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I was lucky enough to get Onkyo RZ50 on Amazon last week. I'm a newbie on this, but I want to take advantage to get all the "juice out" of the AV receiver. Do you recommend this amplifier or a different one for the RZ50 ?
Let me start by saying that I love the Cheesecake Factory!! I also like buffets, meaning that I like having options, which is why I'm somewhat confused by your rant, although extremely entertaining. 😅. I have the M33 *love ❤️ it) as well as multiple Bluesound products feeding other A/V processors, and I think that you exaggerated the 'analysis paralysis" a little bit. I do believe that the differences between the NAD products are more pronounced than you stated in your video, and I do think that this a benefit to the consumer. If there's something you don't need NAD doesn'tmake you pay for it. Also, I really wish that you would speak more about what makes the NAD amplification so special, in that they are load invariant and how that benefits the consumer in terms of speaker pairing. Now what I do wish is that NAD/Bluesound(Lenbrook) as a whole offer more products with fully balanced I/O. I would love if 778 was a Prepro, or balanced inputs on the M10. That said, just like the Cheesecake Factory, I don't have a problem with options, chances are, that after seeing everything that’s available, I can get exactly what I want, or buy one for now and something for later 😉. Keep up the great work, and look forward to the next video.
Talking about your "Rant". I have NAD C388 and I saw that they released MDC2 BluOS-D with the C399. So I was like "sweet, so I can have Dirac on my amplifier", but no, my amplifier has MDC and can not be used with MDC2. So this FUTURE PROOF MDC option is now outdated after 4 years. That puts me off NAD.
I mainly reframe from commenting but I feel like I have to give you guys some praise here. I’m so impressed by the editing of this video!!!! Although this video was one of the most confusing and frustrating topic, the filming, editing, transitions, little zoom in animations and sound effects, b-roll shots, all of it is just so damn good! Your guys are killing it. The quality of this video is just top notch and can compete with some of the worlds best youtube videos produced by large teams of professionals. Honestly, I’m so thankful for your time and effort in these videos. I watch your videos almost religiously and wish I could meet you both in person some day. Anyways, I just felt the overwhelming need to commend you on your achievements and how much the videos are improving. THANK YOU
Thanks for the review. Very helpful and interesting. I now have a C399 and with the BluOS it is simply way ahead of everything else (for the price) when you consider it has Dirac too! You sort of complained about NAD amps sounding the same. But consider this. Maybe, just maybe, it is because they are the most neutral and as an electronic design engineer of many years myself, surely that is what one should be aiming for. That being the case, if they are all neutral, then they will all sound the same. This is surely a good thing! I suspect this is very much down to the Class D design. Transistors and valves, operating in class A, B and AB, are all subject to the linearity of the devices (and transformers for most valve amps). But class D, being switching, is arguably far less impacted by linearity. Yes, there is the matter of clean switching, but the technology has moved on considerably. So, with neutral sounding amps that can drive almost anything, you only have to think about the choice of speaker in terms of the sound you want. Surely, also a good thing! Thanks again for the review.
Hi, very insightful comment. Do you think the c399 is a good match for the LS50 Meta? I have a T758 (110w) and OPPO 105 then just got a emotiva basx a3 (150w amp). Not much difference compared to the receiver by itself. I think I’m good with my 2.1 setup even for videos. So the thought of the c399 w/ blue OS replacing my receiver, amp, WiiM pro and OPPO which I only use as a dac is appealing.
@@slowinfastout3304 All I could really think is that if the LS50 is fairly neutral itself, then the C399 should be OK. I read of amps being bright to match speakers that are less bright, but one could be endlessly trying out pairings. In addition, with Bluos this should help compensate for speakers that have less than ideal frequency responses. Difficult to drive speakers should be OK with the C399. The LS50s do get very good reviews.
Greetings from Hamilton, Ontario Canada. Your videos are the best for reviewing new gear and I love the dynamic between you both at the end of each one. Keep up the good work.
First of all: To me, a clean, flat, and 'boring' amplifier is exactly what I want, any day of the week. I want my speaker choice to be the main factor in how my system sounds. An amplifier that doesn't add or subtacts anything allows me to take one more component out of the sound equation, and i don't have to worry about the amp not matching the speakers. In a perfect world (for me), all amps should be as close to reference as possible, as their task is to just tell the speakers how the MUSIC sounds, not alter it. Second: if all NAD amps sound pretty much the same, and the M33 sounds amazing, I'd take that to mean that the cheaper amps also sound amazing, so NAD really knows how to bring top performance down the price range, which I also don't see how you can complain about. I'll definitely be looking towards NAD for my future hifi upgrade
This is simply not what people want to hear, they want to “upgrade’ their system’s sound. It’s no fun when you have a almost perfect amp. Strange really, they frown at equalizers but they love amps that have a “sound”.
@@iBlindPanic generally when a speaker is very bright, you combine it with an amp with more bass response and it goes pretty well. at the same time, there are speakers that are very boomy and a neutral amp is preferred
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 not really an argument, if both the speaker and amp simply reproduce the sound as it was when recorded this in an non issue. Like I said: it seems that some like to chase the perfect system more then actually just getting it. Same with the dislike of eq, what you describe is actually eq but its not adjustable. Anyway: I have this amp incoming, looking forward to it.
@@iBlindPanic I mean that's typicali how you make a stereo setup, some amps just don't sound good with certain speakers, others make them sound just right. It's not just eq, some speakers just demand more power, my 948s drop to 2.5 ohms nominal, so although they are relatively sensitive, they need more power to really move the woofers. Let me know how you like it. I currently run separates, Azur 851N and 851W, but I'm considering selling and getting the 399.
I understand the rant, however I feel like the point that is being missed here is that amplifiers by rights shouldn’t add or subtract anything, and consequently we’ll designed amplifiers operating within their limits should sound the same or at least very similar. We have all become accustomed to amplifiers adding flavour to our systems and this move towards high performance class D is walking away from that. There’s going to be an adjustment period as we all become familiar with this.
Try buying a 2023 Toyota Camry (US) and you’ll find 13 different models to choose from, each with its own sprouting tree of options to add on. Now, pick one of the top models and start comparing features and specs to the equivalent Lexus models (US) and you’ll soon reach for that bottle of Tylenol and just take the bus instead.
Speaking of cars, one of the funniest car shopping experiences we've had was looking at a Volkswagen Tiguan Ltd a few years ago. Sitting in the front passenger seat, I said "where's the phone charger?" and the sales person said "oh the Limited model doesn't come with one". Hilarious that in 2020 a car wouldn't come without one but I guess the model name "Limited" was true to its word.
I enjoyed this mini rant on the whole NAD portfolio. I came away actually more impressed by the sheer volume of the variety of units at all different price points in there lineup. There's something for everyone. I still regret selling my NAD 778 last year for separates. I miss its gorgeous color touchscreen, cool running class D amps, and built-in BluOS. It's the best sounding AVR I've ever heard and competes favorably against separates.
In this day when most people are buying equipment unheard, I would argue having everything in their lineup sound virtually identical makes purchasing easier. Potential customers can make their decisions on quantifiable qualities like price, form factor, inputs and other features.
I have zero experience with NAD other than seeing / hearing it in the showroom. So I will comment on what I do know. The new Eames is gorgeous, it looks fantastic in your home. Have a great weekend!!!
@@scpjmartin powenode n330, does it have as much dynamics and detail openness, power as the more expensive c399? I am about to buy an amplifier streamer, doubting between c-389 the cheaper brother of c-399 or Bluesound powernode n330. now have a primary i15 prism. which of the two will make the biggest difference? According to Andrew, none of it matters. maybe durability and consumption?
I have tried n330 with Monitor Audio platinum 100 mk2 and it can drive them but not as my currently Yamaha as1000 (the mids are hidden with n330 and highs are uncontrolled) so I return it and ordered c399...thats gonna be in april so will see whats gonna happen then
We sincerely appreciate you watching and glad you enjoyed the video, Steve. With respect to your comment about TH-camrs: One can be honest, maintain credibility and still earn a living. We are thankful for the companies who sponsor the channel so we can continue to bring you free content every week. It's unfortunate that TH-camrs are often vilified or deemed untrustworthy for simply earning a living by having channel sponsors or affiliate links. As long as one discloses as we do, I see nothing wrong with it. Hopefully, you see the next review we do as equally credible even though it will be sponsored.
I’m looking for a two channel with HDMI to watch TV/movies as well as listen to music. I know you like the sound of the Marantz 40N (I like the warmer sound as well), but could that power a pair of Polk R700s sufficiently or should I stick with the extra power from the NAD C399 and Dirac benefits? Love the channel, thanks for all the insights!
Hi Brian, really appreciate the support! If you already own the NAD or were planning to go that route, that will be a very good pairing and offer improvements due to DIRAC, but yes, the 40N will work with the R700s, it's a combo we use frequently.
Great review --- I like integrated amps. I don't like integrated amps with DACs or other technologies that are in the process of evolving. For two, three, four and five thousand dollars, I think your money is better spent on a rock solid integrated 2 channel amp with no add-ons. With this in mind, I am looking at a Zen Streamer. At four hundred dollars, it can be replaced in a few year and my rock solid integrated amps remains relevant.
I agree with commenter Cheeky. Many of us are only vaguely interested in the latest gear of the week that’s reviewed. Why we watch is to see your reaction to it. Today, Andrew, you let it all out, you REALLY told us what you thought. That’s what makes a great video review. You made me care. Thanks. It was great fun watching! And I learned something.
I don't need the swoop noise. I can see you zoom in and out, the swoop noise is just annoying. Good points well made. As someone that started in HiFi with a 3020, NAD has a warm place in my memory. A little sad to see them messing around.
Well, there is an audio difference. The more basic models use Hypex ucd amps This and the M10 and some other M products use hypex ncore amps The m33 and c298 use Purifi amp circuits Measurably Purify > ncore > ucd. However differences between good amps are small anyway so you would need a super revealing speaker to really appreciate the subtle audible differences.
Great review as NAD is high on my list. ❤️ I wonder if the C298 will sound “different” given its different design or whether it’s just going to be neutral set at 11 🤔? (Then I’ll buy a streamer like the C658…) And I don’t mind neutral btw
Thank you for supporting the channel, Alex. I can't speak to the C298's performance as I have not tested it personally, but based on experience with other amps in the line, I would not expect a vastly different sound or experience.
Wow, you hit the nail on the head! Me, as a newbie, was looking through their product line and it is totally confusing! Like you mentioned, you find product x interesting and further down the row there is product y which may also be interesting and from their on you do not really know why you found product x interesting because you just forgot all the feature it has! It just makes no sense that when you have a list in you head, where you want like HDMI, blue sound and maybe a display you can't really get it except you spend like 5k because in each lower products always one thing of you wanting list has been not implemented. This review really pushed me even further to the powernode! Thank you !
Sounds like NAD hired a new MBA that told them how to market their line for better profits……Your car sales analogy was spot on. Playing games with features trying to push you up a model. Subscriptions for features could be next. Like paying monthly for heated seats in your BMW. What a mess.
Don't see your point. They have enough models for various budget I don't see anything wrong with that and people forget they provide modules that gives flexibility for the future "I call that progress". Been a HiFi guy for over 50 years I like the progress NAD has made. The world market is diverse and NAD is in many countries the USA is only one player. As I worked in over 20 countries I saw firsthand how diverse HiFi markets can be.NAD is playing the world market People forget that.
Hi, I enjoy your videos, but with respect I have to disagree. I own a T758 and a Powernode 2i. This week I demo'd the T758 connected to a C298, the C399, and the M33. To my ears the C399 sounded significantly better than T758/C298 combo and the M33 sounded better than the C399. I was so impressed with the demo that I plan to buy a C399 for music playback. If the M33 did HT bypass, I would have been tempted to buy it as there's a really good deal on it in the UK at the moment. Thanks!
I'm thoroughly enjoying my M32 driving my B&W 804D3s. After adjusting the tone control the 804s really sing, and provides so much joy. Now I borrowed a brand new M33 (even had to do the unpacking) and compared it to the M33. They were so similar in the sound profile. The M33 provided a very slightly more controlled bass, however in some songs I preferred the M32 and others the M33, so I took the M33 back to the dealer and are stille enjoying my M32. The amount of value is immense in the NAD products. However I must admit that the price increase on the M33 is not justified at all. The M32 shipped with a very fair price, even when you factor in the Bluos MDC module.
Always good to hear Kristi’s 2 cents. A second perspective is good. Even if you both agree, there is usually something else to consider after the second review. And when you disagree, its great TV, so to speak. Cheers
Thank you for this, but - and perhaps because i am unfamiliar with online reviews (not to the audio world: I've been in that for 5 decades) - I am not hearing comments about how certain pieces of music actually sound when played thru the component. But then, maybe - for some - the features are more important. I'm primarily interested in how music - classical, jazz and blues - sound on it. It does not seem to be a review of the 399 amp, merely the features of it.
Absolutely loved the rant. NAD is a great company that makes great products, but the constant overlapping feature sets across various lines is absolutely an odd choice. They would do well to pare everything down to 3 simple products, budget, mid, and high end, and disperse feature set/power ratings accordingly.
I sometimes disagree with you guys, but the thing that I absolutely love is that you are not afraid to take the companies to task like Yamaha. Your channel is big enough for them to listen.....you don't get that on TH-cam nowadays. Great job 👍🏽
Agree with you. They need to greatly simplify the line up. Just standardize on purifi amp modules and BluOS. And make Dirac an option on everything. I’m still hoping their random product generator algorithm spits out an M10 minus the screen for like $1600.
Watching the video today on NADs 50 year history prompted me to visit their website to look at the stereo amplifiers. After 5 minutes or so, I felt hopelessly lost. I would have no clue what to buy so I left the website. Interesting how your video raises the concerns that I felt. Regarding the industry in general, I bet 95% of potential audiophiles are driven away by the daunting task of just figuring it all out.
Agreed! I actually spent a lot of time deciding which NAD product to get and had a little analysis paralysis about it. I ended up going with the M10 V2 as I liked the form factor and I wanted Dirac. Very happy with it so far.
I believe by having so many products in their lineup, it keeps the potential customer in a shoppers paralysis - trying to choose which tier to buy into - rather than looking around or even considering options at other brands. Essentially NAD has already made the sale when you’re comparing NAD products against themselves.
Although yes a good bit of rambling, not having kept up with all the corporate machinations over the decades I appreciated the overview of the current NAD and Bluesound and a good overview of the NAD integrated/ Receiver line. An NAD 1300 Preamp drives my system currently. So it was worth the lengthy listen, on a dreary Sunday morning waiting for the Packer Game.
Um, I liked the rants. Especially, since this actually helped clarify the whole NAD/Bluesound line for me, for the first time ever!! AND this whole video kinda become a stoked out value proposition promo for the C 700. “Wait a minute, it’s a Bluesound PowerNode WITH a volume knob AND a screen? Yes, please!!” 😆😁 Really, this vid is THE best thing to happen to NAD marketing.
I completely agree with big thing that you’re frustrated with. It makes no sense. I do like the NAD “sound.” I find to lean neutral which has been my preference. The M10 v2 screen is sexy. It’s one of the reasons I went with it. Oh, and kudos to Kristi for bringing up the T778. It’s great and is what is powering the Arendal 1961s in my home theater.
wow- what a rant from Andrew! But, he is right about the direction that NAD is taking. NAD is selling the same thing over and over and relabelling it and then doing it again and again. This was not as easy to do when their amps were AB amps. All of those amps, while having a house sound, still maintained their sonic individuality.
I find these sorts of discussions amusing. twenty years ago I went to powered monitors for my daily listening and never looked back. I've been through a series of different monitors, but I find I like Adams, EVENT, and Dynaudio a lot. Rotel pre-amp, SOTA turntable (Rega/Sumiko), NAD CD player, Panasonic tuner for the rare moments I listen to the radio at home. No amp. Simplified my life, one less thing to try and match to my old passive monitors (Hanson Zilberberg). Waste of time and energy.
They have great marketing, that’s what it is! Just like Apple with iPhone, because there’s one little feature that requires a given model when it seems like it’s just a software limitation forcing people to want to upgrade to the next best thing.
At least there are (as of this comment) only 4 iPhones. Two different sized flagships and two different sized "lesser" models which makes the decision (somewhat) easier than what NAD is doing here with their line up of amps.
I have thought of the bluOS aspect. But a lot of folks like me probably have the blusound node as one of first things bought. It is for flexibility. I would love the HDMI but then you have my 368 with bluOS and hdmi and now we are at 2000 bucks. I like it.
- Not everyone will want BluOS, some may not want to stream, and some will want another streamer and DAC, so cool that it’s optional. - Integrated Dirac is cool! I would imagine that NAD is having challenges with supply chain issues… that could be affecting the way they make specification decisions.
"are you still here?!" LOL! The Kristi / Andrew exchange was my favorite part! Kristi, I feel you would make a brilliant qualitative researcher! Always relevant way to clarify or follow-up to go deeper into the discussion! Andrew, keep doing what you're doing. Sound authentic and down to earth! Well done guys!
I had a 399, following my negative experience with a Rega Elicit that was very expressive but that edginess got to me and i sold it after 3 months. Now, I did not keep the Nad 399 for long either as it simply did not give me a feeling of living with full bodied sound. Even with volume at full room sound there was no bass that I could feel in my body. I'd never felt so detached from the sound as I was with the NAD, despite its 150 wpc power. The Rega at 105 wpc did very well in this respect. So off to look for a third amp and my local store suggested the new Marantz PM7000n. I was somewhat put off when I heard it was only a 60wpc amp., however hearing it made me sit up and start tapping my foot. It gave me the visceral feeling of engagement and yet was very easy on the ears, unlike the Rega. I'm very happy with the Marantz after 6 months and don't feel the need to look for an alternative. Problem solved.
@@RobWooten I had bought Focal Aria 936s which have 3 bass units, a midrange and an inverted tweeter. They were well balanced but I never had the feeling that my smallish living area was hearing the best of them. They are very large tower speakers and one reviewer said "they need room to breath". I put the Focals into storage and bought a pair of KEF Q750s. These are smaller and livelier than the Focals and they do quite well with the Marantz amp. I did notice a lack of low bass so bought a 10 inch /25cm Wharfedale sub and that solved the lower bass issue. The system really comes to life with more music that has a lot of dynamics. I will stick with this system until I mange to secure a larger flat and then may resurrect the Focals.
My first ever comment here... Love your reviews and this is why you are genuinely the only channel I am subscribed to, thank you both!!! Not only are you informative, honest, neutral and entertaining, you give your watchers something to look forward to and feel part of a community. You are #morethanjusthifi. Thank you. However.... Your chair in the background in this video looks like E.T. after a blow out Christmas Day dinner! Can't unsee it now 🙈
Agreed... Dirac in the 40n could have been a massive advantage over the 399. Makes one wonder though if the lack of DSP might be a reason you prefer the Marantz, along with the amp topology.
Last time I seriously looked at buying NAD hence looking at their line up in detail was right when they came out with M10 Gen 1. The line up was already long. But I managed to narrow down to C658 pre-amp streamer with BluOS as I already had an amp. But ended up getting separate dac, network bridge and Roon. Just went to check their models while watching this video. There are many even more now!
I have an NAD D 3020, V2, which I use in a second system. It is unbeatable for the price ($400 a few years ago). NAD is the king of the budget integrated amp but as you get closer to $1,000, there are better options. My local dealer wanted to sell me a C 399 for my main system. I ended up getting a Rega Elex-R, which for the same money is better in terms of sound and build quality. Since I listen almost exclusively to vinyl and CDs, I do not need the connectivity options of the C 399.
Hi Andrew, Great review and as a NAD M10 owner, unfortunately, I agree with conclusion. Short after I bought the M10 the new Powernode N330 and little later the C700 where released… If I was a few months later in the market for a new amp it saved me a lot of money 😏. I had a NAD T758v3 before and that had a different, more dynamic and warmer sound. Without Dirac the sound difference between a M10 and N330 is minimal. Nevertheless, I enjoy the M10 (paired with the new Dynaudio Emit30). Awesome clean design, the screen, huge fan of BluOS and very detailed and relaxed sound for hours of listening pleasure
What NAD is doing will become even more common across all products not just electronics though it does stem from Apple’s ideologies. Similar examples are present in Car Manufacture’s, while you used Porsche the same applies the Mercedes Benz, Toyota, and the VW umbrella as a whole. While it is annoying becoming an educated consumer and knowing what you actually need for the desired outcome is key.
It makes the choice easy. If you like the NAD sound, then pick the amp with the features, power, style that you want and don't fret that a model using a different tech (Hypex Ucd vs. Ncore vs. Purifi) is significantly better.
@@Audiorevue The review points out that any sound differences between the models is negligible. Certainly not sufficient to necessitate spending a lot more money over a newer module. Preference in features, style, and power rating should be the criteria for purchasing.
@@stephenbailey9969 well apparently you've not heard the c298. That is quite literally the first class d amplifier that I've heard that I can actually stand to listening to and enjoy. I don't mean to be overly critical but I've always found class d sort of lifeless sounding, and I know people tend to make generalizations about it and say similar things but that's just what I've heard personally. With the new purifi modules for whatever reason they just sounds brilliant and really bring the music alive in a way that I'm not heard from class d before.
@@Audiorevue I'm simply responding to the review on this channel in which they have heard a number of those amps firsthand. They have said that the differences in sound were negligible. If that is the case, then why spend more for a newer tech when you can get the features you want for less? Of course, all that depends on whether you like the NAD sound. I'm happy you found something you like.
@@stephenbailey9969 of course and I appreciate it and I'm not trying to argue with you in any way. But at the end of the day I didn't say that I found something I liked I just said that I had heard the c298 and thought it was brilliant. No man I've got all pass labs stuff so you know I'm kind of on the opposite side of the table
Have you caught wind of all the T778s that have been failing? I bought a T778 after your review. It’s 3 years old and the amp modules have blown. I went online and saw in NAD groups that this is a well known and common problem. When I reach out to them, they told me I’m out of luck and that my $3000 paper weight is out of warranty!! WTH
My first NAD was the M10 v2. I paired it with Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend MK2 and pretty damn happy. I have then added Bluesound Node on my Parasound and GR Research XLR Encore, Bluesound Vault in my office and a few Pulse and flex in smaller rooms. I plan to get a few more. The BlueOS is wonderful. Good review and i get the confusion but it's not that bad.
Well done as usual Andrew. I always enjoy your vivid and detailed descriptions. I do like the eArc availability and dirac live as well for a starter amp that's affordable. Being neutral makes it more interesting to me. Thank you again. Keep it up.
Wow! You really could not be more wrong about this one. I have a NAD M 33 Purifi Eigentakt Amp. I A-B tested with the NAD C 399 Hypex Hybrid Digital nCore Amp. They clearly do not sound the same. Not even in the same Amp Family. I have two additional systems now with the NAD C298 Purifi Eigentakt Amps, mated to the NAD C 658 Streaming DAC. Three Bluesound, Purifi Eigentakt Amp systems throughout the house on a Sunday Morning is amazing! I highly recommend it.
It seems what you are annoyed of I am truly thankful for. In my eyes, NAD has found the recipe to deliver an amp that can provide what they feel is a clean, accurate, neutral, and balanced sound and they strive to deliver that in every single product they make. As it turns out they can do that for hundreds of dollars, but the thing is they really believe in that sound. So what if it only costs x hundreds of dollars to deliver that sound, if they truly believe it's the best possible amp signature then why would they want it to change just because an amp costs 6000$? They would still want it to sound like what they consider to be the best amp, so they need to find other reasons to charge 6000$ for their flagship. I'm sure NAD are not faultless in all business strategies and marketing, but I for one truly appreciate that I don't necessarily have to spend flagship money for flagship sound quality alone, as long as I don't need all the power and/or features that come at the top.
The only thing about this hobby that is frustrating to me is the fact that there are so many brands and options, i cant test them all. This channel and others like it are so fun because i can at least get opinions about gear i may not have considered. Thanks again. Another great cup of coffee and another great review
@@andrewrobinsonreviews the internet can be the best and worst thing to happen to human communication. Content like this is what is good about the internet in general. I think this is what its for. True network of like minded people getting to cut out the salesman/middleman for information. Just thanks
... Andrew, Kristi, I went for the superb Bluesound Powernode 2022 and is delighted. Used the rest of the savings to go on holiday and put a deposit on a brand new car!!! ☺️😂👍🇬🇧 ...
NAD gives you the same sound for most of product line. But they have to subtract features to differentiate. I also think they do it to study the buyers. I think the c700 is mind blowing for that price feature sound.
You hit the nail on the head with a sludge hammer, the utterly confusion now to what to buy is spured by what you just said. I just went through this with amp shopping at a very good shop that offered full cost of an amp if you traded up to 2x the value to get away from this withina year. The lesson I learned is to buy the highest power you can of a brand to bring out your speakers sound to the highest sound. And yes it seems the elusive hdmi port is the bargaining chip.
The one thing I find with NADs newer class d amplifiers, regardless of which model or how much it costs, is there very particular when it comes to speaker pairing, more so than any other amplifiers I've ever used. Pair them with ELAC and they sound dull, pair them with Klipsch speakers and they sound bright, pair them with q acoustics and they sound muddy. I personally found that they shine with focal as well as mission and also most spectacularly with dali speakers.
The main thing NAD need to do is look at their distribution and supply chain . Waiting for some of these products in UK/EU is now into the 3rd month with very little feedback from authorised importers /dealers . I think many would be buyers will be going elsewhere as there are many alternatives .They have dulled the edge of the buying experience.
I have suffered from "too many choices," too. The first time was in college when I left a chain drugstore because I couldn't decide from among the vast array of shampoo offerings. I had no idea if I had dry hair, oily hair, etc. So I left.
Retailers typically shouldn't offer more than three or four choices to people otherwise analysis paralysis sets in and people leave to think it over instead of making an immediate purchase. One low end, one high end and one or two middle choices.
Just my guess, I think there is a branding and target audience thing coming into play with the BluSound brand and the NAD brand. I get that they seem to be a bit SKU intensive which I've learned over time can be a problem over time. Too many choices can lead to a lack of decision-making capabilities. Keep up the good work. For example, I'd consider the BluSound node for my daughters but wouldn't think about a NAD product given their Spotify streaming method of music listening. That said, I wouldn't do NAD mainly as I am not a fan of Class D amplification and just prefer the Class A/B sound.
It is always a problem with doubled products (of course with minor differences). I kind of understand why they released the C399. Many customers having traditional racks don't want to buy a smaller box with a large color screen. They tend to think it is not a real amplifier then. I guess that is the reasoning... and trust me, i am not a fan of old-fashioned boxes too :) * Marantz & Denon * Onkyo & Pioneer * Bluesound & NAD * ...
Been an NAD guy forever. And I agree, they have the infrastructure now to do something noone else can do, and they are messing it up. They could.. Essentially.. Keep to their roots and be vaguely utilitarian, and simply make modular products. Start with bluesound, then the node, then go up, using the same chassis and you simply buy the features you want to add..
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I would do it wouldn't you? Make it plug and play, like a PC. The profit margin would be amazing, and since NAD is already a beloved brand, there wouldn't be a gimmicky feel to it, more of a future proofing feel.
so what would be a better alternative around this or lower price point? just looking for good stereo sound and tv, cd's and streaming music. no surround
Only recently discovered your channel which has a nice way of reviewing products. Personally I think that it is a compliment to NAD that they all sound the same. As Quad used to state, a good amplifier is like a straight wire with gain. So if you have big sonic differences between amps, at best one of those amplifiers is good and the others aren't. I think NAD has a very interesting line up with innovative technologies. But there is a big BUT. I own a C390DD which failed after a few years. It refused to switch on. It actually had some switching on issues from the beginning where occasionally it would not start. I was able to solve this by replace some capacitors in the standby power supply. Then I noticed that all elcaps they use are from unknown Chinese companies. When doing some google searches it turned out that many users encountered the same issues as I did, with various NAD products. Therefore, I would be very reluctant to buy any NAD product again and certainly the gorgeous M33 which uses also too cheap components. Why don't they use Panasonic or Nichicon elcaps? Their products would become so much more reliable.
And the reason I posted that.. You mentioned buying a $500 node having the same streaming experience as the M33. Yes! But.. The rest of that M33 or M10 or C700 or Powernode or Node into outboard amp, WILL be different. So if anything I think NAD in this streaming BlueOS fully integrated market, simply requires a good and solid research effort for the consumer to make the best choice. I guess the cost of a good many choices, comes responsibility. That said, you provide a significant service in that research I'd like to say.
C399 is the M10 for people that don't want a touchscreen and to use their own streamer. Why is hard for marketing people to say such things? It isn't a downside to the people they should be this marketing to.
Great review. Let me lend my experience to support your rant and validate Kristi’s recommendation. 4 years ago I was looking to buy into an NAD product. The C338 couldn’t accommodate a BluOS module whereas the C368 could but cost extra. I ended up buying the T758 v3 AV Receiver as it came with the BluOS module and was less expensive than the base C368. Crazy way to plan a product line up……..
I completely agree with your comments about NAD. I have all but given up with the brand - apart from Bluesound. The Powernode has been a very enjoyable purchase and seems to be lacking very little for my needs.
At under $1000 the Powernode does EVERYTHING the M33 does minus three features; more power, phono preamp and DIRAC. THAT'S IT! Seeing as how you could argue that DIRAC is either a $600 or a $99 upgrade (it is software after all) I don't see the point in paying through the nose to get it with one of NAD's costlier products. Second, with the introduction of the Blusound receiver deal you can now add more analog and phono inputs to your Bluesound setup and for less than $400 (I think). I mean, c'mon. Thanks for watching!
Nad make good products, c368, c388, c338 and so on...only one big problem with all these products, we don't know where to go, I have the c368, a very good amp for its price but...it took me 2 months to decide, they look too much a like...But I am very happy with my c368, it powers the beautiful sonus faber lumina 2, I really like this combo... Ps: you have to like the nad "sound", it's a pretty neutral sound, not too much bass the highs are not too crunchy nor too absent they are as it should be. But apart from their overly complicated catalogue, NAD remains a very good brand
They all do. There is a difference in tone perhaps between classes but within classes you get more similarities than differences (so long as you exclude the potential for coloration from the preamp).
I've been a huge NAD fan since the 80s and still run an old 2400PE. I just haven't jumped in the class D pond. One day maybe. Until I absolutely have to have a new feature on my 2.1 system, I'll stick with it
And for those who may want switchable A&B speakers ......the C399 does NOT have the 2 sets selectable or switchable which is not something any reviewer seems to tell you .
I have a minidsp shd with Dirac for all frequencies and here is my opinion. It really ruins the top end if you bring the curtain up the whole way for adjustment. I instead only use Dirac for frequencies below 250hz. This has been the case in both rooms I have used the MiniDSP SHD in. So you may be happy with the bass only Dirac NAD has built in.
I don’t have a problem with all the models. It’s kind of like modern BMW. I do have issue with them having BluOs and Dirac as add ons. I think they’d own the market if they could include it, and spread those costs out over every unit. But my number one issue with NAD is the plastic buttons and faceplate. Just junk. I’ve had an M10, C658 and C700. The build quality of the non-masters stuff is 1995 Pontiac vibes.
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What's it like for tv watching over hdmi?
@@martinvegas1327 06:22
@@KristiWright Thanks👀
I was lucky enough to get Onkyo RZ50 on Amazon last week. I'm a newbie on this, but I want to take advantage to get all the "juice out" of the AV receiver. Do you recommend this amplifier or a different one for the RZ50 ?
Let me start by saying that I love the Cheesecake Factory!! I also like buffets, meaning that I like having options, which is why I'm somewhat confused by your rant, although extremely entertaining. 😅. I have the M33 *love ❤️ it) as well as multiple Bluesound products feeding other A/V processors, and I think that you exaggerated the 'analysis paralysis" a little bit. I do believe that the differences between the NAD products are more pronounced than you stated in your video, and I do think that this a benefit to the consumer. If there's something you don't need NAD doesn'tmake you pay for it. Also, I really wish that you would speak more about what makes the NAD amplification so special, in that they are load invariant and how that benefits the consumer in terms of speaker pairing. Now what I do wish is that NAD/Bluesound(Lenbrook) as a whole offer more products with fully balanced I/O. I would love if 778 was a Prepro, or balanced inputs on the M10. That said, just like the Cheesecake Factory, I don't have a problem with options, chances are, that after seeing everything that’s available, I can get exactly what I want, or buy one for now and something for later 😉. Keep up the great work, and look forward to the next video.
Talking about your "Rant". I have NAD C388 and I saw that they released MDC2 BluOS-D with the C399. So I was like "sweet, so I can have Dirac on my amplifier", but no, my amplifier has MDC and can not be used with MDC2. So this FUTURE PROOF MDC option is now outdated after 4 years. That puts me off NAD.
this is not what i call futureproofing, bad promise NAD!
Well that is ridiculous NAD… future con
I mainly reframe from commenting but I feel like I have to give you guys some praise here. I’m so impressed by the editing of this video!!!! Although this video was one of the most confusing and frustrating topic, the filming, editing, transitions, little zoom in animations and sound effects, b-roll shots, all of it is just so damn good! Your guys are killing it. The quality of this video is just top notch and can compete with some of the worlds best youtube videos produced by large teams of professionals. Honestly, I’m so thankful for your time and effort in these videos. I watch your videos almost religiously and wish I could meet you both in person some day. Anyways, I just felt the overwhelming need to commend you on your achievements and how much the videos are improving. THANK YOU
Thanks for the review. Very helpful and interesting. I now have a C399 and with the BluOS it is simply way ahead of everything else (for the price) when you consider it has Dirac too! You sort of complained about NAD amps sounding the same. But consider this. Maybe, just maybe, it is because they are the most neutral and as an electronic design engineer of many years myself, surely that is what one should be aiming for. That being the case, if they are all neutral, then they will all sound the same. This is surely a good thing! I suspect this is very much down to the Class D design. Transistors and valves, operating in class A, B and AB, are all subject to the linearity of the devices (and transformers for most valve amps). But class D, being switching, is arguably far less impacted by linearity. Yes, there is the matter of clean switching, but the technology has moved on considerably. So, with neutral sounding amps that can drive almost anything, you only have to think about the choice of speaker in terms of the sound you want. Surely, also a good thing! Thanks again for the review.
Hi, very insightful comment. Do you think the c399 is a good match for the LS50 Meta? I have a T758 (110w) and OPPO 105 then just got a emotiva basx a3 (150w amp). Not much difference compared to the receiver by itself. I think I’m good with my 2.1 setup even for videos. So the thought of the c399 w/ blue OS replacing my receiver, amp, WiiM pro and OPPO which I only use as a dac is appealing.
@@slowinfastout3304 All I could really think is that if the LS50 is fairly neutral itself, then the C399 should be OK. I read of amps being bright to match speakers that are less bright, but one could be endlessly trying out pairings. In addition, with Bluos this should help compensate for speakers that have less than ideal frequency responses. Difficult to drive speakers should be OK with the C399. The LS50s do get very good reviews.
Greetings from Hamilton, Ontario Canada. Your videos are the best for reviewing new gear and I love the dynamic between you both at the end of each one. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much, Sean! Kristi and I really appreciate your support and hope you are well!
First of all: To me, a clean, flat, and 'boring' amplifier is exactly what I want, any day of the week. I want my speaker choice to be the main factor in how my system sounds. An amplifier that doesn't add or subtacts anything allows me to take one more component out of the sound equation, and i don't have to worry about the amp not matching the speakers.
In a perfect world (for me), all amps should be as close to reference as possible, as their task is to just tell the speakers how the MUSIC sounds, not alter it.
Second: if all NAD amps sound pretty much the same, and the M33 sounds amazing, I'd take that to mean that the cheaper amps also sound amazing, so NAD really knows how to bring top performance down the price range, which I also don't see how you can complain about.
I'll definitely be looking towards NAD for my future hifi upgrade
This is simply not what people want to hear, they want to “upgrade’ their system’s sound. It’s no fun when you have a almost perfect amp.
Strange really, they frown at equalizers but they love amps that have a “sound”.
@@iBlindPanic generally when a speaker is very bright, you combine it with an amp with more bass response and it goes pretty well. at the same time, there are speakers that are very boomy and a neutral amp is preferred
@@ArthaxtaDaVince777 not really an argument, if both the speaker and amp simply reproduce the sound as it was when recorded this in an non issue.
Like I said: it seems that some like to chase the perfect system more then actually just getting it. Same with the dislike of eq, what you describe is actually eq but its not adjustable.
Anyway: I have this amp incoming, looking forward to it.
@@iBlindPanic I mean that's typicali how you make a stereo setup, some amps just don't sound good with certain speakers, others make them sound just right. It's not just eq, some speakers just demand more power, my 948s drop to 2.5 ohms nominal, so although they are relatively sensitive, they need more power to really move the woofers.
Let me know how you like it. I currently run separates, Azur 851N and 851W, but I'm considering selling and getting the 399.
Already a member. Just showing my appreciation!
That's very kind of you, Che-Wing. Thank you so much.
I understand the rant, however I feel like the point that is being missed here is that amplifiers by rights shouldn’t add or subtract anything, and consequently we’ll designed amplifiers operating within their limits should sound the same or at least very similar. We have all become accustomed to amplifiers adding flavour to our systems and this move towards high performance class D is walking away from that. There’s going to be an adjustment period as we all become familiar with this.
Try buying a 2023 Toyota Camry (US) and you’ll find 13 different models to choose from, each with its own sprouting tree of options to add on. Now, pick one of the top models and start comparing features and specs to the equivalent Lexus models (US) and you’ll soon reach for that bottle of Tylenol and just take the bus instead.
Speaking of cars, one of the funniest car shopping experiences we've had was looking at a Volkswagen Tiguan Ltd a few years ago. Sitting in the front passenger seat, I said "where's the phone charger?" and the sales person said "oh the Limited model doesn't come with one". Hilarious that in 2020 a car wouldn't come without one but I guess the model name "Limited" was true to its word.
@@KristiWright 😂 "you damn right it's limited!" I believe is the monologue I broke into 😂
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I think that was my line but regardless of who said it, we had a good laugh and the promptly got TF out. :)
And the bigger problem here is that Tpyota models have luxury that can be on par with Lexus in some of their models, for less money
I enjoyed this mini rant on the whole NAD portfolio. I came away actually more impressed by the sheer volume of the variety of units at all different price points in there lineup. There's something for everyone.
I still regret selling my NAD 778 last year for separates. I miss its gorgeous color touchscreen, cool running class D amps, and built-in BluOS. It's the best sounding AVR I've ever heard and competes favorably against separates.
@@lsaideOK an audiocontrol pre-pro. I wish NAD would update the M17.
In this day when most people are buying equipment unheard, I would argue having everything in their lineup sound virtually identical makes purchasing easier. Potential customers can make their decisions on quantifiable qualities like price, form factor, inputs and other features.
I have zero experience with NAD other than seeing / hearing it in the showroom. So I will comment on what I do know. The new Eames is gorgeous, it looks fantastic in your home. Have a great weekend!!!
100% agree. When I started building a 2.x system a couple of years ago, that paralysis is EXACTLY what I felt looking at NAD and just went elsewhere.
Andrew is spot on. I had the M10 and upgraded to the M33, no real difference in the sound. I put in the Powernode, same sound.
Are you saying the sound of the Powernode is as good as the M10? I’m stuck between the Powernode and the NAD C399.
I think it would be hard to tell the difference. I am playing them through a pair of Klipsch La Scala II Speakers.
@@scpjmartin powenode n330, does it have as much dynamics and detail openness, power as the more expensive c399? I am about to buy an amplifier streamer, doubting between c-389 the cheaper brother of c-399 or Bluesound powernode n330. now have a primary i15 prism. which of the two will make the biggest difference? According to Andrew, none of it matters. maybe durability and consumption?
I have tried n330 with Monitor Audio platinum 100 mk2 and it can drive them but not as my currently Yamaha as1000 (the mids are hidden with n330 and highs are uncontrolled) so I return it and ordered c399...thats gonna be in april so will see whats gonna happen then
@@Darokkk why c-399 and not cheaper model c-389?
That rant felt like it was a LONG time coming! 😂😂
Please, please, please, please, please (both of you), NEVER change - you're FAB!! 😁😁💛😁😁
A great honest review Andrew and this is what we need here on TH-cam. To many TH-camrs is all about the money and sponsors. Keep up the good work.
We sincerely appreciate you watching and glad you enjoyed the video, Steve. With respect to your comment about TH-camrs: One can be honest, maintain credibility and still earn a living. We are thankful for the companies who sponsor the channel so we can continue to bring you free content every week. It's unfortunate that TH-camrs are often vilified or deemed untrustworthy for simply earning a living by having channel sponsors or affiliate links. As long as one discloses as we do, I see nothing wrong with it. Hopefully, you see the next review we do as equally credible even though it will be sponsored.
I’m looking for a two channel with HDMI to watch TV/movies as well as listen to music. I know you like the sound of the Marantz 40N (I like the warmer sound as well), but could that power a pair of Polk R700s sufficiently or should I stick with the extra power from the NAD C399 and Dirac benefits?
Love the channel, thanks for all the insights!
Hi Brian, really appreciate the support! If you already own the NAD or were planning to go that route, that will be a very good pairing and offer improvements due to DIRAC, but yes, the 40N will work with the R700s, it's a combo we use frequently.
Great review --- I like integrated amps. I don't like integrated amps with DACs or other technologies that are in the process of evolving. For two, three, four and five thousand dollars, I think your money is better spent on a rock solid integrated 2 channel amp with no add-ons. With this in mind, I am looking at a Zen Streamer. At four hundred dollars, it can be replaced in a few year and my rock solid integrated amps remains relevant.
Quite frankly, you guys just shed some MAJOR clarity on the NAD line. Huge thanks.
I agree with commenter Cheeky. Many of us are only vaguely interested in the latest gear of the week that’s reviewed. Why we watch is to see your reaction to it. Today, Andrew, you let it all out, you REALLY told us what you thought. That’s what makes a great video review. You made me care. Thanks. It was great fun watching! And I learned something.
Thank you so much, Dan! We appreciate you watching.
Thanks for keeping it real on the rants. While I don't like the situation, I absolutely appreciate your stance.
I don't need the swoop noise. I can see you zoom in and out, the swoop noise is just annoying. Good points well made. As someone that started in HiFi with a 3020, NAD has a warm place in my memory. A little sad to see them messing around.
Well, there is an audio difference.
The more basic models use Hypex ucd amps
This and the M10 and some other M products use hypex ncore amps
The m33 and c298 use Purifi amp circuits
Measurably Purify > ncore > ucd.
However differences between good amps are small anyway so you would need a super revealing speaker to really appreciate the subtle audible differences.
Great review as NAD is high on my list.
❤️ I wonder if the C298 will sound “different” given its different design or whether it’s just going to be neutral set at 11 🤔?
(Then I’ll buy a streamer like the C658…)
And I don’t mind neutral btw
Thank you for supporting the channel, Alex. I can't speak to the C298's performance as I have not tested it personally, but based on experience with other amps in the line, I would not expect a vastly different sound or experience.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews so after doing more research, the C298 has the same Purifi Eigentakt amp modules as the M33 - which you didn’t like 😂.
Wow, you hit the nail on the head!
Me, as a newbie, was looking through their product line and it is totally confusing!
Like you mentioned, you find product x interesting and further down the row there is product y which may also be interesting and from their on you do not really know why you found product x interesting because you just forgot all the feature it has! It just makes no sense that when you have a list in you head, where you want like HDMI, blue sound and maybe a display you can't really get it except you spend like 5k because in each lower products always one thing of you wanting list has been not implemented.
This review really pushed me even further to the powernode! Thank you !
Sounds like NAD hired a new MBA that told them how to market their line for better profits……Your car sales analogy was spot on. Playing games with features trying to push you up a model. Subscriptions for features could be next. Like paying monthly for heated seats in your BMW. What a mess.
Don't see your point. They have enough models for various budget I don't see anything wrong with that and people forget they provide modules that gives flexibility for the future "I call that progress". Been a HiFi guy for over 50 years I like the progress NAD has made. The world market is diverse and NAD is in many countries the USA is only one player. As I worked in over 20 countries I saw firsthand how diverse HiFi markets can be.NAD is playing the world market People forget that.
I'm a NAD fan, but I completly agree with the rant! Too many models in the lineup these days, w/ small spec variations.
Hi, I enjoy your videos, but with respect I have to disagree. I own a T758 and a Powernode 2i. This week I demo'd the T758 connected to a C298, the C399, and the M33. To my ears the C399 sounded significantly better than T758/C298 combo and the M33 sounded better than the C399.
I was so impressed with the demo that I plan to buy a C399 for music playback. If the M33 did HT bypass, I would have been tempted to buy it as there's a really good deal on it in the UK at the moment. Thanks!
I'm thoroughly enjoying my M32 driving my B&W 804D3s. After adjusting the tone control the 804s really sing, and provides so much joy. Now I borrowed a brand new M33 (even had to do the unpacking) and compared it to the M33. They were so similar in the sound profile. The M33 provided a very slightly more controlled bass, however in some songs I preferred the M32 and others the M33, so I took the M33 back to the dealer and are stille enjoying my M32. The amount of value is immense in the NAD products. However I must admit that the price increase on the M33 is not justified at all. The M32 shipped with a very fair price, even when you factor in the Bluos MDC module.
Always good to hear Kristi’s 2 cents. A second perspective is good. Even if you both agree, there is usually something else to consider after the second review. And when you disagree, its great TV, so to speak. Cheers
Thank you for this, but - and perhaps because i am unfamiliar with online reviews (not to the audio world: I've been in that for 5 decades) - I am not hearing comments about how certain pieces of music actually sound when played thru the component. But then, maybe - for some - the features are more important. I'm primarily interested in how music - classical, jazz and blues - sound on it. It does not seem to be a review of the 399 amp, merely the features of it.
Absolutely loved the rant. NAD is a great company that makes great products, but the constant overlapping feature sets across various lines is absolutely an odd choice. They would do well to pare everything down to 3 simple products, budget, mid, and high end, and disperse feature set/power ratings accordingly.
I sometimes disagree with you guys, but the thing that I absolutely love is that you are not afraid to take the companies to task like Yamaha. Your channel is big enough for them to listen.....you don't get that on TH-cam nowadays. Great job 👍🏽
Agree with you. They need to greatly simplify the line up. Just standardize on purifi amp modules and BluOS. And make Dirac an option on everything. I’m still hoping their random product generator algorithm spits out an M10 minus the screen for like $1600.
Watching the video today on NADs 50 year history prompted me to visit their website to look at the stereo amplifiers. After 5 minutes or so, I felt hopelessly lost. I would have no clue what to buy so I left the website. Interesting how your video raises the concerns that I felt. Regarding the industry in general, I bet 95% of potential audiophiles are driven away by the daunting task of just figuring it all out.
Agreed! I actually spent a lot of time deciding which NAD product to get and had a little analysis paralysis about it. I ended up going with the M10 V2 as I liked the form factor and I wanted Dirac. Very happy with it so far.
I believe by having so many products in their lineup, it keeps the potential customer in a shoppers paralysis - trying to choose which tier to buy into - rather than looking around or even considering options at other brands. Essentially NAD has already made the sale when you’re comparing NAD products against themselves.
Although yes a good bit of rambling, not having kept up with all the corporate machinations over the decades I appreciated the overview of the current NAD and Bluesound and a good overview of the NAD integrated/ Receiver line. An NAD 1300 Preamp drives my system currently. So it was worth the lengthy listen, on a dreary Sunday morning waiting for the Packer Game.
Um, I liked the rants. Especially, since this actually helped clarify the whole NAD/Bluesound line for me, for the first time ever!! AND this whole video kinda become a stoked out value proposition promo for the C 700. “Wait a minute, it’s a Bluesound PowerNode WITH a volume knob AND a screen? Yes, please!!” 😆😁 Really, this vid is THE best thing to happen to NAD marketing.
NAD waking up today: this is NOT the best thing to happen!
😆
Well I appreciate your comment though I doubt NAD will see this video as anything but a negative.
I completely agree with big thing that you’re frustrated with. It makes no sense.
I do like the NAD “sound.” I find to lean neutral which has been my preference. The M10 v2 screen is sexy. It’s one of the reasons I went with it.
Oh, and kudos to Kristi for bringing up the T778. It’s great and is what is powering the Arendal 1961s in my home theater.
wow- what a rant from Andrew! But, he is right about the direction that NAD is taking. NAD is selling the same thing over and over and relabelling it and then doing it again and again. This was not as easy to do when their amps were AB amps. All of those amps, while having a house sound, still maintained their sonic individuality.
I find these sorts of discussions amusing. twenty years ago I went to powered monitors for my daily listening and never looked back. I've been through a series of different monitors, but I find I like Adams, EVENT, and Dynaudio a lot. Rotel pre-amp, SOTA turntable (Rega/Sumiko), NAD CD player, Panasonic tuner for the rare moments I listen to the radio at home. No amp. Simplified my life, one less thing to try and match to my old passive monitors (Hanson Zilberberg). Waste of time and energy.
They have great marketing, that’s what it is! Just like Apple with iPhone, because there’s one little feature that requires a given model when it seems like it’s just a software limitation forcing people to want to upgrade to the next best thing.
At least there are (as of this comment) only 4 iPhones. Two different sized flagships and two different sized "lesser" models which makes the decision (somewhat) easier than what NAD is doing here with their line up of amps.
I ditched my NAD C399 for a Rega integrated. Sounds better anyway.
Vintage NAD, built like tanks and colored like them as well, was *amazing*. The new stuff is...just good?
I have thought of the bluOS aspect. But a lot of folks like me probably have the blusound node as one of first things bought. It is for flexibility. I would love the HDMI but then you have my 368 with bluOS and hdmi and now we are at 2000 bucks. I like it.
- Not everyone will want BluOS, some may not want to stream, and some will want another streamer and DAC, so cool that it’s optional.
- Integrated Dirac is cool!
I would imagine that NAD is having challenges with supply chain issues… that could be affecting the way they make specification decisions.
"are you still here?!" LOL! The Kristi / Andrew exchange was my favorite part! Kristi, I feel you would make a brilliant qualitative researcher! Always relevant way to clarify or follow-up to go deeper into the discussion! Andrew, keep doing what you're doing. Sound authentic and down to earth! Well done guys!
I had a 399, following my negative experience with a Rega Elicit that was very expressive but that edginess got to me and i sold it after 3 months. Now, I did not keep the Nad 399 for long either as it simply did not give me a feeling of living with full bodied sound. Even with volume at full room sound there was no bass that I could feel in my body. I'd never felt so detached from the sound as I was with the NAD, despite its 150 wpc power. The Rega at 105 wpc did very well in this respect. So off to look for a third amp and my local store suggested the new Marantz PM7000n. I was somewhat put off when I heard it was only a 60wpc amp., however hearing it made me sit up and start tapping my foot. It gave me the visceral feeling of engagement and yet was very easy on the ears, unlike the Rega. I'm very happy with the Marantz after 6 months and don't feel the need to look for an alternative. Problem solved.
What speakers are you pairing with your PM7000n ?
@@RobWooten I had bought Focal Aria 936s which have 3 bass units, a midrange and an inverted tweeter. They were well balanced but I never had the feeling that my smallish living area was hearing the best of them. They are very large tower speakers and one reviewer said "they need room to breath". I put the Focals into storage and bought a pair of KEF Q750s. These are smaller and livelier than the Focals and they do quite well with the Marantz amp. I did notice a lack of low bass so bought a 10 inch /25cm Wharfedale sub and that solved the lower bass issue. The system really comes to life with more music that has a lot of dynamics. I will stick with this system until I mange to secure a larger flat and then may resurrect the Focals.
My first ever comment here...
Love your reviews and this is why you are genuinely the only channel I am subscribed to, thank you both!!!
Not only are you informative, honest, neutral and entertaining, you give your watchers something to look forward to and feel part of a community.
You are #morethanjusthifi.
Thank you.
However....
Your chair in the background in this video looks like E.T. after a blow out Christmas Day dinner!
Can't unsee it now 🙈
Agreed... Dirac in the 40n could have been a massive advantage over the 399. Makes one wonder though if the lack of DSP might be a reason you prefer the Marantz, along with the amp topology.
Last time I seriously looked at buying NAD hence looking at their line up in detail was right when they came out with M10 Gen 1. The line up was already long. But I managed to narrow down to C658 pre-amp streamer with BluOS as I already had an amp. But ended up getting separate dac, network bridge and Roon. Just went to check their models while watching this video. There are many even more now!
I have an NAD D 3020, V2, which I use in a second system. It is unbeatable for the price ($400 a few years ago). NAD is the king of the budget integrated amp but as you get closer to $1,000, there are better options. My local dealer wanted to sell me a C 399 for my main system. I ended up getting a Rega Elex-R, which for the same money is better in terms of sound and build quality. Since I listen almost exclusively to vinyl and CDs, I do not need the connectivity options of the C 399.
Hi Andrew,
Great review and as a NAD M10 owner, unfortunately, I agree with conclusion.
Short after I bought the M10 the new Powernode N330 and little later the C700 where released… If I was a few months later in the market for a new amp it saved me a lot of money 😏.
I had a NAD T758v3 before and that had a different, more dynamic and warmer sound. Without Dirac the sound difference between a M10 and N330 is minimal.
Nevertheless, I enjoy the M10 (paired with the new Dynaudio Emit30). Awesome clean design, the screen, huge fan of BluOS and very detailed and relaxed sound for hours of listening pleasure
What NAD is doing will become even more common across all products not just electronics though it does stem from Apple’s ideologies. Similar examples are present in Car Manufacture’s, while you used Porsche the same applies the Mercedes Benz, Toyota, and the VW umbrella as a whole. While it is annoying becoming an educated consumer and knowing what you actually need for the desired outcome is key.
It makes the choice easy. If you like the NAD sound, then pick the amp with the features, power, style that you want and don't fret that a model using a different tech (Hypex Ucd vs. Ncore vs. Purifi) is significantly better.
yeah but the purifi sounds noticeably better then either the ncore or the UCD.
@@Audiorevue The review points out that any sound differences between the models is negligible. Certainly not sufficient to necessitate spending a lot more money over a newer module.
Preference in features, style, and power rating should be the criteria for purchasing.
@@stephenbailey9969 well apparently you've not heard the c298. That is quite literally the first class d amplifier that I've heard that I can actually stand to listening to and enjoy. I don't mean to be overly critical but I've always found class d sort of lifeless sounding, and I know people tend to make generalizations about it and say similar things but that's just what I've heard personally. With the new purifi modules for whatever reason they just sounds brilliant and really bring the music alive in a way that I'm not heard from class d before.
@@Audiorevue I'm simply responding to the review on this channel in which they have heard a number of those amps firsthand. They have said that the differences in sound were negligible. If that is the case, then why spend more for a newer tech when you can get the features you want for less?
Of course, all that depends on whether you like the NAD sound.
I'm happy you found something you like.
@@stephenbailey9969 of course and I appreciate it and I'm not trying to argue with you in any way. But at the end of the day I didn't say that I found something I liked I just said that I had heard the c298 and thought it was brilliant. No man I've got all pass labs stuff so you know I'm kind of on the opposite side of the table
Have you caught wind of all the T778s that have been failing? I bought a T778 after your review. It’s 3 years old and the amp modules have blown. I went online and saw in NAD groups that this is a well known and common problem. When I reach out to them, they told me I’m out of luck and that my $3000 paper weight is out of warranty!! WTH
My first NAD was the M10 v2. I paired it with Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend MK2 and pretty damn happy. I have then added Bluesound Node on my Parasound and GR Research XLR Encore, Bluesound Vault in my office and a few Pulse and flex in smaller rooms. I plan to get a few more. The BlueOS is wonderful. Good review and i get the confusion but it's not that bad.
While you are on the NAD train…. Have you looked at the C658? I would really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for the great reviews!
Keep in mind that for Bluesound in this amp you need the new MDC2 board. The older MDC boards won't work. Cheers!
well said and thanks for pointing this out. only a seasoned pro like you has this kind of context. no need to sugar coat...
Well done as usual Andrew. I always enjoy your vivid and detailed descriptions. I do like the eArc availability and dirac live as well for a starter amp that's affordable. Being neutral makes it more interesting to me. Thank you again. Keep it up.
Wow! You really could not be more wrong about this one. I have a NAD M 33 Purifi Eigentakt Amp. I A-B tested with the NAD C 399 Hypex Hybrid Digital nCore Amp. They clearly do not sound the same. Not even in the same Amp Family. I have two additional systems now with the NAD C298 Purifi Eigentakt Amps, mated to the NAD C 658 Streaming DAC. Three Bluesound, Purifi Eigentakt Amp systems throughout the house on a Sunday Morning is amazing! I highly recommend it.
I'm so happy to hear that you are happy with your purchase.
thanks for this video. it gave people a solid roadmap on how to navigate the NAD lineup.
It seems what you are annoyed of I am truly thankful for. In my eyes, NAD has found the recipe to deliver an amp that can provide what they feel is a clean, accurate, neutral, and balanced sound and they strive to deliver that in every single product they make. As it turns out they can do that for hundreds of dollars, but the thing is they really believe in that sound. So what if it only costs x hundreds of dollars to deliver that sound, if they truly believe it's the best possible amp signature then why would they want it to change just because an amp costs 6000$? They would still want it to sound like what they consider to be the best amp, so they need to find other reasons to charge 6000$ for their flagship.
I'm sure NAD are not faultless in all business strategies and marketing, but I for one truly appreciate that I don't necessarily have to spend flagship money for flagship sound quality alone, as long as I don't need all the power and/or features that come at the top.
The only thing about this hobby that is frustrating to me is the fact that there are so many brands and options, i cant test them all. This channel and others like it are so fun because i can at least get opinions about gear i may not have considered. Thanks again. Another great cup of coffee and another great review
Thanks for tuning in and we hope our videos help narrow down your choices so you're not so overwhelmed.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews the internet can be the best and worst thing to happen to human communication. Content like this is what is good about the internet in general. I think this is what its for. True network of like minded people getting to cut out the salesman/middleman for information. Just thanks
... Andrew, Kristi, I went for the superb Bluesound Powernode 2022 and is delighted. Used the rest of the savings to go on holiday and put a deposit on a brand new car!!! ☺️😂👍🇬🇧 ...
Smart!
NAD gives you the same sound for most of product line. But they have to subtract features to differentiate. I also think they do it to study the buyers. I think the c700 is mind blowing for that price feature sound.
Got a C 162 and C 272. Will probably replace the 162 with a Node. Sound-wise the power amp will drive my speakers and I like that sound.
You hit the nail on the head with a sludge hammer, the utterly confusion now to what to buy is spured by what you just said. I just went through this with amp shopping at a very good shop that offered full cost of an amp if you traded up to 2x the value to get away from this withina year. The lesson I learned is to buy the highest power you can of a brand to bring out your speakers sound to the highest sound. And yes it seems the elusive hdmi port is the bargaining chip.
"Too many things to themselves", so true for many companies, in and out the hifi sector.
Thanks for getting this one. Had all the features I wanted....streaming/DAC/Dirac and HDMI. Thanks for being honest
It has all the features if you pay more for the card FWIW.
The one thing I find with NADs newer class d amplifiers, regardless of which model or how much it costs, is there very particular when it comes to speaker pairing, more so than any other amplifiers I've ever used. Pair them with ELAC and they sound dull, pair them with Klipsch speakers and they sound bright, pair them with q acoustics and they sound muddy. I personally found that they shine with focal as well as mission and also most spectacularly with dali speakers.
Bluesound M smart speaker is revelation in sound stage when using Dali custom made DSP algoritam.
The main thing NAD need to do is look at their distribution and supply chain . Waiting for some of these products in UK/EU is now into the 3rd month with very little feedback from authorised importers /dealers . I think many would be buyers will be going elsewhere as there are many alternatives .They have dulled the edge of the buying experience.
Seems to me modern amps are simply neutral, as they should be, the difference will be: function, power, looks and build quality.
I have suffered from "too many choices," too. The first time was in college when I left a chain drugstore because I couldn't decide from among the vast array of shampoo offerings. I had no idea if I had dry hair, oily hair, etc. So I left.
Retailers typically shouldn't offer more than three or four choices to people otherwise analysis paralysis sets in and people leave to think it over instead of making an immediate purchase. One low end, one high end and one or two middle choices.
Just don't buy the all in one shampoo and conditioner that's often marketed to men.
@@KristiWright I'm sure I bought some of those, Kristi, long, long ago.
Just my guess, I think there is a branding and target audience thing coming into play with the BluSound brand and the NAD brand. I get that they seem to be a bit SKU intensive which I've learned over time can be a problem over time. Too many choices can lead to a lack of decision-making capabilities. Keep up the good work.
For example, I'd consider the BluSound node for my daughters but wouldn't think about a NAD product given their Spotify streaming method of music listening.
That said, I wouldn't do NAD mainly as I am not a fan of Class D amplification and just prefer the Class A/B sound.
It is always a problem with doubled products (of course with minor differences). I kind of understand why they released the C399. Many customers having traditional racks don't want to buy a smaller box with a large color screen. They tend to think it is not a real amplifier then. I guess that is the reasoning... and trust me, i am not a fan of old-fashioned boxes too :)
* Marantz & Denon
* Onkyo & Pioneer
* Bluesound & NAD
* ...
Totally agree with you both on keeping things simple and not complicated when choosing model features and price point thx guys ...
Thanks for watching as always, we appreciate it!
Been an NAD guy forever. And I agree, they have the infrastructure now to do something noone else can do, and they are messing it up.
They could.. Essentially.. Keep to their roots and be vaguely utilitarian, and simply make modular products.
Start with bluesound, then the node, then go up, using the same chassis and you simply buy the features you want to add..
BINGO! Sort of a build your own amp. Pick the chassis and kit it out as needed.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I would do it wouldn't you?
Make it plug and play, like a PC.
The profit margin would be amazing, and since NAD is already a beloved brand, there wouldn't be a gimmicky feel to it, more of a future proofing feel.
so what would be a better alternative around this or lower price point? just looking for good stereo sound and tv, cd's and streaming music. no surround
I hope you're able to review the latest Technics SU-G700.
We have it and that review is coming.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Awesome.
Only recently discovered your channel which has a nice way of reviewing products. Personally I think that it is a compliment to NAD that they all sound the same. As Quad used to state, a good amplifier is like a straight wire with gain. So if you have big sonic differences between amps, at best one of those amplifiers is good and the others aren't. I think NAD has a very interesting line up with innovative technologies. But there is a big BUT. I own a C390DD which failed after a few years. It refused to switch on. It actually had some switching on issues from the beginning where occasionally it would not start. I was able to solve this by replace some capacitors in the standby power supply. Then I noticed that all elcaps they use are from unknown Chinese companies. When doing some google searches it turned out that many users encountered the same issues as I did, with various NAD products. Therefore, I would be very reluctant to buy any NAD product again and certainly the gorgeous M33 which uses also too cheap components. Why don't they use Panasonic or Nichicon elcaps? Their products would become so much more reliable.
And the reason I posted that.. You mentioned buying a $500 node having the same streaming experience as the M33. Yes! But.. The rest of that M33 or M10 or C700 or Powernode or Node into outboard amp, WILL be different. So if anything I think NAD in this streaming BlueOS fully integrated market, simply requires a good and solid research effort for the consumer to make the best choice. I guess the cost of a good many choices, comes responsibility. That said, you provide a significant service in that research I'd like to say.
C399 is the M10 for people that don't want a touchscreen and to use their own streamer. Why is hard for marketing people to say such things? It isn't a downside to the people they should be this marketing to.
The c399 is almost twice as powerful as the m10 aswell making it a much better value amplifier in my opinion
Great review. Let me lend my experience to support your rant and validate Kristi’s recommendation. 4 years ago I was looking to buy into an NAD product. The C338 couldn’t accommodate a BluOS module whereas the C368 could but cost extra. I ended up buying the T758 v3 AV Receiver as it came with the BluOS module and was less expensive than the base C368. Crazy way to plan a product line up……..
Not really when you need power for your speaker to shine which was in my case
your channel is great! Sooner or later you´re gonna hit 300k, well deserved!
I sold my NAD M33 and went Hegel way. Happy owner of H590
Good morning from the Midwest. I love the new chair in the space, especially with those Cornwall's!
Thanks. Once we saw the new finish options Herman Miller just released we knew it was the perfect chair for our new home.
I completely agree with your comments about NAD. I have all but given up with the brand - apart from Bluesound. The Powernode has been a very enjoyable purchase and seems to be lacking very little for my needs.
Love the Powernode and Node!
At under $1000 the Powernode does EVERYTHING the M33 does minus three features; more power, phono preamp and DIRAC. THAT'S IT! Seeing as how you could argue that DIRAC is either a $600 or a $99 upgrade (it is software after all) I don't see the point in paying through the nose to get it with one of NAD's costlier products. Second, with the introduction of the Blusound receiver deal you can now add more analog and phono inputs to your Bluesound setup and for less than $400 (I think). I mean, c'mon. Thanks for watching!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I think if you use Roon you can add DSP even if it’s not Dirac.
For those curious, you can check out the Powernode here amzn.to/3hloPW8 and bit.ly/3jPxG40.
Nad make good products, c368, c388, c338 and so on...only one big problem with all these products, we don't know where to go, I have the c368, a very good amp for its price but...it took me 2 months to decide, they look too much a like...But I am very happy with my c368, it powers the beautiful sonus faber lumina 2, I really like this combo...
Ps: you have to like the nad "sound", it's a pretty neutral sound, not too much bass the highs are not too crunchy nor too absent they are as it should be.
But apart from their overly complicated catalogue, NAD remains a very good brand
I like the Purifi modules on higher end NADs, but will admit they somnd very similar
They all do. There is a difference in tone perhaps between classes but within classes you get more similarities than differences (so long as you exclude the potential for coloration from the preamp).
@@andrewrobinsonreviews well articulated dear sir
I am an NAD fan yet I also agree that they have too many products and a confusing line up.
I've been a huge NAD fan since the 80s and still run an old 2400PE. I just haven't jumped in the class D pond. One day maybe. Until I absolutely have to have a new feature on my 2.1 system, I'll stick with it
NAD BEE separates was the pinnacle of NAD and the only NAD amps I would consider.
The BEE stuff from the late 90s early 2000s was amazing.
well apparently they still make the c165 and the c275. get them while you can boys cuz with NAD the gravy trains about over
And for those who may want switchable A&B speakers ......the C399 does NOT have the 2 sets selectable or switchable which is not something any reviewer seems to tell you .
I have a minidsp shd with Dirac for all frequencies and here is my opinion. It really ruins the top end if you bring the curtain up the whole way for adjustment. I instead only use Dirac for frequencies below 250hz. This has been the case in both rooms I have used the MiniDSP SHD in. So you may be happy with the bass only Dirac NAD has built in.
I never use room EQ (or mini DSP) for midrange or treble correction, only for bass so I don't mind the "lesser" version of DIRAC here.
How far apart do you place your speakers? They look somewhat the same as mine.
Thats why i preffer Cambridge audio
I don’t have a problem with all the models. It’s kind of like modern BMW.
I do have issue with them having BluOs and Dirac as add ons. I think they’d own the market if they could include it, and spread those costs out over every unit.
But my number one issue with NAD is the plastic buttons and faceplate. Just junk. I’ve had an M10, C658 and C700. The build quality of the non-masters stuff is 1995 Pontiac vibes.