What WEAPON IS BEST to DEFEAT CHAINMAIL?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024
- We're going to have to test a lot of weapons, but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make!
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#functionalfandom #armor #medieval #chainmail #mail #sword #swords
Mail is so labour intensive to make and it was put to the test in battle for over a thousand years from Spain to Japan, there's just no way it wouldn't perform amazingly. If it didn't it never would spread so far and lasted so long.
I mean cuts doing basically nothing to you would be advantage enough to see pretty good use.
The raw resistance against most piercing was higher than I thought though. It may have been somewhat wide, but that spear truly did borderline jack shit.
Almost makes you wonder how people managed to die with this stuff on before there was "counterplay" developed.
@@1stCallipostle Easy, you hit them in the head.
Or cut their legs. (Why the Scutum was invented)
@@1stCallipostle i mean, just because the mail held up, doesn't mean people would. a good solid whack will still knock someone on their ass and open them up to finishers.
@@hia5235Scutum was invented as a shield no different than any other shield. Greaves and helmets stop head and leg blows being fatal as much
Chainmail is so good that it's even worn in the modern day by divers as a kind of shark proof diving suit
Shadiversity is becoming like a medieval myth busters and I’m all for it.
They just need to start slashing and stabbing harder than my dead grandmas and then we might really know which weapon will be best
So you are multiple people?
@@iLoveBigKnockers all as in whole like the whole him
@@Lord_Marquaad Yeah, so it's multiple people.
Between the Indiana Jones episode and this one's thumbnail literally imitating Adam's new channel, yeah.
Boromir deserves a viking funeral when his time comes, hes earned it.
It'd be a pretty cool episode idea to perform a historical Viking funeral!
What?! He obviously needs to be sent in a small rowboat down a river through a waterfall!
(I mean I'm joking but then again, can you imagine the smoke that foam would create if burned? xdd)
I suspect they'll need resperators when/if they do. The material he's made out of is rather noxious when burnt.
Or, alternatively, burial mound.
OH GOD YES THEY NEED TO DO THIS
You three are gelling together, much more confident, funny and expressive. The topics and production is top notch and getting better every video. You guys are like the pointy slashy version of the original top gear trio. The banter and fun is great. My favourite channel. Keep it up guys
@@rjohnm666 agreed 👍
I can see it
Chainmail: Pretty effective overall, very good general defense for those who can afford it.
Dnd: Best I can give you is a 16
To be fair, armor made of literal magic is only 13. (Yeah it can get modifiers but shut up)
Also D&D, gambeson (padded as it's listed in 5E) gives disadvantage on stealth. Leather armour does not. The way D&D handles armour is pretty rubbish. One of the reasons I threw out leather for brigandine and removed the disadvantage from padded.
Homebrew is de whey
I mean they give plate armor which covers every part of your body with metal a 18, so it's not far off the scale.
Is it though? Sure you might not bleed out and die from external wounds, but every bone in your arms and torso is broken with blunt force trauma and you will probably die from internal bleeding.
Its like saying a kind of modern body armor can take a shot from a 30.06 or more. Sure it might not technically "defeat" the armor, but the dude wearing it still has his innards turned to jello
I am very surprised how durable it is against weapons that are designed for piercing and stabbing
I mean if it did nothing they wouldn’t have used it
yeah, and stabby things stick in there, your chances are already slim fighting 2 mail weaing guys, but that isn't helping lol
i'm kinda miffed the goedendag wasn't tested
i'd imagine that would be the king of chainmail killers (against a single enemy for aforementioned reasons, retrieval is a bit of a faff)
cheap and trivial to make, and came in various sizes, cobbling together a goedendag that pokes nicely in the holes between would be pretty doable on a larger scale by unskilled workers and cheap and easy to source materials, i could feasibly make one, and i'm not a blacksmith and can't make weapons for shit
got a little bit more range, and far more purchase with your handpalms on the stick end, than your tines and daggers, you could probably jab the pointy bastard in like 15 centimeters if you make em the right diameter and keep the pointy end nice and skinny (and not too brittle obviously), the extra purchase is probably pretty nice for overcoming ribcages or cartilage on (in) your subject.
i guess there would even be options in that where you can opt for 3 or 4-sided flats on the blade rather than cylindrical if you're specifically are trying to break the links by focusing the outward exertion forces on the chain links too, but i think there's no need for it whatsoever with a full bypass on a sharp spike and just opt for a longer skinnier blade instead, but if you have some purchase in terms of mass because you want a longer stick for range/manouvrability, you may still stretch or distort the links a bit and get that extra bit of oomph on the back end of the blade AFTER the sharp tip has already bypassed the chain, and well penetrated
but why would you? attempting to attack the chain with outward force only makes it harder to retrieve the bitch again as it jams in between, a full bypass would be the most intelligent choice, so fuck tapering off too wide, a mostly straight blade would be the best with retrieval in mind
if you want to destory the chains, you gotta play with more bulky weird sharp shapes on the end that can focus the exertion to 1 point better and can also do twisting/torsion types of forces as they get stuck in there with their bulk after the initial impact, that try and bend and fold the links and make the links themselves exert force on their neighbours, using the old crank and lever to use their lack of elasticity against them, at some point it's either bend, or break.
but i don't see the point if you can just bypass the bitch all the way :D
als, on "bend or break", in my native language (Dutch) you also have a saying that goes "buigen of barsten" (bend or burst),
which mean: "you have to make a concession here or the entire agreement is off or operation is in jeopardy", essentially "take it or leave it" in making agreemenst, but also "you gotta bite the bulllet" in things you're already involved/vested in
but can also be used to say you have to adapt to changes and get with the times or find yourself out of touch, broken or confused
i think a custom goedendag would be the utmost best killer against a single fighter with chainmail in efficacy, affordability and attainabiliy/replacebility
@@klontjespap the goedendag is a great pick for trying to get through chainmail actually. Such an under-rated weapon.
What they really need is an estoc and a stiletto.
The key is that you need something very narrow and stiff. Wedge it open. If it flexes it's not gonna work. IMO a hole in this video is the lack of half-swording, put some gloves on and grab the blade halfway up with your other hand to stop it from flexing. Particularly the sword at 16:00, I suspect it'd pierce more consistently that way.
The addition of Nate, Tyranth and Kramer has been ABSOLUTELY AWESOME for the channel. I LOVE ALL of the new videos.
For the longest time I didn't get how to spell that Tyr... Tyrell.. Tyren..?
Great video as always
@@ilari90 a tyrant, but with some flair.
Agreed, it may not be as super professional looking yet or what, maybe just my subjective opinion, but three people has a better dynamic and is frankly more interesting than one guy, even when it is Shad, talking for 30min.
Agreed. And not to forget Nathan who's clearly a backbone of the whole thing in terms of off-screen work. :) (Presume he does a lot of the camera work and editing).
Things I have learned from Shadiversity:
Medieval swords are lighter than you think.
Stick beats nunchuck.
If accosted by assailants wearing chainmail, grab the grill fork.
I think a foil would be a good weapon for that, you can still roast hot dogs on it as well!
if wearing chain mail, do not put your back against obstacles.
or a big hammer or heavy weapon basically blunt force damage one you break leg bone or something its over
The most dangerous thing that comes to my mind in the Shadlands: Emus. The war was pretty devastating for those that lived through it. 😂
Now, hear me out, Emu's in Chainmaille. Actually, that kinda sounds like a grunge band.
Man. Chainmail won't do. You need real tanks for that.
emus are at least armoured cars by themselves, the can take multiple lewis machine gun eounds
Cassowaries enter the chat ....
@@scottw2317naw man. Never forget the Emu wars. Lol
As someone who has seen some of their favourite channels and programs completely losing their appeal and original charm upon change or addition of hosts, you can't imagine how chuffed to bits I am to see how Nate, Tyranth and Kramer have become indispensable parts of the channel now. Like, speaking genuinely, they are HILARIOUS and an absolute pleasure to watch. The chemistry is a treat, and the quality is ever improving. The fact that TH-cam hasn't been showing the love I know you deserve makes me royally pissed.
I miss seeing and hearing more of Shad in each video - don't get me wrong; I am still more than happy with all the videos - but I guess we do have the livestreams from time to time. I hope from the bottom of my heart that the quality doesn't make the economy implode. Love you all!
I agree, this channel has gotten even better with the additional hosts! And their ability to perform real-world testing on our beloved topic of weapons and armor makes it so much fun. Shad does try to appear in as many videos as he can, with this new content it does mean fewer talking-heavy videos but Shad does still lead those when they appear. Also Shad's health is what pushed him to hire additional hosts because he wouldn't be able to do all of this testing himself.
if this was a movie or a tv show, the first hit of the dullest blade would have gone through the chain mail, gamberson and body on both sides in a single light tap.
*Looks at Night king stabbing Theon through his armor with a stick*
That's because you need to wear plot armor 😉
Wouldn't even need to thrust, they'd go halfway through the torso with a cut. Unless it was a katana, then Boromir would have been sliced in half.
@@lordofthepizzapie9319 Don't underestimate the stick. Many a great man has died to the machinations of the stick. Some people even think the stick is what actually killed JFK.
Movies are TV shows are dumb enough to deserve having such a scene included.
This was the just the right amount of roleplay in my oppinion, it made for a decent segway into the tests but didn't distract from them or as if like you were trying to hard.
I think you nailed that feeling of "a couple of friends from our world, exploring a fantasy one for fun."
Like a genuine VR world, or that you found a magic wardrobe or a secret tunnel. (P.S kinda like epic NPC man I guess.)
And I am 100% HERE FOR IT!
Also I liked the joke at the very end too. Absoubtly brilliant work you guys, dare I say Fantastic!
Lately, these new videos have been absolutely incredible!
Honestly, I didn't at first like the addition of Nate and Tyranth, It felt odd and unusual. But over time I've since changed my opinion with a full 180. Nates enthusiasm and positive personality smoothens out any potential social rough edges. Tyranth with his colder humour, realistic view aswell as straight up knowledge makes a good counterweight to Shads idealistic side. This feels like a really solid team that can only grow better and better. The passion you three have really does show. Thank you for the amazing content!
Gosh, Boromir is tanking the punishment like a champ!
I allmost feel sorry for boromir.😆
They need to get Sean Bean to guest star for one of these. lol
@@wolfleclair1399 He'd have to die though, cos that's what Sean Bean does best! 😁
Ouch he's lucky he's got no bones even though he wasn't cut to pieces his bones would be much if he has any
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878 I'd rather have a couple broken ribs than a gaping cut bleeding heavily and subject to all kind of infections.
I semi-recently re-watched Shad's video on hidden wrist blades and came to the conclusion that a handful of cheap (potentially disposable) prickers would be better than a wrist blade. This video confirms that it would work against maile, so I think I like that idea for an assassin.
Prickers come in handy when frolicking.
This makes one more reason for the rogue to go after the silverware.
Stiletto or fine poinard
Last six months you guys have just kicked your content up to the stratosphere. Keep it up guys!
Ben, one of my childhood best friends; his father was a bowyer. He had this arrowhead that was obelisk shaped. The arrowhead was square and wide at the bottom, and as it got to the tip it narrowed to a point. It was pretty heavy for what you would expect from a simple arrowhead. It was for breaking through chainmail.
Probably a bodkin head of some kind.
just wanna say really love this new series and the way the channel is going. The old style/videos are great too but these pratical videos are awesome
I'm impressed with the chainmail and the thoroughness of this video.
To answer the title question: One of those big magnets they use on cranes at a scrap yard. (Also good for plate mail.)
Until you run into the guy with chain mail made of aluminum pop tabs.
Shad, though I always loved your content, from the time you were wearing blazer and a superman shirt to the "I can't do this on my own anymore" video. But I have to admit that you with the help of the guys created something awsome. I love this new content. How you act the intros and outros, the whole testing and so on.
You can see that there is a well thought of concept behind every video uploaded here.
It's all very well done and the chemistry is just perfect ❤
Blunt trauma seems to be the most effective way, with piercing second as that focuses a lot of energy on a small area, even if the armor holds, the bone underneath might break.
Overall i would say chain mail is impressive good armor. And RELATIVELY cost effective. Though certainly not cheap.
Blunt force tends to win out in most cases. Even if you don't penetrate the armor, you're still at minimum knocking the wind out of them, knocking them down, dislocating a limb, or giving them a concussion, at maximum you've just caved someone's skull or ribcage in.
Piercing's overrated. Hammers and maces are where it's at.
It's only when you get to metal vehicle hulls that blunt force starts losing its effectiveness at human capacities.
Listen to my great idea i invented a weapon so versatile it deals with any type of armor. Its called a poleaxe can slash, crush and stab. Isn't it wonderful?
@Dingus_Khaan you are overestimating blunt force trauma, or rather the ability to apply it with handweapons against an opponent with armour, even flexible armour with padding.
Firstly the vast majority of blunt force trauma found on even early mediviel battlefield dead is in the head and neck region. Torso blunt force trauma injuries are almost not existant, and almost exclusively the shoulder area.
Also note bladed wounds are more common than blunt force trauma wounds (and wounds on the back are more common than wounds on the front, for all wound types).
The primary sources also claim that even basic armours of peasants were effective against blunt force trauma (obviously not useing those exact words) except for blows to the heads (and to a lesser extent arms and legs).
And lastly we see blunt force weapons remained the minority. Most weapons were either purely cut and thrust, or cut thrust and blunt force. Pure blunt force remained the exception and thus could not have been the best option (especially since they were relatively cheap to make).
out of the gate i was all about finding a stabbing/piercing weapon that could bypass them, and my opinion hasn't cahnged one bit
therefor i think the goedendag would be a good piercing weapon that is trivial to produce and the extra weight and purchase on the longer stick worked wit the hand palms probably can help overcome ribcages/cartilage on (in) your subjects as well as bring some extra range
it's basically a dagger/spear hybrid, and you can play with the lengths a bit to get what you like
but my version would still be a side weapon for the execution, not the main gig to defend yourself or find a way to get into your position where you can stab them, so it wouldn't be too polearm-like
preferably something with not to much wide tapering toward the sick, but long and reasonably even profile beyond the sharp tip, if you dont'even attempt to exert outward force on the links to rty and break them, but rather go all in on getting in the spaces between with a long not too brittle blade, i have no doubt you could jab that bitch in 10-15 centimeters quite easily, it won't get stuck as hard in the mail so probably helps retrieving the bastard a tad easier too
i haven't seen a goedendag in the tests, but there's way more purchase on one of those than tines or some smaller dagger, so i will keep believing it's the best in 1v1 fights against chainmail, cheap and trivial to make by unskilled workers, and it's probably a lot less often deflected because of its mass and purchasewhen you do decide to handpalm that bitch in
the halberd was way more versatile though in crowd control in case there are more things to deal with, but in groups you may want to consider ballistics and other position tactics to split them up rout them or pick them off as an opener lol
@@matthiuskoenig3378On the other hand, there's a reason poleaxes had some sort of mashy bit so often, including mashy bits about as flat as a meat tenderizer. I suspect that was specifically for keeping somone on the ground while you're looking for an opportunity to spike 'em. Even if it doesn't bruise or anything it's still just a lot of force coming down on someone with a big lever like that.
Awesome vid. Also, gotta say, the way this channel has evolved thanks to the addition of Nate & Tyrant (+ the collabs with Kramer) is great - Shad himself also seems a lot more engaged and fun.
It's important for an adventurer to remember their Three F's
* Feasting
* Fighting
* Frolicking
If an adventurer isn't prepared and balanced in their Three F's, then they may get royally frolicked
Don't forget forks, apparently.
Forking and frolicking go hand in hand. lol
Not a fist was thrown no Fisting
Wow, a medieval fork might actually be lethal through armor!
I expected that. Chainmail is a great thing but there is a lot of air in it. A narrow, pointy piece of metal is an ideal thing to go through the gaps.
If mail was of denser weave, as usual in most periods, it most probably would't work so great.
No idea about usual dimensions of medieval forks, but if fork is roughly 4 mm to 4mm squarish crossection like mine, it would somehow readily fit inside one 5mm ID ring (very common) except that there would be also 4 other rings inside that one, putting resistance.
The knights had to take care, defend, deal justice, be noble, go to war, do the math and make new contacts.
The subjects had to make food and more men and obey, also build walls and things, make weapons, and obey. So society could grow and not everything falls to depravity.
But when the nobles were not adequate for the job or cruel and dumb and this lead to avoidable BS too often....well, an angry mob is an angry mob, and a farmer needs tools and an artisan does too. Not even plate armor can help you when they gather in the night and bring the torches, only god...
But don't tell the peasants :)
Great video as always guys, You are all 3 getting much better at the banter and content. Seems like it is flowing much better and easier. The Camera work and quality is going up as well. Just all around we can all tell the quality is going to the moon. Keep up the awesome work, and much love from my family to yours. Can not wait for the next one to come. Would love to see you guys do test with makeshift type weapons, such as the old ball bat with nails, or tire iron, or anything along those veins to see how they stack up to dedicated purpose built ones.
the production value has improved so much, it just feels like a legit noughties TV production (with better video quality) with all the b-roll transitions/montages, and the extra presenters and camera angles, very fancy stuff.
shad is a man of many talents, he sure as shit knows how to source good people, because the new guys are great too,
and i've seen plenty a comment of sceptics that have been convinced by their charm/chemistry, as it does not seem to come at the cost of coherence, if anything it allows for more thorough experiments and tests :D
you made a bet with yourself and your channel, and you were on the right end of it, well deserved for taking the risk.
now part of that was also necessity, so hope your health is doing ok Shad
thanks for all the content, and congratulations with the successes, i bet there are still plenty to come in the future, i love how you have become a regular addition to FNT too, if we ever get out of this shit heap of and it's all said and done (well, commies come back every 40-50, and have to be taught a lesson every time over and over and over again, it''s just how it is), you will be known as one of the pioneers of the iron age of entertainment, together with gary and all the rest of the guys, great stuff :D
18:26 turn it around. Shimmy it up (or just aim for the dirty belows). There's loads of unused surface. Shoot, you got whole sleeves, too! No one has taken a poke to the arm with chainmail?
Loving the content you guys put out, you've become a favorite show
I love the opening skits, they're great. This one gave me inspiration for an adventure idea I'd not previously thought of, a crypt with a camp of goblin "archaeologists" at the entrance who are slowly trying to make their way through the ruins.
The results really aren't that surprising, given how expensive maille was to make there's no way that it would have been used for close to _two thousand years_ if it wasn't good. As others have noted, it never _has_ died out completely, there's still nothing that beats maille in certain niche applications.
The last sword and the bec de corbin were definitely far more effective, though _some_ of that is due to the armour being weakened by some of the more effective weapons from the first round since you were striking at the same areas throughout the whole test. Being able to chew through the armour by striking the same spot over and over is a bit less applicable in a fight.
It's a shame you guys don't have a proper Estoc, see just how much better they are than other swords against maille. Or a rapier, which weren't _designed_ for it but it would be interesting to see anyway.
And when testing the butted maille, I think that using the bec de corbin was a total waste, it was _already_ penetrating as far as it can go through the riveted maille, it would have been better to test some of the _less_ effective weapons; I mean what are you showing there? That weapons that can penetrate armour can penetrate the weaker armour too? That doesn't show it to be weaker. The gladius made a much better test for that.
Holy Crap, new intro is pretty damn good.
Great video! However, Throughout this entire video I have been wondering how something like a rapier or small sword would have done against the mail. I have really been enjoying the content of this channel recently, keep up the great work!
Likely similar to the arrows that penetrated.
I've loved the new content style lately! You guys are doing a great job!!
Ive subbed for years and gotta say lately your channel has gotten much more fun to watch. I get a little exited to see ur videos like this.
24:31 I think this shows why we find a few butted links on some historical pieces, the difference in protection against a slash or larger tip is less noticeable, and things designed to penetrate mail well already do great even with rivets. I think a few links replaced here or there with butted ones on campaign probably would work until you could get to a smith to actually repair your armor. That being said the tine really shows why you dont want a whole suit of butted mail, rivets are stronger and anything on the fence of defeating or bypassing riveted mail absolutely destroys butted mail.
Tyranth's face when he was told no food had been prepared was priceless 😂
I would love to see more armor reviews and where to buy quality armor also I’d love to see you review the windlass classic medevil sword it’s budget friendly I love holding it in all the wrong ways you gotta feel it I feel like I could cleave through anything with it lol
I think I remember hearing that the thicker war arrows weren't necessarily made for piercing armor, they would just cause so much force to be transferred that the recipient would have serious bruising and internal injuries or concussions with head shots. Perhaps the armors of the renaissance were just so well made that nothing short of a gun could pierce them, but a spray of arrows hitting like a shotgun blast could still harm the heavily armoured knights.
Edit: also that hammerhead on the bec de corbin would still be highly effective at breaking ribs and causing concussions and internal bleeding. It might not have the mass of the axe but the extra velocity at the tip due to it being a pole weapon could make up for that.
Or, as was seen on a different channel, bent the armor enough that you might lose the ability to move an arm or leg, effectivly taking you out of battle.
They just shot the horse. You can't armor them enough.
its so nice to see this channel getting better and better.
I know it's fantasy, but I remember in the Fellowship of the Ring movie, Frodo got shanked by a troll (with a spear point on a broken shaft) though we was wearing a Mithril maille (or chainmail) shirt. While it lived up to its reputation that "no blade can pierce it" (Thorin said it in the Hobbit 3 movie, and is well known to be an impenetrable material in Middle Earth), the physical trauma still caused Frodo to groan in pain and seemed to knocked the wind out of him due to the troll's massive force of impact on a small surface (a hobbit's chest).
To medieval arms and armor enthusiasts and fantasy afficionados, let me know what you guys think..😊😊😊
As I recall, Frodo was wearing that beneath any clothing with no padding underneath to absorb any trauma. So even if the Mithril itself held up, it's shoving a ton of force on a very small area and Frodo was pinned back against a wall. The mithril is unyielding, the wall is solid stone, but there's a little fleshy being between those two things. He'd have had crushed organs and broken bones. He should have been wearing some kind of padding between the armor and his skin.
In the books it was a spear thrown by an orc... Much more believable.
In the books, the maille was still mithril and still impenetrable. However, there were no Trolls fought in Moria. It was an orc that stabbed Frodo, and it still knocked him unconscious with blunt force trauma alone.
In terms of how armor would work, pretty accurate, though if it was a troll and especially if Frodo was pinned, like in the movie, he would be dead, crushed between the weapon and the wall.
That troll looked real heavy and strong and very fine mail does little to spread the force of impact (that's why you wear a gambeson) so my guess is hobbit shish kebab. The mail would just wrap itself around the spearhead and pierce poor Frodo.
I really appreciate the detail and preparation for these videos.
From a layman's perspective, I would guess a Halberd or Dolabra would work well against chainmail. If not trying to get through it, something blunt with mass would also work, perhaps a mallet (hard to travel with, of course) or war pick.
Going to finish the video to see if I am in the ballpark.
I think a cannon, pistols, bombs and so on should also work pretty effectively
Reject normal weaponry, embrace wooden club.
The Mallet is for when you see a nice Hauberk that you want but don't want to damage it while making the acquisition.
Flanged mace is great for chainmail
@@Brute_StudiosSTIC GUD
Fantastic channel! You guys must have had so much fun making this!
The katana split space and time and sliced past the mail. Plot twist: nunchucks are the best vs chainmail.
Anyway back to reality that axe beak was brutal
It almost appears that arrows tearing through chain main isn’t necessarily accurate unless it is a bodkin arrow.
True, but a bodkin point on a heavy war-bow or crossbow still does a pretty good job of making it through.
Was proved historicaly in crusades period. European crusaders armoured with heavy riveted chainmail were quite resistant to eastern bows.
Don't forget knights also wearing gambeson underarmor, and there were reports from Saladin about knights with up to ten arrows stuck in the chainmail and that knights feeling well
@@Stop_GooningEh......not really. Todd from Todd's workshop talked about this.
You should do the same test using a Scalemail. It would be really interesting.
That's a bit harder to find
Lamellar mate lamellar it was the entirety of asias favorite for several reasons
Not just asia, eastern europe too
Brigindine armor is good to have also.
Nothing beats plot armor.
I vaguely remember something about square bladed arrowheads designed to punch out chainmail links, that may be interesting!! Very fun video, as have all the videos lately been!
I'd just like to say, Nate's throwing knives were in conclusive since they hit flat rather than point first, but to be fair even the most experienced knife throwers will struggle to get them on point every single time. I'd say that needs revisiting until we get some solid point hits on the mail, to see if there's even the faintest hope to get them through.
It's one of the best videos you've ever made. I love the quality upgrade since Tyrant and Nate came.
The aussie sense of humour is incalculably strong with the Shadknights.
I've only been watching Shadiversity for a couple of months, and when I heard about his health condition it makes me happy to see that he can still enjoy himself. Awesome channel, great videos, you guys keep it up.
Shad’s genuine joy swinging the blade at the end is why I watch this.
There's a lot of passion in these new videos. I'm glad to see it
amazing series
These are some great videos you guys are making and Im so happy to see the three of you having a ball
Hammers and maces should be quite effective vs chainmail because they don't bother to penetrate the armor, they just impart brutal kinetic force to break bones.
They still have to deal with the mail and padding, the former helps distrubtr the force alittle.
Primary sources claim mail was actualy quite effective against Maces, which were actually ment to be used against heads and necks.
@@matthiuskoenig3378Once again, very few references to substantial padding under mail, the vast majority of depictions and descriptions of what was worn under being plain tunics.
The best weapon to deafeat chainmail is an AGM40. An elegant weapon for most situations.
But seriously most of the weapons were effective. While they didn't penetrate, the blunt force would have pulped they guy inside. Beat a guy in chain mail with a club, you get free chainmail.
i just need to mention how well shad wears medieval outfits, and his armor that he occasionally wears just looks phenomenal on him.
shad was built and born for medieval ages
The more interesting thing to note about this test is that the chainmail shown here is weaker than actual historical chainmail. The construction method used flattens the ends of the rings VERY thin. This is the weak point where the metal will always break. The flat part are then drilled through making another weak point on the weak point and then pinned. Historical chainmaile would flatten the entire ring but not by much. A slot was punched, not drilled, through the ends. This was called "drifting". This separated the metal rather than cutting it leaving a lot of material behind. A V shaped metal rivet was then placed in the punched slot and then squeezed into place. The rivet would flatten on both sides while filling in the slot completely. This made the area much more stronger than the riveted stuff coming out of India and China today.
Punching was pretty much distinct from "drifting" as well. AFAIU Punching all the way trough indeed, removed more material and weakened the structure, while punching tiny hole and then gently pushing the material aside with a drift created way stronger riveting. Of course it was also even more time consuming.
Another weak point of Indian mail is the ugly way in which overlap is done, particularly the glaring space between the laps. Not tight at all, and again, in stark contrast with most of actual stuff from all times and period.
Incidentally it also created the trope/meme that mail was brutal on hair and beard, catching it a lot, while historical mail doesn't seem to do it a lot.
Other than that. there's plenty of heavily flattened historical mail though, so it's not necessarily completely a -historical feature.
Obviosuly, the main catch is that most of heavily flattened rings were flattened from wire WAY thicker initially, so fiinal result wasn't such comically pliable "can tab" ring.
But really, construction details aside, most of historical mail was simply of way tighter or heavier weave, usually both. It makes all the difference in the world, really.
With 9mm internal diameter, like that of most commercial mail, historical mail would usually have chunky rings, like 1.6mm at minimum, often up to 2.5 or something like that!
This mail seems to be something like heavily flattened 17 gauge, or something, usual stuff.
Historical mail from such thin wire would usually have rings of 6mm ID, and down, often as low as 3.5 mm.
The advantage of such a loose weave will be obviously armor being lightweight, at the cost of protection.
It's kind of wasted on those mail shirts though, as they are usually very baggy, so weight quite a lot despite light construction.
Comparing this mail to something, like, say, Roman mail from Piquia, which was composed out of rings 4.7 to 6.1 mm ID, and wire 0.85mm to 1.7mm thick, and 1.8mm wide is like comparing plate armor that's 1mm thick to the one that's 3mm thick.
The lighter stuff can actually have superior riveting and of superior craftsmanship, while heavier one is shoddy, and the heavier one will be still way more protective, it's simple physics.
@@lscibor To be fair, the majority of medieval mail was that the majority of the rings are punched rather than riveted. Only the 5th binding ring had to be riveted since the others were solid.
The really thin stuff was speculated to have been worn thin as a lot of the edges near the rivets are very smooth.
@@brainplay8060 Pretty much all 4 in 1 mail (so probably like 99.5% of mail in general) was exactly 50% solid and 50% riveted rings. You cannot make if any other way, every single link has to connect to 4 others
Row of riveted, followed by row of solid. Different orientations are rare
And solid rings were usually punched, and usually somehow flattened compared toriveted, but not always.
I am really surprised at how well chain mail performs against all weapons, assuming it is correctly made with riveted links. Even the butted chain mail did pretty well at protecting its wearer. It really was good protection and I can see why it was used for thousands of years. It does seem to perform best when worn over a gambeson of some kind. Even the ancient Romans wore a type of gambeson under their mail called a subermalis.
And it doesn't seem like they've provided info about the mail, but it seems to be fairly standard Indian mail, which is of rather light weave and not very historically correct.
Roman mail like ones found in Piquia with 1.7-1.8 mm thick wire but just 4.7 to 6mm od ID diamater would likely be many times tougher, it wouldn't let arrows trough nearly as easily.
As far as gambesons go, though, it's actually likely that it wasn't used all so often, in earlier period at least.
Subarmalis appears in few sources, and no source actually seems to suggest that it was kind of gambeson, or anything made to resits weapons, really. Just something worn under armor.
"De Rebus Bellicis " (4th- 5th century AD) mentions thoromachus:
"The ancients, among the many things which... they devised for use in war, prescribed also the thoracomachus to counteract the weight and friction of armour... This type of garment is made of thick sheep's wool felt to the measure... of the upper part of the human frame...in case the weight of the thoracomachus should be increased when it is sodden with rain and should therefore hamper the wearer it will certainly be advisable to wear on top of it a similar garment made of well-prepared Libyan fleeces to the cut of the thorachomachus".
Thick sheep wool wcould definitely count as padding, even if the source describes it just as for comfort.
Another problem is that this book apparently describes some ideas and theories how to improve the military, with ideas being supported by popular "Ancients did it" rather than actually describing reality. As evident by phrases like "it would be advisable".
@@lscibor I've wondered what size real Roman maille was. The reproduction stuff is a let down for protection because of the 1mm wire which has a weak point at where it is flattened to allow the overlaps to be punched through and riveted.
@@stuartclarke3171 Roman mail was generally under 5mm of internal diameter, as seen in pieces from Arbeia, Calingwark Loch, Piqua, Saalburg, and others.
Lots of mail with ID less than 4mm, like from Fluitenberg,
Very similarly as with mail from 16th century, really.
Definitely not something reconstructed a lot today, terrific amount of work needed.
@@lsciborI doubt the “padding” provided by a subaramalis or any later padded garment meant to be worn under mail would have been substantial enough to do anything but improve the fit/prevent chafing. Pictorial and physical evidence seems to point to them being quite thin. And as you mentioned, these didn’t see much use until the late 13th century, with the few mentions before this date being a drop in a bucket full of references to plain tunics under mail.
@@spades9681 Well, yeah, generally I agree, that's what I posted, essentially.
However, not much after fall of Western Empire we do have pretty clear mention of some cloth garments of protective value, not just value of improving fit and comfort.
Anonymous Byzantine work from 6th century mentions:
“There should also be a space between the armor and the body. It should not be worn directly over ordinary clothing, as some do to keep down the weight of the armor, but over a garment at least a finger thick. There are two reasons for this. Where it touches the body the hard metal may not chafe but may fit and lie comfortably upon the body. In addition, it helps to prevent the enemy missiles from hitting the flesh"
Something that's finger thick will most certainly have significant dampening effect spreading the impulse, so it likely counts as "padding".
simply wow, extremely impressive. no wonder most cultures used mail throughout hundreds of years even in early modern era. the mail like a proper underdog gave everyone a well deserved middle finger. the only weapons could do anything were slender thin enforced beaks like bec de corbin. he would definetly got some bruses, but even the bec the corbin may not reach skin because of the thick padded clothing underneath. its a great statement against the idea that you need plate to be well protected.
Fork as a tip of an arrow...
Have yet to watch the video. But I remember there being a documentary with examples that said the best weapons to use against chainmail is anything with a lot of thrusting/piercing power behind it like a Spear on horseback or a crossbow bolt, but a good sword thrust can still break the rings if done correctly.
(Edited) Went as expected. Though using the Fork in the back would be a good way to assassinate someone if you hit the kings first to keep them from yelling or screaming for help.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the femail getting tested.
That was Fe mail.
They didn't use aluminum or brass.
How did I miss this video, So glad you linked it at the end of the katana vs chain/plate video
Seems like the butted mail really didn’t fair too bad against the riveted. Honestly I think you should have ran the full test on both
Was definitely surprised how well the butted did with the ones that went through the riveted. It was more penetration, but not nearly the amount I anticipated
Great video as always! I was wondering where you got the riveted hauberk from?
"I do lots of frolicking. I am a beast at frolicking. Whenever you're not seeing me, I'm probably frolicking."
Shad, I think I figured out why you're so exhausted.
This video is exactly what I needed to prove to my friends that chainmail actually prevents a lot from thrusts. Like the spear could not get through. The swords could also not get through.
I feel as though you were anticipating this comment. But needle bodkin are better at piercing maile than plate cutters, but if the plate cutters go through, obviously the needles will so... yeah. Also.
Apparantly archers would rub their arrow heads on a bar of wax before battle. Tod of tods workshop tested it and it worked wonders.
Nice video guys! Have always been a long time fan shad! I hope to catch you lot at either Abbey medieval festival next year or Cryal caatles fair.
Best weapon to defeat chain mail? I’d take a heavy machine gun. Best way to deal with a castle? I’d take a tactical nuke. Best way for Rome to defeat Carthage? Global nuclear war.
Video idea: I would like to see a video about mounted slingers.
-Bows can be shoot from behind cover, slings don't, and cavalry operates in the open field.
-Bows are best shoot from a still position, slings are shot from a dynamic position, riding a horse is a much lower handicap for slings than bows.
-Arrows are strongly dependent on air resistance or the strength of the bow, slings depends more on the force of the user. If you shot a sling at the right moment of the horse stride you can use the back legs strength in the shoot. Also you can use the tangential force if the shoot is done while making a curb.
-One of archer's biggest strengths is to shot a dense volley of arrows simultaneously, but mounted archers are severely handicapped to do those, just like slingers
-Bows require two hands, slings only once (except for placing the ammunition in the sling).
-Slings strength depends on lenght (some are mounted on sticks, similar to a trebuchet), riding a horse increases the distance from the ground significantly, allowing larger, stronger slings
-Lead ammunitions weight more than arrows, it is significant for foot soldiers, but insignificant weight for a horse.
-Blunt force projectiles does better against armours, as stated by spanish conquistadors when fighting the aztecs.
Slings make so much more sense than archers to be a ranged mounted unit. It feels like a missed opportunity of history. Most of the previous points make bows better than slings... on foot, but all that is lost once they're mounted. It feels like bows got all that inertia displacing the slings, and centuries later when the time for mounted units came nobody gave a second though.
I'd like you to make a video giving it a serious though.
The person who made that armor should be proud. It did it job and did it well.
Great work guys
Thank you for including us WoD Storyteller's in there XD Doing a Dark Ages chronicle and this will be fun details.
Superb video as always. Very interesting results from the test, guys. Cutlery is definitely king of the battlefield, lol 😂
I skipped to 14:50 and thought "Huh... Shad's look has changed!" Hahaha
The quality of the vieos is magnificent, love everyone involved.
The intro is so good that I watch it like 3 times whenever a new vid comes out!
Y’all crack me up, personalities compliment each other’s very well for the content.👌 B4 the vid continues, I’m going to GUESS a mace, maul, or cudgel of some kind. I don’t see mail stopping much of any real blunt force damage. Your mail would likely survive but you wouldn’t.😂
Given the success of the fork, I figured out the best weapon to use.
Knitting needle.
Man from the time Nate and Tyranth joined this became my favorite channel. I liked it before, but the trio together is always fun times
4:20 Depending on how you oil it all mail is buttered mail.
Shad's maniacal laughter while letting loose with the bec de corbin was kinda disturbing . . .
Thanks for posting
I had a mail suit once. Sadly, the first day I wore it outside I got caught in the rain and the envelopes got soggy.
This was well made, i learned alot about how the chainmail can hold up against piercing attacks. Can you also make video on chainmail protection against bludgeoning attack. My idea of setup, coloured water, filled ballons maybe few inside one another, butcher bought bone for broth, lined up under the chainmail. Would damage be spread out or human strength swing is enough to pound through muscle (balloon) to break bones (broth bones). If within sponsor/ budget there are variations rivet, pressed, linked. To make videos on
i think a good chainmail armor will work well for vacations in london
Im with Shad, pop the gambeson when your chilling with your fellow adventurers
This test felt very rewarding - one might even say validating - for someone like me whose favorite flavour of weaponry has always been "combi-polearms" like the bec de corbin, poleaxe, halberd, billhook etc.
I'm digging the intro.
Frolicking 😜
22:25 Shad laughing and jolly nature is medicine
A couple things I think are worth following up on for the sake of verification. First, I am not very familiar with Gladius blade profiles but if there is variation in that, I wonder how a different Gladius would perform against chainmail. Obviously another Gladius won't pierce a chainmail with as much ease as the Bec de Corbin, but if the Gladius was designed to combat chainmail, would like to see if that claim is valid. Secondly, some more test shots with that particular arrow head to see if it can penetrate anywhere else on the body. The shots we saw in the video all landed in the shoulder/collar, I'm just curious to see if it is as effective if it landed in the gut region where the gambeson beneath the chainmail is likely thicker than near the collar.
Current day Shad looks like he could mentor Shad from 8 years ago.
The first weapons that came to mind when the video started was a mace: to basically bypass the mail through blunt force. Or a rapier but it is a lot newer than the weapons that were being used. All in all very cool video! Kinda sad to see a suit of chainmail get wrecked though haha
1) it's about penatration
2) you don't bypass the mail, only mitigate it to some extent (as the mail will still have an effect)
3) you overestimate the ability to inflict blunt force trauma on medieval armour. Primary sources claim mail with padding and independant gambeson were effective against Maces which were intended to target heads (this matches up to studies on medieval battle field dead who have almost no blunt force trauma injuries outside of the head and neck area, with the majority of the rest being on the knees, and only a minority being on shoulders, praciticlaly none elsewhere)
@@matthiuskoenig3378Cite primary sources specifically mentioning the efficacy of padding under mail in protecting against blunt trauma. There is little to no evidence that the padding used would’ve been anywhere near enough to mitigate damage much more than a plain wool tunic.
1. This chainmail is magnificent! I really appreciate this. It take hundreds of hours to make good chainmail. 2. We clearly see why chainmail was so popular for more than thousand years. Only few, dedicated weapons could destroy it. Greatest surprise - Katana and daggers.
Great video, only thing I feel would make it better is if you guys can get your hands on a anatomical chest analog. Show people that even if you aren't cut or stabbed you will definitely break a rib on some of those strikes.
interesting video. Chainmail is suprisingly good armor and fork seems like an amazing weapon.
Wow! The mail did a lot better than I thought it would. Great video!
That looked like a fun video to do. 👍