Marvelous! When somebody can speak off the cuff for an hour on something she knows and understands, you know you've found a real teacher and someone who loves what she's talking about. What great insight! Thank you!
100%. Recently stumbled across Pagels, and she is able to reveal what I've been looking for to support the mis treatment of those who choose for themselves, rather than by an institution.
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When say trust in educated guessers deceivers of self and others injust self and others unknown exactly void in understand unknown self proclaimed people proclaimed for what false prophet all could proclaim
My mother used to think there was more to the Bible than what was taught at our church. She said many things didn't make sense, there were conflicts, etc. I wish she were alive today, she would love these, alternative views. In her final days, she bought the 'Lost Books of the Bible" but, she didn't read it as she was in the process of passing over. I have the book, now
That’s beautiful, and so true. She really had “eyes to see and ears to hear.” You honor her with this comment and by digging into what she was talking about.
@@sjr7822 The problem of thinking the whole world revolves around Christianity. The religion of the last one percent of a human history of 200,000 years. Much came before Christianity and where Christianity got it's ideas. Creation stories, dying rising God's, etc...
My mother and father thought the same as your mother. I have always known at the back of my mind that there was much more to the meanings of Jesus words, like many of us, I think that the information was kept secret because of unscrupulous people who could have used the knowledge to control others. Now,those unscrupulous people are busy controlling others by political means and that’s okay because this knowledge is not for them. I look forward to sharing eternity with you all if blessed by the Precious Lord. ❤❤
Who the hell you think you are . A bunch of fools speaking saying nothing impressing others pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly void in know unknown exactly deceiving even self unknown to even self refuse to question any play educated guesser pretenders of understanding question none talk out arrogant jackass unknown to even self returned to one true and just known self reborn two became one in one whole in one whole in one returned to the father walked the golden Path reborn 3 in one whole in one whole in one known self reborn walked threw door reborn 3 is the golden age of one whole in one known to the father healed in the Holy Spirit in one whole in one perfect known self reborn two became one the day you one you became two divided split a piece of wood and I AM there . If make two into one heal in the Holy Spirit in one self one against two two against three three against two two against three . Three in one walk threw door reborn on the golden Path to the father 369 returned to beginings without ends in one whole in one whole in one whole in one many and five stand as one known before he was born undeniably proclaimed three times over before he was born three times three times over out womb and in man born the living Son of Man won't taste death . And five stand as one known to the ALL seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one . Who the hell you pretending to what the hell you call it best be done playing prophets sure as hell false prophets if keep it up question none pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly unknown j Hell no
What the hell wrong with people ? If you don't have Thoth's curse pathological lying ego arrogant masters in Deceiving self guess you know figured it out positive you guess you know self proclaimed people proclaimed proves only unknown unproclaimed deniable false prophets if anything best know it
These people while actively bringing invaluable insights of history into view, don’t care about the why, only the what and the how. This is academic not spiritual. But yes my friend, it was rejected because it took the power from the priesthood and put it in the hands of the people. To seek the experience God through yourself rather than require the church to dispense it to you was considered heresy.
@@mareklame8589 I suppose you’d never be interested in reading the gospels found at nag hammadi? Have you ever asked yourself what you’d believe in if you were alone in the world and had no one to tell you what to believe? Do you think it would be wrong? For you to not have a chance to experience any gospels whatsoever, do you think that would lead you to hell? Without being given the thing that everyone is suppose to find if they want to be saved. Trust me the things you’d come up with by yourself about life are much more aligned to the notions of the apocrypha and the real words of Jesus the Christ, not the canon. The canon was curated by a group of ambitious power hungry sexist judgmental bigots, and to this day the Roman church has contaminated the word of Jesus by people defending “canon” that is such a stupid word in the first place. Authoritative? Wow. “I like your Christ, I don’t like your Christians, your Christians are not like your Christ” - Gandhi.
One of the things that kind of blows my mind, as a former evangelical, is that the versions of Christianity that became mainstream is solely because they were the most authoritarian ones. Adopted by the main authorities of their time. This says nothing about their claim to be the "one".
@geoattoronto 0 seconds ago It seems that the Bible does not capture Jesus' real teaching on salvation - the Love Path, and we have the Pauline substitute!
Perhaps my favorite lecture by Elaine Pagels. The Gospel of Thomas's claim that "the kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it," would revolutionize how we read and understand the New Testament, not to mention how we practice Christianity. "It's not about faith...it's about knowing....who you are....--that created in the image, we too are children of the Father, intrinsically related to the divine....when you come to know who you are really, on the level of the heart, you come to know God as the source of your being."
Why would you believe in the so-called Thomas gospel and not those written a hundred years closer to when Jesus lived. Jesus said we are to have faith in Him. He told the real Thomas how much better it will be for those that never saw Him to believe than those that knew Jesus. We are a child of God. We are not God's. We have life because God the creator made it so.
I love Eileen pagels she is true speaker and comes from her heart ❤️ as she writes. She's such a great teacher. My blessings and prayers go out to you Thank you Dr pagels for your wonderful Work for the truth.
Very good ! Through my walk, I have had several visions & 2 angel visitations. I was raised in a church who did Not believe in these things whatsoever. So I didn't either. But they happened anyway--especially after I told God from my gut "I just want to know the Truth--No Matter, what it is ".. I am old now & God has insisted all through my walk to watch out for "ego", continuously, but Not said in a mean or critical way--but there were so many reminders given to me from Him that I knew that it was very very important. I am glad that you brought the "ego" up & how it can hurt us & actually turn into a mental illness. I thank God that I know who He is and I know who I am and can enjoy the Spiritual benefits --without the ego. I believe that there are many like me and in no way special.
Beautifully said. And it is true, there are many of us who connect to the Divine Light and Love. Just as the teaching of Jesus and other teachings say, it is our natural right, this is who we are but have forgotten. This connection doesn't make anyone especial, but it does take some honesty with oneself, an open heart and mind and at least minimally disciplined living. Ego inflation is indeed the most dangerous trap on any spiritual journey, and it can indeed lead to a mental disorder.
There are a lot of answers to so many questions here, and we need to study this information carefully and to understand why it was withheld from the world. Thankfully, there were those who knew that we would need the hidden books in time. I bless those who laid down their lives to protect and preserve the books as they gave their lives for our precious Saviour. Thank you Elaine Pagels for your gentle but powerful presentation. ❤
The Bible mentions something about hiding scripture that will be found when needed: Daniel 12:4 "But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.” The Nag Hammadi library seems like what Daniel 12:4 mentioned too. Were the monks who buried those scriptures inspired by Daniel 12:4?
I am kind of busy. As I really cannot say that your words, at a glance are endearing, anymore than to caption each particular thought with my name foremost, this really cannot keep my attention as my intent is vested elsewhere; certainly not THIS dialog. It never reached the stage of familiarity or conversation, so peership is out, too.
I've read everything she has written beginning with the Gnostic Gospels. She has a remarkable ability to explain complicated and pretty dry subjects in a way that even I, who is not a Bible scholar, can understand them. Thank you Dr. Pagels. On a totally separate note, there is a relatively well done movie loosely based on the idea of a rediscovered revolutionary gospel that must be supressed. It's pretty entertaining. I think it's called Stigmata.
The kingdom, the light, and the church are one until it is not. I recall her excitement introducing Gnostics. It is rather refreshing to see her after having studied those teachings. She is enlightened and lovely.
Interesting that you are in a position to judge whether and when she is/was enlightened. She sounds the same now as she did hen and is stills saying the same things.
Thank you so much for bringing the revelation of the mystery of the Kingdom to light. I would love that you travel to Uganda and five this conference as well. God bless you
I grew up from infancy in the Reformed Church of America, South Holland, Illinois version. Which makes stumbling into this discussion even more interesting than otherwise. I entered college at the time when the war in Vietnam was in its strongest rage. And realized that I am a conscientious objector. A stance my pastor made clear was not congruent with with my upbringing. I eventually found a home among Quakers. And have come to believe that, by accident or design, George Fox, in 1640, intuited some of what we find in the Gospel of Thomas. Guidence by Devine Light, among other things. [So, who is in charge of such coincidences?]
I thank Elaina Pagels for her study of the Gnosti Gospel and her own story, Why Religion. Wonderful Wonderful scholar. Her studies have guided my heart to dig deeper. I have found the Light that will dwell in my heart forever.
"I've search for me, but only found God, I've search for God, but only found me". Rumi. Took "me" three years. Brothers and sisters please "do it", search for our true identity within. God, the Source, loves you all, because you are "it"."it" lives beyond the mind, in the silence and in "nothing", being nothing, it is all there is Unconditional LOVE.to "you" all.
I'm studing nde, and there are things that connect with what she has to say. We are children of the Source and we never die. We are here to learn and then return to the Source.
@@aslikethesonI don’t know if you’ve read what Jesus said but he plainly said this! And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17 verse 20-21
I wish I could sit on the floor at her feet and listen to her speak for a week. I have always felt as if the teachings of the church were not complete and at times, somewhat inaccurate. Many of the unspoken truths I have felt all my life (now 60 years old) were spoken here in this video by Dr. Pagels Other truths I have always felf were spoken By Dr. Michael Heiser and by Dr Stephen Meyer. It is difficult for me to read due to blindness, so I find these video discussions very helpful. Thank you, thank you and thank you from the bottom of my heart.
She did an excellent job. I can easily see how she makes some of the more orthodox and fundamentalist scholars go bonkers! i felt like she was apporachable and mostly interested in sharing her knowledge moreso than pushing it onto anybody. Very refreshing approach coming from a classically trained scholar. I like her. She is good. 👍
Its very profound.... Kingdom is not outside & is not in matter! Beginning before beginning is the I AM that I AM! Scholarship can only take you so far. Spirituality is beyond scholarship. The esoteric teachings of sufi, Rumi, kabir, Miester Eckhart, the Rishi & Masters of the East the Hindus & Buddhist can begin the understanding of the mustard seed & its Here & Now in ourselves. Buddhas last sermon 'Be the Light to yourself' or Be your own Light.
@@kennyhalperin5302 And it is THAT narrow-minded (and brainwashed) Idealolgy that is destroying Humanity, and by consequence, the Planet. Read & Learn & Open Your Mind: EVERY culture 'believes' that they have the only true religion; Christianity (which Christ never created--he was a Jew all his life) is not original in this manner.
This is one of my favorite videos. It explains a lot of what I'm going through. There is a spot where she said some scholars believe that Jesus could never read or write, but I think he can at least read Because you read from the Scrolls in the synagogue announcing the beginning of his ministry
Who the hell you think you are . A bunch of fools speaking saying nothing impressing others pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly void in know unknown exactly deceiving even self unknown to even self refuse to question any play educated guesser pretenders of understanding question none talk out arrogant jackass unknown to even self returned to one true and just known self reborn two became one in one whole in one whole in one returned to the father walked the golden Path reborn 3 in one whole in one whole in one known self reborn walked threw door reborn 3 is the golden age of one whole in one known to the father healed in the Holy Spirit in one whole in one perfect known self reborn two became one the day you one you became two divided split a piece of wood and I AM there . If make two into one heal in the Holy Spirit in one self one against two two against three three against two two against three . Three in one walk threw door reborn on the golden Path to the father 369 returned to beginings without ends in one whole in one whole in one whole in one many and five stand as one known before he was born undeniably proclaimed three times over before he was born three times three times over out womb and in man born the living Son of Man won't taste death . And five stand as one known to the ALL seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one . Who the hell you pretending to what the hell you call it best be done playing prophets sure as hell false prophets if keep it up question none pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly unknown j Hell no
@@GnosticCushite is no debate who said pretend to understand guess you know question none false prophets at the end of the age question none pretend to figure it out is no game
@@GnosticCushite none even know what trust in God we trust in God means can't even understand we the people let alone play true and just known ears both ears hear married the father eyes see known to the true virgin mother creator understanding of what see and hear seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one
She says that the Coptic monks translated the Gospel of Thomas "carefully" into Coptic. I would cut her some slack since she is speaking half extemporaneously, but I would quibble that we cannot be sure the translators translated carefully in all textual instances. For example, a second or third century Greek fragment of Thomas says that there are multiple ones, apparently meaning people, whereas the fourth century Coptic says there are multiple gods. Was that a translation of what the Greek manuscript that the Coptic monk translated actually said, or was that a careless mistranslation? We don't know, but it leaves open the possibility that the Coptic text found at Nag Hamadi, Egypt was not the best version of Thomas, just the only full version that has become available to us.
I am just reading: Adam, Eve and the snake….by her and am impressed! Brilliant writer, I am glad I finally discovered her and also this channel, where I can listen to this great researcher, born the same year like me.
After 8 decades of life to still be a teacher through writing, or a learner through reading of such hefty scholarship is simply wonderful. Happy Birthday to both in 2023 🍰👏📚💡
At about 50 minutes Elaine goes into the “knowing” of who “you” are. This is experienced by stilling the mind. Remember, “be still and know that I am God” refers to stillness of the mind. The statements in the gnostic gospels could just as well have been said by a Buddhist who has stilled there mind to the level of what they call the 4th Jhana, also by a Hindu who had stilled the mind to the level of what they call nirvikalpa samadhi. When the mind stops, the ego stops completely, you will directly experience unity with God, that you can know as a fact without any doubt whatsoever, the idea of doubt has no place in this direct experience.
Elaine is wonderful! Definitely don't throw them out. They're very accurate and profound. One must know oneself. It gives one the paradigm, the template, needed to properly evaluate what is of the light. It begins with know oneself through meditation, meditation that opens one to insights and wisdom. Knowing within, one is easily able to corroborate what is true, and one is able to ascertain the meaning of secret teachings. Everything spiritual begins within oneself. One must draw from the inner well of wisdom through meditation. Regarding the verse that states that if I have it within me, it will save me, if not, it will kill me, I would like to say this: What one needs within to be saved is divine knowledge, the fruit of meditation. If one is lacking this, he is in darkness, and his darkness will kill him, figuratively, symbolically. And also regarding making the two one, male and female, evoking Genesis. There should be no differences, no partiality, no division. All is one. As far as making her male, the female is associated with the flesh by her very nature of bearing children. This was associated with sin. To be male was about separation from the world, renunciation of the world, guarding against the sinful proclivities of the flesh. Again, all is richly figurative and symbolic in understanding the mystical. Words are always pointing to something deeper. Jesus is an archetype of one who is successful in realizing his Divine Essence. It makes John's verses make more sense. No one can attain the Father except through me --- we are that me. Look within through meditation. That's the fundamental and operative means to ascend or evolve spiritually. This is the teaching of all Scripture, of all wisdom writings, purify yourself from within. Religions are corrupt because they pervert Scripture and teach righteousness through the outward. Truly, God does not care about whom you lie with, how long your hair should be, what you eat, or anything else external. Jesus said, what is outside a man does not defile him, it is what proceeds out of the heart that defiles him. He also said, clean the INSIDE of the cup. So no, the gnostic texts should indeed not be thrown out. They are repositories of divine wisdom, which can be known only through meditation. The true repository of wisdom is within us!
The gnostic gospels were only thrown out because the Catholic Church was hunting these gnostics down and killing them. They we’re running and hiding for their lives and hiding their texts so as not to be caught with them. Possibly hiding them temporarily and meaning to come back for them but never made it back to them. 🤷🏼♀️ my personal belief.
Self realisation?! Have you not read the Scriptures? The kingdom of heaven is a body of believers, a community; there's no 'self' in it. God is God and we are not. Please forgive my sharpness, but there is no salvation for a wretched human soul in self realisation. God bless you.
@@aletheuo475 God wants us to live with him, not separated from him. Until one realizes that this, indeed, is one's deepest fulfillment of self -> self realization, there is no hope of refusing any mortal sin. The wish to be near god is what makes us whole and free. And through Jesus we know we can attain this, because god's presence near us will not harm us anymore. We are free from the kind of sin that separates us from god, Jesus died for us. What we have to do now is to live according to Jesus' example. In the kingdom of god, that is within us and around us, if we choose.
@@stephanieiv1163 Yeah fine. I agree that the process of sanctification allows the believer to become more truly himself. My dispute is with the self-centredness that so many preachers use to make their messages more popular. I find that so many people use mystical New Age type language with a focus on self-fulfilment and growth because the real gospel sounds too old fashioned or offensive. 'No one can teach it. It's always there within and without'. This is mysticism. Although the gospel indeed must be experienced personally, it can be taught.
@@aletheuo475 There is a kosmos of difference between small 's' self and capital 'S' self. St Paul spake about the Self when he said "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" or " “put away the old self of your former way of life, corrupted through deceitful desires, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new self, created in God’s way in righteousness and holiness of truth.” That is the realization of Self. It has nothing to do with small/false/separate self or selfishness/egocentricity. Many saints would echo this.
I was thankful for her explanations. I had come to understand that what I was taught was lacking something. I had already begun to examine the teaching about Jesus and was tending to go in the direction this lecture is pointing. I feel blessed for having listened this morning.
Maybe it was just me, but when i first read the gospels, i got the odd impression that the words of Jesus were incomplete. Some how i thought to myself, this can’t be everything he said.
Yes, I too had the sense we weren't getting the deeper teachings in mainstream Christianity. I was sure Jesus was teaching more, that he was a very enlightened mystic, and highly evolved spiritual entity incarnated to teach/help us too become enlightened. You don't teach calculus or physics to a first-grader! It makes sense to me that more spiritually advanced disciples who were ready to learn were given the oral/esoteric teachings that were not meant to be written down -- but someone did write at least some of these teachings. I do believe the Kabbalah (which means "received" tradition), the Jewish/Hebrew mystical tradition, goes all the way back to ancient times. The reason these mystical, esoteric teachings seem similar to Hindu, Buddhist, and Sufi (and other mystic traditions) is because all come down to inner wisdom/gnosis, mystical experience of the divine -- all point to the same spiritual Truth about who we really are!
@@TheWendybird123 Don't be tempted by "secret" knowledge, its simply a lie to get you away from the truth of the Gospel. That is exactly what the serpent told Eve. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.: John 14:6. Every other mythology is a by product of gen 6 and Enoch. Those were the false gods everyone was worshipping all over the globe with comparable traits and a macro origin story.
Is it the the Light itself that came into being or that our awareness of it comes into being, to becoming at one with it. How can something come into being that was always there, if not through our awareness of it? The question here is one of awareness.
Just wanted to thank you for posting these wonderful talks and discussions. Dr. Pagels presentations were remarkable, and the panelists and questioners were surprisingly trenchant and thoughtful in their responses. Watching these videos was not only thought-provoking, but it also lifted my spirits!
It's been years since I first delved into The New Testament especially. Since that time I've maintained a relationship with the God of my understanding and eventually learning that I must be in the proper frame of mind to think about how to interpret and learn from that God. I have found and have developed an understanding of a peaceful mind. This is the same peaceful mind that Buddha speaks of as Nirvana. Since It is only when my mind is at peace that I'm able to have a sense of communication with God. Over time I have learned that through/within a peaceful mind, all things are possible. In fact, from peace, or while at peace I find the source of a creative mind and answers to life's questions and/or the source of all creation personally and as such extending out into the world. Peace is the source or beginning of creation. Finally, as Professor Pagels makes multiple references I can very neatly substitute "Peace" in place of every attempted description of the holy spirit, heaven, relationship with God and so on. In all of the New Testament and now these new secret books we are attempting to define an important relationship with Peace. The search, teachings, metaphors, references and description are all attempts to define Peace. In fact, if ever one were able to follow every law of the Old Testiment - that man would know Peace and live in Peace. There was only one to fulfill every law of the old testiment. Next, Jesus Christ showed us all how to live in Peace. Throughout the New Testament Peace is referenced many times. The Holy Instant is Peace. The eternal moment is Peace. I live for these Peaceful moments in everything i do.
Post script: For many centuries the Bible has been all about teaching how to live a Peaceful existance. Unfortunately there are those who seek to confuse Peace.
Who in the world tells you what you can or can't read one person tells you you can't read something and send me that book is deems not part of the Canon. That is some strange back sided thinking
Yes i think many people gloss over the fact that the bible mentions other texts outside of what made it into the official canon. The problem is nobody knows if the books like the book of Enoch that are sold today are the original story referenced by the bible or written by people who saw the reference and just wrote a whole new book based off their imagination of what they thought may be in it
you need to see with spiritual eyes and ears this can only be done with the holy sprit being in your heart to have this happen you must learn to never lie about anything this how to begin to be rightous enough for the hol;y spirit to enter this will guide you through your trials into when you enter into a light that is heaven stretched over earth that men just dont see why do none of these so called teachers understand and why listen to someone that cant find it themselfs
@@MOTIVATIONBYDAR Most of the books were not a part of the OT. They were texts that were used sometimes to add to Jewish history but never considered to be influenced by God. They were never in any Holy book.
Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10, Verse 8 "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts" Very interesting. This is an incredibly insightful talk and a strong argument for the power and wisdom of a great historical figure. Sometimes one must read between the lines. One more thing. As one who was schooled by a great Yogic teacher, Jesus would be considered an Avatar. But in first century Palestine there were no reference points for someone like him. Except for the greatest Hebrew prophets, He was not the Jewish Messiah not was he the world's Messiah for there is no such thing, but the schism of the Jews not accepting him as such muddied the waters badly. The religion that arose, sadly, was a terrible distortion weird blend of some of his public teachings and Hellenized Paganism. It has taken 2000 years to get it right. 300 years ago we all have been killed. for having beliefs like this.
@@Shane-hp2mv That's what Ktishna said in the Gita. What is interesting is Krishna speaks AS what Jesus called "the Father", not as anointed messenger.
@@kenkaplan3654 The newest dying rising god. Compare and contrast dying rising God's with a Jesus and see where ideas of him come from. He did not exist.
When the idea that the divinity is within you comes from experiencing it spiritually, it is liberating. When it is just an idea believed in but not experienced, it becomes dangerous.
I think s key to the teachings in Thomas as well as Yeshua's teachings at all levels is when he reveals as if it's something kept secret that we are all gods. Perhaps we are within us capable of being gods if we understand through the teaching we are capable of being gods. It is when we know this of ourselves that will be in awe and then amazed. And it is as gods we begin to expand heaven within us.
God [is] spirit - Jhn 4:24 The secret (mystḗrion) is direct gnosis of spirit/pneuma. Secret is not unknowable. Rather, it is what is known by gnosis. Those espoused to the flesh have no search capacity.
Yes, and this is what Jesus/Yeshua is pointing to when he explains to Nicodemus that he must be born again of the spirit. It's a shift in perception/awareness to see and experience the Kingdom here and now that is unseen around us (or in our midst) and within us. And gnosis or the pearl is what he referred to when he encouraged us to "seek and you will find" and admonished us to not "cast pearls before swine" -- don't try to teach gnosis/wisdom/the mysteries of the Kingdom to those who are not spiritually mature. The hints about Jesus' secret esoteric teachings are right there in plain sight in the four canonical gospels.
There is something magical about 11:11. "These are the secret words which Jesus the Living One spoke and which his disciple [Didymus] Judas Thomas wrote down. And he said whoever finds the meaning of these words will not die." Could there be a relationship between Jesus as the "Living One" and one John the Baptist referred to as the Great Life? Mandaean Book of John, chapter 11 speaks of this time ... our time. Specifically? I believe it addresses this year.
The time has came and passed everytime you walk past a homeless person a drug addict and snuff up your nose. You missed it because class separation has made you blind
@@christopherjordan9707 Hahahahahahaha!!!!! That was a teaching for the few, the rich, the selfish. He certainly didn't give everyone the same instructions. I have given away quite a bit, but never all, And I have always been poor to begin with, so it wouldn't have been that hard. But still, I didn't.
Yeshua repeats the idea in this "gospel" that you don't patch old clothes with a new patch or put old wine in new wineskins. He also reprimands the disciples for quoting the prophets to establish who he is and says that his words should stand on their own. After two thousand years of intolerance and misrepresentation of Yeshua perhaps it is time to take him at his word and put what he is saying against the lessons of history and the philosophers and sages whose wisdom and clear-thinking has stood the passage of time and enlightened us. We are starting with a clean sheet in evaluating Yeshua.
Yeshua never existed. Find one original manuscript within 70 years of Jesus death that has that name. Not paleographry dated either. Many are Egyotian paparyus from the date with writings from a later period. He would have spoken Aramaic and not Coine greek
@@AdonaiZedek I'm of the opinion Yeshu/Yeshua existed but Paul of Tarsus and the Canonical Gospel writers made him into a different person entirely, one who never existed.
We are fractals of the source. We are the Universe manifest figuring itself out. Consciousness is fundamental. Evolution is is how it is reducing its entropy.
@@robinharwood5044 Part of all that is . Indevisable from the whole . We are part of everything and everything is a part of us . It is , and we are ! Hope that clears it up . LMAO
*Professor Elaine Pagels was supposed to be brave enough to tell that "Acta Thomae" (Acts of Thomas) used to be read in Churches along with other Gospels but he was Pope Gelasius who condemned it in year 495 CE. He condemned it because Acta Thomae denies hoax of Virgin Birth, and Acta Thomae also tells that even after many years of Incidence of Cross; Jesus along with Thomas was present in Taxila (Pakistan) attending marriage party of daughter of King of Taxila. This made clear that Jesus did not die on the Cross, as is also given in Quran 4:157. Statues of Jesus and his son Eli-kim still exist in Taxila-Museum*
I'll bet those statues had the likeness of someone recognisably Jewish instead of looking like our traditional images of Jesus. Can they be viewed on the web?
@@edwardmiessner6502 Yes: you can view those in our this page " *Best scholarly page on the life of Jesus.* A Treasure for the Students of Comparative religion.
Perhaps next time you can setup a camera that is adjusted to make the slides nicely visible. Then with some editing in post to nicely intercut them during the whole lecture. Great stuff!
As an atheist, my favorite gospel. No wonder early Christian Church rejected it as heretical. Makes too much sense. Too much self reflection, too many questions. Contrary to Paul's gospel of obedient blind faith.
First time i listened Mrs Pagels,may be the kingdom details comes from Fikino Poimandres manuscript and can be the exact words of Trismegistus,very nicely done conference looks like i have to watch all her works and read❤
Inasmuch as I do not know of Professor Simon Gathercole's work, I would suggest that rather than labelling the Gospel of Thomas inferior, it is interior. It cannot be understood from without, without being understood from within. Then to consider those anomalies so much a part of its overall design none designated a separate but part of the whole, in light of any perceived contradictions to be found within the Gospel of Thomas - or within those gospels which form the New Testament - if we as a people are the sum total of our contradictions, as is Life and as is Love itself, then so too are the Gospels the sum total of their contradictions; all of them! It is that each in some way reflect the other, being a part of the one vibration wholly innocent within whose innocence is our holiness to be found, no thought however diverse excluded. Where I believe everything is born of the one vibration, I would like to offer the following in keeping with Love the source of Life whose will is that we should know it: In the beginning there was a vibration, and this vibration had such energy to it, that through it all things were formed and would be found. Much akin to an idea or an opinion that occurs suddenly in the mind without thinking, yet corresponding to some distinct entity essential in feature to what it was, this vibration went by a name. Its name was Thought and Love was its only way of thinking. And such was Love's thinking within Thought, that it had all the strength and vitality that was needed to sustain to the fullest degree, every physical and mental activity required to make things whole, yet not entirely holy save but one much needed thing. Although Thought asked of Love to lend to it its voice, Love at first said nothing but waited, because that is what Love does; it waits. Thought could see that Love was thinking, and it seemed to Thought that perhaps Love knew not quite what to say. And as Time passed by as it invariably does, Thought began to wonder why if Love was everything of meaning, it had no meaning to answer. Looking again to Love as Love thought not to look elsewhere, there was still nothing there, just as there is nothing more serenely still than Love as Peace it lends us, a thought our thinking has yet to truly know. Therefore, and as was Thought’s wont, it began to think again: "If Love answers not then it has no needs, as would Reason have it be that neither does Love ask for anything." As Love remained silent, and more silent even still, Thought looked about the seemingly empty space within which it had found itself vibrating, and where for Love as is Love's promise the premise of Hope (and Hope's premise Love's promise in Life) nothing is ever held not true. At that moment, and for but the briefest period of time beyond Time itself more singular than was any period that went before, Thought became so fully aware of something as fact to understand it clearly and without condition; the most beautiful relationships we can have with each other, they are centred in Love, and with nothing in between that anything is split in two. Once realised, Thought began to accommodate all thinking to this as so should you, and fears no longer entered the mind of man, since it was never part of Love's overall plan. Blessings!
She dances around the ideas. he doesnt want to give herself away. She knows he whole bible is fabricated. She is probably of the Rose Cross or something similar
@@Thumbs81 And it never will, until The Invisible Spirit of God, which is the highest Divine Consciousness reveal this to YOU! An intelligent person will never insult me, and you being a Fool Can't!!!
I have been fascinated with Elaine Pagel’s books for a very long time. She is my favorite writer about early Christianity. She knows how to make the subject dynamic and understandable.
@@unbroken1010 exactly what is it you disagree with ? People misunderstand Christ's message completely . Love God , and love your neighbor as yourself . Love your enemies too . To experience God , not to worship the messenger . Or burn witches . To give to the poor . To clothe the naked etc. I've met very few Christians. Wisdom is more than reciting bible quotes , or badgering people . With love alone we can understand Christ's message . No man is righteous, who has anger in his heart . Do you have anger in your heart ?
@@marvymarier8988 I have a simple problem with the masses of repenters and doomsayers demanding that there is one path to salvation. I have a huge problem with people I can't seem to function around the idea of a historical Christ vs a mythical Christ. And I will always have a problem with anybody trying to instill a message we are going to hell because you're not saved.
@J. C. yeah or at least explain to them but there's plenty of translator apps now a days. Thankfully nobody feels that way about Spanish soap operas ..😂 and I thought the American American ones for trash
I find the possibility that he taught publicly one way and privately another a very exciting and sense making thought. I have, just before watching this point, had an interesting affirmation through an ad that played - when people want to influence or teach they use visual aids because it helps to get their point across. Ties in with why Jesus always used parables and miracles when dealing with wider audiences. I hear so much of Lao Tzu and Buddha in the Gospel of Thomas. One has to be somewhere into inner exploration before these teachings have any meaningful substance for the listener, and the words become palpable. This talk is fascinating - we learn nothing when to do, see and hear it is easy. Nietzsche was a mystic who came to 'kill Orthodoxy', leaving the room empty for us to discover the Divine within us all. I understand so deeply my love of this man and the suffering that produced his great guidance away from everything we the people believed, incorrectly, to be true.
The gospel of Thomas matches a lot to Neil DeGrasse Tyson view of energy of the universe... we are all made of the same materials that makes the universe.
I don’t feel that you become God when you have moved from outside to inside spiritually but that you gain a responsibility, and a confidence and a completeness being one with that spirit and not all powerful as far as others but of one with that father spirit thru the knowledge from study of the teachings ......there is a comfort with the knowing.... an incite.....a true light that can shine, if you will, for others to follow, to gather that comfort, that confidence that God surrounds, protects and guides you.....which is how I feel in my relationship with God Father, God Son, God Spirit Thank you, Dr Pagels for this further enLIGHTening dissertation to add to my life study.... I am 80 yrs young, but old in my wisdom I believe... BTW my name is Gale Pagels Monterio ☺️
Absolutely my feeling. I'm so happy to find others with the same vision. I enjoy the words of Manly Hall - we are the atoms that make us up just as we are among the atoms that make up God. If all was created out of nothing but pure energy, there's no way to not be directly connected to God /all. I believe everything we can imagine and see is God. God speaks to us through every single event around us. When we listen to this voice/nature and follow or flow with its direction, we prosper.
Elaine has some great info to share, but she's hard to follow. She strikes me as being a little ADD...she starts developing a point, and then forgets what she was talking about and moves on. I haven't made it all the way through one of her lectures for this reason.
4 Gospels in the Canon, but many more outside the Canon. It seems very curious that there was so much religious literature produced about Jesus. The literature has several different points of view but what does it tell us that there was so much of it produced? I’m not looking for a religious answer to that question but an historical one.
I am not Christian, By Lambdin's Thomas Gospel I knew that Gospel is not different from the sudden enlightening teachings of Buddha's. So this one have read John's Gospel. All stories of John's Gospel are just the same teachings. So this one happily recommend world Christians would voluntalily regain the One and Same Spritual Body of their own eternal Life. Thanks every people. Forever be happy, Pagels.
The gospel of Thomas is nothing like the Gospel of John. It is not even close. You said Thomas was like Buddhism. Might be but the Gospel of John is about love and that love comes from Jesus and the cross.
@@bcalvert321 When people see, meet and be the I Self in their body, then they digest John's. There people shall be with Jesus'. In the beginning there was the word. They are that they are.
@@bcalvert321 When you are the Holy Spirit, then you awake the real Love, which is eternal One, Same. That is real I of Ben Calvert. As people are in their own dream, one also is in his own dream. When one dive into the sea's bottom, as Jonah had done. Then the one shall awake his Holy Spirit, which is eating Jesus', digesting John's and Thomas'. Have nice day.
@Darren Saying of the Messiah 30 from the gospel of Thomas found at Oxyrhynchus Egypt. Oldest version. "Where there are three they are without God. Where there is one I say I am there with you. Lift a stone and you will find me, split a piece of wood and I am there."
I am Catholic and l don't find it legalistic. Pope Benedict XVI says that Christian faith is first and foremost an encounter with the person of Jesus. Canon Law is simply a way of ensuring justice and equity within the Church thereby, to a greater or less degree, allowing people to grow personally in faith and also in Communion with Christ and each other in the (to use St Paul's language) Body of Christ.
00:51:50 Correction: in Orthodox Christianity, they emphasized that human were created in Divine and Likeness of God. Based on Book of Genesis. Human have this inner divine nature, just like Jesus Christ had shown us, that Human Nature and Divine Nature are united in harmony. Too bad, this emphasis had lost in other Christian Tradition (catholic and protestanism).
Sweet woman, very smart, excellent writer and long-suffering in her personal life. As a comic aside, Elaine can definitely walk and talk at the same time. Peripatetic scholar par excellence!!
@@moonlighth4515 Elaine suffered the tragic loss of her husband in a climbing accident and the death of an infant son through genetic and fatal disease . She went from heaven to hell. Does one ever stop suffering from such sorrow. Mrs Pagels is a person of great courage
When she was a TA probably told by her supervising professor..."now Elaine, to keep them engaged you've got to keep moving, just keep moving and their eyes will be on you"...
Perhaps because gender is “the body” not the soul, Jesus was saying if you come to God as your spiritual self, you should come as one integrated soul, not as the earthly man or woman.
“next whatt you need to know is who you are...” and also, who not to believe. The original deception was by the Serpent, whose legacy was picked up by religious legalists throughout history... including the religious authorities who confronted Jesus...to the Catholic Church and its controlling cabal...to Protestant preachings about scriptural infallibility. All the same. Our spiritual integrity must be maintained in the face of the eternal deceptive control by religion itself. I’ve written a book about this.
@@ChristopherCudworth "Protestant preaching's about scriptural infallibility." If the Bible is the inspired word of God then it is infallible. Saying otherwise is exactly what the serpent wants us to believe. The bible is the objective standard in which you judge and rebuke false doctrine. Has nothing to do with religion, but objective truth.
@@jsharp9735 its infallibility is no longer the issue. We know the originals do not exist. We know mistakes and errors were made. We know that false or selective interpretations corrupt its meaning. We know that Christianity as an institution has added or invented layers of belief (purgatory and hell itself…) as means to control the masses. And the existence of multiple translations makes the notion of infallibility a delicate farce. Your basic premise is popular but wrong.
What lots of people (even pastors) don't (yet) understand. God created us according to His own image and likeness. Godly. Mankind/the first Adam fell. The image of God in man got lost. That's why there is all this predicament on earth (selfishness, greed, lust, wars, sicknesses, death, etc). We are all born into that mess. For the fall of man a perfect atoning sacrifice had to be made.... that is what God did in Christ. With His own once and for all perefect sacrifice, He paid the debt for the fall of man for us, so we can be indwelled by His Spirit again and finally receive the divine life of the ages back, the first Adam let got of in the fall of man. An amazing act of grace and love by our creator. That is what you see happening in Christ's first disciples. They too healed all and walked in unselfish love. And yes.... that is still avaible today. The holy blood is in place, the Holy Spirit is here to give us understanding, power and transform us back to origin. Not to be debated about, but to be embraced and be-come. So: The Kingdom of God already came. Through Christ, in Spiritform, in those that understand. Hence the divine healing miracles we experience. God manifested in Christ to give us back the divine life mankind lost in the fall of Adam. Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after in Gen 1. The image we lost in the fall of man. The image that can be freely restored by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit working IN us. What a plan. What a solution. What a love. What a God. Jesus is amazing. It is the ultimate conclusion of the word and plan of God. God came full circle. He Himself stooped down from glory to restore us back to original created value: Christlikeness. Walking in divine healing power and unselfish love. Jesus, born of the Spirit of God, filled with the spirit of God. The "Son" of God, the incarnated word, God in the flesh. For three years He healed all, raised the dead, casted out demons, controlled nature, spoke pure divine truth. He said: "Follow Me. If you see Me, you see the Father. The Father and I are one. The glory I have IN My Father, I give to you. It pleases the Father to give you His Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature. I will send Holy Spirit, the same as Me, He will be IN you, guide you into truth and give you explosive power. The same miracles i do, you will do too, because you will understand that the Father is IN Me and I am IN you. Freely I give you My Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, freely I give, freely share" Etc, etc, etc. I have experienced thousands of beautifull healing miracles through the power of Holy Spirit IN me already. Broken bones, cancers, covid, all kinds of infirmities healed in seconds. Demons manifesting and casted out by a simple "get out, in Jesus name". Jesus. De name above all names. In Him all power and wisdom is sourced and.... He calls us one with Him. God in man and man in God again. C'mon Jesus!! So.... again: God stooped down IN Christ to restore us back to Gen 1:27 were He said: "Let us make man according to our image and likeness and let them have authority.....": walk as Christ. Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after and being restored to by His atoning blood for the fall of man and indwelling Holy Spirit. You are free to receive this original divine life of the ages by Holy Spirit of Christ/God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. Read the Gospel of John and fall in love with your creator. You are not made for the fall of man and its effects, but for the image/glory of God and to walk like Christ. Holy Spirit is the guide and transforming power that will get you there. Amazing grace. A big leap in faith can be made when we start realizing we are already IN Christ, IN the last Adam. Free from the fall! Loved! Growing into awareness of our new (yet old) godly identity. Changing by Holy Spirit. The most fullfilled life ever. Paul healed all on Malta. He understood and wrote: "As in the first Adam ALL died (lost the divine nature), so also ALL were made alive IN Christ to walk in Zoë (= divine life) again". "IN Christ (the last Adam) we are co-cruisified (dead to the fall and its effects), co-raised (justified/made righteousness, holy, blameless, above reproach), co-seated (one with Him)" "The fullness of deity dwells in Christ and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM, who is the head of every principality and power". So.... thank you Jesus! Thank you for redeeming me from the fall of man. Thank you for your Holy Spirit that makes this new (yet old) divine life come alive in me. You are amazing! In the shadow of Peter the sick healed... He understood too and wrote: "By Gods power (Holy Spirit) and knowing Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature and have escaped the fall of man". The divine life of the ages has been returned to us by Jesus once and for all perfect atoning sacrifice for the debt of the fall of man and His indwelling Holy Spirit in us. Jesus/God is amazing!!! Ask Him to give you revelation and change you to the way it was before the fall of man: Christlikeness. He will do so. For it is written: "the Spirit brings forth after His own kind". "I have come to give you Zoë (divine life) in abundance...."
Marvelous! When somebody can speak off the cuff for an hour on something she knows and understands, you know you've found a real teacher and someone who loves what she's talking about. What great insight! Thank you!
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100%. Recently stumbled across Pagels, and she is able to reveal what I've been looking for to support the mis treatment of those who choose for themselves, rather than by an institution.
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When say trust in educated guessers deceivers of self and others injust self and others unknown exactly void in understand unknown self proclaimed people proclaimed for what false prophet all could proclaim
My mother used to think there was more to the Bible than what was taught at our church. She said many things didn't make sense, there were conflicts, etc. I wish she were alive today, she would love these, alternative views.
In her final days, she bought the 'Lost Books of the Bible" but, she didn't read it as she was in the process of passing over. I have the book, now
I pray to your mom all the time because she's the way, the, truth and the life
It seems that the Bible does not capture Jesus' real teaching on salvation - the Love Path, and we have the Pauline substitute!
That’s beautiful, and so true. She really had “eyes to see and ears to hear.” You honor her with this comment and by digging into what she was talking about.
@@sjr7822 The problem of thinking the whole world revolves around Christianity. The religion of the last one percent of a human history of 200,000 years. Much came before Christianity and where Christianity got it's ideas. Creation stories, dying rising God's, etc...
My mother and father thought the same as your mother. I have always known at the back of my mind that there was much more to the meanings of Jesus words, like many of us, I think that the information was kept secret because of unscrupulous people who could have used the knowledge to control others. Now,those unscrupulous people are busy controlling others by political means and that’s okay because this knowledge is not for them. I look forward to sharing eternity with you all if blessed by the Precious Lord. ❤❤
Elaine's energy and enthusiasm in her studies is infectious. Pleasure to watch someone so engaged
she get turnt around the 48 min mark. she was just getting warmed up before then
Who the hell you think you are . A bunch of fools speaking saying nothing impressing others pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly void in know unknown exactly deceiving even self unknown to even self refuse to question any play educated guesser pretenders of understanding question none talk out arrogant jackass unknown to even self returned to one true and just known self reborn two became one in one whole in one whole in one returned to the father walked the golden Path reborn 3 in one whole in one whole in one known self reborn walked threw door reborn 3 is the golden age of one whole in one known to the father healed in the Holy Spirit in one whole in one perfect known self reborn two became one the day you one you became two divided split a piece of wood and I AM there . If make two into one heal in the Holy Spirit in one self one against two two against three three against two two against three . Three in one walk threw door reborn on the golden Path to the father 369 returned to beginings without ends in one whole in one whole in one whole in one many and five stand as one known before he was born undeniably proclaimed three times over before he was born three times three times over out womb and in man born the living Son of Man won't taste death . And five stand as one known to the ALL seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one . Who the hell you pretending to what the hell you call it best be done playing prophets sure as hell false prophets if keep it up question none pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly unknown j
Hell no
What the hell wrong with people ? If you don't have Thoth's curse pathological lying ego arrogant masters in Deceiving self guess you know figured it out positive you guess you know self proclaimed people proclaimed proves only unknown unproclaimed deniable false prophets if anything best know it
did you ever think it was rejected because it tells his followers they find the beginning in themselves , and not the church
These people while actively bringing invaluable insights of history into view, don’t care about the why, only the what and the how. This is academic not spiritual. But yes my friend, it was rejected because it took the power from the priesthood and put it in the hands of the people. To seek the experience God through yourself rather than require the church to dispense it to you was considered heresy.
canon gospels were the oldest, heretic were written later and not reliable.
@@mareklame8589 I suppose you’d never be interested in reading the gospels found at nag hammadi? Have you ever asked yourself what you’d believe in if you were alone in the world and had no one to tell you what to believe? Do you think it would be wrong? For you to not have a chance to experience any gospels whatsoever, do you think that would lead you to hell? Without being given the thing that everyone is suppose to find if they want to be saved. Trust me the things you’d come up with by yourself about life are much more aligned to the notions of the apocrypha and the real words of Jesus the Christ, not the canon. The canon was curated by a group of ambitious power hungry sexist judgmental bigots, and to this day the Roman church has contaminated the word of Jesus by people defending “canon” that is such a stupid word in the first place. Authoritative? Wow. “I like your Christ, I don’t like your Christians, your Christians are not like your Christ” - Gandhi.
@@mareklame8589 the earliest of which being at least 60 years after the DOC.... nobody who had ever met yeshua had written anything about him.
@@mareklame8589
Wow you must have been there.
One of the things that kind of blows my mind, as a former evangelical, is that the versions of Christianity that became mainstream is solely because they were the most authoritarian ones. Adopted by the main authorities of their time. This says nothing about their claim to be the "one".
Thanx. This can be said about all religions.
@geoattoronto
0 seconds ago
It seems that the Bible does not capture Jesus' real teaching on salvation - the Love Path, and we have the Pauline substitute!
@@francoisjacquin1378 What is the foundation of Buddhism in four words? You don't know.
@@francoisjacquin1378 four Noble truths. The foundation of Buddhism. Every Buddhist knows this.
@@francoisjacquin1378 Discuss the eightfold path. Esp concentration and wisdom. Eightfold path is the last of the four Noble truths.
Starts 7:13
Thanks, two introductions seemed a bit much!
Perhaps my favorite lecture by Elaine Pagels. The Gospel of Thomas's claim that "the kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it," would revolutionize how we read and understand the New Testament, not to mention how we practice Christianity. "It's not about faith...it's about knowing....who you are....--that created in the image, we too are children of the Father, intrinsically related to the divine....when you come to know who you are really, on the level of the heart, you come to know God as the source of your being."
Well said , friend .
There might be hope for humanity after all .
Why would you believe in the so-called Thomas gospel and not those written a hundred years closer to when Jesus lived. Jesus said we are to have faith in Him. He told the real Thomas how much better it will be for those that never saw Him to believe than those that knew Jesus. We are a child of God. We are not God's. We have life because God the creator made it so.
@@marvymarier8988 The hope for humanity is only through Jesus.
@@bcalvert321
Which God, Abraxas or Ialdaboath/Yaweh
@@Instramark Since you haven't a clue about anything, it is Yahweh. I guess those others are kind of new-age gods you worship.
Thanks for sharing this astounding video! I await the world stage, once it is done being made...ready.
I love Eileen pagels she is true speaker and comes from her heart ❤️ as she writes. She's such a great teacher.
My blessings and prayers go out to you
Thank you Dr pagels for your wonderful
Work for the truth.
Very good ! Through my walk, I have had several visions & 2 angel visitations. I was raised in a church who did Not believe in these things whatsoever. So I didn't either. But they happened anyway--especially after I told God from my gut "I just want to know the Truth--No Matter, what it is ".. I am old now & God has insisted all through my walk to watch out for "ego", continuously, but Not said in a mean or critical way--but there were so many reminders given to me from Him that I knew that it was very very important. I am glad that you brought the "ego" up & how it can hurt us & actually turn into a mental illness. I thank God that I know who He is and I know who I am and can enjoy the Spiritual benefits --without the ego. I believe that there are many like me and in no way special.
Beautifully said. And it is true, there are many of us who connect to the Divine Light and Love. Just as the teaching of Jesus and other teachings say, it is our natural right, this is who we are but have forgotten. This connection doesn't make anyone especial, but it does take some honesty with oneself, an open heart and mind and at least minimally disciplined living. Ego inflation is indeed the most dangerous trap on any spiritual journey, and it can indeed lead to a mental disorder.
you talked to god really
Elaine Pagels is the best in her field. She is simply wonderful.
What an Incredible Woman, wow... Elaine Pagels, thank you SO MUCH for your work❤ We love you ❤
There are a lot of answers to so many questions here, and we need to study this information carefully and to understand why it was withheld from the world. Thankfully, there were those who knew that we would need the hidden books in time. I bless those who laid down their lives to protect and preserve the books as they gave their lives for our precious Saviour. Thank you Elaine Pagels for your gentle but powerful presentation. ❤
The Bible mentions something about hiding scripture that will be found when needed:
Daniel 12:4 "But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.”
The Nag Hammadi library seems like what Daniel 12:4 mentioned too. Were the monks who buried those scriptures inspired by Daniel 12:4?
I read her books, need more of this type of exploration of truth, getting beyond dogma. You might be branded a nut, but its better than sleepwalking
We have seven senses. Even waxing sentimental, the output is generally beneficient
The multiverse is a bit larger than names.
The Dao which can be named is not the eternal Dao...
You know all that...so...
Thanks for checking in
Well we have an encoded anomaly here
Maybe DNA will help.
Till then cheers
Magic is a strange law.
Its ineffable.
Words cannot cover the laws of it
I am kind of busy.
As I really cannot say that your words, at a glance are endearing, anymore than to caption each particular thought with my name foremost, this really cannot keep my attention as my intent is vested elsewhere; certainly not THIS dialog. It never reached the stage of familiarity or conversation, so peership is out, too.
I've read everything she has written beginning with the Gnostic Gospels. She has a remarkable ability to explain complicated and pretty dry subjects in a way that even I, who is not a Bible scholar, can understand them. Thank you Dr. Pagels.
On a totally separate note, there is a relatively well done movie loosely based on the idea of a rediscovered revolutionary gospel that must be supressed. It's pretty entertaining. I think it's called Stigmata.
Thank you for sharing. I will read the book.
If you love Elaine Pagels books, be futher enlightened with gnosticism of Israel and Christ.
Stigmata is dark...no thanks
Well circle is wide. Or not. Choosing is..... thing??
What about Jesus’ younger chinese brother Hong Xiuquan?
The kingdom, the light, and the church are one until it is not. I recall her excitement introducing Gnostics. It is rather refreshing to see her after having studied those teachings. She is enlightened and lovely.
Interesting that you are in a position to judge whether and when she is/was enlightened. She sounds the same now as she did hen and is stills saying the same things.
@@fancynancylucilleget a life
Thank you so much for bringing the revelation of the mystery of the Kingdom to light. I would love that you travel to Uganda and five this conference as well.
God bless you
I grew up from infancy in the Reformed Church of America, South Holland, Illinois version. Which makes stumbling into this discussion even more interesting than otherwise. I entered college at the time when the war in Vietnam was in its strongest rage. And realized that I am a conscientious objector. A stance my pastor made clear was not congruent with with my upbringing. I eventually found a home among
Quakers. And have come to believe that, by accident or design, George Fox, in 1640, intuited some of what we find in the Gospel of Thomas. Guidence by Devine Light, among other things. [So, who is in charge of such coincidences?]
Excellent question.
The truth of God is not determined by "intuiting"
I thank Elaina Pagels for her study of the Gnosti Gospel and her own story, Why Religion. Wonderful Wonderful scholar. Her studies have guided my heart to dig deeper. I have found the Light that will dwell in my heart forever.
Really love this speaker. I have enjoyed some of her lectures before. Always lots of food for thought.
Yes
Powerful!! So glad I stumbled over this.
"I've search for me, but only found God, I've search for God, but only found me". Rumi. Took "me" three years. Brothers and sisters please "do it", search for our true identity within. God, the Source, loves you all, because you are "it"."it" lives beyond the mind, in the silence and in "nothing", being nothing, it is all there is Unconditional LOVE.to "you" all.
Please say more
"Heaven is within your midst" or "You're already enlightened, but you don't know it."
I'm studing nde, and there are things that connect with what she has to say. We are children of the Source and we never die. We are here to learn and then return to the Source.
"To find God look inward." No wonder churches don't like this. It affects their business model.
And completely against what Jesus said hmmmmmm
@@aslikethesonI don’t know if you’ve read what Jesus said but he plainly said this!
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17 verse 20-21
@@lordhughes7690 Also the psalms say god has wings . Hermeneutics learn it use it love it
The whole world does not revolve around Christianity or monotheism.
@@brp5497 Lol you assume a lot .
I wish I could sit on the floor at her feet and listen to her speak for a week. I have always felt as if the teachings of the church were not complete and at times, somewhat inaccurate. Many of the unspoken truths I have felt all my life (now 60 years old) were spoken here in this video by Dr. Pagels Other truths I have always felf were spoken By Dr. Michael Heiser and by Dr Stephen Meyer.
It is difficult for me to read due to blindness, so I find these video discussions very helpful. Thank you, thank you and thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Alan Watts and Joseph Campbell are also great 20th century interpreters of these teachings.
She did an excellent job. I can easily see how she makes some of the more orthodox and fundamentalist scholars go bonkers! i felt like she was apporachable and mostly interested in sharing her knowledge moreso than pushing it onto anybody. Very refreshing approach coming from a classically trained scholar. I like her. She is good. 👍
Her books are awesome! Very readable and interesting.
She would get schooled on a debate.
Its very profound.... Kingdom is not outside & is not in matter! Beginning before beginning is the I AM that I AM!
Scholarship can only take you so far. Spirituality is beyond scholarship. The esoteric teachings of sufi, Rumi, kabir, Miester Eckhart, the Rishi & Masters of the East the Hindus & Buddhist can begin the understanding of the mustard seed & its Here & Now in ourselves. Buddhas last sermon 'Be the Light to yourself' or Be your own Light.
Jesus is the only TRUE Light!!!
@@kennyhalperin5302 And it is THAT narrow-minded (and brainwashed) Idealolgy that is destroying Humanity, and by consequence, the Planet. Read & Learn & Open Your Mind: EVERY culture 'believes' that they have the only true religion; Christianity (which Christ never created--he was a Jew all his life) is not original in this manner.
This is one of my favorite videos. It explains a lot of what I'm going through. There is a spot where she said some scholars believe that Jesus could never read or write, but I think he can at least read Because you read from the Scrolls in the synagogue announcing the beginning of his ministry
Who the hell you think you are . A bunch of fools speaking saying nothing impressing others pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly void in know unknown exactly deceiving even self unknown to even self refuse to question any play educated guesser pretenders of understanding question none talk out arrogant jackass unknown to even self returned to one true and just known self reborn two became one in one whole in one whole in one returned to the father walked the golden Path reborn 3 in one whole in one whole in one known self reborn walked threw door reborn 3 is the golden age of one whole in one known to the father healed in the Holy Spirit in one whole in one perfect known self reborn two became one the day you one you became two divided split a piece of wood and I AM there . If make two into one heal in the Holy Spirit in one self one against two two against three three against two two against three . Three in one walk threw door reborn on the golden Path to the father 369 returned to beginings without ends in one whole in one whole in one whole in one many and five stand as one known before he was born undeniably proclaimed three times over before he was born three times three times over out womb and in man born the living Son of Man won't taste death . And five stand as one known to the ALL seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one . Who the hell you pretending to what the hell you call it best be done playing prophets sure as hell false prophets if keep it up question none pretend to understand guess you know deceiving self exactly unknown j
Hell no
I don't think any of the prophets could read or write but they all could "recite."
@@GnosticCushite is no debate who said pretend to understand guess you know question none false prophets at the end of the age question none pretend to figure it out is no game
@@GnosticCushite none even know what trust in God we trust in God means can't even understand we the people let alone play true and just known ears both ears hear married the father eyes see known to the true virgin mother creator understanding of what see and hear seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one
@@GnosticCushite popes game over real soon
She says that the Coptic monks translated the Gospel of Thomas "carefully" into Coptic. I would cut her some slack since she is speaking half extemporaneously, but I would quibble that we cannot be sure the translators translated carefully in all textual instances. For example, a second or third century Greek fragment of Thomas says that there are multiple ones, apparently meaning people, whereas the fourth century Coptic says there are multiple gods. Was that a translation of what the Greek manuscript that the Coptic monk translated actually said, or was that a careless mistranslation? We don't know, but it leaves open the possibility that the Coptic text found at Nag Hamadi, Egypt was not the best version of Thomas, just the only full version that has become available to us.
I am just reading: Adam, Eve and the snake….by her and am impressed! Brilliant writer, I am glad I finally discovered her and also this channel, where I can listen to this great researcher, born the same year like me.
why does it matter what year she was born in?
After 8 decades of life to still be a teacher through writing, or a learner through reading of such hefty scholarship is simply wonderful. Happy Birthday to both in 2023 🍰👏📚💡
At about 50 minutes Elaine goes into the “knowing” of who “you” are.
This is experienced by stilling the mind. Remember, “be still and know that I am God” refers to stillness of the mind. The statements in the gnostic gospels could just as well have been said by a Buddhist who has stilled there mind to the level of what they call the 4th Jhana, also by a Hindu who had stilled the mind to the level of what they call nirvikalpa samadhi.
When the mind stops, the ego stops completely, you will directly experience unity with God, that you can know as a fact without any doubt whatsoever, the idea of doubt has no place in this direct experience.
Pray without ceasing 🙏
Elaine is wonderful!
Definitely don't throw them out. They're very accurate and profound.
One must know oneself. It gives one the paradigm, the template, needed to properly evaluate what is of the light. It begins with know oneself through meditation, meditation that opens one to insights and wisdom.
Knowing within, one is easily able to corroborate what is true, and one is able to ascertain the meaning of secret teachings.
Everything spiritual begins within oneself. One must draw from the inner well of wisdom through meditation.
Regarding the verse that states that if I have it within me, it will save me, if not, it will kill me, I would like to say this:
What one needs within to be saved is divine knowledge, the fruit of meditation.
If one is lacking this, he is in darkness, and his darkness will kill him, figuratively, symbolically.
And also regarding making the two one, male and female, evoking Genesis. There should be no differences, no partiality, no division. All is one.
As far as making her male, the female is associated with the flesh by her very nature of bearing children. This was associated with sin. To be male was about separation from the world, renunciation of the world, guarding against the sinful proclivities of the flesh.
Again, all is richly figurative and symbolic in understanding the mystical. Words are always pointing to something deeper.
Jesus is an archetype of one who is successful in realizing his Divine Essence. It makes John's verses make more sense. No one can attain the Father except through me --- we are that me. Look within through meditation. That's the fundamental and operative means to ascend or evolve spiritually. This is the teaching of all Scripture, of all wisdom writings, purify yourself from within.
Religions are corrupt because they pervert Scripture and teach righteousness through the outward. Truly, God does not care about whom you lie with, how long your hair should be, what you eat, or anything else external. Jesus said, what is outside a man does not defile him, it is what proceeds out of the heart that defiles him. He also said, clean the INSIDE of the cup.
So no, the gnostic texts should indeed not be thrown out. They are repositories of divine wisdom, which can be known only through meditation. The true repository of wisdom is within us!
The gnostic gospels were only thrown out because the Catholic Church was hunting these gnostics down and killing them. They we’re running and hiding for their lives and hiding their texts so as not to be caught with them. Possibly hiding them temporarily and meaning to come back for them but never made it back to them. 🤷🏼♀️ my personal belief.
It’s a process of self-realisation to find the kingdom of God. No one can teach it. It’s always there within and without. You have to experience it.
Self realisation?! Have you not read the Scriptures? The kingdom of heaven is a body of believers, a community; there's no 'self' in it. God is God and we are not. Please forgive my sharpness, but there is no salvation for a wretched human soul in self realisation. God bless you.
@@aletheuo475 God wants us to live with him, not separated from him. Until one realizes that this, indeed, is one's deepest fulfillment of self -> self realization, there is no hope of refusing any mortal sin. The wish to be near god is what makes us whole and free. And through Jesus we know we can attain this, because god's presence near us will not harm us anymore. We are free from the kind of sin that separates us from god, Jesus died for us. What we have to do now is to live according to Jesus' example. In the kingdom of god, that is within us and around us, if we choose.
@@stephanieiv1163 Yeah fine. I agree that the process of sanctification allows the believer to become more truly himself. My dispute is with the self-centredness that so many preachers use to make their messages more popular. I find that so many people use mystical New Age type language with a focus on self-fulfilment and growth because the real gospel sounds too old fashioned or offensive. 'No one can teach it. It's always there within and without'. This is mysticism. Although the gospel indeed must be experienced personally, it can be taught.
@@aletheuo475 There is a kosmos of difference between small 's' self and capital 'S' self.
St Paul spake about the Self when he said "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" or " “put away the old self of your former way of life, corrupted through deceitful desires, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new self, created in God’s way in righteousness and holiness of truth.”
That is the realization of Self. It has nothing to do with small/false/separate self or selfishness/egocentricity.
Many saints would echo this.
My faith says that we are born basically good with wisdom and compassion.
I was thankful for her explanations. I had come to understand that what I was taught was lacking something.
I had already begun to examine the teaching about Jesus and was tending to go in the direction this lecture is pointing.
I feel blessed for having listened this morning.
Maybe it was just me, but when i first read the gospels, i got the odd impression that the words of Jesus were incomplete. Some how i thought to myself, this can’t be everything he said.
Same
@@puppies4eva788 Why did you thin that ? What could of been missing in your mind ?
Yes, I too had the sense we weren't getting the deeper teachings in mainstream Christianity. I was sure Jesus was teaching more, that he was a very enlightened mystic, and highly evolved spiritual entity incarnated to teach/help us too become enlightened. You don't teach calculus or physics to a first-grader! It makes sense to me that more spiritually advanced disciples who were ready to learn were given the oral/esoteric teachings that were not meant to be written down -- but someone did write at least some of these teachings. I do believe the Kabbalah (which means "received" tradition), the Jewish/Hebrew mystical tradition, goes all the way back to ancient times. The reason these mystical, esoteric teachings seem similar to Hindu, Buddhist, and Sufi (and other mystic traditions) is because all come down to inner wisdom/gnosis, mystical experience of the divine -- all point to the same spiritual Truth about who we really are!
@@TheWendybird123 Don't be tempted by "secret" knowledge, its simply a lie to get you away from the truth of the Gospel. That is exactly what the serpent told Eve. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.: John 14:6. Every other mythology is a by product of gen 6 and Enoch. Those were the false gods everyone was worshipping all over the globe with comparable traits and a macro origin story.
Is it the the Light itself that came into being or that our awareness of it comes into being, to becoming at one with it. How can something come into being that was always there, if not through our awareness of it? The question here is one of awareness.
Just wanted to thank you for posting these wonderful talks and discussions. Dr. Pagels presentations were remarkable, and the panelists and questioners were surprisingly trenchant and thoughtful in their responses. Watching these videos was not only thought-provoking, but it also lifted my spirits!
It's been years since I first delved into The New Testament especially. Since that time I've maintained a relationship with the God of my understanding and eventually learning that I must be in the proper frame of mind to think about how to interpret and learn from that God.
I have found and have developed an understanding of a peaceful mind. This is the same peaceful mind that Buddha speaks of as Nirvana.
Since It is only when my mind is at peace that I'm able to have a sense of communication with God. Over time I have learned that through/within a peaceful mind, all things are possible. In fact, from peace, or while at peace I find the source of a creative mind and answers to life's questions and/or the source of all creation personally and as such extending out into the world.
Peace is the source or beginning of creation.
Finally, as Professor Pagels makes multiple references I can very neatly substitute "Peace" in place of every attempted description of the holy spirit, heaven, relationship with God and so on. In all of the New Testament and now these new secret books we are attempting to define an important relationship with Peace. The search, teachings, metaphors, references and description are all attempts to define Peace.
In fact, if ever one were able to follow every law of the Old Testiment - that man would know Peace and live in Peace.
There was only one to fulfill every law of the old testiment. Next, Jesus Christ showed us all how to live in Peace. Throughout the New Testament Peace is referenced many times. The Holy Instant is Peace. The eternal moment is Peace. I live for these Peaceful moments in everything i do.
Post script: For many centuries the Bible has been all about teaching how to live a Peaceful existance.
Unfortunately there are those who seek to confuse Peace.
Philippians 4:7 transcends “understanding “ . So you feel God more than you understand him/her. Tada
Even Messiah spoke(references) of other books like Enoch, Jesher & Jubilee. If he can speak about it then. Then we can read it
Who in the world tells you what you can or can't read one person tells you you can't read something and send me that book is deems not part of the Canon. That is some strange back sided thinking
Yes i think many people gloss over the fact that the bible mentions other texts outside of what made it into the official canon.
The problem is nobody knows if the books like the book of Enoch that are sold today are the original story referenced by the bible or written by people who saw the reference and just wrote a whole new book based off their imagination of what they thought may be in it
you need to see with spiritual eyes and ears this can only be done with the holy sprit being in your heart to have this happen you must learn to never lie about anything this how to begin to be rightous enough for the hol;y spirit to enter this will guide you through your trials into when you enter into a light that is heaven stretched over earth that men just dont see why do none of these so called teachers understand and why listen to someone that cant find it themselfs
@@MOTIVATIONBYDAR Most of the books were not a part of the OT. They were texts that were used sometimes to add to Jewish history but never considered to be influenced by God. They were never in any Holy book.
@Darren Oh, so now that you really "know" you're no longer a "gnostic", but when you didn't you were. WAKE UP.
So informative! And so passionate! Wonderful! 🙏
Bhagavad Gita
Chapter 10, Verse 8
"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts"
Very interesting. This is an incredibly insightful talk and a strong argument for the power and wisdom of a great historical figure. Sometimes one must read between the lines.
One more thing. As one who was schooled by a great Yogic teacher, Jesus would be considered an Avatar. But in first century Palestine there were no reference points for someone like him. Except for the greatest Hebrew prophets, He was not the Jewish Messiah not was he the world's Messiah for there is no such thing, but the schism of the Jews not accepting him as such muddied the waters badly.
The religion that arose, sadly, was a terrible distortion weird blend of some of his public teachings and Hellenized Paganism. It has taken 2000 years to get it right. 300 years ago we all have been killed. for having beliefs like this.
I'm not sure why a man who taught only Torah observance would be an avatar in hinduism? The Torah means nothing to hindus.
Christ, Krishna. Potatoes, Potartoes, my man.
@@Shane-hp2mv That's what Ktishna said in the Gita. What is interesting is Krishna speaks AS what Jesus called "the Father", not as anointed messenger.
@@kenkaplan3654 The newest dying rising god. Compare and contrast dying rising God's with a Jesus and see where ideas of him come from. He did not exist.
Damn she broke this down like a boss. Amazing
She got a lot of it wrong.
video starts at 6:40 after long introduction
The video starts at 0:00. The lecture starts at 7:40.
Thanks
One thing I like about Pagels is that she doesn't quickly disregard the "gnostic" gospels. One often sees those texts get short shrift.
Well, she did indicate there's a paradigm to disregard them, and it looks like she's an academic pioneer in pushing for a paradigm shift.
Just love her. Such understanding
Thank you for this video. 😊
When the idea that the divinity is within you comes from experiencing it spiritually, it is liberating. When it is just an idea believed in but not experienced, it becomes dangerous.
When a person thinks he is divine then the world around him is in trouble. 2 examples, Jim Jones and David Koresh.
YES
@@bcalvert321 They thought they were exclusively divine. WE ALL ARE
@@Thesaurcery4U2C No we are not divine. Divine is only for God. We are saints though.
@@bcalvert321 Just the image of the divine?
I think s key to the teachings in Thomas as well as Yeshua's teachings at all levels is when he reveals as if it's something kept secret that we are all gods. Perhaps we are within us capable of being gods if we understand through the teaching we are capable of being gods. It is when we know this of ourselves that will be in awe and then amazed. And it is as gods we begin to expand heaven within us.
God [is] spirit - Jhn 4:24 The secret (mystḗrion) is direct gnosis of spirit/pneuma. Secret is not unknowable. Rather, it is what is known by gnosis. Those espoused to the flesh have no search capacity.
If only Bible thumping Trumpers could get wrapped around this Gnosis. Love your comment. Thanks!
@Darren What is your problem? Even plumbing has an exoteric and an esoteric teaching. Everything does.
Yes, and this is what Jesus/Yeshua is pointing to when he explains to Nicodemus that he must be born again of the spirit. It's a shift in perception/awareness to see and experience the Kingdom here and now that is unseen around us (or in our midst) and within us. And gnosis or the pearl is what he referred to when he encouraged us to "seek and you will find" and admonished us to not "cast pearls before swine" -- don't try to teach gnosis/wisdom/the mysteries of the Kingdom to those who are not spiritually mature. The hints about Jesus' secret esoteric teachings are right there in plain sight in the four canonical gospels.
There is something magical about 11:11. "These are the secret words which Jesus the Living One spoke and which his disciple [Didymus] Judas Thomas wrote down. And he said whoever finds the meaning of these words will not die."
Could there be a relationship between Jesus as the "Living One" and one John the Baptist referred to as the Great Life? Mandaean Book of John, chapter 11 speaks of this time ... our time. Specifically? I believe it addresses this year.
The time has came and passed everytime you walk past a homeless person a drug addict and snuff up your nose. You missed it because class separation has made you blind
And yet no one reading this has sold thier possessions etc
@@christopherjordan9707 Hahahahahahaha!!!!! That was a teaching for the few, the rich, the selfish. He certainly didn't give everyone the same instructions. I have given away quite a bit, but never all, And I have always been poor to begin with, so it wouldn't have been that hard. But still, I didn't.
@@fancynancylucille some may call you lukewarm
L.p... p
I got the Dikaios down δικαιος, but I can't find this term she says that sounds like Angolos. Any Greek scholars out there who can help me out? 27:11
Yeshua repeats the idea in this "gospel" that you don't patch old clothes with a new patch or put old wine in new wineskins. He also reprimands the disciples for quoting the prophets to establish who he is and says that his words should stand on their own. After two thousand years of intolerance and misrepresentation of Yeshua perhaps it is time to take him at his word and put what he is saying against the lessons of history and the philosophers and sages whose wisdom and clear-thinking has stood the passage of time and enlightened us. We are starting with a clean sheet in evaluating Yeshua.
Yeshua never existed. Find one original manuscript within 70 years of Jesus death that has that name. Not paleographry dated either. Many are Egyotian paparyus from the date with writings from a later period. He would have spoken Aramaic and not Coine greek
@@AdonaiZedek I'm of the opinion Yeshu/Yeshua existed but Paul of Tarsus and the Canonical Gospel writers made him into a different person entirely, one who never existed.
So how Thomas describes Jesus' teachings begins to sound more like the nature of Buddhism! Am I going in the right direction with this?
Jesus's teaching mainly stresses on love and peace that require sincere services and sacrifice for one another.
But the secret teachings also emphasize what is called realization, true knowledge of God.
Which is very different to Judaism and Islam really in its message
I've known it for awhile now ,
We Are One !
Inexplicable, mysterious ,almost beyond comprehension, but there it is .
We are fractals of the source.
We are the Universe manifest figuring itself out.
Consciousness is fundamental. Evolution is is how it is reducing its entropy.
We are one what?
@@robinharwood5044 Part of all that is . Indevisable from the whole .
We are part of everything and everything is a part of us .
It is , and we are !
Hope that clears it up .
LMAO
@@marvymarier8988 Wrong. God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit created everything. We are not a part of nature, nature is not God.
We are WON. "By my OWN, I have WON, here and NOW".
Just starting this video but wanted to say I read her book The Gnostic Gospels many years ago and it was fantastic.
*Professor Elaine Pagels was supposed to be brave enough to tell that "Acta Thomae" (Acts of Thomas) used to be read in Churches along with other Gospels but he was Pope Gelasius who condemned it in year 495 CE. He condemned it because Acta Thomae denies hoax of Virgin Birth, and Acta Thomae also tells that even after many years of Incidence of Cross; Jesus along with Thomas was present in Taxila (Pakistan) attending marriage party of daughter of King of Taxila. This made clear that Jesus did not die on the Cross, as is also given in Quran 4:157. Statues of Jesus and his son Eli-kim still exist in Taxila-Museum*
I'll bet those statues had the likeness of someone recognisably Jewish instead of looking like our traditional images of Jesus. Can they be viewed on the web?
@@edwardmiessner6502
Yes: you can view those in our this page "
*Best scholarly page on the life of Jesus.*
A Treasure for the Students of Comparative religion.
Perhaps next time you can setup a camera that is adjusted to make the slides nicely visible. Then with some editing in post to nicely intercut them during the whole lecture.
Great stuff!
As an atheist, my favorite gospel. No wonder early Christian Church rejected it as heretical. Makes too much sense. Too much self reflection, too many questions. Contrary to Paul's gospel of obedient blind faith.
Born again loons are out of their minds watching this. Read the comments.
First time i listened Mrs Pagels,may be the kingdom details comes from Fikino Poimandres manuscript and can be the exact words of Trismegistus,very nicely done conference looks like i have to watch all her works and read❤
She is a truly brilliant, fascinating professor. I once wrote her a letter praising one of her books and she wrote me back.
Me too
@@jeremymettler2785 you assume christians see Everything and Understand Everything. It's not what they say. It's taken on a point by point basis
Inasmuch as I do not know of Professor Simon Gathercole's work, I would suggest that rather than labelling the Gospel of Thomas inferior, it is interior. It cannot be understood from without, without being understood from within. Then to consider those anomalies so much a part of its overall design none designated a separate but part of the whole, in light of any perceived contradictions to be found within the Gospel of Thomas - or within those gospels which form the New Testament - if we as a people are the sum total of our contradictions, as is Life and as is Love itself, then so too are the Gospels the sum total of their contradictions; all of them! It is that each in some way reflect the other, being a part of the one vibration wholly innocent within whose innocence is our holiness to be found, no thought however diverse excluded.
Where I believe everything is born of the one vibration, I would like to offer the following in keeping with Love the source of Life whose will is that we should know it:
In the beginning there was a vibration, and this vibration had such energy to it, that through it all things were formed and would be found.
Much akin to an idea or an opinion that occurs suddenly in the mind without thinking, yet corresponding to some distinct entity essential in feature to what it was, this vibration went by a name.
Its name was Thought and Love was its only way of thinking.
And such was Love's thinking within Thought, that it had all the strength and vitality that was needed to sustain to the fullest degree, every physical and mental activity required to make things whole, yet not entirely holy save but one much needed thing.
Although Thought asked of Love to lend to it its voice, Love at first said nothing but waited, because that is what Love does; it waits.
Thought could see that Love was thinking, and it seemed to Thought that perhaps Love knew not quite what to say. And as Time passed by as it invariably does, Thought began to wonder why if Love was everything of meaning, it had no meaning to answer.
Looking again to Love as Love thought not to look elsewhere, there was still nothing there, just as there is nothing more serenely still than Love as Peace it lends us, a thought our thinking has yet to truly know.
Therefore, and as was Thought’s wont, it began to think again:
"If Love answers not then it has no needs, as would Reason have it be that neither does Love ask for anything."
As Love remained silent, and more silent even still, Thought looked about the seemingly empty space within which it had found itself vibrating, and where for Love as is Love's promise the premise of Hope (and Hope's premise Love's promise in Life) nothing is ever held not true.
At that moment, and for but the briefest period of time beyond Time itself more singular than was any period that went before, Thought became so fully aware of something as fact to understand it clearly and without condition; the most beautiful relationships we can have with each other, they are centred in Love, and with nothing in between that anything is split in two.
Once realised, Thought began to accommodate all thinking to this as so should you, and fears no longer entered the mind of man, since it was never part of Love's overall plan.
Blessings!
I am surprised, very, she does not mention non-duality...
She dances around the ideas. he doesnt want to give herself away. She knows he whole bible is fabricated. She is probably of the Rose Cross or something similar
_great_ lecture very explanatory
Jesus is an enigma wrapped in a mystery! Jesus is the highest Consciousness embodied in a person... never was a physical person!!!
Nothing you just said makes any sense
@@Thumbs81 And it never will, until The Invisible Spirit of God, which is the highest Divine Consciousness reveal this to YOU! An intelligent person will never insult me, and you being a Fool Can't!!!
@@rosannag.burroughs4563 Word salad
@@Thumbs81 Do you know what the word Enigma means???
Exactly true, I am fully convinced.
I believe that you may find the teachings of "The Ancient Antiochene Church of God" to be very interesting. Thanks for all of your posts.
Were they gnostic?
The Devine energy of the universe? Sounds like Ancient Sanatana Dharma or Buddhism
Elaine got all of her steps in for this day
Very erudite. And so well explained. Namaskars to Professor Pagels.
Great presentation.
I have been fascinated with Elaine Pagel’s books for a very long time. She is my favorite writer about early Christianity. She knows how to make the subject dynamic and understandable.
Great intellectual teaching! Just add a contemplative practice and in a few years of practice you will really understand these secret teaching!!
That implies that you understand the secret teachings..😂
@@unbroken1010 Awareness
@@marvymarier8988 doesn't matter I still don't think the lady knows what she's talking about
@@unbroken1010 exactly what is it you disagree with ?
People misunderstand Christ's message completely .
Love God , and love your neighbor as yourself .
Love your enemies too . To experience God , not to worship the messenger .
Or burn witches .
To give to the poor . To clothe the naked etc. I've met very few Christians. Wisdom is more than reciting bible quotes , or badgering people .
With love alone we can understand Christ's message .
No man is righteous, who has anger in his heart .
Do you have anger in your heart ?
@@marvymarier8988 I have a simple problem with the masses of repenters and doomsayers demanding that there is one path to salvation. I have a huge problem with people I can't seem to function around the idea of a historical Christ vs a mythical Christ. And I will always have a problem with anybody trying to instill a message we are going to hell because you're not saved.
Are there writings from the time of the living Jesus? Wouldn't people have wanted to document his teachings at the time?
Someone should do something about this great women in spanish , there’s a lot of gnostic peole that would appreciate to know about elaine pagels work
@J. C. yeah or at least explain to them but there's plenty of translator apps now a days. Thankfully nobody feels that way about Spanish soap operas ..😂 and I thought the American American ones for trash
They can learn English
Whenever there's a "Psst! I have the secret knowledge over here that nobody ever knew" I start looking around for the hat with the rocks in it.
No doubt, Joseph!
I find the possibility that he taught publicly one way and privately another a very exciting and sense making thought. I have, just before watching this point, had an interesting affirmation through an ad that played - when people want to influence or teach they use visual aids because it helps to get their point across. Ties in with why Jesus always used parables and miracles when dealing with wider audiences. I hear so much of Lao Tzu and Buddha in the Gospel of Thomas. One has to be somewhere into inner exploration before these teachings have any meaningful substance for the listener, and the words become palpable. This talk is fascinating - we learn nothing when to do, see and hear it is easy. Nietzsche was a mystic who came to 'kill Orthodoxy', leaving the room empty for us to discover the Divine within us all. I understand so deeply my love of this man and the suffering that produced his great guidance away from everything we the people believed, incorrectly, to be true.
The gospel of Thomas matches a lot to Neil DeGrasse Tyson view of energy of the universe... we are all made of the same materials that makes the universe.
I don’t feel that you become God when you have moved from outside to inside spiritually but that you gain a responsibility, and a confidence and a completeness being one with that spirit and not all powerful as far as others but of one with that father spirit thru the knowledge from study of the teachings ......there is a comfort with the knowing.... an incite.....a true light that can shine, if you will, for others to follow, to gather that comfort, that confidence that God surrounds, protects and guides you.....which is how I feel in my relationship with God Father, God Son, God Spirit
Thank you, Dr Pagels for this further enLIGHTening dissertation to add to my life study.... I am 80 yrs young, but old in my wisdom I believe...
BTW my name is Gale Pagels Monterio ☺️
Absolutely my feeling. I'm so happy to find others with the same vision.
I enjoy the words of Manly Hall - we are the atoms that make us up just as we are among the atoms that make up God.
If all was created out of nothing but pure energy, there's no way to not be directly connected to God /all. I believe everything we can imagine and see is God. God speaks to us through every single event around us. When we listen to this voice/nature and follow or flow with its direction, we prosper.
And my name is Giovanni Giorgio, but everyone calls me Giorgio.
Very nice interpretation. These gnostic gospels are quite simillar to vaishnava filosofy, special to 14-15th century!
Elaine has some great info to share, but she's hard to follow. She strikes me as being a little ADD...she starts developing a point, and then forgets what she was talking about and moves on. I haven't made it all the way through one of her lectures for this reason.
I agree. I have only read one of her books but it might be time to review her other works.
4 Gospels in the Canon, but many more outside the Canon. It seems very curious that there was so much religious literature produced about Jesus. The literature has several different points of view but what does it tell us that there was so much of it produced? I’m not looking for a religious answer to that question but an historical one.
I am not Christian, By Lambdin's Thomas Gospel I knew that Gospel is not different from the sudden enlightening teachings of Buddha's. So this one have read John's Gospel. All stories of John's Gospel are just the same teachings. So this one happily recommend world Christians would voluntalily regain the One and Same Spritual Body of their own eternal Life. Thanks every people. Forever be happy, Pagels.
Mani
The gospel of Thomas is nothing like the Gospel of John. It is not even close. You said Thomas was like Buddhism. Might be but the Gospel of John is about love and that love comes from Jesus and the cross.
@@bcalvert321 When people see, meet and be the I Self in their body, then they digest John's.
There people shall be with Jesus'. In the beginning there was the word. They are that they are.
@@iallalli5223 There is no I self in any body. It is the Holy Spirit of God.
@@bcalvert321 When you are the Holy Spirit, then you awake the real Love, which is eternal One, Same. That is real I of Ben Calvert. As people are in their own dream, one also is in his own dream. When one dive into the sea's bottom, as Jonah had done. Then the one shall awake his Holy Spirit, which is eating Jesus', digesting John's and Thomas'. Have nice day.
6:47 Pagels takes the stand.
Got half way through so far and to my ... Understanding, 🌸, nicely interpreted ✨🌟✨🌸
38:28 idk where I got it, but I always understood Jude Thomas and James the brother of Jesus to be twins. 🤷
Catholicism is about legalism.
Gnosis is about the god within.
@Darren
Even Lucifer/Satan is partly good.
His light is from the invisible Spirit, his darkness came through his pride and rebellion.
@Darren
Saying of the Messiah 30 from the gospel of Thomas found at Oxyrhynchus Egypt.
Oldest version.
"Where there are three they are without God.
Where there is one I say I am there with you.
Lift a stone and you will find me, split a piece of wood and I am there."
I am Catholic and l don't find it legalistic. Pope Benedict XVI says that Christian faith is first and foremost an encounter with the person of Jesus. Canon Law is simply a way of ensuring justice and equity within the Church thereby, to a greater or less degree, allowing people to grow personally in faith and also in Communion with Christ and each other in the (to use St Paul's language) Body of Christ.
... and about non omnipotent God (s).
Argumentation?
00:51:50
Correction: in Orthodox Christianity, they emphasized that human were created in Divine and Likeness of God. Based on Book of Genesis. Human have this inner divine nature, just like Jesus Christ had shown us, that Human Nature and Divine Nature are united in harmony. Too bad, this emphasis had lost in other Christian Tradition (catholic and protestanism).
Sweet woman, very smart, excellent writer and long-suffering in her personal life. As a comic aside, Elaine can definitely walk and talk at the same time. Peripatetic scholar par excellence!!
I'll bet she could chew gum as well and still be great!
Yep, the cameraman had his work cut out for him. Great talk and indeed an excellent scholar and writer.
Why is she suffering in her personal life?
@@moonlighth4515 Elaine suffered the tragic loss of her husband in a climbing accident and the death of an infant son through genetic and fatal disease . She went from heaven to hell. Does one ever stop suffering from such sorrow. Mrs Pagels is a person of great courage
@@williampowhida572 yes yes yes the “kingdom of heaven” is not all comfortable sweetness , but it is absolutely REAL right here , right now .
The Kingdom of God is not Meat and Drink but righteousness, peace and joy in the HolyGhost!
Can you imagine being the camera person ?
Yeah for an older person she's doing a lot of moving around
Cross eyed.
11 minutes later and I get your comment.....geeeez
Hmmmm. Had he zoomed out.....
😂😂😂😂
44:00 ish
Jungian individuation ?
I'm getting seasick... stop walking Elaine!!!
When she was a TA probably told by her supervising professor..."now Elaine, to keep them engaged you've got to keep moving, just keep moving and their eyes will be on you"...
Just awful. I had to listen to the audio only.
Amen! Had to scroll the video out of my view and like Comine", just listened to he audio.
Thank you for sharing
I got a lot out of this. I'm definitely going to need to listen again.
Perhaps because gender is “the body” not the soul, Jesus was saying if you come to God as your spiritual self, you should come as one integrated soul, not as the earthly man or woman.
¨Yep, souls dont have colors or genitalia.
what an amazing speaker
What a treat! I have read Dr. Pagels' books and very much enjoy this video lecture! Thank you!
“next whatt you need to know is who you are...” and also, who not to believe. The original deception was by the Serpent, whose legacy was picked up by religious legalists throughout history... including the religious authorities who confronted Jesus...to the Catholic Church and its controlling cabal...to Protestant preachings about scriptural infallibility. All the same. Our spiritual integrity must be maintained in the face of the eternal deceptive control by religion itself. I’ve written a book about this.
@@ChristopherCudworth "Protestant preaching's about scriptural infallibility." If the Bible is the inspired word of God then it is infallible. Saying otherwise is exactly what the serpent wants us to believe. The bible is the objective standard in which you judge and rebuke false doctrine. Has nothing to do with religion, but objective truth.
@@jsharp9735 its infallibility is no longer the issue. We know the originals do not exist. We know mistakes and errors were made. We know that false or selective interpretations corrupt its meaning. We know that Christianity as an institution has added or invented layers of belief (purgatory and hell itself…) as means to control the masses. And the existence of multiple translations makes the notion of infallibility a delicate farce. Your basic premise is popular but wrong.
What lots of people (even pastors) don't (yet) understand.
God created us according to His own image and likeness. Godly.
Mankind/the first Adam fell. The image of God in man got lost. That's why there is all this predicament on earth (selfishness, greed, lust, wars, sicknesses, death, etc).
We are all born into that mess.
For the fall of man a perfect atoning sacrifice had to be made.... that is what God did in Christ.
With His own once and for all perefect sacrifice, He paid the debt for the fall of man for us, so we can be indwelled by His Spirit again and finally receive the divine life of the ages back, the first Adam let got of in the fall of man. An amazing act of grace and love by our creator.
That is what you see happening in Christ's first disciples. They too healed all and walked in unselfish love.
And yes.... that is still avaible today. The holy blood is in place, the Holy Spirit is here to give us understanding, power and transform us back to origin.
Not to be debated about, but to be embraced and be-come.
So: The Kingdom of God already came. Through Christ, in Spiritform, in those that understand.
Hence the divine healing miracles we experience.
God manifested in Christ to give us back the divine life mankind lost in the fall of Adam.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God.
The image we were created after in Gen 1.
The image we lost in the fall of man.
The image that can be freely restored by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit working IN us.
What a plan. What a solution. What a love. What a God. Jesus is amazing.
It is the ultimate conclusion of the word and plan of God. God came full circle.
He Himself stooped down from glory to restore us back to original created value: Christlikeness. Walking in divine healing power and unselfish love.
Jesus, born of the Spirit of God, filled with the spirit of God. The "Son" of God, the incarnated word, God in the flesh.
For three years He healed all, raised the dead, casted out demons, controlled nature, spoke pure divine truth.
He said:
"Follow Me. If you see Me, you see the Father. The Father and I are one. The glory I have IN My Father, I give to you. It pleases the Father to give you His Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature. I will send Holy Spirit, the same as Me, He will be IN you, guide you into truth and give you explosive power. The same miracles i do, you will do too, because you will understand that the Father is IN Me and I am IN you. Freely I give you My Kingdom/Holy Spirit/divine nature, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, freely I give, freely share" Etc, etc, etc.
I have experienced thousands of beautifull healing miracles through the power of Holy Spirit IN me already. Broken bones, cancers, covid, all kinds of infirmities healed in seconds. Demons manifesting and casted out by a simple "get out, in Jesus name".
Jesus. De name above all names. In Him all power and wisdom is sourced and.... He calls us one with Him. God in man and man in God again. C'mon Jesus!!
So.... again: God stooped down IN Christ to restore us back to Gen 1:27 were He said: "Let us make man according to our image and likeness and let them have authority.....": walk as Christ.
Christ, the exact image of the invisible God. The image we were created after and being restored to by His atoning blood for the fall of man and indwelling Holy Spirit.
You are free to receive this original divine life of the ages by Holy Spirit of Christ/God. Ask Him to guide you into truth. Read the Gospel of John and fall in love with your creator.
You are not made for the fall of man and its effects, but for the image/glory of God and to walk like Christ. Holy Spirit is the guide and transforming power that will get you there. Amazing grace.
A big leap in faith can be made when we start realizing we are already IN Christ, IN the last Adam.
Free from the fall! Loved! Growing into awareness of our new (yet old) godly identity. Changing by Holy Spirit. The most fullfilled life ever.
Paul healed all on Malta. He understood and wrote:
"As in the first Adam ALL died (lost the divine nature), so also ALL were made alive IN Christ to walk in Zoë (= divine life) again".
"IN Christ (the last Adam) we are co-cruisified (dead to the fall and its effects), co-raised (justified/made righteousness, holy, blameless, above reproach), co-seated (one with Him)"
"The fullness of deity dwells in Christ and YOU HAVE BEEN MADE COMPLETE IN HIM, who is the head of every principality and power".
So.... thank you Jesus! Thank you for redeeming me from the fall of man. Thank you for your Holy Spirit that makes this new (yet old) divine life come alive in me. You are amazing!
In the shadow of Peter the sick healed... He understood too and wrote:
"By Gods power (Holy Spirit) and knowing Christ, we have become partakers of the divine nature and have escaped the fall of man".
The divine life of the ages has been returned to us by Jesus once and for all perfect atoning sacrifice for the debt of the fall of man and His indwelling Holy Spirit in us. Jesus/God is amazing!!!
Ask Him to give you revelation and change you to the way it was before the fall of man: Christlikeness.
He will do so. For it is written: "the Spirit brings forth after His own kind".
"I have come to give you Zoë (divine life) in abundance...."
The relationship between Platonism and Christianity is so amazing to me. Know thyself.
Plato never existed. He was written through like Jesus was too. He never existed either.