What I Learned Working For A Sociopath
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- My Newsletter: benjaminantoine.substack.com
This was probably one of the hardest situations of my professional life. Our immediate environment and the people in it are so important. Understanding people is both fascinating and frightening. Up until this point I thought I was pretty good at reading people...I certainly found out that there is always room for improvement.
#sociopath #toxicworkplace #whatilearned
Funny how at small scale(smaller companies) we called them sociopaths but at larger scale like Apple and Tesla(Jobs and Musk) we call them visionaries even though they behave exactly the same, intimidating people, manipulating, bullying, firing on a whim etc.
Interesting point which I think has validity. Most people don’t see the nasty side of things from a distance, it’s easy to get blinded by the charm and achievement
Plenty of people think Elon Musk is nuts
@@Degjoy Yes but they havent classified him as what he is yet. I cant say he is sociopath with confidence but I can say he has overt NPD.
exactly
@@Degjoy Because he is, that's normal. At least as many people, probably more, think he is an outstanding enterpreneur and a cultivated innovator.
I worked at a Canadian hospital on a psychiatric ward. The new manager had charmed her way in with the staff until she was comfortable and then the misery began. She would play mind games such as promoting a nurse and then immediately remove the promotion with some flimsy reason. She was married but had no problem having sex with the hospital CEO and male staff in her office. She treated our gay staff terribly by changing their schedules and saying inappropriate nonsense. She was frequently going into our lockdown unit, wearing a mini-skirt and flirting with extremely dangerous male patients thus rousing these men into a frenzy. She constantly violated our union contracts and then assume a victim role. Gaslighting the nurses seemed to be her favourite hobby. She finally left the ward for another job probably because the union grievances against her were costing the hospital a fortune. We discovered that she had been asked to leave several prior positions. These snakes can inflict a lot of psychologic, physical and spiritual damage.
That is so crazy that these people can get new positions without problems. Surely her references at least vague referred to these past issues!
Municipal hospital? You have to thank the incompetent recruiters we have abundantly of. Some screening and reference check would have saved you all this hustle.
Healthcare is seen as a soft target by psychopaths and the socialist nature of public health means that the money keeps coming in no matter how many sadistic freeloaders they employ.
Cool it with the misogyny
@@nomore2001 Women are worse bullies than men. Both males and females prefer male bosses and teachers.
I once worked for a narcissist, worst experience ever. Over 400 hours a month, after 5 months I had a breakdown
I worked under a sociopath once. A very stupid lady in an administration in Canada. Very sad. I'm glad she suffered a divorce right after. I wish her more misadventures in life.
Oh dear. That sounds bad
que sera 🤣 Karma will bite her on the ass
LOL
Same w/ me. Better to be patient, never retaliate in kind, unless your life is in immediate danger. Twice people have tried to take me down and faced ruin by their own stupidity, one is ashes the other undergoing a ton of litigation, they stepped on bigger toes than mine. I'm dealing w/ a psycho now, waiting them out. If creeps feel you're better, more moral, have supplies of love and no malice and power they want to steal, be on guard and wait.
Glad she suffered a divorce after huh? You are just as sad as this TH-camr. You people just diagnosing others as a sociopath is absurd.
One thing I learned about working for a sociopathic principal is that they can not change. Management will keep them on as long as 'goals are being met'. HR is there to protect the company. I'm totally with you. You regain your power by saying, "No more." Good on you.
Thank you. And yes if goals are being met it’s difficult to justify management changes
If only those at the top realised goals are being met DESPITE the sociopath, not because of them.
I grew up with a parent like this and there is no winning. You couldn’t have done anything differently. There is only leaving or having more of the same.
I feel for you. Growing up with that is such a much more extreme situation. I hope you’ve been able to move on
I also grew up with a parent with narcissistic personality disorder and anti social personality disorder - it was hell, I’ve cut him off but still lasting effects.
It is extremely difficult to be as strong as a sociopath/ psychopath because we are restrained by our moral boundaries, whereas they are not. We have some advantages but being around them is incedribly draining on every level. Be well B I G x
It took me 18 months to convince the board that one director has anti social personality disorder combined with paranoia - we issue the notice of 28 days to pass an board resolution to remove him tomorrow - it’s been truly exhausting.
Oh god! I can only imagine!
Those menaces, are trully disturbing. They fly under the radar and they are very productive, but they destroy everyone around them and cause them to be ill. Its like they are literal radioactive toxic. Everyone arounds them suffers. I hope this person is gone by now.
I'm sorry, but unless you're a clinical psychologist then I just don't believe that story.
In fact, I would go so far to say that if you were to give an armchair psychoanalysis of one board member to the others then it would probably be you who ended up out on their ear.
The fact that you spent 18 months trying to get someone sacked with said armchair psychology, suggests this might be a you problem.
@@AfroGaz71 I think the people they brought that up to 18 months ago had the same response as you. In fact, can you imagine some person trying to convince you that one of your more trusted business partners is a liability? I get your concern, but your protestations are mild in comparison to what I imagine @thatwhit1 has already confronted.
That, of course, does not mean that I necessarily believe the story, but I do find it plausible.
Do you regularly get people removed from their jobs?
THIS is exactly the kind of personality that thrives and rises to the "top" in the modern, capitalist, corporate world. This is what's baked into the cake, so to speak. In generations past it was royals and despots that rose into these positions. Now it's the corporate world, and the financial world of catering to shareholders over employees is reinforcing it. Is there a fix? Not anytime soon. The best we can do is be aware of damaged people like this and try and protect ourselves on an individual basis. Thank you for your story so that we can all learn from it. And this is why stories are so powerful for humans -- we can learn lessons from others without having to go through it firsthand. (p.s. I love your voice!)
Thank you very much for sharing. That was my hope as I do not wish this experience on anyone and saw first hand that if your personal circumstances are different (kids, mortgage etc) it makes changing the environment a lot scarier!
Exactly!!
I’m not sure capitalism is to blame. Sociopaths will always exist, and they will always have an advantage climbing social hiérarchies ("socialist" states have more than their fair share of sociopaths at the top). It’s horrible, but I think it’s part of life.
@@Samgurney88 ensure people can't get physically overpowered with the perpetrator being unscathed physicially, if everyone is afraid of seriously doing eachother wrong because everyone is assumed to be armed around the world because small arms become so cheap and plentiful is a world I want to live in. Everyone having zero outlet to go "I'm having a bad day, I think this guy looks soft and weak, I am going to take advantage of him and push him around and mess with him."
My least favorite setting is a town that is anti gun and as a result people think they can yell at people till they are red in the face as if people cant touch them. Like New York City, or London. "Try that shit in a small town", except world wide. I wonder where those assholes will stick their energy? Or maybe that kind of energy will go extinct when generations upon generations watch people try to impose themselves on other people and get ventilated when they take it too far physically.
@@Samgurney88Exactly, the Soviet Union wasn’t exactly ran by nice people.
I had a boss like that once. Not sure what he was, sociopath, psychopath, he was just hell to work with. One thing I learned was that these kind of people are extremely strong willed. I took it for 2 years before giving up. just walked out during a conference, didn't say goodbye or even looked back. All I heard were the gasps from the others and the boss telling me to come back and sit down.
It took me a lot of courage to do that, but once I did, it was the most intensive feeling of freedom I've ever experienced. Before I knew it I had packed my personal things and was in the company car park walking over to my car. I sent the company my letter of resignation the next day and never heard from anyone at the firm ever again.
I think I should have left far earlier, the minute I realised just how toxic the work environment was. Something like that can damage you for a long time if you don't watch out.
But how do you explain all what happened at your next job interview when you have to explain why you left and what about a reference from that company you walked out on? You can’t really say at your interview why you left because the interviewer might think yo7 can’t get along with people. Situations like this can be a double edged sword.
@@Stringbean421 I simply told them at the interview what happened at my last job and that I don't have references. I took it that if the company interviewing me is any good they'll understand the circumstances why I left like I did and respect my reasoning. It worked and I was even commended for my honesty. They said it was refreshing to have a job candidate who for once didn't embellish their last job.
I worked there for 10 years until I became self-employed and even got work from them after that.
I suppose it could have gone in the other direction, but hey, there are tonnes of jobs out there.
@@Stringbean421 You make up a happy ending story like all other do?🤷♂
@@cscs9192and when they contact your former workplace and find out you're lying? You think that would help you? 😂
@@Stringbean421 If the last place you worked is the best reference for your experience, you can hide certain things. And no, that is not lying. You can steer a conversation towards the skills and experience you gained and maybe (when asked) mention you got along fine but that sometimes you would clash somewhat because everybody was very passionate towards the product. Yes, that could be considered lying. I call it being creative.
Thx for your open words. Due to my personal lessons learned the moment you become aware of such a situation it is the best to leave. Never count on HR!!!
Agreed, HR works for the management, and not the worker bees.
Yes. It's easier said than done but I will definitely act quicker next time
@@britingermany HR often hires psychologists who use their (pseudo)science to destroy people rather than help them as they were told. The right address for such concerns is rather the union, but generally they refuse to act against certain genders. While you do speak a great German, sociological fights are very hard to win unless your fully natively in the culture. Don't try to fight against the wind mills
The R in HR should give anyone a clue how they really care about you.
I worked for small orgs and big ones. I came to the conclusion that HR is in the way if you want to sort issue with a colleague, for the simple reason the details are sived through and everything has to fit into an abstract process. When issues are directly dealt with its much more fruitful.
Exactly why I refuse to work in the 9 to 5 corporate environment. Self-employment is a step in the right direction. Grow the channel.
Thank you. I’m trying to 😉
I agree about being self employed, it changes your mindset and it also changes how you are treated by these type of people. Whilst it can draw fire initially, ultimately the ability to walk away when you want, finances being a bit of a game changer though, means you can have a degree of detatchment which makes a huge difference. I have experienced toxic workplaces many times, walk away with dignity.
taking up running was the springboard that gave me the mental strength to leave my sociopath, i lived homeless for a while afterwards but loved the freedom
That must have been a very difficult decision. I hope things worked out for you in the end
More people should be made aware of narcissistic abuse in the workplace hopefully this video will help.
I hope so too as I think it is way too common.
Hey, I worked in commercial and BBC radio for 29 years. Most bosses I had were narcissists and sociopaths!
that sounds like hell. How did you stick it out for so long?
@@britingermany Money.
At least more and more people are now more aware that such sociopaths exist, ( and are successful in business and politics, ) thanks in part to videos like this one, which I am sure was not an easy decision for you to make.
So sorry you had to go through this.
In my early 20s, I too had good advice from a dear uncle who, when I told him what was happening, told me: "get out! put in your resignation this Monday! There is no need for you to put yourself in such a situation, and you are just enabling the boss to continue." Uncle helped me write the letter too. I found out a decade later that he also had written a letter to the company owner to let them know they had a bad apple.
very lucky indeed 😉
Being 100% transparent among coworkers usually takes away the means of control and manipulation. It somewhat helps to regain posture.
Agreed…but those were the side stories and tangents I left out…the coworkers were also not easy
What if your coworkers are a bunch of enablers? What if their only concern is just to survive?
Your soft-spoken sincerity and laying your Soul bare here are some of the most beautiful features on your channel. Thank you for sharing your insights and wisdoms freely ❤
Thank you for your comments and support. I helps a lot 😀
Absolutely. He has a measured calmness that is reassuring. The kind of insidious duplicity and gaslighting that his boss displayed is far too common in the world today; I'm dealing with it at a familial level - with my own mother - it has taken years if not decades off my life.
And yes, they are often completely incompetent! Well done for leaving!!
It's very important to talk about, if you can, but it's most important get out there fast!!
I worked in a volunteer sex project for a international med school organisation. Once i led the project, me and my team did good work - until one of them got more and more unhinged. We all let her be because of all her sob stories, with which she explained away her character deficiencies ("having cancer" being one of them). Once i resigned, she came fully mask off - but since she had lots of money from her rich family to travel around, she had great international connections and orchestrated lies about me and my coworkers. Against my warnings, she was able assume my position and bleed everyone dry who worked under her, while being able to further network. Noone believed me, and when I tried to advocate for a friend who suffered sexual assualt, harassment, hate speech, bullying and even a SWAT call, i was ignored by the international boards. Those people at the same time will turn arpund and do reports about how the organisation fights against discrimination. These are the types of people who will be our future hospital admins and public health leaders. Fun times.
I had a similarly dreadful manager once who was a total narcissist. It was all about her rather than the team and the work and blamed others for things that went round, rather than looking at her own actions. Totally power crazy and manipulative. Some of the things she did seem to be a bit like the ones your boss did. Best thing to do is get out.
I had three of them so far. Some are bosses because they're not able to work in a team.
@@Stoffmonster467 Thanks for your comment.
I have thought a lot about narcissists in 2 generations in my family. They seem to be the partners of some of us who are very amicable, meek or who like to fit in. We are also compassionate people and aren't great on having strong boundaries.
I am only just now thinking about the fact that at work they can't work with others. One doesn't work. One strongly didn't want to have a boss. One was the boss. I heard he treated his workers very badly.
Now I will add this trait to list of signs to look out for. The best way to avoid getting caught up with narcs is to be discerning, and to be aware of what to look out for.
As everyone here seems to know, caught up with one, can be the most harrowjng, nightmarish ride of life time. Boundaries are crucial from the very outskirt.
I can see clearly why many bosses can be narcs.
I've had this twice in my career with all the classic behaviours (being nice in private but undermining in pubic, changing their mind from one meeting to the next and flatly denying in front of 20 people that they had, mind games playing people off against each other, supporting the yes men but having melt downs with those who even mildly stuck to their guns). It was a horrible experience and one which nobody should live through. You did the right thing: It's not quitting, it's recognising that you're in a no-win, toxic situation where you'd be insane to stay. Now, when I am considering a new role, I'm hyper alert about avoiding this sort of manager. Thanks so much for sharing this!
Thank you for your insights. It will be the number one thing I look out for when entering into new relationships and I will definitely be keeping those kind of people at arms length
I’ve worked in an abusive environment like that. You try everything but it’s never good enough. You feel constantly stressed/unwell/unbalanced, but you can’t put your finger on it until after you leave, so you never realise you are in a toxic environment. What saved me was covid - wfh meant time away from her clutches (and oh boy did she not like that, but she quickly learnt new ways to upset me) and eventually I got culled in a lay off and I could not be happier.
It’s weird, I spoke to an old mutual colleague (who had also left) and told her honestly what happened, but she just couldn’t believe it and I suspect she thought I was just a problem employee. These bullies are really clever like that, they target people, but treat others very well. No one suspects or indeed believes the one lone voice which upends their perceived reality of that person.
Yes o think that is a common outcome as not everyone has the same experience
It is you.
Effective bullies do have an instinct to identify which people with particular vulnerabilities make them the best victims, and which won't. So, yeah, I suspect that's what happened to you.
I'm not going to easily say I disbelieve you, because I've seen it happen from the sidelines. Where I thought I simply had a hard/demanding boss, and yet one of my friends/colleagues broke down and cry at one point from them.
Now, I'd know better to actively try to interfere/help, but when I was younger, I have no experience with that at all.
@@Marewig good on you for trying to help! I was bullied when younger so I absolutely do have a weakness and they’re so good at pushing the buttons! Honestly the only way to deal with this kind of thing is to remain silent and leave. It’s the only thing that works. Any other course of action leads to trouble.
@@britingermany agreed. There is a reason why the bully always remains and the victim leaves.
So sorry you got caught up in such an abusive, gaslighting situation! I myself got out of a toxic work environment earlier this year and have just started a new job in Berlin as of Friday. Crossing my fingers that it works out this time. But I needed to take a three month break in between just to recover from my previous employment misadventures. Wishing you all the best in your channel and other career pursuits! I appreciate you speaking out about this. So often, the business world is full of all sorts of narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths in high positions.
Congratulations and fingers crossed for you with the new job. Very interesting to hear that you also took a break. Sometimes that is the best thing you can do.
@@britingermanyI consider myself a sociopath. Most people I know disagree.
The sociopath's dilemma isn't consistency. It's consistency in remaining consistent. You eventually find yourself talking to a robot who CAN rationalise if and when he chooses. The much rarer breed are the sociopaths who see evil a mile away but who are conscious enough of the benefits of self-restraint not to engage - and consequently - entertain and become entrained by evil.
I appreciate your honesty. 🤲
It's quite disturbing, when one looks more deeply into this phenomenon, just how many people have these traits and are walking alongside us, particularly in big cities/high power businesses. You were indeed brave. It takes a huge amount to remove yourself from such a situation and be able to change your sense of having failed to knowing that you were incredibly smart and dodged a bullet. It really is amazing how one person can cause such widespread trauma. Thanks for sharing your experience - a lot of people feel like they are the only ones in the world going through it. Pass auf dich auf
Yes you’re right. And often you only find out the truth if you are day on day out with those people. A lunch together, or a phone call can be very pleasant if you have nothing else to do with them.
Indeed, wouldn't it have been nice to have just had lunch and never had anything further to do with them?! If only. It's pretty hard to trust anyone after something like this. You wonder how many people really are genuine in your life, even loved ones' intentions can come into question. Hopefully time will at some point mean that the trauma that you and anyone else has gone through becomes just a story you can tell without the associated painful feelings accompanying them. It's important to keep talking about it until you can get to that point.
@@kathyhaering3460 it is interesting isn’t it?! Maybe a reason why many people prefer to keep things superficial when it comes to networks and relationships. I think deep down I was preparing to leave after the third month of starting. It just took me a long time to get there
I’ve heard that about 1 in 100 people are psychopaths. Not sure if it’s true.
@@britingermany I had never thought of that before.
It sounds like a good explanation, which had never crossed my mind.
Being friendly and helpful to others is a crucial thing I believe in. Being open and honest does let predators know that we could be good targets.
But I wouldn't want to change such beautiful traits, so I will be work on having discernment, and a stronger boundary when a person crosses the line. Also to observe people and notice red flags.
Being a giver means to me, a rich, deep and rewarding life. Being open and authentic, I wouldn't want to become too guarded and lacking in trust.
I am a typical empath, and truthteller. Some of the people I look up to are scapegoated for these specific reasons. Starting with Jews, and of course Jesus gives me examples of strength, spirituality and humanity. All are strong on caring for every individual, on forgiveness etc.
I was targetted by a narcissist and her flying monkeys. I recall making a list of the traits of her and her supporters, and of me and my supporters.
Open, honest and trusting were on one side. Closed, inflexible, secretive and dishonest were descriptions on the other list.
I realised that much of the jealousy of me was around my warm relationships, joy, and capabilities.
My capabilities came from practising throughout my life a habit of serving others, which came from caring. I believe I gradually got to a place where I felt I could do anything (my aim was serving others). My children mentioned that this capabilitywas another reason for the envy. It's just somethjng that lead to confidence.
This particular experience in my life taught me so many beautiful lessons over a few years. I also became a lot stronger after losing many important people in my life. (In truth they weren't all that important).
Strength is a tremendous thing.
I am specifically writing to give an alternative pathway to any form of shutting down, closing off, losing faith in people, and especially to being superficial.
I was a nurse jn my career and it was hugely rewarding. Other parts of my life were even more rewarding- much more, and the focus was consistently outside my own self.
I think that non material rewards are far greater achievements than any material or financial rewards. I had both, buf oly ond can disappear again.
After the horror of narcissistic abuse comes a wonderful time for reflection, growth, tweaking and some redirection.
I know this will all be happening for you and others. Buf I just like to give a heads up concerning future joy, satisfaction and deep meaning in life.
I realise you live in a culture that has gone in the direction of being cut off from "strangers" but a lot of joy goes out the door with that path. You can see it in facial expressions, and in complaining, and in self focus, and in obsessions with time, work and money rather than people.
Being Kiwi, I have learned about a most beautiful, deep and spiritual culture in this land, on this whenua.
The Maori are connected. Very connected to the universe, planet, nature and people.
They offer help to anyone in need, especiallg the elderly who are revered for their wisdom and connection to the past etc. Children are precious due to their divine natures. Visitors are very very warmly welcomed and cared for also.
Strangers in other areas of NZ have offered us food, drink blankets, ( te Urewera, People of the Mist). and a place to sleep (by their beach in Taranaki) and generously share their knowledge, time, peace and concern.
Pono means being open.
Manaakitanga is the name for all their care, service and generosity.
Kotahitanga involves humility, treating all people the same, as one, and accepting all people and embracing diversity.
Maori people literally JUMP at the opportunity to help. I see this constantly!
I notice they help, in action. If is usually not in words. They don't get personally attached. It is more like consistent acts of service.
The Righteous of Nations have been a big influence for me also. It is the smaller acts, then bigger risks, which are part of a trajectory of compassion and sacrifice. Like our tangata whenua of New Zealand, the rescuers developed through repetition a habit. There it was their capacity to take risks for others- often strangers.
They will be remembered forever, while the greedy and selfish, people want to forget.
An Aussie guy came to NZ and shot at people who were praying. It is our forgiving Muslim victims and the acts of bravery that are focused on and remembered- and especially the rescuing of strangers.
I decided on a spiel because you are clearly very reflective and someone on a path of growth and great things.
This sounds like a nightmare situation! You definitely did the right thing by leaving.
Didn't feel like it at the time but in retrospect it definitely was the best thing to do
You can't improve such a situation, this kind of character will never change.
I learned a long time ago to never take anything business related too seriously. Having a strict work environment is fine, I can even handle emotional people, but if you attempt to intimidate or humiliate me I will laugh and walk away. This is why it’s very important to have 3-4 months of living expenses in savings, lack of financial security is a common reason why people allow others to treat them inappropriately. If you know you can leave and look for other work easily, it provides a great deal of comfort and self-confidence.
Thank you so much for that heartfelt video. My thoughts on that topic: manipulative people are essentially playing a game, a game YOU CANNOT win basically. Whatever you do you are always on the losing end… the only thing you can do is stop playing „their“ game by stepping away from it. Well done to you for feeling all that and gaining clarity afterwards. Some people are never able to see behind a manipulative behaviour and struggle all their lives. Essentially you are made to feel that YOU are wrong or something is wrong with you and if you believe that feeling then it can really get into a viscous cycle.
Thank you so much for sharing such a personal and incredible vulnerable topic!
Cheers,
Anne
Thank you for your kind words Anne. They are very helpful 🙏
@@britingermany❤
I was bullied at uni by my best friend who just like,,, turned almost overnight, and yeah I transferred universities, one of the best decisions Ive ever made.
They were very good with words and very manipulative like you were saying with having to sit in on every meeting to help people say tricky things, this person would only talk to me in a Facebook group chat as long as a 3rd person was present so they could spin whatever and there would be "a witness".
Honestly felt like being a flies in a spiders web except only I could see the web
Yes it is horrid, especially if no one else sees it. Great that you could transfer Uni. I guess that was not an easy process. Well done
@@britingermanyand same to you leaving your job 💪
It's frightening how many people like this exist in the workplace, especially in the public sector. And once in a position of authority they become a protected class. I've worked in teams where staff have lodged new complaints about a narcissistic manager every week and HR do nothing despite preaching policies which claim to crack down on such behaviour. I've even heard of union reps rolling over when faced with cases against narcissistic/sociopathic managers for fear of winding up on blacklists themselves. These individuals ultimately destroy every organisation they're a part of yet it continues unabated. As you say, the only way to take back power is to walk away. Nothing wounds a narcissist more than taking their "toys" away
That inner dialogue you had was correct, IMO. It isn't weak to walk away when there is no other way forward, it's the only sensible and logical thing to do, and it is taking back control of the situation. That boss needed you there, and needed you passive and docile, and you said "Nope, I'm not taking any more of this" and went. She lost. Many get ground down so far in their self-worth that they think they must be thankful just to have this job. So leaving is exactly that, taking back control. Takes a while to get over it, though.
Thanks a lot for your kind words 😀
Hearing your story, alarms went off in my mind when you said "people in this team have been working together for 10+ years". Run! Run away! (Very common in Government roles)
I had a malignant narc as a CEO in recent years. I made her realise from the start that I had seen through her, and as a result she couldn't manipulate. She departed in a hurry some time later, a "real Jekyll and Hyde" character as others told me. Yes, I could see it from the start.
it almost seems like most of the psycho managers in business are women, right? Insane..
I went through something similar. When your boss 'bathes' in his aftershave every morning, acts out his choleric fits on almost everyone, and the only thing he doesn't have is 'clue' (and an awful lot of it), you really should 'in den Sack hauen' as soon as possible. I also did everything right many years ago.
I had an experience many years ago where a sociopath poisoned everyone in the company against me.
It got to the point that I simply sent out a company wide email saying there it had come to my attention that an individual had been talking shit to everyone behind my back and if they had the guts they could come confront me in person.
Well this sent the whole company into a tailspin and earned me a visit from the CEO. I explained the situation and he asked what I thought he should do. I suggested a company meeting.
Well, at that meeting the individual was called out (not by me) and he absolutely EXPLODED. He went on a tirade accusing me of everything under the sun.
We almost came to blows in the end.
But after that it became very apparent that he had been doing this to a great number of coworkers.
He was never quite the same again.
Nothing was ever done to me. I was never reprimanded or punished in any way.
Today is my first day of unemployment after 18 years. What you described is 99% what I went through. I fought and managed to win the battle on the one hill I choose to die on,at expense of continuing to work there. I agree that people should look to leave as soon as possible, but I would also encourge them to report all the instances of sociopathic behavior. Take care! ❤
Btw you earned a new subscriber. Your video showed up in my feed yesterday. Synchronicity! 😊
well congratulations are in order then. It is a tremendously difficult step to take and one I would only reccomend after all other options have been exhausted. It sounds like you did that so well done. All the best for you
Unfortunately, my experience with work place bullying is that when it happens you're usually going to find that you're on your own. Coworkers display cowardice and will often abandon you in case they become a target and 'higher ups' will often just label you a troublemaker. The only sane response is to walk away. workplace cultures like this survive and thrive because they are being supported to do so. Thinking that you can change an entire workplace culture is a fools errand and will only result in getting hurt, frustrated and more deeply entrenched - like an animal caught in a net, thrashing about wildly and only becoming more entangled and exhausted. I think the irony is that when we 'give up' trying and accept the situation for what it is and accept our powerlessness over the situation and others, that we access our true power - to observe our emotions without judgement and be detached from them, to not internalise other peoples behaviour and treatment of us and to remove ourselves from damaging situations. I also don't think its fair to say that this woman was stronger than you, she sounds like she was devoid of empathy and it's amazing how 'strong' someone can be when they're unencumbered with emotions and conscience. You really don't want that type of 'strength'.
Well said. Can totally identify with that 😀
My first employer in Germany was the craziest experience I have ever had. Micromanagement, overwork, high pressure, passive -aggressive emails, fear and even privacy violation are among the things I experienced in this small IT consulting company in Bayern. Employees did not last much unless you subjugated to their stile of work, which did not happen much tbh.After being assigned to a nice client for 7 months, when I had to come back to the office I had a breakdown /burn-out which lasted over 5 months. i felt bad I was like this and on a positive note, I received Krankendgeld. I am glad I have payed that back to society while working not stop after with another employer Working in Germany can be the craziest experience if you have bad luck
So sorry to hear that. The main thing is to realise that it's not you. Some whither where others thrive and the best thing is to move on and find the environment where you can thrive 😀
Thanks for sharing and sorry you had to experience this. I think your analysis is spot on and you did the right thing
Thanks a lot Oliver.
You did exactly the right thing: In the working world, there is no other option than to quit if you have a boss with a narcissistic or psychopathic personality disorder and want to stay mentally healthy yourself.
And please don't tell yourself you're weaker than she is. Personality disorders like the ones you describe are essentially mental disabilities: Such people are unable to assess themselves realistically, unable to recognize the value of others, and unable to perceive anything larger than themselves. They are therefore unable to form truly sustainable interpersonal relationships.
Your handling of the situation shows that you can do all of this very well.
Which of you is stronger?
Thanks a lot for your kind words. 🙏
Sociopathy is embedded in the corporate world in the west, not just in senior management but in consultancy as well.
Unfortunately I think there’s a lot of truth in that
I once had the misfortune to have one in my team. Before they started they were little miss perfect and once in the door the manipulation and the games started almost immediately. They were a malignant narcissist and possibly a psychopath.n the fact that I as her line manager made NO DIFFERENCE and I soon came to be one of her targets. She created absolute chaos and grief before eventually being managed back out the door. My advice is to play the long game, stay professional and detached from their petty dramas and manipulations and record EVERYTHING - every conversation held in private and every odd thing they do. Email the notes to yourself so that they are all date stamped! It is exhausting keeping half a step ahead of these people, but worth the effort!
What do you actually do with the notes?
@@eadweard. , used them for reference for HR/higher line management as evidence of the pattern of behaviour and to remind her what was said/done when. It is always a good idea in a work situation like that to recap conversations that have just been had with the person and send a note of your understanding/recollection of things to them. They tend to lie or fail to remember rather a lot!
@@lks6248 This is true. But I usually find they are careful/subtle enough to always build plausible deniability into what they say. Having said that, when everything finally blows up, I'm always surprised how much of what I knew others understood too.
I think that's all you can do really a lot of the time when dealing with people like that, walk away and avoid their games/create space elsewhere for yourself where you don't have to be subject to their abuse, or just silently collect evidence, because they are very good at convincing everyone one little incident didn't happen or they're seeing it wrong, it's a very sad society that allows people like this to thrive but all we can do is stay out of their clutches because they will try to crush anyone who stands against them. I'm currently living with what I feel to be a sociopath and they've only revealed their true colours recently, it's difficult to process and they're very good at making you doubt yourself and your concerns while making themselves out to be friendly, I'd rather just have someone insult me or punch me. I'm just keeping out of drama and avoiding their games until I can move out 😅
Dude... your story is my story. Walking away, if one can, is THE only answer with a sociopath. Unfortunately, I did have "The Nervous Breakdown" and became ill as a result.... it all ended with the company putting me on long term disability until I turn 65.
EVERYTHING you describe is true and is a TYPICAL tale working with a sociopath.
It is a confusing work environment and it's difficult for others who haven't dealt with one to fully understand. The insurance company and my employer treated me like a maggot after I just up and walked away from the office on one afternoon when I could not take it anymore. IT is one of THE most physically painful experiences in my life. Ultimately, 'the boss' finally got sacked after two years but that was no condolence to me.
When you said " You could write a book.... man, I hear you dude. All I can say is " I GOT OUT ALIVE".
Thank you for commenting that sounds tragic, I think I got out at just the right time, thank god! I hope you are in a better place now🙏
To tell the truth.... I don't know where I'd be without my family's love who got me to ' that better place '. But thank YOU for the honest, well spoken video so well describing these workplaces and their effects on employees.
BTW, enjoying your channel with a keen insight on cultural observations.
@@calgarycanada248 that’s great that you have a loving family to rely on. So important on difficult times
I had one of those and she was awfully abusive and lies like it’s absolutely nothing. After a very very long time she was eventually fired but she even lied then! She had to sign a paper said she has been informed about her dismissal and she said she had to go to the bathroom first then she just ran away without signing. I think it got her more pay or something… it was an awful and insane experience… she also said she had cancer and then said she was suicidal but also said if we said anything she’ll fire us immediately… she kept on getting manager jobs…
Thank you for sharing. People with personality disorders are apparently 2 in every 100 people. I have met a couple professionally over the years, with a common trait - triangulation is the key to their mind games / control. If I see this in peers or leadership now I use anon feedback tools / group meetings to build consensus + record & change manage everything. Even the most disciplined of lizard brains can’t keep the facade up once drama & bad decisions can be pinned on them.
In smaller / hierarchical teams I would recommend getting out asap.
Unfortunately, until most normal people have a really bad 1st experience - how could we ever be prepared for the drama / insanity of these fractured fake people.
“In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.” Oscar Wilde
that is why most people want WFH - everything has a trace and most drama queens can't work in such environments
Thanks for sharing. The illusion that serious abuse doesn't happen in 'modern' workplaces is wide-spread. So is polarity....thanks for the neutrality. Having seen both "classic" stereotypical male corruption and bullying of female staff, bullying by male union cliques, and also organization wide dysfunction caused by sociopathic very senior females building their own structures of abuse - all at the same time in the same organization - it deeply saddens me that debate over this is so often divisive group based us vs them rhetori😢
It really is a tricky subject. Especially as it’s never black and white. Thanks can improve for a time which is just enough to give hope before the manipulation starts again.
What fascinates me (and leaves me in frustration and despair) is how childlike and simple most adults awareness of bullying is. It's very cartoonish where the villains and 'innocents' all present in the way we've been conditioned to recognise, thanks to cartoons, fables, books, TV shows, movies and so on. It's never that simple. TRUE bullying has evolved to a real artform in our current era and it's nowhere near as easy to boldly identify these days. A bully can have a terrific sense of humour, be a master of controlling emotional climate in a workplace etc and know how to charm and entertain. People just become mesmerised and totally taken in by them, but then it's too late and they've got you under their mastery and control and it's hard to untangle oneself and cleanse the environment and greater dynamic, if that makes any sense. I'm tired of the TRUE villains getting away with monstrous behaviour, both online and off whilst presenting as SJWs or other butter-wouldn't-melt type. It's very sophisticated behaviour increasingly supported by a greater social superstructure and I find it all despicable. Big Tech, our cultural intelligentsia and even our legal system here in the West just goes after all the wrong people, all the wrong cultural and social mechanisms and it's infuriating to behold the circus of injustice and nepotism.
Yes I agree that it is never good or bad. It's always so much more complex than that which is why making decisions and coming to conclusions often takes a bit of time...at least for me.
@@britingermany I think you've got what's known as a 'winning personality'. You'll be just fine, if what I've read and heard so far is anything to go by. Please keep posting here, I love being open to considering everything you share so generously and candidly. 💖
Very well said thank you
Though depending on ones own personality, I think the work environment and especially the social work climate is the single most important thing which qualifies as a do or drop mark for any job. In my opinion at least it is far easier to stay in a job where your wages is not optimal but the boss and co-workers are great and social people, establishing a real team spirit, than having to work in an environment, where you earn a ton of money but you get emotionally and psychologically traumatized (e.g. bullied) day in, day out. Realizing that you are bound to crumble under such circumstances and mustering the strength and courage to leave is no small feat! In the end, what are you working for? Money? Yea, money is nice, but you surely won't like to have nothing from it, because you are mentally broken, right? In the end your job is not your life and your life is what counts. No money in the world is worth it to end up as a well situated (or even filthy rich) but deeply depressed and brolen person.
Well done, my friend! It takes a lot of strenght and courage to walk out of a situation where you cannot win!
That is exactly the conclusion that I came to. Money was of course a factor that I considered but at the end of the day what you said is exactly right. It's useless if you are too broken to use it.
I had a manager many years ago who was just like this.
It was one of my first jobs in a shop, and this witch was very good at pretending to be a nice person, but at least once a week she would have members off staff in tears over some trivial matter, and at the same time would have convinced the same members of staff that she was in fact their best friend.
She tried it with me making personal remarks, but I saw straight through her game and left because of it. I have seen this kind of thing a few times in retail or office management. It seems to attract mediocre individuals who like to wield power maliciously in a small environment where they can be king or queen.
I do wonder if they are consciously aware of what they are doing or if they just don’t realise what effect they are having….
@@britingermany They must be aware. They likely justify it to themselves somehow but there are just some horrible people out there unfortunately.
Wow. Old feelings and fears come back to me. I went through the same hell 15 years ago. I was lucky enough to be able to talk to old colleagues at a Christmas market meeting and get a tip about vacancies in the company that exactly matched my profile. I used a short vacation for a job interview and liked it. Since the works council in the receiving company had to approve this, I asked the new manager to keep quiet until the final decision was made. I had noticed how the psychopathic manager of a colleague used her connections on the board and local works council to thwart his attempt to apply for a job. In the case of the colleague, corporate HR simply withdrew the job advertisement, even though the receiving works council had already approved it. I was lucky that my works council met in the last week of the year and I had the written confirmation of the new employment contract in my hands on the first working day of the new year. My boss literally threw her face backwards when I informed her the next day that I was leaving the next week.
Thanks for sharing! I, too, think to leave such a situation is taking back control, empowering yourself and therefore not “weak”. I hope very much that the other team members left as well or are leaving in the coming years. Maybe an extremely high turnover can make HR and the upper echelons see that she is not a good manager / head of a team and reassign her.
Thanks for watching. Yes I believe things have changed there now
I'm so sorry you got caught up in this person's sinister games. I grew up in a family system like the one you encountered at work. Knowledge is key to move on. For anyone interested, I have the following book recommendations: Snakes in Suits by Robert Hare, Ph.D. and Paul Babiak, Ph.D., Without Conscience by Robert Hare, Ph.D., and The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, Ph.D.
Thanks a lot for your recommendations. I can only imagine what it must be like to grow up with that. All the best
Can co-recommend all 3 :)
The description of the person suggests they were a psychopath not a sociopath.
Glad you survived and have perspective.
Thank you for taking the time to share your insights and wisdom with others.
Thanks for watching 🙏
I've worked with (I suspect) both a sociopath and psychopath. The main difference seems to be that the sociopath actually feels emotion, if weakly. He actually cared about some people even if the relationships end up being transient. The psychopath on the other hand was more like an emotional abyss; nothing really fazed him and it was only his lazyness and visible contempt for others which stopped him from climbing the corporate ladder.
@@loc4725 Yes, sociopaths basically dislike people in general, but they will be close to their nearest and dearest. A psychopath, on the other hand, would sell his grandmother if the price was good enough.
@@tancreddehauteville764 You're just making stuff up now. Psychology as a practice doesn't even have a diagnosis or definition for "psychopathy", and outside of a few quacks writing pop-culture books on the subject, there is no evidence that it even exists.
@@loc4725 That's not true according to current research. Current beliefs are that psychopaths have control over their empathy, that they can switch it on and off as needed.
Your soft spoken honesty is one of greatest attractions. I highlight one point from the first minute of your presentation where you said something about “not being sure”. Simply try to never ignore your “gut instinct”. If something feels “wrong”, then it most likely is. Your gut instinct is protective. Look after yourself.
I speak from similar experience within the Australian public health hospital system where directors and managers were also sociopathic.
Thanks a lot and I agree. The head often takes over.
I’m in Australia too and had this sort of experience with the managers in the public education system … disgusting.
Thank you for this. As you say, sociopaths are almost primed to fulfill leadership positions and they are frighteningly good at manipulating the people who would have the power to fire them.
There's a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. As far as feeling not strong enough to stand up to them, the problem is asymmetrical warfare and their inherent ability to take it to the next level without compunction, whereas it would literally traumatise the rest of us. In order to stand up to them, you have to be essentially an expert in tactics and strategy with a robust capacity to avoid the traumatic assault on the senses. Barely anyone can do it, and most need to be able to recognise the signs early so that they can extricate themselves ASAP or isolate themselves and reduce contact if at all possible. The only way we can win is to learn as much as we can about their modus operandi, character traits and tactics and strategies and learn how to identify them ASAP like they do their victims, and don't be swayed by normies who will deny it when you tell them who you're all dealing with. You may only be able to save yourself....
Yes. The hardest thing was that it was no clear cut. Sometimes I got on with her very well and she seemed perfectly rational and empathetic and at other times it was the complete opposite.
This is true in far more than just the corporate and business world.
I worked for a sociopathic couple in a previous academic post. They did everything you described, and I worked for them for 2 years before finally telling them exactly how horrible they were and leaving.
I spent most of my time helping the PhD students who were all being bullied, harrassed, overworked, and generally abused. Much like your case the sociopathic couple would pit the students against eachother and gaslight them into believing falsehoods. They didn't have the luxury of leaving like I did.
Since then myself and another academic have been smuggling the remaining students out and getting them postings elsewhere as much as we can.
I have also been sharing the incriminating emails, meeting records, and personal text messages sent to me and others from the couple with their collaborators.
It takes more than just leaving. To root these people out they need to be actively shown as the villains that they are to their contemporaries.
I have worked with a psychopath as the colleague i have most interaction with and sitting right next to me in the office for 10 years now. He thinks he is never wrong (even tough i point out his mistakes all the time), he claims he has never been in sick leave (even tough i have seen him be on sick leave many times during this 10 years), and when things are not going his way or his mistakes is obvious for everyone to see he burst out in rage tantrums screaming at people and blaming everyone but him self for the problems he has caused. And he has absolutely no idea of peoples personal space, being a couple of centimeters away from your face when he is talking to you. And talking badly about everyone else behind their back (probably about me too, but i just hear him talking badly about other people to me behind their back).
Most people is just playing along with him so they avoid one of his rage tantrums directed at them.
A few years ago he was the leader of the department i was in for about 6 months, but he could not handle dealing with the people under him at all so he went back to just being a normal engineer again like me after 6 months.
I read an interesting idea recently: psychopaths are about the destination, sociopaths are all about the journey. Made me think
Ok that is interesting…well I don’t think there was a destination in what I experienced
Been there, done that, nearly died. Fortunately the end result was that only last year 9 people quit. That’s about 40% of the team. My team was always wonderful and resilient despite inhumane pace and requirements, but enough is enough.
People like the gal described I this video are why a small indescreet body cam is on my list of things to incorporate in my wardrobe.
As ALWAYS a very good video - thank so much for posting it! Toward the end of the video, you stated that you "weren't strong enough" to deal with your sociopathic boss. Short, sweet and really brutally put: the fool proof personality trait when you have to deal with a sociopath is probably being a sociopath yourself. Which you so obviously are not. Kudos to you for leaving the mindbogglingly toxic situation. You saved yourself from a nervous breakdown, and you chose to share your experience, thoughts and advice out here in the ether. Congratulations on your humanity and courage!
Thank you for your kind words. That means a lot 🙏
Yes, this heavily traumatized and destroyed my trust after working 20 years in the corporate world. And the higher you went up the ladder the worse it got. Pure evil Thank you for reminding me
i used to work for a guy who ripped off his customers, bullied his staff, and never ever did a straight deal in his life --- it was all one way rip offs all the time. For months, I was in my early twenties, this prick used to harass me daily by putting me under huge amounts of pressure, then if I made one mistake he'd go into these rages that were childish, irrational, and outright insulting; I was a nervous wreck. This was all day every day, and I used to watch him do the nice guy act to his customers, to people the prick helped with his charity work, and other people he met on a superficial basis: he was classic sociopath! Now, I'm pretty tough guy, boxed for years, martial arts my whole life, that kind of thing; but I was putting up with this prick's shit because I didn't wanta lose my job, and he knew it; eventually, I got so sick of this bully I threatened to beat him to a pulp while in a van with him after he went into one his rages and he knew I was serious; I think the slimy b"stard also knew he'd be badly hurt so he laughed and spent the ride home telling me how much he respected me, my intelligence --- it was superficial but the prick was on edge so he had a rat-like survival strategy to get himself out of it. Anyways, did he stop? For a week, yes! He just doubled down, however, on his other staff while giving me the silent treatment --- then I was replaced! I see the guy now and again walking around, if I'm with someone he is so manipulative the other dude walks away saying what a nice person he is; I don't even bother to correct them. I dislike the sociopathic personality more than you could ever imagine, I might be on the borderlands of having something wrong with me myself, but I do feel for people who come into contact with these types of people; the only advice I can say is never go on appearances with anyone, TRUST is for idiots!
Thank you for this video, I really needed to hear this tonight. I walked away from a toxic work environment. acouple of weeks ago and have beating myself up abouit it ever since. Essentially, blaming it on me and not being "tough enough". However, given this company's rapid turnover rate of staff I have rationalised that it wasn't just me and I'm just not so good at clocking thes kinds of situations as I thought. Wishing you all the best from Prague with whatever you do next!
So glad I reached you and we’ll done for walking away. It feels like failure in the moment but given time it will seem like the best decision you ever made. Good luck with your new start👍🏻
Thank you :)@@britingermany
I am so sorry that you have had to live through this harrowing experience. Thankfully, it is behind you now. Under no circumstances should you beat yourself up about leaving there. You did the right thing. Life is far too short to put up with such intolerable behaviour. Don’t look back; instead, look forward! Look forward to the bright future which awaits you! 👍🏻
Beautiful words my dear, and my exact sentiment 😀
@@britingermany 🌹
This is so common in healthcare, ‘nurses eat their young’ goes the saying and it drives people to suicide. I was suicidal working in a care home due to a few different bullies, it was all trickling down from the top (the only thing that trickles down is shit, money doesn’t do that, really)
I’m sorry you went through this. It sounds way more extreme than my experience. All I can say is that a change of environment can change everything. I wish you all the best 🙏
I think I worked with a sociopath but they really liked me so I never saw that side of them. Which made the whole thing even weirder because _everyone_ kept telling me how horrendous this person was and I never saw any evidence of her being anything other than a delight to work for. I left for a new job which had several other people who had worked with her in previous jobs (not in the same place or same time) and they _all_ said the same things about her. It made me worry I was some kind of sociopath or something! Kind of scary as they must all be telling the truth but for some reason I saw zero evidence of it. She never told me anything negative about anyone else or said that anyone said anything negative about me but I guess she is just very good at being a sociopath. I wasn't even in a position which could help her in any way, so no idea why she was always so lovely to me.
We’ll I would just count yourself lucky 😀
@@isaT I'm gay though and she knew I was gay, but maybe she just liked me for some weird reason
Hi Ben,
I came across a statement from a friend a while ago who explained the following in German: "Menschen kommen wegen dem Job, gehen aber wegen dem Management. (People come for the job, but leave for the management.)" That's unfortunately too often the reality.
Yes. We have a similar sentiment in English as well
I left my sociopathic boss 3 years ago. Quitting was NOT a failure. My actual failure was that I should have left way earlier...
Thank you for sharing this!
I am sorry you had to go through all of this.
But as the saying goes: "What does not kill us makes us stronger", I have a feeling you came out of this situation on top.
Actually on top of your former boss.
I hope some of the other employees can learn from your example.
I have no idea if you still are in contact (with the other employees), and you should not disclose this in front of us; especially in case your former boss knows about your TH-cam-Channel, in which case another round of gaslighting will be dished out by her, I presume.
Again, thanks for sharing your story.
I think you are braver then you think you are. :)
sociopathy is usually followed with addictions,
so good luck to those who consciously employs an sociopath, they'll need it
Wow, you have my utmost respect!!
Greetings from an Austrian, who just wanted to improve her English with your channel and found a genuine great human heart and mind.
How you dealt with this situation… Wish I had this courage, such situations can be destroying…
Keep it up & thank you!
Thank you and hopefully you can improve your English at the same time 😀
I had a teacher in sixth form (English high school) like that! Appeared very put-together-well-dressed, athletic, social, smart. Also like your boss, she had a tendency towards berating people in public. One-on-one she would be alright usually, but once she had an audience, she would choose one person to put down. (E.g. once, when I was brand new to the country and to A-levels, I was really nervous and accidentally broke a test tube. I went to get the dustpan and brush and didn’t notice they were attached to each other by a single rope, I thought the rope attached the tools to the wall. So I spent 5 minutes struggling to untie it while holding back tears. She just watched me those 5 minutes and eventually told me that I didn’t need to untie the rope, in a tone of vague amusement and condescension. I already felt self-conscious and that just made me feel judged.)
If a student hit some stumbling block in learning, she would usually point out where they went wrong, but not in an effort to get them to improve, more in a condescending way. (E.g. my folder for her subject was admittedly a mess. She asked me to show it to her, and just pointed out how messy it was, how I was organising it the wrong way, saying I was lazy and not serious about my work. I’ve always valued my education-I am currently finishing a master’s-i just happened to have undiagnosed ADHD.)
It just struck me how this person who seemed relatively successful and well-rounded had a massive disconnect from usual human emotions like empathy, compassion, and sympathy. I wonder if she realises this, or if she thinks she’s ‘normal’. The way she treated me brought me to tears on several occasions, made me doubt my self-worth, and made me give up on studying science.
It's amazing how much influence teachers have. I have several friends who ended up having their careers because a teacher told them they were suited to this or that particular field 8that#s the positive example) it can of course go in the other direction. But ultimately it's up to us to know ourselves best. Sometimes others can help with that but other times it's just confusing. Don't let it get to you. 😀
this comment was just my expeirence and doesn't intend to imply it's neccersarily relevant to you just thought I say that up front! But yeah I had undiagnosed adhd and for along time I felt like I was stupid and had low self worth because people had said this to me on account of my adhd effecting my academics. Which on a certain metric it felt like they were right. I was bad at school lol. And i'd often just not conform to acting or performing in the same way as others. And yet I always was conflicted because I knew I was smart which was confusing. I know that I read more advanced books than the other students for example. LAter on I realised that I am an idiot and genius at the same time. I think everyone is to an extent. Genuinely my brain will drop the ball often. But I also have certain cognitive traits which are alot stronger than others I think. I think a common trait with adhd is to considr all possibilities. Certainly I feel I ahve this and I think I have very strong critical thinking becuase of this more dialogical way of thinking. So anyway later on now in my late 20s and having very belatedly being diagnosed as having adhd I'm just finishing a bachelor's of computer science. Back in school I just couldn't do maths. There was some maths in my studies which I was now fine with. I see now the environment wasn't condusive to me being able to succeed. But yes I still remember someone saying as we walked to class 'at least I won't be the dumbest in the class.' At the time it's devastating. It still hurts because it was hurtful. But I now at least can overlay that experience with the truth that firstly this wasn't really true and secondly I don't care if it infact was too. Because I know now that intelligence is cirumstantial to the envrionment and often the emphasis on hyper-lexic intillgence results in over looking many forms in intiligence. These days if someone calls me dumb or an idiot I genuinely cannot be offended. I love learning things and not to toot my own horn too much but am one of the most curious people I know. It sounds like you actually know that you're also very intilligent. In a sense the person who was mean to you sounds like quite a sad person. I do wander if such sociopathic people ever feel something is not quite right. I assume they lack the ability to appreiciate things and understand or contemplate life in a meaingful way. And probably they trying to deflect negative attention away from themsleves for what infact might be some deep insecurity as converse as it may seem on the outside. Anyway sorry you probably didn't ask for that much of an opinion :/ sorry it that's just total babble what I wrote.
But do what you want don't care waht other people think. Anyone who chooses to be mean has never had anything worth paying any attention too.
Don't get mad, get even. As the Hulk likes to say: "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
"Initially, I was not crazy about the idea". So important to trust your intuition!
Not sure how useful this is when our instincts are often wrong.
@@eadweard. But I said intuition, not instinct... I think they're quite different? There's an element of insight or wisdom to intuition. Instinct is more reactive, thoughtless. Anyway, I only wrote that because I had a similar experience with a boss, something in me said "no" as soon as I met her, but then the rationalisation process kicked in, very similar to that described in the video. But that doubt was always there. I think sometimes we just know when something isn't right.
Yes I think you have a point. Looking back it was a disaster from day one. Not just with her but the company in general. But I could only realise that with hindsight. At the time it was just a feeling that I didn't understand. But I'll be looking out for it in the future
@@britingermany kinda hard to avoid these types if you're desperate for work, haha. But if you're in the position of being able to choose, then yes, walk away if it feels off. Same goes for all relationships. Although I think we can be a bit perverse, sometimes it feels like a test or challenge that we have to go through! 😂 (p.s. thanks for sharing, really good to shine a light on this. As you can tell from the comments it's far too prevalent in the working world!)
You were holding so much in that team, don’t underestimate how much good you did while you were there. Your presence and awareness of reality, of this disconnect in this pathological individual, will have unconsciously created a sense of safety for others. You set the ultimate example of self care when you walked away, knowing you could not give anymore without permanently damaging yourself. This story is so human and compassionate. Your take away from the experience, which it took time to process and land, is on the money too, you were far from weak, you were incredibly strong. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for your kind words. That means a lot🙏
Thank you for your story. I worked for someone who is every similar to your former employer. I left after enduring a lot abuse and I also struggled with the idea of quitting, it really ate me up. But you're right when you say that you have to rewrite the story. Like you I had to walk away from an abusive work place for my own sake.
Well done! And I wish you all the best for the next step 😀
Thank you for sharing this. I think having these conversations more openly and more often can bring about change. You did the absolute right thing by leaving. That is not a quitting, in my opinion it's winning by setting a personal boundary and saying no to being in a toxic environment. There are many great work environments out there and I am sure as you start another endeavour you will look back and think that it was the right thing to do.
Thank you for your kind words. I think many of us do find it difficult to set boundaries. Everyone has to do it in their own way
You were not weaker you are just a more empathic nicer person, I think I stayed in this situation as at first I knew I couldn't quite believe how horrible my boss really was they played mind games one minute,, and pitted people against each other to see the infighting and disunity among the team and then changed being so nice , also I have an autoimmune disease so they knew it would be difficult for me to change employment . In the end I opted for sanity, being poorer and having peace in my life , I never regretted it. PS sociopaths love empaths they feed on them I used to feel my boss would enjoy pulling the wings off of butterflies.
That is very nasty! So glad you took that decision, same for me!
Good morning! Always take care of yourself….Dealing with psycho co-workers is exhausting.
Good morning and thank you Amanda :.)
Good on you for your efforts and for courage to walk away.
I have had to deal with a new grandiose narcissistic neighbour . If I had not seen this pathology in action I would never have believed it.
The only blessing is a compassion for all faced with similar difficult situations. They are not on a normal spectrum.
There are no winners. Even the disordered ones.
Really wishing you well with future endeavours.
This is very interesting, I'll be on the lookout for this.
These tactics coming from higher ups are very difficult to deal with as they hold the power.
I have been using a "tactic" of "you hired me for my expertise, I will be giving you what I think is best without fear". This tends to cut through SOME bs and the person of authority doesn't have complete control and yes men around them.
Also I have observed people who are bad at their jobs sometimes resort to these political plays. In one case I observed an individual who ONLY did political plays and that was interesting. So much energy invested into it where if they focussed that effort on their jobs they wouldn't need to be so political.
"...working for a sociopath" . So basically everyone
Thank you for sharing, there is simplicity and clarity in the way you present such a grueling story of abuse.
I am a surviving, but ostracized whistleblower against 2 different major nonprofit networks i worked for 2019-2020. The toxic ideology and culture of lies between both were very different from each other in some ways, yet shared similarities in the depravity and denial of people's humanity. I faced a culture that required and threatened everyone into submission to a racist and sexist ideology. This resulted in a caste system where people used their inbuilt traits as a weapon against those of us with the wrong traits.
I've never been silent. It's impossible for me to hide. I chose to keep anything taboo about my private life to myself, and to otherwise be authentic and focused on the work: youth empowerment.
I can't ever again be that silent and censored from setting basic boundaries. I'm not usually like that. And doing it for a year destroyed me, I've been so traumatized, close to homelessness and death for 2 years. I'm finally coming back to life now. What i have learned in all of it, is that you get molded to the abuse and the narrative. The feeling of it all. The environment. And once you break out of the mold, you have the chance to change, to heal- if you accept breakdown. Death of the old; there is ALWAYS new life.
"a culture that required and threatened everyone into submission to a racist and sexist ideology" - The charitable sector has been decimated by this stuff. The sociopath is attracted to the identity politics approach because it exploits compassion. And they are drawn like a magnet, because cloaking themselves in being "the most compassionate" or "the most victimised" or "the most in pain" is the perfect cover for cluster B personality.
I feel like people are walking around like little lambs, totally oblivious to how sociopathy functions. They WILL be attracted to these professions, they WILL exploit people's desire to be compassionate and caring. It is very perverse.
The podcast "Blocked and Reported" has an episode on this (Episode 176: Robin DiAngelo) where the dynamics at play during struggle sessions completely unmasks the sociopathic nature of these group dynamics with the leader who cannot be challenged. The charitable sector is undergoing self-immolation as a result of these struggle sessions, where as you say, it sets up "a caste system where people used their inbuilt traits as a weapon against those of us with the wrong traits". Some of the most compassionate people who are in these professions, being preyed on by utter psychos.
Wow thank you so much for sharing and being so open and raw. I am very glad to hear you are now coming back to life. It takes time to heal from these experiences. I wish you all the best for the next chapter.
I worked for a psychopath as well. He lied about being a college grad, about being an engineer. He would demand my help and insult me while I helped him, and the problem was usually his fault due to his shocking incompetence.
You did the best thing possible to quit and walk away. That takes STRENGTH and courage. You need to congratulate yourself.
Thanks a lot. I'm getting there
Over the years I have worked with / known several snakes like the woman you described. Fortunately in a business environment you can simply chose to leave. But unfortunately when its a romantic relationship, it can be harder to cut the ties and the damage they inflict can be life long lasting. 😢
It’s emotionally exhausting to deal with people like this, and the corporate culture can reward the behavior, promoting the charming manipulators into positions of power. They don’t get better, you can’t communicate the issues away or strategize them away because a personality disorder is a deep deep issue that would require years of therapy, or brutal life lessons, to change. You can only either determine to oust the problem, or walk away. If you’re determined to oust them, you will have to document every single interaction, cross reference every incident with colleagues, get management involved and possibly, be willing to be the target of that person. You have to be strategic, all while also doing your job, and attempting to maintain a healthy work-life balance. For some people, as you witnessed, it’s harder to resist or avoid the mind fuckery. These people are dangerous, glad you got out. Many people will encounter this and have no idea what they’re looking at.❤
The first encounter with someone like this is confusing. I don't know if experience helps with dealing with them, but identifying them is easier.
Yes…to be honest I new something was wrong right from the start but decided to go along with it and see what happens. I won’t be doing that next time
Thank you so much for sharing. I experienced a similar situation and it took me too long to walk away, I finally did but it was at the cost. I needed almost a year to recover abd get my health back. I’m very happy for you that you walked away. I know how hard it is. To everyone there struggling and being stuck in a similar situation at work, sending you hugs and support. It’s not easy but it gets better once you are no longer a part of this toxic environment.
Thanks so much and so glad you’ve recovered from it. The most important thing is what we learn from these experiences. All the best for you 🙏
Sociopath's will eventually ruin the workplace and in the end the company itself.. always.. even though in the short term they might seem like a good person for a manager position.
Not sure if sociopath or "just" a narcissist but my then-boss 5-6 years ago wanted me (an experienced employee more or less familiar with my managers' paperworks) to "report" on managers above me and below her if their paperwork wasn't done correctly (this was on her 2nd day with us, so good start...). She could have easily checked these things herself.
She brought another employee to us who seemed kind of fake but friendly and all I could think of after her request was "what if this employee is reporting to her about us, or me...". A year later that same new employee was about to be promoted so I might have been on point.
My boss would openly berate people for things that weren't their fault. She'd promise things and then later deny she ever made those promises. If she picked on you there was no way of you staying.
She picked on one of the managers who was a good guy and asked me questions about him that made me clear: she wants to frame him for something, anything.
She'd lie constantly and once people knew her enough they started leaving. ONLY when our lack of employees affected our profits (meaning: we had to close for certain time periods, figuratively leaving money on the table) did the area manager actually demoted her and moved her somewhere else.
Wow, you have just described a few situations I've also found myself in. You're a very receptive person. Very brave of you to speak up and I really hope you find a great team to work with. You didn't do anything wrong in walking away. You know your boundaries and what you are willing to put up with. That is not weak. That takes courage and strength. You can never change these people. They will bring you down so it's best to walk away. That is what I have done. Have a lovely weekend, Ben!
Thanks a lot Charlie. Same to you 😀
There are many psychopaths working in HR. As a sensitive, intuitive and empathic person, I get destroyed by the 'workplace', so i have to work alone.
I know what you mean and It's great that you've managed to find a way of working alone.
Just want to add my voice of support to the many others in this comment section.
I ruined my career by helping a borderline sociopath start a company and supported him and the company for years and years. As you have described, being put in impossible situations, manipulated and undermined by a skillful, and subtle individual is something that takes a long time to understand. Like you, I felt a great deal of failure when I left, as if I had let them down! My god! In hindsight, it has taken a long long time to rebuild and come to terms with how damaging some people can be
My sincerest best wishes for you in the future
It’s a toughie isn’t it. But it sounds like you come out the other side of it in one piece. Well done!
Thank you for sharing your experience and the lessons you learned. Hope you are in a better place now. I can relate to all you said experiencing now the struggle to overcome the manifold negative repercussions of working in a toxic workplace and with sociopaths for managers.
Wishing you all the best in the future.
Thank you for sharing your story. I’m glad you kept your head about you. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Thank you for sharing your experience clearly and plainly. I particularly appreciate how you have chosen to walk away, recognize that it takes courage and, more importantly, that you have extended your compassion (in the Buddhist meaning of the word) to yourself. It's one of the most precious lessons that the scorching encounter with a sociopath put one in the position to learn.
Thanks so much for your kind words. It’s definitely an experience which taught me a lot
Good morning Ben!
That's a serious matter and I'm very grateful for that video. I think it's a matter which very often gets shoved aside by a technocratic understanding of professionalism. It seems to me that concepts like business culture or soft skills tend to fail when patterns of behaviour are evolving which are just pathologic.
Morning Michael. Yes building culture is not so easy but I do think it's the most important factor when it comes to job satisfaction. I think this is gaining more attention but there is still a long way to go