Thanks for watching! Let me and my viewers know what your thoughts are about whether or not HD is being too greedy or not. Also if you believe I did some good work and wish to send some "atta boy", be sure to check out my patreon: www.patreon.com/ksmotocafe
I've been wanting to upgrade to a new Softail for a few years now because of the numerous advantages over my 2009 Sportster 1200 Custom. However, I've got about $9000 (CAD) invested in mods and upgrades and the bike is finally everything I ever wanted in an EVO Harley. The problem is that if I buy a new one, say a Softail Standard, a Deluxe, or Heritage, I'll get the sixth gear I've been craving, but I'll have to start over again with the mods (Harley Tax) and also pay through the nose for the bike itself. Even a couple/three years used, they cost around $22500 to $24500 in my area in Ontario. At 60 years old, I can't afford to spend that much money on a luxury item. I have to save for retirement. I've been riding my Sportster since new in 2009 and bike prices have kept going up since then. The present lack of dealer stock and the ridiculous dealer markups have been keeping me from entering the building even to take a look. There's nothing there to see except T-shirts and crap. Regarding improvements to later models, ABS and keyless start and some models getting cruise control is all good but other serious issues remain. Fewer color choices, models still shipping with incandescent lamps, cheaper uglier wheels, and many models no longer even have a proper gauge, just that stupid tiny $5 LCD bullsh!t. All that said, if I ever do buy a Softail, it'll definitely be used and with stage-1 upgrade and other mods already on it. Buying a new one now is out of the question. If I hear words like "stripped down", "bobber style", "classic", or "blank canvas" again, I'll f'ing scream. They might as well say "pay more, get less, so you can enjoy spending even more later".
I started on a 2020 iron 883 as well. If the rebel 11oo had been out when I started riding, I would have bought that instead. I can’t lie about it. It’s so much more motorcycle for the money. Be that as it is, I traded in for my ‘21 Low Rider S last February. I planned on riding my iron a while longer but I was afraid HD was going to start drastically raising prices, which they did, so I made the switch before all the surcharges and major price increases! So glad I did. I would not, and will not be buying anymore new Harley Davidson motorcycles until they can get their act together, if that ever happens. I cannot stand this ceo. Harley has lost their way. I can go on and on, but it won’t change anything. I don’t see how the current business strategy is sustainable long term?
also their business strategy is not sustainable because their retention is not as good and their new bikes are not drawing new customers (due to price). My guess is give it one more year before the CEO is replaced
@@KSMotoCafe No, I didn’t get a good deal….. I got a GREAT DEAL 👍. Lol. They made it too good to pass up. They really wanted to move it for the new models.
Love the brand… hate the prices. Similar to you I’m looking for the upgrade… we will see if HD gains a customer. Great video man. Keep up the great work.
Love the channel and content. I share the same rant. I am blessed to enjoy a 2012 Sportster Nightster XL1200N, a 2013 Dyna Street Bob FXDB, and a 2016 Softail Slim S FLSS. I will be keeping all of them. Love the brand, and all things Harley. That said, not sure I would ever buy a new Harley...I prefer to buy used from a private party. I believe Harley need Matt Levatich back in some form to help add more balance. The direction Harley are going seems to be giving other manufacturers the opportunity to gain rider and dollar share.
Hey man, great to see your channel coming along! I totally share the sentiment like most of us now. I can only guess that banking on the rich is the safest bet for them in these inflated volatile times. You do wonder though why there isn't a viable alternative for the cruiser king of the world when everybody's begging for more affordability. I have to agree that their future looks very dim on the current path.
Yes, new Harleys are WAY overpriced, but Harley has always cost more than pretty much every other brand out there...but I don't really care, because I've never bought a new vehicle in my life & at soon to be 54 years old, I don't see that changing any time soon...too many sweet deals out there on privately owned bikes that people bought & never rode for me to worry about going to a stealership for anything...
You are spot on there. Great bixe but such high prices. As far as I know a lot of them are made in India so HD can't point the finger at Japanese bixe being cheaper because of their main labour costs. If I'm wrong on that let me know.
Harley Davidson is a complete disaster of a company since their new CEO took over. Granted some of their new bikes are interesting such as the Pan America, the nightster and new sportsters. Nice bikes. Absolutely idiotic pricing. Harleys approach is, if u want to get into Harley but can't afford new go with their used bikes. Well let's see, a used Softail that's almost twenty years old with 50000 kms on it is more money then a brand new Vulcan. The Vulcan will outlast that Harley by hundreds of thousands of kms. Ok so there is the engine comparison, yup lot more horses in the Harley. But get real..... That extra money is paying for a badge. I love Harley motorcycles but their arrogant approach to introducing people to their products turns me right off. I wish they would get a grip on reality. Until they do, I and many others will continue to buy far better crafted Japanese motorcycles that offer superior reliability and nearly as many customization options.
You're correct, their prices are too high. However, I still want one. Most likely, I go with pre-owned one which 1, 2 or 3 years old and has low miles.
Here’s my take. I have owned 6 Harleys including a 2020 Livewire. They have always been expensive, but now it has become ridiculous. Mark-ups, delivery, dealer prep etc. I think Zeitz is driving up the stock price for the shareholders and maybe even to make the company more attractive for selling or taking on a financial partner. I now have a Pan America and it has been the most unreliable bike that I’ve owned. Back to Honda for this kid. I agree, who cares about their electric bicycles? Even the new livewires don’t say Harley💩 I also am not buying anymore overpriced gear with HARLEY plastered all over it. Even Indian looks interesting to me now
I've heard it said that HD Corp can't actually stop the dealerships from marking up prices but if they can, they should, because the so-called "surcharge" is bad enough but dealers tacking on 10% to 20% markups on top is just too much. HD would be gone already if it wasn't for the govt imposing huge tariffs on other brands in order to preserve market share for HD. Even with that huge advance, HD is flailing. Other countries such as Australia and the UK have since imposed their own tariffs against HD making HD bikes super expensive over there and that's got to be crippling sales. Here in North America, the dealerships are often huge and well decorated and very expensive to staff but that's been true forever. I don't know what has changed but it seems like the dealerships can barely keep the lights on anymore let alone keep bikes in stock. They have already cut back on hours so much that I have to take time off work to go to a dealership. Sure, there's a few huge dealerships with upwards of 30 to 50 bikes in the showroom on any given day but those are few and far between. The nearest dealership to me that's like that is a 6 hour drive away. I've never been there. The ones closer, like 1 to 2 hours away, only have 6 to 12 in stock and that includes the used ones and some of them are 20 years old. Maybe if they cut down on the showroom bling and stocked more bikes then they'd sell more. And what's with the $50 T-shirts? I've heard that HD Corp has been lying about their profits by buying their own stocks to make it look like they're more profitable than they really are. They've been borrowing against themselves for at least the last 5 years in a row and it has to bottom-out soon. Charging $20,000 for a $12,000 model (i.e. Sportster) or charging $60,000 for a limited edition CVO touring bike is not going to float the company. Charging $29,000 for a Softail-anything is just insane and the touring bikes are pushing $40,000+ and the Tri-Glides are over $55,000. Adding more anchors like surcharges and 10%+ markups is going to sink the ship. Also, investing in a "made in China" motor to reduce cost might not be such a great idea. I'm not saying the quality wouldn't be adequate, it probably would be if HDC oversees it. I'm talking about the present world political stage. With Putin going wild and China threatening to join him, that combined with China's silicon microchip war against the world, and China threatening to invade Taiwan, the world's leading microchip producer, now might be the worst time since WWI to sign any contracts with China. No, I think HD has to sink or swim within North America but to do that, they have to knock off the grossly outdated "culture" BS and get their prices in order and bring back a proper "entry level" line of bikes. Selling tons of entry level bikes would be the bread and butter for the company, just like the V6 Pentastar cars/suvs are for Dodge. Make no mistake, there would be no Dodge Scatpack 392 or Dodge Hellcat muscle-cars at all if it wasn't for the affordable daily driver V6 models carrying the entire company. It seems like HD Corp wants to sell only Hellcats (if you get my drift) from now on and that's never gonna happen. Don't even get me started on that "electric bikes only" crap the CEO was talking about. I'd give up riding altogether before I'd ever own any stupid electric bike.
I would guess the CEO's time in the seat has a timer on it now. What you mentioned about Hellcats is exactly what Hd is doing but only from price and not actual performance
@@KSMotoCafe Maybe something like a bike with the factory 131ci stage-4 (LRST ?) might qualify as a Hellcat analogous trim level compared to standard 114 but I don't expect they'll sell a whole helluva lot of them because they cost about $8000 USD more than the 114 stage-0. With respect to electric, I mean absolutely no disrespect to any Livewire owners or anyone who legitimately wants to go full electric, and maybe I am a real old dinosaur that the planet is better off without, I'll admit that, but the bottom line is that I want to keep my old petrol-powered ICE bike. I love the sound and the vibration of a machine that seems truly alive while it's running. I get a huge thrill riding it. I'll never go electric. Never ever. I can't imagine sitting at a red light, dead-quiet, and getting only a little whine when I take off. Super high torque that snaps my neck doesn't appeal to me either. At least with my ICE, I can carry some extra gas on a really long stretch, or I can count on gas stations existing along the way. With an electric, it just dies wherever you are and that's it, you're done. As for charging stations, well, there's not a whole lot of those across my province just yet. So-called fast-charging hasn't been ironed out either. No standard hardware exists as yet. Have fun holding up your whole group for an hour (assuming DC Fast Charge which you probably can't find). There's no history on electric motorcycles yet either. Will it burn down your house sitting inside the attached garage someday? How many years will the battery last? How much will it cost to replace? When you finally need a new battery, will the manufacturer still be producing your specific model? How much of its capacity will it lose before you are willing to pony up for a new one? Would it make more sense to invest that money in a new e-bike? How much could you get for the old dead one? So when you plunk down your $22,800 USD+ fees + tax on your Livewire, make sure you're okay with the risks involved with that battery's future because everything depends on it. Bear in mind the Heritage 114 costs a bit less (totally different riding setup, I know). But check out that Livewire 0-60mph time of just 3s (and no shifting, just one big yank). I'm sure someone will love that but not me, I'd like to keep my lunch down.
@@KSMotoCafe One last thing about the HD CEO saying "going all electric", I know that I already made it pretty clear what I think of E-bikes, and I know that a full fledged electric motorcycle is in another class of EV than your garden variety budget E-bike, but that's what they said about Tesla and other electric cars too, yet there's still a lot of unpredictable serious fires happening which is why I'm not ready to consider owning one and storing it in my garage and putting my entire home and family at risk. Here's just one recent example... E-bike battery sparks 5-alarm fire in the Bronx: FDNY th-cam.com/video/eBscN-TKF9A/w-d-xo.html
When I talk with young riders, one consistent theme is they don't care where the bike is made. They are primarily focused on a "lifestyle" of which there are several being marketed. For instance, a lot of hipsters are going for the cafe type bike, then there's BMW, Triumph, Indian, etc. etc. Also, most have a negative view of the politically-incorrect "Harley-Rider." It is what it is. Is Harley pricing itself out of the market? Yes, and in two ways: 1) they are overpriced when compared to all the others ($500 for a big twin oil change/service?!!), 2) Harley doesn't know who its core customers are-- nobody's watching American Choppers any longer LOL! Add to that, the economy has been in a nosedive for the last two years, and out government has hit the afterburners eagerly watching the ground speed ever closer... Who's going to be buying new motorcycles when they struggle to heat their homes, commute to work, or repair their cars? Pay the rent, or buy a chrome skull-laden Harley?
All very good points except I'd say Harley knows exactly who their core customer is and it's men in thier late 30s and beyond and people who want to be associated with the "Harley lifestyle" or club culture. Those people are slowly going away and so with it will go the brand.
Harley should stick to who their customers are. The American muscle lover, the patriot, the marine, the anti woke, the republican, the laborer, the redneck etc. The middle class all American man and woman who loves their country and prides themselves in supporting American and being loud about it!
Harley corporate is clueless, I live in the Milwaukee area and been riding for 15 years and I seen a severe decline in every aspect, 10 years ago I gotta 883 Iron for 8k new lol, they flooded the market, too many were going to auction, in 2017, I got a 16 Roadglide Limited with 1800 miles on it for $18500 from a HD dealer lol, now they cut back and charge more, and don’t get me started about the work at home, that they are keeping, when the 120 comes this year I’ll be hanging at the dealerships they are free, everything should be free if you roll in on a Harley , because without us they are done
Same thing was said in the 90’s. We all bought Harley’s after the 90’s. Meanwhile, for the past 3 years, people have bought Every $90,000 Ford F150 and Dodge Charger available. What exactly are we comparing HD prices too?
90k F150 and Chargers!? that much for a standard truck (non-electric) is crazzzzy. But also, a car has more use over a motorcycle, so spending more on a car/truck makes sense than a leisure activity bike.
@@KSMotoCafe Ford dealerships have been putting a 30,000-40,000 markups on new trucks. Labeled as “Market Adjustment”. Idiots are going to be real mad when they try to trade their vehicles in and are told that they are $50,000 upside down in their loan.
Other motorcycle brands, that’s who we are comparing them to. What would you rather have, an affordable and reliable bike, or a old model with new paint?
Are they too expensive? Hell, I do not know, I purchased a used 2009 Honda Shadow Aero. Regrets? None. Did it need work? Yes it did, but I have done all the work needed to get the motorcycle in good running order. Take care, ride safe.
My vote for most stupid marketing choice has to be the description of the new Heritage. It literally says "if Bonnie and Clyde rode a motorcycle, this would be it." That is the outright dumbest sh!t I've ever heard in my gd life. They were a couple in their 20s, practically just kids, that was gunned down inside their car by 50 cops around 1929, fully 90 years ago. They never rode bikes and were never associated with bikes in any way. Young people today wouldn't even know who the hell they were and wouldn't care, especially a century later. Where exactly is the allure of fantasizing about being a 20-something bank-robber that dies in a hail of gunfire... on a bike ??? But this is Harley Davidson marketing today. Completely bonehead clueless on every level with respect to what people today want in a motorcycle. I want a reliable safe nice-looking machine to get from point A to point B and have some fun doing it. I don't want to prove that I'm a badass m'f'r and go on a rampage and go out in a blaze of glory when the law catches up with me. I also don't want to blow my life's savings on a CVO which is just a regular HD bike with a bit more paint and chrome on it along with some BS $2 "special" or "limited edition" logos rubber-stamped on it.
@@KSMotoCafe I just went to the USA and Canadian HD official websites and looked under Heritage and I could no longer find the Bonnie and Clyde description but I know I read it there a while back so I did a general Google search for it and it came up with lots of examples from 2020 and 2021. So it would appear that HD has dropped that B&C text but it was definitely out there recently enough. I found links to it written in other languages so it was also used internationally. I'm glad that HD dropped the reference because it was super corny and stupid. Look for the following texts... - Riders ready to chase excitement across state lines (this line still appears on present day website for 2023, dunno what it means) - A DARK CLASSIC WITH MODERN EDGE Dripping with gangster-era style and vintage details. If Bonnie and Clyde rode a Harley™ motorcycle, this would be the one. - you get a look that drips with gangster-era style (this text still appears for 2023 on some dealerships sites like this one...) rockys-harley.com/showroom/4/harley-davidson/3/motorcycles/1316/38202/flhcsheritageclassic Present day HD official site for Heritage... www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/heritage-classic.html General search for the old description... www.google.com/search?q=harley+davidson+heritage+classic+bonnie+and+clyde www.yorkhd.com/PrintInventory-Harley-Davidson-Motorcycle-Scooter-FLHCS-Heritage-Classic-114-Eisenhauer-s-Chesapeake-Harley-Davidson--id-12399759
This is a little off-topic, but has anyone else seen that stupid "Jack Daniels" edition Indian that's coming out, limited to 177 units globally or something. It claims there's "actual whiskey" in the paint. Right, like alcohol and syrup in paint is a good thing. They don't say how much, it could be 1 drop per gallon of paint, but it's in there boys. I have to question how smart it is to market a motorcycle (or car or any motor vehicle) as being closely associated with a brand of booze. You know, because drinking and driving has always worked out so well and it's just so much fun for all.
Thanks for watching! Let me and my viewers know what your thoughts are about whether or not HD is being too greedy or not. Also if you believe I did some good work and wish to send some "atta boy", be sure to check out my patreon: www.patreon.com/ksmotocafe
I've been wanting to upgrade to a new Softail for a few years now because of the numerous advantages over my 2009 Sportster 1200 Custom. However, I've got about $9000 (CAD) invested in mods and upgrades and the bike is finally everything I ever wanted in an EVO Harley. The problem is that if I buy a new one, say a Softail Standard, a Deluxe, or Heritage, I'll get the sixth gear I've been craving, but I'll have to start over again with the mods (Harley Tax) and also pay through the nose for the bike itself. Even a couple/three years used, they cost around $22500 to $24500 in my area in Ontario. At 60 years old, I can't afford to spend that much money on a luxury item. I have to save for retirement. I've been riding my Sportster since new in 2009 and bike prices have kept going up since then. The present lack of dealer stock and the ridiculous dealer markups have been keeping me from entering the building even to take a look. There's nothing there to see except T-shirts and crap. Regarding improvements to later models, ABS and keyless start and some models getting cruise control is all good but other serious issues remain. Fewer color choices, models still shipping with incandescent lamps, cheaper uglier wheels, and many models no longer even have a proper gauge, just that stupid tiny $5 LCD bullsh!t. All that said, if I ever do buy a Softail, it'll definitely be used and with stage-1 upgrade and other mods already on it. Buying a new one now is out of the question. If I hear words like "stripped down", "bobber style", "classic", or "blank canvas" again, I'll f'ing scream. They might as well say "pay more, get less, so you can enjoy spending even more later".
yeah HD spends more money on their word smithing and paint department than actual R&D
I started on a 2020 iron 883 as well. If the rebel 11oo had been out when I started riding, I would have bought that instead. I can’t lie about it. It’s so much more motorcycle for the money. Be that as it is, I traded in for my ‘21 Low Rider S last February. I planned on riding my iron a while longer but I was afraid HD was going to start drastically raising prices, which they did, so I made the switch before all the surcharges and major price increases! So glad I did. I would not, and will not be buying anymore new Harley Davidson motorcycles until they can get their act together, if that ever happens. I cannot stand this ceo. Harley has lost their way. I can go on and on, but it won’t change anything. I don’t see how the current business strategy is sustainable long term?
man you got a good deal on that LRS if you bought the 21 model last year
also their business strategy is not sustainable because their retention is not as good and their new bikes are not drawing new customers (due to price). My guess is give it one more year before the CEO is replaced
@@KSMotoCafe No, I didn’t get a good deal….. I got a GREAT DEAL 👍. Lol. They made it too good to pass up. They really wanted to move it for the new models.
Love the brand… hate the prices. Similar to you I’m looking for the upgrade… we will see if HD gains a customer.
Great video man. Keep up the great work.
Nicely used Hd is the way to go
@@KSMotoCafe nah… I’ll be doing new.
Before I watch this video: YES!
I'll never have a new Harley; because of the pricing. 😔
Love the channel and content. I share the same rant. I am blessed to enjoy a 2012 Sportster Nightster XL1200N, a 2013 Dyna Street Bob FXDB, and a 2016 Softail Slim S FLSS. I will be keeping all of them. Love the brand, and all things Harley. That said, not sure I would ever buy a new Harley...I prefer to buy used from a private party. I believe Harley need Matt Levatich back in some form to help add more balance. The direction Harley are going seems to be giving other manufacturers the opportunity to gain rider and dollar share.
yeah I agree that used HD at good deal is best way to do it
No, they haven't always been expensive. They used to be a brand for the common folks. Now they're a brand for rich people.
and rich folk arent as cool to talk to as common folk!
Hey man, great to see your channel coming along!
I totally share the sentiment like most of us now. I can only guess that banking on the rich is the safest bet for them in these inflated volatile times. You do wonder though why there isn't a viable alternative for the cruiser king of the world when everybody's begging for more affordability. I have to agree that their future looks very dim on the current path.
but even rich people can be frugal and wants a deal! if they lose the middle class from buying Hd, they will fold for sure
@@KSMotoCafe I love the bikes as much as the next fan but if that's the way it goes then I can't say I'd feel sorry for them :(
Yes, new Harleys are WAY overpriced, but Harley has always cost more than pretty much every other brand out there...but I don't really care, because I've never bought a new vehicle in my life & at soon to be 54 years old, I don't see that changing any time soon...too many sweet deals out there on privately owned bikes that people bought & never rode for me to worry about going to a stealership for anything...
You are spot on there. Great bixe but such high prices. As far as I know a lot of them are made in India so HD can't point the finger at Japanese bixe being cheaper because of their main labour costs. If I'm wrong on that let me know.
only the street series were made in India (street 500 and 750) but Hd cancelled them when they werent selling well
Harley Davidson is a complete disaster of a company since their new CEO took over. Granted some of their new bikes are interesting such as the Pan America, the nightster and new sportsters. Nice bikes. Absolutely idiotic pricing. Harleys approach is, if u want to get into Harley but can't afford new go with their used bikes. Well let's see, a used Softail that's almost twenty years old with 50000 kms on it is more money then a brand new Vulcan. The Vulcan will outlast that Harley by hundreds of thousands of kms. Ok so there is the engine comparison, yup lot more horses in the Harley. But get real..... That extra money is paying for a badge. I love Harley motorcycles but their arrogant approach to introducing people to their products turns me right off. I wish they would get a grip on reality. Until they do, I and many others will continue to buy far better crafted Japanese motorcycles that offer superior reliability and nearly as many customization options.
You're correct, their prices are too high. However, I still want one. Most likely, I go with pre-owned one which 1, 2 or 3 years old and has low miles.
A soft tail standard is 20k out the out the door or at lest that’s what I am paying
Here’s my take. I have owned 6 Harleys including a 2020 Livewire. They have always been expensive, but now it has become ridiculous. Mark-ups, delivery, dealer prep etc. I think Zeitz is driving up the stock price for the shareholders and maybe even to make the company more attractive for selling or taking on a financial partner.
I now have a Pan America and it has been the most unreliable bike that I’ve owned. Back to Honda for this kid. I agree, who cares about their electric bicycles? Even the new livewires don’t say Harley💩
I also am not buying anymore overpriced gear with HARLEY plastered all over it. Even Indian looks interesting to me now
and your 6 HD bikes were top notch choices too!
You're right. Saw the new Sportster today, instant head turn. Then saw the price-point. +16k USD 🫣Don't love it.
I've heard it said that HD Corp can't actually stop the dealerships from marking up prices but if they can, they should, because the so-called "surcharge" is bad enough but dealers tacking on 10% to 20% markups on top is just too much. HD would be gone already if it wasn't for the govt imposing huge tariffs on other brands in order to preserve market share for HD. Even with that huge advance, HD is flailing. Other countries such as Australia and the UK have since imposed their own tariffs against HD making HD bikes super expensive over there and that's got to be crippling sales. Here in North America, the dealerships are often huge and well decorated and very expensive to staff but that's been true forever. I don't know what has changed but it seems like the dealerships can barely keep the lights on anymore let alone keep bikes in stock. They have already cut back on hours so much that I have to take time off work to go to a dealership. Sure, there's a few huge dealerships with upwards of 30 to 50 bikes in the showroom on any given day but those are few and far between. The nearest dealership to me that's like that is a 6 hour drive away. I've never been there. The ones closer, like 1 to 2 hours away, only have 6 to 12 in stock and that includes the used ones and some of them are 20 years old. Maybe if they cut down on the showroom bling and stocked more bikes then they'd sell more. And what's with the $50 T-shirts? I've heard that HD Corp has been lying about their profits by buying their own stocks to make it look like they're more profitable than they really are. They've been borrowing against themselves for at least the last 5 years in a row and it has to bottom-out soon. Charging $20,000 for a $12,000 model (i.e. Sportster) or charging $60,000 for a limited edition CVO touring bike is not going to float the company. Charging $29,000 for a Softail-anything is just insane and the touring bikes are pushing $40,000+ and the Tri-Glides are over $55,000. Adding more anchors like surcharges and 10%+ markups is going to sink the ship. Also, investing in a "made in China" motor to reduce cost might not be such a great idea. I'm not saying the quality wouldn't be adequate, it probably would be if HDC oversees it. I'm talking about the present world political stage. With Putin going wild and China threatening to join him, that combined with China's silicon microchip war against the world, and China threatening to invade Taiwan, the world's leading microchip producer, now might be the worst time since WWI to sign any contracts with China. No, I think HD has to sink or swim within North America but to do that, they have to knock off the grossly outdated "culture" BS and get their prices in order and bring back a proper "entry level" line of bikes. Selling tons of entry level bikes would be the bread and butter for the company, just like the V6 Pentastar cars/suvs are for Dodge. Make no mistake, there would be no Dodge Scatpack 392 or Dodge Hellcat muscle-cars at all if it wasn't for the affordable daily driver V6 models carrying the entire company. It seems like HD Corp wants to sell only Hellcats (if you get my drift) from now on and that's never gonna happen. Don't even get me started on that "electric bikes only" crap the CEO was talking about. I'd give up riding altogether before I'd ever own any stupid electric bike.
I would guess the CEO's time in the seat has a timer on it now. What you mentioned about Hellcats is exactly what Hd is doing but only from price and not actual performance
@@KSMotoCafe Maybe something like a bike with the factory 131ci stage-4 (LRST ?) might qualify as a Hellcat analogous trim level compared to standard 114 but I don't expect they'll sell a whole helluva lot of them because they cost about $8000 USD more than the 114 stage-0. With respect to electric, I mean absolutely no disrespect to any Livewire owners or anyone who legitimately wants to go full electric, and maybe I am a real old dinosaur that the planet is better off without, I'll admit that, but the bottom line is that I want to keep my old petrol-powered ICE bike. I love the sound and the vibration of a machine that seems truly alive while it's running. I get a huge thrill riding it. I'll never go electric. Never ever. I can't imagine sitting at a red light, dead-quiet, and getting only a little whine when I take off. Super high torque that snaps my neck doesn't appeal to me either. At least with my ICE, I can carry some extra gas on a really long stretch, or I can count on gas stations existing along the way. With an electric, it just dies wherever you are and that's it, you're done. As for charging stations, well, there's not a whole lot of those across my province just yet. So-called fast-charging hasn't been ironed out either. No standard hardware exists as yet. Have fun holding up your whole group for an hour (assuming DC Fast Charge which you probably can't find). There's no history on electric motorcycles yet either. Will it burn down your house sitting inside the attached garage someday? How many years will the battery last? How much will it cost to replace? When you finally need a new battery, will the manufacturer still be producing your specific model? How much of its capacity will it lose before you are willing to pony up for a new one? Would it make more sense to invest that money in a new e-bike? How much could you get for the old dead one? So when you plunk down your $22,800 USD+ fees + tax on your Livewire, make sure you're okay with the risks involved with that battery's future because everything depends on it. Bear in mind the Heritage 114 costs a bit less (totally different riding setup, I know). But check out that Livewire 0-60mph time of just 3s (and no shifting, just one big yank). I'm sure someone will love that but not me, I'd like to keep my lunch down.
@@KSMotoCafe One last thing about the HD CEO saying "going all electric", I know that I already made it pretty clear what I think of E-bikes, and I know that a full fledged electric motorcycle is in another class of EV than your garden variety budget E-bike, but that's what they said about Tesla and other electric cars too, yet there's still a lot of unpredictable serious fires happening which is why I'm not ready to consider owning one and storing it in my garage and putting my entire home and family at risk. Here's just one recent example...
E-bike battery sparks 5-alarm fire in the Bronx: FDNY
th-cam.com/video/eBscN-TKF9A/w-d-xo.html
When I talk with young riders, one consistent theme is they don't care where the bike is made. They are primarily focused on a "lifestyle" of which there are several being marketed. For instance, a lot of hipsters are going for the cafe type bike, then there's BMW, Triumph, Indian, etc. etc. Also, most have a negative view of the politically-incorrect "Harley-Rider." It is what it is. Is Harley pricing itself out of the market? Yes, and in two ways: 1) they are overpriced when compared to all the others ($500 for a big twin oil change/service?!!), 2) Harley doesn't know who its core customers are-- nobody's watching American Choppers any longer LOL! Add to that, the economy has been in a nosedive for the last two years, and out government has hit the afterburners eagerly watching the ground speed ever closer... Who's going to be buying new motorcycles when they struggle to heat their homes, commute to work, or repair their cars? Pay the rent, or buy a chrome skull-laden Harley?
you are exactly on point on this!
All very good points except I'd say Harley knows exactly who their core customer is and it's men in thier late 30s and beyond and people who want to be associated with the "Harley lifestyle" or club culture. Those people are slowly going away and so with it will go the brand.
Harley should stick to who their customers are. The American muscle lover, the patriot, the marine, the anti woke, the republican, the laborer, the redneck etc. The middle class all American man and woman who loves their country and prides themselves in supporting American and being loud about it!
The entry to this fashion show is expensive it is what it is pay or move on is your opinion
Harley corporate is clueless, I live in the Milwaukee area and been riding for 15 years and I seen a severe decline in every aspect, 10 years ago I gotta 883 Iron for 8k new lol, they flooded the market, too many were going to auction, in 2017, I got a 16 Roadglide Limited with 1800 miles on it for $18500 from a HD dealer lol, now they cut back and charge more, and don’t get me started about the work at home, that they are keeping, when the 120 comes this year I’ll be hanging at the dealerships they are free, everything should be free if you roll in on a Harley , because without us they are done
18500 for a roadglide!! what a steal in today's standard
Paid 30k last fall for my 22 RG Spec Reef Blue/Vivid/Chrome 😂😂😂lol
Same thing was said in the 90’s. We all bought Harley’s after the 90’s.
Meanwhile, for the past 3 years, people have bought Every $90,000 Ford F150 and Dodge Charger available.
What exactly are we comparing HD prices too?
90k F150 and Chargers!? that much for a standard truck (non-electric) is crazzzzy. But also, a car has more use over a motorcycle, so spending more on a car/truck makes sense than a leisure activity bike.
@@KSMotoCafe Ford dealerships have been putting a 30,000-40,000 markups on new trucks. Labeled as “Market Adjustment”. Idiots are going to be real mad when they try to trade their vehicles in and are told that they are $50,000 upside down in their loan.
Other motorcycle brands, that’s who we are comparing them to. What would you rather have, an affordable and reliable bike, or a old model with new paint?
@@noidreculse8906 Who? What company compares to Harley Davidson? 120 Years of History. Who? BMW?
@@aucklandsadventures Indian motorcycles and maybe royal einfeld
Are they too expensive?
Hell, I do not know, I purchased a used 2009 Honda Shadow Aero.
Regrets? None.
Did it need work? Yes it did, but I have done all the work needed to get the motorcycle in good running order.
Take care, ride safe.
Hell yes
My vote for most stupid marketing choice has to be the description of the new Heritage. It literally says "if Bonnie and Clyde rode a motorcycle, this would be it." That is the outright dumbest sh!t I've ever heard in my gd life. They were a couple in their 20s, practically just kids, that was gunned down inside their car by 50 cops around 1929, fully 90 years ago. They never rode bikes and were never associated with bikes in any way. Young people today wouldn't even know who the hell they were and wouldn't care, especially a century later. Where exactly is the allure of fantasizing about being a 20-something bank-robber that dies in a hail of gunfire... on a bike ??? But this is Harley Davidson marketing today. Completely bonehead clueless on every level with respect to what people today want in a motorcycle. I want a reliable safe nice-looking machine to get from point A to point B and have some fun doing it. I don't want to prove that I'm a badass m'f'r and go on a rampage and go out in a blaze of glory when the law catches up with me. I also don't want to blow my life's savings on a CVO which is just a regular HD bike with a bit more paint and chrome on it along with some BS $2 "special" or "limited edition" logos rubber-stamped on it.
omg really?? can you link the dealership site that has this exact description? that is so messed up lol
@@KSMotoCafe I just went to the USA and Canadian HD official websites and looked under Heritage and I could no longer find the Bonnie and Clyde description but I know I read it there a while back so I did a general Google search for it and it came up with lots of examples from 2020 and 2021. So it would appear that HD has dropped that B&C text but it was definitely out there recently enough. I found links to it written in other languages so it was also used internationally. I'm glad that HD dropped the reference because it was super corny and stupid.
Look for the following texts...
- Riders ready to chase excitement across state lines (this line still appears on present day website for 2023, dunno what it means)
- A DARK CLASSIC WITH MODERN EDGE
Dripping with gangster-era style and vintage details. If Bonnie and Clyde rode a Harley™ motorcycle, this would be the one.
- you get a look that drips with gangster-era style (this text still appears for 2023 on some dealerships sites like this one...)
rockys-harley.com/showroom/4/harley-davidson/3/motorcycles/1316/38202/flhcsheritageclassic
Present day HD official site for Heritage...
www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/heritage-classic.html
General search for the old description...
www.google.com/search?q=harley+davidson+heritage+classic+bonnie+and+clyde
www.yorkhd.com/PrintInventory-Harley-Davidson-Motorcycle-Scooter-FLHCS-Heritage-Classic-114-Eisenhauer-s-Chesapeake-Harley-Davidson--id-12399759
This is a little off-topic, but has anyone else seen that stupid "Jack Daniels" edition Indian that's coming out, limited to 177 units globally or something. It claims there's "actual whiskey" in the paint. Right, like alcohol and syrup in paint is a good thing. They don't say how much, it could be 1 drop per gallon of paint, but it's in there boys. I have to question how smart it is to market a motorcycle (or car or any motor vehicle) as being closely associated with a brand of booze. You know, because drinking and driving has always worked out so well and it's just so much fun for all.
this sounds like a bad rumour - I really hope it is false