If it’s still in her name. Report it stolen! Go after the dealership with a good lawyer. The police should arrest the dealer for stealing it and selling it.
Problem with that is that the person it was sold to is innocent. They are also victims and could pay a terrible price if pulled over and arrested. They would have an undue arrest on their record.
Requisite IANAL. Arrest whom? Need a responsible party. The correct approach would be search warrants and subpoenas I would think. Then, GTA if criminal intent is found, asset forfeiture / damages and fines if criminal intent is not found
@@williamsteveling8321 The owner of the Dealership that stole and sold a car. Since they did not indicate a 3rd party or unauthorized person stole it from their lot, they are 100% liable for this.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I would think they would need to arrest the dealer listed on the paperwork. It could be argued that the owner might not have known what was happening. You sue the owner.
Receiving stolen property, except for it to stick the recipient would have to be aware of the fact that the dealer had appropriated it illegally. I'm certain the new "owner" would also have cause to sue the dealership.😊
The woman bought a $5000 car and had to finance the purchase. She also bought a $900 12 month extended warranty. The dealership played the odds that this poor, ignorant woman would not be able to hire an attorney, but they forgot about the local news who do not charge people to help.
@@mikeschneider5077 I hope you realize that there are situations where the person experiencing injustice is an actual victim and not a "crisis actor". Also that you having incomplete information doesn't allow you to speculate about motivation, timelines, information not given, the situation *or anything else*.
They sell her a $2500 car for $5900 with waranty, Don't honor warranty, Keep her over 2k she's paid, and sell car again.... Nothing to see here. I'm embarrased for them, This is a scummy as it gets.
I've seen a lot of Buy here Pay here lots who get a down payment that is pretty much what the car would sell for in a private sale. All the payments are pure gravy. No way to lose in that business model
That's fairly common for cars that were being sold to subprime borrowers. They'd sell the car, wait for the payments to stop and then repo the car and repeat it until the car wouldn't be sold again. It's extremely profitable and probably ought to be illegal.
@@dennissvitak5475The concern is the dealers know the buyers will eventually default, it’s predatory and doesn’t add anything to society or the wider economy
In the early 80's a friend of my father was at a car dealer negotiating on a new car with a trade in. While he was negotiating a salesman was selling his car to someone. He happened to walk out to get some papers from the car and saw this going on. He asked the buyer how much the dealer was asking, cancelled the new car deal, sold the car to the buyer for less than the dealer was asking but more than the dealer was paying. He went somewhere else to purchase a new car.
Happened to me, negotiated a price, filled out the paperwork, they wanted my car as a trade in but lowballed me so I said I would keep it and suddenly the car I was buying was " just sold to someone over the phone, can't sell it to you". Left that dealer and purchased a car from another dealer.
I got thrown out of a local used car dealer for something similar. I was trying to get a price on a F350 diesel they had on the lot and they kept stonewalling me. Little did I know there was some woman interested in my truck. She finally walked in and asked me if it was mine and what I wanted for it. Before I could even speak we were both being told to leave. Funny enough, later that afternoon I got a call from the sales rep I had dealt with on the F350 and he wanted to give me a price on the truck.
The dealership - Cherokee Auto Sales Knoxville - responded on their Facebook page; they seem to be claiming that if you ask for repairs to be covered under warranty, but the warranty has already expired, that means you have broken some sort of contract and that means they can sell your car. In other words, a bunch of BS.
I had a situation where I took the car to a dealership for an oil change (car was a few years old and covered with an extended warranty from that same dealership where I bought it new). After the oil change, start the car, and immediately the "check engine light comes on" before leaving their parking lot. Turn around and dealership wants a day to figure out what is wrong. Next day they say car needs a couple thousand dollars in repairs and rattles out a list of things: I said: "great!, I bought your extended warranty so I want you to fix everything you just said is wrong with the car!" They start backpedaling real quick and said they'd call me back. In less than an hour they call back and say "car is ready for pick up", lol. I ask what about the thousands in repairs you said were needed? The tech doing the oil change had disconnected a vacuum hose which caused the CEL. Scammy dealerships.
I once bought a new car and part of the promotion was getting a free detailing six months later. So I bring it in for the detailing and I decide to just hang out. I knew it would be a couple of hours. I had nothing better to do than sit in the air conditioned waiting room eating free popcorn and reading my book. Three hours later, I just wanted to know how far on the list I was. They said they had no record of me coming in. The guy I handed my keys to seem to not remember me getting the receipt for the estimate stating why I was there and the promotion with $0. I show it to him & the manager. After they accused me of printing it myself, I called the police from their phone. They had decided that someone took the car after they were done and thought I was the one who took it. The police come, the information is taken. The service representative says the same thing he said to me in the beginning. "We have no record of him bringing it in." I show the officer my receipt, and its got the time on it. The police ask if their security cameras work and record. They do, they watch me bring in my car and sign a page on a clip board and hand the keys over, and then some kid drives away with my car. "Who's that?" the police ask. "That's the detail guy." "Where is he?" ... crickets. The police ask if they could look around the place and the manager says yes. My car isn't there. The police officer and I spent 2 hours dealing with this. So they want to know the name and address of their employee. That's the last person to be seen with the car. The manager is visibly furious. The service representative seem nervous like he knows something. As the manager is pulling up his information and the police officer is writing all this down, suddenly the service manager has found my car. The service manager drives it up like it was just sitting in the back where we had already examined and it surly wasn't in the back. The representative says it was parked next door at the strip mall in front of the cell phone store. He says they sometimes use that parking lot like an overflow. The police officer looked at my receipt and the odometer and tells me my car has been driven 6 miles since that morning. There was no damage and it was detailed and fueled up. I didn't press charges, but how could you not only lose a car but and entire customer? My theory is they hadn't done the detail at all, the kid took it off site to have a detail done. They didn't expect me to sit there all day. And, apparently lost their copy of the paperwork. Incompetence all the way down. This was a GM dealership and I never went back. We've got GM dealerships in every town near by.
Former TN dealer here, I suspect that the dealership financed the car and is therefore the lien holder on the title. In TN that means they have the title in their possession. They simply fill out a repossession form and can resale the car and get a new title. Obviously they broke the law since the buyer had not given them any reason to repossess the car. Also, in order to claim abandonment they would have to hold the car for 30 days, send certified mail to the owner and file paperwork with the state to obtain a new title. It’s a slam dunk case for the owner of the car. The dealer screwed up, they need to settle with the owner. Edit: It is possible that they sold it to a salvage yard either with the title or without if the car was more than 12 years old. A salvage yard would not register the car for tags so the state would not know it was not still in her possession thus the letter she got regarding lack of liability insurance.
She probably paid off the loan and the buy here pay here dealer "accidentally" didn't release the lien. To compound things, BHPH lots repo a lot of cars when the buyer misses a payment, so some sales guy assumed the car was repossessed. And we all know what happens when you assume.
@@curtmeister24exactly this. These scam places are used to doing as they please. They thought that ignoring this lady would have no consequences because she is poor.
If she's financing a $5,900 car I have a feeling she's also using an insurance company with a cartoon as their spokesperson so it's not going to cover much. However even if it were one of the big insurance companies I doubt this would fall under her insurance policy.
Her insurance company will require a police report. And the police report would state this is a civil matter with the dealership and not grand theft. The insurance company would then dismiss the claim and cancel the insurance on the vehicle.
The dealer is absolutely responsible for replacing the vehicle with something of equal value. She also needs to report the vehicle as stolen by the dealership.
If I steal a car the cops will arrest me and put me in jail. If a car dealership steals a car the cops will say it's a civil matter and say there's nothing they can do.
@@Strideo1 stealing a car is considered a felony in most states, selling said car is another felony. So its not a civil matter, the cop would have to document and follow the rules as far as any other stolen care case. They cant just say its a civil matter because it isnt. Ther person who purchased the car would be in posession of a stolen vehicle, which is a crime. Dont know if its a felony because in this case they wouldnt have known it was stolen. Even still when cops came across them it would have to be confiscated.
@@zeroch1ll150 You can't force the police to do anything if they don't want to regardless of if you disagree. It's the same as when trespassers enter a home and claim they have a lease and the owners call the cops and instead of arresting the trespassers the cops say it's a civil matter and to take the squatters to court.
In the late 60's an airman from the local base went to local Ford dealership. He parked his car, met a salesman, looked at several cars, decided to wait. He returned to his car only to find someone sitting in it . The person was told to wait in the car, sales would bring the keys so he could test drive. The airman had a hell of a time getting his car back. Explaining what happened when he returned to the base,the Commander put the car dealer off limits to all military personnel. Seems like nothing is really new......RF
We had a federal case in our hands that was going to be the most awesome blast to file suit against the state of Arizona. Then the State settled and we were SO disappointed! 😂
Dealership committed both theft from her and fraud when they "sold" it. Both she and the person the dealership scammed should be suing them big time. And the state should be investigating possible criminal violations.
What I'm wondering about is... Who "buys" a car from a dealership and then is just okay with not getting the title, not registering it, apparently not getting insurance etc... In my country it gets covered in driving school how you properly purchase a car and what you do with a car between purchase and starting to drive it. And driving without insurance is a felony.
@@jeremydale4548Not in Tennessee sadly. Since she dropped it off it's now a civil matter. If you order a hamburger in Tennessee and pay for it and they just hand you a bun with a little dab of mustard, miniature piece of lettuce and tomato that's not stealing and is a civil matter according to the cops. If you call the cops and try and get your money back and the same manager that made your burger without a burger patty on it wants you trespassed, then she can have you trespassed for having the nerve to demand a burger patty on your hamburger. Morristown Tennessee police will say it's a civil matter because she didn't take it out of your pocket it isn't stealing. Then they trespass you for life.
This reminds me of that Texas dealership that sold a woman’s C8 corvette she ordered from the factory when it was delivered for pick up. They got in major hot water.
If I was a judge and this came across my desk, the victim would get the car back, the loan would be paid in full by the dealer, the person they sold the car to would be awarded double the value of the car, and the dealer's business license would be revoked. Punishment must be severe enough to prevent reoffending.
I don't understand how this is a civil case. If I stole a car from the dealership it would be criminal, why isn't the dealership employee not criminally charged for this?
@@jessicasharp9886 I understand the logic but the law doesn’t work on logic it works on how laws are written. Steve explains why it’s not theft and that there is a legal term for what happened. He said it’s called conversion.
@@whydotheytry7940The reason being: businesses pay for the election of our politicians so they can have them write exclusions into the law for the crimes they commit. Yay corruption.
@@DellikkilleDShe would have been out a car either way. The only thing that really changes in this situation is that she has a reason for lost wages and she'll have to attend some court hearings. Hell, she could probably get a GoFundMe set up and have a car by the end of the week with how viral this story went.
No way. If this happened to me, I'd do the court fight. But I'd rather have the busted car and financial problems. Unless it settles, she has years of stress coming. Car maintenance when you're broke happens all the time, and it doesn't ruin multiple years.
I would think this would constitute "Grand Theft Auto" if they sold a car they didn't own. That makes it a criminal offence not a civil one so the local DA should take action.
Had a similar situation a few years ago. My wife's best friend has a roommate who bought a used car from a dealership near where they live in N Richland Hills TX. A day after he brought the car home his phone started blowing up from the dealership. They kept telling him there was a problem with the car and that they needed him yo bring it back in (making it sound like there was a mechanical issue). He told them the car was running fine but the kept hounding him. So he went back to the dealership the next day. After some extensive back and forth with the dealership they finally fessed up and told him that the car they sold him belonged to a customer who had brought it in for repair. They convinced him to return the car in exchange for a sweetheart deal on another one. I don't know what they told the folks who originally brought it in.
I'm a little better versed in the legal aspects, therefore they would had have to GIVE me a car - free - to let them off the hook... They would have done it (after they talked to their lawyer), because the implications are complex and far-reaching. Legal defense alone would likely exceed the price of an average new car.
As a shop owner (in Michigan), I can tell you that just because somebody abandons their car at your shop, you don't get to own the car, you can only place a lien on it to recover your costs.
The shop actually still had the title, as it hadn't been fully paid off yet. Not saying what they did was right, only that it's a different situation than what was presented in the video.
@@enarginsno, they didn’t legally have the title. At the time of sale the dealer has to fill out and file with the state a transfer of title paperwork, which they did because the state contacted the buyers after the fact to say they didn’t have insurance in place. The only thing that dealer had was a copy of the transferred title with their lien on it.
buy the gods (and receive a complete set of demons, absolutely free!), you're right! all those other perfectly innocent used car dealerships have had their reputations besmirched by this one, rare, lone wolf, renegade dealership. won't someone think of the poor, poor used car salesmen?
Courts are here to protect businesses. Why would they hurt them? Businesses break all sorts of laws, nobody ever goes to jail unless they don't pay their taxes.
@@TheCatherineCCSorry to burst your bubble but this happens just as much or more up north. In my experience living in NJ, it's much more corrupt than the worst of the south
I sold my mother's car in January to an individual who then turned around and sold it to someone else. In August I got a tag renewal notice for it still in my mother's name. I called the guy I sold it to and he started a lengthy story about how he sold it to an older couple and everything was registered. So I said, "Well the state thinks it is still in my mother's name making her responsible for whatever happens to it, so I'll just report it as stolen.". He quickly went to the local DMV and verified the title was in the new owner's name.
When you sell a car, you should file the paperwork with the DMV notifying them of the sale. This prevents you from being liable for anything the buyer does with the car after the sale. I even go out of my way to file that paperwork when selling to dealerships too (trust no one). In Texas, the paperwork is called the "Vehicle Transfer Notification" form VTR-346. Look up the process and forms for your State.
@@beepbop6697 Iowa doesn't have that, at all. You fill out the title. Now obviously, you should take care of transferring the title at time of purchase/sale. But (on private sales) I've never gone with them to the DMV, I signed the back of this thing then was supposed to hand it in later (I mean, *I* handed it in within a day, but....) I did run into the same thing when I sold a car to a friend, and got some parking ticket for it about a month later. (It was like a $5 ticket. I handed it over to them, and they took care of the ticket and the title then. It was a friend and not some rando so they weren't a dick about it, they just hadn't gotten around to it. And apparently don't feed the meter properly either thus the $5 parking ticket.)
@@beepbop6697yeah but… …I’ve gotten free cars that way by NOT doing that. Basically someone bought the car but never retitled it, or registered it, as it was sold as a parts car. They somehow fixed it somewhat and simply abandoned it for whatever reason. Someone wanted to buy it, but I was still the last registered owner, so they contacted me. I had no way of contacting the buyer, neither did the shop where the buyer abandoned the car. The shop never put a mechanics lean on it, so I filed for a lost title and picked it up. I’m not sure what happened during those eight years I no longer owned the car, but this is what happened. I eventually was forced into selling the car a second time, but again, did not fill out this form because again, it was sold as a parts car, though I did print it out. Texas, so same form you speak of. I didn’t submit the form because I kinda wanted the car to find me again. It’s a special car that doesn’t really deserve all the misfortune that has happened to it. And of course, with it now being a 36yo classic import, someone out there might’ve decided its worth restoring again.
Just have enough money to do what you want, simple!! That's the world we live in. Laws mostly exist for those of us who can't afford to find ways around them.
I remember the police book. In '80, I had a job at our local Ford dealer in Florida as a gopher. During the first week, I left a handwritten note to the manager. The next day, he gave me the job of making all the entries in the book because my penmanship impressed him.
I had a similar situation but it did not go as far as this story. Years ago I had a '91 Pontiac Grand Prix in excellent condition but the driver's side window motor went out. I go to a local junk yard and the person at the front desk told me where in the junk yard was a matching GP I might get the window motor out of. I take my tools out to the donor car and about 30 minutes later I walk back in the office to pay for the motor. Then I notice two people around my GP. I go out and ask what they were doing. One of the men, the owner of the junk yard, was trying to sell my GP to the other man, but they could not find the keys. The yard has just taken delivery of some rebuildable wrecks that morning and I just happened to park right next to those cars. The men thought my GP was one of the rebuildable wrecks that was ready to be sold. I said nothing and I took the keys out of my pocket and got in and drove off, with two confused men left standing in the lot.
That's a little more understandable. Although presumably they should have a separate spot for parking cars for customers and ones with somewhat more space for ones that are for sale.
Even worse: I saw a case of a man who went to the county courthouse for some business. Parked his car in the lot behind the courthouse at the end of a row of other parked cars. Row of cars was there for the local fire department (located in basement of courthouse) to be trained in use of jaws of life and other means of destructive entry. Oops...
@@TheCatherineCC That's just ignorant! Actually ANYWHERE this would just be a civil matter. If only you had the attention span to comprehend the video; it was already explained that the violation is called "Conversion", as it is in most states, which is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. I wouldn't expect you to know that, except he literally explained it in the video...
I used to work for a finance company doing inventory looking for conversions. I found quite a few of them. The strangest one was a dealership that I caught in a conversion was allowed to write a large check and allowed to continue business with the company I worked for at the time. The dealership thought it would be smart to hire an attorney to manage the dealership after that problem. Then I caught them again in conversion, this time much larger in scale. Not only did their loose the dealership, the attorney lost his license to practice law. Such a fun job.
there may not be a 'new owner' - considering that everything is still in her name. Would the new owner never have tried to insure it? Would the new owner owner have assumed there is no title? @@SmallSpoonBrigade
@@flychomperfly Lot's of people go thru junkers like changing socks. They don't care about insurance or proper title. Buy it for nothing, Drive it for a short time and move on. Remember that it had a bad transmission so they probably just gave it a quick patch job and sent it on it's way.
Something similar happened to my dad in 1966. He went to the local Chevy dealer and ordered a new car. Part of the deal involved trading in his 1963 Chevy when the '66 arrived. The new 1966 was scheduled to arrive in about 2 months. About 1 week after making the deal, the heater core on the '63 Chevy started leaking. My dad took the car to the same dealership to be repaired. He returned several hours later to pay for the repairs and pick up the car. No one could find it. Eventually the dealership manager was located. He told my dad that a customer came in to the dealership, saw the '63 in the shop and wanted it, so they sold it to him. At least they gave us a car to drive until the '66 came in.
That's the way the dealership in this case should've solved the issue. Either provide a great condition lightly used car a few grand more than the car the lady lost or offer a new car for the hassle.
My grandfather ran an auto repair business in Louisiana a long time ago. He's long since passed away now. He took ownership of cars because people didn't want to pay for the repairs or it was too expensive to repair and just left it there. He waited the time, did the contact, and eventually had them declared them abandoned just to get rid of them from the property.
Shady dealership. Theyt probably did minimal repairs to get it running, then sold a worthless $995 warranty to the new buyer (who reallyu can't legally be the owner).
@@TheCatherineCC Other than the cesspool some people call Memphis, and the becoming a cesspool of Nashville, yes Tennessee cops actually enforce the law. Except, as the video specifically pointed out, the police would not be able to do anything because this is "Conversion" not theft.
Same thing happened to my neighbor in Ohio in the early 90's. Took his brand new S10 back to the dealership for some detailing and aftermarket parts installed. He owned it for 4 days. When he went back to pick it up the next day, he found out it was in the process of being sold to another person at that very moment. It took 4 hours ish to get it cleared up and to get his keys back.....Have to assume it happens more than we hear.
@@dianeladico1769 Steve is the expert on all things automobile related, however, no, I am not making a funny. There are legal requirements that have to be met before a lien can be filed with the court and those take longer than ten days. I'm sure it varies from state to state but here you have to send a certified letter (optimally with return receipt required), and you also have to have a process server physically go the the address of record (optimally the sheriff).
In my state, towing companies have a mechanic's lien on the car the moment they lift the wheels off the ground (assuming the tow is legit). I don't know for sure, but I suspect mechanics have a lien the moment the repair incurrs a cost.
Steve, in the 1970s, fresh out of college, I went to work for a bank in the installment loan department. One of the tasks was to go out to a car dealer and do a floor plan check. This is exactly what you are talking about with the police book. And on one occasion we did one and after in house review they sent us back 2 weeks later. And as you say, it is interesting to see the person squirming in their seat as they try to explain why there were 11 cars sold but those sales were not reported to the bank and the floor plan loans on those vehicles had not been paid. And yes, they were in financial troubles, selling cars and paying off the floor plan costs for a different vehicle they had sold previously because they were broke. They were forced to close about a month later and liquidate. It was interesting to hear your story and actually know how it all works. Dave Wyman
For a developed contry I find it really strange that houses, cars and other registered properties can be sold by strangers. I know stuff like this happening in countries like Bangladesh but in America? What next go to the hospital for treatment only to find half of your organs have been sold off?
I can't even comprehend how this wasn't an immediate slam-dunk against the Dealership. And you pointed it out: How the hell did they SELL a car they DID NOT have the Title for?. Just stunning. My feeling, that Car dealership is due some Viral Attention on Social Media. Until they FULLY rectify the issue with their customer they ripped off. And that means, if "conversion" penalties apply in TN the way you think (maybe) they might, it's THOSE penalties. Not the value of the Car as purchased. Because the Dealership clearly engaged in criminal behavior. So, (IMO of course), it needs to sting hard enough to wake them up.
I thoroughly enjoy your show. I've watched every single one for years and have gained much knowledge from your reporting and also your rambling. By the way, never stop rambling. I thank you for putting such time and effort into each episode. keep it up, your faithful follower.
This is a small independent "Buy Here, Pay Here" dealer. The type that sells crappy cars at way over market value and charge 30%+ interest. Many people default and the dealer takes the car and resells it. Some cars have been resold 15 times at other dealers.
"...if this were in Michigan, I'd jump on this as if it were a loose ball in the end zone of a Superbowl"? I was eating and almost hurled my food across the table. THANK YOU Steve... you should do stand up comedy !!!
@@guskinmaypho174 Yeah if that owner gets Felony stopped and messes up moving a little bit and gets killed then the person that reported the felony is probably on the line for some type of man slaughter. You know the other owner didn't have any intent in stealing it so bumping it up to a felony situation is reckless endangerment at the very least.
@@Royalewithcheesee Not sure what you mean. When she brought the car in for service, of course she would had them the keys. But possession of the keys is not ownership of the car
This is such a crazy story. I guess it goes with the job title Steve, but your enunciation and clarity whilst speaking is phenomenal; concise and mindful conveyance of well constructed thoughts. It's one of those things that always impresses me.
I would pay 5k for many cars from the early 2000s. The 99 Silverado is worth 10k because they are great trucks. Sounds like you don't know very much about cars.
@@RipliWitani a 99 silverudy is not worth 10k. 😂 MAYBE 5k max. Just because some idiot will pay it doesn’t mean it’s worth it. A 2br in Cali will sell for over a million, doesn’t mean it’s actually worth it.
Why is it that if I go into someone's yard and just take their car I would go to jail but a dealership steals your car and now it's just a "civil case"? This is a prime example of corporations having far too many rights, even more so than people.
I went to buy a used car and pointed out a few faults (easy to fix) the salesman said "you come here with no money and dare to criticise our vehicle" I had the cash in my pocket at the time!
Gotta love the system we live under where someone can sell something legally registered in another person's name....and get away with it.... requiring the RIGHTFUL owner to have to spend time and money to find justice....a lawsuit should NOT be needed here....a system that doesn't allow somebody to sell something that doesn't belong to them.... SHOULD in fact...NOT ALLOW them to do it PERIOD.
Pretty sure thus video, including almost every comment besides yours, describes alk the reasons why your comment is a pretty ridiculous statement. If it's being investigated, it absolutely means it's not "ok".😂😂
I think it was a buy here, pay here, she hadn't paid it off maybe? I could be wrong though. Either way it is messed up. *Edit* Appears she did pay it off. Its weird all the way around anyway.
Who stole it? The dealership, no she willingly took it to them. The person who bought the car, no they payed for it. Not saying something shady didn't happen, I just don't see how you could get stolen car to apply to the situatio.
@@leothenomad5675 Yes the dealership... Leaving it there for them to work on is not permission for them to sell it. Wtf is wrong with you people. Are public schools really that bad?
@@kain9407 It's not the schools (although many are very bad) it's the parents who don't think they have any obligation to teach their kids anything-that's the schools' job.
If she financed through the dealer, they probably held on to the title. When she stated the car is in her name, she was probably referring to the registration. Most people don't realize that has nothing to do with ownership.
This happened to a friend of my dads. He went to get the trick painted. A few weeks later, he saw the truck driving around in the color he picked. He followed the truck and confronted the driver. Turns out the shop sold the truck without ever notifying the real owner. Let just say my dads friend borrowed the shop owners truck and had a lot of fun while he waited to get paid.
Probably something more along the lines of the call early to make sure they had it, they say they're kind of backed up and will call when it's finished. A bit over a week later, that's when you get nervous about it. Or it's something like, well, I had a trip planned, and came home with no messages about it and nothing on the cell for the time away before calling in. My family has done that a few times when work needs some time and we have plans, I did it a couple times when I had work trips and something that could be done, but I arranged to have it done while I was gone because I wouldn't need it while I was gone and it meant I wasn't without a car when I had work
“Buy here pay here” what could go wrong getting a loan backed by a used car dealer probably a month away from going under on any given day? I feel terrible for this poor woman.
This is not a civil matter, a government that doesn't prosecute crimes is not a government. Theft is always a crime. Murder is always a crime. People have died over fried chicken, I'm just saying.
Theft IS always theft, and murder is always murder. However, not all homicide is murder, just like conversion is not theft. Take the time to educate yourself on the law and how it works. Crimes are not vague ideas, but extremely specific statutes. There are several forms of theft and conversion does not fit them; it is still a violation, but the recourse is civil because of the nature. That is why things like treble (triple) damages and legal fees can be included in cases like this; ultimately, she will get any attorney fees paid by the dealership, plus triple the money back! It makes it hurt businesses enough to really try not to, but not make a possible mistake of one worker thinking it was a trade in and selling it into a prison sentence.
The customer will be receiving a new vehicle, because the law requires replacement of equivalent replacement value. Since a 2005 is literally impossible to replace with a 2005 of identical value ...
They'll probably use the NADA value. She'll learn that the price she paid was probagly 3x to 4x the NADA retail price but the dealershikp will insist on the NADA wholesale prioce for restitution.
12:00 but Steve if the car dealership is the lender, until the vehicle is paid off the lender has the title (due to the lean). So unless she paid off the vehicle, she wouldn't receive the title from the lean holder.
Mrs Henderson took her car to a Ford dealership a week before her warranty was to expire. Transmission was broken... She kept calling about when it would be ready.. 8 days later they informed her the warranty ran out.. she had to pay them to replace the transmission.. Kentucky
Years ago a dealership let a buddy take a truck for a weekend test drive. He left his truck there. When he went back on monday they couldn't find his truck. The dealership sold it over the weekend so police were called. The cop told the GM of the dealership there will be a resolution or someone is going to jail. So my buddy got the new truck for what he still owed on the old truck. The GM took him into the office and had a drink with him. He had been in the industry for years and had never ever seen this.
If the dealership was also the lender, they probably still had the title. I bought a car from a dealership that did the financing, and I didn't get the title until the car was paid off.
Doesn't matter if she did or didn't own the title at the time and it was under the dealership instead, the dealership still broke several laws anyway by doing this as all she did was take it in for repairs even though the service warranty was no longer usable and she'd not missed any payments according to this news story which means they had zero legal right to actually do this (up to date payments do NOT give a dealership the right to sell the vehicle again as there's no financial issues that would ever warrant them doing this). Considering they also never even bothered to call her and ask if she was picking up the car, never notified her that they'd sold it until she asked where the hell did her car go and called the cops of the reporter instead of giving their version means they really DON'T want eyes on this and they know that they've really fucked up.
And I find it unbeliveable it actually had less than 12000 miles on it. So they sold her a bogus warantee as well. Unless it was 12000 over what was already on it.
@@DVankeuren No, that's incredibly normal. It's a 12k contract on the vehicle from the point of sale, not that the vehicle was warrantied until 12k miles. Manufacturer warranties are for x years/y mileage total and mostly apply to the car regardless of owner (buy a used vehicle with 30k miles, has a 60k mfr warranty, take it into dealership with mechanical/electric issues and it gets fixed), service contracts of whatever type are x miles from point of purchase and are a contract specific to the purchaser and have coverage outlined per the contract mostly through a third party service network (or specific to the shop that sold it.) What's bizarre to me is how she drove over 12k miles in 5 months. That's a hell of a lot. But maybe the family is using it for uber eats/door dash type work which would make sense given the financial details of the story. Nothing wrong with driving a vehicle you paid for, just that's so many miles quickly.
I really need to know how this all turns out. This seems too insane to be real. This is the kind of thing that would put your dealership out of business.
98% of used car dealers give the other 2% a bad name !
😂
I worked for car dealers for 43 years and retired after I couldn’t take it anymore😳 And you mean the 1% not 2% 🤔😳🤣
@@edwardabrams4972I think he meant 1/2 of 1%.
I think you mean 3. Not 3% but 3 in total.
The only good used car dealerships do is get cheap ugly suits out of the stores
If it’s still in her name. Report it stolen! Go after the dealership with a good lawyer. The police should arrest the dealer for stealing it and selling it.
Exactly, my first thought was that's theft
She didn't sign anything authorizing them to do that
I guess the dealer would claim it was not stolen and then it turns into civil case where police refuse to do anything.
The vehicle title was still owned by the dealership's finance dept though
Problem with that is that the person it was sold to is innocent. They are also victims and could pay a terrible price if pulled over and arrested. They would have an undue arrest on their record.
@@jonathansmith7306The finance Dept has a lien on the title. They don't own the title.
They need to be arrested for GTA and have their police book inspected ASAP.
If they don't even know what cars they own, they don't pay taxes properly.
Requisite IANAL. Arrest whom? Need a responsible party. The correct approach would be search warrants and subpoenas I would think. Then, GTA if criminal intent is found, asset forfeiture / damages and fines if criminal intent is not found
@@williamsteveling8321 arrest the owner of the dealership, obviously, they are responsible for what they do.
@@williamsteveling8321 The owner of the Dealership that stole and sold a car.
Since they did not indicate a 3rd party or unauthorized person stole it from their lot, they are 100% liable for this.
@@scottmcshannon6821 I would think they would need to arrest the dealer listed on the paperwork. It could be argued that the owner might not have known what was happening. You sue the owner.
@@christopherg2347 being liability for something and screwing it up in the worst ways possible still isn't theft.
You know you messed up when a lawyer gets super excited to take the case.
I said basically the same damn thing when he got all juiced up to talk about it lol
She could reclaim it from the “new” “owner”😊
Eh, when a good lawyer gets excited, yes. Many lawyers get excited to take cases merely because they can make good money.
If Hertz can report anything stolen, we can try too.
Then the police will pull a gun on the innocent buyer, rather than the guilty dealer.
Who ever signed the sales documents, should have been arrested for auto theft.
No, the dealership itself.
@@davidh9638Arrest the person who sold the car, but sue the dealership.
Sales documents?😱🤣🤣🤣🤣
Receiving stolen property, except for it to stick the recipient would have to be aware of the fact that the dealer had appropriated it illegally. I'm certain the new "owner" would also have cause to sue the dealership.😊
@@davidh9638
The dealership OWNER needs to go to prison. White collar crime is grossly underpunished.
The woman bought a $5000 car and had to finance the purchase. She also bought a $900 12 month extended warranty.
The dealership played the odds that this poor, ignorant woman would not be able to hire an attorney, but they forgot about the local news who do not charge people to help.
Bingo!
the local news are also happy to just stir up drama. Anything but a very calm reasonable and professional response is a good basis for drama.
@@sarowie A light has been shone on the injustice! How people react is beyond our control…
@@mikeschneider5077 I hope you realize that there are situations where the person experiencing injustice is an actual victim and not a "crisis actor". Also that you having incomplete information doesn't allow you to speculate about motivation, timelines, information not given, the situation *or anything else*.
If she has a good case a lawyer will take it on pro bono
They sell her a $2500 car for $5900 with waranty, Don't honor warranty, Keep her over 2k she's paid, and sell car again.... Nothing to see here. I'm embarrased for them, This is a scummy as it gets.
I've seen a lot of Buy here Pay here lots who get a down payment that is pretty much what the car would sell for in a private sale. All the payments are pure gravy. No way to lose in that business model
That's fairly common for cars that were being sold to subprime borrowers. They'd sell the car, wait for the payments to stop and then repo the car and repeat it until the car wouldn't be sold again. It's extremely profitable and probably ought to be illegal.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Exactly. They made a bet that she would not be able to lawyer up and do anything about it.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade - Nope. I am 100% in favor of a car being repo'd, if payments aren't made. Not the dealers fault.
@@dennissvitak5475The concern is the dealers know the buyers will eventually default, it’s predatory and doesn’t add anything to society or the wider economy
In the early 80's a friend of my father was at a car dealer negotiating on a new car with a trade in. While he was negotiating a salesman was selling his car to someone. He happened to walk out to get some papers from the car and saw this going on. He asked the buyer how much the dealer was asking, cancelled the new car deal, sold the car to the buyer for less than the dealer was asking but more than the dealer was paying. He went somewhere else to purchase a new car.
Good catch. Make more money and save someone else a lot of money as well.
Happened to me, negotiated a price, filled out the paperwork, they wanted my car as a trade in but lowballed me so I said I would keep it and suddenly the car I was buying was " just sold to someone over the phone, can't sell it to you". Left that dealer and purchased a car from another dealer.
I got thrown out of a local used car dealer for something similar. I was trying to get a price on a F350 diesel they had on the lot and they kept stonewalling me. Little did I know there was some woman interested in my truck. She finally walked in and asked me if it was mine and what I wanted for it. Before I could even speak we were both being told to leave. Funny enough, later that afternoon I got a call from the sales rep I had dealt with on the F350 and he wanted to give me a price on the truck.
The dealership - Cherokee Auto Sales Knoxville - responded on their Facebook page; they seem to be claiming that if you ask for repairs to be covered under warranty, but the warranty has already expired, that means you have broken some sort of contract and that means they can sell your car. In other words, a bunch of BS.
I had a situation where I took the car to a dealership for an oil change (car was a few years old and covered with an extended warranty from that same dealership where I bought it new).
After the oil change, start the car, and immediately the "check engine light comes on" before leaving their parking lot. Turn around and dealership wants a day to figure out what is wrong. Next day they say car needs a couple thousand dollars in repairs and rattles out a list of things: I said: "great!, I bought your extended warranty so I want you to fix everything you just said is wrong with the car!"
They start backpedaling real quick and said they'd call me back. In less than an hour they call back and say "car is ready for pick up", lol. I ask what about the thousands in repairs you said were needed?
The tech doing the oil change had disconnected a vacuum hose which caused the CEL. Scammy dealerships.
I once bought a new car and part of the promotion was getting a free detailing six months later. So I bring it in for the detailing and I decide to just hang out. I knew it would be a couple of hours. I had nothing better to do than sit in the air conditioned waiting room eating free popcorn and reading my book. Three hours later, I just wanted to know how far on the list I was.
They said they had no record of me coming in. The guy I handed my keys to seem to not remember me getting the receipt for the estimate stating why I was there and the promotion with $0. I show it to him & the manager. After they accused me of printing it myself, I called the police from their phone. They had decided that someone took the car after they were done and thought I was the one who took it.
The police come, the information is taken. The service representative says the same thing he said to me in the beginning. "We have no record of him bringing it in."
I show the officer my receipt, and its got the time on it. The police ask if their security cameras work and record. They do, they watch me bring in my car and sign a page on a clip board and hand the keys over, and then some kid drives away with my car.
"Who's that?" the police ask.
"That's the detail guy."
"Where is he?" ... crickets.
The police ask if they could look around the place and the manager says yes. My car isn't there. The police officer and I spent 2 hours dealing with this. So they want to know the name and address of their employee. That's the last person to be seen with the car. The manager is visibly furious. The service representative seem nervous like he knows something. As the manager is pulling up his information and the police officer is writing all this down, suddenly the service manager has found my car.
The service manager drives it up like it was just sitting in the back where we had already examined and it surly wasn't in the back. The representative says it was parked next door at the strip mall in front of the cell phone store. He says they sometimes use that parking lot like an overflow. The police officer looked at my receipt and the odometer and tells me my car has been driven 6 miles since that morning. There was no damage and it was detailed and fueled up.
I didn't press charges, but how could you not only lose a car but and entire customer? My theory is they hadn't done the detail at all, the kid took it off site to have a detail done. They didn't expect me to sit there all day. And, apparently lost their copy of the paperwork. Incompetence all the way down. This was a GM dealership and I never went back. We've got GM dealerships in every town near by.
Agreed. Unless it's a leased car with a mileage cap, how many miles the owner puts on it is the buyers business, not the sellers.
I have a small box with a stick pin in it.
What happens if this car is involved in an accident while still under her name?
Former TN dealer here, I suspect that the dealership financed the car and is therefore the lien holder on the title. In TN that means they have the title in their possession. They simply fill out a repossession form and can resale the car and get a new title. Obviously they broke the law since the buyer had not given them any reason to repossess the car. Also, in order to claim abandonment they would have to hold the car for 30 days, send certified mail to the owner and file paperwork with the state to obtain a new title. It’s a slam dunk case for the owner of the car. The dealer screwed up, they need to settle with the owner.
Edit: It is possible that they sold it to a salvage yard either with the title or without if the car was more than 12 years old. A salvage yard would not register the car for tags so the state would not know it was not still in her possession thus the letter she got regarding lack of liability insurance.
Maybe that was their original plan. The registration is still in her name, though, since she was contacted about the lack of insurance.
She probably paid off the loan and the buy here pay here dealer "accidentally" didn't release the lien. To compound things, BHPH lots repo a lot of cars when the buyer misses a payment, so some sales guy assumed the car was repossessed. And we all know what happens when you assume.
@@curtmeister24exactly this. These scam places are used to doing as they please. They thought that ignoring this lady would have no consequences because she is poor.
@@ShaggyRodgers420 Somebody said something like "it's not a crime to be poor, but it might as well be."
From a clueless European, thanks for your explanation :)
She should report the vehicle stolen to her insurance company & they WILL sort this out!!!
Known the cops she tried and they said oh that's a civil matter
If she's financing a $5,900 car I have a feeling she's also using an insurance company with a cartoon as their spokesperson so it's not going to cover much. However even if it were one of the big insurance companies I doubt this would fall under her insurance policy.
@@kenyattaclay7666 you dont think theft is covered under the insurance? lmfao ok champ
@@Smart-Towel-RG-400That is so often the case with police. Everything is a civil matter if they aren’t interested.
Her insurance company will require a police report. And the police report would state this is a civil matter with the dealership and not grand theft. The insurance company would then dismiss the claim and cancel the insurance on the vehicle.
That's a stolen car. They stole it
And they committed fraud when they "sold" it to someone else, that person got scammed into buying a stolen car
The dealer is absolutely responsible for replacing the vehicle with something of equal value. She also needs to report the vehicle as stolen by the dealership.
If I steal a car the cops will arrest me and put me in jail. If a car dealership steals a car the cops will say it's a civil matter and say there's nothing they can do.
@@Strideo1grand theft isnt a civil matter though.
@@zeroch1ll150 That doesn't matter if the cops refuse to make any arrests and just say to take it to civil court.
@@Strideo1 stealing a car is considered a felony in most states, selling said car is another felony.
So its not a civil matter, the cop would have to document and follow the rules as far as any other stolen care case. They cant just say its a civil matter because it isnt. Ther person who purchased the car would be in posession of a stolen vehicle, which is a crime. Dont know if its a felony because in this case they wouldnt have known it was stolen. Even still when cops came across them it would have to be confiscated.
@@zeroch1ll150 You can't force the police to do anything if they don't want to regardless of if you disagree. It's the same as when trespassers enter a home and claim they have a lease and the owners call the cops and instead of arresting the trespassers the cops say it's a civil matter and to take the squatters to court.
In the late 60's an airman from the local base went to local Ford dealership. He parked his car, met a salesman, looked at several cars, decided to wait. He returned to his car only to find someone sitting in it . The person was told to wait in the car, sales would bring the keys so he could test drive. The airman had a hell of a time getting his car back. Explaining what happened when he returned to the base,the Commander put the car dealer off limits to all military personnel. Seems like nothing is really new......RF
You know you done fucked up when a lawyer says this would be a fun case😂😂😂
We had a federal case in our hands that was going to be the most awesome blast to file suit against the state of Arizona. Then the State settled and we were SO disappointed! 😂
@@Somewhere-In-AZI imagine that there could be some fun cases within the 100+ DOJ report against Phoenix PD 😂
Dealership committed both theft from her and fraud when they "sold" it. Both she and the person the dealership scammed should be suing them big time. And the state should be investigating possible criminal violations.
Possible?
They stole the car. That’s DEFINITE criminal activity.
And probably forged the request for a replacement title.
What I'm wondering about is... Who "buys" a car from a dealership and then is just okay with not getting the title, not registering it, apparently not getting insurance etc... In my country it gets covered in driving school how you properly purchase a car and what you do with a car between purchase and starting to drive it. And driving without insurance is a felony.
@@jeremydale4548Not in Tennessee sadly. Since she dropped it off it's now a civil matter.
If you order a hamburger in Tennessee and pay for it and they just hand you a bun with a little dab of mustard, miniature piece of lettuce and tomato that's not stealing and is a civil matter according to the cops.
If you call the cops and try and get your money back and the same manager that made your burger without a burger patty on it wants you trespassed, then she can have you trespassed for having the nerve to demand a burger patty on your hamburger.
Morristown Tennessee police will say it's a civil matter because she didn't take it out of your pocket it isn't stealing.
Then they trespass you for life.
@@jasonbourne1596 Must be a lot of burned-down burger shops in that state.
This reminds me of that Texas dealership that sold a woman’s C8 corvette she ordered from the factory when it was delivered for pick up. They got in major hot water.
Steve did that story, too.
Bet they sold the car with an extended warranty and fixed the car with salvaged parts.
Guarantee it
Clip joint
If I was a judge and this came across my desk, the victim would get the car back, the loan would be paid in full by the dealer, the person they sold the car to would be awarded double the value of the car, and the dealer's business license would be revoked. Punishment must be severe enough to prevent reoffending.
This seems a fair recompense.
They'd go BK and walk away, then the same owners would buy the dealership assets through a BK sale and reorganize under a new LLC
Thank god you're not a judge because what you're proposing would get you disbarred.
that is definitely fair to both victims, which are the person who got their car illegally sold, and the person who bought the said car
I don't understand how this is a civil case. If I stole a car from the dealership it would be criminal, why isn't the dealership employee not criminally charged for this?
He explains it in the video when he talks about conversion.
@@whydotheytry7940thing is someone commented fraud to sell a car they didn't have the title to. That's the issue.
@@jessicasharp9886 I understand the logic but the law doesn’t work on logic it works on how laws are written. Steve explains why it’s not theft and that there is a legal term for what happened. He said it’s called conversion.
@@whydotheytry7940The reason being: businesses pay for the election of our politicians so they can have them write exclusions into the law for the crimes they commit. Yay corruption.
@@jgt2598 damn what have I unlocked lol.
They did her a favor. She likely wouldn't have been able to pay for the repairs but after she's done with the lawsuit she'll be able to buy a new car.
Or own the whole dealership.
and in the mean time? while she has to fight it out for years?
@@DellikkilleDShe would have been out a car either way. The only thing that really changes in this situation is that she has a reason for lost wages and she'll have to attend some court hearings. Hell, she could probably get a GoFundMe set up and have a car by the end of the week with how viral this story went.
She can claim massive damages.
No way. If this happened to me, I'd do the court fight. But I'd rather have the busted car and financial problems. Unless it settles, she has years of stress coming. Car maintenance when you're broke happens all the time, and it doesn't ruin multiple years.
I would think this would constitute "Grand Theft Auto" if they sold a car they didn't own. That makes it a criminal offence not a civil one so the local DA should take action.
More like "Grand Conversion Auto".
Theft and conversion are the same lol.
Yeah but if you did this to a dealership they would arrest you fucking immediately. Corporations are exempt from the law, apparently.
They still had the title.
Had a similar situation a few years ago. My wife's best friend has a roommate who bought a used car from a dealership near where they live in N Richland Hills TX. A day after he brought the car home his phone started blowing up from the dealership. They kept telling him there was a problem with the car and that they needed him yo bring it back in (making it sound like there was a mechanical issue). He told them the car was running fine but the kept hounding him. So he went back to the dealership the next day. After some extensive back and forth with the dealership they finally fessed up and told him that the car they sold him belonged to a customer who had brought it in for repair. They convinced him to return the car in exchange for a sweetheart deal on another one. I don't know what they told the folks who originally brought it in.
Just, wow.
I'm a little better versed in the legal aspects, therefore they would had have to GIVE me a car - free - to let them off the hook...
They would have done it (after they talked to their lawyer), because the implications are complex and far-reaching.
Legal defense alone would likely exceed the price of an average new car.
@@victorsong8416not to mention the bad publicity/lost sales when you go to the news and they get DRAGGED by the public
As a shop owner (in Michigan), I can tell you that just because somebody abandons their car at your shop, you don't get to own the car, you can only place a lien on it to recover your costs.
The shop actually still had the title, as it hadn't been fully paid off yet. Not saying what they did was right, only that it's a different situation than what was presented in the video.
@@enarginsno, they didn’t legally have the title. At the time of sale the dealer has to fill out and file with the state a transfer of title paperwork, which they did because the state contacted the buyers after the fact to say they didn’t have insurance in place. The only thing that dealer had was a copy of the transferred title with their lien on it.
Doesn't this used car dealership realize they're going to ruin the reputation of used car dealerships everywhere?
Why did I have to scroll so long to find this comment?
But used car dealerships never did anything wrong before! 😅
buy the gods (and receive a complete set of demons, absolutely free!), you're right! all those other perfectly innocent used car dealerships have had their reputations besmirched by this one, rare, lone wolf, renegade dealership. won't someone think of the poor, poor used car salesmen?
LOL
Their poor reputation is on the line. Oh woe is them.
so the dealership stole her car? arrest them and imprison them, its pretty simple.
But this is the south, where nothing that happens to poor people is a crime.
Courts are here to protect businesses. Why would they hurt them? Businesses break all sorts of laws, nobody ever goes to jail unless they don't pay their taxes.
@@CaptainSnackbeard but this guy is lying to the state about selling cars, which means he is NOT PAYING HIS TAXES.
Have you ever been to tax a chusettes? Lol mass is the worst state I've ever lived in. Texas is so much better, even the migrants are friendly lol
@@TheCatherineCCSorry to burst your bubble but this happens just as much or more up north. In my experience living in NJ, it's much more corrupt than the worst of the south
I sold my mother's car in January to an individual who then turned around and sold it to someone else. In August I got a tag renewal notice for it still in my mother's name. I called the guy I sold it to and he started a lengthy story about how he sold it to an older couple and everything was registered. So I said, "Well the state thinks it is still in my mother's name making her responsible for whatever happens to it, so I'll just report it as stolen.". He quickly went to the local DMV and verified the title was in the new owner's name.
When you sell a car, you should file the paperwork with the DMV notifying them of the sale. This prevents you from being liable for anything the buyer does with the car after the sale. I even go out of my way to file that paperwork when selling to dealerships too (trust no one).
In Texas, the paperwork is called the "Vehicle Transfer Notification" form VTR-346.
Look up the process and forms for your State.
I do that in Oregon. Every time. One buyer was mad that I made him give me his info so I could fill out the appropriate DMV paperwork.@@beepbop6697
@@beepbop6697 Iowa doesn't have that, at all. You fill out the title. Now obviously, you should take care of transferring the title at time of purchase/sale. But (on private sales) I've never gone with them to the DMV, I signed the back of this thing then was supposed to hand it in later (I mean, *I* handed it in within a day, but....)
I did run into the same thing when I sold a car to a friend, and got some parking ticket for it about a month later. (It was like a $5 ticket. I handed it over to them, and they took care of the ticket and the title then. It was a friend and not some rando so they weren't a dick about it, they just hadn't gotten around to it. And apparently don't feed the meter properly either thus the $5 parking ticket.)
@@beepbop6697yeah but… …I’ve gotten free cars that way by NOT doing that. Basically someone bought the car but never retitled it, or registered it, as it was sold as a parts car. They somehow fixed it somewhat and simply abandoned it for whatever reason. Someone wanted to buy it, but I was still the last registered owner, so they contacted me. I had no way of contacting the buyer, neither did the shop where the buyer abandoned the car. The shop never put a mechanics lean on it, so I filed for a lost title and picked it up. I’m not sure what happened during those eight years I no longer owned the car, but this is what happened.
I eventually was forced into selling the car a second time, but again, did not fill out this form because again, it was sold as a parts car, though I did print it out. Texas, so same form you speak of. I didn’t submit the form because I kinda wanted the car to find me again. It’s a special car that doesn’t really deserve all the misfortune that has happened to it. And of course, with it now being a 36yo classic import, someone out there might’ve decided its worth restoring again.
How is this not criminal? I'm so f-ing sick of businesses getting away with stuff that would put a normal person in prison
Just have enough money to do what you want, simple!! That's the world we live in. Laws mostly exist for those of us who can't afford to find ways around them.
Because companies have more rights, and less accountability, than we the people do. This is a country for the corporations, by the corporations.
I remember the police book. In '80, I had a job at our local Ford dealer in Florida as a gopher. During the first week, I left a handwritten note to the manager. The next day, he gave me the job of making all the entries in the book because my penmanship impressed him.
I had a similar situation but it did not go as far as this story. Years ago I had a '91 Pontiac Grand Prix in excellent condition but the driver's side window motor went out. I go to a local junk yard and the person at the front desk told me where in the junk yard was a matching GP I might get the window motor out of. I take my tools out to the donor car and about 30 minutes later I walk back in the office to pay for the motor.
Then I notice two people around my GP. I go out and ask what they were doing. One of the men, the owner of the junk yard, was trying to sell my GP to the other man, but they could not find the keys. The yard has just taken delivery of some rebuildable wrecks that morning and I just happened to park right next to those cars. The men thought my GP was one of the rebuildable wrecks that was ready to be sold. I said nothing and I took the keys out of my pocket and got in and drove off, with two confused men left standing in the lot.
That's a little more understandable. Although presumably they should have a separate spot for parking cars for customers and ones with somewhat more space for ones that are for sale.
Even worse: I saw a case of a man who went to the county courthouse for some business. Parked his car in the lot behind the courthouse at the end of a row of other parked cars. Row of cars was there for the local fire department (located in basement of courthouse) to be trained in use of jaws of life and other means of destructive entry. Oops...
6 grand for a 19 year old Taurus???? Good lord that is criminal.
lol, thats a good price these days. shocking isnt it?
I wonder what kind obscene interest rates she signed up for. A lot of these places are basically finance companies using cars as bait.
You see that a lot around military bases taking advantage of young military personnel with no money and little experience. Now THAT is criminal.
Not really, I've had many tarus go over 300k miles. It's the same car as my buick which has 450k miles!!!
@@DellikkilleD It's not though, you can get an 07-08 Acuras for that. I live in the same region.
I'm thinking she needs to get the police involved to recover her stolen vehicle.
It's in Tennessee, a poor person filing a police report against a business is likely to be arrested.
Not to mention all her personal possessions that were in the car...
@@TheCatherineCC That's just ignorant! Actually ANYWHERE this would just be a civil matter. If only you had the attention span to comprehend the video; it was already explained that the violation is called "Conversion", as it is in most states, which is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. I wouldn't expect you to know that, except he literally explained it in the video...
@@andycole5957 the reb is upset
I used to work for a finance company doing inventory looking for conversions. I found quite a few of them. The strangest one was a dealership that I caught in a conversion was allowed to write a large check and allowed to continue business with the company I worked for at the time. The dealership thought it would be smart to hire an attorney to manage the dealership after that problem. Then I caught them again in conversion, this time much larger in scale. Not only did their loose the dealership, the attorney lost his license to practice law. Such a fun job.
It seems to that selling something that is not yours needs to result in a criminal problem.
She should have reported the car stolen the day she was told it was sold!
This one certainly seems to have earned the name "stealership."
That's where you contact the DMV and report it stolen, then file theft claim with your insurance company.
There's going to be even more legal issues if that new driver gets into some sort of a crash and doesn't have a title on file with the state.
there may not be a 'new owner' - considering that everything is still in her name. Would the new owner never have tried to insure it? Would the new owner owner have assumed there is no title? @@SmallSpoonBrigade
@@flychomperfly Lot's of people go thru junkers like changing socks. They don't care about insurance or proper title. Buy it for nothing, Drive it for a short time and move on. Remember that it had a bad transmission so they probably just gave it a quick patch job and sent it on it's way.
Indeed. Add some Lucas Oil Transmission Fix and the transmission is good for 4 more years. I used that stuff, it works miracles.
Something similar happened to my dad in 1966. He went to the local Chevy dealer and ordered a new car. Part of the deal involved trading in his 1963 Chevy when the '66 arrived. The new 1966 was scheduled to arrive in about 2 months. About 1 week after making the deal, the heater core on the '63 Chevy started leaking. My dad took the car to the same dealership to be repaired. He returned several hours later to pay for the repairs and pick up the car. No one could find it. Eventually the dealership manager was located. He told my dad that a customer came in to the dealership, saw the '63 in the shop and wanted it, so they sold it to him. At least they gave us a car to drive until the '66 came in.
That's the way the dealership in this case should've solved the issue. Either provide a great condition lightly used car a few grand more than the car the lady lost or offer a new car for the hassle.
My grandfather ran an auto repair business in Louisiana a long time ago. He's long since passed away now. He took ownership of cars because people didn't want to pay for the repairs or it was too expensive to repair and just left it there. He waited the time, did the contact, and eventually had them declared them abandoned just to get rid of them from the property.
If she had it in for repair, did the dealer repair it before they then sold it????
Shady dealership. Theyt probably did minimal repairs to get it running, then sold a worthless $995 warranty to the new buyer (who reallyu can't legally be the owner).
They seem like a real piece of work. I wonder if they forgot to check the warranty before they did the repair, then they got mad.
Call your sheriff and report it stolen
The lady should of called the police right away.
Because Tennessee cops would do something?
@@TheCatherineCC Other than the cesspool some people call Memphis, and the becoming a cesspool of Nashville, yes Tennessee cops actually enforce the law. Except, as the video specifically pointed out, the police would not be able to do anything because this is "Conversion" not theft.
Even before Steve said it, I was hoping he was going to use one of my favorite words. He taught us “treble damages.!”
Same thing happened to my neighbor in Ohio in the early 90's. Took his brand new S10 back to the dealership for some detailing and aftermarket parts installed. He owned it for 4 days. When he went back to pick it up the next day, he found out it was in the process of being sold to another person at that very moment. It took 4 hours ish to get it cleared up and to get his keys back.....Have to assume it happens more than we hear.
4 hours?
Give me my keys now or I’m coming to back there get them.
Tax evasion, Grand Theft Auto then falsifying documents to sell the vehicle to an unwitting customer. (Fraud)
It's conversion.
@@iancurrie8844 yeah I heard him explain that but I just like to add my thought.
Couldn't she file stolen car police report.
You cannot obtain a mechanic's lien in ten days in any state of which I am aware.
Oh please, please tell me you're making a funny.
Most states is 30 days plus there's a set procedure that must be followed to the letter before the car can be taken and sold.
@@dianeladico1769 Steve is the expert on all things automobile related, however, no, I am not making a funny. There are legal requirements that have to be met before a lien can be filed with the court and those take longer than ten days. I'm sure it varies from state to state but here you have to send a certified letter (optimally with return receipt required), and you also have to have a process server physically go the the address of record (optimally the sheriff).
@@lockedonlaw But they didn't fix the car.
In my state, towing companies have a mechanic's lien on the car the moment they lift the wheels off the ground (assuming the tow is legit). I don't know for sure, but I suspect mechanics have a lien the moment the repair incurrs a cost.
Steve, in the 1970s, fresh out of college, I went to work for a bank in the installment loan department. One of the tasks was to go out to a car dealer and do a floor plan check. This is exactly what you are talking about with the police book. And on one occasion we did one and after in house review they sent us back 2 weeks later. And as you say, it is interesting to see the person squirming in their seat as they try to explain why there were 11 cars sold but those sales were not reported to the bank and the floor plan loans on those vehicles had not been paid. And yes, they were in financial troubles, selling cars and paying off the floor plan costs for a different vehicle they had sold previously because they were broke. They were forced to close about a month later and liquidate.
It was interesting to hear your story and actually know how it all works.
Dave Wyman
When the opposing counsel thinks your case is going to be "fun" ...you're probably gonna want to settle.
For a developed contry I find it really strange that houses, cars and other registered properties can be sold by strangers. I know stuff like this happening in countries like Bangladesh but in America?
What next go to the hospital for treatment only to find half of your organs have been sold off?
Don't give them ideas...
Yes. "Organ Donor" are at high risk of this, although it was meant to be voluntary,
@@christianguzman8228 Anyone remember the movie COMA?
I love their claim that her having a lien on the car means they own it and can sell it.
I can't even comprehend how this wasn't an immediate slam-dunk against the Dealership. And you pointed it out: How the hell did they SELL a car they DID NOT have the Title for?. Just stunning. My feeling, that Car dealership is due some Viral Attention on Social Media. Until they FULLY rectify the issue with their customer they ripped off. And that means, if "conversion" penalties apply in TN the way you think (maybe) they might, it's THOSE penalties. Not the value of the Car as purchased.
Because the Dealership clearly engaged in criminal behavior. So, (IMO of course), it needs to sting hard enough to wake them up.
Dealership should lose there dealer licence
"But wait, there's more." One of my favourite phrases.
This deserves a follow-up!!
OMG this is insane. I was a warranty clerk new dealership forever,,,,,, this is theft period
Well, yes, having your shady business practices exposed is quite the nuisance.
I thoroughly enjoy your show. I've watched every single one for years and have gained much knowledge from your reporting and also your rambling. By the way, never stop rambling. I thank you for putting such time and effort into each episode. keep it up, your faithful follower.
This is a small independent "Buy Here, Pay Here" dealer. The type that sells crappy cars at way over market value and charge 30%+ interest. Many people default and the dealer takes the car and resells it. Some cars have been resold 15 times at other dealers.
"...if this were in Michigan, I'd jump on this as if it were a loose ball in the end zone of a Superbowl"? I was eating and almost hurled my food across the table. THANK YOU Steve... you should do stand up comedy !!!
I would’ve reported it as stolen by the dealership
I wouldn't report it stolen by the dealership, rather just stolen, so that new owner gets a nasty surprise and sues the dealership as well.
@@guskinmaypho174 Intentionally doing so, _knowing_ than an innocent person will be accosted by police, is a crime in many states.
@@guskinmaypho174 Yeah if that owner gets Felony stopped and messes up moving a little bit and gets killed then the person that reported the felony is probably on the line for some type of man slaughter. You know the other owner didn't have any intent in stealing it so bumping it up to a felony situation is reckless endangerment at the very least.
@@UncleKennysPlace Receiving Stolen Goods, you don't have to know it's hot.
@@UncleKennysPlace receiving stolen property *is* a crime. the new driver isnt legally innocent.
The dealer returned her license plate? Well that was awfully kind of them.
Dealer probably owes the woman a new car, or report the car as stolen
Hell, they should be forced to give her a full refund, and a brand new car while the idiot that sold the car is arrested and charged for grand theft.
But they already sold it, that would just get an innocent third party arrested, and likely injured by overzealous cops.
She have them the keys
@@Royalewithcheesee Not sure what you mean. When she brought the car in for service, of course she would had them the keys. But possession of the keys is not ownership of the car
@@IaIaCthulhuFtagn what third party? He said the salesman (who should have known better) should be part of the arrest
This is such a crazy story.
I guess it goes with the job title Steve, but your enunciation and clarity whilst speaking is phenomenal; concise and mindful conveyance of well constructed thoughts.
It's one of those things that always impresses me.
Mr. Lehto, I really enjoyed watching your passion for your profession.
Not only were they like get off my property, but they even called the police.
Lol. Im getting old. I read the thumbnail and thought this is interesting, "Dealer soils car brought in for repair."😂❤
Last time that mechanic gets Mexican for lunch…
The biggest scam is selling a 19 year old car for 6k.
I would pay 5k for many cars from the early 2000s. The 99 Silverado is worth 10k because they are great trucks. Sounds like you don't know very much about cars.
My 2016 Nissan sentra is down to 6k and it's in good-great condition. It's crazy how they upsold her on it!
@@RipliWitani a 99 silverudy is not worth 10k. 😂 MAYBE 5k max. Just because some idiot will pay it doesn’t mean it’s worth it. A 2br in Cali will sell for over a million, doesn’t mean it’s actually worth it.
I drive a 2003 Ford Taurus wagon. I wouldn't take 6k for it even though we got it for only ten bucks.
Bet it was sold to a scrappy!
Why is it that if I go into someone's yard and just take their car I would go to jail but a dealership steals your car and now it's just a "civil case"? This is a prime example of corporations having far too many rights, even more so than people.
I went to buy a used car and pointed out a few faults (easy to fix) the salesman said "you come here with no money and dare to criticise our vehicle" I had the cash in my pocket at the time!
Gotta love the system we live under where someone can sell something legally registered in another person's name....and get away with it.... requiring the RIGHTFUL owner to have to spend time and money to find justice....a lawsuit should NOT be needed here....a system that doesn't allow somebody to sell something that doesn't belong to them.... SHOULD in fact...NOT ALLOW them to do it PERIOD.
Pretty sure thus video, including almost every comment besides yours, describes alk the reasons why your comment is a pretty ridiculous statement. If it's being investigated, it absolutely means it's not "ok".😂😂
how can they sell the car without the tittle?
I'm asking that myself.
I think it was a buy here, pay here, she hadn't paid it off maybe? I could be wrong though. Either way it is messed up.
*Edit*
Appears she did pay it off. Its weird all the way around anyway.
It was a buy here pay here place. They had the title.
@@PW.Skyline.V37the car was about $8000, and she only paid $2700 on it. So I don't think she paid it off
@@PW.Skyline.V37 She didn’t pay it off, only $2700 of the $5900 price. But all her payments were made on time. No late or missed payments.
Why didn't she just report the car stolen?
Who stole it? The dealership, no she willingly took it to them. The person who bought the car, no they payed for it. Not saying something shady didn't happen, I just don't see how you could get stolen car to apply to the situatio.
Yeah, take a page from Hertz.
@@leothenomad5675
Yes the dealership... Leaving it there for them to work on is not permission for them to sell it. Wtf is wrong with you people. Are public schools really that bad?
@@kain9407 It's not the schools (although many are very bad) it's the parents who don't think they have any obligation to teach their kids anything-that's the schools' job.
@AlWorth9738
Did it say that? They teach reasoning, or at least they did when I was in school.
If she financed through the dealer, they probably held on to the title. When she stated the car is in her name, she was probably referring to the registration. Most people don't realize that has nothing to do with ownership.
This happened to a friend of my dads. He went to get the trick painted. A few weeks later, he saw the truck driving around in the color he picked. He followed the truck and confronted the driver. Turns out the shop sold the truck without ever notifying the real owner.
Let just say my dads friend borrowed the shop owners truck and had a lot of fun while he waited to get paid.
I thought stealership was just a meme on their price gouging.
I don't understand why she waited 10 days before calling?? Im on the phone to the shop at the end of business day.🤦♀️
Probably something more along the lines of the call early to make sure they had it, they say they're kind of backed up and will call when it's finished.
A bit over a week later, that's when you get nervous about it.
Or it's something like, well, I had a trip planned, and came home with no messages about it and nothing on the cell for the time away before calling in. My family has done that a few times when work needs some time and we have plans, I did it a couple times when I had work trips and something that could be done, but I arranged to have it done while I was gone because I wouldn't need it while I was gone and it meant I wasn't without a car when I had work
Sounds like thing would be fixed real quick if people were prosicuted for breaking the law.
The dealership is so shady and corruption. The saleman called the police on the reporter and the victim. I hope she sues the car dealership for fraud.
A used car dealership doing something shady? I’m shocked.
“Buy here pay here” what could go wrong getting a loan backed by a used car dealer probably a month away from going under on any given day?
I feel terrible for this poor woman.
Deff should be a felony
This is not a civil matter, a government that doesn't prosecute crimes is not a government. Theft is always a crime. Murder is always a crime. People have died over fried chicken, I'm just saying.
Theft IS always theft, and murder is always murder. However, not all homicide is murder, just like conversion is not theft. Take the time to educate yourself on the law and how it works. Crimes are not vague ideas, but extremely specific statutes. There are several forms of theft and conversion does not fit them; it is still a violation, but the recourse is civil because of the nature. That is why things like treble (triple) damages and legal fees can be included in cases like this; ultimately, she will get any attorney fees paid by the dealership, plus triple the money back! It makes it hurt businesses enough to really try not to, but not make a possible mistake of one worker thinking it was a trade in and selling it into a prison sentence.
@andycole5957 Oh, you sweet summer child, bless your heart.
Some general sales manager for sure said something along the lines of "I can sell anything" when told it was a customer's car.
This is a stolen car. It is a criminal issue. They need to go to jail.
The customer will be receiving a new vehicle, because the law requires replacement of equivalent replacement value. Since a 2005 is literally impossible to replace with a 2005 of identical value ...
They'll probably use the NADA value. She'll learn that the price she paid was probagly 3x to 4x the NADA retail price but the dealershikp will insist on the NADA wholesale prioce for restitution.
So, theft by conversion, and a fraudulent sale. Bet they sold it without disclosing the mechanical issues.
Perhaps it will be covered by an extended warranty the new owner purchases.
I bet they sold it under an "As is" contract. Those are really common in states like Florida(where I am) and others that have weak lemon laws.
12:00 but Steve if the car dealership is the lender, until the vehicle is paid off the lender has the title (due to the lean). So unless she paid off the vehicle, she wouldn't receive the title from the lean holder.
Mrs Henderson took her car to a Ford dealership a week before her warranty was to expire. Transmission was broken... She kept calling about when it would be ready..
8 days later they informed her the warranty ran out.. she had to pay them to replace the transmission.. Kentucky
Years ago a dealership let a buddy take a truck for a weekend test drive. He left his truck there. When he went back on monday they couldn't find his truck. The dealership sold it over the weekend so police were called. The cop told the GM of the dealership there will be a resolution or someone is going to jail. So my buddy got the new truck for what he still owed on the old truck. The GM took him into the office and had a drink with him. He had been in the industry for years and had never ever seen this.
How on Earth could they do such a thing without the title?
If the dealership was also the lender, they probably still had the title. I bought a car from a dealership that did the financing, and I didn't get the title until the car was paid off.
I don't understand how you can sell a car when it's not legally yours (no title).
Ben on the hood of the turbine unit .. :o)
They will claim she voluntarily repoed it. It broke and she brought it back not wanting it anymore. Even if it’s a lie that’s going to be their story!
If she was making payments, how would she have the title?
She wouldn't receive the title until the car was paid off
She didn't have the title, the dealership did because she hadn't paid it off yet.
No shit. That's how loans work. Still stealing on the part of the dealer.
@viperaaspis You didn't pay attention to the video, else you'd know why I said it. And stop liking your own comments.
Doesn't matter if she did or didn't own the title at the time and it was under the dealership instead, the dealership still broke several laws anyway by doing this as all she did was take it in for repairs even though the service warranty was no longer usable and she'd not missed any payments according to this news story which means they had zero legal right to actually do this (up to date payments do NOT give a dealership the right to sell the vehicle again as there's no financial issues that would ever warrant them doing this). Considering they also never even bothered to call her and ask if she was picking up the car, never notified her that they'd sold it until she asked where the hell did her car go and called the cops of the reporter instead of giving their version means they really DON'T want eyes on this and they know that they've really fucked up.
@MegaRazorback Beside my point.
$5995 for a 2005 Ford Taurus?? That's highway robbery
And I find it unbeliveable it actually had less than 12000 miles on it. So they sold her a bogus warantee as well. Unless it was 12000 over what was already on it.
@@DVankeuren No, that's incredibly normal. It's a 12k contract on the vehicle from the point of sale, not that the vehicle was warrantied until 12k miles. Manufacturer warranties are for x years/y mileage total and mostly apply to the car regardless of owner (buy a used vehicle with 30k miles, has a 60k mfr warranty, take it into dealership with mechanical/electric issues and it gets fixed), service contracts of whatever type are x miles from point of purchase and are a contract specific to the purchaser and have coverage outlined per the contract mostly through a third party service network (or specific to the shop that sold it.)
What's bizarre to me is how she drove over 12k miles in 5 months. That's a hell of a lot. But maybe the family is using it for uber eats/door dash type work which would make sense given the financial details of the story. Nothing wrong with driving a vehicle you paid for, just that's so many miles quickly.
The real crime is they paid $7000 for a 2005 Ford. It's worth $500.
Show me a car for sale for 500? Lol
No kidding, I see those old dogs on fb marketplace all the time around here 500-1800.
There was that lady a few years ago that paid almost $19k for a 98 escort...
I actually bought a Ford Taurus with 90k miles for $500. Not joking. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I really need to know how this all turns out. This seems too insane to be real. This is the kind of thing that would put your dealership out of business.
5900 for a 2005 ford taurus?? Sue them for ripping them off!