This Q&A blessed me. Thank you for your time in helping us to not only understand the scriptures more but to direct us TO the scriptures. Sola scriptura. God bless you.
1. παρουσια coming of the Lord (Matt 24:3 1 Thess 4:15) 2. Christ comes on a cloud (Matt 24:30 1 Thess 4:17) 3. resurrection occurs (Matt 24:31 Thess 4:16) 4. Rapture ( Matt 24:41 1 Thess 4:17) Same event total post trib
You do know that Jesus comes back after the tribulation. The pre tribulation rapture theory was made up 200 years ago. For the future generations to believe this lie. So that no one would be ready, for what is really coming. The end time events the bible speaks about, is gonna happen to us who are alive right now. Everything is happening. As you probably already know. I'm just trying to have a mutual respect for you or your or anyone beliefs. I tell everyone, look up When was the pre tribulation rapture theory made up. And it will let you know when it was made up almost 200 years ago. I think we are almost 2 years into the tribulation. September 15th 2020 President Trump signed a peace treaty with Israel. And shortly thereafter... all heck broke loose. Now I have had several people ask how did I come to this conclusion ect. It's what I have researched and read studied while everyone else is so busy in there lives. I have done outside the bible research as well. John Nelson Darby was an is wrong. To many people focus on expecting to just be raptured up. And that will not happen. The antichrist will be hologramed in the sky, in a project blue beam. NASA and the government have had this planned out for God only knows 40 50 years now. Its perfected. That even will happen probably within 5 years or less. You can mark my words or not. But I like to kinda guess or put a timeline because no one but the government and NASA actually knows when this event will take place. It is soon... And no one not even the son of God, Jesus, he will be back 7 years or is it 3 1/2 years after the antichrist is revealed. No one knows when that will take place. But we will know it is.soon after the antichrist is revealed. And he will fool hopefully not everyone, with the movie type of hologram that will be played all over the world when it happens. It will in my opinion, be like watching Jesus come back. Where I'm sure a trumpet will sound and the dead will rise. The may be an alien invasion faked. People will eventually be captured and we will have to take the mark of the beast, and if not, we will be tortured and killed. They can keep us for 10 days and then kill us. We should be praying that when these events do unfold, that they have the strength to get through it without cracking up and taking the mark of the beast. Then we know what happens if we get that. Like these forced vaccinations. Sound a little to familiar huh? Google everything I said. I didn't make this stuff up. I'm just sharing what I have learned. Is it is the bible? I think it says don't be fooled by any of the false profits and antichrist.
Hi David - I just found your channel and appreciate your direct, perceptive and straight forward perspective. You also kind of have a Richard Dreyfuss thing going on, which I feel kind of makes you even more interesting 🤔😁 Have you watched the documentary movie *_Before The Wrath?_* I'm wondering if you're a Calvary Chapel pastor or ...?
Every eye will see him. Where is this secret meeting in the clouds? Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
I am 80 years old and have held all four views on the time of the rapture. I now believe that my professor Dr. Culver of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School was correct in his belief that the mid-trib view is the correct view.
You make some very good points. Thanks. Just curious if you (or any Bible teacher you know of?) has responded to Joel Richardson's offer to debate anyone on the pre-tribulation rapture? (JR rejects pre-tribulationism as not being based on Scripture)
Also, take a look at Edward Irving, prior to Darby. He brought back the teaching of the gathering together of the saints and also the revelation of the mystery of the one body of Christ.
@@KeepitoriginalministryI just watched this debate recently and as someone who holds to a pre trib rapture standing, I was surprised by some interesting points on the post trib side of the discussion. Namely that 1) Jesus calls us to a life where we will experience suffering. And that the pre trib rapture is to escape the suffering to come. He referenced the Israel being protected in the land of Goshen and Noah being within the ark. That they went thru that time yet possessed Gods protection. 2) that we are not "appointed to wrath" (1Thes) yet some are storing up wrath (the unsaved) for the Day of Wrath (Rom2:5). Interesting, points here yet could heaven, his saints being called up to meet Him in the air, be the taking away 'to the land of Goshen' for protection and is also the ark by which we shall not experience this outpouring? Also I wonder nothing was acknowledged either regarding the 'bowls of wrath' that shall be poured out. I Thank God for Joe Shimmel, he's done some amazing videos pointing out Satan's obvious work yet Im not too sure I would entirely agree with his points or stance. Would love to hear Pastor David's thoughts on this.
@austinbodiford6360 - I can't suggest *_Strongly Enough_* for you to watch the documentary movie titled: *_Before The Wrath_* which is available on TUBi or other apps/TV sites It does such a good job answering the questions we have as people who want to know and trust The *Truth!* Please go watch it, it's*SO* well done!
Daniel was told he stand in his lot at the end. Apostle Paul taught what Jesus said in Matthew 24th chapter, Paul also had to clarify with the saints in Thessalonian that the catching away of the saints has not happened until a falling away and the antichrist is revealed. The Day of the Lord is the coming of the Lord, no where is there Biblical scripture to fit in the Old or New. Testament about pre tribulation if we follow what Christ taught we'll read at the end of the great tribulation, but no one knows the day or hour of the rapture
Amen brother! That's why they are changing the meaning of _apostasia_ to a "physical departure" to get around that. Basically having Paul say the rapture can't happen until the rapture happens.
I absolutely love and respect your commentaries. As much as I want the pre-trib rapture to be the correct interpretation I just don't see it in Scripture but I definitely don't believe the details of eschatology should divide believers.
Thanks for writing in. Thanks for your honest words! Maybe this can help shad a bit more light on the topic. I hope that this helps. enduringword.com/bible-commentary/1-thessalonians-4/
No Scripture in context actually does teach a pretrib rapture. Look at the context and see if you aren't bringing ideas to the text from someplace else. I promise you, you are.
Well let's see 2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 rev 3 10 luke 21 36 john 14 1 3 isaiah 26 19 21 1st Corinthians 15 50 55 is what happens in 1st thessalonians 4 16 18. Now show me any scripture that says the church is protected through Daniels 70th week? And what scripture says the rapture occurs at the second coming. Before you answer examine closely mathew 24 29 31 and 1st thessalonians 4 16 18 whats the difference between the two?
@@tonyeaton671 Jesus only spoke of only ONE resurrection of BOTH the good and the evil when He returns (John 5:28-29; so did Paul who said in 1 Cor 15:23-24, “But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; THEN all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. AFTER THAT THE END WILL COME (no 7-year period in between), when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.” The meeting Paul speaks about in 1 Cor 15:50-55 occurs. AT THE END not pre or mid- trib. Second, “The timing of the resurrection of the saints or rapture is best understood as occurring at the visible second coming of Christ instead of at a secret return some years prior is because Paul indicates it as such in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. The Greek word parousia, meaning “presence,” “arrival,” or “coming,” is used to refer to the second coming of Christ throughout the New Testament (Matt. 24:27 (where Jesus talked about his parousia being visible to all (one which would be as obvious as lightning flashing in the east and shining in the west); 1Cor. 15:23; Jas. 5:8; 1Jn. 2:28 ).” Many pre-trib proponents rely heavily on 1 Thessalonians 4:15, the rapture passage, where Paul sates that those who are left alive “until the coming of the Lord” will be caught up together with those who have been raised from the dead to meet the Lord in the air. However, “the specific term he uses in verse 15 is parousia. Those who affirm a two-stage secret return of Christ to rapture the church prior to or during the tribulation see this parousia as a distinct first stage of his second return. The problem with this interpretation is that everywhere else parousia occurs in the Thessalonian correspondence it unambiguously refers to the visible return of Christ to the earth (1Thes. 2:19; 3:13; 5:23; 2Thes. 2:1, 8). In 1 Thessalonians 3:13, refers to “coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints,” which clearly indicates the second coming. In addition, parousia is used in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, when Paul declares that the Lord Jesus will defeat of the man of lawlessness by “the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” If both of these examples refer to his actual second coming to earth, there is absolutely nothing in the context to suggest that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 should be taken any differently as all the other instances of parousia in Thessalonians. As such, Paul clearly seems to conceive of the resurrection of the saints and the catching up of the believers to meet the Lord in the air occurring at the same time Christ is visibly coming back to the earth and not a secretive stealing away of the church several years before he actually returns at the end of the age.” Finally, the Bible doesn’t equate tribulation with wrath or condemnation. On the contrary, Jesus promised his disciples and all those in Christ who would come after them trials and tribulations (John 16:33); James taught that God sends tribulations and trials to his people to refine them (James 1:2-4). If Christians are to be spared the Great Tribulation because God doesn’t want them to suffer, then please explain what we are to make of Christian martyrs throughout the church age, our brothers and sisters in Syria, Afghanistan, Northern Nigeria, etc. (who faced/are facing terrible persecution under ISIL, the Taliban, Bomi Haram, etc.)? Are they candidates for God’s wrath different from other believers? My point is that the church’s presence during the great tribulation does not mean that it will be subject to God’s wrath and the idea of a magical spiriting away of the saints during the Great Trib has little or no Scriptural backing.
@@Foodie.Mommie ok so your saying the rapture occurs at the second coming. If thats the case how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies? Who ENTERS into the millennial kingdom and who does not? Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this? Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well?
@@tonyeaton671 i might as well also ask if all the wicked and unbelieving people and armies are slain and destroyed at the end of Rev19 when Jesus returns, why would Satan need to be bound - who is opposing Christ and his rule, where does the mighty army in Rev 19 come from? Your questions and mine are reasons why my eschatological leanings are amillennial - I do not believe in a LITERAL 1000 year millennium after Christ returns - and i don’t think the timeline or chronology in Revelation is linear. I believe the 1000 years is symbolic of the church age in which Satan’s rule has been bound and defeated (not completely) through the breaking forth of God’s kingdom and advancement of the gospel. I will admit that none of the eschatological views is water-tight or perfect, not even amillenialism - I just think that it makes the most sense in view of all that Jesus, the apostles (including Revelation) and the OT prophets said. But while I lean closer to the amillennial view than any other (including post trib premillennialism) I just cannot see a case or Scriptural backing for Christ return pre or mid trib to remove the church from the Great Tribulation or a secret return.
@@Foodie.Mommie ok then you have to answer that question as to how the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all believers recieve their glorified bodies at the second coming! You say we're in the millennium right now. But scripture clearly says during the millennial kingdom there will be now wars people will turn their weapons into pruning sheers that tge age will increase isaiah 65 20 animals will be dosel isaiah 11 6 8 no more infant death that the government will be upon Jesus shoulders that jesus will reign on earth from king davids throne in Jerusalem isaiah 9 6 7 rev 20 4 6 rev 5 9 10 There will be a third temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem israel 2nd thessalonians 2 4 rev 11 There will be a 4th temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem israel its called the millennial temple or Ezekiels temple Ezekiel chapters 40 through 45 Has satan been cast into the bottomless pit yet ? No he is in the second heaven he is ruler of this world right now. In order for the theology your following to be truth you have to be able to put people without glorified bodies into the millennial kingdom. How does that happen if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies? Who enters into the millennial kingdom and who does not?.do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this? Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well? And why does rev 20 say 6 times a thousand years. And where in the bible does it give anyone permission to allorigize and spiritualize Gods word. Was jesus first coming physical or spiritual? If you accept his first coming as physical why do you not accept his second coming as physical? Do you have a glorified body right now? These are questions you need to answer
Pastor David when I read scripture regarding tribulation the interpretation I get is that the 1 half is Satan's wrath against Israel and the church, where as the day of the Lord or Great tribulation in the last 3 1/2 yrs is God's wrath against unbelievers. So can you explain this to me because it seems to me the last Trumpet when we join Christ in the air is when Jesus returns to pour out His wrath which we will be delivered from but believers will be here for the wrath of Satan in beginning of tribulation.
Scripture says we are not appointed to his wrath romans 5 9 1st thessalonians 5 9 1st thessalonians 1 10. Jesus is the only one worthy to break the seals to give the command for the trumpets to be blown and bowls to be poured out all 21 judgments are his wrath The seven year tribulation period is daniels 70th week daniel 9 24 says 70 weeks are decreed for your people and holy city daniels people are israel jews the 12 tribes. The church is not israel we did not replace israel. That is replacement theology
You are mostly correct in your interpretation. The Pre-Trib rapture is a square peg in a round hole which has so many holes in it, it can't hold water. The bible clearly states the wrath of satan through anti-christ happens actually at the midpoint of the 7 years when anti-christ declares himself to be God. Then the saints of god (believers) will be delivered up for persecution....'to captivity or by sword' though some will escape both. Then before the trumpet and bowl judgements, the saints are raptured as the King returns and the wrath of the Lamb/the wrath of God begins. Hence a pre-'Gods' wrath rapture/second coming. One event. David is trying desperately to justify what is not biblical. Read for yourselves, saints and may the Holy Spirit reveal the truth to your hearts and minds.
Rox, You do understand that Satan can and has tested man since the beginning job was tested by satan Peter was tested by satan so to say the first half of daniels 70th week is satans wrath is in error all 21 judgments are Gods wrath un earth dwellers rev 5 shows that jesus is the only one worthy to break the seals if he is breaking the seals they are his wrath
Dear Tony Eaton, Revelation says Jesus opened the seal that contained prophecy on Eschathology. It didn't say Jesus gave the commands for the trumpet to be blown or bowls to be poured. Dear, we do not need to forge the bible to mean a view that it doesn't.
I was raised in a Pentecostal church and of course hearing about the rapture of the church before the tribulation and would be in heaven for seven years celebrating our wedding with Jesus Christ and receiving our rewards. About 7 yrs ago God open my mind and started studying the Bible and testing everything. First of all many don’t pay attention to one of the signs Jesus told the apostles regarding his second coming. That sign is about a man coming in the spirit of the prophet Elijah, to restore all things. In another verse It says this individual would come during the six Holy Roman Empire after the 5 and before the seven and final resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire. But sadly he would be ignored and make fun off, ect. He left us several books which after his death were contested in the Supreme Court of the USA for seven yrs. One of the doctrines he said was incorrect was the rapture of the church before tribulation, another doctrine is that the church did not replace Israel. Israel has always been the church made up of Israelites, Jews and gentiles. Another was the identity who is Israel today and it is not the Jews our brothers. Genesis 48 tells us who inherited the birthright promise and the right to the name Israel. Our brothers the Jews no doubt are Israelites but the majority of Israelites are not Jews. Another’s was that one of the main reasons Jesus Christ came the first time was to find or reconcile with the lost sheep of the house of Israel; known to Christianity as the lost ten tribes of Israel. Jews ( Judah, Benjamin and Levi) are the kingdom or house of Judah of Judea. And so many other doctrines many churches are in disagreement with. One of those is the name of all this churches and denomination. God did not create confusion and Jesus simply said that the church is Gods. So any church should be name the church of God. ……. This servant of God was Herbert W. Armstrong.
Pre-tribulation is false doctrine and no matter how old of a source you think you have it is still false teaching. These sources are spurious either taken out of context and/or from false teachers. Since you mentioned, The Shepherd of Hermas, which was used to promote Catholic doctrine, until it was no longer useful because of Hermas’ Christology and Donatist views. So do you believe the rest of Hermas' teachings? Received from a woman/goddess/ later called an angel that accused him and then later repented of that accusation ( Bearing false witness) and gave him a book then took it back to change it. Hermas did not receive this, from the Lord Jesus Christ, who come in the flesh yet He is without sin.
we all are looking and waiting for Jesus to come back! The Bible clearly teaches that He will! The Bible also teaches us that if he did not come back sooner, that no flesh shall be saved. It is up to us to be prepared for the dark days ahead. If we believe that we will be taken out before trouble hits, that makes us a foolish virgin without enough oil to last should the groom tarry. Read the Matthew 25. Why do they need oil for their lamps if they were not going to face darkness, should the lord tarry? Why would the Lord tarry? Read Revelation knowing that we are the "saints"! We are persecuted for having the testimony of Jesus! How much oil will we need to get through that? Pre tribbers, dont think they need any oil to face the darkness.
The place where the expression "great tribulation" is utilized is in Revelation, chapter 7. John, beholding "a great multitude" (v. 9) of white robed people praising God around His throne and before the Lamb, is told: "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (v. 14). But "out of" surely does not mean to be removed from; rather these believers have endured "the great tribulation" and have now come out of it, praising God and the Lamb. Here again "great tribulation" seems to refer to what happens upon the whole earth (see the opening words of Rev. 7) and the protection of believers, rather than their escape, during this time.
Couldn’t watch ‘live’, but have a question I’ve been thinking about. What is the difference between immortality and eternal life? Thanks, Pastor, for reading my question. Pray you have an answer.
I think it's kinda like the difference between being married and being engaged. We _have_ eternal life in the sense that it is promised to us.* (John 3:16) We _will_ have immortality when we are promoted to glory. (1 Cor 15) *Promised to those who remain in Christ.
Follow the Resurrections the resurrections mentioned in the Old Testement are ALL Post-Trib Job19:25-26; Daniel 12:1-2; Isa 25:6-9; Isa 26:17-20 these resurrections occur after the tribulation. So how do we reconcile the the pretrib resurrection and the OT resurrection also Consider this Rev 20:4-5 the first resurrection which includes tribulation saints
Thanks for your comments. The passage in Job doesn't conclusively say when Job expected to see God. It only states that he (rightly) had that expectation. The Daniel 12 passage is not conclusive and could be pointing to the beginning of the last seven years, which many believe starts with the Rapture of the church. The Isaiah passages are not conclusive either. Clearly there will be a resurrection, but it is obviously debatable when it will occur. Regarding Revelation 20:4-5, here are some thoughts... This is the first resurrection: If the first resurrection is a singular event, it argues well for a post-tribulation rapture, because it implies that all saints receive their resurrection bodies at the same time, immediately before the rule and reign of Jesus Christ. This is the first resurrection: If the first resurrection is an order or class encompassing previously dead believers (who are at once with the Lord), the raptured church (already in heaven), and saints from the Great Tribulation, then the idea fits in a pre-tribulation framework. Donald Barnhouse says of the phrase first resurrection: “It must be especially emphasized that our phrase in the Apocalypse covering this resurrection is a retrospect that looks back over all three phases (of resurrection).” “‘The ‘first resurrection’ is not an event but an order of resurrection including all the righteous who are raised from the dead before the millennial kingdom begins.” (Walvoord) The challenging thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet, so we need to study and arrive at our best conclusions and give grace to others who disagree. Thanks for your thoughts. Blessings in Jesus.
One of the best teachings on the “Harpazo” is the typology of the “Betrothal” and consummation of the Jewish Wedding (Ketubah) explained in the most detail by Chuck Missler. A man and woman was “Engaged” as we would say today, then the man(Bridegroom) would leave his Bride for a indeterminate time to build a room addition in his FATHERS house. Then after a time NOT known the Bridegroom would return for his bride (Typically @ midnight or a later unexpected timeframe) with a shout of his betrothed name and the wedding and subsequent feast would begin. The bride and maidens were to BE ready for the Bridegroom to return at anytime (Parable of the 10 Virgins). David clearly pointed out that The Lord will focus certain things that are important to HIS Church in it's proper timing, none of the last days teaching was literally applicable as Israel did NOT occupy their homeland from 70AD till 1948. The tribulation is NOT for the Church, it is for the remnant of Israel to be saved (One out of three Jews) known as Jacob’s trouble and the final judgement of Christ rejecting people individually and collectively as nations. One person nailed it that anti pre - trib people almost as a whole are angry and savagely attack other believers when these doctrinal differences are NOT salvation qualifiers and yet everyone I have debated on this subject could not argue from rightly divided scripture but from denominational bias or from “Their Pastor told them”.
In addition, Paul had to remind the Thessalonian Church what he had taught them before, as they were upset they had missed the “Harpazo” and were IN the tribulation. Why be upset if the doctrine Paul taught them was that they would be caught away in the tribulation or at the end of it?....... the answer is because he didn’t teach them that and Paul ends his point after telling them that the Great Apostasy needed to happen first then the Anti-Christ would be revealed only after that and to comfort each other with this doctrine. No comfort in going through the worst time in all of human history by far and Jesus emphasized this greatly. Persecution has been pointed by Satan at believers from the beginning but the tribulation is and will be God’s wrath coming down on people that will make anything that has happened pale in comparison!.
@@Rambert3 how is it God's Wrath technically? It will a temporary time that the antichrist will have to rage rampage on Earth, *Then* God's Judgement will come and He will Purify Earth.
@@misterbobby8913 Go read Romans 10-12 Paul explains in detail The Lord is not done with the Jewish people, the tribulation is “Jacob’s trouble” and that will have the nation of Israel as a whole and individually petition Jesus personally and acknowledge him as their Messiah. Of course if your reply is to argue on and on against a pre - trib rapture I will not engage so know that.
1 Corinthians 3:11 Did Jesus quote Old Testament scripture to prove the things that he taught? Or did he quote the Old Testament scripture because it bore witness of the Truth that he taught? Example: does John 3:16 need Isaiah 53 to prove that it is true? Or does Isaiah 53 bare witness of the Truthfulness of John 3:16? Lastly, in light of the previous 3 scripture references, moreover the 1st; what then do you with the letters to the churches in revelation, revelation 1:8, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, 2 Thessalonians; all in light of Matthew 24? In particular concerning the phrase; “the end”?… Is Christ divided? Thanks for your time sir, Amos Warner 1:00:50
im not going to lie. I honestly don't know where i am with this. Im inclined to believe in post. only because of the clear visible scripture eluding to it.. I get where you were trying to go with sections of scripture that may elude to pre or post. my question is this. if in scripture the texts are clear and concise pointing to post, but kind of ambiguous, and eluding what isn't clear about pre, I'm going to go right into that mystery rapture idea as well. and its kind of difficult to blame someone for going to that comment. you know? and i understand that it doesn't say triune, or trinity in the bible. but there are clear elemental factors that show us the trinity. and give a wonderful easy to understand explanation.... all I'm saying is the explanation for post from the bible doesn't make it difficult to put together a collective thought about what it means, but pre i am sorry to say it even though you reject it does sound like some mystery secret rapture. One thing i don't have to worry about is my salvation. what i chose to believe about this is not a deal breaker... one thing i love about my Lord and King is he created me to use my brain, and ask difficult questions. not trying to offend. Like a true follower i think its important to have your beliefs in order as so, we can give the hope that is within is...Shalom. .... i have to scratch my head on this. ... i want to believe in what i believe because of evidence not because it sounds awesome, or because it offends the sensibilities...
It doesn’t matter if the theory was from 200 years ago or if any of the early church fathers taught it. Those things don’t matter, the early church fathers taught error too, so age doesn’t matter. The question should be, do the scriptures teach a pretrib rapture? And that answer is, No. study the scriptures very carefully and study the Greek in reference to the second coming. Only by changing the words in English can you get a pretrib rapture. In Greek it makes no sense.
The study of prophecy is an area where we all need to study, and then come to our own convictions, and go e grace to others who come to different conclusions. We need to disagree graciously and kindly. The thing about prophecy is this: it hasn't happened yet, so we will see which theory of eschatology comes to pass. Until then, let;'s disagree in love and grace. Blessings.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord I agree about civility in the discussion of eschatology, I don’t feel I was rude in any way, unless you consider me disagreeing and saying pretribulation is wrong to be rude. I grew up in the doctrine of pretrib. I didn’t know there was even any other way to think about it. It’s all I ever knew, until I started actually studying my Bible in earnest. Every time I would come across pretrib passages in complete context of the book and chapter they never seemed quite right. They did not seem to fit as perfectly as I’d been taught when only looking at the verse out of context. At first I chalked it up to me just not understanding because the Bible is so complex and the teachers, preachers and book authors were all so much more educated and smarter than I was. Then after years of studying the Bible I started to understand that it wasn’t hard to understand because I wasn’t able to comprehend it. It was hard to understand because the doctrine doesn’t work when you and is full of holes when you place it in full context. Not only is the history of the church full of tribulation and persecution, Paul says it is granted to the Philippian church to suffer for Jesus. “Granted” I know that doesn’t teach well on a Sunday but it’s the truth. Most pretribbers defend the doctrine with so called “types” in scripture rather than with scripture. Like using Enoch or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego as types or shadows of the pretrib rapture. Or the famous Jewish wedding ceremony….I have yet to have one person that teaches that give me an original source for that story. It is actually made up. It comes from 3 or 4 different Jewish sources that someone back in the 80’s mashed all together and it became popular in the church….I remember it was in the late 80’s or early 90’s when I first heard it. I still don’t feel like I’ve been rude in this response. I have attacked you or you church. I’ve just said things against what I believe is a bad doctrine.
@@onehappydawg We will just disagree on our interpretations. As far as civility, you have an undercurrent of presumptuous accusation and finality in your words. You may not realize it, but when you say things like... "I know that doesn't teach well on a Sunday, but that's the truth". That communicates the following... Whoever teaches on the Rapture does it because is convenient and easy. If they disagree with you, they are wrong. (but it's truth) Therefore, you close the door to discussion or gracious debate. You say Mot pre-cribbers have a mash up of analogies, etc. How many have you listened to? It :feels" like you lump all pre-cribbers into one basket. My point is this: there are many great Bible scholars that could tech circles around both of us, and they respectfully disagree with one another without an undertone of disrespect or assumption. Instead of using scripture to present your point of disagreement, you refer to the failings or pre-tribe teachers, and assign to them different reasons why they teach what they teach. That is assigning motive, and that's not wise. As I said, we will disagree on this. Blessings to you in Jesus' name.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord ok, so I guess we’ll have to disagree on what civility in debate means. How about just scripture. First, one the most popular verse used in PTR, we are not appointed unto wrath. Which I agree we are not, because the scriptures say we are not. And every pretrib teacher I have listened to over the years, and I have listened to a lot and have read a lot of their books, say this wrath that we are not appointed to is God’s wrath. Which again, I agree. The tribulation is not the wrath of God. So the church can go through it. Read Revelation 12:12-17 “…Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time…..the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ…” The tribulation is the wrath of satan. Those that have the testimony of Jesus(that is believers, the church) Now, how about pretrib doctrine. Pretrib doctrine says that the seven seals in Revelation 6 are the beginning of God’s judgment on the earth. But, read seal 5 carefully, what does it say: “…I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God…they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” They specifically ask God how long will it be before your judgment begins. God doesn’t reply to them, “Can’t you see my judgment has already begun?” No, they are told to wait awhile longer till the rest of their brethren are killed like they were. Is God killing them in His judgment? No. It makes no sense to say that the seals are judgment seals when in the seals themselves God is asked when His judgment would start.
@@onehappydawg Here are some verses from Revelation about the wrath of God. The word "wrath" appears 13 times in Revelation. 10 times it speaks of the wrath of God. 2 times it speaks of the wrath of Babylon. 1 time it speaks of the wrath of the devil. It seems clear that in Revelation, the emphasis given to the word "wrath" points us to the wrath of God. Revelation 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Revelation 6:17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” Revelation 14:9-119 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Revelation 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. Revelation 15:7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. Revelation 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.” Revelation 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. Revelation 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. -------------------------- Another thing you mentioned was the idea of those under the altar asking God to avenge their deaths. You wrote... Now, how about pretrib doctrine. Pretrib doctrine says that the seven seals in Revelation 6 are the beginning of God’s judgment on the earth. But, read seal 5 carefully, what does it say: “…I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God…they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” The entire passage reads like this... 9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. It seems clear to me that those under the altar were asking for judgment top be completed. It had begun, but was not yet completed. The "avenging" had begun, but was not yet complete. It seems that they asked a question, and were told to be patient, because the judgment had begun but was not yet complete. Therefore, the seal are seals of judgment against a God rejecting world. Hope this helps. Blessings in Jesus!
Yes, it was concocted about 200 years ago, and it takes a lot of explaining to teach it. I compare scripture with scripture, no one has a problem with parallel passages, that say the same things, if people would simply compare scripture with scripture and look at the common elements that would go a long way towards finding the truth. Acts 1:11 and 1Thes 4:16-17 speak of the rapture, these verses contain elements. 1: Jesus was seen leaving and a cloud received Him out of their sight, also Angels were present, and is coming back in the same manner. 2: For the Lord, himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, we shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air So we have Jesus returning in the clouds with the sound of the archangel and a trumpet, as those are the elements listed in those verses. it should be obvious when we see common elements across various scriptures that they are speaking of the same event. is God really trying to trick us with complicated dogmas that need much explaining, or did God intend His word too be simple so that even those of low education could read and understand it. When Jesus spoke to the common people He taught in a manner they could understand using everyday ordinary things to teach spiritual things, salt, plow, sower, seed, everyday common things that the people could understand. if those preaching the pre-trib rapture have to go around the moon three times to explain the pre-trib rapture what does that say when Jesus did not do it that way? Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven, Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? these things will take place exactly as they have been laid out. oh and by the way, Revelation comes with a dire warning. Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Anyone including myself that adds or taketh away from the Book of Revelation is subject to the judgments pronounced at the end of the book, if you claim that Rev 4:1 is the rapture of the church and it is not, then you have added or taketh away from that book and are subject to the pronouncements concerning that book.
@@coleensmith4089 well he’s incorrect but that’s his right to believe any way he chooses. It is in scripture. Preconceived beliefs are nearly impossible to overcome. There have been and will be multiple raptures already in Gods word. Enoch, Elijah , Jesus, church saints, two witnesses. So today it’s not there is scary.
@@seasquawker Yes I see that too. I have looked at some of the advanced robotics, and there are three humans that I know of who have a robot body double, the most prominant would be Dr. Hiroshi Ishiguro - Robot Science Made in Japan his gemenoid is an almost exact replica of himself. For me, the abomination of desolation Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 1: and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 2: and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, 3: stand in the holy place, 4: standing where it ought not I believe that the abomination of desolation will be an exact duplicate of the beast, a robot placed, set up, stand in the holy place, standing where it ought not and this robot with 5G will be able to call up information on any person in the world and say life or death for that person. we are already past a deadline I wondered about, the fig tree Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. The Jews became a Nation on may 14th 1948, Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. If a generation is 70-80 years, then the 80 years would end on may 14 2028, we are well into 2022 so that timeline is already off. the date would have been from may 14 2021 - may 14 2028 But there is another way of counting generations, Mat 1:1 -17 I do not think that each begotten followed a precise year count, but each one was a generation when the son was born. they could all fall in differing intervals of years, so that does not help me. All I know is that the Generation that saw the rebirth of Israel as a nation will not pass till all be fulfilled. how long that generation is considered to be I do not know, maybe that is a good thing to keep more people from date setting.
Okay I do t get why he’s saying if it is in the Bible it’s true! Pretrib doesn’t have a single scripture in the Bible. It never was taught until Darby taught it! There is not any scripture! Therefore pretrib is unbiblical
I do know this. The Left Behind movies , the first one, released on Halloween October 31, 2000 and Ground Hog Day on Feb 2, 2001. It was the theatrical release. Ground Hog Day is referred to Bosnia and sending troops to Iraq. I find this to be a very odd day to release a Christian movie based on sound doctrine.
Okay so I keep coming back to this question myself, and I'm confused haha... The scripture Guzik shares here is 1Thessalonians 4:15-16, and it describes the rapture/resurrection... But it doesn't say WHEN that resurrection happens. Unless I'm missing something, but in chapter 4 of Thessalonians Paul is comforting the church, and encouraging them to rejoice for the ones they've lost-- for they will be resurrected again one day (the Day of our Lord). But I'm not seeing WHEN that's supposed to happen... Jesus speaks of two women grinding at the mill, one disappearing and the other getting left behind... Is that the rapture He's talking about? If so, He doesn't mention when, exactly, that will happen. And in Revelation the beast is getting people to take the mark (chpr 13) before Jesus returns (chpr 14). Not arguing, btw-- just genuinely curious! Guzik has far more education on the Bible than I do, I'm a baby Christian still learning how to walk 🙂 but is there a scripture that definitively says the rapture will happen BEFORE the tribulation? Also, how do we know the tribulation will last 7 years? Personally I'm preparing myself for either outcome... It seems like the smartest thing to do since there's so much disagreement over it lol
TJR, thanks for the comment and the question. You're right - the 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't speak directly to the timing of the "catching away" of God's people and the resurrection of believers. It's a matter of bringing together other passages, and this is one reason why Christians who love Jesus and take the Bible seriously can have different opinions about this. If you want a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the rapture/catching away of the church, check this out: th-cam.com/video/2QiXG7bpKec/w-d-xo.html Finally, I agree with you completely - the smartest thing to do is to be watching and ready for the return of Jesus!
tjr you are welcome to watch my video on the subject. I hope it clears things up because scripture is constantly used to back up every statement, and we can know certainly that the tribulation occurs after the sixth seal - so it is a post tribulation but pre-wrath rapture event
I like Mr. Guzik's answer in that it is representative of ALL pre-trib pastors who must bring together lots of other passages, not one of which is definitive, such as Rev. 4:1, which they determined is symbolic of the rapture. YOU CAN'T MAKE A DOCTRINE THIS SERIOUS without plain scripture, at least ONE, that says we will not go thru this terrible end-time testing of the saints. Remember Martha speaking to Jesus, says, "I know that he (Lazarus) shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." He did not contradict her. We will all rise on that last day, the dead first, then the rest of the saints. Pre-tribbers are not ready for the trib, the worst time ever on the earth, but we who take the Bible for what it says are ready for the worst OR the easy way out. Makes sense to be ready for either.
@@2027Judah the seals are Gods wrath. Christ has to open them. Those seal judgements are absolute wrath and devastation. 1/4 of earth dies in seal 4. Prewrath fits better than mid and post but still misses the mark.
Tjr timing 2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 it says we are taken out of the way then the man of sin antichrist is revealed and when does the bible say the antichrist is revealed rev 6 1 2 that is when the antichrist confirms the covenant with many for one week so according to God's word we have to be raptured before the antichrist is revealed and rev 6 1 2 is when the antichrist is revealed so the church has to be raptured before rev 6 1 2 also daniel 9 24 says the seventy weeks are for israels redemption it doesnt say anything about the church
So Jesus said he was coming back two more times? Scripture please. And yes this theory started in the 1800’s. Scripture in no way teaches about a magic carpet ride
Dear Jimmy, The difficult thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! The best that we can do is to study and then connect different prophetic passages and come to an honest conclusion. I believe that we can still have fellowship with believers that may have a different eschatology than we do, and we need to have grace toward one another in that regard. Prophecy is a bit like a mosaic. We keep filling it in with different passages and try to understand what we are being told. God bless you as you continue to study God's word!
When Jesus comes the second time He will appear to those who love Him. Hebr 9:28. This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.( Second time.Acts 1:11.) When Jesus comes the second time He will descent from Heaven and we will meet Him in the air.( 1Thes 4:16). When Jesus comes the second time we will be gathering together unto Him.(2 Thes 2:1). When Jesus comes the second time He will come in flaming fire and vengeance to those unbelievers who had fallen away from the truth and then Jesus will be glorified in his saints in that day.(2Thes 1:8,10). Before Jesus comes the second time a falling away from the truth must take place for the antichrist to be revealed.(2Thes 2:3) When Jesus comes the second time He will destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming and those who had fallen away from the truth..(2Thes 2:8,10). Nobody is going to disappear (raptured) before Jesus comes the second time.
2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 says otherwise it says we are taken out of the way then the man of sin antichrist is revealed. And when does the bible say the antichrist is revealed rev 6 1 2 The rider on the white horse is the antichrist it says he is given a crown and a bow but no arrows why? Because he conquers through peace not war daniel 11 21 confirms this it says he comes in peaceably and daniel 11 22 says he is the prince of the covenant, what covenant? The only covenant spoken of in daniel is the covenant in daniel 9 27 he the antichrist will confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the middle of the week he the antichrist will cause sacrifice and offering to stop. That is the abomination of desolation that is when the antichrist will sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself to be god So your in error when you say nobody is going to disappear. The other problem you have is if the rapture occurs at the second coming as you are saying how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies ? You cant put a single person without a glorified body into the millennial kingdom. Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this? Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well? If you can show how the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom with a second coming rapture then please share it id love to know
Hey pastor. Even Daniel 12:4-9 denies the false accusations of a new teaching of the 19th century. We know Daniel is parallel with revelation. what did God tell Daniel? SEAL THESE WORDS UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END. This is because early on people just couldn’t understand about end time escathology. The bible clearly says this things are kept secret until the time of the end. Today we have enough history and technology to understand well enough about end times. What do you think of this?
The Bible gives us much teaching about future events, and as time unfolds, things often become more clear. An example of that was God's plan for the church, was given to Paul to explain more clearly than had been previously understood. The idea that Jews and Gentiles would make up the church wasn't an idea that was clearly understood in the Old Testament, so that is an example of "progressive revelation". As time passes, things become more clear. That also applies to the teachings on "the last days". We should study to show ourselves as approved workmen unto God, and of course that includes prophecy. The things shown to Daniel were probably not as clear to Daniel as they are to us. We have the added benefit of more revelation through the New Testament teachings. I hope that this helps!
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord Yes! God Knew back when John finished writing the book of revelation 20 centuries ago that it wasn’t time yet to focus on escathology because it was the beginning of the church age. Now 2000 years later we are approaching more and more to the end and it’s the right time. The darby argument is irrelevant because i too believe that God’s revelation is progressive. Just because it wasn’t taught as much before doesn’t mean it’s not true. Post trib people are so mean and they even threaten us that we’re going to hell for believing in pre trib. I can’t understand why they’re like this.
AT THE RAPTURE; the instant removal of the bride to meet our Lord above earth where we will receive an imperishable sinless body like that of Jesus Christ.1 Cor. 15:51-57. First, church believers who died will arise to be at His side, and then those alive on Earth following them up (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). The Lord calls us from above Earth. I believe the Holy Spirit in us HEARS and actually removes us to His side! Our sin nature, Romans 3:23, is supernaturally removed (by The Holy Spirit) and our sanctification (being holy) is completed as is our salvation so we can go to Heaven. Phil. 1:6. We are NOT appointed to God's wrath! 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; Romans 5:8-9. The bride of Christ will not go through "Tribulation" when God judges the lost world left behind. No longer will evil be restrained as one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9. The bride is complete & home. That opens the door for the appearance of anti-Christ; Satan in human form! TIMING OF RAPTURE See John 14:3; Titus chapter 2:verses 11-15; Revelation 3:10 It is "IMMINENT"! "Maranatha" ("He comes") was the greeting to one another in the just formed church. They looked for Jesus to come in their time! WE TOO! Only God knows the time the last Christian is saved! JESUS SAVES Blood coming from all over his body and NAKED hanging on that cross like torture weapon! What a Lord and God and Savior! He had to do it. HE is God the Son and only His body and blood could pay the sins price of ALL ever! 1 John 2:1-2. This channel is a blessing known to God before the world was made. Ephesians 1:1-14 2 Samuel chapter 22:verse 50 "Therefore I will praise you, O Lord, out of the countries, and I will praise your name." There is a CROWN in Heaven awaiting all who share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and a soul is saved. See 1 Thessalonians 2: "19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 20 For you are our glory and joy." Philippians 4:1. Mark 16: verse 15: And He said unto them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. How can anyone hear the "good" news? Romans 10:17 Then faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God. The Birth Of Jesus Christ Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the LORD shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and call His name Immanuel." Hebrew: עִמָּנוּאֵל, "God with us" in human flesh but without sin. The Savior of the world was born to die for our sins! He did so 33 years later. His terrible ordeal, the body was mutilated, the blood was poured out, but the bones were not broken, buried in a Tomb and risen on the 3rd day. Isaiah 53: "5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 "I am the way, the truth and the life: no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14.6 "1 Corinthians 15: 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;." Ephesians 1:7 Matthew 26:28 "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins and rescue us from eternal death. Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting in His death and in the shedding of His blood as payment for our sins, as well as in His burial and resurrection from the dead the third day, and we will be saved! John 20:24-31; See 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4. Romans 10: 9 If you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart man believes in righteousness; And a confession by mouth is given to salvation. 13 For the one who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Salvation and forgiveness of sins is a blessing of all who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. We receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately which seals us in Christ Ephesians 1:13-14. Those who reject salvation, "perish"(John 3:16) which means their sins are judged and suffer separation from God forever called the second death. Rev.21:8
Yes David. I’ve been called pagan and a child of Satan for believing in pre trib. I love all people and I don’t agree with the Christians who believe in mid or post but I love them and I don’t want to fight. That’s not Christian like. If it’s in the Bible we want it. If it’s not, we don’t. Amen 🙏
Christ argued with pharisees and was most harsh with rebuking their beliefs. Where is the word rapture in the Bible? If it’s in the Bible, we want it. If it’s not, we don’t. I agree there. Matthew 24:29-31 (Quoting Jesus Christ) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then tall the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Christ himself said He will return immediately AFTER tribulation. (verse 29) How can you deny Christ's own teaching in favor of another teacher? Was Jesus unclear? The loving Christian act is to point to Christ. The concern is many will lose faith when times get tough (tribulation) thinking they were supposed to get a free pass; perhaps they were 'left behind', not being the elect. Thus such unbiblical teaching is dangerous. We must not contradict Christ. Ask yourself why you believe something different to what Jesus said. The outcome of enduring persecution/tribulation sounds too unpleasant to believe it?
Yes it was. In the book 'The Hope of Christ's Second Coming' by Samuel P. Tregelles, LL.D written *in 1864.* On page 45 he states, "But when the theory of a secret coming of Christ was first brought forward (about the year 1832), it was adopted with eagerness: it suited certain preconceived opinions, and it was accepted by some as that which harmonized contradictory thoughts. There should, however, have been a previous point determined, whether such contradictory thought, or any of them, rested on the sure warrant of God's written Word." He also states in the notes, "I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an "utterance" in Mr. Irving's Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, ...."
Joey Nelms, Tregelles was ignorant of the fact that the rapture rescue was rediscovered during the Protestant Reformation when Englishmen rebelled against authorities by translating God's word into English, distributing Bibles widely, and then people read the Bible and thought for themselves. That's when the rapture rescue was rediscovered not in the early 1800s, and the reason why it been lost was the Roman Catholic church had been enforcing Augustine's Amillennial doctrine for well over a thousand years. For hundreds of objective archival sources, see William Watson's “Dispensationalism Before Darby”.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Like I said in the previous post. There are certain events that *must* take place *before* God's wrath begins. So, anything that happens before that can't be part of God's wrath. *Cohesive Chain of the Celestial Disturbances That Signal the Coming Day of the Lord’s Wrath* *Joel **2:30**-31* “I will produce portents both in the sky and on the earth- blood, fire, and columns of smoke. _The sunlight will be turned to darkness and the moon to the color of blood,_ *before* the day of the LORD comes- that great and terrible day!” *Isa 13:6-13* “Wail, for the LORD’s day of judgment is near; it comes with all the destructive power of the sovereign judge. For this reason all hands hang limp, every human heart loses its courage. They panic- cramps and pain seize hold of them like those of a woman who is straining to give birth. They look at one another in astonishment; their faces are flushed red. Look, the LORD’s day of judgment is coming; it is a day of cruelty and savage, raging anger, destroying the earth and annihilating its sinners. *Indeed the stars in the sky and their constellations no longer give out their light; the sun is darkened as soon as it rises, and the moon does not shine.* I will punish the world for its evil, and wicked people for their sin. I will put an end to the pride of the insolent, I will bring down the arrogance of tyrants. I will make human beings more scarce than pure gold, and people more scarce than gold from Ophir. So I will shake the heavens, and the earth will shake loose from its foundation, because of the fury of the LORD who commands armies, in the day he vents his raging anger” *(cf. Isa **2:10**-21; 24:1-23)* . *Luke 21:25-28* *“And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars,* and on the earth nations will be in distress, anxious over the roaring of the sea and the surging waves. People will be fainting from fear and from the expectation of what is coming on the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man arriving in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” *Matt **24:29**-31* “ *Immediately after* the suffering of those days, *the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,* and the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” *Mark 13:24-27* “But in those days, *after* that suffering, *the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will be falling from heaven,* and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arriving in the clouds with great power and glory. Then he will send angels and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.” *Rev 6:12-17* “Then I looked *when the Lamb opened the sixth seal,* and a huge earthquake took place; *the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the full moon became blood red; and the stars in the sky fell* to the earth like a fig tree dropping its unripe figs when shaken by a fierce wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the very important people, the generals, the rich, the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” Then in *Rev 7:9-14* we find: *After this* I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, *These are they which came out of great tribulation,* and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Now, I can't leave Brother Paul out of this. *1 Corinthians 15:51-53* *51* Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, *52* In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, *and we shall be changed.* *53* For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. This is not an imminence passage. We'll just change quickly. *1 Thessalonians 4:15-18* *15* For this we say unto you *by the word of the Lord,* that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. *16* For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: *17* Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. *18* Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Verse 15 says it's a word from the Lord. No wonder it sounds like Matthew 24! *2 Thessalonians 2:1-3* *1* Now we beseech you, brethren, by the *coming* of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our *gathering together* unto him, *2* That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. *3* Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day *shall not come, except* there come a falling away *first, and* that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; If you have an example from the Koine Greek period of the word _apostasia_ that shows a physical departure PLEASE let me know.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 *Scripture is the first and final arbiter for any Rapture position.* However, wisdom would demand that the position of the early church fathers should carry weight in our final decision. The overwhelming majority of early church fathers before Augustine were premillennial “imminent intertribulationists.” That is, they believed that Christ would return and Rapture the church during the persecution by Antichrist of God’s elect. Christ would then punish the wicked and setup a kingdom on earth for one thousand years. A position now echoed in the prewrath position. A position supported by the overwhelming majority of the earliest church fathers. *Didache Chapter 16 "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the twelve apostles"* *16:1* Watch concerning your life; let not your lamps be quenched or your loins be loosed, but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour at which our Lord cometh. *16:2* But be ye gathered together frequently, seeking what is suitable for your souls; for the whole time of your faith shall profit you not, unless ye be found perfect in the last time. *16:3* For in the last days false prophets and seducers shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; *16:4* and because iniquity aboundeth they shall hate each other, and persecute each other, and deliver each other up; and then shall the Deceiver of the world appear as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands; and he shall do unlawful things, such as have never happened since the beginning of the world. *16:5* Then shall the creation of man come to the fiery trial of proof, and many shall be offended and shall perish; but they who remain in their faith shall be saved by the rock of offence itself. *16:6* And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first the sign of the appearance in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead *16:7* -- not of all, but as it has been said, The Lord shall come and all his saints with him; *16:8* then shall the world behold the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven. *The Shepherd of Hermas (c.95-c.150)* [Blessed are] you who *endure the great tribulation* that is coming on, and [blessed are] they who shall not deny their own life. _Vision 2:2_ Those, therefore, who continue steadfast, and are put through the fire, will be purified by means of it.... But the white part is the age that is to come, in which the elect of God will dwell, since those elected by God to eternal life will be spotless and pure.... *This then is the type of the great tribulation that is to come.* _Vision 4:3_ *Justin Martyr (c.110-c.165)* He (Jesus Christ) shall come from heaven with glory, *when* the man of apostasy [the Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth *against us the Christians.* _Dialogue with Trypho, CX_ *Irenaeus (c.120-c.202)* And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the *Church to flight.* _Against Heresies, V, 26, 1_ And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. *For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.* _Against Heresies, V,29,1_ It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [the Antichrist], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved.... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes *we may avoid him, being aware who he is.* _Against Heresies, V,30,3,4_ For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, *which takes place after the coming of Antichrist....* [A]nd [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have *suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one.* _Against Heresies, V,35,1_ *Tertullian (c.145-c.220)* Heresies, at the present time, will no less rend the church by their perversion of doctrine, than will *Antichrist persecute her at that day by the cruelty of his attacks,* except that persecution make seven martyrs, (but) heresy only apostates. _The Prescription Against Heretics, IV *Hippolytus (c.185-c.235)* When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, *then* may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven. _On Daniel, II, 7_ In order that when those things [Antichrist's mark of the beast] come to pass, *we may be prepared for them, and not deceived.* For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifested. _Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 50_ Now, concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to *fall upon the Church from the adversary....* That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and *persecute the Church.* _Teatise on Christ and Antichrist, 60, 61, cf. 60-67_ *Cyprian (c.200-c.258)* For you ought to know and to believe, and hold it for certain, that the day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of Antichrist to draw near, so that we must *all stand prepared for the battle;* nor consider anything but the glory of life eternal, and the crown of the confession of the Lord; and not regard those things which are coming as being such as were those which have passed away. A severer and a fiercer fight is now threatening, for which the soldiers of Christ ought to prepare themselves with uncorrupted faith and robust courage, considering that they drink the cup of Christ's blood daily, *for the reason that they themselves also may be able to shed their blood for Christ.* _Epistle 55, 7_ Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecution, or the *coming of the threatening Antichrist,* as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. *Antichrist is coming,* but above him comes Christ also. The enemy goeth about and rageth, but immediately the *Lord follows to avenge our sufferings and our wounds.* The adversary is enraged and threatens, but there is One who can deliver us *from his hands.* _Epistle 55, 7_
Oops, David, maybe you shouldn't cite John MacArthur any more. Julie Roys and others have been uncovering a lot of dirt on him (and on his hit man Phil Johnson). Financial misdeeds, abusive behavior, and big, fat lies. He may be the next Ravi.
Addressed in a thuggish and very deceitful way, yes. If you look at what both sides are saying, you'd see that the many accusations are credible and deserve investigation. But Johnson just keeps changing his story and throwing verbal punches. Unfortunately, Johnson has the much bigger audience. Please look at what Julie Roys and other investigators are saying.
Have you seen Roy's (and others') reporting on MacArthur's many errors regarding his oft-repeated supposed memories of hanging out with friends of Dr. MLK?
@@FRN2013 I really only saw some video come up in my "Recommend" list off to the right and I took it. I only listened for a very limited time, as I don't follow Mac & his ministry whatsoever. I'm not a Calvinist ;) Cheers.
It’s only the second coming in reference to physically walking on the earth when Jesus feet land on the Mount of Olives. We can’t deny Revelation 1:7 as all eyes will see him. The vanishing rapture is not really self-explanatory other than it’s a mystery.
agree with your pre-trib but not your spiritual warfare---supporting deliverance ministries is vital to being part of the Bride and making the rapture. Many Calvary Chapelites may find themselves left behind as a result especially the pastors
The Bible declares that all followers of Jesus will be included in the Rapture...those who have been born again. There are many expressions of faith within the Body of Christ, and many ministries. The Bible doesn't teach us that supporting the correct ministries will get us included in the Rapture, but faith in Jesus Christ. God bless you!
Lol You've done what most 1 verse theologians do. Rip a "proof text" out if context then denounce anyone (ad hominem) that disagrees with you. I think the bible is all about you. In that passage Jesus was praying for the Apostles. You might learn to read the printed ink on the page
Plain reading of the bible leads to a post trib, pre-wrath etc... never a pretrib rapture. If Certain doctrines have to be read into the bible then they are not biblical. There is just 1 second coming which includes a rapture not a 3rd coming called a 2nd coming in the bible.
The challenging thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! :-). Until then we all should study and come up with our own beliefs and convictions, and...give grace to those who disagree. The important thing is this: we are all looking for Jesus and believe that He is coming. Blessings as you serve Him!
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord Sorry that my comment was snarky but I was just trying to be clear and i meant it with the same meekness u had in the video. I do like your commentaries. I believe they are solid and I've used them before. I wasn't searching for your views on pretrib rapture but they were on my feed and I was surprised that you subscribe to a pre trib rapture. Godbless you.
If there's no rapture then does that meen a certain generation of Christians will go through the tribulation and also the anti christ?? or is that made up by man as well ?
Ashley, If there is no Rapture, then yes, it would seem that a generation of Christians would enter into there time that the Bible calls the Great Tribulation. The idea of the Rapture has a lot of support in the Bible, and the Great Tribulation and the Antichrist are spoken of clearly in the Bible. Thanks for writing in.
It doesn’t matter what pastors, scholars, theologians, and other biblical intellectuals say about any biblical topics such as the coming of Jesus. What matters is what the bible itself says. And if the prophets and the apostles were men of God used by the Holy Spirit to lead people to the truth and through the truth, then we can say that God NEVER said that Jesus is coming before the Great Tribulation, which means that the church will NOT be “raptured” before the Great Tribulation. And even people try to come to any excuse to corroborate the idea of a pre-trib rapture, the matter of fact is that the bible does NOT corroborate the “possibility” of God’s church being taken away from Earth before the Great Tribulation. Satan is a liar. And people who believe that God said something He NEVER said, then they believe in a lie. Go read the bible for yourself asking the Spirit of Jesus to guide you!
MO, many good Christians disagree on prophecy, and that is allowable. What isn't allowable is that we don't show grace and love to one another. Prophecy hasn't happened yet, so we study the Bible and do our best to try to make sense of prophecy, and we allow for disagreement within the Body of Christ. Blessings as you study God's word and love His Bride!
NO! See John 14:3; Titus chapter 2:verses 11-15; Revelation 3:10 It is "IMMINENT"! "Maranatha" ("He comes") was the greeting to one another in the just formed church. They looked for Jesus to come in their time! WE TOO! Only God knows the time the last Christian is saved!
September 11, 2001 happens right after the release of the Left Behind movie on Ground Hog Day. Something is not right with this photo. The Ground Hog is about seeing his shadow. And September 11, 2001 caused people to fear their own shadow and now with Covid, people wouldn’t go out of the house afraid of their own shadow.
How about Paul letter to 2 thessalonica 2: 1-3 that man of lawlessness shall be revealed first then gathering unto the Lord will take place. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
First off, I'd like to say, Lord bless you and keep you for preaching the word of truth and salvation through Jesus Christ by way of the holy spirit our helper, guide, and our ultimate testament of the truth. I myself am convinced that we will be raptured mid tribulation. When the bible refers to the church it is not a physical temple made with human hands but, the holy spirit that dwells within you the temple of God. Acts 17:24, The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; Lets first read in John 15:26: ”When the Counselor comes, the one I will send to you from the Father - the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father - he will testify about me. With this in mind and discussing the end times and agree with some that the woman who flees to the wildnerness with the man child spoken of in Revelation- who wears the 12 stars about her head-represents the 12 tribe's of Israel (Nation) and the man child who she carries, could be referring to the holy spirit. As we know from scripture that the Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is believed to be the third person of the Trinity, a Triune God manifested as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, each entity itself being God. So, now brothers and sisters let us understand and not refute this truth as well when it comes to the role of the holy spirit; John the Baptist, was sent to earth to bear witness of this truth (Jesus Christ-incarnate). I believe he was used as a depiction and merely was a living example and representation of the role, position and the power that the Holy Spirit would ultimately play within our lives. This is why Jesus said in Mark 3:29, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and His power [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin [a sin which is unforgivable in this present age as well as in the age to come]”- Jesus always spoke to people in parables so we would further understand through metaphors, depictions, and mental illustrations: That we would grasp, understand, accept, know, comprehend, and acknowledge the truth, power, and gift of the Holy Spirit: 15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live in you also will live.20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. So let's read this verse in John 1: 7, as it talks about John the Baptist and also refers metaphorically to the function of the Holy Spirit. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear truth of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. John 1:23 John replied, in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’” Not lets return to woman spoken of in prophecy as it relates to her fleeing from the dragon (the devil) and flees into the wilderness: Revelation 12:6, Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that she would be nourished there for a thousand two hundred and sixty days (forty-two months; three and one-half years). This 1260 days refers to the future time called the Great tribulation which is seperate from the first 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period that equates to 1260 days which; is 42 months of 30 days each which is the same as 3 and a 1/2 years halfway through the tribulation. The Anti-Christ will set up an image of himself in the temple that will be Built-in Jerusalem this is the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, when the beast does this he breaks the peace pact (agreement) he had originally made with Israel and the surrounding nations. The secret of lawlessness is already working, only it cannot be revealed until he who now withholds disappears from the midst.” I believe this “disappearing from the midst into the wilderness” will happen at the time the church leaves the earth at the rapture (mid tribulation). The Holy Spirit will still be present in the earth, of course, but He will be taken out of the way in the sense that his unique sin-restraining power of ministry-through God’s people-will be removed. Lord Bless you and may the Lord Jesus Christ richly dwell in your hearts 💕 🙏
I have loved you for years my dear brother in Christ. A shout, and trumpeting, "we who are alive and remain". This will be a glorious and loud event with shouting and trumpeting the arrival of Jesus Christ(Yeshua), when the ones who managed to remain alive to the end of the 7 years of the Great-Tribulation, are only then caught-up to be with our Lord forever. Consider all the suffering through the ages, used as examples of suffering for God's glory. Even Jesus, the Son of God, with His faithful soon to follow, all suffered mightily, to what end? We all know, the rewards for suffering into martyrdom are great. Jesus, though wishing to be delivered, chose death by torture to satisfy His Father's Will. What is this "rapture" but a scheme to be hidden form suffering, satisfying not God's Will, but rather Satan's attempt to rob the Saints of their crowns. "The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne" What crowns will the "raptured' have to cast before the throne? Yeshua Messiah didn't have to suffer to His end, but He did, knowing in His heart, it would save us from our sins. rapture(n.) c.1600, "act of carrying off" as prey or plunder, from rapt + -ure, or else from French rapture, from Medieval Latin raptura "seizure, rape, kidnapping," from Latin raptus "a carrying off, abduction, snatching away; rape" (see rapt). The earliest attested use in English is with women as objects and in 17c. it sometimes meant rape (v.), which word is a cognate of this one. From Etymonline(Etymology Dictionary)
rapture(n.) c.1600, "act of carrying off" as prey or plunder, from rapt + -ure, or else from French rapture, from Medieval Latin raptura "seizure, rape, kidnapping," from Latin raptus "a carrying off, abduction, snatching away; rape" (see rapt). The earliest attested use in English is with women as objects and in 17c. it sometimes meant rape (v.), which word is a cognate of this one.
Pre, post, mid - all assume the validity of the future 7 tribulation and they call it Jacobs trouble. They take Jacobs trouble from Jer 30 … 7 years from Dan 9 and … you get 7 year tribulation. This is wrong on many levels. No wonder so many Christians are week in doctrine - because they drink this sour soup of verses mixed together and taken out of context. The Lord is coming and he will reprove those who teach and hold wrong doctrines! I wish teachers and preachers would pause and think about what they teach.
Dear Alex, The difficult thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! The best that we can do is to study and then connect different prophetic passages and come to an honest conclusion. I believe that we can still have fellowship with believers that may have a different eschatology than we do, and we need to have grace toward one another in that regard. Prophecy is a bit like a mosaic. We keep filling it in with different passages and try to understand what we are being told. God bless you as you continue to study God's word!
Do me a favor and do a study on the 3 major harvests in Israel. There are lots of minor crops but, there are 3 major harvest crops. They are barley, wheat, and grapes. You will study several verses that show these crops. Barley and wheat are both planted at the same time but Barley matures faster...apply that spiritually. 🙂 There are 3 companies departing out of here. Barley is his bride. She is the first fruits of the new creation. She leaves at pre trib. The Lord shows us this in type and shadow in Genesis. WHILE ADAM SLEPT (the church as a whole is in a deep sleep because of the apostasy) GOD FORMED A BRIDE OUT OF HIS RIB. This is a small company of believers that will make up a remnant bride.....a rib portion. She is caught up in Rev 4 when he tells John, "Come up here!" He is caught up directly into the throne room. The bulk of the church will be left and be gathered up shortly after. They loaded onto a new ship in Acts 27.....Castor and Pollock. They are headed to Phoenecia in Rome!!! Do you know what Phoenecia means? LAND OF THE PALMS🌴 Which is very interesting because that is what the bulk of the church is found holding in their hands when they are gathered up to heaven in Rev 7 as the great multitude AKA...The Innumerable Company. The Lord wiped tears from their eyes, they realized what they missed. The final company is the 144, 000 Jews that is caught up to the 3rd heaves, right at mid trib. This is the grape company harvest. The door is shut in heaven because the celestial mystical body is now complete!!! Think of this: * There are 3 stories in Noah's ark. * There is a Barley, wheat, and grapes company * some sowed 100, some 60, some 30 * There is Sun glory saints, moon glory saints, and star glory saints * Peter was given the vision on the rooftop of a fitted sheet with all manner of beasts inside from the four corners of the earth from every nation and tongue....He saw it come down THRICE...3 TIMES!!! * You can see these 3 ranks in Acts 27 the swimmers swam to shore, some floated in on boards, and others came in still holding onto pieces of the ship...3 groups of people
Who cares how old it is? Back in Paul's day there were Judaizers and Gnostics. Most reputable scholars and early believers even the reformers believed in what we'd call Amilleninalism. It took me 20 years for God to open my eyes to it. Premillenialism never made sense and no matter how I tried I could not make it fit in with the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. I read Revelation 19 over and over amd read chapter 20 until I realized they cannot be in order. Its impossible. So then I turned to a symbolic, re-telling that is rev 20. If you cant read Revelation correct, you'll never understand it. Its not in order. And you'll hold to dispensational pre- millenialism, because that's what most of us have been taught our whole lives. They invented this 7 years, Jews being the center of everything again. But that's not what Scripture teaches.
Seems to be quite common for post trib and amills to make derogatory remarks to pre tribbers. A sort of patronising, insulting attitude to the extent I wonder if they really are Christians.
Its because we see the doctrine as demonic. It also has a selfish orientatation about it. Western, privileged Pre tribbers seem to expect they are entitled to a VIP ticket out of here when countless Christians as we speak suffer for the faith. They don't show the proper regard to Christians who have died before them or Christians who die now, look at north korea, afghanistan, somalia etc. Hence we see the doctrine as exactly what it is... selfish, spoilt, ignorant, entitled and cowardly. It is a doctrine that is inconsistent with the righteousness of Christ. Jesus specifically said "In this world you will have trouble but take heart, I have overcome the world" (John 14:33) and "You must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22) You must get out of the false view that the 7 year tribulation is all about the wrath of God. It is not... His wrath is right at the end when he is revealed in flaming fire. The wrath of man, Antichrist and the devil is the main hallmark of the trib. It is one short time period that Satan gets to run rampant.
@@aquila813apologetics3 Interesting you know the hearts of ppl you've never met. Your arguments are ad hominem which is a fallacy. Simply attacking the character of someone is not a biblical argument. Please study to show YOURSELF approved
@@shredhed572 Sorry my brother. I mean no offence to the brothers of the faith... this doctrine however is an utter disgrace and is so fictional and deceptive.
Post Trib pre wrath I found that not long after I was saved that Rev ch 6 proves pretribe rapture is false teahing and people don't want to here it which is bad. 1st thess 1:10 and 5:9 and Romans 5:9 say we are not appointed the wrath but the wrath doesn't happen until after the tribulations have come. Rev ch 6 is the tribulation and it has begun and the saints are there in Rev 6:9-11,still there. But in Rev 6:16-17 we see the Wrath has come. What worries me is that a lot of believers will believe that there belief was in vain and lose faith. We will suffer the Tribulation but not wrath. I believe Rev 6:12-17 descibes a nuclear war,ever watch videos of nuclear bombs rolling the clouds like a scroll. Thats the only way John could describe what he saw. You see in Rev ch 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, [a]“Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [b]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
I’m Ethiopian Messianic Ghabarayic Yashar’elite I read, write, speak, Ghabaray, Aramaic, and Koine Greek and by for I laugh at this entire video. I’m not stating my nationality to get kudos, I’m stating my nationality to let you all know I have a different element than you all that was raised with the western secular teachings. Yes the catching up in the air is in the Canon, unfortunately No where in any of the ancient languages where it was taught in the manner of the western world. The catching up is in the Bible but the way the 4 scriptures are written and spread apart most westerners believe we will not go through nor see the events happen. That’s so far further from the truth. Mind you there are only 4 total scriptural areas that specifically speaks about the catching up so there’s not much studying on that part. The other element the west lacks is the Ghabaray/Aramaic terminology and how it correlates with Koine Greek, the different saying, the customs of the ancient world, slang, traditions, and humor in the ancient languages of the Canon. Honestly when I was little I remember a pastor said the Ghabaray was a dead language. I asked my dad what the pastor meant as a dead language and he told me "it’s when a language is so old it evolves to a more modern day language. So I asked my dad is our language dead and he told me "No"! They just don’t understand what’s going on. He told he they will soon find out. Now at 44 years old and have an education and still speaking Ghabaray the ancient tongues it saddens me that there is a secret the western world doesn’t know but sooner or later and hopefully not later there’s going to be a huge smack in the face of every person on the face of the earth and the answers were right in front of them outside of the 66 books of the Bible, but backing up the 66 books of the Bible . The problem is modern day pastors think they know the ends and outs of the ancient manuscripts, I assure they don’t. 68% of Alkebuulan tribes embedded the ancient Ghabaray tongues in another language but around our own kind we speak Ghabaray. This is one thing that’s not told until the time is right, and now the time is right. Sooner or later you all will get the chance to hear the Paleo Ghabaray tongues, the same tongues that was spoken before the the Babylonian captivity. They called my language PRIMITIVE…..WOW! That’s quite insulting!
Where in the Book of Revelation does the Rapture of the Alive in Christ and Resurrection of the Dead in Christ? Answer: Rev. 16:15 NKJV - The Sixth Bowls Judgment and The Sixth Angel “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” Rev. 9:21 NKJV - The Bride introduced to John by one of the Angels of the Seven Bowls Judgment Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” Logical Conclusion: THE SIXTH ANGEL IS THE ONE WHO WITNESSED THE RAPTURE AND RESURRECTION
There is no PRE-trib rapture. Although there are 2 raptures at Jesus coming. That is to say that at the second coming of Jesus, the dead in Christ will rise first to meet Jesus in the air, and 2nd the living will be gathered to meet christ in the air also. Notice Jesus tells us in the book of Mark when he is coming for the elect and it's after the tribulation, though not before the sun and moon are darkened Tribulation saints are those whom die in Jesus name during the time of the tribulation. Though the tribulation is not to be mistaken for the Wrath of God that will be poured out after the rapture, that is appointed for the unbelievers and those who took the Mark of the beast. - Mark 13:23-27 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. Jesus and most all the apostles were killed as exapmles as how we should also be obedient unto death -- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - Do not take the VAX let no man decieve you Your not born agian or follow Jesus if your living in sin. Be ready The Lord is coming soon do not take the Mark of the beast. Soon the second phase will roll out and they will start to crack down on vaccine card counterfeiting by implementing new vaccine placed on hand or forhead with Luciferase invisible tattoo patch. Preventing anyone without the Vax entry to stores to buy or sell. - Research Nano Patch / Luciferase invisible mark/ microneedle Array/ Mark of the Beast vaccine thats is placed on the hand or forhead for vaccine passport registered via your smart phone. Calvinist is not biblical it's heresy, Calvinist AKA reformed theology teach Jesus did not die for everyone but only for those whom God called. Beware of these false teachers like Allen parr/Good hope/ Paul washer,John Macarthur /James white/Jeff durbin/Voddie Baucham/John piper/calvinist/ easy believeism/ once saved always saved/eternal security/ Hyper Grace. all of them practicing theies Calvinist teachings.
Scofield comments 1 Thes 4 is the second coming. 1 Cor 15:52 comments states some think it is pre-trib and some think post-trib. Scofield did not take a position. 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with a resurrection. There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6). Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We don't float up into the sky and disappear. Life is normal (eating, drinking, etc.), then there is a flash of light and dead bodies. Why would the dead in Christ need a new body before the tribulation? Are they naked in heaven (2 Cor 5)? The resurrection is for earth, not heaven. Maranatha!
Wrong. There are two resurrection else the scriptures would not mention "FIRST Resurrection" in Rev 20: 5. The other resurrection is after the 1000 years. The OT saints did not know there were 2 resurrections. The Bible clearly says Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: *on such the second death hath no power*, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This means there is no condemnation in the first resurrection but there is another resurrection where you have condemnation. Also, this resurrection doesn't really happen AFTER Jesus comes in Rev 19. If so, what about those who rose from the dead in Mar 27: 52-53? What about the two witnesses BEFORE the 7th trumpet even sounded?
The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the NIGHT (tribulation) but Jesus comes a thief ONLY. No one know when He will come. If He is coming when everyone is watching then He is not coming as a thief then. He will come with a flash of lightning and the dead are risen (resurrected) from the grave and those alive are caught up (raptured). Why did Jesus need resurrection? Why did He have to come back for His dead body?
@@Just_in_Rich I believe there is a spirit world and a material world. God created both worlds and both are good. The spirit world does not contain flesh (1 Corinthians 15:50). When Jesus presented himself to the disciples he a had a body of flesh and bones. I believe when he went back to heaven the material body changed to spirit. We can't see heaven with a telescope, or any other kind of man-made device. >> Why did Jesus need resurrection? Why did He have to come back for His dead body? He came to show us he has power over death.
@@Just_in_Rich I think "FIRST" is a bad translation. A better translation would be "the most important resurrection." You won;t find the words "second resurrection" in Rev 20 in any English translation. Why would the wicked get an immortal, glorified body at the end of the millennium? The two witnesses and the many at Christ's resurrection is not the entire church. For the sake of the wicked, I hope we do come out of the graves and rise and disappear into the sky at the pre-trib rapture because that is what is predominately taught. However, I believe we will leave our flesh on earth (Luke 17:37, Matthew 24:28). It is the same process before the pre-trib rapture. Our body dies and our spirit is taken to heaven. At the second coming, we get a new earthly body for the millennium.
@@onetakendotnet Not only to show that He had power over death but the earthly body had transformed to the heavenly body or the glorious body which cannot be explained. Not only Jesus the OT saints also were raised from the grave. Remember the graves were opened and people saw them. But that they did not go back to sleep in the grave but I believe they were taken up with Jesus.
Very good points....but even if the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine only recently began, it would not be less Biblical. Daniel 12:4 implies that not only worldly knowledge, but Biblical knowledge and understanding will increase near the end of this age...so the often perceived youth of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine should not be relevant. Jesus at some point meets His elect in the air...and He at a completely separate point touches His feet on the ground at the Mount of Olives. These are two separate events of Jesus' second coming. Why is it so hard for folks to allow for the possibility that Jesus catches away His grain harvest just prior to a tribulation period, through which His grape harvest is produced? Given the social condition of the world, we may not have to quarrel much longer about the timing of the rapture. It appears the stage is being set for the return of Jesus. For those who do not yet know and trust in Him, now would be a good time to get acquainted.
Every post tribber pre wrather seventh day Adventist follow replacement theology and works salvation. They replace Gods chosen people israel with the church. They also dont truly believe that the blood jesus shed on the cross was enought to atone for their sin if they did why do they put the body of christ and christ himself through his own judgments?
The Thessalonians were facing such heavy persecution that they started to believe judgement day - the day of the Lord had arrived. What scared and puzzled them was that Paul had previously encouraged them that Christ would soon snatch them out of this world PRIOR to that day. He then had to write to them to correct this so they would remain encouraged. Therefore, if Paul had any doubt that the rapture could occur after the start of the tribulation, his epistle becomes irrelevant and illogical. The purpose of the 70th week is to bring judgment to an unrepentant world and bring Israel to salvation. Our judgement has already been laid upon Christ at the cross. To even imply that we still need to go through some judgment, either partially or totally, is blasphemy to the perfect redemption plan of God at calvary
so what you are saying is that the word "destruction" and "tribulation" are synonymous? Listen buddy, the lord is coming back ONE time not twice as left behind has thought you. There will be no second Chance for people to get it right, this is false doctrine, not biblical at all. The early church /apostles never believed this. There will be a tribulation - persecution of the church, which EVERYONE will go through, then the lord will come back to rapture his church and destroy the world. You clearly have not read Matthew 24, go ahead and read the whole thing. Matthew 24:3 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell Us, When shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the END OF THE WORLD? Tell me then, why would Jesus tell the disciples about the signs of his coming AND the end of the world if his people was not going to be here? Matthew 24 debunks everything you are saying There is no left behind. This is a large misinterpretation
“2 aspects of the 2nd coming of Jesus” is an excuse not to say Second and Third coming; one before the Great tribulation and the other one after it, which is a BIG lie. The bible does not teach that at all.
MO, there are many good and true followers of Jesus that disagree on aspects on prophecy. We need to "study to show ourselves approved", but the challenging aspect of prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet. Therefore, we study and try to make a determination of what the Bible is saying, and we need to give grace to brothers and sisters that have a different point of view. Thanks for joining us. Blessings.
That's nothing but a straw man, and that being interpreted means, you have no argument. The Rapture takes place in the air, whereas at the Second Coming, Christ returns all the way to Earth for the millennial reign. I find it interesting also that you provided no scripture nor did you posit your position. You simply weighed in against the pre-tribulation rapture. That qualifies you as a bona fide troll, just saying.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord It is not about whether or not the prophecies have been fulfilled in real life. It is about whether or not the teachings about God's promises and revelations are in harmony with the very words of God Himself according to the scriptures. And believing and teaching that God promised that the church will be caught up to meet with Jesus in the air before the Great Tribulation and that the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God is a very big lie that looks like a small lie which in reality will be one of the causes of the great christian falling away and one of the reasons why many people will not inherit the kingdom along with Jesus and, worse, one of the reasons why many people will go to the lake of fire.
@@Kman., have you tried reading the bible for yourself? Have you tried asking God for guidance while reading it? Have you tried questioning your own thoughts while reading the scriptures? Being wrong is not the problem. The problem is being wrong while believing to be right and pass the wrong interpretations and understandings along to others. Depending on the subject, one might not lose salvation but they can lose rewards when the judgement day for the believers comes. Yes, all believers will be judged by Jesus and the apostles and if your work foundation is not laid on Jesus, then, your work will burn like a hay and straw in the fire. And the pre-trib rapture will burn even before getting close to the fire. My concern is whether or not the ones teaching or learning this doctrine of lies will burn with it also. Just saying. By the way, when you wrote about "providing scriptures", do you mean you really care about what the bible says or was that just an attempt to shut down the point I made???? Because I could just say "the whole bible from Genesis to Apocalypse is your reference against the pre-trib". For example, you can learn about God's timeline to fulfill His promises through the days of creation and the 7 feasts of God which was two of many scriptures information that Paul and all the apostles used to talk about the kingdom.
@@MO-cr8tt Well I would disagree. People who claim to be correct about prophecy can't prove it, because it hasn't happened. Also, the idea of the Rapture didn't get invented apart from Biblical consideration. Many people have studied the Bible, scholars and great teachers, and some have determined that there is a valid belief in the Rapture of the church. So, we shall agree to disagree, and disagreement is OK between Believers. Blessings in Jesus.
The question was, "Is the pre tribulation rapture something that was invented just 200 years ago?" To this question, instead of being able to directly answer the question - yes, or no, it's only 200 years old, the fact that he has to beat around the bush and go roundabout all over the place not being able to just give a direct answer to the simple question lets me know this pastor is someone that believes in the pretribulation rapture and that it is only 200 years old. lol. I got his answer in the first 5 minutes.
You wrote: "Is the pre tribulation rapture something that was invented just 200 years ago?" What, exactly, do you mean by your term, "invented"? Would you use your term, "invented," regarding doctrines which you would say are taught in the Bible? Would you say, for instance, that Paul "invented" doctrines which you would say Paul taught?
Instead of saying "invented", perhaps we might say "understood, explained", etc. The doctrines of God are certainly not invented by men, but they are observed, explained and applied by men. Some might say that the Rapture is a newer understanding or explanation, while others say that the teaching of the Rapture was always revealed by God, but more recently understood or emphasized/embraced.
I have been blessed by your ministry, David, but respectfully disagree here. Here is some scripture to give the other side of the argument. God bless! 9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands [...] 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Revelation 7:9, 13-14 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. - Matthew 24:19-22 (Also, Mark 13:19-20) 29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. - Matthew 24:29-31 (Also, Mark 13:24-26) Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 21 After they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.” - Acts 24:21-22 These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” - John 16:33
You've provided scripture with no explanation as to what you think they mean. You're suggesting that finding the *WORD* "tribulation" represents _THEE_ tribulation? The few verses you've quoted would represent trials, troubles, difficulties, hardships, etc but in no way is representative of the 7 year period that is focused on the Jewish people in the end times.
@@Kman. I wanted to leave interpretation out and let the verses speak for themselves. But the verse in Revelation 7:14 is quite clear. It says the ones who are in heaven came out of "the great tribulation". This is not general but specific. Also, when Jesus talks about the end times and the last tribulation in Matthew 24, He uses the same exact phrase to describe it: "great tribulation". Later in that chapter, you can see clearly that the return of the Son of Man in the clouds comes after the "tribulation of those days." And that's when he raptures His people. God bless.
@@Ironike You can't just quote some verses and leave them at that...you certainly believe the verses to say s/thing specific, right? A pastor doesn't just stand up behind a pulpit...read some verses, then sit down, right? No, he takes the time to share what HE believes the bible is saying. Yes, the Son of Man comes "AFTER THE TRIBULATION", annnnnnnnnnnnd?
@@Kman. Please read the verses carefully. Both in Revelation and Matthew you see that the saints go through the great tribulation. They are not raptured out of it. What I meant with Matthew 24, is that Jesus comes in the clouds and raptures His people after the tribulation of those days. Sorry forgot to add that in there. We may disagree, but let's always exhort with grace and humility. It may very well be that I am the person who is wrong here. Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. - 2 Timothy 4:2.
@@Ironike In the OT, believers were referred to as "saints", and we know that *Matthew 24* is not speaking of them, right? People during the tribulation that come to Christ will *BECOME* "saints", but the church age is in heaven during this time. *Rev 4:10* points to believers already in heaven, which is *BEFORE* the tribulation begins, yet in *Rev 7:14* _AFTER_ the tribulation has begun, John asks *WHO* this group is, and *THESE* are the ones identified as martyrs; “…These are they which came out of great tribulation…”. It's all about context & comparing scripture with scripture. What you see taking place in *Matt 24* is the fulfillment of prophecy. Recall what *Matt **23:37* says? “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have GATHERED thy children together, even as a hen *GATHERETH* her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Well in *Matt **24:31* you find this, “…they shall *GATHER* together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” The word "ELECT" is used for those He "gathers", the Jews. And notice where they're *GATHERED* from in that verse & compare that with these verses... *Ez **5:10* “…and the whole remnant of thee will I SCATTER into ALL THE WINDS” *Ez **17:21* “…and they that remain shall be SCATTERED toward ALL WINDS…” *Zech 2;6* “…for I have SPREAD you abroad AS THE FOUR WINDS of the heaven, saith the LORD.” *Isaiah 43:5,6* says, “Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the *EAST* and gather thee from the *WEST;* I will say to the *NORTH* give up; and to the *SOUTH,* Keep not back: bring my sons from *FAR,* and my daughters from the *ENDS OF THE EARTH”* Much more could be said, but the above I believe provides ample support, for the ones in *Matt 24* that are being "GATHERED", are the Jews. If not, where are the Jews in end time prophesy? Are we to think God is finished dealing with them? There is *MUCH* prophesy yet to be fulfilled during these end times, and the Jewish people play such an important role in all of this. Cheers.
Pastor Guzik you are such a blessing to me. I’m walking thru the Bible with you on enduring word. I’m at Job
This Q&A blessed me. Thank you for your time in helping us to not only understand the scriptures more but to direct us TO the scriptures. Sola scriptura. God bless you.
1. παρουσια coming of the Lord (Matt 24:3 1 Thess 4:15)
2. Christ comes on a cloud (Matt 24:30 1 Thess 4:17)
3. resurrection occurs (Matt 24:31 Thess 4:16)
4. Rapture ( Matt 24:41 1 Thess 4:17)
Same event total post trib
Thanks David. Looking forward to meeting the Lord in the air at any moment! Good reasoned approach. He is coming!
It's not going to happen "at any moment". There are a whole host of things the bible tells us that must happen first.
You do know that Jesus comes back after the tribulation. The pre tribulation rapture theory was made up 200 years ago. For the future generations to believe this lie. So that no one would be ready, for what is really coming. The end time events the bible speaks about, is gonna happen to us who are alive right now. Everything is happening. As you probably already know.
I'm just trying to have a mutual respect for you or your or anyone beliefs.
I tell everyone, look up When was the pre tribulation rapture theory made up. And it will let you know when it was made up almost 200 years ago.
I think we are almost 2 years into the tribulation. September 15th 2020 President Trump signed a peace treaty with Israel.
And shortly thereafter... all heck broke loose.
Now I have had several people ask how did I come to this conclusion ect.
It's what I have researched and read studied while everyone else is so busy in there lives. I have done outside the bible research as well.
John Nelson Darby was an is wrong.
To many people focus on expecting to just be raptured up. And that will not happen.
The antichrist will be hologramed in the sky, in a project blue beam. NASA and the government have had this planned out for God only knows 40 50 years now. Its perfected. That even will happen probably within 5 years or less.
You can mark my words or not. But I like to kinda guess or put a timeline because no one but the government and NASA actually knows when this event will take place.
It is soon...
And no one not even the son of God, Jesus, he will be back 7 years or is it 3 1/2 years after the antichrist is revealed.
No one knows when that will take place. But we will know it is.soon after the antichrist is revealed.
And he will fool hopefully not everyone, with the movie type of hologram that will be played all over the world when it happens.
It will in my opinion, be like watching Jesus come back. Where I'm sure a trumpet will sound and the dead will rise. The may be an alien invasion faked.
People will eventually be captured and we will have to take the mark of the beast, and if not, we will be tortured and killed. They can keep us for 10 days and then kill us.
We should be praying that when these events do unfold, that they have the strength to get through it without cracking up and taking the mark of the beast.
Then we know what happens if we get that.
Like these forced vaccinations.
Sound a little to familiar huh? Google everything I said. I didn't make this stuff up. I'm just sharing what I have learned. Is it is the bible?
I think it says don't be fooled by any of the false profits and antichrist.
You need to read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, it's not the only verses or chapter that says it, it's just the clearest.. imo
Amazing, thank you for sharing your wisdom and helping me learn and grow.
Hi David - I just found your channel and appreciate your direct, perceptive and straight forward perspective.
You also kind of have a Richard Dreyfuss thing going on, which I feel kind of makes you even more interesting 🤔😁
Have you watched the documentary movie
*_Before The Wrath?_*
I'm wondering if you're a Calvary Chapel pastor or ...?
This video deserves more views.
Every eye will see him. Where is this secret meeting in the clouds? Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
THAT'S THE 2ND COMING NOT THE CATCHING UP (rapture)
Where is the secret meeting in the clouds? In 1Thess 4:15-17
@@lenardpap7976 Great and CORRECT answer from the WORD of GOD!!! GOD bless you!
@@Nancy-nc4sw True! :)
I am 80 years old and have held all four views on the time of the rapture. I now believe that my professor Dr. Culver of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School was correct in his belief that the mid-trib view is the correct view.
Thank you! I have been wrestling with the question regarding rapture being a newer belief, thanks for addressing that.
You make some very good points. Thanks. Just curious if you (or any Bible teacher you know of?) has responded to Joel Richardson's offer to debate anyone on the pre-tribulation rapture? (JR rejects pre-tribulationism as not being based on Scripture)
Also, take a look at Edward Irving, prior to Darby. He brought back the teaching of the gathering together of the saints and also the revelation of the mystery of the one body of Christ.
I use your commentary on E-Sword a lot. Many thanks for writing it and giving away free.
Very excellent presentation!
Thank You 🙏
Thank you brother! I got a lot out of this and I have a few new thinking points I can make when speaking about this topic now. Thanks again!
Wonderful!
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord see this “The great rapture debate-pastor Joe Schimmel and Doug Stauffer
By GOOD FIGHT MINISTRIES
@@KeepitoriginalministryI just watched this debate recently and as someone who holds to a pre trib rapture standing, I was surprised by some interesting points on the post trib side of the discussion.
Namely that
1) Jesus calls us to a life where we will experience suffering. And that the pre trib rapture is to escape the suffering to come. He referenced the Israel being protected in the land of Goshen and Noah being within the ark. That they went thru that time yet possessed Gods protection.
2) that we are not "appointed to wrath" (1Thes) yet some are storing up wrath (the unsaved) for the Day of Wrath (Rom2:5).
Interesting, points here yet could heaven, his saints being called up to meet Him in the air, be the taking away 'to the land of Goshen' for protection and is also the ark by which we shall not experience this outpouring?
Also I wonder nothing was acknowledged either regarding the 'bowls of wrath' that shall be poured out.
I Thank God for Joe Shimmel, he's done some amazing videos pointing out Satan's obvious work yet Im not too sure I would entirely agree with his points or stance.
Would love to hear Pastor David's thoughts on this.
@@austinbodiford6360 Google “Mystery scripture” and read them. You will see when the rapture happens
@austinbodiford6360 - I can't suggest *_Strongly Enough_* for you to watch the documentary movie titled:
*_Before The Wrath_*
which is available on TUBi or other apps/TV sites
It does such a good job answering the questions we have as people who want to know and trust The *Truth!*
Please go watch it, it's*SO* well done!
Every eye will see Jesus. This meeting in the clouds is no SECRET vanishing. Jesus comes twice in the clouds is the only way.
Daniel was told he stand in his lot at the end.
Apostle Paul taught what Jesus said in Matthew 24th chapter, Paul also had to clarify with the saints in Thessalonian that the catching away of the saints has not happened until a falling away and the antichrist is revealed. The Day of the Lord is the coming of the Lord, no where is there Biblical scripture to fit in the Old or New. Testament about pre tribulation if we follow what Christ taught we'll read at the end of the great tribulation, but no one knows the day or hour of the rapture
Amen brother! That's why they are changing the meaning of _apostasia_ to a "physical departure" to get around that. Basically having Paul say the rapture can't happen until the rapture happens.
I absolutely love and respect your commentaries. As much as I want the pre-trib rapture to be the correct interpretation I just don't see it in Scripture but I definitely don't believe the details of eschatology should divide believers.
Thanks for writing in. Thanks for your honest words!
Maybe this can help shad a bit more light on the topic.
I hope that this helps.
enduringword.com/bible-commentary/1-thessalonians-4/
No Scripture in context actually does teach a pretrib rapture. Look at the context and see if you aren't bringing ideas to the text from someplace else. I promise you, you are.
Well let's see 2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 rev 3 10 luke 21 36 john 14 1 3 isaiah 26 19 21 1st Corinthians 15 50 55 is what happens in 1st thessalonians 4 16 18.
Now show me any scripture that says the church is protected through Daniels 70th week? And what scripture says the rapture occurs at the second coming.
Before you answer examine closely mathew 24 29 31 and 1st thessalonians 4 16 18 whats the difference between the two?
@@tonyeaton671 Jesus only spoke of only ONE resurrection of BOTH the good and the evil when He returns (John 5:28-29; so did Paul who said in 1 Cor 15:23-24, “But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; THEN all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back. AFTER THAT THE END WILL COME (no 7-year period in between), when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.” The meeting Paul speaks about in 1 Cor 15:50-55 occurs. AT THE END not pre or mid- trib.
Second, “The timing of the resurrection of the saints or rapture is best understood as occurring at the visible second coming of Christ instead of at a secret return some years prior is because Paul indicates it as such in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. The Greek word parousia, meaning “presence,” “arrival,” or “coming,” is used to refer to the second coming of Christ throughout the New Testament (Matt. 24:27 (where Jesus talked about his parousia being visible to all (one which would be as obvious as lightning flashing in the east and shining in the west); 1Cor. 15:23; Jas. 5:8; 1Jn. 2:28 ).”
Many pre-trib proponents rely heavily on 1 Thessalonians 4:15, the rapture passage, where Paul sates that those who are left alive “until the coming of the Lord” will be caught up together with those who have been raised from the dead to meet the Lord in the air. However, “the specific term he uses in verse 15 is parousia. Those who affirm a two-stage secret return of Christ to rapture the church prior to or during the tribulation see this parousia as a distinct first stage of his second return. The problem with this interpretation is that everywhere else parousia occurs in the Thessalonian correspondence it unambiguously refers to the visible return of Christ to the earth (1Thes. 2:19; 3:13; 5:23; 2Thes. 2:1, 8). In 1 Thessalonians 3:13, refers to “coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints,” which clearly indicates the second coming. In addition, parousia is used in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, when Paul declares that the Lord Jesus will defeat of the man of lawlessness by “the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” If both of these examples refer to his actual second coming to earth, there is absolutely nothing in the context to suggest that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 should be taken any differently as all the other instances of parousia in Thessalonians. As such, Paul clearly seems to conceive of the resurrection of the saints and the catching up of the believers to meet the Lord in the air occurring at the same time Christ is visibly coming back to the earth and not a secretive stealing away of the church several years before he actually returns at the end of the age.”
Finally, the Bible doesn’t equate tribulation with wrath or condemnation. On the contrary, Jesus promised his disciples and all those in Christ who would come after them trials and tribulations (John 16:33); James taught that God sends tribulations and trials to his people to refine them (James 1:2-4). If Christians are to be spared the Great Tribulation because God doesn’t want them to suffer, then please explain what we are to make of Christian martyrs throughout the church age, our brothers and sisters in Syria, Afghanistan, Northern Nigeria, etc. (who faced/are facing terrible persecution under ISIL, the Taliban, Bomi Haram, etc.)? Are they candidates for God’s wrath different from other believers? My point is that the church’s presence during the great tribulation does not mean that it will be subject to God’s wrath and the idea of a magical spiriting away of the saints during the Great Trib has little or no Scriptural backing.
@@Foodie.Mommie ok so your saying the rapture occurs at the second coming. If thats the case how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies?
Who ENTERS into the millennial kingdom and who does not?
Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this?
Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well?
@@tonyeaton671 i might as well also ask if all the wicked and unbelieving people and armies are slain and destroyed at the end of Rev19 when Jesus returns, why would Satan need to be bound - who is opposing Christ and his rule, where does the mighty army in Rev 19 come from? Your questions and mine are reasons why my eschatological leanings are amillennial - I do not believe in a LITERAL 1000 year millennium after Christ returns - and i don’t think the timeline or chronology in Revelation is linear. I believe the 1000 years is symbolic of the church age in which Satan’s rule has been bound and defeated (not completely) through the breaking forth of God’s kingdom and advancement of the gospel. I will admit that none of the eschatological views is water-tight or perfect, not even amillenialism - I just think that it makes the most sense in view of all that Jesus, the apostles (including Revelation) and the OT prophets said. But while I lean closer to the amillennial view than any other (including post trib premillennialism) I just cannot see a case or Scriptural backing for Christ return pre or mid trib to remove the church from the Great Tribulation or a secret return.
@@Foodie.Mommie ok then you have to answer that question as to how the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all believers recieve their glorified bodies at the second coming!
You say we're in the millennium right now. But scripture clearly says during the millennial kingdom there will be now wars people will turn their weapons into pruning sheers that tge age will increase isaiah 65 20 animals will be dosel isaiah 11 6 8 no more infant death that the government will be upon Jesus shoulders that jesus will reign on earth from king davids throne in Jerusalem isaiah 9 6 7 rev 20 4 6 rev 5 9 10
There will be a third temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem israel 2nd thessalonians 2 4 rev 11
There will be a 4th temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem israel its called the millennial temple or Ezekiels temple Ezekiel chapters 40 through 45
Has satan been cast into the bottomless pit yet ? No he is in the second heaven he is ruler of this world right now.
In order for the theology your following to be truth you have to be able to put people without glorified bodies into the millennial kingdom. How does that happen if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies?
Who enters into the millennial kingdom and who does not?.do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this?
Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well?
And why does rev 20 say 6 times a thousand years. And where in the bible does it give anyone permission to allorigize and spiritualize Gods word.
Was jesus first coming physical or spiritual? If you accept his first coming as physical why do you not accept his second coming as physical? Do you have a glorified body right now? These are questions you need to answer
Can you please give me your analogy on this? I am not mad.
Pastor David when I read scripture regarding tribulation the interpretation I get is that the 1 half is Satan's wrath against Israel and the church, where as the day of the Lord or Great tribulation in the last 3 1/2 yrs is God's wrath against unbelievers. So can you explain this to me because it seems to me the last Trumpet when we join Christ in the air is when Jesus returns to pour out His wrath which we will be delivered from but believers will be here for the wrath of Satan in beginning of tribulation.
Scripture says we are not appointed to his wrath romans 5 9 1st thessalonians 5 9 1st thessalonians 1 10.
Jesus is the only one worthy to break the seals to give the command for the trumpets to be blown and bowls to be poured out all 21 judgments are his wrath
The seven year tribulation period is daniels 70th week daniel 9 24 says 70 weeks are decreed for your people and holy city daniels people are israel jews the 12 tribes. The church is not israel we did not replace israel. That is replacement theology
You are mostly correct in your interpretation. The Pre-Trib rapture is a square peg in a round hole which has so many holes in it, it can't hold water. The bible clearly states the wrath of satan through anti-christ happens actually at the midpoint of the 7 years when anti-christ declares himself to be God. Then the saints of god (believers) will be delivered up for persecution....'to captivity or by sword' though some will escape both. Then before the trumpet and bowl judgements, the saints are raptured as the King returns and the wrath of the Lamb/the wrath of God begins. Hence a pre-'Gods' wrath rapture/second coming. One event. David is trying desperately to justify what is not biblical. Read for yourselves, saints and may the Holy Spirit reveal the truth to your hearts and minds.
Rox,
You do understand that Satan can and has tested man since the beginning job was tested by satan Peter was tested by satan so to say the first half of daniels 70th week is satans wrath is in error all 21 judgments are Gods wrath un earth dwellers rev 5 shows that jesus is the only one worthy to break the seals if he is breaking the seals they are his wrath
Dear Tony Eaton,
Revelation says Jesus opened the seal that contained prophecy on Eschathology. It didn't say Jesus gave the commands for the trumpet to be blown or bowls to be poured.
Dear, we do not need to forge the bible to mean a view that it doesn't.
I was raised in a Pentecostal church and of course hearing about the rapture of the church before the tribulation and would be in heaven for seven years celebrating our wedding with Jesus Christ and receiving our rewards. About 7 yrs ago God open my mind and started studying the Bible and testing everything. First of all many don’t pay attention to one of the signs Jesus told the apostles regarding his second coming. That sign is about a man coming in the spirit of the prophet Elijah, to restore all things. In another verse It says this individual would come during the six Holy Roman Empire after the 5 and before the seven and final resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire. But sadly he would be ignored and make fun off, ect. He left us several books which after his death were contested in the Supreme Court of the USA for seven yrs. One of the doctrines he said was incorrect was the rapture of the church before tribulation, another doctrine is that the church did not replace Israel. Israel has always been the church made up of Israelites, Jews and gentiles. Another was the identity who is Israel today and it is not the Jews our brothers. Genesis 48 tells us who inherited the birthright promise and the right to the name Israel. Our brothers the Jews no doubt are Israelites but the majority of Israelites are not Jews. Another’s was that one of the main reasons Jesus Christ came the first time was to find or reconcile with the lost sheep of the house of Israel; known to Christianity as the lost ten tribes of Israel. Jews ( Judah, Benjamin and Levi) are the kingdom or house of Judah of Judea. And so many other doctrines many churches are in disagreement with. One of those is the name of all this churches and denomination. God did not create confusion and Jesus simply said that the church is Gods. So any church should be name the church of God. ……. This servant of God was Herbert W. Armstrong.
Pre-tribulation is false doctrine and no matter how old of a source you think you have it is still false teaching. These sources are spurious either taken out of context and/or from false teachers. Since you mentioned, The Shepherd of Hermas, which was used to promote Catholic doctrine, until it was no longer useful because of Hermas’ Christology and Donatist views. So do you believe the rest of Hermas' teachings? Received from a woman/goddess/ later called an angel that accused him and then later repented of that accusation ( Bearing false witness) and gave him a book then took it back to change it. Hermas did not receive this, from the Lord Jesus Christ, who come in the flesh yet He is without sin.
Hello sir,
When is the Church Grace Age coming to an end?
When the Rapture of the church occurs, the "church age" will end. Thanks for your question. Blessings!
where is your prooftext?
we all are looking and waiting for Jesus to come back! The Bible clearly teaches that He will! The Bible also teaches us that if he did not come back sooner, that no flesh shall be saved. It is up to us to be prepared for the dark days ahead. If we believe that we will be taken out before trouble hits, that makes us a foolish virgin without enough oil to last should the groom tarry.
Read the Matthew 25.
Why do they need oil for their lamps if they were not going to face darkness, should the lord tarry? Why would the Lord tarry?
Read Revelation knowing that we are the "saints"! We are persecuted for having the testimony of Jesus! How much oil will we need to get through that?
Pre tribbers, dont think they need any oil to face the darkness.
The place where the expression "great tribulation" is utilized is in Revelation, chapter 7. John, beholding "a great multitude" (v. 9) of white robed people praising God around His throne and before the Lamb, is told:
"These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (v. 14).
But "out of" surely does not mean to be removed from; rather these believers have endured "the great tribulation" and have now come out of it, praising God and the Lamb. Here again "great tribulation" seems to refer to what happens upon the whole earth (see the opening words of Rev. 7) and the protection of believers, rather than their escape, during this time.
Jesus comes three more times. I always believed in the seven pre-tribulation rapture until after Covid.
Couldn’t watch ‘live’, but have a question I’ve been thinking about. What is the difference between immortality and eternal life? Thanks, Pastor, for reading my question. Pray you have an answer.
I think it's kinda like the difference between being married and being engaged.
We _have_ eternal life in the sense that it is promised to us.* (John 3:16)
We _will_ have immortality when we are promoted to glory. (1 Cor 15)
*Promised to those who remain in Christ.
Yes it is. And it began with a young child having a dream. Just like 7th day Adventist did. Give that some thought.
Follow the Resurrections the resurrections mentioned in the Old Testement are ALL Post-Trib Job19:25-26; Daniel 12:1-2; Isa 25:6-9; Isa 26:17-20 these resurrections occur after the tribulation. So how do we reconcile the the pretrib resurrection and the OT resurrection also Consider this Rev 20:4-5 the first resurrection which includes tribulation saints
Thanks for your comments.
The passage in Job doesn't conclusively say when Job expected to see God. It only states that he (rightly) had that expectation. The Daniel 12 passage is not conclusive and could be pointing to the beginning of the last seven years, which many believe starts with the Rapture of the church. The Isaiah passages are not conclusive either. Clearly there will be a resurrection, but it is obviously debatable when it will occur.
Regarding Revelation 20:4-5, here are some thoughts...
This is the first resurrection: If the first resurrection is a singular event, it argues well for a post-tribulation rapture, because it implies that all saints receive their resurrection bodies at the same time, immediately before the rule and reign of Jesus Christ.
This is the first resurrection: If the first resurrection is an order or class encompassing previously dead believers (who are at once with the Lord), the raptured church (already in heaven), and saints from the Great Tribulation, then the idea fits in a pre-tribulation framework.
Donald Barnhouse says of the phrase first resurrection: “It must be especially emphasized that our phrase in the Apocalypse covering this resurrection is a retrospect that looks back over all three phases (of resurrection).”
“‘The ‘first resurrection’ is not an event but an order of resurrection including all the righteous who are raised from the dead before the millennial kingdom begins.” (Walvoord)
The challenging thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet, so we need to study and arrive at our best conclusions and give grace to others who disagree.
Thanks for your thoughts. Blessings in Jesus.
One of the best teachings on the “Harpazo” is the typology of the “Betrothal” and consummation of the Jewish Wedding (Ketubah) explained in the most detail by Chuck Missler.
A man and woman was “Engaged” as we would say today, then the man(Bridegroom) would leave his Bride for a indeterminate time to build a room addition in his FATHERS house.
Then after a time NOT known the Bridegroom would return for his bride (Typically @ midnight or a later unexpected timeframe) with a shout of his betrothed name and the wedding and subsequent feast would begin. The bride and maidens were to BE ready for the Bridegroom to return at anytime (Parable of the 10 Virgins).
David clearly pointed out that The Lord will focus certain things that are important to HIS Church in it's proper timing, none of the last days teaching was literally applicable as Israel did NOT occupy their homeland from 70AD till 1948.
The tribulation is NOT for the Church, it is for the remnant of Israel to be saved (One out of three Jews) known as Jacob’s trouble and the final judgement of Christ rejecting people individually and collectively as nations.
One person nailed it that anti pre - trib people almost as a whole are angry and savagely attack other believers when these doctrinal differences are NOT salvation qualifiers and yet everyone I have debated on this subject could not argue from rightly divided scripture but from denominational bias or from “Their Pastor told them”.
In addition, Paul had to remind the Thessalonian Church what he had taught them before, as they were upset they had missed the “Harpazo” and were IN the tribulation.
Why be upset if the doctrine Paul taught them was that they would be caught away in the tribulation or at the end of it?....... the answer is because he didn’t teach them that and Paul ends his point after telling them that the Great Apostasy needed to happen first then the Anti-Christ would be revealed only after that and to comfort each other with this doctrine.
No comfort in going through the worst time in all of human history by far and Jesus emphasized this greatly. Persecution has been pointed by Satan at believers from the beginning but the tribulation is and will be God’s wrath coming down on people that will make anything that has happened pale in comparison!.
@@Rambert3 and how does this 1948 state of israel count? They are Christ rejectors.
@@Rambert3 how is it God's Wrath technically? It will a temporary time that the antichrist will have to rage rampage on Earth, *Then* God's Judgement will come and He will Purify Earth.
@@misterbobby8913 Go read Romans 10-12 Paul explains in detail The Lord is not done with the Jewish people, the tribulation is “Jacob’s trouble” and that will have the nation of Israel as a whole and individually petition Jesus personally and acknowledge him as their Messiah.
Of course if your reply is to argue on and on against a pre - trib rapture I will not engage so know that.
Zola levitt also has a great teaching explaining this also.
1 Corinthians 3:11
Did Jesus quote Old Testament scripture to prove the things that he taught? Or did he quote the Old Testament scripture because it bore witness of the Truth that he taught? Example: does John 3:16 need Isaiah 53 to prove that it is true? Or does Isaiah 53 bare witness of the Truthfulness of John 3:16?
Lastly, in light of the previous 3 scripture references, moreover the 1st; what then do you with the letters to the churches in revelation, revelation 1:8, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4,
2 Thessalonians; all in light of Matthew 24? In particular concerning the phrase; “the end”?…
Is Christ divided?
Thanks for your time sir,
Amos Warner 1:00:50
Two more times in the clouds than he physically returns to save Israel.
@35:00
I have never heard of the old earth young earth story.
im not going to lie. I honestly don't know where i am with this.
Im inclined to believe in post. only because of the clear visible scripture eluding to it..
I get where you were trying to go with sections of scripture that may elude to pre or post.
my question is this. if in scripture the texts are clear and concise pointing to post, but kind of ambiguous, and eluding what isn't clear about pre, I'm going to go right into that mystery rapture idea as well. and its kind of difficult to blame someone for going to that comment. you know?
and i understand that it doesn't say triune, or trinity in the bible. but there are clear elemental factors that show us the trinity. and give a wonderful easy to understand explanation....
all I'm saying is the explanation for post from the bible doesn't make it difficult to put together a collective thought about what it means, but pre i am sorry to say it even though you reject it does sound like some mystery secret rapture.
One thing i don't have to worry about is my salvation. what i chose to believe about this is not a deal breaker...
one thing i love about my Lord and King is he created me to use my brain, and ask difficult questions. not trying to offend. Like a true follower i think its important to have your beliefs in order as so, we can give the hope that is within is...Shalom. ....
i have to scratch my head on this. ...
i want to believe in what i believe because of evidence not because it sounds awesome, or because it offends the sensibilities...
It doesn’t matter if the theory was from 200 years ago or if any of the early church fathers taught it.
Those things don’t matter, the early church fathers taught error too, so age doesn’t matter.
The question should be, do the scriptures teach a pretrib rapture?
And that answer is, No.
study the scriptures very carefully and study the Greek in reference to the second coming. Only by changing the words in English can you get a pretrib rapture. In Greek it makes no sense.
The study of prophecy is an area where we all need to study, and then come to our own convictions, and go e grace to others who come to different conclusions. We need to disagree graciously and kindly. The thing about prophecy is this: it hasn't happened yet, so we will see which theory of eschatology comes to pass. Until then, let;'s disagree in love and grace. Blessings.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord I agree about civility in the discussion of eschatology, I don’t feel I was rude in any way, unless you consider me disagreeing and saying pretribulation is wrong to be rude.
I grew up in the doctrine of pretrib.
I didn’t know there was even any other way to think about it. It’s all I ever knew, until I started actually studying my Bible in earnest.
Every time I would come across pretrib passages in complete context of the book and chapter they never seemed quite right. They did not seem to fit as perfectly as I’d been taught when only looking at the verse out of context.
At first I chalked it up to me just not understanding because the Bible is so complex and the teachers, preachers and book authors were all so much more educated and smarter than I was.
Then after years of studying the Bible I started to understand that it wasn’t hard to understand because I wasn’t able to comprehend it. It was hard to understand because the doctrine doesn’t work when you and is full of holes when you place it in full context.
Not only is the history of the church full of tribulation and persecution, Paul says it is granted to the Philippian church to suffer for Jesus.
“Granted”
I know that doesn’t teach well on a Sunday but it’s the truth.
Most pretribbers defend the doctrine with so called “types” in scripture rather than with scripture.
Like using Enoch or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego as types or shadows of the pretrib rapture.
Or the famous Jewish wedding ceremony….I have yet to have one person that teaches that give me an original source for that story.
It is actually made up. It comes from 3 or 4 different Jewish sources that someone back in the 80’s mashed all together and it became popular in the church….I remember it was in the late 80’s or early 90’s when I first heard it.
I still don’t feel like I’ve been rude in this response. I have attacked you or you church. I’ve just said things against what I believe is a bad doctrine.
@@onehappydawg We will just disagree on our interpretations.
As far as civility, you have an undercurrent of presumptuous accusation and finality in your words. You may not realize it, but when you say things like...
"I know that doesn't teach well on a Sunday, but that's the truth".
That communicates the following...
Whoever teaches on the Rapture does it because is convenient and easy.
If they disagree with you, they are wrong. (but it's truth)
Therefore, you close the door to discussion or gracious debate.
You say Mot pre-cribbers have a mash up of analogies, etc.
How many have you listened to?
It :feels" like you lump all pre-cribbers into one basket.
My point is this: there are many great Bible scholars that could tech circles around both of us, and they respectfully disagree with one another without an undertone of disrespect or assumption.
Instead of using scripture to present your point of disagreement, you refer to the failings or pre-tribe teachers, and assign to them different reasons why they teach what they teach. That is assigning motive, and that's not wise.
As I said, we will disagree on this. Blessings to you in Jesus' name.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord ok, so I guess we’ll have to disagree on what civility in debate means.
How about just scripture.
First, one the most popular verse used in PTR, we are not appointed unto wrath.
Which I agree we are not, because the scriptures say we are not.
And every pretrib teacher I have listened to over the years, and I have listened to a lot and have read a lot of their books, say this wrath that we are not appointed to is God’s wrath.
Which again, I agree.
The tribulation is not the wrath of God. So the church can go through it.
Read Revelation 12:12-17
“…Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time…..the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ…”
The tribulation is the wrath of satan.
Those that have the testimony of Jesus(that is believers, the church)
Now, how about pretrib doctrine.
Pretrib doctrine says that the seven seals in Revelation 6 are the beginning of God’s judgment on the earth.
But, read seal 5 carefully, what does it say:
“…I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God…they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
They specifically ask God how long will it be before your judgment begins.
God doesn’t reply to them, “Can’t you see my judgment has already begun?”
No, they are told to wait awhile longer till the rest of their brethren are killed like they were.
Is God killing them in His judgment? No.
It makes no sense to say that the seals are judgment seals when in the seals themselves God is asked when His judgment would start.
@@onehappydawg Here are some verses from Revelation about the wrath of God.
The word "wrath" appears 13 times in Revelation.
10 times it speaks of the wrath of God.
2 times it speaks of the wrath of Babylon.
1 time it speaks of the wrath of the devil.
It seems clear that in Revelation, the emphasis given to the word "wrath" points us to the wrath of God.
Revelation 6:16
and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Revelation 6:17
For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
Revelation 11:18
The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”
Revelation 14:9-119 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:19
So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Revelation 15:1
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
Revelation 15:7
Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever.
Revelation 16:1
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”
Revelation 16:19
Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
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Another thing you mentioned was the idea of those under the altar asking God to avenge their deaths.
You wrote...
Now, how about pretrib doctrine.
Pretrib doctrine says that the seven seals in Revelation 6 are the beginning of God’s judgment on the earth.
But, read seal 5 carefully, what does it say:
“…I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God…they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
The entire passage reads like this...
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
It seems clear to me that those under the altar were asking for judgment top be completed. It had begun, but was not yet completed. The "avenging" had begun, but was not yet complete. It seems that they asked a question, and were told to be patient, because the judgment had begun but was not yet complete.
Therefore, the seal are seals of judgment against a God rejecting world.
Hope this helps. Blessings in Jesus!
Yes, it was concocted about 200 years ago, and it takes a lot of explaining to teach it.
I compare scripture with scripture, no one has a problem with parallel passages, that say the same things, if people would simply compare scripture with scripture and look at the common elements that would go a long way towards finding the truth.
Acts 1:11 and 1Thes 4:16-17 speak of the rapture, these verses contain elements.
1: Jesus was seen leaving and a cloud received Him out of their sight, also Angels were present, and is coming back in the same manner.
2: For the Lord, himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, we shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air
So we have Jesus returning in the clouds with the sound of the archangel and a trumpet, as those are the elements listed in those verses. it should be obvious when we see common elements across various scriptures that they are speaking of the same event. is God really trying to trick us with complicated dogmas that need much explaining, or did God intend His word too be simple so that even those of low education could read and understand it.
When Jesus spoke to the common people He taught in a manner they could understand using everyday ordinary things to teach spiritual things, salt, plow, sower, seed, everyday common things that the people could understand.
if those preaching the pre-trib rapture have to go around the moon three times to explain the pre-trib rapture what does that say when Jesus did not do it that way?
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven,
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Mar 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
these things will take place exactly as they have been laid out. oh and by the way, Revelation comes with a dire warning.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Anyone including myself that adds or taketh away from the Book of Revelation is subject to the judgments pronounced at the end of the book, if you claim that Rev 4:1 is the rapture of the church and it is not, then you have added or taketh away from that book and are subject to the pronouncements concerning that book.
none of these verses point to a pre trib rapture.
Hi Mark, Mr. Higgins is saying “pre-trib” rapture is not in scripture ❤️
@@coleensmith4089 well he’s incorrect but that’s his right to believe any way he chooses. It is in scripture. Preconceived beliefs are nearly impossible to overcome. There have been and will be multiple raptures already in Gods word. Enoch, Elijah , Jesus, church saints, two witnesses. So today it’s not there is scary.
@@johnnydough8841 don't forget phillip🙂
@@seasquawker
Yes I see that too.
I have looked at some of the advanced robotics, and there are three humans that I know of who have a robot body double, the most prominant would be Dr. Hiroshi Ishiguro - Robot Science Made in Japan
his gemenoid is an almost exact replica of himself.
For me, the abomination of desolation
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
1: and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
2: and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
3: stand in the holy place,
4: standing where it ought not
I believe that the abomination of desolation will be an exact duplicate of the beast, a robot placed, set up, stand in the holy place, standing where it ought not and this robot with 5G will be able to call up information on any person in the world and say life or death for that person.
we are already past a deadline I wondered about, the fig tree
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
The Jews became a Nation on may 14th 1948,
Psa 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
If a generation is 70-80 years, then the 80 years would end on may 14 2028, we are well into 2022 so that timeline is already off. the date would have been from may 14 2021 - may 14 2028
But there is another way of counting generations, Mat 1:1 -17
I do not think that each begotten followed a precise year count, but each one was a generation when the son was born. they could all fall in differing intervals of years, so that does not help me.
All I know is that the Generation that saw the rebirth of Israel as a nation will not pass till all be fulfilled.
how long that generation is considered to be I do not know, maybe that is a good thing to keep more people from date setting.
What scripture actually points to a pre-trib rapture?
none
Okay I do t get why he’s saying if it is in the Bible it’s true! Pretrib doesn’t have a single scripture in the Bible. It never was taught until Darby taught it! There is not any scripture! Therefore pretrib is unbiblical
I do know this. The Left Behind movies , the first one, released on Halloween October 31, 2000 and Ground Hog Day on Feb 2, 2001. It was the theatrical release. Ground Hog Day is referred to Bosnia and sending troops to Iraq. I find this to be a very odd day to release a Christian movie based on sound doctrine.
Okay so I keep coming back to this question myself, and I'm confused haha... The scripture Guzik shares here is 1Thessalonians 4:15-16, and it describes the rapture/resurrection... But it doesn't say WHEN that resurrection happens.
Unless I'm missing something, but in chapter 4 of Thessalonians Paul is comforting the church, and encouraging them to rejoice for the ones they've lost-- for they will be resurrected again one day (the Day of our Lord).
But I'm not seeing WHEN that's supposed to happen... Jesus speaks of two women grinding at the mill, one disappearing and the other getting left behind... Is that the rapture He's talking about? If so, He doesn't mention when, exactly, that will happen. And in Revelation the beast is getting people to take the mark (chpr 13) before Jesus returns (chpr 14).
Not arguing, btw-- just genuinely curious! Guzik has far more education on the Bible than I do, I'm a baby Christian still learning how to walk 🙂 but is there a scripture that definitively says the rapture will happen BEFORE the tribulation? Also, how do we know the tribulation will last 7 years?
Personally I'm preparing myself for either outcome... It seems like the smartest thing to do since there's so much disagreement over it lol
TJR, thanks for the comment and the question. You're right - the 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't speak directly to the timing of the "catching away" of God's people and the resurrection of believers. It's a matter of bringing together other passages, and this is one reason why Christians who love Jesus and take the Bible seriously can have different opinions about this. If you want a more detailed explanation of my understanding of the rapture/catching away of the church, check this out: th-cam.com/video/2QiXG7bpKec/w-d-xo.html
Finally, I agree with you completely - the smartest thing to do is to be watching and ready for the return of Jesus!
tjr you are welcome to watch my video on the subject. I hope it clears things up because scripture is constantly used to back up every statement, and we can know certainly that the tribulation occurs after the sixth seal - so it is a post tribulation but pre-wrath rapture event
I like Mr. Guzik's answer in that it is representative of ALL pre-trib pastors who must bring together lots of other passages, not one of which is definitive, such as Rev. 4:1, which they determined is symbolic of the rapture. YOU CAN'T MAKE A DOCTRINE THIS SERIOUS without plain scripture, at least ONE, that says we will not go thru this terrible end-time testing of the saints. Remember Martha speaking to Jesus, says, "I know that he (Lazarus) shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." He did not contradict her. We will all rise on that last day, the dead first, then the rest of the saints. Pre-tribbers are not ready for the trib, the worst time ever on the earth, but we who take the Bible for what it says are ready for the worst OR the easy way out. Makes sense to be ready for either.
@@2027Judah the seals are Gods wrath. Christ has to open them. Those seal judgements are absolute wrath and devastation. 1/4 of earth dies in seal 4. Prewrath fits better than mid and post but still misses the mark.
Tjr timing 2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 it says we are taken out of the way then the man of sin antichrist is revealed and when does the bible say the antichrist is revealed rev 6 1 2 that is when the antichrist confirms the covenant with many for one week so according to God's word we have to be raptured before the antichrist is revealed and rev 6 1 2 is when the antichrist is revealed so the church has to be raptured before rev 6 1 2 also daniel 9 24 says the seventy weeks are for israels redemption it doesnt say anything about the church
So Jesus said he was coming back two more times? Scripture please. And yes this theory started in the 1800’s. Scripture in no way teaches about a magic carpet ride
Dear Jimmy,
The difficult thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! The best that we can do is to study and then connect different prophetic passages and come to an honest conclusion. I believe that we can still have fellowship with believers that may have a different eschatology than we do, and we need to have grace toward one another in that regard.
Prophecy is a bit like a mosaic. We keep filling it in with different passages and try to understand what we are being told.
God bless you as you continue to study God's word!
Still waiting for the scriptures referencing the third coming?
The early church fathers (most, not all) believed in a pre-trib rapture. To say that it’s only 200 years old is patently false.
When Jesus comes the second time He will appear to those who love Him. Hebr 9:28.
This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.( Second time.Acts 1:11.)
When Jesus comes the second time He will descent from Heaven and we will meet Him in the air.( 1Thes 4:16).
When Jesus comes the second time we will be gathering together unto Him.(2 Thes 2:1).
When Jesus comes the second time He will come in flaming fire and vengeance to those unbelievers who had fallen away from the truth and then Jesus will be glorified in his saints in that day.(2Thes 1:8,10).
Before Jesus comes the second time a falling away from the truth must take place for the antichrist to be revealed.(2Thes 2:3)
When Jesus comes the second time He will destroy the antichrist with the brightness of His coming and those who had fallen away from the truth..(2Thes 2:8,10).
Nobody is going to disappear (raptured) before Jesus comes the second time.
2nd thessalonians 2 6 8 says otherwise it says we are taken out of the way then the man of sin antichrist is revealed. And when does the bible say the antichrist is revealed rev 6 1 2
The rider on the white horse is the antichrist it says he is given a crown and a bow but no arrows why? Because he conquers through peace not war daniel 11 21 confirms this it says he comes in peaceably and daniel 11 22 says he is the prince of the covenant, what covenant? The only covenant spoken of in daniel is the covenant in daniel 9 27 he the antichrist will confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the middle of the week he the antichrist will cause sacrifice and offering to stop. That is the abomination of desolation that is when the antichrist will sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself to be god
So your in error when you say nobody is going to disappear.
The other problem you have is if the rapture occurs at the second coming as you are saying how does the earth get repopulated during the millennial kingdom if all the believers that are alive on earth when jesus returns receive their glorified bodies ?
You cant put a single person without a glorified body into the millennial kingdom.
Do unsaved people enter into the millennial kingdom if so what scripture supports this?
Can people who have glorified bodies be given in marriage and bare children if so what scripture supports this as well?
If you can show how the earth gets repopulated during the millennial kingdom with a second coming rapture then please share it id love to know
Hey pastor. Even Daniel 12:4-9 denies the false accusations of a new teaching of the 19th century.
We know Daniel is parallel with revelation. what did God tell Daniel? SEAL THESE WORDS UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END. This is because early on people just couldn’t understand about end time escathology. The bible clearly says this things are kept secret until the time of the end.
Today we have enough history and technology to understand well enough about end times.
What do you think of this?
The Bible gives us much teaching about future events, and as time unfolds, things often become more clear. An example of that was God's plan for the church, was given to Paul to explain more clearly than had been previously understood. The idea that Jews and Gentiles would make up the church wasn't an idea that was clearly understood in the Old Testament, so that is an example of "progressive revelation". As time passes, things become more clear. That also applies to the teachings on "the last days".
We should study to show ourselves as approved workmen unto God, and of course that includes prophecy. The things shown to Daniel were probably not as clear to Daniel as they are to us. We have the added benefit of more revelation through the New Testament teachings. I hope that this helps!
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord Yes! God Knew back when John finished writing the book of revelation 20 centuries ago that it wasn’t time yet to focus on escathology because it was the beginning of the church age. Now 2000 years later we are approaching more and more to the end and it’s the right time.
The darby argument is irrelevant because i too believe that God’s revelation is progressive. Just because it wasn’t taught as much before doesn’t mean it’s not true. Post trib people are so mean and they even threaten us that we’re going to hell for believing in pre trib. I can’t understand why they’re like this.
When covid19 happened, so many believe in post trib and midtrib
AT THE RAPTURE; the instant removal of the bride to meet our Lord above earth where we will receive an imperishable sinless body like that of Jesus Christ.1 Cor. 15:51-57. First, church believers who died will arise to be at His side, and then those alive on Earth following them up (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). The Lord calls us from above Earth. I believe the Holy Spirit in us HEARS and actually removes us to His side! Our sin nature, Romans 3:23, is supernaturally removed (by The Holy Spirit) and our sanctification (being holy) is completed as is our salvation so we can go to Heaven. Phil. 1:6.
We are NOT appointed to God's wrath! 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; Romans 5:8-9. The bride of Christ will not go through "Tribulation" when God judges the lost world left behind. No longer will evil be restrained as one of the ministries of the Holy Spirit. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9. The bride is complete & home. That opens the door for the appearance of anti-Christ; Satan in human form!
TIMING OF RAPTURE
See John 14:3; Titus chapter 2:verses 11-15; Revelation 3:10 It is "IMMINENT"! "Maranatha" ("He comes") was the greeting to one another in the just formed church. They looked for Jesus to come in their time! WE TOO! Only God knows the time the last Christian is saved!
JESUS SAVES
Blood coming from all over his body and NAKED hanging on that cross like torture weapon! What a Lord and God and Savior! He had to do it. HE is God the Son and only His body and blood could pay the sins price of ALL ever! 1 John 2:1-2.
This channel is a blessing known to God before the world was made. Ephesians 1:1-14
2 Samuel chapter 22:verse 50 "Therefore I will praise you, O Lord, out of the countries, and I will praise your name."
There is a CROWN in Heaven awaiting all who share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and a soul is saved. See 1 Thessalonians 2: "19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 20 For you are our glory and joy." Philippians 4:1.
Mark 16: verse 15: And He said unto them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
How can anyone hear the "good" news? Romans 10:17 Then faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God.
The Birth Of Jesus Christ
Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the LORD shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and call His name Immanuel." Hebrew: עִמָּנוּאֵל, "God with us" in human flesh but without sin. The Savior of the world was born to die for our sins! He did so 33 years later. His terrible ordeal, the body was mutilated, the blood was poured out, but the bones were not broken, buried in a Tomb and risen on the 3rd day.
Isaiah 53: "5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"I am the way, the truth and the life: no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14.6
"1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;." Ephesians 1:7
Matthew 26:28 "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins and rescue us from eternal death. Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting in His death and in the shedding of His blood as payment for our sins, as well as in His burial and resurrection from the dead the third day, and we will be saved! John 20:24-31; See 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4.
Romans 10:
9 If you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart man believes in righteousness; And a confession by mouth is given to salvation.
13 For the one who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Salvation and forgiveness of sins is a blessing of all who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. We receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately which seals us in Christ Ephesians 1:13-14. Those who reject salvation, "perish"(John 3:16) which means their sins are judged and suffer separation from God forever called the second death. Rev.21:8
Yes David. I’ve been called pagan and a child of Satan for believing in pre trib. I love all people and I don’t agree with the Christians who believe in mid or post but I love them and I don’t want to fight. That’s not Christian like.
If it’s in the Bible we want it. If it’s not, we don’t. Amen 🙏
Christ argued with pharisees and was most harsh with rebuking their beliefs. Where is the word rapture in the Bible? If it’s in the Bible, we want it. If it’s not, we don’t. I agree there.
Matthew 24:29-31 (Quoting Jesus Christ)
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then tall the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Christ himself said He will return immediately AFTER tribulation. (verse 29) How can you deny Christ's own teaching in favor of another teacher? Was Jesus unclear?
The loving Christian act is to point to Christ.
The concern is many will lose faith when times get tough (tribulation) thinking they were supposed to get a free pass; perhaps they were 'left behind', not being the elect. Thus such unbiblical teaching is dangerous.
We must not contradict Christ.
Ask yourself why you believe something different to what Jesus said. The outcome of enduring persecution/tribulation sounds too unpleasant to believe it?
You need to debate Joel Richardson if you dare...
Pre-tribulation is not scriptural teaching
Yes it was.
In the book 'The Hope of Christ's Second Coming' by Samuel P. Tregelles, LL.D written *in 1864.* On page 45 he states, "But when the theory of a secret coming of Christ was first brought forward (about the year 1832), it was adopted with eagerness: it suited certain preconceived opinions, and it was accepted by some as that which harmonized contradictory thoughts. There should, however, have been a previous point determined, whether such contradictory thought, or any of them, rested on the sure warrant of God's written Word."
He also states in the notes, "I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a secret rapture of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an "utterance" in Mr. Irving's Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, ...."
Joey Nelms, Tregelles was ignorant of the fact that the rapture rescue was rediscovered during the Protestant Reformation when Englishmen rebelled against authorities by translating God's word into English, distributing Bibles widely, and then people read the Bible and thought for themselves. That's when the rapture rescue was rediscovered not in the early 1800s, and the reason why it been lost was the Roman Catholic church had been enforcing Augustine's Amillennial doctrine for well over a thousand years.
For hundreds of objective archival sources, see William Watson's “Dispensationalism Before Darby”.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Like I said in the previous post. There are certain events that *must* take place *before* God's wrath begins. So, anything that happens before that can't be part of God's wrath.
*Cohesive Chain of the Celestial Disturbances That Signal the Coming Day of the Lord’s Wrath*
*Joel **2:30**-31*
“I will produce portents both in the sky and on the earth- blood, fire, and columns of smoke. _The sunlight will be turned to darkness and the moon to the color of blood,_ *before* the day of the LORD comes- that great and terrible day!”
*Isa 13:6-13*
“Wail, for the LORD’s day of judgment is near; it comes with all the destructive power of the sovereign judge. For this reason all hands hang limp, every human heart loses its courage. They panic- cramps and pain seize hold of them like those of a woman who is straining to give birth. They look at one another in astonishment; their faces are flushed red. Look, the LORD’s day of judgment is coming; it is a day of cruelty and savage, raging anger, destroying the earth and annihilating its sinners. *Indeed the stars in the sky and their constellations no longer give out their light; the sun is darkened as soon as it rises, and the moon does not shine.* I will punish the world for its evil, and wicked people for their sin. I will put an end to the pride of the insolent, I will bring down the arrogance of tyrants. I will make human beings more scarce than pure gold, and people more scarce than gold from Ophir. So I will shake the heavens, and the earth will shake loose from its foundation, because of the fury of the LORD who commands armies, in the day he vents his raging anger” *(cf. Isa **2:10**-21; 24:1-23)* .
*Luke 21:25-28*
*“And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars,* and on the earth nations will be in distress, anxious over the roaring of the sea and the surging waves. People will be fainting from fear and from the expectation of what is coming on the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man arriving in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to happen, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
*Matt **24:29**-31*
“ *Immediately after* the suffering of those days, *the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,* and the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
*Mark 13:24-27*
“But in those days, *after* that suffering, *the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will be falling from heaven,* and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arriving in the clouds with great power and glory. Then he will send angels and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.”
*Rev 6:12-17*
“Then I looked *when the Lamb opened the sixth seal,* and a huge earthquake took place; *the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the full moon became blood red; and the stars in the sky fell* to the earth like a fig tree dropping its unripe figs when shaken by a fierce wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the very important people, the generals, the rich, the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”
Then in *Rev 7:9-14* we find:
*After this* I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, *These are they which came out of great tribulation,* and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Now, I can't leave Brother Paul out of this.
*1 Corinthians 15:51-53*
*51* Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
*52* In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, *and we shall be changed.*
*53* For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
This is not an imminence passage. We'll just change quickly.
*1 Thessalonians 4:15-18*
*15* For this we say unto you *by the word of the Lord,* that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
*16* For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
*17* Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
*18* Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Verse 15 says it's a word from the Lord. No wonder it sounds like Matthew 24!
*2 Thessalonians 2:1-3*
*1* Now we beseech you, brethren, by the *coming* of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our *gathering together* unto him,
*2* That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
*3* Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day *shall not come, except* there come a falling away *first, and* that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
If you have an example from the Koine Greek period of the word _apostasia_ that shows a physical departure PLEASE let me know.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 *Scripture is the first and final arbiter for any Rapture position.* However, wisdom would demand that the position of the early church fathers should carry weight in our final decision. The overwhelming majority of early church fathers before Augustine were premillennial “imminent intertribulationists.” That is, they believed that Christ would return and Rapture the church during the persecution by Antichrist of God’s elect. Christ would then punish the wicked and setup a kingdom on earth for one thousand years. A position now echoed in the prewrath position. A position supported by the overwhelming majority of the earliest church fathers.
*Didache Chapter 16 "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles by the twelve apostles"*
*16:1* Watch concerning your life; let not your lamps be quenched or your loins be loosed, but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour at which our Lord cometh.
*16:2* But be ye gathered together frequently, seeking what is suitable for your souls; for the whole time of your faith shall profit you not, unless ye be found perfect in the last time.
*16:3* For in the last days false prophets and seducers shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate;
*16:4* and because iniquity aboundeth they shall hate each other, and persecute each other, and deliver each other up; and then shall the Deceiver of the world appear as the Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands; and he shall do unlawful things, such as have never happened since the beginning of the world.
*16:5* Then shall the creation of man come to the fiery trial of proof, and many shall be offended and shall perish; but they who remain in their faith shall be saved by the rock of offence itself.
*16:6* And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first the sign of the appearance in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead
*16:7* -- not of all, but as it has been said, The Lord shall come and all his saints with him;
*16:8* then shall the world behold the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven.
*The Shepherd of Hermas (c.95-c.150)*
[Blessed are] you who *endure the great tribulation* that is coming on, and [blessed are] they who shall not deny their own life. _Vision 2:2_
Those, therefore, who continue steadfast, and are put through the fire, will be purified by means of it.... But the white part is the age that is to come, in which the elect of God will dwell, since those elected by God to eternal life will be spotless and pure.... *This then is the type of the great tribulation that is to come.* _Vision 4:3_
*Justin Martyr (c.110-c.165)*
He (Jesus Christ) shall come from heaven with glory, *when* the man of apostasy [the Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth *against us the Christians.* _Dialogue with Trypho, CX_
*Irenaeus (c.120-c.202)*
And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the *Church to flight.* _Against Heresies, V, 26, 1_
And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. *For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.* _Against Heresies, V,29,1_
It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [the Antichrist], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved.... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes *we may avoid him, being aware who he is.*
_Against Heresies, V,30,3,4_
For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, *which takes place after the coming of Antichrist....* [A]nd [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have *suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one.*
_Against Heresies, V,35,1_
*Tertullian (c.145-c.220)*
Heresies, at the present time, will no less rend the church by their perversion of doctrine, than will *Antichrist persecute her at that day by the cruelty of his attacks,* except that persecution make seven martyrs, (but) heresy only apostates. _The Prescription Against Heretics, IV
*Hippolytus (c.185-c.235)*
When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, *then* may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven. _On Daniel, II, 7_
In order that when those things [Antichrist's mark of the beast] come to pass, *we may be prepared for them, and not deceived.* For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifested. _Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 50_
Now, concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to *fall upon the Church from the adversary....* That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and *persecute the Church.* _Teatise on Christ and Antichrist, 60, 61, cf. 60-67_
*Cyprian (c.200-c.258)*
For you ought to know and to believe, and hold it for certain, that the day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of Antichrist to draw near, so that we must *all stand prepared for the battle;* nor consider anything but the glory of life eternal, and the crown of the confession of the Lord; and not regard those things which are coming as being such as were those which have passed away. A severer and a fiercer fight is now threatening, for which the soldiers of Christ ought to prepare themselves with uncorrupted faith and robust courage, considering that they drink the cup of Christ's blood daily, *for the reason that they themselves also may be able to shed their blood for Christ.* _Epistle 55, 7_
Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecution, or the *coming of the threatening Antichrist,* as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. *Antichrist is coming,* but above him comes Christ also. The enemy goeth about and rageth, but immediately the *Lord follows to avenge our sufferings and our wounds.* The adversary is enraged and threatens, but there is One who can deliver us *from his hands.* _Epistle 55, 7_
Oops, David, maybe you shouldn't cite John MacArthur any more. Julie Roys and others have been uncovering a lot of dirt on him (and on his hit man Phil Johnson). Financial misdeeds, abusive behavior, and big, fat lies. He may be the next Ravi.
You're insinuating some things that have been address by Johnson, so it's not right or fair to say they've actually been "uncovering a lot of dirt".
Addressed in a thuggish and very deceitful way, yes.
If you look at what both sides are saying, you'd see that the many accusations are credible and deserve investigation. But Johnson just keeps changing his story and throwing verbal punches. Unfortunately, Johnson has the much bigger audience.
Please look at what Julie Roys and other investigators are saying.
Have you seen Roy's (and others') reporting on MacArthur's many errors regarding his oft-repeated supposed memories of hanging out with friends of Dr. MLK?
@@FRN2013 I really only saw some video come up in my "Recommend" list off to the right and I took it. I only listened for a very limited time, as I don't follow Mac & his ministry whatsoever. I'm not a Calvinist ;) Cheers.
OK, my friend.
Rev 20:4-6 destroys pre trib
It’s only the second coming in reference to physically walking on the earth when Jesus feet land on the Mount of Olives. We can’t deny Revelation 1:7 as all eyes will see him. The vanishing rapture is not really self-explanatory other than it’s a mystery.
agree with your pre-trib but not your spiritual warfare---supporting deliverance ministries is vital to being part of the Bride and making the rapture. Many Calvary Chapelites may find themselves left behind as a result especially the pastors
The Bible declares that all followers of Jesus will be included in the Rapture...those who have been born again. There are many expressions of faith within the Body of Christ, and many ministries. The Bible doesn't teach us that supporting the correct ministries will get us included in the Rapture, but faith in Jesus Christ. God bless you!
70 years runs consecutive!
John 17.15 says it all clear. Should end all discution but no the blind like to be led by blinds. The cowards like ear blowers
Lol
You've done what most 1 verse theologians do.
Rip a "proof text" out if context then denounce anyone (ad hominem) that disagrees with you.
I think the bible is all about you.
In that passage Jesus was praying for the Apostles.
You might learn to read the printed ink on the page
Pastor Gene Kim on you tube explains it with Scriptures much better. No offense intended.God Bless.
Plain reading of the bible leads to a post trib, pre-wrath etc... never a pretrib rapture. If Certain doctrines have to be read into the bible then they are not biblical. There is just 1 second coming which includes a rapture not a 3rd coming called a 2nd coming in the bible.
The challenging thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! :-). Until then we all should study and come up with our own beliefs and convictions, and...give grace to those who disagree. The important thing is this: we are all looking for Jesus and believe that He is coming. Blessings as you serve Him!
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord Sorry that my comment was snarky but I was just trying to be clear and i meant it with the same meekness u had in the video. I do like your commentaries. I believe they are solid and I've used them before. I wasn't searching for your views on pretrib rapture but they were on my feed and I was surprised that you subscribe to a pre trib rapture. Godbless you.
After the tribulations.,,,
If there's no rapture then does that meen a certain generation of Christians will go through the tribulation and also the anti christ?? or is that made up by man as well ?
Ashley,
If there is no Rapture, then yes, it would seem that a generation of Christians would enter into there time that the Bible calls the Great Tribulation. The idea of the Rapture has a lot of support in the Bible, and the Great Tribulation and the Antichrist are spoken of clearly in the Bible. Thanks for writing in.
It doesn’t matter what pastors, scholars, theologians, and other biblical intellectuals say about any biblical topics such as the coming of Jesus. What matters is what the bible itself says.
And if the prophets and the apostles were men of God used by the Holy Spirit to lead people to the truth and through the truth, then we can say that God NEVER said that Jesus is coming before the Great Tribulation, which means that the church will NOT be “raptured” before the Great Tribulation.
And even people try to come to any excuse to corroborate the idea of a pre-trib rapture, the matter of fact is that the bible does NOT corroborate the “possibility” of God’s church being taken away from Earth before the Great Tribulation.
Satan is a liar.
And people who believe that God said something He NEVER said, then they believe in a lie.
Go read the bible for yourself asking the Spirit of Jesus to guide you!
MO, many good Christians disagree on prophecy, and that is allowable. What isn't allowable is that we don't show grace and love to one another. Prophecy hasn't happened yet, so we study the Bible and do our best to try to make sense of prophecy, and we allow for disagreement within the Body of Christ. Blessings as you study God's word and love His Bride!
NO! See John 14:3; Titus chapter 2:verses 11-15; Revelation 3:10 It is "IMMINENT"! "Maranatha" ("He comes") was the greeting to one another in the just formed church. They looked for Jesus to come in their time! WE TOO! Only God knows the time the last Christian is saved!
September 11, 2001 happens right after the release of the Left Behind movie on Ground Hog Day. Something is not right with this photo. The Ground Hog is about seeing his shadow. And September 11, 2001 caused people to fear their own shadow and now with Covid, people wouldn’t go out of the house afraid of their own shadow.
How about Paul letter to 2 thessalonica 2: 1-3 that man of lawlessness shall be revealed first then gathering unto the Lord will take place.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Those verses do not say what you claim
@@shredhed572 then what it does, mind there to explain
@@shredhed572 Verse three is hard to get around unless you change the definition of _apostasia._
First off, I'd like to say, Lord bless you and keep you for preaching the word of truth and salvation through Jesus Christ by way of the holy spirit our helper, guide, and our ultimate testament of the truth. I myself am convinced that we will be raptured mid tribulation. When the bible refers to the church it is not a physical temple made with human hands but, the holy spirit that dwells within you the temple of God. Acts 17:24,
The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Lets first read in John 15:26: ”When the Counselor comes, the one I will send to you from the Father - the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father - he will testify about me.
With this in mind and discussing the end times and agree with some that the woman who flees to the wildnerness with the man child spoken of in Revelation- who wears the 12 stars about her head-represents the 12 tribe's of Israel (Nation) and the man child who she carries, could be referring to the holy spirit. As we know from scripture that the Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, is believed to be the third person of the Trinity, a Triune God manifested as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, each entity itself being God. So, now brothers and sisters let us understand and not refute this truth as well when it comes to the role of the holy spirit;
John the Baptist, was sent to earth to bear witness of this truth (Jesus Christ-incarnate). I believe he was used as a depiction and merely was a living example and representation of the role, position and the power that the Holy Spirit would ultimately play within our lives. This is why Jesus said in Mark 3:29, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and His power [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin [a sin which is unforgivable in this present age as well as in the age to come]”-
Jesus always spoke to people in parables so we would further understand through metaphors, depictions, and mental illustrations: That we would grasp, understand, accept, know, comprehend, and acknowledge the truth, power, and gift of the Holy Spirit: 15 “If you love me, keep my commands.16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live in you also will live.20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
So let's read this verse in
John 1: 7,
as it talks about John the Baptist and also refers metaphorically to the function of the Holy Spirit.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear truth of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
John 1:23
John replied, in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’”
Not lets return to woman spoken of in prophecy as it relates to her fleeing from the dragon (the devil) and flees into the wilderness: Revelation 12:6,
Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that she would be nourished there for a thousand two hundred and sixty days (forty-two months; three and one-half years). This 1260 days refers to the future time called the Great tribulation which is seperate from the first 3-1/2 years of the tribulation period that equates to 1260 days which; is 42 months of 30 days each which is the same as 3 and a 1/2 years halfway through the tribulation. The Anti-Christ will set up an image of himself in the temple that will be Built-in Jerusalem this is the abomination that causes desolation that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, when the beast does this he breaks the peace pact (agreement) he had originally made with Israel and the surrounding nations.
The secret of lawlessness is already working, only it cannot be revealed until he who now withholds disappears from the midst.” I believe this “disappearing from the midst into the wilderness” will happen at the time the church leaves the earth at the rapture (mid tribulation). The Holy Spirit will still be present in the earth, of course, but He will be taken out of the way in the sense that his unique sin-restraining power of ministry-through God’s people-will be removed.
Lord Bless you and may the Lord Jesus Christ richly dwell in your hearts 💕 🙏
God bless you as you continue to study God's word!
I have loved you for years my dear brother in Christ.
A shout, and trumpeting, "we who are alive and remain". This will be a glorious and loud event with shouting and trumpeting the arrival of Jesus Christ(Yeshua), when the ones who managed to remain alive to the end of the 7 years of the Great-Tribulation, are only then caught-up to be with our Lord forever.
Consider all the suffering through the ages, used as examples of suffering for God's glory. Even Jesus, the Son of God, with His faithful soon to follow, all suffered mightily, to what end? We all know, the rewards for suffering into martyrdom are great. Jesus, though wishing to be delivered, chose death by torture to satisfy His Father's Will. What is this "rapture" but a scheme to be hidden form suffering, satisfying not God's Will, but rather Satan's attempt to rob the Saints of their crowns.
"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne"
What crowns will the "raptured' have to cast before the throne? Yeshua Messiah didn't have to suffer to His end, but He did, knowing in His heart, it would save us from our sins.
rapture(n.)
c.1600, "act of carrying off" as prey or plunder, from rapt + -ure, or else from French rapture, from Medieval Latin raptura "seizure, rape, kidnapping," from Latin raptus "a carrying off, abduction, snatching away; rape" (see rapt). The earliest attested use in English is with women as objects and in 17c. it sometimes meant rape (v.), which word is a cognate of this one.
From Etymonline(Etymology Dictionary)
Blessings on you!
I see that you are not confident in your own assumptions. You need to listen to the other peoples side of the theory
rapture(n.)
c.1600, "act of carrying off" as prey or plunder, from rapt + -ure, or else from French rapture, from Medieval Latin raptura "seizure, rape, kidnapping," from Latin raptus "a carrying off, abduction, snatching away; rape" (see rapt). The earliest attested use in English is with women as objects and in 17c. it sometimes meant rape (v.), which word is a cognate of this one.
Pre, post, mid - all assume the validity of the future 7 tribulation and they call it Jacobs trouble. They take Jacobs trouble from Jer 30 … 7 years from Dan 9 and … you get 7 year tribulation. This is wrong on many levels. No wonder so many Christians are week in doctrine - because they drink this sour soup of verses mixed together and taken out of context.
The Lord is coming and he will reprove those who teach and hold wrong doctrines! I wish teachers and preachers would pause and think about what they teach.
Dear Alex,
The difficult thing about prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet! The best that we can do is to study and then connect different prophetic passages and come to an honest conclusion. I believe that we can still have fellowship with believers that may have a different eschatology than we do, and we need to have grace toward one another in that regard.
Prophecy is a bit like a mosaic. We keep filling it in with different passages and try to understand what we are being told.
God bless you as you continue to study God's word!
Do me a favor and do a study on the 3 major harvests in Israel. There are lots of minor crops but, there are 3 major harvest crops. They are barley, wheat, and grapes. You will study several verses that show these crops. Barley and wheat are both planted at the same time but Barley matures faster...apply that spiritually. 🙂 There are 3 companies departing out of here. Barley is his bride. She is the first fruits of the new creation. She leaves at pre trib. The Lord shows us this in type and shadow in Genesis. WHILE ADAM SLEPT (the church as a whole is in a deep sleep because of the apostasy) GOD FORMED A BRIDE OUT OF HIS RIB. This is a small company of believers that will make up a remnant bride.....a rib portion. She is caught up in Rev 4 when he tells John, "Come up here!" He is caught up directly into the throne room.
The bulk of the church will be left and be gathered up shortly after. They loaded onto a new ship in Acts 27.....Castor and Pollock. They are headed to Phoenecia in Rome!!! Do you know what Phoenecia means? LAND OF THE PALMS🌴 Which is very interesting because that is what the bulk of the church is found holding in their hands when they are gathered up to heaven in Rev 7 as the great multitude AKA...The Innumerable Company. The Lord wiped tears from their eyes, they realized what they missed. The final company is the 144, 000 Jews that is caught up to the 3rd heaves, right at mid trib. This is the grape company harvest. The door is shut in heaven because the celestial mystical body is now complete!!!
Think of this:
* There are 3 stories in Noah's ark.
* There is a Barley, wheat, and grapes company
* some sowed 100, some 60, some 30
* There is Sun glory saints, moon glory saints, and star glory saints
* Peter was given the vision on the rooftop of a fitted sheet with all manner of beasts inside from the four corners of the earth from every nation and tongue....He saw it come down THRICE...3 TIMES!!!
* You can see these 3 ranks in Acts 27 the swimmers swam to shore, some floated in on boards, and others came in still holding onto pieces of the ship...3 groups of people
Barnabus (AD 100)
Irenues,(against heresies)
Hippolytus (disciple of Irenius) 2nd century.
Justin Martyr, Ephraim the Assyrian 4th century. Not new
These guys taught that we would face the antichrist.
Who cares how old it is? Back in Paul's day there were Judaizers and Gnostics. Most reputable scholars and early believers even the reformers believed in what we'd call Amilleninalism. It took me 20 years for God to open my eyes to it. Premillenialism never made sense and no matter how I tried I could not make it fit in with the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. I read Revelation 19 over and over amd read chapter 20 until I realized they cannot be in order. Its impossible. So then I turned to a symbolic, re-telling that is rev 20. If you cant read Revelation correct, you'll never understand it. Its not in order. And you'll hold to dispensational pre- millenialism, because that's what most of us have been taught our whole lives. They invented this 7 years, Jews being the center of everything again. But that's not what Scripture teaches.
Seems to be quite common for post trib and amills to make derogatory remarks to pre tribbers. A sort of patronising, insulting attitude to the extent I wonder if they really are Christians.
Its because we see the doctrine as demonic. It also has a selfish orientatation about it. Western, privileged Pre tribbers seem to expect they are entitled to a VIP ticket out of here when countless Christians as we speak suffer for the faith. They don't show the proper regard to Christians who have died before them or Christians who die now, look at north korea, afghanistan, somalia etc. Hence we see the doctrine as exactly what it is... selfish, spoilt, ignorant, entitled and cowardly. It is a doctrine that is inconsistent with the righteousness of Christ. Jesus specifically said "In this world you will have trouble but take heart, I have overcome the world" (John 14:33) and "You must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22) You must get out of the false view that the 7 year tribulation is all about the wrath of God. It is not... His wrath is right at the end when he is revealed in flaming fire. The wrath of man, Antichrist and the devil is the main hallmark of the trib. It is one short time period that Satan gets to run rampant.
@@aquila813apologetics3
Interesting you know the hearts of ppl you've never met.
Your arguments are ad hominem which is a fallacy.
Simply attacking the character of someone is not a biblical argument.
Please study to show YOURSELF approved
@@shredhed572 Sorry my brother. I mean no offence to the brothers of the faith... this doctrine however is an utter disgrace and is so fictional and deceptive.
Post Trib pre wrath
I found that not long after I was saved that Rev ch 6 proves pretribe rapture is false teahing and people don't want to here it which is bad. 1st thess 1:10 and 5:9 and Romans 5:9 say we are not appointed the wrath but the wrath doesn't happen until after the tribulations have come.
Rev ch 6 is the tribulation and it has begun and the saints are there in Rev 6:9-11,still there. But in Rev 6:16-17 we see the Wrath has come. What worries me is that a lot of believers will believe that there belief was in vain and lose faith.
We will suffer the Tribulation but not wrath. I believe Rev 6:12-17 descibes a nuclear war,ever watch videos of nuclear bombs rolling the clouds like a scroll. Thats the only way John could describe what he saw. You see in Rev ch 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, [a]“Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. 16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to [b]living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
I’m Ethiopian Messianic Ghabarayic Yashar’elite I read, write, speak, Ghabaray, Aramaic, and Koine Greek and by for I laugh at this entire video. I’m not stating my nationality to get kudos, I’m stating my nationality to let you all know I have a different element than you all that was raised with the western secular teachings. Yes the catching up in the air is in the Canon, unfortunately No where in any of the ancient languages where it was taught in the manner of the western world. The catching up is in the Bible but the way the 4 scriptures are written and spread apart most westerners believe we will not go through nor see the events happen. That’s so far further from the truth. Mind you there are only 4 total scriptural areas that specifically speaks about the catching up so there’s not much studying on that part. The other element the west lacks is the Ghabaray/Aramaic terminology and how it correlates with Koine Greek, the different saying, the customs of the ancient world, slang, traditions, and humor in the ancient languages of the Canon. Honestly when I was little I remember a pastor said the Ghabaray was a dead language. I asked my dad what the pastor meant as a dead language and he told me "it’s when a language is so old it evolves to a more modern day language. So I asked my dad is our language dead and he told me "No"! They just don’t understand what’s going on. He told he they will soon find out. Now at 44 years old and have an education and still speaking Ghabaray the ancient tongues it saddens me that there is a secret the western world doesn’t know but sooner or later and hopefully not later there’s going to be a huge smack in the face of every person on the face of the earth and the answers were right in front of them outside of the 66 books of the Bible, but backing up the 66 books of the Bible . The problem is modern day pastors think they know the ends and outs of the ancient manuscripts, I assure they don’t. 68% of Alkebuulan tribes embedded the ancient Ghabaray tongues in another language but around our own kind we speak Ghabaray. This is one thing that’s not told until the time is right, and now the time is right. Sooner or later you all will get the chance to hear the Paleo Ghabaray tongues, the same tongues that was spoken before the the Babylonian captivity. They called my language PRIMITIVE…..WOW! That’s quite insulting!
What is your point?
They are not stupid they are liars and false teachers
Where in the Book of Revelation does the Rapture of the Alive in Christ and Resurrection of the Dead in Christ?
Answer:
Rev. 16:15 NKJV - The Sixth Bowls Judgment and The Sixth Angel
“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
Rev. 9:21 NKJV - The Bride introduced to John by one of the Angels of the Seven Bowls Judgment
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
Logical Conclusion:
THE SIXTH ANGEL IS THE ONE WHO WITNESSED THE RAPTURE AND RESURRECTION
There is no PRE-trib rapture. Although there are 2 raptures at Jesus coming. That is to say that at the second coming of Jesus, the dead in Christ will rise first to meet Jesus in the air, and 2nd the living will be gathered to meet christ in the air also.
Notice Jesus tells us in the book of Mark when he is coming for the elect and it's after the tribulation, though not before the sun and moon are darkened
Tribulation saints are those whom die in Jesus name during the time of the tribulation.
Though the tribulation is not to be mistaken for the Wrath of God that will be poured out after the rapture, that is appointed for the unbelievers and those who took the Mark of the beast.
- Mark 13:23-27
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Jesus and most all the apostles were killed as exapmles as how we should also be obedient unto death
-- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
- Do not take the VAX
let no man decieve you Your not born agian or follow Jesus if your living in sin. Be ready The Lord is coming soon do not take the Mark of the beast.
Soon the second phase will roll out and they will start to crack down on vaccine card counterfeiting by implementing new vaccine placed on hand or forhead with Luciferase invisible tattoo patch. Preventing anyone without the Vax entry to stores to buy or sell.
- Research Nano Patch / Luciferase invisible mark/ microneedle Array/ Mark of the Beast vaccine thats is placed on the hand or forhead for vaccine passport registered via your smart phone.
Calvinist is not biblical it's heresy, Calvinist AKA reformed theology teach Jesus did not die for everyone but only for those whom God called.
Beware of these false teachers like Allen parr/Good hope/ Paul washer,John Macarthur /James white/Jeff durbin/Voddie Baucham/John piper/calvinist/ easy believeism/ once saved always saved/eternal security/ Hyper Grace.
all of them practicing theies Calvinist teachings.
Scofield comments 1 Thes 4 is the second coming. 1 Cor 15:52 comments states some think it is pre-trib and some think post-trib. Scofield did not take a position.
1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with a resurrection. There is only one resurrection (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6).
Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We don't float up into the sky and disappear. Life is normal (eating, drinking, etc.), then there is a flash of light and dead bodies.
Why would the dead in Christ need a new body before the tribulation? Are they naked in heaven (2 Cor 5)? The resurrection is for earth, not heaven.
Maranatha!
Wrong. There are two resurrection else the scriptures would not mention "FIRST Resurrection" in Rev 20: 5. The other resurrection is after the 1000 years. The OT saints did not know there were 2 resurrections. The Bible clearly says Rev 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: *on such the second death hath no power*, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This means there is no condemnation in the first resurrection but there is another resurrection where you have condemnation.
Also, this resurrection doesn't really happen AFTER Jesus comes in Rev 19. If so, what about those who rose from the dead in Mar 27: 52-53? What about the two witnesses BEFORE the 7th trumpet even sounded?
The day of the Lord comes as a thief in the NIGHT (tribulation) but Jesus comes a thief ONLY. No one know when He will come. If He is coming when everyone is watching then He is not coming as a thief then. He will come with a flash of lightning and the dead are risen (resurrected) from the grave and those alive are caught up (raptured).
Why did Jesus need resurrection? Why did He have to come back for His dead body?
@@Just_in_Rich I believe there is a spirit world and a material world. God created both worlds and both are good. The spirit world does not contain flesh (1 Corinthians 15:50). When Jesus presented himself to the disciples he a had a body of flesh and bones. I believe when he went back to heaven the material body changed to spirit. We can't see heaven with a telescope, or any other kind of man-made device.
>> Why did Jesus need resurrection? Why did He have to come back for His dead body?
He came to show us he has power over death.
@@Just_in_Rich I think "FIRST" is a bad translation. A better translation would be "the most important resurrection." You won;t find the words "second resurrection" in Rev 20 in any English translation. Why would the wicked get an immortal, glorified body at the end of the millennium? The two witnesses and the many at Christ's resurrection is not the entire church. For the sake of the wicked, I hope we do come out of the graves and rise and disappear into the sky at the pre-trib rapture because that is what is predominately taught. However, I believe we will leave our flesh on earth (Luke 17:37, Matthew 24:28). It is the same process before the pre-trib rapture. Our body dies and our spirit is taken to heaven. At the second coming, we get a new earthly body for the millennium.
@@onetakendotnet Not only to show that He had power over death but the earthly body had transformed to the heavenly body or the glorious body which cannot be explained. Not only Jesus the OT saints also were raised from the grave. Remember the graves were opened and people saw them. But that they did not go back to sleep in the grave but I believe they were taken up with Jesus.
Very good points....but even if the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine only recently began, it would not be less Biblical. Daniel 12:4 implies that not only worldly knowledge, but Biblical knowledge and understanding will increase near the end of this age...so the often perceived youth of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine should not be relevant.
Jesus at some point meets His elect in the air...and He at a completely separate point touches His feet on the ground at the Mount of Olives. These are two separate events of Jesus' second coming. Why is it so hard for folks to allow for the possibility that Jesus catches away His grain harvest just prior to a tribulation period, through which His grape harvest is produced?
Given the social condition of the world, we may not have to quarrel much longer about the timing of the rapture. It appears the stage is being set for the return of Jesus.
For those who do not yet know and trust in Him, now would be a good time to get acquainted.
Kjv Translator taught against pre-trib write me for proof.
Every post tribber pre wrather seventh day Adventist follow replacement theology and works salvation. They replace Gods chosen people israel with the church. They also dont truly believe that the blood jesus shed on the cross was enought to atone for their sin if they did why do they put the body of christ and christ himself through his own judgments?
It’s not even 200!years old. And yes it started with a child’s dream. V
The Thessalonians were facing such heavy persecution that they started to believe judgement day - the day of the Lord had arrived. What scared and puzzled them was that Paul had previously encouraged them that Christ would soon snatch them out of this world PRIOR to that day.
He then had to write to them to correct this so they would remain encouraged.
Therefore, if Paul had any doubt that the rapture could occur after the start of the tribulation, his epistle becomes irrelevant and illogical.
The purpose of the 70th week is to bring judgment to an unrepentant world and bring Israel to salvation.
Our judgement has already been laid upon Christ at the cross.
To even imply that we still need to go through some judgment, either partially or totally, is blasphemy to the perfect redemption plan of God at calvary
Catholic not preaching the rapture
Total post trib
so what you are saying is that the word "destruction" and "tribulation" are synonymous? Listen buddy, the lord is coming back ONE time not twice as left behind has thought you. There will be no second Chance for people to get it right, this is false doctrine, not biblical at all. The early church /apostles never believed this. There will be a tribulation - persecution of the church, which EVERYONE will go through, then the lord will come back to rapture his church and destroy the world. You clearly have not read Matthew 24, go ahead and read the whole thing.
Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the
disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell Us,
When shall these things be? and what shall be the
sign of thy coming and of the END OF THE WORLD?
Tell me then, why would Jesus tell the disciples about the signs of his coming AND the end of the world if his people was not going to be here?
Matthew 24 debunks everything you are saying
There is no left behind. This is a large misinterpretation
“2 aspects of the 2nd coming of Jesus” is an excuse not to say Second and Third coming; one before the Great tribulation and the other one after it, which is a BIG lie. The bible does not teach that at all.
MO, there are many good and true followers of Jesus that disagree on aspects on prophecy. We need to "study to show ourselves approved", but the challenging aspect of prophecy is that it hasn't happened yet. Therefore, we study and try to make a determination of what the Bible is saying, and we need to give grace to brothers and sisters that have a different point of view. Thanks for joining us. Blessings.
That's nothing but a straw man, and that being interpreted means, you have no argument. The Rapture takes place in the air, whereas at the Second Coming, Christ returns all the way to Earth for the millennial reign. I find it interesting also that you provided no scripture nor did you posit your position. You simply weighed in against the pre-tribulation rapture. That qualifies you as a bona fide troll, just saying.
@@DavidGuzikEnduringWord It is not about whether or not the prophecies have been fulfilled in real life. It is about whether or not the teachings about God's promises and revelations are in harmony with the very words of God Himself according to the scriptures. And believing and teaching that God promised that the church will be caught up to meet with Jesus in the air before the Great Tribulation and that the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God is a very big lie that looks like a small lie which in reality will be one of the causes of the great christian falling away and one of the reasons why many people will not inherit the kingdom along with Jesus and, worse, one of the reasons why many people will go to the lake of fire.
@@Kman., have you tried reading the bible for yourself? Have you tried asking God for guidance while reading it? Have you tried questioning your own thoughts while reading the scriptures? Being wrong is not the problem. The problem is being wrong while believing to be right and pass the wrong interpretations and understandings along to others. Depending on the subject, one might not lose salvation but they can lose rewards when the judgement day for the believers comes. Yes, all believers will be judged by Jesus and the apostles and if your work foundation is not laid on Jesus, then, your work will burn like a hay and straw in the fire. And the pre-trib rapture will burn even before getting close to the fire. My concern is whether or not the ones teaching or learning this doctrine of lies will burn with it also. Just saying.
By the way, when you wrote about "providing scriptures", do you mean you really care about what the bible says or was that just an attempt to shut down the point I made???? Because I could just say "the whole bible from Genesis to Apocalypse is your reference against the pre-trib". For example, you can learn about God's timeline to fulfill His promises through the days of creation and the 7 feasts of God which was two of many scriptures information that Paul and all the apostles used to talk about the kingdom.
@@MO-cr8tt Well I would disagree. People who claim to be correct about prophecy can't prove it, because it hasn't happened. Also, the idea of the Rapture didn't get invented apart from Biblical consideration. Many people have studied the Bible, scholars and great teachers, and some have determined that there is a valid belief in the Rapture of the church. So, we shall agree to disagree, and disagreement is OK between Believers.
Blessings in Jesus.
Satan is a liar
The question was, "Is the pre tribulation rapture something that was invented just 200 years ago?"
To this question, instead of being able to directly answer the question - yes, or no, it's only 200 years old, the fact that he has to beat around the bush and go roundabout all over the place not being able to just give a direct answer to the simple question lets me know this pastor is someone that believes in the pretribulation rapture and that it is only 200 years old. lol. I got his answer in the first 5 minutes.
You wrote: "Is the pre tribulation rapture something that was invented just 200 years ago?"
What, exactly, do you mean by your term, "invented"?
Would you use your term, "invented," regarding doctrines which you would say are taught in the Bible? Would you say, for instance, that Paul "invented" doctrines which you would say Paul taught?
Instead of saying "invented", perhaps we might say "understood, explained", etc. The doctrines of God are certainly not invented by men, but they are observed, explained and applied by men. Some might say that the Rapture is a newer understanding or explanation, while others say that the teaching of the Rapture was always revealed by God, but more recently understood or emphasized/embraced.
I have been blessed by your ministry, David, but respectfully disagree here. Here is some scripture to give the other side of the argument. God bless!
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands [...]
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Revelation 7:9, 13-14
19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. - Matthew 24:19-22 (Also, Mark 13:19-20)
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. - Matthew 24:29-31 (Also, Mark 13:24-26)
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5
21 After they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.” - Acts 24:21-22
These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” - John 16:33
You've provided scripture with no explanation as to what you think they mean. You're suggesting that finding the *WORD* "tribulation" represents _THEE_ tribulation? The few verses you've quoted would represent trials, troubles, difficulties, hardships, etc but in no way is representative of the 7 year period that is focused on the Jewish people in the end times.
@@Kman. I wanted to leave interpretation out and let the verses speak for themselves. But the verse in Revelation 7:14 is quite clear. It says the ones who are in heaven came out of "the great tribulation". This is not general but specific.
Also, when Jesus talks about the end times and the last tribulation in Matthew 24, He uses the same exact phrase to describe it: "great tribulation". Later in that chapter, you can see clearly that the return of the Son of Man in the clouds comes after the "tribulation of those days." And that's when he raptures His people.
God bless.
@@Ironike You can't just quote some verses and leave them at that...you certainly believe the verses to say s/thing specific, right? A pastor doesn't just stand up behind a pulpit...read some verses, then sit down, right? No, he takes the time to share what HE believes the bible is saying.
Yes, the Son of Man comes "AFTER THE TRIBULATION", annnnnnnnnnnnd?
@@Kman. Please read the verses carefully. Both in Revelation and Matthew you see that the saints go through the great tribulation. They are not raptured out of it.
What I meant with Matthew 24, is that Jesus comes in the clouds and raptures His people after the tribulation of those days. Sorry forgot to add that in there.
We may disagree, but let's always exhort with grace and humility. It may very well be that I am the person who is wrong here.
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. - 2 Timothy 4:2.
@@Ironike In the OT, believers were referred to as "saints", and we know that *Matthew 24* is not speaking of them, right? People during the tribulation that come to Christ will *BECOME* "saints", but the church age is in heaven during this time.
*Rev 4:10* points to believers already in heaven, which is *BEFORE* the tribulation begins, yet in *Rev 7:14* _AFTER_ the tribulation has begun, John asks *WHO* this group is, and *THESE* are the ones identified as martyrs; “…These are they which came out of great tribulation…”. It's all about context & comparing scripture with scripture.
What you see taking place in *Matt 24* is the fulfillment of prophecy. Recall what *Matt **23:37* says? “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have GATHERED thy children together, even as a hen *GATHERETH* her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
Well in *Matt **24:31* you find this, “…they shall *GATHER* together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” The word "ELECT" is used for those He "gathers", the Jews. And notice where they're *GATHERED* from in that verse & compare that with these verses...
*Ez **5:10* “…and the whole remnant of thee will I SCATTER into ALL THE WINDS”
*Ez **17:21* “…and they that remain shall be SCATTERED toward ALL WINDS…”
*Zech 2;6* “…for I have SPREAD you abroad AS THE FOUR WINDS of the heaven, saith the LORD.”
*Isaiah 43:5,6* says, “Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the *EAST* and gather thee from the *WEST;* I will say to the *NORTH* give up; and to the *SOUTH,* Keep not back: bring my sons from *FAR,* and my daughters from the *ENDS OF THE EARTH”*
Much more could be said, but the above I believe provides ample support, for the ones in *Matt 24* that are being "GATHERED", are the Jews. If not, where are the Jews in end time prophesy? Are we to think God is finished dealing with them? There is *MUCH* prophesy yet to be fulfilled during these end times, and the Jewish people play such an important role in all of this. Cheers.
Nope
Pretriber are liar