Critical Hits | Cool Combat Dice Mechanisms in Games | Cursed City, Rangers of Shadow Deep & More
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Always Board Never Boring loves dice, but dice hate him. He really enjoys different dice combat systems, and in this video he looks at three of his favourites from Warhammer Quest Cursed City, Rangers of Shadow Deep, and Burrows and Badgers (possibly the most unsurprising list of games ever).
By the way, sorry for the amount of dust on the backing mat for this video. No idea what was going on there.
#dicemechanisms #dice #tabletopgames
Always Board Never Boring produces fresh content on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
If you found this video useful, please consider making a small donation to the channel, using the following link or the clickable PayPal icon in the banner on the channel homepage:
www.paypal.com...
If you're in the UK, you can also help to support my channel by shopping at Element Games with my affiliate link, and using code KEV392 at checkout to get yourself double Element Crystals on your order:
elementgames.c...
Don't forget to sub and like, and please check out all this other cool stuff too:
www.alwaysboar...
/ alwaysboardneverboring
/ alwaysboardneverboring
www.boardgameg...
Music by James Lloyd. Check out his stuff at:
jnlloyd.bandca...
Would be interested to hear about more systems.
That Burrows and Badgers dice machinic sounds SO AWESOME! Genius!
It's a great dice system. I like it a lot.
I love dice, regardless of their feelings for me! I am really loving this game. I can’t wait for your review on Monday.
Glad to hear you're enjoying it.
Definitely interested to hear more!
Thanks for watching and the feedback.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring This video remembered me about the dice combat systems in gamebooks, standard system is Fighting Fantasy's, I think, but there are many great ones. Maybe you have played/read some of these? I think it could be great to hear what you think about these little systems.
Nice! A theory video. I personaly like the Advanced Heroquest System the most. D12 are my favorite dice, because they don't have to many numbers, but you have a decent amount of possible probability ranges. You can easily recreate most other dice with them.
What most systems lack is a modifier that balances the skill of attacker and defender. AHQ has Weapon Skills for each character, but you roll always over your own value. I would create a fight by rolling over the defenders weapon skill and modify for the difference to my own.
WS1=WS2 -> no modifier; you have to roll higher than WS2 to hurt the enemy.
WS1 WS2+(WS2-WS1) is what you have to roll to hit. If that value is >13 you are outclassed and have no way to hit the Heron marked master swords man!
Same for WS1>WS2. It becomes easier to hit the enemy until it's an auto-hit.
You can add rules for critical hits and weapon modifiers that make you or your enemies better/worse with their weapon.
Did I just reinvent D&D THAC0 ? I guess not.
These modern euro-style combat systems are not really my thing, but I like the action system with 4 slots and dice that regulate the efficiancy of the action and what actions you can choose.
Dang it. Just reread the AHQ combat rules and actually reinvented them. lol
With time ideas I read have the tendency to become my own. I believed I I invented that. Unbelievable. You can't even trust yourself. ;)
The only original part was the auto-hit and auto-fail.
There are worse systems to claim as your own invention. I do like AHQ. I am still slowly collecting skaven for my fixer upper set. I just like having them lined up on my desk because they look so cool.
looking foward to the full review, thank you for all your coverage!
I've had a lot of fun working on it. Cursed City hasn't left my table since it arrived!
Never been looking forward to a Monday on a Friday more... Roll on CC review :)
Shucks. Thanks for the kind words.
Hey Mate, thx for the great info. Now i understand the combat :-) Relly good for a new solo player.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you found the video useful.
Thank you for that video, very helpful.
Thank you for watching.
Id be interested to hear what you have to say about those other systems 👌
Thanks for the feedback.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thanks to all your coverage on all the warhammer quests games, I've ''imported'' the rules and made my own Post-apocalyptic game (will modular tiles, 3d printed buildings, over 150 painted miniatures) for my post-apocalyptic LARP. The players can hire mercenaries to explore the ruins of cities, and this is represented by playing this ''warhammer quest hybrid'' I did. Your content is what made this whole project happen. I should send you a quick video of the Table when it's set up, it's quite something loll.
@@40kfrog40 That sounds amazing, and I'm really pleased to hear my videos were able to help.
I like the dice combat system in Warhammer Underworlds. Quick to use but very flexible.
Yeah. It was pretty neat. I enjoyed the first season of Underworlds, but once they hit season two my interest dipped and I didn't buy anything more after the second wave core box.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yes this. Worth highlighting this system if you do another video on dice combat. I like how scalable it is -- dice numbers, hammers vs swords, the support mechanic, plus the opposed roll is exciting. So much better than WHs traditional "roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save" mechanic.
Thanks for sharing, great video 👍
Thank you for watching.
Interesting mechanics focused video.
Thanks. Thought it was something a bit different.
Follow up would be awesome
I do have more videos about game mechanisms in the works.
thanks for the email. I have played too much D&D hopping for fun. I know too well what I don't like about it.
Funnily enough I felt much the same as you regarding the custom dice going in to Cursed City (in that I would have preferred a return to D6s) but I've really warmed to them. The only other change I would have made is to also have had Defense rolls block a varied amount on a per hero basis (so the Ogor takes less damage on a success than the Aelf for example).
The revisions they've made to the combat system make me like it so much more than I did in Blackstone (and I didn't dislike it then!). Variable defence could have been interesting, but I'm actually okay with the static defence values, because the traits grant the stalwarts extra defence buffs anyway, like ignoring the first point of damage. And once they get to level 6 their successful defence rolls block an additional point of damage.
This make me feel better about my own custom dice for my dice pool house rules. I use three kinds of dice for damage effects (push /stagger, critical damage and Ignore armor which is hitting gaps in the armor). Every hit is at least one point of damage but it is possible to be dozens of points of damage as the critical damage dice is rolled again each time it comes up as 1 point. The other sides of the dice are blank. Now depending on your weapons and character abilities and other factors I just add dice to the pool. For example a great sword gets two push dice and two critical hit dice. A dagger gets extra ignore armor dice and so on. It has turned out to be an amazing way to run combat in my game but I was always worried about custom dice turning off players.
Would love to hear what you have to say about other systems as well as just clean, or exciting game mechanics in general. For example i go u go vs bolt action as an example.
Thanks. It might be something I think about for future videos. I appreciate the feedback!
Have you played Aristeia the dice system in that are super cinematic. Most boardgames just use the heroquest system, but Aristeia's evolves the system.
I know of the game but I've never played it. I'll have to look into it. I think a lot of games use the attack and block HeroQuest dice system because it works so well.
I like it! I learn something new about the cursed city. And now for something completely different. These critical hit systems are all dice-based. In an old fashion pencil and paper RPGs do you have a favorite critical system or homebrew? What is it? My favorite game was killed, sacrificed, neutered, and sold to fantasy flight.
Thanks, I'm glad you found something of interest in the video. I don't play a lot of RPGs, I'm afraid. I could never get a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying group together back in my youth, although I had the book. We subsequently started playing the roleplaying rules for Warhammer Quest 95, but that's really still a board game. Two years ago I finally started playing D&D after toying with the idea for a very long time (and previously owning the yellow and blue box starters). I recently started playing the Labyrinth Adventure Game RPG with my family. I guess the only other thing I play at the moment that I kind of consider an RPG (in a non-traditional sense) is Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective. (I like the Frazetta avatar, by the way.)
I’m looking forward to your review of Cursed City! This was an interesting comparison video and I’d love to see one where you talk about Dungeon Saga- I went all in on the KS and have made use of it for D&D but haven’t got around to playing the board game yet.
I was lucky enough to get a copy and I’ve just finished my fourth journey- the vargskyr decapitation one. Having tried all the types of mission out now I’m really enjoying the combat mechanics of the game and the variety between hunt and deliverance missions.
However I am finding it a little easier than I’d like. I’ve yet to have a single character go out of action and I only came close for the first time during the vargskyr mission. Have you found that the game gets more difficult as you start playing higher level journeys? I’m hoping the extra difficulty from additional enemies will scale faster than the power boost from higher level characters with their enhancements.
Glad to hear you're having fun with the game. I hope you don't think I'm being rude but I'm going to refrain from answering your question right now. The difficulty is a big part of my review, and my answer is pretty long and complicated. I will just say I'm surprised you're finding the Deliverance missions easy , and you haven't had any heroes out of action yet.
Not at all, glad to hear you’ll be going into detail on the difficulty in your review! :)
That’s interesting, to me the deliverance one seemed easiest as you can control the timing of explore actions to allow you to get a lot of damage off before the enemies activate. I imagine that the gravetide timer will get more pressing once you can’t just kill all the enemies that spawn in one turn.
The Rangers system is basically D&D adventure boardgames it seems.
The only real similarity I see is they both use D20. In Rangers both characters roll a D20 and add their fight stat, highest value wins. Convert the winner's value into damage, add damage modifiers, minus target's armour. In the D&D adventure games (which I really like, by the way) there's no opposed dice rolling. The attacker rolls a D20, adds a fight modifier based on the specific type of attack and sees if they meet or exceed the target's fixed armour class. If they succeed they do a fixed amount of damage based on the weapon used. So, there's no opposed dice rolling, and damage is a fixed value tied to the weapon rather than being tied to the value rolled on the dice. Additionally, in Rangers it's possible for either combatant to win and to deal damage to the opponent, whereas in D&D the combat is all one way.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Good point. How big can the modifiers be? How much is it just a roll off?
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 How long's a piece of string, really? If two characters with equal fight values and no beneficial skills or items face off, it's a straight dice off, but you shouldn't be getting into that situation. You can use items and skills and having a higher fight value to tip the odds in your favour, and outnumbering is really important. For each ally in base contact with the target you get +2 to your fight modifier, and there's a special group activation rule that let's you get more allies into combat at the same time. Some scenarios also add modifiers, such as the the most recent scenario I posted on the channel where the heroes were getting +4 bonus to fights before the enemy guards raised the alarm making it easy to get +8 or more on dice rolls. There are other modifiers for shooting as well, such as penalties for moving or shooting into cover. It's a miniatures game, so there are always variables. I've got three playthroughs up on the channel if you want to see a bit of the game in action.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring hmmm of course I have not played but I think I would prefer a lot of dice to this, it seems you can put some effort for this plus 8 but still your 4 will lose to a 16.
@@mikolajwitkowski8093 But then, that's the swing that I talk about in the video - the uncertainty that means you can never take things for granted. It's the "uh oh" moment that forces you to rethink your strategy. And of course, you can get access to special abilities like Fate that grant you rerolls. There are loads of ways to mitigate the dice as you progress through the game. Like I said though, it won't be for everyone. I love the elegance and uncertainty, which is why it made my top three.
Nice video, Where can I buy the first dices ?
The dice are from Warhammer Quest Cursed City.
Out of curiosity, have you look into other large box adventure game, like Gloomhaven, Descent or more recently Middara? I come from Heroquest and Warhammer Quest 95.... but more and more I find myself more engaged with games like Middara than Warhammer Quest Blackstone Fortress or other GW box game. This is obviously just my opinion. I am not saying that one game is better than the other. I was just wondering if you ever looked at alternative options :-)
Of course, I don't just play Games Workshop games. Only one of the games in this video is a Games Workshop title. Of the three you mention I've only played Descent (coffin box) but I will probably pick up Jaws of the Lion at some point. Only hesitating on that because I want to try the game but I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy it. But other adventure games I have on my shelf include Super Dungeon Explore, Dungeons and Dragons (adventure system), Dungeon Saga, Fireteam Zero, Legends of Andor, Kingdom Death: Monster, Mage Knight, Runebound, City of Thieves, Firefly Adventures, Alien Vs Predator: The Hunt Begins, Claustrophobia, and so on. I don't back Kickstarters anymore, and will only pick up games at retail, but I did back Myth and No Sanctuary back in the day, both which I got rid of. Then of course there are other tabletop games like Anima Tactics and Dr Who, roleplaying games such as D&D, and skirmish board games like Funkoverse and Godtear. That's before even touching euro games, strategy games, co-op family games like Horrified, and card games. Oh, and my collection of retro, out of production games too.
"[P]ossibly the most unsurprising list of games ever..." Uh, you mean 3 great games I'm happy to see in a single video which rarely happens?
Glad you approve. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see me finding a reason to talk about these three games!
Another game with unique mechanics is the Mythic Battles system. Check it out
I've heard good things about Mythic Battles, but can you even get it at retail?
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring nope but the kickstarter for Ragnarok just ended and I think it has a late back option. Plus they are reproducing all the first stuff (Pantheon) in the pledge manager. Now is the time if you want in
@@callum5257 Thanks for the info. I don't back crowdfunding campaigns, so I'll have to sit that one out.
Why has this not been done: Dice faces B=blanks S=success C=crit
D6 = 4B / 1S / 1C \ D8 = 4B / 2S / 2C \ D12 = 4B / 4S / 4C
It has been- those are the exact odds of the cursed city dice!
They just use blanks, single pips and double pips to represent the different results.
I think he was complaining I didn’t list the odds in the video.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Not complaining - but i think its always helpful when talking about dice to know the odds
Yep dice are fun but never for me, but cards....
You might like a video I have in the works that's like this one but covering cool card combat systems.
Blood for the blood god! Comments for the Algorithm throne!
I also like the BSF/CC dice system - it's a very unique and effective way of doing combat! Rangers of Shadow Deep though... UGHHHH. I tried the game because your videos convinced me to, but I have to say that I hate D20 combat. It feels like stats are irrelevant, as my best melee character gets killed by the weakest enemy, and the strongest enemy gets killed by my weakest character. I find it way too swingy and unfun. I do kinda see the appeal, but it's really not for me :)
The best advice I can give for Rangers is always use the group activation to outnumber enemies, make sure you take the Fate ability for a reroll once per game, put extra points into your Fight stat because it's the most important thing, and try to have something like a friendly panther or dog that is really just a transferable +2 Fight buff that you can dash around the board with to help where needed. Also, pay really close attention to the order in which you fight, and never take anything for granted! But yeah, it's not going to be for everyone. Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring The d20 system in Frostgrave/Rangers is designed around the mid campaign game where there are loads of spells, items, etc modifying the rolls. Early on, it's either instant kills or swing and miss. The most I can say about it is that it's passable.
I generally find opposed roll systems tiresome to play.
Dice mechanics have so many flavors that it becomes a blur. Seems like the dice design is bad in cc if you have 2 blips being a critical which is not equivalent to two individuals blips. One should generally use a more unique symbol. The frostgrave dice system is as you admit super swingy. As an opposed test it is sort of out of place transferred into a solo game.
I don't personally see anything wrong with the dice design. For me, having two different symbols, one for regular hits and one for crits, would be slightly more difficult to quickly distinguish than the number of pips. Two is more than one, therefore better.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yes but if I have to add up blips from multiple dice then one blip on two dice sounds like it should be the same two blips from one dice. Also if two blips is a critical then you are being very limiting is what usage you can get out of a d12 since I appear to be limited to 3 results of blank, one blip, and critical.
@Brad P But you don’t add up pips. You just take your single highest result. And yes, your results are miss, hit, and crit. If you were adding up pips, and treating crits separately, then I would agree that a different icon would be useful for the crit results.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Sorry, I guess I miss understood. Maybe it was from the discussion of how Black Stone worked where you subtracted pips between the attack and defense. I still think different symbols would be better as the confusion I just had would not occur. Star Saga uses a Hollow Blast, Full Blast, !Blast to break the success levels down where you need the matching symbol or better to block that dice specific attack die with the shield instead of blast bit same types defense die. Then you determine the total unblocked dice to see the damage. Sometimes ! results tie into special rules about extra damage, bonus attack, not blockable.