We recognize a spectrum in sexuality, but don't want to acknowledge the spectrum of belief. I appreciate and respect Dr Pagels for understanding that one can practice and engage in Christianity, yet not "believe" in the way most Americans think believe must be done. I an Minister of music at a liberal Christian church, but I cannot prove whether or not the events and words in the Bible are accurate. But I find enjoyment and solace and spiritual and intellectual growth, and the blessings of social interactions.
She is quite possibly the most educated person on the Bible and of the journey to Christianity and competing religions at that time. For me she enriches Christianity and makes it more believable than what the average church has to offer. If you are not asking questions then you are not really believing.
Listening to Pagels speak of her reaction to the death of a child reminds me how individual our journeys are through grief, and I also think our journey speaks deeply of who we are, ie what we discover about ourselves when we travel inward. She is by nature a deep and highly intellectual thinker whereas I think of myself as an independent and good thinker but more of a simple soul. I lost my daughter when she was twenty-seven years old, and one could view it as perhaps a death that need not have happened. I started writing around 4 months later as a means of understanding what had happened and also a means to process my grief. It became a book that I recently published. Being spiritual all my life and a seeker/explorer of my inner thoughts and feelings, while I recognised something of Pagels response to her losses, I never felt punished or angry with God. I have an understanding that things are not always as they may seem to us, that some souls come into the world with a soul contract to help us with our life's lessons (as in the example of Bathsheba and David), and also discovered the blessings that can come out of suffering. I was fundamentally changed by my experience of loss, but saw how it affected people around me differently, and others I know who lost a child. How we deal with suffering has deep ramification, I find, with the outcome of our suffering. I never felt that God caused my daughter to die, and I do believe that there is meaning in everything that happens around us, the good and the bad. and organised within our learning experience and by us ourselves. We are a self-organising multitude (free will) and once created, God needed to 'hide himself' to keep his hand out of the results to finally emerge from Creation.
@@Ejaezy I deal with them in an allegorical way. I believe that God created the universe and turned away. What would be the point of everything if he kept altering and switching what he created? We are all attempting to reformulate the universe in his image, day by day and millennium by millennium. I do believe we can ask individually for guidance and support though. Things may always get so bad that he asks us to start over. But whatever happens we all have another home. I hope that explains how I deal with my personal beliefs. Thank you for your comment.
My heart goes out to you Elaine. I’ve lost both my sense to suicide the youngest one 22 years ago and the oldest one just this past me you never get over it you just get past it. and like you, I’ve had a lot of support…. I absolutely detest with the culture and their religions teach about. Somehow you’re getting punished when bad things happen to you you are brilliant, and I have learned so much from you. so thank you I left Christianity 10 years ago and never looked back. I chose conservative Judaism. That’s where I get all my answers and I love being a Jew by Choice
She has experienced so much true grief in her life I cannot even imagine it as a 22yr old, what a strong woman, if I can be even half as strong as her mentally and spiritually through hardship in my life I will die proud.
Yes, Elaine, the most idiotic question I got after my partner's death 'How long it took you to get back to normal?' There is no going back ever. One gets into a new normal. And that is your life. You are/become great.
What, 'Death is a punishment?', absolutely not. Everything that is born, dies, everything. It is not a punishment, it is a truth of this imperfect realm we find ourselves in, namely the material realm. There is no death in the Pleroma (spiritual heavens) as there was never a birth. Everything there was brought forth from the One, the All, the Father, it is clearly described as you know. Simply, Death is a transition; return here or go home, you have your free will.
'religion s task is to facilitate transcendetal experience by finding love in themselfs, know thyself gnote se auton , the esotheric teachings , pure truth
Again at 1:11:00 area, you speak of something preceding the universe, and you say Einstein would have called it the Good Lord. Well here again your NHL tells you detailed knowledge repeatedly on this very topic. On who, and how this material universe was created or formed, who brought about the so-called big bang. Also much more. And it clearly was not the Good Lord, nor the Father of Christ or myself.
Sin, no cannot agree with that, sin is a material act viewed as against god's will, but he, being Christ's Father, does not tell us what is sinful, and Christ tells us there is only one true sin in the bible, and actually our true nature is sinless and can never sin as it is from the true Father. 'Genesis, doing something wrong', nothing was done wrong, except for an angry creator god. How could you have studied so much, but hold (58:00) these views. Perhaps your reflecting on biblical views.
So sorry, (59:20), 'terrible kind of loss, burden of guilt?' One should not feel this way, actually one should be happy for a loved one who moves on with hopes they are closer to going home, as the loss is within those left behind. With all your studies, you would think you grasped the sacred secret of Christ and his ascension. Perhaps you got sidetracked, no idea. He gave us the Truth and the Way, look a bit deeper. Be blessed
You lack empathy. But i answer you: you can have both views in your heart. The pain of a mother that loses her child is horrifying. So much fundamentalism in your response, like tunel vision...
@@andreiadetavora8471 Have little doubt a mother would feel pain in losing a child, or another losing a loved one, but in truth and in Gnostic studies, one comes to know that death brings opportunity to return home. There is nothing better than this, nothing, so mainly my point is that the grief is with the one left behind, not the one who dies. Death is a blessing for us all, even if it can seem harsh or saddening to others. Empathy is for those who live to show Empathy to another's situation and feelings, but if one is an Gnostic, they should not feel this way. Nor should any Abrahamic religion.
Oh by the way Elaine, considering you speak of the atomic bombings, the end of WWII, the Jewish or Hebrew views, and the Nag Hammadi. Did you also realize all of these happened in a very short period of time in the second half of the 1940's. Also, in case you did not know, these are all spoken of in biblical texts as events that would come during the last days or the final generation of humanity. All the best
![ILLSLICK - THE KING'S LANDING [Freestyle]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/feIJJnNkTfk/mqdefault.jpg)
We recognize a spectrum in sexuality, but don't want to acknowledge the spectrum of belief.
I appreciate and respect Dr Pagels for understanding that one can practice and engage in Christianity, yet not "believe" in the way most Americans think believe must be done.
I an Minister of music at a liberal Christian church, but I cannot prove whether or not the events and words in the Bible are accurate. But I find enjoyment and solace and spiritual and intellectual growth, and the blessings of social interactions.
She is quite possibly the most educated person on the Bible and of the journey to Christianity and competing religions at that time. For me she enriches Christianity and makes it more believable than what the average church has to offer. If you are not asking questions then you are not really believing.
Listening to Pagels speak of her reaction to the death of a child reminds me how individual our journeys are through grief, and I also think our journey speaks deeply of who we are, ie what we discover about ourselves when we travel inward. She is by nature a deep and highly intellectual thinker whereas I think of myself as an independent and good thinker but more of a simple soul. I lost my daughter when she was twenty-seven years old, and one could view it as perhaps a death that need not have happened. I started writing around 4 months later as a means of understanding what had happened and also a means to process my grief. It became a book that I recently published. Being spiritual all my life and a seeker/explorer of my inner thoughts and feelings, while I recognised something of Pagels response to her losses, I never felt punished or angry with God. I have an understanding that things are not always as they may seem to us, that some souls come into the world with a soul contract to help us with our life's lessons (as in the example of Bathsheba and David), and also discovered the blessings that can come out of suffering. I was fundamentally changed by my experience of loss, but saw how it affected people around me differently, and others I know who lost a child. How we deal with suffering has deep ramification, I find, with the outcome of our suffering. I never felt that God caused my daughter to die, and I do believe that there is meaning in everything that happens around us, the good and the bad. and organised within our learning experience and by us ourselves. We are a self-organising multitude (free will) and once created, God needed to 'hide himself' to keep his hand out of the results to finally emerge from Creation.
You don't believe that god interacts with his creation? How do you deal with his involvement in human affairs in the bible?
@@Ejaezy I deal with them in an allegorical way. I believe that God created the universe and turned away. What would be the point of everything if he kept altering and switching what he created? We are all attempting to reformulate the universe in his image, day by day and millennium by millennium. I do believe we can ask individually for guidance and support though. Things may always get so bad that he asks us to start over. But whatever happens we all have another home. I hope that explains how I deal with my personal beliefs. Thank you for your comment.
I just want to give you a very big hug
Magnificent energy this woman has in her words and work. Thank you.
My heart goes out to you Elaine. I’ve lost both my sense to suicide the youngest one 22 years ago and the oldest one just this past me you never get over it you just get past it. and like you, I’ve had a lot of support…. I absolutely detest with the culture and their religions teach about. Somehow you’re getting punished when bad things happen to you you are brilliant, and I have learned so much from you. so thank you I left Christianity 10 years ago and never looked back. I chose conservative Judaism. That’s where I get all my answers and I love being a Jew by Choice
That was supposed to say both my sons not sense That was definitely a typo
She has experienced so much true grief in her life I cannot even imagine it as a 22yr old, what a strong woman, if I can be even half as strong as her mentally and spiritually through hardship in my life I will die proud.
Wondeful conversación. Greetings from Chile
Yes, Elaine, the most idiotic question I got after my partner's death 'How long it took you to get back to normal?' There is no going back ever. One gets into a new normal. And that is your life. You are/become great.
Some might say that Truth is just so, regardless of the presence or absence of your belief in it.
And what or who (from a intelectual approach, not a religious one) determines the truth?
Thanks Elaine...for your wonderful work...
Thank you, Professor Pagels, for sharing not only your work, but also yourself. You are superb.
What, 'Death is a punishment?', absolutely not. Everything that is born, dies, everything. It is not a punishment, it is a truth of this imperfect realm we find ourselves in, namely the material realm. There is no death in the Pleroma (spiritual heavens) as there was never a birth. Everything there was brought forth from the One, the All, the Father, it is clearly described as you know. Simply, Death is a transition; return here or go home, you have your free will.
It's a punishment according to the bible. A punishment for sin specifically.
very good, thank you!
'religion s task is to facilitate transcendetal experience by finding love in themselfs, know thyself gnote se auton , the esotheric teachings , pure truth
But transcendental is a hindu concept. Christianity never believed in introspection
I wish we had had someone like Elaine teaching religion in my school.
The four Noble truths. The foundation of Buddhism.
I love her ❤
Gratitude!!
Alvin Boyd Kuhn knew as well.He wrote about third century that Rome lied about.
❤
unfortunately she makes the premise that jesus was a real historical figure
Again at 1:11:00 area, you speak of something preceding the universe, and you say Einstein would have called it the Good Lord. Well here again your NHL tells you detailed knowledge repeatedly on this very topic. On who, and how this material universe was created or formed, who brought about the so-called big bang. Also much more. And it clearly was not the Good Lord, nor the Father of Christ or myself.
Starts 11:39. Ridiculous introduction that no one wants to listen to on this platform 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
Neville Goddard knew the Gospel. states determine what you believe .
❤
Sin, no cannot agree with that, sin is a material act viewed as against god's will, but he, being Christ's Father, does not tell us what is sinful, and Christ tells us there is only one true sin in the bible, and actually our true nature is sinless and can never sin as it is from the true Father. 'Genesis, doing something wrong', nothing was done wrong, except for an angry creator god. How could you have studied so much, but hold (58:00) these views. Perhaps your reflecting on biblical views.
GOD JESUS IS OUR CREATOR AND ONLY SAVIOR AND SATAN IS VERY REAL
So sorry, (59:20), 'terrible kind of loss, burden of guilt?' One should not feel this way, actually one should be happy for a loved one who moves on with hopes they are closer to going home, as the loss is within those left behind. With all your studies, you would think you grasped the sacred secret of Christ and his ascension. Perhaps you got sidetracked, no idea. He gave us the Truth and the Way, look a bit deeper. Be blessed
You lack empathy. But i answer you: you can have both views in your heart. The pain of a mother that loses her child is horrifying. So much fundamentalism in your response, like tunel vision...
@@andreiadetavora8471 Have little doubt a mother would feel pain in losing a child, or another losing a loved one, but in truth and in Gnostic studies, one comes to know that death brings opportunity to return home. There is nothing better than this, nothing, so mainly my point is that the grief is with the one left behind, not the one who dies. Death is a blessing for us all, even if it can seem harsh or saddening to others. Empathy is for those who live to show Empathy to another's situation and feelings, but if one is an Gnostic, they should not feel this way. Nor should any Abrahamic religion.
Oh by the way Elaine, considering you speak of the atomic bombings, the end of WWII, the Jewish or Hebrew views, and the Nag Hammadi. Did you also realize all of these happened in a very short period of time in the second half of the 1940's. Also, in case you did not know, these are all spoken of in biblical texts as events that would come during the last days or the final generation of humanity. All the best
She is very nice but does not know what she is talking about.
oh yes she does!
@@fredzacaria if you say so.