Excellent job guys!! Im a carpenter/plumber /GC. My clients always believe that if a water heater looks good from the outside then the world is perfect. Now I have something to show them. Keep up the good work!
Guys, Thank you for that great informative video. You have just made an old plumber very happy. Truth, I had bits & pieces of that knowledge but you guys put it all together in a very coherent form. Once again, very well done & thanks.
Builder of 50 years. Licensed originally in Boston 1972. Nearly every perforated pipe I have ever dealt with, was perforated from the outside, not the inside. And the source of that perforation ON THE COLD WATER PIPES has always been from improperly vented fuel burning appliances,,, furnaces, boilers, hot water heaters. Mostly older equipment, mostly oil burners,,, but the common thread has been sulfur dioxide or nitrogen oxides combining with condensate on the exterior of cold water pipes, over a period of years. Yes, an iron flake can eat a hole in a pipe,,,, but that is very likely from the previous water heater,,,, it takes years. And the more common source,,, is the common iron to copper connection that does not have a dielectric union. Some one can come through years later and cut and install new,, or remove all the old iron,,, but it can still leave its pieces behind in the pipes. Annnnnnd it is ALL dependent upon the average or normal ph of the water. You did mention that,,, usually a city wide or regional characteristic.
+doctor shred because standard iron is a crappy product that rusts and flakes. the flakes land on things and can remain on the threads and inside the copper pipes
Copper does not normally "corrode" away and leave perforations, that green verdigris patina is what PROTECTS the metal from further corrosion, that is why thin sheet copper roofs on churches, skylights and flashing on old buildings is still there even after 100 plus years exposed to the direct weather, I have several machine stamped sheet copper artifacts from demolished buildings that are in mint condition despite exposure for decades and more to polluted NYC air, hot, cold, wind, snow, ice, rain etc.I'm with you, something other than simply corrosion perforates copper pipes in a home- like combustion bi-products.
Just learned this now. I had no idea that flux on the cold line could do such a thing. Have that very issue as pin holes are developing everywhere and all around the copper tubing. Mostly near joints.
Regarding getting the anode rod out, I tried with a socket and breaker bar, and it was no dice. Even used a pretty darn long breaker bar and that sucker wasn't moving and the tank was spinning all around. I was amazed, though, at how quickly a corded Kobalt electric impact gun got it out. I think the key is every year taking it out, checking it, and putting it back in at about 80 foot pounds. One of those "do every year when you change the smoke detector batteries" jobs. Once you get it out and put it back in only at a decent tug, always using teflon tape and cleaning off the threads with an old toothbrush, it's not hard to get it out afterwards.
Trethewey is hands down the greatest. Been watching him since the 80's. Iron is less noble than copper so the recirculating iron thru the homeowners HW pipe is NOT the direct reason the copper corroded. It's the iron laying down on the copper pipe and the copper corrosion is from under deposit corrosion. Dissimilar metals in an electrolyte, release of hydrogen ions and a localized pH depression that created the pit.
Has anyone tried to replace an anode rod? The heater manufacturers jam those things in so tight that it's often impossible to remove them. Not only that, but the tanks are invariably round cylinders. I did, eventually, get my anode rod undone on my GE heater. I estimated it was tightened to about 800 ft pounds. It took a 7ft crow bar to get the thing undone - and screwed-on earthquake straps to stop the tank rotating. My air impact driver was not up to the job. The original anode rod was flush with the top outside surface of the tank - when I tightened the new one in, to a more sensible 50ft pounds, it was about 3/8" proud of the top of the tank showing just how stupidly tight the manufacturer installed the original. One can only assume that the tank manufacturers don't want you to replace the rods - they would rather you replace the whole tank.
I have gotten Anode Rods out with a Breaker Bar and Sockets. I had an Electric Water Heater inside a closet space which only allowed me to use a very short Cheater Bar on the Breaker Bar.
Same happened to me, tried replacement or rod and couldn’t budge without twisting heater off the floor. Once it finally shit the bed went with tankless gas heater and never looked back
Bought a 1966 track home and wondered about the water heater after I bought it. Found out it was the ORIGINAL water heater. LOL Just like painting and caulking; if you do not take care of your home, problems occur! Needless to say that water heater is long gone.
This is good info to know as our old house has the old galvanized lines in it that will need to be replaced as I know some have rust inside them because I have to clean rust out the aerator on the bathroom sink a number of times per year.
We had well water on one house that we bought for cheap and put in all new mechanical. It was a hot water heat system in the house. Every new water handling component from the well pump, indirect hot water tank tank for domestic water, and the boiler internals were stainless steel. The installer serviced them after the first 5 years and I watched them open everything up. You could still eat off the gleaming white stainless surface inside. Stainless internals are the way to go these days if you can afford the up front cost. They will last dang near forever.
Copper is the most noble of all the metals here. Having had to deal with galvanic corrosion in naval environments, I don’t buy it was the iron-at least alone. I’m betting the water is acidic and it’s a well. The inside of that water heater (NOT a hot water heater) is horrific. The glass lining should stop some of this, but that’s not just an anode failure-some was left. Funny how we never heard from the “engineer” with the results. I’m a PE and I’d love to see the actual report.
In our water system the anode swells up and cannot be removed to be replaced. I have cut many apart and they all generally have plenty of anode (zinc alloy) but it is porous and swollen. If they made the pipe plug that holds it two or so times larger than the diameter of the anode it would be an easy solution. The manufacturers know this and intentionally design them to last ten to fifteen years maximum and then have to be replaced. This is another engineered problem done to the homeowner. Doug
Douglas Thompson, You wrote: " If they made the pipe plug that holds it two or so times larger than the diameter of the anode it would be an easy solution. The manufacturers know this and intentionally design them to last ten to fifteen years maximum and then have to be replaced. This is another engineered problem done to the homeowner. Doug" Wow, that really is a dirty thing to do. I suppose that I should not be surprised.
Is there any kind of standardization to them or are they all different based on the model? Mine's at the 10 year mark, so I guess it's an English muffin now.
Thanks for the great video... I'm so screwed...well guess when my boiler starts having issues, I'll just buy a replacement rather than trying to have it fixed...with the state of my hot water pipes, my boiler must be a lump of rust by now...
Thank you for providing this informative and helpful video. The cutaway water heater shocked me into realizing that I never thought about replacing the original anode in my 9 year old, 12 year rated, water heater. Thanks to my son-in-law, and his impact wrench, we were able to remove the old one. I don't think we could have removed it with just a breaker bar. The original anode still had a fair amount of magnesium still present, although it was quite pitted, as expected. I stuck an endoscope into the anode opening, and was relieved to see that the interior walls didn't look bad at all. There were some deposits near the top, perhaps calcium, but the walls looked pretty pristine otherwise. Of course, I was seeing a very limited area, but I'm satisfied that I should get a few more years of life out of my old heater.
I bought it through Amazon www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003110YN8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I discovered afterward that supplyhouse.com, (from which I have had very good service on a variety of other product purchases), also has a variety of anode rods available.
I had to use an impact gun to remove my anode as well. Mine was making a popping noise due to sediment and found the only way to get the sediment out was to: drain the water, haul it outside, pull the T&P valve, the anode and the drain valve, carefully lay it on it's side and spray the garden hose in the anode hole. I then got two handfuls of white sediment to come out of it and no more popping noises. I also noticed the probe on my T&P was wobbly and now I see a small puddle from it every once in awhile, so probably I should have replaced that too. I also replaced the crappy plastic drain valve with a brass one.
phiksit Before replacing a T&P valve, check two things. 1 that the expansion tank is present and still has air in it. 2. That the house water pressure is regulated down to 60-70 psi. Either issue will make a good t&p valve leak. I had both.
I make sure to use a water soluable soldering flux, it washes away and doesn't stay in the pipes. Oil based fluxes are more like vasoline and can stay inside the pipe.
Might be nice if they mentioned the common problem of the 5 ft tall heater with a 4 ft long anode rod, and only a 6-7 ft tall basement ceiling. There are replacement rods available in segmented fashion with a cable holding all the pieces together. IOW, it's flexible so you can change it in low clearance situation.
Since I don't know what I'm doing as a general handyman and puppet head. I've taken to flushing new work on cold water pipes with a tank full of hot water. A couple of fittings extra and a temporary hose. Seems like it's worthwhile.
This video was posted in 2014. It's now 2020 so I'm a little late to the party. This is very interesting information. I've had 2 pin holes on 2 separate occasions in my cold water feed to my second floor vanity. It destroyed the first floor ceiling and wall. I'm in the middle of repairing the second incident so I'm replacing the copper with PEX on as much copper as I can access from the demolition removal.
I have well water with iron and sure glad I have pex .But what does this water do to my water heater and other items .I would love a tankless but seen them fail here time after time .I am guessing because of the iron .My fridge line was replaced with copper line 2 years ago and sprung small pinholes that ruined my floors
This video neglects another source of copper pipe corrosion - 'aggressive' (acidic) water. Most of southern CT has acidic ground water. If not neutralized, copper pipes get dissolved and sinks, tubs, and toilets turn green as the copper redeposits. Most homes in Southern CT with their own wells have neutralizers (filled/replenished with Calcite) that neutralizes water and stops this corrosion.
If you're getting pinhole leaks in copper pipes, your pH is probably too low. You can add a pH correction tank to your well system or go to a full water softener system. If you're getting pinholes though, the rest of your remaining pipes are time bombs. After doing an exhaustive research, I'm replacing all my copper with Pex A from Uponor. I live in a suburb of Waterbury.
When plumbing a new Unit, could you flush out the cold water lines of flux by temporarily hooking up the Water Heater to them and running everything for a few minutes? I know it'd be a bit strange to run your Garden Hose, Toilet (or Bidet! OUCH!) But it sounds like that might be a good proactive solution to a future problem. Especially if you don't know how much flux your plumber used!
Hot water storage tanks in the UK are either copper (for unpressurised) or stainless steel (for pressurised). I don't think coated steel ones are allowed.
@@98dizzard I've never seen an enamelled one, but I do recall galvanised, and they certainly can rust. These days they have surely almost all been replaced.
@@98dizzard potable ones? As far as I'm aware, domestic drinking water in the UK is almost invariably direct mains and not stored. In that there are potable water tanks available, all the ones I see available seem to be plastic, grp or the equivalent and not enamelled steel.
I installed a Rheem Marathon water heater that doesn't require an anode----since it's all plastic. Easiest tank I've ever moved. But, a little on the pricy side.
I'm 60 yrs old, and got my anode rod out with a 18 pipe wrench....it was part of the hot water outlet.....if it were a hex nut I would have tapped on it (fairly hard) from all sides first to break the corrosive bond (weld) of the 2 metals....that helps a LOT in plumbing...5 yr anode looked about 1/2 gone. replaced it. $40.00
Weird 🤔 I dont think I've ever busted the concrete to fix or end up rerouting overhead a cold water copper line. Its always the hot line. 🤷♂️ I did three this week alone so I'm familiar
So in a 60yro house with original copper pipes when I see signs of pinhole leaks I have to guess they are due to (1) sitting water during construction, and/or excess flux used when originally joints were soldered? Now to decide if 7yro Rheem water heater needs to be replaced. Would be a neat hack if someone could figure out how to determine health of sacrificial rod by using a "dry" voltmeter test.
I think the condo I live in is having similar issues. Our HOA came out with a new document about the water leaks. In our case I think its the pipe hangers used. My neighbors pipe sprung a leak at the hanger. The plumber mentioned he never seen the type of pipe hanger used in a while. Its made of a dissimilar metal causing corrosion. This type of hanger is everywhere here and is probably original.
I don't think there is a perfect plumbing pipe. I had a house on well water that had copper plumbing pipe. One section of the pipe failed and was replaced due to 35 years exposure to 6.5 pH well water. I installed a whole house filter and packed granulated carbonate around the filter each time I changed the filter medium to raise the water pH to slow the corrosion. It has been 10 years and I have not had to replace anymore of the copper pipe. The same house has a well that uses PVC pipe down in the well to deliver the water from the water pump in the bottom of the well. After twenty years of use I had to replace the water pump. The PVC pipe had gotten very brittle and shattered while pulling up the pump. Thank goodness the installer was smart enough to install the pump with a rope tied to it. I was able to use the rope to pull the pump out of the well. On another house I had to replace a 40 year old 1 inch galvanized water supply line pipe because corrosion and mineral build up inside the pipe reduced the inside diameter to about 3/8 inch. The house also used CPVC pipe for the hot water lines. When I had to cut out a leaking water valve, I learned how brittle CPVC gets after 40 years. If I ever build a house I will make a point to keep water lines short and accessible so future replacement will not be a major headache.
I was haunted by another serious problem you never discussed that is also fairly common; "electrolysis". I had to replace all the pipe in my basement because a simple dielectric fitting was not installed between the galvanized supply line to the copper supply line in the house. We were on spring water.
Di-electric isolator slows down that huge problem but doesn't solve it. Get rid of ALL the steel fresh water pipes, on your property. The only place you cannot do that is the inside of the hot water tank, which is glass-lined steel fortified by the sacrificial anode.
Your plumber took you for a ride. a non-dielectric union on your tank won't do much damage at all to your copper water lines, it will however fail much sooner than the dielectric fitting and start leaking. Generally hot water tanks nowadays will last about 10 years so most of the time the cheaper non-dielectric union will still outlast the tank either way even if it is against plumbing code in this case. In the video that hot water tank was rusting for years after that rod was spent and even then they only had to replace a bit of the pipe running on a horozontal.
'The new pipe was installed and at the water line there are rows of pits'. Wouldn't the water pipe be completely full of water with no air, ie. no 'water line'?
I have very hard water, so I'm replacing water heaters every few years. The water is so hard that it cannot be treated - the water softener seems to help by maybe 25%
i was told to clean the ground for the pipes and buy a new clamps to ensure maximum protection. house about 45 years old. certainly can't hurt , i'm thinking
I love my Navien tankless, 1 liter buffer tank, all stainless steel, no anode rod to make my well water smell like rotten eggs, approximate 20 year life expectancy, very efficient, and endless hot water, it was rather expensive but pay now, or pay later.
Replace the Anode? Is that even possible on residential water heaters? Large commercial and industrial sure possibly. Especially in a boiler unit, but there is no access on my unit and I have a GE GeoSpring heat pump type.
It's a simple matter of electrolysis: to prevent the copper from degrading one atom at a time, have a substitute wrap or plate that is more chemically active, such as zinc or aluminum. That's why steel ships have 'wear plates' attached to their hulls, so the zinc dissolves first instead of the steel. Periodically, these plates need to be replaced as a part of routine maintenance.
I wonder how long it takes for the hot water to melt away the sloppy solder ? Might be worth running very Hot water thru your cold pipes for some amount of time to accomplish that melting away process.
The number one reason for water heater early failure is too high temp setting. Keep the temp low enough to not have to add a lot of cold water for hot water use. My heater (in So. CA - very hard water) was made in 1987 and the anode rod was never changed and it still works as good as new.
I had a pinhole link in the copper water pipe entering the house....a pin hole leak developed and dripped down flooding the subfloor....it was only after the water had reached the floor did I realize that I had a leak.. A complete disaster......had to remove everything, and replace the sub floor. The pin hole leak developed where the pipe had been in touch with the concrete foundation....the builder had only put a small piece of tar paper between the pipe and the concrete, which had deteriorated over 40 years. I had no idea that concrete could be corrosive.....lesson learned. Fortunately, insurance covered it all.
High Water Pressure and Minerals in Water can erode inside of Tank fast. I had a customer who had a water heater only 2 1/2 years and it developed a leak. His incoming water pressure was 105 psi. I installed a new Water Heater, Pressure Reducing Valve, and Expansion Tank and referred him to a Water Specialist for Water Treatment.
Example shown of corrosion due to stagnant water in pipes for "several months". Does this mean that baseboard hot water pipes should be cleared after each winter, or does the summer and fall months not constitute "several months"?
I have this very problem with a leak developed on the bottom side of a copper pipe that is used for an outdoor faucet only in the warmer months (April thru November).
Silenthawk98 your right, Copper cost more than Pex. a properly plumbed home will never have leaks from copper pipes. I've been plumbing for over 45 years. the only leaks I've ever repair was because of improperly cannections to galve. steel pipes. a properly plumbed house will not corrode pipes. Pex is much noisier than Copper. plastic water pipes hammers easier. expand & contracts more than copper. You think the plumber gets all that money that copper cost. your wrong once again. we (most) plumbers would rather use copper pipe. The warehouse charges us a lot of money per ft. If we added on the correct profit to copper. we would never get a job that included copper pipe. So most of us just mark it up a little to cover our time àt the supply house. Or the charge to carry a product in our Vans. we don't have to make trips to the hardware store like a handyman or home owner.... ok, I'm done for now!
This was interesting, but I am having a hard time finding the answer to my question: We have copper pipes with corrosion on many of the fittings and valves. Should these fittings be changed, or should the adjacent pipes also be changed? I can not cut the pipe open to take a look, and I imagine the average person can not do that.
It could be that the copper joint was never cleaned after soldering and you will see some green oxide. It can be cleaned with steel wool. That is best case. More likely is your water pH is bad. If you see white oxides at the joints it is likely the brass getting eaten by the water. If you get green film in sink or bath fixtures that is your copper pipes being dissolved by the water. Bad water ph needs to be corrected or it will eat all the pipes, fixtures, and water heater. Tankless water heaters are very susceptible to bad water conditions and might only last a few years. Get your water tested.
I think it’s possible that if there is a stray current from the electrical system running through the copper piping, it will speed up the corrosion process with the iron flakes.
Nice video. I hope they do a video on how cheaply hot waters heaters are made. Just look at the reviews in HomeDepot, they are designed to last about 4-6 years. Even the ones with a 12 year warranty. HomeDepot owns FAST plumbing service and makes over $1 billion a year replacing hot water heaters. GE, Rheem, AO Smith they all are designed to be replaced in 5 years.
the apartment complex i work at was built in 1972... half with type M copper....other half with type L. we get about 2-3 pinhole leaks a month in the M buildings....been here 4 years not one leak in the L buildings. time for a repipe but the owner just wants to keep patching.
Thanks very much! Every Time I watch plumbing info I Understand more of an 'area', even though I've read about it So Many times. i do Not like plumbing - a job that Must be perfect =\
Do they still make water heaters this way? Is it because it's heated with gas? Here in Norway, I have only seen electric units, and they always have a stainless tank within a steel jacket and insulation in between.
my 2016 40 gallon gas water heater is made just like the video shows..ive never seen your type of water heater here in the USA must be a country's standards law or something...but they do cost a lot of money ..... a 40 gallon Natural gas unit new runs about $600 with tax and that's on the low end ...
I think I know what you mean. I hate it when people say "hot water heater". Newsflash people! Its called a " water heater" not a "hot water heater". I'm no English major but I would say that adding the word " hot" to "water heater" implies that the water coming into the thing is already hot which would defeat the purpose of having one to begin with!
lol but i guess if someone was to connect a second water heater to outflow of a primary water heater then you can call the second one a "hot water heater". Of course I'm only joking I mean why the hell would someone do that!?
Eric Branch A large Restaurant would need much hot water for washing dishes etc. An almost continuous flow of correct temperature would require two heaters in series.
in north east Indiana, if you leave an anode rod installed in the country (a well system) your water will smell like rotten eggs. they didn't mention that lovely tid bit of info.
Excellent job guys!! Im a carpenter/plumber /GC. My clients always believe that if a water heater looks good from the outside then the world is perfect. Now I have something to show them. Keep up the good work!
Mr. Persha how long will a water heater last & how often should it be replaced?
Any information would be greatly appreciated
@@nickole4830 I know this is a ways down the road from your question but I usually see 8-12 years average from a modern water heater, gas or electric.
Guys, Thank you for that great informative video. You have just made an old plumber very happy. Truth, I had bits & pieces of that knowledge but you guys put it all together in a very coherent form. Once again, very well done & thanks.
Fully qualified plumber in UK so aware of this problem but good to see the effects of this so making it easier to diagnose thanks
Builder of 50 years. Licensed originally in Boston 1972.
Nearly every perforated pipe I have ever dealt with, was perforated from the outside, not the inside. And the source of that perforation ON THE COLD WATER PIPES has always been from improperly vented fuel burning appliances,,, furnaces, boilers, hot water heaters. Mostly older equipment, mostly oil burners,,, but the common thread has been sulfur dioxide or nitrogen oxides combining with condensate on the exterior of cold water pipes, over a period of years. Yes, an iron flake can eat a hole in a pipe,,,, but that is very likely from the previous water heater,,,, it takes years. And the more common source,,, is the common iron to copper connection that does not have a dielectric union. Some one can come through years later and cut and install new,, or remove all the old iron,,, but it can still leave its pieces behind in the pipes.
Annnnnnd it is ALL dependent upon the average or normal ph of the water. You did mention that,,, usually a city wide or regional characteristic.
thank you sir. experience goes a long way. great info...
If all the old iron pipe is removed, how can it leave it's pieces behind in the new copper pipes?
+doctor shred
because standard iron is a crappy product that rusts and flakes. the flakes land on things and can remain on the threads and inside the copper pipes
The residual piece are lying in unchange pipes?
Copper does not normally "corrode" away and leave perforations, that
green verdigris patina is what PROTECTS the metal from further
corrosion, that is why thin sheet copper roofs on churches, skylights
and flashing on old buildings is still there even after 100 plus years
exposed to the direct weather, I have several machine stamped sheet copper artifacts from demolished buildings that are in mint condition despite exposure for decades and more to polluted NYC air, hot, cold, wind, snow, ice, rain etc.I'm with you, something other than simply corrosion perforates copper pipes in a home- like combustion bi-products.
Just learned this now. I had no idea that flux on the cold line could do such a thing. Have that very issue as pin holes are developing everywhere and all around the copper tubing. Mostly near joints.
Regarding getting the anode rod out, I tried with a socket and breaker bar, and it was no dice. Even used a pretty darn long breaker bar and that sucker wasn't moving and the tank was spinning all around. I was amazed, though, at how quickly a corded Kobalt electric impact gun got it out. I think the key is every year taking it out, checking it, and putting it back in at about 80 foot pounds. One of those "do every year when you change the smoke detector batteries" jobs. Once you get it out and put it back in only at a decent tug, always using teflon tape and cleaning off the threads with an old toothbrush, it's not hard to get it out afterwards.
Anyone else watch this video and go "Yup... I'm screwed"?
10 years, I didn't even know that rod existed, guess I need to call a plumber.
@@Xergecuz The anode rod is easy to replace yourself if that's all you need done... youtube it.
00p
Yep. I’m in an enormous 125 year old house with bad copper pipes and now I’m afraid to look at the water heater too. 😂
It’s not that difficult to change and there are many videos on TH-cam to step you through it. Good luck or just pay someone.
Wow, I had no idea so many things can effect copper piping. I will take it to heart when I get to that stage of my build!
Trethewey is hands down the greatest. Been watching him since the 80's. Iron is less noble than copper so the recirculating iron thru the homeowners HW pipe is NOT the direct reason the copper corroded. It's the iron laying down on the copper pipe and the copper corrosion is from under deposit corrosion. Dissimilar metals in an electrolyte, release of hydrogen ions and a localized pH depression that created the pit.
Has anyone tried to replace an anode rod? The heater manufacturers jam those things in so tight that it's often impossible to remove them. Not only that, but the tanks are invariably round cylinders. I did, eventually, get my anode rod undone on my GE heater. I estimated it was tightened to about 800 ft pounds. It took a 7ft crow bar to get the thing undone - and screwed-on earthquake straps to stop the tank rotating. My air impact driver was not up to the job. The original anode rod was flush with the top outside surface of the tank - when I tightened the new one in, to a more sensible 50ft pounds, it was about 3/8" proud of the top of the tank showing just how stupidly tight the manufacturer installed the original.
One can only assume that the tank manufacturers don't want you to replace the rods - they would rather you replace the whole tank.
I have gotten Anode Rods out with a Breaker Bar and Sockets. I had an Electric Water Heater inside a closet space which only allowed me to use a very short Cheater Bar on the Breaker Bar.
Yes, on my Sears water heater, I didn't have any problem getting the anode out, but corrosion or lyme buildup would make it hard to turn.
good lookin out
Same happened to me, tried replacement or rod and couldn’t budge without twisting heater off the floor. Once it finally shit the bed went with tankless gas heater and never looked back
Do water heaters create big pressure differentials b/c heating and cooling? Wonder if it clinches the bar down over time. 700ftlbs lawdy!
Bought a 1966 track home and wondered about the water heater after I bought it. Found out it was the ORIGINAL water heater. LOL Just like painting and caulking; if you do not take care of your home, problems occur! Needless to say that water heater is long gone.
You had a 50 year old hot water heater ??????????
This is good info to know as our old house has the old galvanized lines in it that will need to be replaced as I know some have rust inside them because I have to clean rust out the aerator on the bathroom sink a number of times per year.
We had well water on one house that we bought for cheap and put in all new mechanical. It was a hot water heat system in the house. Every new water handling component from the well pump, indirect hot water tank tank for domestic water, and the boiler internals were stainless steel. The installer serviced them after the first 5 years and I watched them open everything up. You could still eat off the gleaming white stainless surface inside. Stainless internals are the way to go these days if you can afford the up front cost. They will last dang near forever.
Copper is the most noble of all the metals here. Having had to deal with galvanic corrosion in naval environments, I don’t buy it was the iron-at least alone. I’m betting the water is acidic and it’s a well. The inside of that water heater (NOT a hot water heater) is horrific. The glass lining should stop some of this, but that’s not just an anode failure-some was left.
Funny how we never heard from the “engineer” with the results. I’m a PE and I’d love to see the actual report.
In our water system the anode swells up and cannot be removed to be replaced. I have cut many apart and they all generally have plenty of anode (zinc alloy) but it is porous and swollen. If they made the pipe plug that holds it two or so times larger than the diameter of the anode it would be an easy solution. The manufacturers know this and intentionally design them to last ten to fifteen years maximum and then have to be replaced. This is another engineered problem done to the homeowner. Doug
Douglas Thompson, You wrote: " If they made the pipe plug that holds it two or so times larger than the diameter of the anode it would be an easy solution. The manufacturers know this and intentionally design them to last ten to fifteen years maximum and then have to be replaced. This is another engineered problem done to the homeowner. Doug" Wow, that really is a dirty thing to do. I suppose that I should not be surprised.
I replace my anode after only 7 years. It was TOAST! I used a segmented one. Home depot $39.
Is there any kind of standardization to them or are they all different based on the model? Mine's at the 10 year mark, so I guess it's an English muffin now.
Maybe the deep state is involved, or perhaps the dark web.
FANTASTIC info! Gives me an idea of what got my pipes to leak! Thank you!
THIS is Richard Trethewey's finest hour, and that is saying A LOT.
Thanks for the great video...
I'm so screwed...well guess when my boiler starts having issues, I'll just buy a replacement rather than trying to have it fixed...with the state of my hot water pipes, my boiler must be a lump of rust by now...
Thank you for providing this informative and helpful video. The cutaway water heater shocked me into realizing that I never thought about replacing the original anode in my 9 year old, 12 year rated, water heater. Thanks to my son-in-law, and his impact wrench, we were able to remove the old one. I don't think we could have removed it with just a breaker bar. The original anode still had a fair amount of magnesium still present, although it was quite pitted, as expected.
I stuck an endoscope into the anode opening, and was relieved to see that the interior walls didn't look bad at all. There were some deposits near the top, perhaps calcium, but the walls looked pretty pristine otherwise. Of course, I was seeing a very limited area, but I'm satisfied that I should get a few more years of life out of my old heater.
Where do you get the magnesium bar?
I bought it through Amazon www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003110YN8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I discovered afterward that supplyhouse.com, (from which I have had very good service on a variety of other product purchases), also has a variety of anode rods available.
I had to use an impact gun to remove my anode as well. Mine was making a popping noise due to sediment and found the only way to get the sediment out was to: drain the water, haul it outside, pull the T&P valve, the anode and the drain valve, carefully lay it on it's side and spray the garden hose in the anode hole. I then got two handfuls of white sediment to come out of it and no more popping noises.
I also noticed the probe on my T&P was wobbly and now I see a small puddle from it every once in awhile, so probably I should have replaced that too. I also replaced the crappy plastic drain valve with a brass one.
phiksit Before replacing a T&P valve, check two things. 1 that the expansion tank is present and still has air in it. 2. That the house water pressure is regulated down to 60-70 psi. Either issue will make a good t&p valve leak. I had both.
I LOVE how neatly those pipes are it in half 🤩
I make sure to use a water soluable soldering flux, it washes away and doesn't stay in the pipes. Oil based fluxes are more like vasoline and can stay inside the pipe.
Might be nice if they mentioned the common problem of the 5 ft tall heater with a 4 ft long anode rod, and only a 6-7 ft tall basement ceiling. There are replacement rods available in segmented fashion with a cable holding all the pieces together. IOW, it's flexible so you can change it in low clearance situation.
Since I don't know what I'm doing as a general handyman and puppet head.
I've taken to flushing new work on cold water pipes with a tank full of hot water.
A couple of fittings extra and a temporary hose.
Seems like it's worthwhile.
A common problem in Florida is lightning. I often bust up a concrete slab to find a pipe that looks like it had a arc welder sparked down the side.
Good and hard work! Very believable information!
This video was posted in 2014. It's now 2020 so I'm a little late to the party. This is very interesting information. I've had 2 pin holes on 2 separate occasions in my cold water feed to my second floor vanity. It destroyed the first floor ceiling and wall. I'm in the middle of repairing the second incident so I'm replacing the copper with PEX on as much copper as I can access from the demolition removal.
Is it safe to say that PEX eliminates this problem?
This was really well illustrated.
As always, learned something.
I have well water with iron and sure glad I have pex .But what does this water do to my water heater and other items .I would love a tankless but seen them fail here time after time .I am guessing because of the iron .My fridge line was replaced with copper line 2 years ago and sprung small pinholes that ruined my floors
This video neglects another source of copper pipe corrosion - 'aggressive' (acidic) water. Most of southern CT has acidic ground water. If not neutralized, copper pipes get dissolved and sinks, tubs, and toilets turn green as the copper redeposits.
Most homes in Southern CT with their own wells have neutralizers (filled/replenished with Calcite) that neutralizes water and stops this corrosion.
Contra Videos + If you watch "Ask this old house" they cover that in a different episode. Everyone should test there water in there homes.
Yep Contra; same with me. I'm ripping out all the plumbing of my 1993 Colonial for low pH pinholes. Sucks but hey...
That's great. I live in central Ct and have a well. I wonder what is happening to my pipes ?
If you're getting pinhole leaks in copper pipes, your pH is probably too low. You can add a pH correction tank to your well system or go to a full water softener system. If you're getting pinholes though, the rest of your remaining pipes are time bombs. After doing an exhaustive research, I'm replacing all my copper with Pex A from Uponor. I live in a suburb of Waterbury.
In the Video they briefly talked about Water Chemistry, but nobody else in his neighborhood seemed to have the same corrosion problem as he did.
A lot learned in six minutes! Thanks!
Hot water heater ?
I have a cold water heater.
That's right. No need to heat hot water!
+Farmer Dave
Why would you need a "cold water heater?!" Does your utility deliver ice to your house?
Farmer Dave why do you have a cold water heater
I just have a water heater.
Hot water doesn't need to be heated, cold does.
Forensic experts “ Extraordinary The Old House.” I am impressed.
This show is awesome! Good information guy’s.
When plumbing a new Unit, could you flush out the cold water lines of flux by temporarily hooking up the Water Heater to them and running everything for a few minutes? I know it'd be a bit strange to run your Garden Hose, Toilet (or Bidet! OUCH!) But it sounds like that might be a good proactive solution to a future problem. Especially if you don't know how much flux your plumber used!
Yes, and also use water soluble flux.
Some older fluxes weren't really soluble in water so they would just sit there and cause corrosion.
Running hot water through your toilet and bidet could cause them to crack.
Running hot water to a toilet will cause it to not sweat.
Hot water storage tanks in the UK are either copper (for unpressurised) or stainless steel (for pressurised). I don't think coated steel ones are allowed.
We do however use enamelled steel expansion tanks/vessels for unvented cylinders, when these fail they can dump rust into the system.
@@98dizzard I've never seen an enamelled one, but I do recall galvanised, and they certainly can rust. These days they have surely almost all been replaced.
@@TheEulerID All potable water expansion cylinders I'm aware of are enamelled. I know, I just had to replace one.
@@98dizzard potable ones? As far as I'm aware, domestic drinking water in the UK is almost invariably direct mains and not stored. In that there are potable water tanks available, all the ones I see available seem to be plastic, grp or the equivalent and not enamelled steel.
I installed a Rheem Marathon water heater that doesn't require an anode----since it's all plastic. Easiest tank I've ever moved. But, a little on the pricy side.
I'm 60 yrs old, and got my anode rod out with a 18 pipe wrench....it was part of the hot water outlet.....if it were a hex nut I would have tapped on it (fairly hard) from all sides first to break the corrosive bond (weld) of the 2 metals....that helps a LOT in plumbing...5 yr anode looked about 1/2 gone. replaced it. $40.00
Weird 🤔 I dont think I've ever busted the concrete to fix or end up rerouting overhead a cold water copper line. Its always the hot line. 🤷♂️ I did three this week alone so I'm familiar
So in a 60yro house with original copper pipes when I see signs of pinhole leaks I have to guess they are due to (1) sitting water during construction, and/or excess flux used when originally joints were soldered? Now to decide if 7yro Rheem water heater needs to be replaced. Would be a neat hack if someone could figure out how to determine health of sacrificial rod by using a "dry" voltmeter test.
these videos are always so hard but yet so funny to watch
I think the condo I live in is having similar issues. Our HOA came out with a new document about the water leaks. In our case I think its the pipe hangers used. My neighbors pipe sprung a leak at the hanger. The plumber mentioned he never seen the type of pipe hanger used in a while. Its made of a dissimilar metal causing corrosion. This type of hanger is everywhere here and is probably original.
One of the best arguements for not using copper pipe. WE vever had this problem with galvanized steel threaded pipe.
I don't think there is a perfect plumbing pipe. I had a house on well water that had copper plumbing pipe. One section of the pipe failed and was replaced due to 35 years exposure to 6.5 pH well water. I installed a whole house filter and packed granulated carbonate around the filter each time I changed the filter medium to raise the water pH to slow the corrosion. It has been 10 years and I have not had to replace anymore of the copper pipe. The same house has a well that uses PVC pipe down in the well to deliver the water from the water pump in the bottom of the well. After twenty years of use I had to replace the water pump. The PVC pipe had gotten very brittle and shattered while pulling up the pump. Thank goodness the installer was smart enough to install the pump with a rope tied to it. I was able to use the rope to pull the pump out of the well. On another house I had to replace a 40 year old 1 inch galvanized water supply line pipe because corrosion and mineral build up inside the pipe reduced the inside diameter to about 3/8 inch. The house also used CPVC pipe for the hot water lines. When I had to cut out a leaking water valve, I learned how brittle CPVC gets after 40 years. If I ever build a house I will make a point to keep water lines short and accessible so future replacement will not be a major headache.
Informative to see pipes cut open like that. Well done.
Anyone know which season / episode this is? Or if the start and end of the episode are available? Seems to be cut off, and I'd like to see those.
I was haunted by another serious problem you never discussed that is also fairly common; "electrolysis". I had to replace all the pipe in my basement because a simple dielectric fitting was not installed between the galvanized supply line to the copper supply line in the house. We were on spring water.
good point , i have copper to vertical galv steel pipe, and i always wonders what that green stuff is leaking out with water leaks.
George Schmunk I think brass is dead and makes good dielectric connection ?
Di-electric isolator slows down that huge problem but doesn't solve it. Get rid of ALL the steel fresh water pipes, on your property. The only place you cannot do that is the inside of the hot water tank, which is glass-lined steel fortified by the sacrificial anode.
George Schmunk did your Insurance cove It or did u have to come out of pocket
Your plumber took you for a ride. a non-dielectric union on your tank won't do much damage at all to your copper water lines, it will however fail much sooner than the dielectric fitting and start leaking. Generally hot water tanks nowadays will last about 10 years so most of the time the cheaper non-dielectric union will still outlast the tank either way even if it is against plumbing code in this case. In the video that hot water tank was rusting for years after that rod was spent and even then they only had to replace a bit of the pipe running on a horozontal.
Most informative video I have ever seen about hot water tanks!!!! Thank you so much!!
Love watching sales men try to explain physics!! It is absolutely hilarious!
This actually opened my eyes
Ugh, 4:3 aspect ratio forced into 16:9
That's illegal!
Yeah, ouch it makes everything seem like they are Munchkins and in Munchkinland.
'The new pipe was installed and at the water line there are rows of pits'. Wouldn't the water pipe be completely full of water with no air, ie. no 'water line'?
I have very hard water, so I'm replacing water heaters every few years. The water is so hard that it cannot be treated - the water softener seems to help by maybe 25%
You have to regenerate the water more often and go through the salt more.
Very interesting indeed....Will replace the anode rod tomorrow...
i was told to clean the ground for the pipes and buy a new clamps to ensure maximum protection. house about 45 years old. certainly can't hurt , i'm thinking
"A lesson is learned, but the damage is irreversible"
I love my Navien tankless, 1 liter buffer tank, all stainless steel, no anode rod to make my well water smell like rotten eggs, approximate 20 year life expectancy, very efficient, and endless hot water, it was rather expensive but pay now, or pay later.
and pay constantly to descale that tankless system,
There is a process of coating existing piping. The problem is it costs a lot. Some say as much as the plumbing's original cost.
This is an outstanding video. Thank you very much.
Replace the Anode? Is that even possible on residential water heaters? Large commercial and industrial sure possibly. Especially in a boiler unit, but there is no access on my unit and I have a GE GeoSpring heat pump type.
Just had this same problem fixed the other day... Amazing
It's a simple matter of electrolysis: to prevent the copper from degrading one atom at a time, have a substitute wrap or plate that is more chemically active, such as zinc or aluminum. That's why steel ships have 'wear plates' attached to their hulls, so the zinc dissolves first instead of the steel. Periodically, these plates need to be replaced as a part of routine maintenance.
What about using ductile water lines inside the home? Rich didn't mention that as an option.
That was good information about copper pipe corrosion due to water heater.
I wonder how long it takes for the hot water to melt away the sloppy solder ?
Might be worth running very Hot water thru your cold pipes for some amount of time to accomplish that melting away process.
The number one reason for water heater early failure is too high temp setting. Keep the temp low enough to not have to add a lot of cold water for hot water use.
My heater (in So. CA - very hard water) was made in 1987 and the anode rod was never changed and it still works as good as new.
Wow, I hope mine is still good. It's older than......well it's old.
I had a pinhole link in the copper water pipe entering the house....a pin hole leak developed and dripped down flooding the subfloor....it was only after the water had reached the floor did I realize that I had a leak.. A complete disaster......had to remove everything, and replace the sub floor. The pin hole leak developed where the pipe had been in touch with the concrete foundation....the builder had only put a small piece of tar paper between the pipe and the concrete, which had deteriorated over 40 years. I had no idea that concrete could be corrosive.....lesson learned. Fortunately, insurance covered it all.
How did the water get past the glass liner on the tank to cause it to rust?
the enamel is not perfect and the constant temperature swings cracks the surface
Thermal expension cracks the thin "glass" coating.
High Water Pressure and Minerals in Water can erode inside of Tank fast. I had a customer who had a water heater only 2 1/2 years and it developed a leak. His incoming water pressure was 105 psi. I installed a new Water Heater, Pressure Reducing Valve, and Expansion Tank and referred him to a Water Specialist for Water Treatment.
105 psi! that's crazy high!
It flowed.
Wow something i never knew, thnks guys. Could this cause pipes to burst at the sauder points also?
Example shown of corrosion due to stagnant water in pipes for "several months". Does this mean that baseboard hot water pipes should be cleared after each winter, or does the summer and fall months not constitute "several months"?
I have this very problem with a leak developed on the bottom side of a copper pipe that is used for an outdoor faucet only in the warmer months (April thru November).
I suppose you could temporarily hook up the cold line to the hot water and run the water to clear put flux?
Copper is antimicrobial, that's why it's preferred over PEX, or any other water supply lines.
James Pian pec also can't take chlorine
Silenthawk98
your right, Copper cost more than Pex. a properly plumbed home will never have leaks from copper pipes. I've been plumbing for over 45 years. the only leaks I've ever repair was because of improperly cannections to galve. steel pipes. a properly plumbed house will not corrode pipes.
Pex is much noisier than Copper. plastic water pipes hammers easier. expand & contracts more than copper. You think the plumber gets all that money that copper cost. your wrong once again. we (most) plumbers would rather use copper pipe. The warehouse charges us a lot of money per ft. If we added on the correct profit to copper. we would never get a job that included copper pipe. So most of us just mark it up a little to cover our time àt the supply house. Or the charge to carry a product in our Vans. we don't have to make trips to the hardware store like a handyman or home owner....
ok, I'm done for now!
Best part about plumbing is figuring who the hair comes from.
James Pian can copper piping be braised with dynaflow like in Commercial refrigeration?
Ron White
Yes. www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/techcorner/soldering_brazing_explained.html
This was interesting, but I am having a hard time finding the answer to my question: We have copper pipes with corrosion on many of the fittings and valves. Should these fittings be changed, or should the adjacent pipes also be changed? I can not cut the pipe open to take a look, and I imagine the average person can not do that.
I wouldn't worry about it until it's a problem -its takes years like he said -- then at that point I'd go with PEX --
It could be that the copper joint was never cleaned after soldering and you will see some green oxide. It can be cleaned with steel wool. That is best case.
More likely is your water pH is bad. If you see white oxides at the joints it is likely the brass getting eaten by the water. If you get green film in sink or bath fixtures that is your copper pipes being dissolved by the water. Bad water ph needs to be corrected or it will eat all the pipes, fixtures, and water heater. Tankless water heaters are very susceptible to bad water conditions and might only last a few years. Get your water tested.
With corrosion visible as blue stuff on the outside of the pipe, how long before it ruptures?
Wow ! I'm in this right now grrr. Thank you, Maurice :)
This was very informative thank you guys !!
I think it’s possible that if there is a stray current from the electrical system running through the copper piping, it will speed up the corrosion process with the iron flakes.
Do tankless water heaters have the same issue regarding corrosion? And PEX is looking better to me now...
What is the fix?
Did they replace all the copper pipes in the house?
Its called reactivity of Different materials if I am right the iron will react with copper and that's why copper ends up a small hole
Nice video. I hope they do a video on how cheaply hot waters heaters are made. Just look at the reviews in HomeDepot, they are designed to last about 4-6 years. Even the ones with a 12 year warranty. HomeDepot owns FAST plumbing service and makes over $1 billion a year replacing hot water heaters. GE, Rheem, AO Smith they all are designed to be replaced in 5 years.
Only came to read comments saying Richard is spouting nonsense and has no idea what he's talking about, yet the poster knows more.
So what do you do if the water heater anode rod has not been changed in 10 years? Have your water tested? Then what??? What's the end fix?
How’d they halve those tubes?
the apartment complex i work at was built in 1972... half with type M copper....other half with type L. we get about 2-3 pinhole leaks a month in the M buildings....been here 4 years not one leak in the L buildings. time for a repipe but the owner just wants to keep patching.
it sucks when the building isn't engineered for utilities maintenance. most homes are that way. we build homes with ridiculous practices.
You forgot to mention what should I look after in the water quality test. What chemical causing this pinholes?
there are guys putting on flux like its glue...the brush has enough flux on it when you wite it off with a rag..such a light coat
Does it make sense to put a particulate filter on the output of a water heater?
great video thanks..please make more
Very good segment guys!!
Thanks very much!
Every Time I watch plumbing info I Understand more of an 'area', even though I've read about it So Many times. i do Not like plumbing - a job that Must be perfect =\
is he correct about the anode being magnesium?......i was thinking it is zinc ...like the fish boats use for anodes
I like this show especially The Plumber
What about corrosive water that's softened by a water softener???
we had a water heater installed in 1996 and never chnaged rods...then this year water heater leaked everywhere, then we got a new water heater.
Do they still make water heaters this way?
Is it because it's heated with gas?
Here in Norway, I have only seen electric units, and they always have a stainless tank within a steel jacket and insulation in between.
my 2016 40 gallon gas water heater is made just like the video shows..ive never seen your type of water heater here in the USA must be a country's standards law or something...but they do cost a lot of money ..... a 40 gallon Natural gas unit new runs about $600 with tax and that's on the low end ...
I would love to work with those guys. Great Video
Where can I buy a "hot water heater" as mentioned in this vid @ 3:52?....
I think I know what you mean. I hate it when people say "hot water heater". Newsflash people! Its called a " water heater" not a "hot water heater". I'm no English major but I would say that adding the word " hot" to "water heater" implies that the water coming into the thing is already hot which would defeat the purpose of having one to begin with!
lol but i guess if someone was to connect a second water heater to outflow of a primary water heater then you can call the second one a "hot water heater". Of course I'm only joking I mean why the hell would someone do that!?
Eric Branch A large Restaurant would need much hot water for washing dishes etc. An almost continuous flow of correct temperature would require two heaters in series.
in north east Indiana, if you leave an anode rod installed in the country (a well system) your water will smell like rotten eggs. they didn't mention that lovely tid bit of info.