The lead person was told by the person issuing the pass, “I wouldn’t go today.” That’s good enough for me to change my mind! He works there; he knows what he’s talking about!
Its very easy to decide not to go in theory. But in practice, it is much harder. For months you had planned this awesome canyoneering adventure filled with great anticipation and excitement. You then traveled many hours to get there, paid several hundred dollars to take a class and then after all that the ranger recommends not go because of flood warnings. Yet when you look up, you see picture perfect blue skies. You decide to at least go check out the canyon and still nothing but blue skies. Turning around at that point is unlikely. That is why today the rangers don't just provide recommendations, but instead will not issue permits to anyone if the weather is enough of a threat. The Keyhole 7 as they are called changed much of the way the park operates.
Some adults understand they are more mentally capable than others so what one perceives as unpleasant may not feel the same to them. Nevertheless, I think it unwise to lead people to hike into flash floods.
@@canyonwonder " For months you had planned this awesome canyoneering adventure filled with great anticipation and excitement. You then traveled many hours to get there, paid several hundred dollars to take a class". If they had really planned ahead, they would have taken the class months earlier, not the morning of. Also they should have researched the danger, speed and odds of flash floods occurring. Lastly, they would have tried to get some experience canyoning a safer canyon long before they attempted this. This happened in 2015, but a simple internet search would have found the story of 14 year-old Shawn Ellis and his fellow scouts watching helplessly as their scout leader was drowned in front of them in a whirlpool, shortly after Ellis' father drowned during the flash flooding in 2014. And this wasn't the first time flash flooding killed people in the canyon. In 2013 Dave Nally published Flash Floods and Falls: Deaths and Rescues in Zion National Park, featuring personal accounts from Bo Beck, a senior Zion Search and Rescue member for over 17 years.
I'm a canyoneer with more than 15 years of experience who has a house in Zion Canyon and has done all of the canyons requiring permits at least one time each plus many other canyons in the area that don't require permits. I've been caught a few times in downpours that were not forecasted by the weather folks. Any time you enter a canyon, you should plan for the worst, and make sure everyone knows what to do if it occurs. Entering a canyon like keyhole with only one rope is crazy even without the danger of flash floods (yes, ropes sometimes get stuck in cracks and you might need a spare or two). And entering a canyon without each person knowing what possible high ground and escape routes exist is crazy as well. Keyhole actually has an escape route in the mid-section, something that might have been reachable by at least some of the party if they had two ropes. With that said, it's always a dangerous undertaking to go through a space that would be deadly if unexpectedly filled with flowing water, so speed in moving from one safe zone to another should be a priority. Imagine yourself in a city drainage system with few outlets, spaced far and wide. Would you doddle? Move fast, take your photos quickly, and relax and safely enjoy them at your car afterwards!
If you are doing any sort of hiking in the southwest, you NEED to familiarize yourself with the Monsoon. “The day started with blue skies and no clouds”…..I have lived in Southern Arizona my entire life, some of the craziest storms we can get usually occur on days where the skies begin completely clear. That really allows the sun to heat the ground quickly and make the air extremely unstable. Storms can form and dump 2-3 inches of rain in less than an hour.
Those rangers are blunt and real. I went up and the ranger was like “the conditions aren’t great and you’re group doesn’t look like they’d be able to handle it”. I was shocked by that comment but hell yes I am listening to the rangers. We definitely changed plans to an easier route that they recommended for us. Zion’s slot canyons are insane!
Well, it sounds dumb, but if you only have 4 days off work and will be packing up that night to drive to the next campground, I can see how the “meh, it will be fine” bias kicks in.
What’s really sad is that storm ultimately killed about 24 people. You had the 7 people in Zion NP, and then another 17 people were killed in the flash flooding in Hildale, Utah by the same thunderstorm. What happened in Hildale was particularly sad, as entire families were swept to their deaths in those floods, including a number of children.
When the Park Ranger tells you it's not a good idea and says "I wouldn't go today" and 8 of the 9 people have NEVER done this style of exploration, THAT'S ALL I WOULD NEED TO HEAR!!! NOBODY would be going that day!!!!
@@christinemeleg4535 absolutely. In this instance it cost 9 people their lives. Its not just a nice walk along a dusty trail. They were brand new to this terrain and they weren't even at a novice level. It was a stupid decision on behalf of the team leader. A bit of thinking goes a long way
There were seven in the group, six of whom weren’t even rated as novices. The team leader was cavalier about the dangers by ignoring the park official’s warning.
@@davidlang1125 yes and maybe if one of the team's other leaders went with him and or showed concern the others might of said "let's go for a nice hike up Observation point.
My wife and I were in Zion and playing in the water with some other people on a beautiful sunny day. A ranger came by and told us to get of the water as a flash flood was coming from a storm miles away. Everyone got out and 10-15 minutes later a 4 foot high wall of water came rushing down. We were all safe, but a man farther down drowned as he did not get out of the water.
I am not claustrophobic, usually, but I don't like being "walled in" in a deep narrow canyon with steep sides, it;s just a recipe for disaster if water comes, there's NO where to go! There are MANY places out in the wilds that can be dangerous, from animals to weather to landslides, avalanches, and a person should ALWAYS know about those dangers BEFORE going to those places. And if a ranger or other person suggests that you NOT go, there's probably a very good reason to heed that warning!
@@mjleger4555 It rains like 10 times a year. If there’s a 40% chance of rain, there’s a 100% and barely 5 min of rain is enough to cause flashflooding because the ground absorbs nothing and the water just keeps going like a tsunami.
@@stephenbrady5220 Precisely why we're seeing flooding in so many places now, like Utah, because due to the draught and global warming, the ground is too dried hard and solid to allow water absorption, so it just runs off and floods low-lying places. I wouldn't take the chance, I don't care if it is a one in ten chance, not good enough odds for me!
I hiked with Don too. He was so amazing. Knew names of new people on his hikes. Made everyone feel welcomed. Collected trash as we hiked. Such a beautiful person. What a loss.
Myself and my Nephew hiked the Narrows the day the rain started. Our schedule was taking us to Bryce Canyon that day and we had actually debated staying to capture video footage from high ground, but ultimately decided to move on to Bryce. We heard about the people who died when we returned home. So tragic!
A few inches of water in a flash flood is powerful enough to send somebody to their death (I lost a cousin that way when he got swept off his feet into a drainage ditch) All that water bearing down on those poor terrified people? I cannot even imagine being one moment in a beautify canyon and one moment have it turn into rapids.
My auntie and I literally experienced it at the Grand Canyon. It started raining and writhing SECONDS it was a huge flash flood. It’s definitely something that will catch you off guard. Especially if you’re not from the area. Where I’m from in Minnesota, we don’t get flash floods too often. Let alone that quickly.
Because all the rain falling in the entire area is gathering to that one location. Sometimes the canyon will be dry but weather from a higher location will cause flash floods.
This is in Southern Utah. Because of the terrain (not only in Zion, but many, many places in Utah), it could be raining miles from where you are, and a flash flood/debris flow will travel miles down the local washes. One not only has to check the weather where you are, but up-mountain or terrain from where you are. Remember, you're on your own. You are responsible for your own welfare and safety. Almost everything you do in the wilderness is at your own risk...
I love exploring and have done a lot of it, but if a local authority says don't go somewhere, I'm not arguing or going anyway, because THEY know what they are talking about! I love life too much to risk mine!
Interesting weather note for people, a 50% chance of rain doesn't mean its a 50/50 if it's gonna rain or not. It's actually a 100% chance that 50% of the area will experience rain, which is why the flood risk was so high.
There is an old Punjabi saying: it’s always the swimmer that drowns. Someone who isn’t that confident won’t get in troubled waters. It’s a very sad loss of competent people.
I remember when this happened. And their loss of life has made me a much more cautious person when canyoneering. Also, if a ranger tells you they wouldn't do a hike or canyon or whatever, LISTEN TO THEM.
instead of warning and telling people, why not just cancel any hikes if he said its not good to go out..? dont give people any choice.... by saying dont go out is like daring people to go..
@@josephsaeteurn9158 Do you know how much chaos people rose when the US government tried to force them to wear masks? People don't care if youre trying to safe their lives. They value their "freedom" and "rights".
My family and I used to backpack a lot in the Sierra Nevadas. I learned several things from that. first, no matter how much you plan for the unexpected, you never plan enough. second, listen to the rangers, and then listen to what they´re not saying. Not all of them feel people are their first priority (not saying this is the case of the worker warning this group AT ALL). Third; Leave the city, enter the food chain. all bets are off. It´s sad that you get people who make it necessary for parks to have to put in disclaimer clauses, but then again, there are people who climbover fences in front of waterfalls and ignore warnings in picture form of what can happen if they do. Yeah. And, fourth: Don´t assume the worst of people, but use common sense. If you meet someone in the middle of nowhere and your instincts scream at you to get away, get away. Big foot may not exist, but psychopaths definitely do.
@@daisycocoa2557 I grew up in the middle of the forest too, I loved it then, still do, Am I a "nut"? NO!! A retired Girl Scout who always hikes and ventures deeper in to the forest as safely as possible. Many less psychotics where I hike, than in the city.
I used to drive down a road to work in a canyon carved by flash floods. During monsoon season here in the West I refuse to drive down that road when the storms are a possibility. I have seen two actual flash floods sweep by, I turned around and went home, my cousin was stunned when he drove down with me , he is a rapid water civil engineer, I remember his words "Do you ever think about this canyon when you drive?" I reassured him that I do as I turn around to higher ground and go home! Never think you can over come what Nature has planned, you will be a mere number on the morgue list.
A truly sad & wild story. I honestly feel like I probably came across that same park ranger. I went to Zion do do the subway hike and weather said 15% chance of rain & it was 93 deg that day. The ranger warned me & my buddy n straight up said keep an eye on the clouds, if you see dark clouds turn around & get out or you won’t make it. Like clockwork we stopped the hike 1.25 miles from the subway, we got out n grab some beers n burgers. Then boom massive storm came in, we would have been toast if we decided to “finish” which would have finished us. Props to that park ranger who keeps it real & gives that warning. I honestly think, things would have been a lot different had I not gotten my permit from him.
Having lived out west for over 20 year, I can tell you if it says above 30% chance of weather, there will be weather. It may not be a full on storm, but it will put something onto the ground. Slot canyons scare the crap outta me. As do dry washes, where you see people setting up camp in them all the time. While the soil may be dry as a bone, when the rain hits it, the soil either quickly sucks up what it can or it repels the water until it does hydrate. It is very weird to see how much water collects on a wide open area and begins flowing to the washes. It might as well be a paved parking lot. So, a small storm that might drop a half inch of water is going to accumulate over many acres. That drainage could be thousands of acres. 500 to 1000 acre inches is a lot when it is funneled into a slot canyon! Doing the conversion, that is 13 to 27 million gallons of water!
@@Viper-py4pg it happens lots in really dry places. The soil can go hydrophobic. I suppose someone from a wetter area might not be used to it. I'm not entirely sure on the cause but rocks and clay don't help, even though it still happens on sand.
it's always been a dream of mine to see "the racetrack" in Death Valley, but you need a 4WD high clearance vehicle which I never had access to. well, I spend like $300 to rent a Jeep for a day and it was bright and sunny, but by the time I got out to the playa (about a 2 hour drive), the weather had changed notably & flash flooding conditions were present. it was *exactly* what they warn you about - fast moving channels were forming all around us with no quick route to high ground. I thought about proceeding anyway, and looking back there is a 99.9999% chance I would have been fine. it turned out just a bunch of fast moving washes & blown out roads rather than one massive flood. but I still don't regret turning around. it wasn't worth it. I will see the racetrack one day.
@@dgronzega8073 The racetrack was a goal of mine until last year. I went to Death Valley, and realized that I have no desire to be anywhere off of the beaten path there. Good for you though, if you make it. It looks beautiful
20 people total lost their lives in that flood. 13 were killed in Hildale when two cars were swept off the road from that same flood, most were kids and one is still missing.
Zion is so beautiful, but you gotta be prepared with both supplies AND information. Zion is a desert slot canyon in a region known for intense, sudden springtime thunderstorms. This trip was in the spring, with a starting forecast of 40% chance of precipitation and a moderate flash flood risk. That's a lot risk to take on, and unfortunately not everyone survived. Stay weather aware if your are in any area prone to flash flooding. Check the forecast, follow warnings, and watch the sky around you. Tragic story, but excellent video.
I've done Keyhole Canyon before. Very fun canyon, but we were very paranoid about the potential for flash foods. You don't mess with flash foods in Utah.
This is why you need to have a backup plan when planning huge expeditions like this. There were a couple warnings, between the 40% precipitation chance and the recommendation not to go from the park official. They could've adapted their plan then and there to do something that would've taken them above ground where they would've been at least somewhat prepared in the event of rain. Of course there's no predicting things like this. But it brings to mind a saying I've heard among some slot canyon hikers: "A cloud in the sky, you just might die."
I agree! Monsoon storms are very powerful, better to park yourself under a sturdy roof and enjoy the sudden change in weather, the lightening, thunder, rain, hail from a safe distance! I always practice the saying learned from hiking the Sierra Nevadas, See a cloud before eleven ,stay off the ridges, see two, say see you!" Stay indoors.
Being out in the wilds can be a wonderful experience, BUT, Nature can throw you a curve at any time, with terrain, animals, weather, and a person not planning ahead in case of an emergency which could be a bad fall, a snakebite, a bear attack, so always have a Plan B prepared. And ALWAYS let someone at home know exactly where you are going and when you will return so that if you don't get back, they can instigate a search for you. (I always carry a small backpack or a fanny pack with water, a small first-aid kit, paper and pen, an ace bandage (a twisted ankle is a common injury) and of course a cell-phone is handy IF there is a cell tower near enough to pick up!) I even put something in the bag to tear up and leave a trail for searchers, but you can use piled rocks pointing your way, sticks, there are many survival tricks, so acquaint yourself with them before you go. Remember the rules of 3 in survival, water, shelter and food in that order!
It’s strange that the other group of 3 hikers also didn’t know the severity of the flash flood warning. I’m glad they made it out alive. For the others, RIP.
Tragic--RIP. I have done this canyon--it's short, only 3 rappels. Don't understand why they started so late--afternoon brings T-storms. That said, no one could have predicted this unless they were at the drop in when the dark clouds appeared. I saw a video of another flash flood in Behunin canyon. I have done that one too. Two canyoneers narrowly escaped death by climbing onto a small shelf above the last rap. Just enough room to avoid the powerful flow. They had to wait until the next day before doing the last drop.
When you focus on everything this group did right, its easy to see how lots of people in the outdoor community would make the same choices. Keyhole is a beginner level canyon, perfect for their skill level. All the right equipment was there including cold water protection. Training had taken place, which is more than can be said for lots of people doing the same activity. Weather radios where on hand and weather was checked before entering the canyon. Keyhole canyon has a small drainage and is a safe bet in most every situation except for a direct hit from a major storm. A group of 7 should be able to make it through the canyon in about 1.5 hrs. They'd seen perfect weather all day, it would be very conceivable the weather should stay nice enough for 1.5 more hours. Unfortunately, Utah weather is finicky and can quickly deteriorate. Yes, the park ranger warned them but the park rangers warn everybody who pick up a permit. They dutifully help canyoneers understand they are taking responsibility for their own choices. There is an inherent risk in venturing into canyons but that's partly what makes them so fun. The trick is managing the risk to an acceptable level. Which before this accident occurred, many people involved in exploring canyons would say this group had done all they could to responsibly manage their risk. Side note if you visit Utah, don't pronounce "Zion" the way the guy in the video says it....
Bryce, much of what you say is on point, but some is not: 1) They apparently had only one rope. This should *_never_* be the case for any multiple-rappel canyon as a simple matter of risk mitigation (e.g., consider stuck/damaged/lost-in-a-pool/etc. rope), but also for improving movement speed. 2) Keyhole Canyon definitely takes longer than 1.5 hours to do, car to car, for a total newbie group of 7, especially with only one rope, and not trying to actively push through quickly. 3) I've done many Zion canyons, including Keyhole several times. The rangers do *_not_* "always warn you" in the way described, i.e., "I wouldn't go today." (In fact, I have never heard them issue this warning when I've picked up permits. The one and only time that stands out to me as memorably exceptional to the standard liability/checklist form when picking up a permit was when I went through Heaps immediately after it'd reopened a couple years ago, following its long-time closure. And, I think that was very well justified rigorous grilling about the group's preparedness. I got the permit; we went; it was awesome but also by FAR the hardest conditions I'd ever seen the canyon in on my several trips through it. And, that's in the context of it being quite a demanding canyon even when it's in "easy mode". That trip I'd have to describe it as being in "extreme hard mode".) Yes, absolutely: That zy-ON pronunciation has always annoyed me (or the park's name's inexplicable pluralization to "Zions"). The pronunciation is ZY-un. Emphasis on the first syllable, soft second syllable.
That sounds like the last storm I went through in Utah. It was ferocious. Blinding rain and hail, 40 mph winds. I had to caravan with other truckers, 20 mph down the freeway, until we hit the Flying J at Beaver. I wouldn't have wanted to be in any sort of enclosed space during that.
Yes. Add to that the fact that in canyons like this, a storm can happen miles away and not appear to endanger you locally, yet the runoff can gather speed and power in the narrow canyons.
@@situated4 LoL nope, the people looked like people anywhere. As a side note, they sell I ❤️ Beaver stickers there and my company made me take it off. LoL Butch Cassidy would roll over in his grave.
For ANYONE who reads this in AZ the skies can be clear up until about an hour before the storm and thats on the top of a hill not i a canyon. Even more so rain far away can get you in AZ because of the shear amount of rain in a short time.
This terrible incident claimed the life of a sweet junior and high school classmate, Robin Brum. She was a standout athlete an academic high achiever and generally loved and popular throughout high school for her sweet & funny personality. Pretty sure she was homecoming princess a few times, too. Rest In Heavenly Peace, Robin.
A small group of us had waded up the Narrows several days prior to this event and were very much aware of a Tsunami off the West Coast of Mexico that could add to the likelihood of flash flooding. We started early knowing that flash flooding generally occurs in the afternoon. On a more personal note I knew and hiked with Don T the organizers of the Valencia Hiking Crew a few times and was deeply saddened by the loss, what a tragic event!!!
What always amazes me is how you can be killed by a storm you’ll never see, not because of limited sight while in the canyon but because the storm drops precipitation miles away.
I literally hiked Subway top down the month prior. On 8/9/15. I remember having that sense of urgency that no matter what the weather was going in, once in we wouldn’t have any signal to know about any flash flooding. I wish that they had that sense of urgency too.
Same. We hiked top down, staying overnight. That second day we were all a little nervous (and crazy vigilant!) because we had no idea if the weather forecast had stayed the same.
I love Zion. Always know your limits. The park is super open about the flood possibilities. I’ve never not gone there without them updating it daily. They’re good at it.
Bone chilling music really set the mood for this sad story, thank you for sharing this information with us, I personally knew 3 of those hikers, they are gone but never forgotten. RIP Keyhole 7.
I live in Southern Utah and can attest to the jaw dropping canyons views and mountain ranges. Btw, Zion was not at fault, you'd be surprised at the chances some people take, I guess thinking it won't happen to me.
Chilling story. My husband and I had just moved to Rockville, a little town of 248 people and just 6 miles from Zion, just two weeks before this happened. If I heard right, you said it was Sept 2014. But I'm fairly certain it was 2015 since we moved to Rockville the end of August 2015. (Just in case you want to make a correction to your video.) It was a very sad time. Flash flooding killed nearly 30 people all together in different places during that weather system.
@@Abagel44 Sorry to hear that. When i die i hope its doing something i love in awe of nature. I have lost climber buddies, and it is hard, but we all know we live near the edge..... and THAT is living.
Anyone who lives in the Southwest should know NEVER to hike in any flood-prone areas after noon in the summer. Ever, regardless of forecast. Mornings only...
I remember hearing about this when it happened. I have done Keyhole Canyon and Pine Creek (before this happened) below it and can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be in there with a ton of water coming down. The stagnant water gets extremely cold when it never sees the sun and you need wetsuits for that, even when the weather itself is dry and hot. I imagine that if the water was rushing through there, it would knock you off your feet pretty quickly and wash you over the numerous drops. pretty scary to think about.
During a monsoon storm only 2.5cm (one inch) of water will knock you off your feet on level ground. The speed of the water and the pressure of the water behind it is immense, the debri in the water is even more dangerous! Add that to the steep angle of those canon walls and you can imagine the speed and sheer terror that happened. My idea about monsoon season is stay on high ground, in a safe dry building and enjoy the thunder and lightning, vast amounts of rain and wind while eating a freshly made s'more!
My group called it "the stink hole" because of the stagnent water we had to wade through. 110°+ up top, maybe 50° down in the bottom, strange sensation shivering amidst record breaking heat
What a sad story ... they were so unprepared and ignorant of the dangers there .... but all picts have a smile on their faces .... not one survived ...
I got caught in a flash flood while my friend and I were riding our dirt bikes in a deep channel. We couldn’t outrun it! My buddy’s bike went all the way under but was still running and we got him and the bike out! I made it out by riding up a nearly straight up wall of dirt ! That water is nothing to mess with!
In California IN THE DESERT my friend that ran a tow truck company went on a recovery for BLM. There was a motor home that parked in a wash because it was nice and smooth. Why do you think it’s called a wash? That motorhome was just washed away in the middle of the night when the rains came… all they found was the frame with only one front wheel still attached. Nothing else- Just the frame and one wheel. The rest was stripped away and they never found any trace of that family. Those people in Zion were mostly found in debris piles- when you get hit,it’s like a tsunami. All that debris churning becomes something like a meat grinder. It’s not just water.
Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child wrote a book years ago called Thunderhead. It was the first time I had ever even heard about flash floods in slot canyons and IT. WAS. TERRIFYING. I have had a morbid curiosity and very healthy fear of them since. This video reinforced that fear tremendously.
The canyons are the lows spot, so even if it’s raining miles away, that water is coming to you. It rarely rains there and the sun cooks the ground, so when it does rain the water doesn’t seep into the ground. The canyons look the way they do for a reason.
Sparse cloud a few miles away. Low chance of rain in the immediate area. Reached I think the 3rd rappel of a simple slot and noticed a slight sprinkle. Decided to not finish and moved back up to a higher spot. A bit of rain for a few minutes and pretty soon there was a knee deep muddy water rushing down the canyon. Doesn't sound intense but knowing what the rest of the canyon looked like, it would have been bad news. Watch the weather and don't take the chance.
There are some great videos of the slot canyons of Page, Az. flooded with water just rushing in. You really need to see these images to understand just how helpless you'd be. It also really gives you a great visual for how the slots canyons are created too. Some of the most jaw dropping video's I've ever seen
What's sad is I'm sure their drive to continue despite the warning was fueled by the fact that the activity was already planned. What a terrible reason to risk your life. No one wants to be humbled by nature and just reschedule the trip. I'm not Judging them. I've been there and learned my lesson and luckily i lived so that I could learn.
The fact they planned this trip in advance but then WAITED until the day of the trip to be trained to rapel says all you need to know about their lack of experience.
Anytime you go out for a hike you take a risk whatever it could be and always take advice from the staff at the visitor centre when he said " I wouldn't go today " that is all you need to know
RIP. The slot canyons are no joke, but yet so much adventure. The key is to have a good professional guide, we did that at Moab, where professional canyoneering guides are allowed to lead your group. Not sure why that's not allowed at Zion.
Those canyons, though beautiful in the dry, are actually carved by exactly that sudden kind of torrent of water. Those poor folks would not have been able to see what the weather was doing outside of their section, until the rain started. Then it would have come upon them in a sudden assault. What a harrowing way to die. Very traumatic for the search and recovery teams to find them all to bring their bodies home to their families. I hope that they are given PTSD counselling.
Such a beautiful place, you can understand there want to go and explore. But they were told that day by the person who gave them the permit ‘ I wouldn’t go today ‘, I think that should of been warning enough to really explore the weather forecast. Just one of those unfortunate accidents! :(
So destressing to see those beautiful happy people lose their lives on an excursion that was supposed to be pleasant. A horrible terrifying experience with thoughts of their loved ones back home.
40% is only moderate to weathermen. Arizonans know that 40% is a decent chance. When you consider that these slot canyons funnel storms for great distances this increases the chance further. They should have been prepared with time scenarios that they adhered to religiously.
Flash flooding can happen any time out west. Afternoon thunderstorms are very common any time in mountain country. A creek that's normally just small will become a roaring river in no time. One person who was suppose to be qualified did a poor job in my opinion.
My dad was in this group, I’ve never heard that a ranger told them not to go. They may not have been experienced canyoneering but all had so so so much experience at hiking, bouldering etc.
Amanda, I am sorry that this happened to you, but they were definitely warned. There are four tiers of flash flood forecasts: "Not Expected"; "Probable"; and Expected. I have been canyoneering in Zion for 35 years and I have never not heard the rangers warn someone when you get the permit and that there is a chance of rain and if the forecast is anything but "not expected". Now days though they warn you even when it is not expected. Even if this one ranger accidentally forgot to tell the group (extremely unlikely), the flash flood forecast is always written/printed on the whiteboard at the backcountry office. Although it isn't in the video, the instructors have all said that they told them they shouldn't go. One of my friends also met the group back at camp and talked with them before the accident. It was the supposedly experienced member of the group who convinced the rest of the group that "it didn't look that bad" and the others went along with him. I am very sorry that this happened and my heart breaks for you, but the group was warned no less than three times before going to the canyon. Bad luck played a part too as others have done the same and got away with it.
@@scottpatterson8896 thank you for clarifying that. When I was still climbing, I got a lot of pressure once to reach the summit (rainier). But I had seen enough of the inexperience of some of the rest of the team and lack of important items. I decided I could summit another day. What a mess that trip was.
Yeah, they didn't listen to the local... A lot of people don't. Here's something a lot of folks don't get about that entire region of the states. The weather is really different there. A lot of rain "showers" don't ever reach the ground. It's hot and dry enough that the rain falls but evaporates before hitting the ground and you just feel par-boiled in your clothes. SO there is NO SUCH THING as a polite "soaking rain"... It's either a torrent or nothing... give or take a sudden spike in humidity. ...or rather... a "soaking rain shower" like you might expect about anywhere else in the world is a REALLY REALLY RARE thing there. SO any kind of precipitation carries an exponentially higher risk of flooding somewhere... Whether it's exactly "flash flooding" or just the slow easy kind to deal with is highly dependent on the particular territory and its geological makeup. Even regular canyons flood pretty quickly compared to just about anything you're probably used to... AND slot canyons flood faster than you can even realize something is wrong... SO by the time you reckon you're in trouble, you're just about doomed. AND for you folks who are either native to that territory or frequent it enough to presume "But everybody knows that." No... Actually everybody does NOT understand that. A lot of the world (including a lot of the rest of the U.S.) has a relatively peaceful kind of rain shower, and it can last days without being more than a petty nuisance of just being wet... To many of us outside of that region, a "flash flood" can raise maybe an inch an hour and be described as "incredibly fast"... It's nothing like being in a slot canyon where the water level can jump several feet in the time it takes to look around suspiciously. Many don't have a clue just how quickly they can already be screwed and still not know it. ;o)
Nah, it's not quantity that's the problem. After all, a monsoon rainstorm in Utah doesn't hold a candle to an afternoon thunderstorm in Florida for quantity of rain. The problem is the sandstone and the lack of soil. Basically the southern Utah sandstone can absorb about 30% of its surface area in rain which isn't much. After it's saturated there's nowhere for the water to go except downstream in a torrent. Once saturated, the sandstone might as well be glass or steel as it won't absorb another drop and everything just flows right off of it. In other mountainous areas the rock and soil can absorb significantly more rain before becoming saturated. That - combined with the slot canyons themselves - make flash floods in Utah so deadly.
I don't know why everyone always tries to blame the National Parks like they're some kind of babysitters. These are grown men and women who assessed their own risks and made their own decisions. You have to be willing to accept those risks as part of the adventure community, otherwise we turn these places into Disneyland. There's already too many handrails and warning signs and stupid man-made crap ruining these landscapes as it is. I'm sorry that the group lost their lives that day but I say, just let it be.
I wouldn't go anywhere near a slot canyon in Zion if there is even a chance of rain. I've backpacked the Narrows and many others alone. If a ranger told me not to go, I would freaking listen.
The two videos in this video are from Jerry Arizona, who makes excellent hiking/canyoneering videos. Keyhole Canyon - Zion National Park - Flash flood conditions th-cam.com/video/gMAIsdF-LVc/w-d-xo.html Keyhole Canyon - Zion National Park th-cam.com/video/RPWD73J8TGM/w-d-xo.html
@Morbid Midnight Although I first noticed the incorrect date in the voice-over, thanks for correcting it in the description. BTW, I deleted my previous response due to the totally irrelevant comments. Why do folks need to twist any positive comment to fit into their own agendas? Talk about a lack of civility... (Feel free to delete this comment)
That canyon is one of the shortest canyons (can be done in 30-60 minutes). It is easy to have a false sense of confidence that you can outrun any storm.
So I worked on a fishing boat in New England and I would have to work basically 6 days a week all spring summer fall. So I remember similar situations where all my friends had weekends off and they would plan a big offshore fishing trip like Friday nite till sat nite just stay out fish for 24 hours and they would be so gung ho cause they only had one day to go. And I would start listening to the mating weather on Monday and the forecast would get worst and worst every day and they don’t care they think I’m lieing. So I would say. “Hey u guys might wanna reschedule cause the Atlantic isn’t goin to be nice this weekend. But they said we can handle it. And I would back out. Cause I knew exactly what was gonna happen. Like they had one shot to get into that canyon and didn’t car what the forecast said. King story short they got the boat ready for the supplies got the bait. Left Connecticut pass montauk then 40 miles till the spot. And in the dark nonetheless. They tried. But they had the near death experience. 24ft center counsel waves were so bad took 6 hours to go 20 miles then decide this is bad and turn around and come back at 6 knots. No atheists on the boat that nite. I had the cliché line. “Told ya so”. Dumbasses
Flash Floods & Falls: Deaths & Rescues in Zion National Park : a book by Bo Beck and Dave Nally was published in 2013, two years before these inexperienced hikers chose to go. Even a 5 minute Google search would have showed them previous deaths in Zion National Park over the years.
I blame the leader Mr McKenzie who was TOLD by a ranger 40% chance of rain and that the ranger wouldn’t go if it were him.. yet he still went back the group didn’t say anything and went on with the trip That guy got his poor friends killed Damn that story was frustrating to listen to
The narrator did not say that he did not say anything to the others about the warning, He maybe did and they all decided to take a chance given that the weather was fine till last. Ultimately every adult is responsible for their own decision to do things in life. I don't think anyone was forced to do the excursion. That guy did not got anyone killed IMO, life is a risky and transient thing, deal with it
You hear it in the first 2 1/2 minutes. 40 % chance of rain. If thr one guy who was experienced in canyon hiking in this group really knew anything about hiking "the slots", he would have told his friends, "Sorry guys, bad Idea today. We'll try another day". You just don't do it. Even if the ranger had not told them it was a bad idea, he should have known that. Maybe if they started calling these events suicide, instead of disasters, people might start paying attention. Disaster sounds like an uncontrollable event caused by nature and takes the onus off the humans.
Yep. The usual "simple rule of thumb" I've always heard for Southwest canyons is that if the forecast reaches 20% chance of precipitation, you cancel the trip.
From downstream you can hike up .Keyhole canyon is the beginning of the actual slot type canyon. They chose the more technical descent. I did the lower descent over boulders on a talus slope. This was in '92 unassisted.
Not allowing a commercial guide makes zero sense to me. Another famous US slot canyon, Antelope Canyon, also had a major tragedy in the 90’s due to flash flooding and 11 people were killed. Since then, you can ONLY go in with a commercial guide.
Thanks for the description of events and the photos to go around with it. I remember when this happened. I think about what we can learn and change from this experience. 1. I've come to learn that anything over 10% chance is not worth it, especially if it is a chance for thunderstorms. 2. I'm not critical of the NPS, they are my favorite government agency. I think saying "I wouldn't go" is enough for experienced people, but not enough for some. I think adding, "there's a good chance of a deadly, you are going to die, flash flood". Might be helpful. 3. 10 people could have died that day. Remember there were 3 lucky "experienced" canyoneers that could have had the same fate.
There are two things about this story that make no sense whatsoever... 1) They planned this trip months in advance but then waited until the day of the hike to take rappelling lessons, and 2) a ranger said 'he wouldn't go today" but still issued them a permit.
In those areas the precipitation where you are at isn’t as the amount of precipitation further up in the canyons. You may not get rain, but if they received a gully washer up from your location you are in danger.
The lead person was told by the person issuing the pass, “I wouldn’t go today.” That’s good enough for me to change my mind! He works there; he knows what he’s talking about!
Its very easy to decide not to go in theory. But in practice, it is much harder. For months you had planned this awesome canyoneering adventure filled with great anticipation and excitement. You then traveled many hours to get there, paid several hundred dollars to take a class and then after all that the ranger recommends not go because of flood warnings. Yet when you look up, you see picture perfect blue skies. You decide to at least go check out the canyon and still nothing but blue skies. Turning around at that point is unlikely. That is why today the rangers don't just provide recommendations, but instead will not issue permits to anyone if the weather is enough of a threat. The Keyhole 7 as they are called changed much of the way the park operates.
@@brandensilverstar This one was right on the money. No negligence or malice.
Some adults understand they are more mentally capable than others so what one perceives as unpleasant may not feel the same to them. Nevertheless, I think it unwise to lead people to hike into flash floods.
@@canyonwonder " For months you had planned this awesome canyoneering adventure filled with great anticipation and excitement. You then traveled many hours to get there, paid several hundred dollars to take a class". If they had really planned ahead, they would have taken the class months earlier, not the morning of. Also they should have researched the danger, speed and odds of flash floods occurring. Lastly, they would have tried to get some experience canyoning a safer canyon long before they attempted this.
This happened in 2015, but a simple internet search would have found the story of 14 year-old Shawn Ellis and his fellow scouts watching helplessly as their scout leader was drowned in front of them in a whirlpool, shortly after Ellis' father drowned during the flash flooding in 2014. And this wasn't the first time flash flooding killed people in the canyon. In 2013 Dave Nally published Flash Floods and Falls: Deaths and Rescues in Zion National Park, featuring personal accounts from Bo Beck, a senior Zion Search and Rescue member for over 17 years.
it won't look like rain in the area. the flooding comes from rainany miles away
I'm a canyoneer with more than 15 years of experience who has a house in Zion Canyon and has done all of the canyons requiring permits at least one time each plus many other canyons in the area that don't require permits. I've been caught a few times in downpours that were not forecasted by the weather folks. Any time you enter a canyon, you should plan for the worst, and make sure everyone knows what to do if it occurs. Entering a canyon like keyhole with only one rope is crazy even without the danger of flash floods (yes, ropes sometimes get stuck in cracks and you might need a spare or two). And entering a canyon without each person knowing what possible high ground and escape routes exist is crazy as well. Keyhole actually has an escape route in the mid-section, something that might have been reachable by at least some of the party if they had two ropes. With that said, it's always a dangerous undertaking to go through a space that would be deadly if unexpectedly filled with flowing water, so speed in moving from one safe zone to another should be a priority. Imagine yourself in a city drainage system with few outlets, spaced far and wide. Would you doddle? Move fast, take your photos quickly, and relax and safely enjoy them at your car afterwards!
Looks like they were definitely taking their times
shit can i pay you for parking to hike, i refuse to pay zion ponderosa $5 to drive me 2 miles up a dirt road
Thank you for the advice.
If you are doing any sort of hiking in the southwest, you NEED to familiarize yourself with the Monsoon. “The day started with blue skies and no clouds”…..I have lived in Southern Arizona my entire life, some of the craziest storms we can get usually occur on days where the skies begin completely clear. That really allows the sun to heat the ground quickly and make the air extremely unstable. Storms can form and dump 2-3 inches of rain in less than an hour.
This. After spending lots of time in Utah and Colorado, do your activities on clear mornings because afternoons are wildly unpredictable.
“ I wouldn’t go today” (with unqualified bunch of friends).
Sometimes people are their own worst enemy.
Those rangers are blunt and real. I went up and the ranger was like “the conditions aren’t great and you’re group doesn’t look like they’d be able to handle it”. I was shocked by that comment but hell yes I am listening to the rangers. We definitely changed plans to an easier route that they recommended for us. Zion’s slot canyons are insane!
@@TopShelfBoxWine whats shocking about that comment? pretty level headed and straightforward really.
Oh yes it’s not enough respect for Mother Nature…
@@daminox the thing is the rain could have originated many miles from canyon.
Well, it sounds dumb, but if you only have 4 days off work and will be packing up that night to drive to the next campground, I can see how the “meh, it will be fine” bias kicks in.
What’s really sad is that storm ultimately killed about 24 people. You had the 7 people in Zion NP, and then another 17 people were killed in the flash flooding in Hildale, Utah by the same thunderstorm. What happened in Hildale was particularly sad, as entire families were swept to their deaths in those floods, including a number of children.
:(
😭😭😭☠️☠️☠️
That’s very sad god rest their souls.
Satans water slide
So sad
When the Park Ranger tells you it's not a good idea and says "I wouldn't go today" and 8 of the 9 people have NEVER done this style of exploration, THAT'S ALL I WOULD NEED TO HEAR!!! NOBODY would be going that day!!!!
You are my kind of hiking /adventure partner! I always err on the side of caution!
@@christinemeleg4535 absolutely. In this instance it cost 9 people their lives. Its not just a nice walk along a dusty trail. They were brand new to this terrain and they weren't even at a novice level. It was a stupid decision on behalf of the team leader. A bit of thinking goes a long way
As I was watching the same thought occurred to me. It's best to ALWAYS trust the local experts. Why would they say otherwise? Sad story overall 😞
There were seven in the group, six of whom weren’t even rated as novices. The team leader was cavalier about the dangers by ignoring the park official’s warning.
@@davidlang1125 yes and maybe if one of the team's other leaders went with him and or showed concern the others might of said "let's go for a nice hike up Observation point.
My wife and I were in Zion and playing in the water with some other people on a beautiful sunny day. A ranger came by and told us to get of the water as a flash flood was coming from a storm miles away. Everyone got out and 10-15 minutes later a 4 foot high wall of water came rushing down. We were all safe, but a man farther down drowned as he did not get out of the water.
Wow thanks for sharing. A lesson for me on listening.
I am not claustrophobic, usually, but I don't like being "walled in" in a deep narrow canyon with steep sides, it;s just a recipe for disaster if water comes, there's NO where to go! There are MANY places out in the wilds that can be dangerous, from animals to weather to landslides, avalanches, and a person should ALWAYS know about those dangers BEFORE going to those places. And if a ranger or other person suggests that you NOT go, there's probably a very good reason to heed that warning!
@@mjleger4555 It rains like 10 times a year. If there’s a 40% chance of rain, there’s a 100% and barely 5 min of rain is enough to cause flashflooding because the ground absorbs nothing and the water just keeps going like a tsunami.
Yeah right
@@stephenbrady5220 Precisely why we're seeing flooding in so many places now, like Utah, because due to the draught and global warming, the ground is too dried hard and solid to allow water absorption, so it just runs off and floods low-lying places. I wouldn't take the chance, I don't care if it is a one in ten chance, not good enough odds for me!
Absolutely heartbreaking. I knew Don Teichner and had hiked with him many times. Still can't believe they are all gone :(.
So sorry
Rest in peace 🕊️
Gone from earth but not forever, that man is happy as he can be after ascending
I hiked with Don too. He was so amazing. Knew names of new people on his hikes. Made everyone feel welcomed. Collected trash as we hiked. Such a beautiful person. What a loss.
Mother Nature Boy… Wooooooooo
Myself and my Nephew hiked the Narrows the day the rain started. Our schedule was taking us to Bryce Canyon that day and we had actually debated staying to capture video footage from high ground, but ultimately decided to move on to Bryce. We heard about the people who died when we returned home. So tragic!
A few inches of water in a flash flood is powerful enough to send somebody to their death (I lost a cousin that way when he got swept off his feet into a drainage ditch) All that water bearing down on those poor terrified people? I cannot even imagine being one moment in a beautify canyon and one moment have it turn into rapids.
My auntie and I literally experienced it at the Grand Canyon. It started raining and writhing SECONDS it was a huge flash flood. It’s definitely something that will catch you off guard. Especially if you’re not from the area. Where I’m from in Minnesota, we don’t get flash floods too often. Let alone that quickly.
Because all the rain falling in the entire area is gathering to that one location. Sometimes the canyon will be dry but weather from a higher location will cause flash floods.
@@tiatokkesdal1745 Hello 👋 I'm glad You and your Auntie made it back home safe from Grand Canyon 🕊️🎼☮️🌻
A few? More like an inch....
@@Zgarnet777 Thank You so much Susie! It was definitely scary but also such an eye opener. i appreciate your kindness🙏🏽
Always listen to the people who work there
This is in Southern Utah. Because of the terrain (not only in Zion, but many, many places in Utah), it could be raining miles from where you are, and a flash flood/debris flow will travel miles down the local washes. One not only has to check the weather where you are, but up-mountain or terrain from where you are.
Remember, you're on your own. You are responsible for your own welfare and safety. Almost everything you do in the wilderness is at your own risk...
Right. 👍👏
This ain't DisneyLand
I love exploring and have done a lot of it, but if a local authority says don't go somewhere, I'm not arguing or going anyway, because THEY know what they are talking about! I love life too much to risk mine!
Interesting weather note for people, a 50% chance of rain doesn't mean its a 50/50 if it's gonna rain or not. It's actually a 100% chance that 50% of the area will experience rain, which is why the flood risk was so high.
I live in a wet area and once it gets to 20% chance of rain we don't bother getting out of bed
There is an old Punjabi saying: it’s always the swimmer that drowns.
Someone who isn’t that confident won’t get in troubled waters. It’s a very sad loss of competent people.
I remember when this happened. And their loss of life has made me a much more cautious person when canyoneering.
Also, if a ranger tells you they wouldn't do a hike or canyon or whatever, LISTEN TO THEM.
instead of warning and telling people, why not just cancel any hikes if he said its not good to go out..? dont give people any choice.... by saying dont go out is like daring people to go..
@@josephsaeteurn9158 Do you know how much chaos people rose when the US government tried to force them to wear masks? People don't care if youre trying to safe their lives. They value their "freedom" and "rights".
When is you time to go it's you time. Someday yoh will understand
My family and I used to backpack a lot in the Sierra Nevadas. I learned several things from that. first, no matter how much you plan for the unexpected, you never plan enough. second, listen to the rangers, and then listen to what they´re not saying. Not all of them feel people are their first priority (not saying this is the case of the worker warning this group AT ALL). Third; Leave the city, enter the food chain. all bets are off. It´s sad that you get people who make it necessary for parks to have to put in disclaimer clauses, but then again, there are people who climbover fences in front of waterfalls and ignore warnings in picture form of what can happen if they do. Yeah. And, fourth: Don´t assume the worst of people, but use common sense. If you meet someone in the middle of nowhere and your instincts scream at you to get away, get away. Big foot may not exist, but psychopaths definitely do.
Grew up in the woods and that’s what have always said… nuts LOVE the secrecy of the woods. The city is much safer than the middle of a forest.
@@daisycocoa2557 not if your self sufficient and there are alot more crazy evil people in cities
@@daisycocoa2557 I grew up in the middle of the forest too, I loved it then, still do, Am I a "nut"? NO!! A retired Girl Scout who always hikes and ventures deeper in to the forest as safely as possible. Many less psychotics where I hike, than in the city.
thanks for spouting your ideas, but you can keep them to yourself. you are dictating to people..”don’t do this” and “don’t assume this.” shut up.
* sociopaths
I used to drive down a road to work in a canyon carved by flash floods. During monsoon season here in the West I refuse to drive down that road when the storms are a possibility. I have seen two actual flash floods sweep by, I turned around and went home, my cousin was stunned when he drove down with me , he is a rapid water civil engineer, I remember his words "Do you ever think about this canyon when you drive?" I reassured him that I do as I turn around to higher ground and go home! Never think you can over come what Nature has planned, you will be a mere number on the morgue list.
A truly sad & wild story.
I honestly feel like I probably came across that same park ranger. I went to Zion do do the subway hike and weather said 15% chance of rain & it was 93 deg that day. The ranger warned me & my buddy n straight up said keep an eye on the clouds, if you see dark clouds turn around & get out or you won’t make it. Like clockwork we stopped the hike 1.25 miles from the subway, we got out n grab some beers n burgers. Then boom massive storm came in, we would have been toast if we decided to “finish” which would have finished us. Props to that park ranger who keeps it real & gives that warning. I honestly think, things would have been a lot different had I not gotten my permit from him.
Having lived out west for over 20 year, I can tell you if it says above 30% chance of weather, there will be weather. It may not be a full on storm, but it will put something onto the ground. Slot canyons scare the crap outta me. As do dry washes, where you see people setting up camp in them all the time.
While the soil may be dry as a bone, when the rain hits it, the soil either quickly sucks up what it can or it repels the water until it does hydrate. It is very weird to see how much water collects on a wide open area and begins flowing to the washes. It might as well be a paved parking lot. So, a small storm that might drop a half inch of water is going to accumulate over many acres. That drainage could be thousands of acres. 500 to 1000 acre inches is a lot when it is funneled into a slot canyon! Doing the conversion, that is 13 to 27 million gallons of water!
That's crazy about the water just collecting above dry ground so quickly. Thanks for sharing!
@@Viper-py4pg it happens lots in really dry places. The soil can go hydrophobic. I suppose someone from a wetter area might not be used to it. I'm not entirely sure on the cause but rocks and clay don't help, even though it still happens on sand.
it's always been a dream of mine to see "the racetrack" in Death Valley, but you need a 4WD high clearance vehicle which I never had access to. well, I spend like $300 to rent a Jeep for a day and it was bright and sunny, but by the time I got out to the playa (about a 2 hour drive), the weather had changed notably & flash flooding conditions were present. it was *exactly* what they warn you about - fast moving channels were forming all around us with no quick route to high ground. I thought about proceeding anyway, and looking back there is a 99.9999% chance I would have been fine. it turned out just a bunch of fast moving washes & blown out roads rather than one massive flood. but I still don't regret turning around. it wasn't worth it. I will see the racetrack one day.
No shame in turning around 😎
@@dgronzega8073 The racetrack was a goal of mine until last year. I went to Death Valley, and realized that I have no desire to be anywhere off of the beaten path there. Good for you though, if you make it. It looks beautiful
Been to the racetrack many times. You do not need 4WD - it is a decently graded 25 mile road. Most any passenger car can make the trip.
20 people total lost their lives in that flood. 13 were killed in Hildale when two cars were swept off the road from that same flood, most were kids and one is still missing.
WOW, thanks for the additional info, that is horrifying.
21 people. there was a man from hurricane Utah who was caught in the flood downstream from hildale.
@@vjs4539 that's right. I totally forgot about him.
@Jasen Vernor 20 confirmed and one still missing. It was a 6 year old boy and they have never found his body.
@@Blackfeather3222004 maybe he's alive
Zion is so beautiful, but you gotta be prepared with both supplies AND information. Zion is a desert slot canyon in a region known for intense, sudden springtime thunderstorms.
This trip was in the spring, with a starting forecast of 40% chance of precipitation and a moderate flash flood risk.
That's a lot risk to take on, and unfortunately not everyone survived. Stay weather aware if your are in any area prone to flash flooding. Check the forecast, follow warnings, and watch the sky around you.
Tragic story, but excellent video.
Reminds me of Everest. Climbers get so close, so focused on success they are unable to heed warnings of weather conditions, constraints of time.
I've done Keyhole Canyon before. Very fun canyon, but we were very paranoid about the potential for flash foods. You don't mess with flash foods in Utah.
Very paranoid. 40%, that narrow with repels…as in no way Jose.
I believe flash foods went out of business in the 80s, but don’t quote me on that!
This is why you need to have a backup plan when planning huge expeditions like this. There were a couple warnings, between the 40% precipitation chance and the recommendation not to go from the park official. They could've adapted their plan then and there to do something that would've taken them above ground where they would've been at least somewhat prepared in the event of rain. Of course there's no predicting things like this. But it brings to mind a saying I've heard among some slot canyon hikers: "A cloud in the sky, you just might die."
I agree! Monsoon storms are very powerful, better to park yourself under a sturdy roof and enjoy the sudden change in weather, the lightening, thunder, rain, hail from a safe distance! I always practice the saying learned from hiking the Sierra Nevadas, See a cloud before eleven ,stay off the ridges, see two, say see you!" Stay indoors.
Being out in the wilds can be a wonderful experience, BUT, Nature can throw you a curve at any time, with terrain, animals, weather, and a person not planning ahead in case of an emergency which could be a bad fall, a snakebite, a bear attack, so always have a Plan B prepared. And ALWAYS let someone at home know exactly where you are going and when you will return so that if you don't get back, they can instigate a search for you.
(I always carry a small backpack or a fanny pack with water, a small first-aid kit, paper and pen, an ace bandage (a twisted ankle is a common injury) and of course a cell-phone is handy IF there is a cell tower near enough to pick up!) I even put something in the bag to tear up and leave a trail for searchers, but you can use piled rocks pointing your way, sticks, there are many survival tricks, so acquaint yourself with them before you go. Remember the rules of 3 in survival, water, shelter and food in that order!
It’s strange that the other group of 3 hikers also didn’t know the severity of the flash flood warning. I’m glad they made it out alive. For the others, RIP.
Tragic--RIP. I have done this canyon--it's short, only 3 rappels. Don't understand why they started so late--afternoon brings T-storms. That said, no one could have predicted this unless they were at the drop in when the dark clouds appeared. I saw a video of another flash flood in Behunin canyon. I have done that one too. Two canyoneers narrowly escaped death by climbing onto a small shelf above the last rap. Just enough room to avoid the powerful flow. They had to wait until the next day before doing the last drop.
When you focus on everything this group did right, its easy to see how lots of people in the outdoor community would make the same choices. Keyhole is a beginner level canyon, perfect for their skill level. All the right equipment was there including cold water protection. Training had taken place, which is more than can be said for lots of people doing the same activity. Weather radios where on hand and weather was checked before entering the canyon. Keyhole canyon has a small drainage and is a safe bet in most every situation except for a direct hit from a major storm. A group of 7 should be able to make it through the canyon in about 1.5 hrs. They'd seen perfect weather all day, it would be very conceivable the weather should stay nice enough for 1.5 more hours. Unfortunately, Utah weather is finicky and can quickly deteriorate. Yes, the park ranger warned them but the park rangers warn everybody who pick up a permit. They dutifully help canyoneers understand they are taking responsibility for their own choices. There is an inherent risk in venturing into canyons but that's partly what makes them so fun. The trick is managing the risk to an acceptable level. Which before this accident occurred, many people involved in exploring canyons would say this group had done all they could to responsibly manage their risk. Side note if you visit Utah, don't pronounce "Zion" the way the guy in the video says it....
One can gamble with one's life, not other's.
The problem with a lot of these people is that they lack the most important piece of equipment of all COMMON SENSE!
What's wrong with the way he said it?
@@Geronimo2Fly you say it zai-yen, not zai-ahn.
Bryce, much of what you say is on point, but some is not:
1) They apparently had only one rope. This should *_never_* be the case for any multiple-rappel canyon as a simple matter of risk mitigation (e.g., consider stuck/damaged/lost-in-a-pool/etc. rope), but also for improving movement speed.
2) Keyhole Canyon definitely takes longer than 1.5 hours to do, car to car, for a total newbie group of 7, especially with only one rope, and not trying to actively push through quickly.
3) I've done many Zion canyons, including Keyhole several times. The rangers do *_not_* "always warn you" in the way described, i.e., "I wouldn't go today."
(In fact, I have never heard them issue this warning when I've picked up permits. The one and only time that stands out to me as memorably exceptional to the standard liability/checklist form when picking up a permit was when I went through Heaps immediately after it'd reopened a couple years ago, following its long-time closure. And, I think that was very well justified rigorous grilling about the group's preparedness. I got the permit; we went; it was awesome but also by FAR the hardest conditions I'd ever seen the canyon in on my several trips through it. And, that's in the context of it being quite a demanding canyon even when it's in "easy mode". That trip I'd have to describe it as being in "extreme hard mode".)
Yes, absolutely: That zy-ON pronunciation has always annoyed me (or the park's name's inexplicable pluralization to "Zions"). The pronunciation is ZY-un. Emphasis on the first syllable, soft second syllable.
Not surprising, unfortunately, that people just don't listen. Anyway, great, as always. Thank you 😊
That sounds like the last storm I went through in Utah. It was ferocious. Blinding rain and hail, 40 mph winds. I had to caravan with other truckers, 20 mph down the freeway, until we hit the Flying J at Beaver. I wouldn't have wanted to be in any sort of enclosed space during that.
Did you end up in a town of little people living near a yellow brick road?
Yes. Add to that the fact that in canyons like this, a storm can happen miles away and not appear to endanger you locally, yet the runoff can gather speed and power in the narrow canyons.
@@situated4 LoL nope, the people looked like people anywhere. As a side note, they sell
I ❤️ Beaver stickers there and my company made me take it off. LoL Butch Cassidy would roll over in his grave.
For ANYONE who reads this in AZ the skies can be clear up until about an hour before the storm and thats on the top of a hill not i a canyon. Even more so rain far away can get you in AZ because of the shear amount of rain in a short time.
This terrible incident claimed the life of a sweet junior and high school classmate, Robin Brum. She was a standout athlete an academic high achiever and generally loved and popular throughout high school for her sweet & funny personality. Pretty sure she was homecoming princess a few times, too. Rest In Heavenly Peace, Robin.
Fox!
Yup lived there for years. People don’t REALLY understand how dangerous it can be. 🤔
A small group of us had waded up the Narrows several days prior to this event and were very much aware of a Tsunami off the West Coast of Mexico that could add to the likelihood of flash flooding. We started early knowing that flash flooding generally occurs in the afternoon. On a more personal note I knew and hiked with Don T the organizers of the Valencia Hiking Crew a few times and was deeply saddened by the loss, what a tragic event!!!
What always amazes me is how you can be killed by a storm you’ll never see, not because of limited sight while in the canyon but because the storm drops precipitation miles away.
I literally hiked Subway top down the month prior. On 8/9/15. I remember having that sense of urgency that no matter what the weather was going in, once in we wouldn’t have any signal to know about any flash flooding. I wish that they had that sense of urgency too.
Same. We hiked top down, staying overnight. That second day we were all a little nervous (and crazy vigilant!) because we had no idea if the weather forecast had stayed the same.
I love Zion. Always know your limits. The park is super open about the flood possibilities. I’ve never not gone there without them updating it daily. They’re good at it.
Bone chilling music really set the mood for this sad story, thank you for sharing this information with us, I personally knew 3 of those hikers, they are gone but never forgotten. RIP Keyhole 7.
I live in Southern Utah and can attest to the jaw dropping canyons views and mountain ranges. Btw, Zion was not at fault, you'd be surprised at the chances some people take, I guess thinking it won't happen to me.
Great video. I love hearing a recount of an event that I’ve never heard of before. Bravo 👏🏻
Chilling story. My husband and I had just moved to Rockville, a little town of 248 people and just 6 miles from Zion, just two weeks before this happened. If I heard right, you said it was Sept 2014. But I'm fairly certain it was 2015 since we moved to Rockville the end of August 2015. (Just in case you want to make a correction to your video.) It was a very sad time. Flash flooding killed nearly 30 people all together in different places during that weather system.
You’re correct, Sept 2015.. my dad was in this group!
@@Abagel44 I'm so sorry for your loss. That must have been/still is, so hard.
@@Abagel44 Sorry for your loss. 😢
@@Abagel44 Sorry to hear that. When i die i hope its doing something i love in awe of nature. I have lost climber buddies, and it is hard, but we all know we live near the edge..... and THAT is living.
Anyone who lives in the Southwest should know NEVER to hike in any flood-prone areas after noon in the summer. Ever, regardless of forecast. Mornings only...
I remember hearing about this when it happened. I have done Keyhole Canyon and Pine Creek (before this happened) below it and can't imagine how terrifying it would be to be in there with a ton of water coming down. The stagnant water gets extremely cold when it never sees the sun and you need wetsuits for that, even when the weather itself is dry and hot. I imagine that if the water was rushing through there, it would knock you off your feet pretty quickly and wash you over the numerous drops. pretty scary to think about.
During a monsoon storm only 2.5cm (one inch) of water will knock you off your feet on level ground. The speed of the water and the pressure of the water behind it is immense, the debri in the water is even more dangerous! Add that to the steep angle of those canon walls and you can imagine the speed and sheer terror that happened. My idea about monsoon season is stay on high ground, in a safe dry building and enjoy the thunder and lightning, vast amounts of rain and wind while eating a freshly made s'more!
@@christinemeleg4535 are you in asia, because nowhere else do we call anything “monsoon” season
@@induss1491 we use the term "monsoon" in the western United States all the time....
@@BudgetAdventure incorrect. Western usa does not EVER use the term "monsoon".
@@HarryKuloh I work near bryce and most people I know/interact with say it
A 20% chance of rain woulda turned me around. Flash floods can come from miles away. Not ideal in a choke point like the canyons in Zion.
I have camped at Zion and can tell you the weather there can change on a dime. It is unpredictable and dangerous
We cancelled so many canyoneering trips when in Zion due to even lower than 40% ie any chance of rain. Having seen 2 flash floods in canyons.
Did that slot a few years prior at age 15. Even then, it was a tight canyon with lots of features. Can't imagine being in there in that situation.
My group called it "the stink hole" because of the stagnent water we had to wade through. 110°+ up top, maybe 50° down in the bottom, strange sensation shivering amidst record breaking heat
Thank you for all the hard work and great content
What a sad story ... they were so unprepared and ignorant of the dangers there .... but all picts have a smile on their faces .... not one survived ...
I got caught in a flash flood while my friend and I were riding our dirt bikes in a deep channel. We couldn’t outrun it! My buddy’s bike went all the way under but was still running and we got him and the bike out! I made it out by riding up a nearly straight up wall of dirt ! That water is nothing to mess with!
Many Thanks for yet another entertaining, well made video! Keep 'em coming, Morbid Midnight!
In California
IN THE DESERT
my friend that ran a tow truck company went on a recovery for BLM.
There was a motor home that parked in a wash because it was nice and smooth.
Why do you think it’s called a wash?
That motorhome was just washed away in the middle of the night when the rains came…
all they found was the frame with only one front wheel still attached.
Nothing else-
Just the frame and one wheel.
The rest was stripped away and they never found any trace of that family.
Those people in Zion were mostly found in debris piles-
when you get hit,it’s like a tsunami.
All that debris churning becomes something like a meat grinder.
It’s not just water.
Finally subbed, ya likable bastard, you!
Keep up the good work, dude. ✌️
You're with six people that have never been canyoneering before with a 40% chance of rain and you go anyway? That's just crazy. Should be a hard no.
I live in Texas. I don't even drive when it rains.
The Texas 1604 Loop around San Antonio is a disaster and regularly has hundreds of car accidents every time it lightly sprinkles.
Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child wrote a book years ago called Thunderhead. It was the first time I had ever even heard about flash floods in slot canyons and IT. WAS. TERRIFYING. I have had a morbid curiosity and very healthy fear of them since. This video reinforced that fear tremendously.
The Estes Park flash flood was incredible. You just don’t think these things can happen.
That was crazy. The names of the victims are listed on a rock up there.
So sad! Flash floods are no joke! RIP to these victims
The canyons are the lows spot, so even if it’s raining miles away, that water is coming to you. It rarely rains there and the sun cooks the ground, so when it does rain the water doesn’t seep into the ground.
The canyons look the way they do for a reason.
when someone that knows what they're talking about warns you not to go ....
Sparse cloud a few miles away. Low chance of rain in the immediate area. Reached I think the 3rd rappel of a simple slot and noticed a slight sprinkle. Decided to not finish and moved back up to a higher spot. A bit of rain for a few minutes and pretty soon there was a knee deep muddy water rushing down the canyon. Doesn't sound intense but knowing what the rest of the canyon looked like, it would have been bad news. Watch the weather and don't take the chance.
Awesome. I like your video and thanks for your sharing
There are some great videos of the slot canyons of Page, Az. flooded with water just rushing in. You really need to see these images to understand just how helpless you'd be. It also really gives you a great visual for how the slots canyons are created too. Some of the most jaw dropping video's I've ever seen
50% rain prediction doesn't mean that odds are 50% likely that it will rain, it means that 50% of the surveyed area is definitely getting rain.
Thank you! I tell this to people all the time and they don't believe me!?!
Thanks for sharing.
What's sad is I'm sure their drive to continue despite the warning was fueled by the fact that the activity was already planned. What a terrible reason to risk your life. No one wants to be humbled by nature and just reschedule the trip. I'm not Judging them. I've been there and learned my lesson and luckily i lived so that I could learn.
The fact they planned this trip in advance but then WAITED until the day of the trip to be trained to rapel says all you need to know about their lack of experience.
Anytime you go out for a hike you take a risk whatever it could be and always take advice from the staff at the visitor centre when he said " I wouldn't go today " that is all you need to know
RIP. The slot canyons are no joke, but yet so much adventure. The key is to have a good professional guide, we did that at Moab, where professional canyoneering guides are allowed to lead your group. Not sure why that's not allowed at Zion.
That's terrifying.. great job on the story..loved it
Those canyons, though beautiful in the dry, are actually carved by exactly that sudden kind of torrent of water. Those poor folks would not have been able to see what the weather was doing outside of their section, until the rain started. Then it would have come upon them in a sudden assault. What a harrowing way to die. Very traumatic for the search and recovery teams to find them all to bring their bodies home to their families. I hope that they are given PTSD counselling.
Such a beautiful place, you can understand there want to go and explore. But they were told that day by the person who gave them the permit ‘ I wouldn’t go today ‘, I think that should of been warning enough to really explore the weather forecast. Just one of those unfortunate accidents! :(
So destressing to see those beautiful happy people lose their lives on an excursion that was supposed to be pleasant. A horrible terrifying experience with thoughts of their loved ones back home.
40% is only moderate to weathermen. Arizonans know that 40% is a decent chance. When you consider that these slot canyons funnel storms for great distances this increases the chance further. They should have been prepared with time scenarios that they adhered to religiously.
Flash flooding can happen any time out west. Afternoon thunderstorms are very common any time in mountain country. A creek that's normally just small will become a roaring river in no time. One person who was suppose to be qualified did a poor job in my opinion.
I consider it much worse than a poor job.
My dad was in this group, I’ve never heard that a ranger told them not to go. They may not have been experienced canyoneering but all had so so so much experience at hiking, bouldering etc.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your Dad. I hope you're ok.
Amanda, I am sorry that this happened to you, but they were definitely warned. There are four tiers of flash flood forecasts: "Not Expected"; "Probable"; and Expected. I have been canyoneering in Zion for 35 years and I have never not heard the rangers warn someone when you get the permit and that there is a chance of rain and if the forecast is anything but "not expected". Now days though they warn you even when it is not expected.
Even if this one ranger accidentally forgot to tell the group (extremely unlikely), the flash flood forecast is always written/printed on the whiteboard at the backcountry office.
Although it isn't in the video, the instructors have all said that they told them they shouldn't go.
One of my friends also met the group back at camp and talked with them before the accident. It was the supposedly experienced member of the group who convinced the rest of the group that "it didn't look that bad" and the others went along with him.
I am very sorry that this happened and my heart breaks for you, but the group was warned no less than three times before going to the canyon. Bad luck played a part too as others have done the same and got away with it.
@@scottpatterson8896 thank you for clarifying that.
When I was still climbing, I got a lot of pressure once to reach the summit (rainier). But I had seen enough of the inexperience of some of the rest of the team and lack of important items. I decided I could summit another day.
What a mess that trip was.
Yeah, they didn't listen to the local... A lot of people don't.
Here's something a lot of folks don't get about that entire region of the states. The weather is really different there. A lot of rain "showers" don't ever reach the ground. It's hot and dry enough that the rain falls but evaporates before hitting the ground and you just feel par-boiled in your clothes. SO there is NO SUCH THING as a polite "soaking rain"... It's either a torrent or nothing... give or take a sudden spike in humidity.
...or rather... a "soaking rain shower" like you might expect about anywhere else in the world is a REALLY REALLY RARE thing there.
SO any kind of precipitation carries an exponentially higher risk of flooding somewhere... Whether it's exactly "flash flooding" or just the slow easy kind to deal with is highly dependent on the particular territory and its geological makeup. Even regular canyons flood pretty quickly compared to just about anything you're probably used to... AND slot canyons flood faster than you can even realize something is wrong... SO by the time you reckon you're in trouble, you're just about doomed.
AND for you folks who are either native to that territory or frequent it enough to presume "But everybody knows that." No... Actually everybody does NOT understand that. A lot of the world (including a lot of the rest of the U.S.) has a relatively peaceful kind of rain shower, and it can last days without being more than a petty nuisance of just being wet... To many of us outside of that region, a "flash flood" can raise maybe an inch an hour and be described as "incredibly fast"... It's nothing like being in a slot canyon where the water level can jump several feet in the time it takes to look around suspiciously. Many don't have a clue just how quickly they can already be screwed and still not know it. ;o)
Nah, it's not quantity that's the problem. After all, a monsoon rainstorm in Utah doesn't hold a candle to an afternoon thunderstorm in Florida for quantity of rain. The problem is the sandstone and the lack of soil. Basically the southern Utah sandstone can absorb about 30% of its surface area in rain which isn't much. After it's saturated there's nowhere for the water to go except downstream in a torrent. Once saturated, the sandstone might as well be glass or steel as it won't absorb another drop and everything just flows right off of it. In other mountainous areas the rock and soil can absorb significantly more rain before becoming saturated. That - combined with the slot canyons themselves - make flash floods in Utah so deadly.
I don't know why everyone always tries to blame the National Parks like they're some kind of babysitters. These are grown men and women who assessed their own risks and made their own decisions. You have to be willing to accept those risks as part of the adventure community, otherwise we turn these places into Disneyland. There's already too many handrails and warning signs and stupid man-made crap ruining these landscapes as it is. I'm sorry that the group lost their lives that day but I say, just let it be.
I wouldn't go anywhere near a slot canyon in Zion if there is even a chance of rain. I've backpacked the Narrows and many others alone. If a ranger told me not to go, I would freaking listen.
You're very brave. Hazzah.
EXACTLY
Exactly. My nephew was a ranger. If he said he wouldn't do it, I certainly wouldn't.
The two videos in this video are from Jerry Arizona, who makes excellent hiking/canyoneering videos.
Keyhole Canyon - Zion National Park - Flash flood conditions
th-cam.com/video/gMAIsdF-LVc/w-d-xo.html
Keyhole Canyon - Zion National Park
th-cam.com/video/RPWD73J8TGM/w-d-xo.html
@Morbid Midnight
Although I first noticed the incorrect date in the voice-over, thanks for correcting it in the description.
BTW, I deleted my previous response due to the totally irrelevant comments.
Why do folks need to twist any positive comment to fit into their own agendas?
Talk about a lack of civility...
(Feel free to delete this comment)
That canyon is one of the shortest canyons (can be done in 30-60 minutes). It is easy to have a false sense of confidence that you can outrun any storm.
Blessings to the family who lost their loved ones.
It's shocking how fast the weather changes out west.
The classic case of "we already here so might as well do it" when ranger said "I wouldn't go today"
So I worked on a fishing boat in New England and I would have to work basically 6 days a week all spring summer fall. So I remember similar situations where all my friends had weekends off and they would plan a big offshore fishing trip like Friday nite till sat nite just stay out fish for 24 hours and they would be so gung ho cause they only had one day to go. And I would start listening to the mating weather on Monday and the forecast would get worst and worst every day and they don’t care they think I’m lieing. So I would say. “Hey u guys might wanna reschedule cause the Atlantic isn’t goin to be nice this weekend. But they said we can handle it. And I would back out. Cause I knew exactly what was gonna happen. Like they had one shot to get into that canyon and didn’t car what the forecast said. King story short they got the boat ready for the supplies got the bait. Left Connecticut pass montauk then 40 miles till the spot. And in the dark nonetheless. They tried. But they had the near death experience. 24ft center counsel waves were so bad took 6 hours to go 20 miles then decide this is bad and turn around and come back at 6 knots. No atheists on the boat that nite. I had the cliché line. “Told ya so”. Dumbasses
That’s a long way to go to get some fish.
I wanted to go there specifically for Keyhole canyon... Nevermind. Thanks
You can go, just go during the drier parts of the year, and heed the rangers' advice. ⚠️
Flash Floods & Falls: Deaths & Rescues in Zion National Park
: a book by Bo Beck and Dave Nally was published in 2013, two years before these inexperienced hikers chose to go. Even a 5 minute Google search would have showed them previous deaths in Zion National Park over the years.
What's sad is most don't realize how fast and overwhelming the water comes in.
I blame the leader Mr McKenzie who was TOLD by a ranger 40% chance of rain and that the ranger wouldn’t go if it were him.. yet he still went back the group didn’t say anything and went on with the trip
That guy got his poor friends killed
Damn that story was frustrating to listen to
The narrator did not say that he did not say anything to the others about the warning, He maybe did and they all decided to take a chance given that the weather was fine till last. Ultimately every adult is responsible for their own decision to do things in life. I don't think anyone was forced to do the excursion. That guy did not got anyone killed IMO, life is a risky and transient thing, deal with it
@Davelad Ramirez You seem to be an expert, just curious what is your canyoneering experience?
Hindsight is always 20/20. One thing I remember a ranger saying is always start your hike as early as possible.
This isn't about 20/20 hindsight. It's about lack of experience. Six of them were trained to rapel that same day. Foolish.
Sometimes the customer doesn't know best
You hear it in the first 2 1/2 minutes. 40 % chance of rain. If thr one guy who was experienced in canyon hiking in this group really knew anything about hiking "the slots", he would have told his friends, "Sorry guys, bad Idea today. We'll try another day". You just don't do it. Even if the ranger had not told them it was a bad idea, he should have known that. Maybe if they started calling these events suicide, instead of disasters, people might start paying attention. Disaster sounds like an uncontrollable event caused by nature and takes the onus off the humans.
Yep. The usual "simple rule of thumb" I've always heard for Southwest canyons is that if the forecast reaches 20% chance of precipitation, you cancel the trip.
I wouldn't go today..
What could possibly go wrong? Oh!!! 🤯
From downstream you can hike up .Keyhole canyon is the beginning of the actual slot type canyon. They chose the more technical descent. I did the lower descent over boulders on a talus slope. This was in '92 unassisted.
Ironically, if they hadn't done that five hour introductory canyoneering course, they would've probably survived.
Not allowing a commercial guide makes zero sense to me. Another famous US slot canyon, Antelope Canyon, also had a major tragedy in the 90’s due to flash flooding and 11 people were killed. Since then, you can ONLY go in with a commercial guide.
Thanks for the description of events and the photos to go around with it. I remember when this happened.
I think about what we can learn and change from this experience.
1. I've come to learn that anything over 10% chance is not worth it, especially if it is a chance for thunderstorms.
2. I'm not critical of the NPS, they are my favorite government agency. I think saying "I wouldn't go" is enough for experienced people, but not enough for some. I think adding, "there's a good chance of a deadly, you are going to die, flash flood". Might be helpful.
3. 10 people could have died that day. Remember there were 3 lucky "experienced" canyoneers that could have had the same fate.
There are two things about this story that make no sense whatsoever... 1) They planned this trip months in advance but then waited until the day of the hike to take rappelling lessons, and 2) a ranger said 'he wouldn't go today" but still issued them a permit.
How very sad these people were out for a day of fun to enjoy nature, Rest In Peace.
In those areas the precipitation where you are at isn’t as the amount of precipitation further up in the canyons. You may not get rain, but if they received a gully washer up from your location you are in danger.