid. Same with the pyrex and dutch oven. All thew were the bottom part tipped upside down to use as a cover. The lid portions would be more shallow and have a handle in the center for lifting off the bottom part vs handles on the ends/sides for lifting the full pan.
Your videos are doing more to advance the craft of home bread baking than pretty much anything else out there right now. I would love to see some experiments with even more dramatic results. For example major differences in proofing time, major differences in bulk fermentation time, or a version of this with no lid at all or other steam techniques (e.g. pan, towels, nothing, etc),
Thank you for doing this experiment! My mother has been interested in getting into baking sourdough, but has had medical problems that involved a bone graft using a bone from her arm. She can't lift heavy things, and so many guides practically demand using cast iron (which is what I use as well, since I already had a cast iron dutch oven). The weight of it was an issue for her, especially while bending over. She didn't want to bother with investing time with the other steps if she couldn't get a good result, so I will definitely let her know about your results!
I use a 26cm Pyrex casserole using its shallow lid as the base which comfortably fits a 1kg dough. It does a great job. The Challenger is too pricey as the alternatives do the same job at a fraction of the cost, and besides, I don't have storage space for it.
Another great video. Gives me confidence when I take my starter on vacation without my normal kitchen tools. And the strat over ur shoulder always makes me swoon
Love your experiment videos, thanks! I use an inexpensive 2.5 liter Corning Ware vessel with a glass top. I can see the progress of the bake during the initial 30 minute covered period. Steam is captured and I get good results. Take off the lid for the final 15-20 minutes.
since I was getting oven spring issues using just steam I purchased an enamel roaster and use the base like a cloche along with my iron baking sheet just like the vid, I dont get anymore dough blowing out the side or uneven cooking now. The Russel Hobs Vitreous 36cm roaster is perfect
Nice experiment! I think what matters the most is the baking steel... Next time you could test different ways to make steam like boiling water in a tray or spray ... It's a suggestion
I use a 15" steel balti I use the lid as the base and the pan part as the lid. When I open the oven I put the balti over the flame for those few seconds to boost/retain the heat. Its a workaround, but it works (The handle of the lid fits snugly between the bars on my oven)
I've a couple of times used Pyrex both to proof and to bake. Oil the bowl, let the dough proof in it, put the lid on then tunr over so the dough releases onto the lid and then bake like that removing the bowl from the lid 1/2 way through.
I always use the pyrex lid, simply because it's the largest thing I have that I can use. Thanks for another great film, Sune BTW: I pre-heat my lid before using it
What I have been doing is putting a large cast iron skillet in the 450 degree oven, put a smaller one with water underneath the rack for steam and after the oven is hot, then I take the dough out of the fridge I put about 10 ice cubes into the pan that's under the rack for more steam, I turn the dough over unto parchment paper, make a slice on top with a razor blade and lift the dough and parchment paper into the hot cast iron skillet, I don't cover it, I leave it in for 40 minutes. and it rises beautifully and I like it better than with a cover on it!
Thanks for another great experiment. Curious if you usually preheat the vessels at all? Does it effect the overall temp & therefore have an effect on the oven spring?
I use two stainless steel steam table pans. The full size pans allows me to put 3 - 9" loaf pans when making sandwich loaves and cover them. I usually add 1/4 cup of water to the bottom for extra steam. Bake at 475F for 40 minutea and then uncovered for another 10 -20 depending on the bread. It also allows me to do longer loaves. For that, i put a metal 1/4 measuring cup of water in one of the corners instead of dumping it on the bottom like I do with loaf pans.
Oh... And I bought 2" deep full size pan for the bottom and a 6" deep full size pan for the top cover. It gives you close to 8" of room. Plenty of room for 2lb or 1KG loaves.
I love your bread baking experiments. They help break down some of the sourdough baking myths. Thanks for making these videos. I always learn something.
You should repeat the no preheating of the oven experiment with the lightweight cover. You used the cast iron with the preheat test which obviously take all heat without preheating leaving the bread cold. The lightweight cover will warm up fast and bake the bread better. As you can see with this experiment the cast iron doesn't do much, so you can still save a lot of energy.
I've been watching your videos for a few months now and I think this is the one I really wanted to see from you! I've been baking in a Le Creuset but I hate that I either have to drop the dough into it or put it on baking paper and lower it in - either way, it affects the shape. Now I'm convinced that my baking steel and Pyrex bowl will work just fine!
Wow, your videos are amazing. Really good decisions on the shoots to learn about the technique and the way the dough is handled. Everything is very clear. Great channel for learning about baking.
I think cast iron is the traditional suggestion because it is known to be safe at high temperatures, whereas not all glassware will be. I don't have a Pyrex bowl but I do have Anchor which based on reviews I see online is suggested to shatter into a thousand itty bitty pieces. I was honestly a bit more surprised to see that none of the vessels were pre-heated: I often heat my cast iron pot along with my baking steel, now I wonder if the idea that an oven spring is encouraged by the heated pot is an actual thing or not. I have a rather small pot, 2 quarts, so at best by breads basically form fit into it so it doesn't seem to negatively impact spring at least.
I would hold my breath when heating Pyrex to 500 deg f. I would have expected it to shatter. Also have to be careful not to bang the oven on the way out. Glass is much less able to absorb impact at those temps. I would stick with metals.
@@jme8112strat I agree. With Pyrex at 500F, any bump might be your last. I also stick to metal. When using Pyrex I just set it into the oven and bake, and carefully let it cool down.
@@jme8112strat Pyrex safe with 600°F as well. I think cast iron is suggested because the basic method is to put the dough INSIDE the bowl, so it can get a high constant heat - but as he said, he used a stone, which is maybe even better - covering metarial will not matter, it's only for keeping the steam inside.
Cheap stainless steel mixing bowls work beautifully and they are lightweight and nest for storage. You can’t beat them. A preheated cast iron skillet works as well as a baking stone under the bowls.
Thank you so much for this very well researched and well presented demonstration. I like many hanker after the perfect loaf. I found this very helpful because of the non-variable comparison. I think I'll have a go with the Pyrex. Kind regards from North Wales UK 😃
Thank you Sune for your valuable input. I am also new to sourdough bread baking and with your experiments you are answering questions I haven't even thought of yet!
Well, another nice video-experiment. Would have loved to see the ovenspring of an uncovered loaf baked with steam, compated to the covered loafs, though.
How do you take into considerations, that the second bread has 40 min. Longer testing time and the 3. Bread 80 min. - beacause they are waiting for the other breads to bake ? Thank you
The loaves are waiting in the fridge after several hours, so there isn't much difference. If the proofing is direct, at room temperature, it is impossible to bake the three loaves at the optimal point of fermentation.
I use an enameled roaster with lid. I just put the loaf on parchment and it's like a cradle lowering it in. I bake my sourdough and yeast bread this way, the only difference being temperature.
Does the pyrex lid sit snug on the steel with no steam escaping? In the video this particular model looks like its slightly elevated at where the handles are, allowing for steam to escape?
Can you please please do another experiment without using the steel as a base but the base of the actual containers ? I transfer the loaf in the baking pot after I turn it over on parchment paper and it’s very easy to lift it with the paper and place it in the pot.
that's how i do it too, difficult to get a steel or stone shipped to my location so am using a lightweight enamel pan and lid. while it's working great, for me as a newbie, i love seeing all the variables
The cast iron lid was preheating in the oven, was already hot when he place the dough in. The glass lid and the roast lid wasn't preheated as the cast iron, so right there you loose lots of oven spring. Not fear! However I love his videos is I being learning a lot. Sube! Tks for the good work, you helping a lot to change the world of grains, flours and do your self for a better place.
Hi Sune, have you tested preheated vs. non-preheated dutch ovens? I have a feeling that the non-preheated oven (with perhaps a few minutes extra first baking time) will give a higher rise because the dough has a longer time to rise before the top crust over. Would be quite interesting to see.
There will be a significant difference as baking the dough directly right on the baking pots vs using them as covers to compare while using the same base material. All three react to heat differently related to temperature and time.
Thanks Sune for this experiment. I have recently started making sourdough bread and use a Pyrex dish as it’s relatively light weight and much cheaper than cast iron, I found it works really well and have been getting better loaves the more I bake. Have you also tried different kneading techniques, I’ve heard of the Rubaud method, stretch and fold, coil method and plain kneading.....which is best? Thanks for all the interesting experiments you have done👍
@@Foodgeek thanks for your reply! I went with a steel pot and it gave me my best bread so far! Har set mange af dine videoer og lært en masse (du er dansker ik?). Tak Sune!
Hi, I have a baking steel griddle for bread or pizzas (40 x 30 cm, 5 mm thick). I'm not sure, but in the video it looks like you have a griddle too, or a baking stone. I think it's a great idea to use the great base heat of the griddle or stone, combined with the pyrex or cast iron dome to keep the steam in. My idea was to buy the pyrex dish, and I would like to know if, when placed on the baking base, it withstands the heat well without breaking. Thank you very much.😊
Thanks, quick reply! I have cast iron Comal, Mexican cast iron griddle but it’s oval. If I used a “pizza stone,” I would heat it up first, but worried it would crack with the weight or if I sprayed water on the dough, it would crack the stone. WHAT KIND OF STEEL PLATE did you use?
Food geek Sune hello good afternoon to you from Canada I do really like what you do and how you go about making many people understand the difference between the vessel to bake off the bread and the way you do tests please keep up all of your great work you are doing from Domenico Monteleone
Was that an IKEA Blanda Blank? I was looking at those myself as it is hopeless to get a dutch oven, or a big enough pot, that is not too high for the oven.
Hey love your videos and great info. I noticed you didn’t spray or use any kind of steaming technique. Does your oven have steam injection or do you not really use steam? The breads look great otherwise.
I might start using a baking stone / steel, since I'd like to make some batard shaped loaves. My Dutch oven can only really handle boules (at the dough weight I'm going with, about 900g). I wonder if there are very large ones that'd fit two loaves. If that was the case, I'd be tempted to cook two at a time, and try to put a large pan over the top to trap steam. Baking the bread is a great and rewarding part of the process, but it's sometimes inconvenient to my day for it to take 3 hours, preheating, doing loaf 1, heating back up, doing loaf 2.
How does the temperature of the dough affect oven spring? Does doing a cold ferment overnight or baking the dough at room temperature lead to better oven spring?
The fridge dries the dough all around, creating a stiffer 'container', still keeping the inside moist, helping to retain the shape and also far easier to score. Just a question how long between fridge and over. Some, take the dough out of fridge and let sit for an hour or two before oven, but I've seen some place it pretty much from fridge to oven with minimal rest time...
I've been successful by using a big disposable aluminum pan. Super light and cheap. There is no point in pre-heating it because it has a pretty low thermal mass. I spray the inside with water before covering the bread, but I'm not sure if that is necessary.
One geek to another. Nice guitars. If you were to make your own music soundtrack with that tasty acoutic guitar with the nice appointments, you could call this "Bread and Jam". Serious question: What do you mean by bulk rise to 25 percent? Is that like one more hour? I ask because I bulk rise for 4-5 hours with stretchnfolds every hour. It seriously gives the loaf a big oven spring.
I start counting after I finish stretch and folds. I let it rise so that it's 25% larger than when it started to a total size of 125% compared to when you start counting 😊
Can you preheat the pyrex without it shattering? Also, how do you manage baking multiple loaves when each requires the temperature to drop at the second stage of baking? Do you just leave the other loaves in the fridge for the extra hour it probably takes to bake one and then raise the temperature back to 500? Does that time make any difference?
Hi. Thanks for the video! However, wouldn't it make more sense to bake in a cast iron combo cooker vs a pyrex dish vs a baking steel+steam, but using both the top and the bottom of the cast iron/pyrex dishes? I am really new to sourdough baking, but from what I have read, the baking surface makes all the difference, since it transfers heat directly to the bread and is one of the main contributors to ovensping.
The baking steel is the best surface for transfer of heat (better than cast iron); so baking directly on the steel with a cover achieves the same effect as using a combo cooker/dutch oven. That being said, use what works best and easiest for you!
@@JohnLockard Here is a good article with some explanations on the difference: slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baking-steel-delivers.html
There should be some heat retention in the pyrex as well - so it could be preheated as the cast iron. but all 3 look great so maybe no need to go down that route :-)
@@flyingozzy that depends in which glass. Original Pyrex is borosilicate and safe go 900F. Later they changed to tempered soda-lime glads which has lower limits. Borosilicate is also use in chemistry labs, over high heat and even direct flame. So a good borosilicate dish (like Anchor) is fine at 500F, just not the current Pyrex brand junk.
@@flyingozzy pyrex bakeware is oven safe to 300C. Its the enamel one that from what I've seen is only oven safe to 230C. Maybe swapping an enamel to a steel roaster would be better (still cheap, though slightly heavier), but then the temp might be to do with the coatings.. so checking is key.
I’m going to try it next with a loaf on my big cast iron pizza pan with a Pyrex casserole dish over it then again with the 2nd loaf on the same pan with a big stainless steel mixing bowel and see how it goes after seeing this. I’m really not wanting stockpiles of ultra expensive cookware in here but still wanting all the great results.
Sune! I have become a big fan of your channel, it seems to answer the questions which no one else can answer! So here is another one for you: Whats the difference, a short bulk ferment and longer proof or long bulk and shorter proof (given the same amount of total time)?
funny Ive been using an enameled oval dutch oven, but I bought this to try out as I use my dutch oven so much to cook with I wanted a cheaper alternative bought it and now seeing this video! I think Ill be alright. Im going to use top and bottom preheater of coarse. I want to get the cast iron bread oven but I think Ill stay with this for a while now that ive seen this I might have a nice alternative for folks who cant spend as much!
I love the results, since I have any number of things I can use - so I’m glad one isn’t necessarily the only “right” utensil! One question: I assume the fact that the last loaf waits a longer time before it gets baked doesn’t make a difference? (It stayed in the fridge, right?)
Is it safe to use the newer generations of Pyrex dishes? I heard that those are made of soda-lime glass instead of borosilicate. The label do say it’s preheated oven safe tho.
Thank you for nice video!! I just have few questions! 1. when you bake, are you using fan forced mode or grill mode?? 2. I don't need to spray water on the surface of bread if I use cast iron?? Thank you!!
always used a pyrex for baking bread, but pre-heated. i am glad to see there is no difference to the cast iron, as this one would be too heavy from my cheap mini oven. yhanks for experimenting it =)
I bought the enameled roaster that you linked at it's way too small. I double checked and the interior height is only 3 inches. Are you sure you don't have a bigger one? I'm pretty disappointed, but I'm still hoping to find another vessel to use as a lid for my baking steel. Unfortunately(?), I have several Le Creuset pots, but their handles curve above the rim of the pot, so they don't work as baking lids.
I think these materials start to matter at a point where your oven might not have enough power, so the thermal storage of the material will make up for the oven being unable to heat back up fast enough. So could be a good experiment with a cheap stand alone oven
I’m new to bread making and never knew about baking steel. What is the oven size percentage as compared to the baking steel size? I found one on line to purchase but the size is my entire rack size from front to back. Is that too big? Or is a smaller size is better so the heat can circulate? Btw your videos are the best I’ve seen. Well done.
@@monicatowns5559 In many ways, the bigger the better, but you also need to consider how long it will take to saturate it with heat. I would recommend one that takes up the entire rack, but is not too think :) Thanks
Since I love to see the bread rise in real time, I’ve been using Pyrex (both top and bottom) to bake my sourdough, with or without the baking stone, putting in the bread as soon as baking temperature is reached, and getting great oven springs. I think the importance of “preheat 1 hr” and dutch oven are both overhyped. The oven spring (and taste) is more a matter of proper fermentation and shaping of the dough. Thanks for your experimentations!
I would love to watch the oven spring with a pryex. Do you know which model you have?
I use a pyrex-like dish inverted, i.e. the shallow glass cover as the bottom and the deep bowl as the top. I use a piece of baking paper and slide the bread on it into the preheated shallow dish and then cover it. 30 min preheat usually with my oven. No stone or steel, just a wire tray.
@@kraklakvakve the bottom deeper pyrex, is that preheated too? thanks.
@rickloudermilk6351 I preheat both to 250 C. Half way I uncover and lower to 210 C (optional)
@rickloudermilk6351 I have a borosilicate glass Pyrex (made in France). Be careful with the preheat if you have that soda lime glass garbage they use in the US.
You have both surprised me, AND saved me from spending a lot of money on a pot just to try bread! Thank you so much!
Been using a roaster (bottom half) just as in video .
A BIG plus with the roaster covering is it is large and a LOT of water spray inside lid before putting in place can create a great steam space.
Thanks Sune. I love this experiment because i have just bought two Pyrex long roasrers so I can do two loaves at a time.
They are cheaper than cast iron, don't take much pre heating and of course I can see my bread rising.
Thank you. I am happy that you've found a way that works for you
This was super useful. I started with Sourdough about 3 months ago and I've been going with minimal equipment, so finding that I can use Pyrex without worries is great.
Minimal equipment? I bake a 2 loaf sourdough recipe, 1/2 cup start, 2 cups water 4 cups bread flour, 1 tsp salt in two 8" diameter, stainless steel, dog bowls + 2 bowls for covers. The 4 bowls cost $10.00 at $Tree.
I love the idea of just setting the loaf on the stone and then placing a cover over it .
I’m like why didn’t I think of that!?!
Exactly!!
Much safer!
What has everyone else been doing?
till now I've used the hot water with open loaf/dough was I do not have a cast iron put or Pyrex but now I've seen enough of with far better method and used the amazon link from our lovley foodgeek ;)
Can't wait to see the results and far less steamy.
At the end the most important thing is to keep the steam inside the pot! Great job as usual!
I just started making sourdough bread, only made two loaves up to now. I've used my pyrex deep dish roaster with lid as my baking vessel, with the lid being the bottom as I don't have a pizza stone. I preheat the whole roaster for about 30 minutes and baked it accordingly. For a beginner sourdough baker like me, this worked really well.
I haven’t baked sourdough yet (will probably start next week) but I have a pizza stone which I highly recommend if you’re going to make pizza anyways. Then at least you’ll get 2 solid uses out of it!
Same as I do, with a stone beneath though.
I have baked loaves in a complete Roaster pan with excellent results including a nice ear.
I place a cookie sheet on the next rack below it to avoid bottom scorching.
Another excellent video. I've been making sourdough every week for nearly 4 years. Your videos are incredibly helpful. I recently experimented with adding 4 chopped medjool dates (also poppy seeds) to the dough. The rise was amazing. Perhaps the culture was feeding off the added sugar. Flavour was great.
Just a note. That's the bottom of the the enamelled roaster not the lid. Same with the pyrex and dutch oven. All thew were the bottom part tipped upside down to use as a cover.
The lid portions would be more shallow and have a handle in the center for lifting off the bottom part vs handles on the ends/sides for lifting the full pan.
Your videos are doing more to advance the craft of home bread baking than pretty much anything else out there right now. I would love to see some experiments with even more dramatic results. For example major differences in proofing time, major differences in bulk fermentation time, or a version of this with no lid at all or other steam techniques (e.g. pan, towels, nothing, etc),
Thank you for doing this experiment! My mother has been interested in getting into baking sourdough, but has had medical problems that involved a bone graft using a bone from her arm. She can't lift heavy things, and so many guides practically demand using cast iron (which is what I use as well, since I already had a cast iron dutch oven). The weight of it was an issue for her, especially while bending over. She didn't want to bother with investing time with the other steps if she couldn't get a good result, so I will definitely let her know about your results!
I use a 26cm Pyrex casserole using its shallow lid as the base which comfortably fits a 1kg dough. It does a great job. The Challenger is too pricey as the alternatives do the same job at a fraction of the cost, and besides, I don't have storage space for it.
Another great video. Gives me confidence when I take my starter on vacation without my normal kitchen tools. And the strat over ur shoulder always makes me swoon
Love your experiment videos, thanks! I use an inexpensive 2.5 liter Corning Ware vessel with a glass top. I can see the progress of the bake during the initial 30 minute covered period. Steam is captured and I get good results. Take off the lid for the final 15-20 minutes.
This video completely changed my practice, ive been struggling to lower bread into a deep cast iron and that will never happen again.
since I was getting oven spring issues using just steam I purchased an enamel roaster and use the base like a cloche along with my iron baking sheet just like the vid, I dont get anymore dough blowing out the side or uneven cooking now. The Russel Hobs Vitreous 36cm roaster is perfect
Nice experiment! I think what matters the most is the baking steel...
Next time you could test different ways to make steam like boiling water in a tray or spray ... It's a suggestion
This info in this video was outstanding! Thanks for sharing your experiment.
I use a 15" steel balti I use the lid as the base and the pan part as the lid. When I open the oven I put the balti over the flame for those few seconds to boost/retain the heat. Its a workaround, but it works (The handle of the lid fits snugly between the bars on my oven)
I've a couple of times used Pyrex both to proof and to bake. Oil the bowl, let the dough proof in it, put the lid on then tunr over so the dough releases onto the lid and then bake like that removing the bowl from the lid 1/2 way through.
I always use the pyrex lid, simply because it's the largest thing I have that I can use. Thanks for another great film, Sune
BTW: I pre-heat my lid before using it
Do you preheat it empty??
What I have been doing is putting a large cast iron skillet in the 450 degree oven, put a smaller one with water underneath the rack for steam and after the oven is hot, then I take the dough out of the fridge I put about 10 ice cubes into the pan that's under the rack for more steam, I turn the dough over unto parchment paper, make a slice on top with a razor blade and lift the dough and parchment paper into the hot cast iron skillet, I don't cover it, I leave it in for 40 minutes. and it rises beautifully and I like it better than with a cover on it!
Thanks for another great experiment. Curious if you usually preheat the vessels at all? Does it effect the overall temp & therefore have an effect on the oven spring?
Great video with lots of good choices, I will use my Pyrex dish now 👍
I use two stainless steel steam table pans. The full size pans allows me to put 3 - 9" loaf pans when making sandwich loaves and cover them. I usually add 1/4 cup of water to the bottom for extra steam. Bake at 475F for 40 minutea and then uncovered for another 10 -20 depending on the bread.
It also allows me to do longer loaves. For that, i put a metal 1/4 measuring cup of water in one of the corners instead of dumping it on the bottom like I do with loaf pans.
Oh... And I bought 2" deep full size pan for the bottom and a 6" deep full size pan for the top cover. It gives you close to 8" of room. Plenty of room for 2lb or 1KG loaves.
Hi Sune. Really appreciate your explanations. What about the Emile Henri cloche ?
I love your bread baking experiments. They help break down some of the sourdough baking myths. Thanks for making these videos. I always learn something.
Thank you so much for doing this! i'm a new sourdough baker, and I dont have the equipment. This video helps alot! will be trying my pyrex!
You should repeat the no preheating of the oven experiment with the lightweight cover. You used the cast iron with the preheat test which obviously take all heat without preheating leaving the bread cold. The lightweight cover will warm up fast and bake the bread better. As you can see with this experiment the cast iron doesn't do much, so you can still save a lot of energy.
I've been watching your videos for a few months now and I think this is the one I really wanted to see from you! I've been baking in a Le Creuset but I hate that I either have to drop the dough into it or put it on baking paper and lower it in - either way, it affects the shape. Now I'm convinced that my baking steel and Pyrex bowl will work just fine!
Or invert the dutch oven over the bread and stone/steel.
@@TEDodd good call! I'm not sure why I never thought of that
Wow, your videos are amazing. Really good decisions on the shoots to learn about the technique and the way the dough is handled. Everything is very clear. Great channel for learning about baking.
I've always used a Pyrex container and results never let me down. Nice experiment.
you have some of the most informative content, thank you very much
Thank you
That was surprising. The traditional advice is to use the cast iron dutch oven. Now we have more options. Thanks Sune, and good experiment.
I think cast iron is the traditional suggestion because it is known to be safe at high temperatures, whereas not all glassware will be. I don't have a Pyrex bowl but I do have Anchor which based on reviews I see online is suggested to shatter into a thousand itty bitty pieces.
I was honestly a bit more surprised to see that none of the vessels were pre-heated: I often heat my cast iron pot along with my baking steel, now I wonder if the idea that an oven spring is encouraged by the heated pot is an actual thing or not.
I have a rather small pot, 2 quarts, so at best by breads basically form fit into it so it doesn't seem to negatively impact spring at least.
I would hold my breath when heating Pyrex to 500 deg f. I would have expected it to shatter. Also have to be careful not to bang the oven on the way out. Glass is much less able to absorb impact at those temps. I would stick with metals.
@@jme8112strat I agree. With Pyrex at 500F, any bump might be your last. I also stick to metal. When using Pyrex I just set it into the oven and bake, and carefully let it cool down.
@@jme8112strat Pyrex safe with 600°F as well. I think cast iron is suggested because the basic method is to put the dough INSIDE the bowl, so it can get a high constant heat - but as he said, he used a stone, which is maybe even better - covering metarial will not matter, it's only for keeping the steam inside.
Wonderful presentation and explanation very clear and useful
Cheap stainless steel mixing bowls work beautifully and they are lightweight and nest for storage. You can’t beat them. A preheated cast iron skillet works as well as a baking stone under the bowls.
I loved this experiment. I prefer Pyrex/ Corningware but never considered it for bread baking! I’m going to give it a try. Love your channel.
Thank you so much for this very well researched and well presented demonstration. I like many hanker after the perfect loaf. I found this very helpful because of the non-variable comparison. I think I'll have a go with the Pyrex. Kind regards from North Wales UK
😃
Thank you Sune for your valuable input. I am also new to sourdough bread baking and with your experiments you are answering questions I haven't even thought of yet!
Thank you soooo much! I have been waiting for this experiment. Now I know what to buy!
Well, another nice video-experiment. Would have loved to see the ovenspring of an uncovered loaf baked with steam, compated to the covered loafs, though.
Great, I have been looking for something to replace cast iron, which I don't have. A big big Thank You to you! 🙏🙏🙏
LOVE your personal teaching style, Sune! How long should the bulk fermentation take (to grow 25%) at 4:40, in a temperature-controlled proofer?
How do you take into considerations, that the second bread has 40 min. Longer testing time and the 3. Bread 80 min. - beacause they are waiting for the other breads to bake ? Thank you
The loaves are waiting in the fridge after several hours, so there isn't much difference. If the proofing is direct, at room temperature, it is impossible to bake the three loaves at the optimal point of fermentation.
Not much difference because they are waiting in the fridge.
You’re not talking about the proofing, but about the baked products, right? No one seems to get that.
I use an enameled roaster with lid. I just put the loaf on parchment and it's like a cradle lowering it in. I bake my sourdough and yeast bread this way, the only difference being temperature.
Brock Landers do you set the roaster on the oven rack or on a baking stone/steel?
What a great video, I was wondering about it too. Thank you 💖
Do you bake your bread directly from a fridge?
Does the pyrex lid sit snug on the steel with no steam escaping? In the video this particular model looks like its slightly elevated at where the handles are, allowing for steam to escape?
Hey Sune, do you think you could make a video about sourdough English muffins 🙏🏽🙌🏽
Congratulations You gave me useful ideas that I will try in my learning journey . Baking sourdough bread is a never ending experience.
Can you please please do another experiment without using the steel as a base but the base of the actual containers ? I transfer the loaf in the baking pot after I turn it over on parchment paper and it’s very easy to lift it with the paper and place it in the pot.
that's how i do it too, difficult to get a steel or stone shipped to my location so am using a lightweight enamel pan and lid. while it's working great, for me as a newbie, i love seeing all the variables
The cast iron lid was preheating in the oven, was already hot when he place the dough in. The glass lid and the roast lid wasn't preheated as the cast iron, so right there you loose lots of oven spring. Not fear! However I love his videos is I being learning a lot.
Sube! Tks for the good work, you helping a lot to change the world of grains, flours and do your self for a better place.
Could you maybe do under proofing vs over proofing
What if you don’t have a baking stone? Is it Ok to use a cheaper metal tray, round or rectangular? Thank you ☺️
Great! I have pyrex and now I know how I can bake with good oven spring. I shall try it! Thank you so much.
Hi Sune, have you tested preheated vs. non-preheated dutch ovens?
I have a feeling that the non-preheated oven (with perhaps a few minutes extra first baking time) will give a higher rise because the dough has a longer time to rise before the top crust over. Would be quite interesting to see.
There will be a significant difference as baking the dough directly right on the baking pots vs using them as covers to compare while using the same base material. All three react to heat differently related to temperature and time.
Hello sune! Can I use the glass vessel from turbo broiler as lid when baking sourdough? On top of a cast iron pizza steel? Thanks
The enamel roaster was the bottom - they sometimes come with a lid. I have a clay bread cloche that I bake with.
Great vid, Sune! I really like the way you make this 'scientific' by only varying one parameter.
Thanks Sune for this experiment. I have recently started making sourdough bread and use a Pyrex dish as it’s relatively light weight and much cheaper than cast iron, I found it works really well and have been getting better loaves the more I bake. Have you also tried different kneading techniques, I’ve heard of the Rubaud method, stretch and fold, coil method and plain kneading.....which is best? Thanks for all the interesting experiments you have done👍
Zune, you are awesome!! Is there an issue with the pyrex at that high of temperature?? Im concerned about this.
I did learn today!!!! Many thanks ...had not thought to do this before so will try it
I greatly appreciate the simple approach which yields such great results. Love the experiment's and as always feel very inspired. Thanks Sune
Awesome test Sune! Could this be achieved with a stainless steel mixing bowl as well?
I think this experiment shows that it doesn't matter much what you cover your bread with :) So yes, I am sure it'll work :)
@@Foodgeek thanks for your reply! I went with a steel pot and it gave me my best bread so far! Har set mange af dine videoer og lært en masse (du er dansker ik?). Tak Sune!
Hi, I have a baking steel griddle for bread or pizzas (40 x 30 cm, 5 mm thick). I'm not sure, but in the video it looks like you have a griddle too, or a baking stone. I think it's a great idea to use the great base heat of the griddle or stone, combined with the pyrex or cast iron dome to keep the steam in. My idea was to buy the pyrex dish, and I would like to know if, when placed on the baking base, it withstands the heat well without breaking.
Thank you very much.😊
Did you heat up the stone before baking the bread? **** If so, how long did you heat the stone in the oven? Thanks!
It's steel. I heat it for an hour 😊
Thanks, quick reply!
I have cast iron Comal, Mexican cast iron griddle but it’s oval. If I used a “pizza stone,” I would heat it up first, but worried it would crack with the weight or if I sprayed water on the dough, it would crack the stone. WHAT KIND OF STEEL PLATE did you use?
Mine was cut to size by a Smith. It's ships steel. But I am sure the regular commercial ones are fine 😊
@@Foodgeek Thanks!
Food geek Sune hello good afternoon to you from Canada I do really like what you do and how you go about making many people understand the difference between the vessel to bake off the bread and the way you do tests please keep up all of your great work you are doing from Domenico Monteleone
I tried an Ikea steel bowl just two days ago and worked fine for me.
Was that an IKEA Blanda Blank? I was looking at those myself as it is hopeless to get a dutch oven, or a big enough pot, that is not too high for the oven.
Cheap stainless mixing bowls from Walmart work just fine!
Great demonstration. Thanks for doing the work for the rest of us GEEKS 😃
You're welcome :)
Hey love your videos and great info. I noticed you didn’t spray or use any kind of steaming technique. Does your oven have steam injection or do you not really use steam? The breads look great otherwise.
Your videos are so soothing - they help me during rough times
I might start using a baking stone / steel, since I'd like to make some batard shaped loaves. My Dutch oven can only really handle boules (at the dough weight I'm going with, about 900g).
I wonder if there are very large ones that'd fit two loaves. If that was the case, I'd be tempted to cook two at a time, and try to put a large pan over the top to trap steam. Baking the bread is a great and rewarding part of the process, but it's sometimes inconvenient to my day for it to take 3 hours, preheating, doing loaf 1, heating back up, doing loaf 2.
How does the temperature of the dough affect oven spring? Does doing a cold ferment overnight or baking the dough at room temperature lead to better oven spring?
The fridge dries the dough all around, creating a stiffer 'container', still keeping the inside moist, helping to retain the shape and also far easier to score.
Just a question how long between fridge and over. Some, take the dough out of fridge and let sit for an hour or two before oven, but I've seen some place it pretty much from fridge to oven with minimal rest time...
Very made and informative video but I have one becasue I could not understand what you said. What did you bake the bread on?
A baking steel 😊
@@Foodgeek Thank you.
I've been successful by using a big disposable aluminum pan. Super light and cheap. There is no point in pre-heating it because it has a pretty low thermal mass. I spray the inside with water before covering the bread, but I'm not sure if that is necessary.
One geek to another. Nice guitars. If you were to make your own music soundtrack with that tasty acoutic guitar with the nice appointments, you could call this "Bread and Jam".
Serious question: What do you mean by bulk rise to 25 percent? Is that like one more hour?
I ask because I bulk rise for 4-5 hours with stretchnfolds every hour. It seriously gives the loaf a big oven spring.
I start counting after I finish stretch and folds. I let it rise so that it's 25% larger than when it started to a total size of 125% compared to when you start counting 😊
If you search my channel.I made a sourdough blues 😁
Can you preheat the pyrex without it shattering? Also, how do you manage baking multiple loaves when each requires the temperature to drop at the second stage of baking? Do you just leave the other loaves in the fridge for the extra hour it probably takes to bake one and then raise the temperature back to 500? Does that time make any difference?
I also worry about the heat shock of placing pyrex onto a ripping hot baking steel
Hi. Thanks for the video! However, wouldn't it make more sense to bake in a cast iron combo cooker vs a pyrex dish vs a baking steel+steam, but using both the top and the bottom of the cast iron/pyrex dishes? I am really new to sourdough baking, but from what I have read, the baking surface makes all the difference, since it transfers heat directly to the bread and is one of the main contributors to ovensping.
The baking steel is the best surface for transfer of heat (better than cast iron); so baking directly on the steel with a cover achieves the same effect as using a combo cooker/dutch oven.
That being said, use what works best and easiest for you!
@@adamjchafe I'm curious how a baking steel would be different from something like a baking stone, or slab of granite.
@@JohnLockard Here is a good article with some explanations on the difference: slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baking-steel-delivers.html
There should be some heat retention in the pyrex as well - so it could be preheated as the cast iron. but all 3 look great so maybe no need to go down that route :-)
HOOKEDONWOOD except that Pyrex isn’t meant to be used over 450F so overheating it could crack it
@@flyingozzy that depends in which glass. Original Pyrex is borosilicate and safe go 900F.
Later they changed to tempered soda-lime glads which has lower limits.
Borosilicate is also use in chemistry labs, over high heat and even direct flame.
So a good borosilicate dish (like Anchor) is fine at 500F, just not the current Pyrex brand junk.
@@flyingozzy pyrex bakeware is oven safe to 300C. Its the enamel one that from what I've seen is only oven safe to 230C.
Maybe swapping an enamel to a steel roaster would be better (still cheap, though slightly heavier), but then the temp might be to do with the coatings.. so checking is key.
I use a 2cm thick pizza stone ($4) and a stainless steel salad bowl (4$).
It doesn't have to be expensive to be good :)
I’m going to try it next with a loaf on my big cast iron pizza pan with a Pyrex casserole dish over it then again with the 2nd loaf on the same pan with a big stainless steel mixing bowel and see how it goes after seeing this. I’m really not wanting stockpiles of ultra expensive cookware in here but still wanting all the great results.
Sune!
I have become a big fan of your channel, it seems to answer the questions which no one else can answer!
So here is another one for you: Whats the difference, a short bulk ferment and longer proof or long bulk and shorter proof (given the same amount of total time)?
funny Ive been using an enameled oval dutch oven, but I bought this to try out as I use my dutch oven so much to cook with I wanted a cheaper alternative bought it and now seeing this video! I think Ill be alright. Im going to use top and bottom preheater of coarse. I want to get the cast iron bread oven but I think Ill stay with this for a while now that ive seen this I might have a nice alternative for folks who cant spend as much!
do we also need to preheat together with the pyrex dish?
What procent of hidration did you use for the dough? (flour and water)
I always leave a link in the description for the formula in my bread calculator: fdgk.net/baking-vessel-experiment-formula :)
If you can, please provide link to the Pyrex dish you have used in this video. I failed to find Pyrex dish of this size.
I use the roaster method and the bread is coming good. No stone or steel yet, I'm new. Very hard to put two baguettes though. Round is easiest.
So cool how you always react to viewer input with your experiments! Keep it up, Sune!
I love the results, since I have any number of things I can use - so I’m glad one isn’t necessarily the only “right” utensil! One question: I assume the fact that the last loaf waits a longer time before it gets baked doesn’t make a difference? (It stayed in the fridge, right?)
This was such an awesome experiment video! Super informative. Love it. Thank you!
Is it safe to use the newer generations of Pyrex dishes? I heard that those are made of soda-lime glass instead of borosilicate. The label do say it’s preheated oven safe tho.
Thank you for nice video!! I just have few questions! 1. when you bake, are you using fan forced mode or grill mode?? 2. I don't need to spray water on the surface of bread if I use cast iron??
Thank you!!
1. Fan forced 2. You never need to spray, but a good spray can help with getting crispy bubbles on the crust :)
@@Foodgeek thank you!
always used a pyrex for baking bread, but pre-heated. i am glad to see there is no difference to the cast iron, as this one would be too heavy from my cheap mini oven. yhanks for experimenting it =)
Thanks alot sune. I wish u will make a video testing with or without tangzhong
I bought the enameled roaster that you linked at it's way too small. I double checked and the interior height is only 3 inches. Are you sure you don't have a bigger one?
I'm pretty disappointed, but I'm still hoping to find another vessel to use as a lid for my baking steel. Unfortunately(?), I have several Le Creuset pots, but their handles curve above the rim of the pot, so they don't work as baking lids.
I didn't want to invest in a Dutch oven so I basically do this. I got a huge glass bowl and cover my bread with that. It works really well.
I think these materials start to matter at a point where your oven might not have enough power, so the thermal storage of the material will make up for the oven being unable to heat back up fast enough.
So could be a good experiment with a cheap stand alone oven
Would u consider making comparison with clay roaster too? Thanks
What is the base rack you are using? What material is it made of?
It's a baking steel ☺️
I’m new to bread making and never knew about baking steel. What is the oven size percentage as compared to the baking steel size? I found one on line to purchase but the size is my entire rack size from front to back. Is that too big? Or is a smaller size is better so the heat can circulate?
Btw your videos are the best I’ve seen. Well done.
@@monicatowns5559 In many ways, the bigger the better, but you also need to consider how long it will take to saturate it with heat. I would recommend one that takes up the entire rack, but is not too think :)
Thanks
@@Foodgeek thank you so much for sharing this info with me . Have a fantastic day.