At 68 I find Poomsae to be the most helpful & therapeutic exercises to do. It was instrumental in recovering strength after a serious knee & ankle injury. I know if you concentrate on proper front stances (good bent knee) & stong punches you will find your body & mind improving. Start slow, do a good warmup & really listen to your body so you know how far to push. Yes, your mind also needs to recover from the trauma & accept that your body is ready to move again.
I am a korean martial artist who's taekwondo lineage practices only the palgwe poomsae because of this i am studying the yi ching as well as chinese martial arts. Palgwe literally means Bagua or 8 trigrams, which are concepts straight from the yi ching(book of changes). Taoist philosophy is about the Dao or the way and essentially it focuses on connecting to a "universal flow" of energy. The way isn't a god they worship. No one prays to the dao but there is some form of ancestor honoring / worship depending on the type of daoism, Because the dao is a "way" that has existed since the beginning of time. Daoists draw upon the knowledge of the ancestors who studied the concepts of the dao previously. For example, the daoist sage Lao Tzu is honored among many daoists. Daoists believe in the beginning there was the void or wuji then the void split into yin and yang or taiji. Yin and yang are mutually opposite forces and concepts( example. Hot and cold, light and dark, open and closed). This is where the trigrams come in. If you look at the trigrams they are sets of three horizontal bars or lines and can be solid( yang) or broken(yin). The lines track the movement of the mutually opposing forces (yin and yang). Each tracked movement is recorded as a trigram which is why you will see them positioned around the taiji symbol or the yin yang symbol most of the time. I hope this helps in some way let me know if you would like more information because you have to sift through alot of Chinese esoteric theory and chinese martial theory along with korean martial theory then find the connection between them which is daunting to say the least. I have some experience in finding the similarities between taekwondo, karate, and kung fu both in theory and techniques in my journey to create my own martial system and diagnose the applications within the Palgwe Poomsae.
Very interesting Topic Tuesday! Thank you Paul and others regarding rehab value of poomsae. On the esoterica of martial arts - I think the symbolic representation of the spiritual in martial arts relates to the Nietzchzeian idea of the 'will to power'. Without a recognition of something bigger than the self, there is a temptation to use violence as a tool of domination of others. However with that recognition of something bigger than the self, we are more inclined to turn that will to power inward to master ourselves, and hopefully become better people. This seems to me to be something with universal applicability be you Christian, Daoist, Jedi or Humanist or whatever. This is particularly important for martial artists as 'with great power comes great responsibility'. We're taught that 'those who live by the sword die by the sword' - therefore we must internalise our will to power for the purpose of personal and public peace. On to my next question: I've been watching comparisons of various karate styles and have noted great variations in the use of body mechanics for power generation. Since TKD is largely derived, but not solely from Shotokan and Shotokan uses very forceful hip rotations that do not seem to be replicated in TKD - where should our power come from in strikes, blocks and kicks?
Hey, great video. Thank you for talking about my channel, I really appreciate it. On one hand, Itosu explicitly stated in his precepts that karate did not originate from Buddhism or Confucianism. That’s from a letter that had a clear agenda, it was promoting karate to the Japanese officials during an intensely nationalistic time when there was conflict specifically with China. So for the Pinan specifically, I really think that they are Itosu’s reinvention of the original art as a form of physical education. The forms that came before are a different matter but it could be the case that they served a function closer to this than many believe. It’s also important to note that Motobu talks about “hidden” meanings in Naihanchi. This could suggest that the movements of the form were practiced as physical exercise at first with the combative meanings being a later part of instruction that was only for trusted students. This has always been a common view of the practice and I think it makes sense on some level. Your comparison to Freemasonry and other secret societies I think is apt and probably pretty close to the truth as to how things might have operated. It’s all pretty speculative though and, for me, it still seems pretty odd that we don’t have more texts from that first generation Okinawan karate teachers explaining the movements of the forms. This topic reminds me a lot of a talk Josh did on Combat Learning with a man named Sanko Lewis who lives in Korean and teaches in a university there. He had a very interesting way of describing premodern and postmodern martial arts. I’ll have to revisit it. I have another theory about this that I want to talk about in another video. Maybe we can discuss it privately sometime? Again thanks for the shout out and great video.
@@ModernTangSooDo great reply, thanks for watching! It would be fun to talk. I’ll try to digging up the episode of Combat Learning you mentioned as well.
Have seen it suggested that what texts would have existed would have been in Shuri Castle - and it was almost completely destroyed during the battle for Okinawa in WW2.
I was very interested in your discussion on Poomsae. I have always been drawn to that aspect of TKD and especially now as one older (68) and still actively training. Could Poomsae have been created with those in mind that would have a life long goal of continual training when combative is no longer physically practical?? I do feel a mental/spiritual connection when performing the Taegeuks…a release from this world, an inner power & a joy in the continual perfecting of technique. Is there a way schools can excite & bring more emphasis to Poomsae with their students? Also, do you have any suggestions of the right mindset when doing Poomsae competitions??
Cool facts about the Judo uniform and intro to this weeks discussion, a suggestion I would have is to have a special guest added for a topic tuesday? via zoom? someone from master level who could speak on a specific topic or even one of your students that would have something to share without having to do zoom? whoever would show interest we could then adapt some questions accordingly to assist if needed, just an idea from outside the ring box... in the mean time do u have any favorite martial arts movies or actors that really highlight tae kwon do and has left a lasting impression? Hwang Jang-lee is mine and he also has old school kicking tutorials out there I find that are highly clever and watching his kicks via movie screen was like first experiencing Bruce Lee.
I know you have problems with your hip. What stretches or exercises have you found to be the most helpful? What do you avoid in your martial arts training?
People like Lou can't stand it when Poomsae is dissected and really scrutinized. In fact, if anyone dares to question or experiment with the Poomsae dogma, he will leave nasty comments and then get his TKD associates to do the same. Sad.
@@gemini-tkd-sam4104 interesting. I would love to hear his reasoning. I think there is a very good case to not try to find applications out of the modern poomsae.
@@tkdguide Most certainly. Well, I'll tell you what happened and you may be able to deduce his line of thought when it came to poomsae.... It began when I uploaded a video examining a technique from poomsae Sipjin. This video can be found here th-cam.com/video/ei_V5zZImL0/w-d-xo.html. Essentially I was trying to put across the possibility that this specific move from poomsae could be a double-handed push and not a joint jaw strike/high block (as per what the official Kukkiwon dogma states). I'm very esoteric in my training and love being creative - I've done a few videos where I examine certain poomsae moves and explore their meanings and have found many techniques actually have more than one intended purpose. Anyway, no sooner had I uploaded this video examining this Sipjin technique when I get a comment from this Lou guy. I've never heard of/from him before but he immediately goes on the attack in his comment saying things like ''you don't have any idea about poomsae'', ''you should learn poomsae before you make videos'' etc. I'm no snowflake and appreciate putting things online will garner scorn eventually, but I felt Lou's approach was overly aggressive (and quite unecessary too). I replied that the video I was showing on Sipjin was just my personal opinion on how this move could possibly be something else. Lou then sent a reply which was equally aggressive, and pretty much saying the same thing. I didn't bother responding to that message but just blocked him from spamming my channel, as that was the road it appeared he was wanting to take. Next day, someone else who I'd never heard of before leaves a comment on the same video. This person repeats what Lou had said previously ALMOST TO THE EXACT LETTER. I replied to this person pointing this out, and they replied that they did know Lou and that I was ''an idiot'' amongst other things. Needless to say, I ended up blocking them as well. Over time I pretty much forget about the incidents and post my video to some Taekwondo facebook groups explaining my opinion on this Sipjin technique. Many respond, some favourably, some with constructive criticism. All are generally respectful. Until this Lou guy shows up on the facebook groups and begins repeating his comments, this time being assisted by other Taekwondo students who all, I found out by looking at their profiles, had links, relations or connections to this Lou character. I ignored his comments and continued posting my videos to other taekwondo groups, only for this Lou guy to frequently pop up in the comments sections, saying deriding things, leaving laughing emojis.....generally being very belligerent. Ironically, I then find a comment he posted on a group saying that he once put a student through a grading with Lou having made the decision that the student will automatically fail the said grading. I made a video about this (not mentioning any names and just discussing the ethics of such an approach). Lou saw this video and then sends me a threatening and abusive personal message. I appreciate this sounds like a personal tit-for-tat, but what I found bizarre is how stoic this Lou character was, not to mention aggressive at someone simply showing some creativity in the martial arts. He also claimed to be an 8th Dan with the chang moo kwan and I would personally expect an 8th dan to show a bit more decorum and not so much childish egocentricity. I honestly didn't think anyone would get so upset over someone analysing poomsae! (Apologises for the long essay, just wished to give you some context).
Yikes as a Christian I need to be careful with that part of forms. That’s the whole reason I stopped Yoga(sorry for bringing up Yin Yoga last time. I’ve repented of that). I don’t wanna channel anything but the Holy Spirit. But I guess I’ll pray before performing all forms renouncing any possible evil attached. 😅😅😅
Unless you compete i would just rework the form to "carve into the ground" a cross or other holy symbol (alpha/omega, chirho, etc). Nonetheless while its likely that the taeguks are trigram related (for largely nationalist reasons) i would think that the majority of kata, hyung, and taolu out there are primarily repositories of technical thought. Bagua is another art where the taolu might be more strongly linked to non christian spirituality. But naihanchi shodan or the ITF I patterns? Seems unlikely.
@ there have been movements attempting to use these kinds of teleologies to influence their fighters for the battlefield and historically they ended in slaughter so-- I find little or none of this in the history of karate
I was very interested in your discussion on Poomsae. I have always been drawn to that aspect of TKD and especially now as one older (68) and still actively training. Could Poomsae have been created with those in mind that would have a life long goal of continual training when combative is no longer physically practical?? I do feel a mental/spiritual connection when performing the Taegeuks…a release from this world, an inner power & a joy in the continual perfecting of technique. Is there a way schools can excite & bring more emphasis to Poomsae with their students? Also, do you have any suggestions of the right mindset when doing Poomsae competitions??
At 68 I find Poomsae to be the most helpful & therapeutic exercises to do. It was instrumental in recovering strength after a serious knee & ankle injury. I know if you concentrate on proper front stances (good bent knee) & stong punches you will find your body & mind improving. Start slow, do a good warmup & really listen to your body so you know how far to push. Yes, your mind also needs to recover from the trauma & accept that your body is ready to move again.
Thanks mate - will keep all this in mind 👍
I am a korean martial artist who's taekwondo lineage practices only the palgwe poomsae because of this i am studying the yi ching as well as chinese martial arts. Palgwe literally means Bagua or 8 trigrams, which are concepts straight from the yi ching(book of changes). Taoist philosophy is about the Dao or the way and essentially it focuses on connecting to a "universal flow" of energy. The way isn't a god they worship. No one prays to the dao but there is some form of ancestor honoring / worship depending on the type of daoism, Because the dao is a "way" that has existed since the beginning of time. Daoists draw upon the knowledge of the ancestors who studied the concepts of the dao previously. For example, the daoist sage Lao Tzu is honored among many daoists. Daoists believe in the beginning there was the void or wuji then the void split into yin and yang or taiji. Yin and yang are mutually opposite forces and concepts( example. Hot and cold, light and dark, open and closed). This is where the trigrams come in. If you look at the trigrams they are sets of three horizontal bars or lines and can be solid( yang) or broken(yin). The lines track the movement of the mutually opposing forces (yin and yang). Each tracked movement is recorded as a trigram which is why you will see them positioned around the taiji symbol or the yin yang symbol most of the time. I hope this helps in some way let me know if you would like more information because you have to sift through alot of Chinese esoteric theory and chinese martial theory along with korean martial theory then find the connection between them which is daunting to say the least. I have some experience in finding the similarities between taekwondo, karate, and kung fu both in theory and techniques in my journey to create my own martial system and diagnose the applications within the Palgwe Poomsae.
Very interesting Topic Tuesday! Thank you Paul and others regarding rehab value of poomsae.
On the esoterica of martial arts - I think the symbolic representation of the spiritual in martial arts relates to the Nietzchzeian idea of the 'will to power'. Without a recognition of something bigger than the self, there is a temptation to use violence as a tool of domination of others. However with that recognition of something bigger than the self, we are more inclined to turn that will to power inward to master ourselves, and hopefully become better people. This seems to me to be something with universal applicability be you Christian, Daoist, Jedi or Humanist or whatever. This is particularly important for martial artists as 'with great power comes great responsibility'. We're taught that 'those who live by the sword die by the sword' - therefore we must internalise our will to power for the purpose of personal and public peace.
On to my next question:
I've been watching comparisons of various karate styles and have noted great variations in the use of body mechanics for power generation. Since TKD is largely derived, but not solely from Shotokan and Shotokan uses very forceful hip rotations that do not seem to be replicated in TKD - where should our power come from in strikes, blocks and kicks?
Hey, great video. Thank you for talking about my channel, I really appreciate it.
On one hand, Itosu explicitly stated in his precepts that karate did not originate from Buddhism or Confucianism. That’s from a letter that had a clear agenda, it was promoting karate to the Japanese officials during an intensely nationalistic time when there was conflict specifically with China. So for the Pinan specifically, I really think that they are Itosu’s reinvention of the original art as a form of physical education. The forms that came before are a different matter but it could be the case that they served a function closer to this than many believe.
It’s also important to note that Motobu talks about “hidden” meanings in Naihanchi. This could suggest that the movements of the form were practiced as physical exercise at first with the combative meanings being a later part of instruction that was only for trusted students. This has always been a common view of the practice and I think it makes sense on some level. Your comparison to Freemasonry and other secret societies I think is apt and probably pretty close to the truth as to how things might have operated. It’s all pretty speculative though and, for me, it still seems pretty odd that we don’t have more texts from that first generation Okinawan karate teachers explaining the movements of the forms.
This topic reminds me a lot of a talk Josh did on Combat Learning with a man named Sanko Lewis who lives in Korean and teaches in a university there. He had a very interesting way of describing premodern and postmodern martial arts. I’ll have to revisit it.
I have another theory about this that I want to talk about in another video. Maybe we can discuss it privately sometime? Again thanks for the shout out and great video.
@@ModernTangSooDo great reply, thanks for watching! It would be fun to talk. I’ll try to digging up the episode of Combat Learning you mentioned as well.
Have seen it suggested that what texts would have existed would have been in Shuri Castle - and it was almost completely destroyed during the battle for Okinawa in WW2.
I was very interested in your discussion on Poomsae. I have always been drawn to that aspect of TKD and especially now as one older (68) and still actively training. Could Poomsae have been created with those in mind that would have a life long goal of continual training when combative is no longer physically practical?? I do feel a mental/spiritual connection when performing the Taegeuks…a release from this world, an inner power & a joy in the continual perfecting of technique. Is there a way schools can excite & bring more emphasis to Poomsae with their students? Also, do you have any suggestions of the right mindset when doing Poomsae competitions??
Nice
Cool facts about the Judo uniform and intro to this weeks discussion, a suggestion I would have is to have a special guest added for a topic tuesday? via zoom? someone from master level who could speak on a specific topic or even one of your students that would have something to share without having to do zoom? whoever would show interest we could then adapt some questions accordingly to assist if needed, just an idea from outside the ring box... in the mean time do u have any favorite martial arts movies or actors that really highlight tae kwon do and has left a lasting impression? Hwang Jang-lee is mine and he also has old school kicking tutorials out there I find that are highly clever and watching his kicks via movie screen was like first experiencing Bruce Lee.
I’d rather poomsae than run for sure! 👍🏾
U should make a dedicated video on the philosophy/theology part
First to comment!! ❤❤❤ I love topic Tuesday!
I know you have problems with your hip. What stretches or exercises have you found to be the most helpful? What do you avoid in your martial arts training?
People like Lou can't stand it when Poomsae is dissected and really scrutinized. In fact, if anyone dares to question or experiment with the Poomsae dogma, he will leave nasty comments and then get his TKD associates to do the same. Sad.
@@gemini-tkd-sam4104 interesting. I would love to hear his reasoning. I think there is a very good case to not try to find applications out of the modern poomsae.
@@tkdguide Most certainly. Well, I'll tell you what happened and you may be able to deduce his line of thought when it came to poomsae....
It began when I uploaded a video examining a technique from poomsae Sipjin. This video can be found here th-cam.com/video/ei_V5zZImL0/w-d-xo.html. Essentially I was trying to put across the possibility that this specific move from poomsae could be a double-handed push and not a joint jaw strike/high block (as per what the official Kukkiwon dogma states). I'm very esoteric in my training and love being creative - I've done a few videos where I examine certain poomsae moves and explore their meanings and have found many techniques actually have more than one intended purpose.
Anyway, no sooner had I uploaded this video examining this Sipjin technique when I get a comment from this Lou guy. I've never heard of/from him before but he immediately goes on the attack in his comment saying things like ''you don't have any idea about poomsae'', ''you should learn poomsae before you make videos'' etc. I'm no snowflake and appreciate putting things online will garner scorn eventually, but I felt Lou's approach was overly aggressive (and quite unecessary too).
I replied that the video I was showing on Sipjin was just my personal opinion on how this move could possibly be something else. Lou then sent a reply which was equally aggressive, and pretty much saying the same thing. I didn't bother responding to that message but just blocked him from spamming my channel, as that was the road it appeared he was wanting to take.
Next day, someone else who I'd never heard of before leaves a comment on the same video. This person repeats what Lou had said previously ALMOST TO THE EXACT LETTER. I replied to this person pointing this out, and they replied that they did know Lou and that I was ''an idiot'' amongst other things. Needless to say, I ended up blocking them as well.
Over time I pretty much forget about the incidents and post my video to some Taekwondo facebook groups explaining my opinion on this Sipjin technique. Many respond, some favourably, some with constructive criticism. All are generally respectful. Until this Lou guy shows up on the facebook groups and begins repeating his comments, this time being assisted by other Taekwondo students who all, I found out by looking at their profiles, had links, relations or connections to this Lou character.
I ignored his comments and continued posting my videos to other taekwondo groups, only for this Lou guy to frequently pop up in the comments sections, saying deriding things, leaving laughing emojis.....generally being very belligerent. Ironically, I then find a comment he posted on a group saying that he once put a student through a grading with Lou having made the decision that the student will automatically fail the said grading. I made a video about this (not mentioning any names and just discussing the ethics of such an approach). Lou saw this video and then sends me a threatening and abusive personal message.
I appreciate this sounds like a personal tit-for-tat, but what I found bizarre is how stoic this Lou character was, not to mention aggressive at someone simply showing some creativity in the martial arts. He also claimed to be an 8th Dan with the chang moo kwan and I would personally expect an 8th dan to show a bit more decorum and not so much childish egocentricity. I honestly didn't think anyone would get so upset over someone analysing poomsae!
(Apologises for the long essay, just wished to give you some context).
Sounds frustrating. You are right, there is no need to be so aggressive about something like that.
What if I told you that Freemasonry came from the mi’kmaq Indians by way of the sir William Alexander clan.
Or
Are you a modern thinker?
@@KelvindeWolfe I wouldn’t rule it out as a possibility.
Poomsae or kata same thing.
Yikes as a Christian I need to be careful with that part of forms. That’s the whole reason I stopped Yoga(sorry for bringing up Yin Yoga last time. I’ve repented of that). I don’t wanna channel anything but the Holy Spirit. But I guess I’ll pray before performing all forms renouncing any possible evil attached. 😅😅😅
@@Keisha_TKD_NP I want to be clear that this is a hypothesis.
@@tkdguide woooo thank goodness 😅😅
Unless you compete i would just rework the form to "carve into the ground" a cross or other holy symbol (alpha/omega, chirho, etc). Nonetheless while its likely that the taeguks are trigram related (for largely nationalist reasons) i would think that the majority of kata, hyung, and taolu out there are primarily repositories of technical thought. Bagua is another art where the taolu might be more strongly linked to non christian spirituality. But naihanchi shodan or the ITF I patterns? Seems unlikely.
I thought to speak about your proposal, but yeah, no. Soldiers and people fighting for survival had little time for such nonsense.
@@TimothyAdams-ln2jr hypothetically, if it were true, how would you feel about it?
@ there have been movements attempting to use these kinds of teleologies to influence their fighters for the battlefield and historically they ended in slaughter so-- I find little or none of this in the history of karate
@@TimothyAdams-ln2jr flat earth problem 🌍
I was very interested in your discussion on Poomsae. I have always been drawn to that aspect of TKD and especially now as one older (68) and still actively training. Could Poomsae have been created with those in mind that would have a life long goal of continual training when combative is no longer physically practical?? I do feel a mental/spiritual connection when performing the Taegeuks…a release from this world, an inner power & a joy in the continual perfecting of technique. Is there a way schools can excite & bring more emphasis to Poomsae with their students? Also, do you have any suggestions of the right mindset when doing Poomsae competitions??