Several comments. The 2024 PHB has 2 ISBN numbers, one for each cover. About 3000 copies were sold a month earlier at GenCon. FLGS sales began on September 3. So the “first week sales” is which week? Can you find the info for week of Sept 3 for both versions?
I don't believe Bookscan includes numbers from FLGS. I also would doubt it includes numbers sold directly from WotC, though that one I'm not 100% on, I believe the information it has is technically "self" reported by the bookstores. (Obviously with technology that is easy to do). So the data doesn't include the limited edition cover, which I know my local bookstore only got the limited edition cover as that is what everyone wanted. There are limitations to Stephan's data. Within 1.5 hours of myself, if Walmart doesn't have it, FLGS is the only option. WIth that said, I think comparing the numbers is still accurate because the 2014 data doesn't include FLGS either. The real question is how honest is WotC being. Because If they are including digital copies, I actually purchased 2 copies of the product from WotC. Realistically, the numbers for WotC may need to be cut in half, because they are likely including the digital copy I pre-ordered, along with the physical copy I pre-ordered as part of the bundle. So they sold two copies, but it was to the same person as part of a bundle deal. Maybe they accounted for that and the numbers aren't inflated. Or more likely, because D&D Beyond treats the bundle as separate products, they are double counting books sold when they should count the bundle as 1.
I preordered the limited edition version and picked it up from my local hobby shop (Funtainment - Munich, Germany). I believe they had more copies. America’s not the only market.
I wonder if WoTC included digital sales from D&D Beyond for Tasha's Cauldron, which WoTC didn't own at the time it was published. D&D Beyond certainly helped make Tasha's more published than books published prior to August 15, 2017, (i.e., 2014 Player's Handbook) when D&D Beyond was launched.
My local store has sold all 50 of their alternate art copies plus at least 20 of the regular cover art copies. I live in a city of only 150,000 and thats just one store out of several. I think your numbers might be wrong. Reception has been pretty positive around here.
@@devcrom3 Could be. Track record of bookscan... not so good. Not to mention they only track US sales, and usually they capture about 50-60% of the sales. They get nowhere near the full sell numbers.
@@devcrom3 while this is just an anecdote, it should be stated that independent stores aren't fully documented in bookscan's data. Stephen posted up top in his pinned comment replies that only 800 independent stores are included, but also all major retailers. So a ton of local purchases aren't being counted. But also, the book just came out :p I'm sure it's just a slow start rather than "THE DOWNFALL OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!!" folks might try to spin this as.
Same here. Pre-ordered the alt. cover early from my local game store. Incidentally they sold it cheaper than any online store also. Now I live in Sweden, but every other major game store (online or physical) here had the alt. cover sold out in august. So the alt. cover at least is seemingly selling well wherever it's available.
The Amazon listing is baffling - if I hadn't watched this video, I would have thought Zon didn't have the new PHB. It also only has 67 reviews - a low number compared to what I'd expect.
I think the reporting of sales is very inaccurate however they are including everyone who has a master level subscription to D&D beyond who is basically got on a copy of the players handbook digitally and a hardcopy sent to them. These have been counted as two copies but in fact they've only sold one because digital editions of books cost nothing. (slightly fraudulent reporting practice in my opinion) My game shop ordered 40 special edition copies and only received 10 of which 9 are still in store all my players in my hobby shop have abandoned of the new edition of Dungeons and Dragons and are still continuing to play the 2014 version none of them are planning to buy the new book I have a copy off the new book that any member of the gaming club attached to my game store can read for free and all the players and DMs at my store are unhappy with the rule changes. Especially with some specific things which have clearly been written by someone who has never played a game of D&D in their life they have killed their franchise for the second time probably worse than the 4th edition fiasco and I don't think they will recover again but to be quite frank I no longer give a shit my game shop no longer buy anything to do with hasbro or wizards of the coast I now only stock independent games which are selling like hotcakes ❤😊
In case people are curious, these numbers come from Bookscan. Anyone with access to Bookscan can confirm these numbers, which are sales from 9/15/24 to 9/21/24.
@@matthewblanchard9805 "BookScan is the gold-standard data service that tracks actual weekly retail sales of trade print books in the US. The service utilizes direct reporting from most major chain retailers and over 800 independent bookstores, covering approximately 85 percent of the country’s trade print sales."
@@matthewblanchard9805 I don't think Bookscan has access to FLGS. Most FLGS are small and aren't likely going to be reporting their data to a company. There are probably some FLGs that don't even know how many books they sold themselves.
Out of curiosity I wondered what today's PHB sales rank at Amazon. Surprised no Product Details block was listed showing "Best Sellers Rank" of "#300 in books" or "#1,456,789 in Fantasy" depending on keywords and category sales. That fact is included on driveway salt and windshield wipers, but none for PHB. Curious. (If anyone is interested in top sellers, expend the upper left Amazon page options to see "top seller lists" by category and drill down).
Ah yes that is clearly reliable, "hextech blood colored metal dice" are clearly outselling the new edition of the most popular roleplaying game, as well as every single SKU of mork borg and its supplement
I know of one distributor in the US that sold 19k copies of the Alt Cover alone. Remember there are two covers that they can count as being the PHB2024. I think it’s possible they sold more than 133k if you count both and the digital sales. However, if that is the case, Hasbro needs to rethink their sales process - supporting Amazon under their own LLC’s and big box stores over FLGS who obviously are selling the vast majority of the product.
Remember FLGS had the books 2 weeks early. And DnDBeyond preorders gave you DnDBeyond access 2 weeks early. So, it makes sense that Big Box sales are low the first week. Everyone bought their books 2 weeks prior. Plus... there were a bunch of GenCon sales.
He's also just a liar, it doesn't show on B&N's site as "D&D" so he assumed they didn't have it, had he visited in person he'd have seen they have it, all but two stores in NYC have it and the two that don't are sold out
Hi, Denmark here. Most of TTRPG stores sold the new books (both normal and alt cover) so fast, that they are not available any more. And this is THE board-game (including TTRPG) country. Another thing is that Profesor DM, who at this point tries to divide our community more and more. You CAN'T EXCLUDE D&D Beyond sales of the books. It is like the book publishers not counting ePUBs, which currently represent most of the publishing sales. I am glad that you made this video that is more down to earth than the ... that was uploaded to Dungeon Craft...
A single smallish Polish online game store that I bought my copy from had an allotment of 30 copies that sold out in about a week. In Poland. The English version of the book. In a store that’s probably not even in the top 10 largest or most popular online game stores in the country. This is just clickbait for people who have nothing better to do than daydream about a billion dollar corporation failing, as if that would somehow consitute their own personal success.
You can’t buy the D&D 2024 Player's Handbook in New Zealand. It's not sold out, it's not listed in stores or online stores in NZ for preorder. I have a friend that got the physical book in New Zealand by purchasing from D&D Beyond for a stupid amount of Kiwi dollars.
even at 300% 2014's printing numbers WOTC is having to prioritize their direct sales because they're running out of physical copies AKA "They only sold 3000 copies"
B&N here in Valparaiso Indiana got 10 books in on 16th they have sold 7 and have 3 left on the shelf, I got my alternate cover at local comic book shop on the 4th, hope the info helps and Hello from BFE Indiana!!!
According to a friend who works at target, they aren’t even getting copies in (their) store until next year. So that could also be why people can’t find books in large retailers.
So if they are counting the physical&digital bundle as two copies, that number gets easier to reach. An extra $10 for digital makes sense to buy. But because storefronts couldn't offer the combo, I'd guess sales were heavily biased to direct online orders for the physical books also. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that they didn't offer an off-the-shelf combo because it would have been unavoidably a single SKU that way.
Well, not sure about NY, but we sold our whole stock of 190 books just through pre-orders. And this is just a relatively small city in Poland with fierce competition. That being said, WotC brags about fastest selling product but what they account all the pre-order purchases made at least half a year before release. They count all the sales from stores + digital tools like Roll20 or D&D Beyond as a day one sale. It's obvious it is going to sell faster than anything before, regardless of the quality. It's not an indie company, it's a marketing giant.
I saw two at either B&N or Books a Million in an old mall Myrtle Beach about 2 weeks ago (around the 13th). The gamestore in there didn't have it though (to be fair, it seemed the focused more on collectible old school video games and anime). We scoped out another FLGS in the area and they had a couple of copies of the regular version. I picked one up.
As for hobby stores, I know my entire group of 5 player's and myself all purchased from our local hobby store. I found it $15 cheaper online after I had it, but my group all decided to support the local store instead. Also I pre-ordered mine from WOTC, so wondering if the digital & physical bundle counts as 2 then?
And 5 of those 2014 phb from past years were mine at under $20. Cool fact you can’t have both PHB in the same wish list on Amazon. 2024 is not moving in our local FLGS. I also have the FLGS hardcopy. I think someone said 17th printing for 2014 Spot check Target does not have the book online or I used the wrong filter Walmart has the 2014 listed for 26.10 And Alt cover 2024 for 59.95 and the AD&D for 65.82 but it is listed as outstock.
When it comes to the box stores, that does not surprise me. Since the beginning of the year, about the time WOTC was getting all the bad press, I have noticed in my area Walmart no longer carrying those D&D books. Target minimized how many D&D books they hold. Last I went to Target they did not have any. And Barnes and Noble really has not restocked much of anything when it comes to their RPG section.
I do wonder if WotC is including preorders and Convention sales in its "first week" figures. If so, I could easily see them having hit some pretty huge numbers in the first week, because I know a lot of people preordered the book, and it moved pretty well at Cons from what I understand too. FLGS definitely have been a huge driver for the book as well. At one of the largest FLGS in my large city, I saw rows of the book on the preorder shelf awaiting pickup just days after it was released. Rows would equate to at least three or four dozen copies. I don't think WotC did a broad release at actual book stores. I think most of the hard copies were moved through FLGS.
I've switched over to Pathfinder 2e full time since the OGL debacle, but my kids are still running 5e for their friends. They're sticking with the 2014 rules until all three core books come out. They've shown interest in possible switching to the new rules, but they're only looking at getting the books electronically, and that's the demographic that I think WotC really cares about, IMO. They don't care about us old guys that love books. My oldest will probably eventually buy the physical book, but only after all three books come out.
Also if they count every copy then bundles are 2 copies and one goes right to the house. ( and presale with attendant FoMO can be a thing too) Though I think maybe the numbers may be (?) bit accurate for some reason.
he's literally lying in this video B&H in new york has the PHB, if you search for D&D you wont find it on their site, you have to search for Player's handbook, if he'd actually gone in person instead of lied about it, they not only have them, several of them have sold out despite stocking hundreds per location
I bought my physical copy at a small hobby store in my hometown. I bought it out of curiosity and a desire to support the small hobby shop. They are good people. EDIT: i forgot to mention that they only got in 2 copies. one of the original 2024 and one of the special edition 2024.
Do the first week numbers include preorders? Or only sales after release date? That could make a difference. I'd also be interested to know the direct sales from WotC website as they were pushing their physical and digital bundle hard. Still seems like a small number of actual sales.
What is puzzling to me is Amazon not shipping preorders in some countries. I'm in Brazil and they didn't even ship my book yet (which isn't tagged as international). I heard some people in Australia complaining on Reddit. If some LGSs are stuck with it, it feels like something went wrong from the logistics standpoint. I ordered in June, it still didn't ship and it shows as sold out on Amazon Brazil.
Wizards dropped their book printer-publisher earlier this year. Its why they had to stagger the releases all the way into January because the new publisher couldnt do a full release of all 3 books. Its highly likely the new printer/publisher isnt reporting all the numbers from every source. No matter your opinion of Wizards, its physically impossible to have that low of a sales when they are shipping to 3rd party resales all over the world. My single book store in maryland has at least 300 copies alone.
I work for a distributor, I assure you. Your numbers are not accurate. Not by a long shot, we have had 3 restocks already to keep up with demand, and just had another today.
@@ZaxPBG because they are pushing digital. They don’t want people buying physical books. They want people buying on Beyond. Sadly most people will buy on Beyond.
@@craigjones7343 I am not sure I can legally say the actual numbers. I can only speak to my experience, but our first and second waves were more stock than the final sales numbers here by a significant margin, and we are one of the smaller warehouses out of 20 for a single distributor who all had more than we did, and are already sold out.
Or maybe they arent distributing through their major retail stores as tgey arnt using a distributor so the vast majorities of their copies wouldn't be delivered to stores in your data set. Not to mention the huge online draw of the character creator unlocks online
I got access to the 2024 Handbook through the master tier subsciption at DnD Beyond, or whatever it's called. Do you think they're counting that as "sales"?
Most of their sales this time isn't physical, but digital copies of the book. At my game store they kept selling out. But on my end, I could buy the book through fantasy grounds unity. They ended a lot of old contacts with their old friends in the name of prophet. If they wanted to make a new book, then hire the publishers, then distribute their physical books to sellers, most of the profit that they make gets eaten up. It doesn't surprise me that this time they made far less copies of physical, and mostly went digital this time. I own a whole collection of rule books that will never take up space on my shelf.
Well, WoTC's/Hasbro's plan seems to be getting people to pay for it on line via a subscription service. Trying to move most players onto their own game playing server system. So they have little worry about how many they push through game stores.
Waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiit...WotC said its the fastest selling, but the numbers suck? Im shocked. I noticed they "printed" 3x, as you just said (writing while I listen). Edit: I bought my copy of the 2014 PHB at the very end of 2018 and it is still the first printing.
My local big box store 2nd & Charles, which is an offshoot of Books a Million has plenty of copies. I picked up my alternate art copy at my local gaming store though.
I bought the physical & digital bundle on dnd beyond. I wonder if WotC is counting my digital and physical purchases as separate sales. So my single purchases gets counted as two sales, as far as this announcement goes. At my table, 3 of us bought the bundle, so WotC could count that as six separate purchases rather than 3. That would likely go a long way into inflating the numbers.
So as an international reference on Amazon France, the Players Handbook Hard Cover (2024) has sold 300+ in past month or since release I guess. Although it is in English this is also a remarkably low number.
I am 90% my FLGS doesn't plan on stocking it. I only bought the 2024 PHB because I got $40 in Amazon credit as thank you gifts from donationing blood. I wouldn't be surprised if those sales numbers (from WotC) are cooked a bit.
I think aside from the digital copy, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of advertising that a new player's handbook was released. Maybe it's just my feed, but it seemed like every channel was showing off Tasha's, and I haven't seen a whole lot of reviews of the PHB. The timing is strange too, why release it at the end of summer? Maybe they're hoping to capitalize on more school-aged kids being together to spread by word of mouth?
Seems like WotC is changing it's business model to a more online oriented, with the release of their own VTT and partnerships with all other majors VTTs. Digital books are much easier to keep, update and integrate. Since 2016 i just buy physical books that I want to add to my collection (that's why i bought the new PHB with the alt cover), but i own all 5E books on DnD Beyond because even when I'm not playing online, I still use them. Our hobby is changing and WotC seems to be very aware of that. Hasbro is a big greedy company, and they're betting that our tables are more digital than ever, and I think they're betting right.
I saw 2 copies at my local Indigo in Toronto and they had reams of 5e books still available that have been so for 2 years. Like literally the same books. I can say I don't think they had much 2024 6e sorry 6E! books that sold so fast the shelves were stocked..Just ...2 copies of the new PBH. I even asked the staff if this is all they had and they said yes, we don't have any more copies and we only had a few to begin with.
I was pretty sure most of the new sales would be in the digital realm rather than the books. With the price increase in the books (The trio of books would be near $250 in my currency) and how tentative a fair few people are about anything WoTC produces, the 'try out' version on D&D Beyond would be less of a hit to the wallet if it turned out your group didn't like it. Plus a lot of the newer generation uses iPads and tablets at the table (or laptops, but even those are becoming 'old tech'). My friend's son uses digital exclusively as well with the exception of dice. I'm actually kind of more surprised at how well Tasha's sold. It was the book that broke my group and made us quit 5e entirely. I think I bought a couple of books after.. Maybe up to the Dragon book.. Or maybe Van Richten's, but by that point there was a weird trend to offer very lazy design (making dread lords just use lich statblocks) and little utility for DM's and just throw all sorts of things at players who were already nearly impossible to challenge without breaking rules on monster design. I guess I always thought Xanathar's was the biggest seller. I was very wrong!
But is it? How many of the sells are the bundle where people got the physical book and the digital book? It would be interesting to know the actual digital only numbers compared to the digital + book numbers. Especially when the digital book was only $10 if you got the bundle, and most people are going to toss in the extra $10 to get the D&D BEyond version if they pre-ordered from WotC.
Well, I don't plan to change my running D&D campaign to the 2024 rules, and I guess this campaign has potential for 2 or 3 more years. I might pick up the book in 2027.
I just flat out refuse to buy any D&D books because of their recent business practices, reliance and push toward AI, and their literal war on their creators.. Happy to have moved to Pathfinder.
Works if you can stomach the focus on mechanics. We no longer have version wars because the gearheads found a home in Pathfinder and migrated en masse, huge numbers, thank GOD. That said, my table is getting tired of 5e's super-heroic characters and a few of us are yearning for the grit and texture of old school. Not to mention the imaginative freedom of light rules. We'll abandon 5e for some such OSR game before buying another edition of the same over-powered nonsense modern sensibility D&D from those tone-deaf corporate dufuses. D&D died long ago, when TSR ran Gygax out of the company he built with his astonishing, inventive imagination. It's been a pretty ugly story every since. Do we need a new edition, or does Hasbro? Rhetorical.
I migrated my group to Level Up, Blades in the Dark, Paranoia and Manifold. I have been a die-hard D&D Dm since 1990. I suffered through the worst of TSR and the bloat of 3e. For WotC to have pushed me to abandon official D&D.....well, it shows just how upset with their business practises and the state of the game I am. I WILL NOT buy into the 2024 edition. I won't reward a business that treats is staff and player base like this and I sure as hell wont incentivise a company to follow video-game industry type monetisation and pre-order culture.
So I sell books on amazon, and looking at that... PHB 2024 isn't selling so well. Some nitty gritty here - when a new book is released it initially isn't given a sales ranking at all, until a few days have gone by and it starts to sell. (Yes, it is possible to never have a sales ranking, if the book doesn't sell at all or barely at all.) Right now on amazon the 2014 version is ranked ~1,500 for books, and number 3 in the D&D category. (DMG is 1 at 1,150, and MM 2 at 1450.) That sounds like they aren't selling well, but remember, that's 1,500 out of all the millions of book on amazon. That's 65 copies a day for the DMG, roughly, and 50 for the PHB. Amazon is the single biggest chunk of the book sale market. If the PHB 2024 had sold 130,000 books over the last nine days, and 1/6th of that total was through Amazon, it would be the best selling book on amazon right now. Instead it isn't even ranked yet. Now, it does have 67 ratings and reviews so far, and a *very rough* rule of thumb for reviews is that 1% of people who buy a book review it, so it isn't selling nothing either, and that 1% goes up a lot if there are very strong feelings involved.
I'm sure there are a lot of copies being sold at hobby stores and such, but the 130,000 to 3,000 is still a useful number - because the Tasha's numbers wouldn't include hobby store copies either.
Didnt WotC dump their book distribution contracts to handle it themselves, so are they counting wholesale sales to game stores that still have them in inventory as opening sales?
There were a couple dozen st my local game store. I haven't looked at my local booksamillion or barnes&noble. I'll check my local walmarts and Targets too.
When I picked my D&D 2024 PHB at my FLGS, the guy running the shop said he was surprised that WOTC sent them so many copies, particularly of the special edition version. He said it sold very well the first day. I haven't seen any copies in any retail store since. This is all very peculiar.
I have an online game store based in Denmark, and my providers already have the book out of stock. I was lucky to receive the first batch of them, but want to order more and I can´t :-(
Since this isn't a "new" edition, lower sales don't surprise me. AD&D 2nd edition wasn't very different from AD&D so a lot of people didn't convert right away. Maybe this is the same sort of circumstance contributing to the sales of the physical copies at least. It wouldn't surprise me at all that the digital copies are being counted in the total. I also believe Hasbro would be double dipping, claiming people that bought PDF, Beyond, and Physical copies as three sales instead of one sale.
If only hasbro would just honestly report sales numbers. You'd think if it was a number worth bragging about that they would actually be more forthcoming with it
My local game store in London is selling the new PHB like the clappers - they are shifting fast here. This is London, UK. Population 10 million. Either WotC sold what they said they have or your data is not capturing all the data. What about Amazon data?
It doesn't include anything private, like WoTC direct sales. "BookScan is the gold-standard data service that tracks actual weekly retail sales of trade print books in the US. The service utilizes direct reporting from most major chain retailers and over 800 independent bookstores, covering approximately 85 percent of the country’s trade print sales."
@@RollForCombat I suspect the WoTC direct sales are actually massive seeing as that is where literally everyone I know got theirs (our nearest lgs is an hour away)
First, why wouldn’t they include digital sales? It’s still the same book. Secondly, does Bookscan include the WotC direct to consumer sales? I’d be surprised if it did. And WotC has already stated they are trying to cut out the middle-man.
All I know is they only shipped 1000 exclusive covers to APAC region. Which has 32 million people. And late, and regular late. Which tells me they don't give a Fa about doing physical properly.
What about the pre-order sales? They were pushing very hard for early adopters to buy D&D 2024 PHB prior to actual release. Are they counted in your figures?
There were copies available in Indigo books in the Eaton Centre in Toronto. (I didn’t buy one. I have Tales of the Valiant which is just as good but not corporate!)
@@jameslemaux1572 what, no, all I am saying is they had 3000 copies at Gencon. Steven was at Gencon Steven had like 8000 copies The Brick and morter stores were selling them a week before street date and now the sales are below expectation?
Remember, they are trying to funnel people into their online ecosystem so they can control and abuse the customer in ways that only DDBeyond can, and cheap out on printing. They are going to include digital sales and likely include Physical and Digital bundles as 2 separate sales.
I called it! Do you remember when we were sitting in the stadium at GenCon and I told you and Derik I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s sold poorly? Derik told me I was crazy and it would sell just fine?
My game store sold 140 copies and I have 40 left. There are 3,000+ game stores. None of them are counted in this.
@garyray my lgs sold out the first day. When I walked in about mid day they had 4 left and I bought 3 of them for my gaming group.
Several comments. The 2024 PHB has 2 ISBN numbers, one for each cover. About 3000 copies were sold a month earlier at GenCon. FLGS sales began on September 3. So the “first week sales” is which week? Can you find the info for week of Sept 3 for both versions?
I don't believe Bookscan includes numbers from FLGS. I also would doubt it includes numbers sold directly from WotC, though that one I'm not 100% on, I believe the information it has is technically "self" reported by the bookstores. (Obviously with technology that is easy to do).
So the data doesn't include the limited edition cover, which I know my local bookstore only got the limited edition cover as that is what everyone wanted. There are limitations to Stephan's data. Within 1.5 hours of myself, if Walmart doesn't have it, FLGS is the only option. WIth that said, I think comparing the numbers is still accurate because the 2014 data doesn't include FLGS either.
The real question is how honest is WotC being. Because If they are including digital copies, I actually purchased 2 copies of the product from WotC. Realistically, the numbers for WotC may need to be cut in half, because they are likely including the digital copy I pre-ordered, along with the physical copy I pre-ordered as part of the bundle. So they sold two copies, but it was to the same person as part of a bundle deal.
Maybe they accounted for that and the numbers aren't inflated. Or more likely, because D&D Beyond treats the bundle as separate products, they are double counting books sold when they should count the bundle as 1.
@bradleyhurley6755 one person buying 2 copies of a thing is still 2 sales
I preordered the limited edition version and picked it up from my local hobby shop (Funtainment - Munich, Germany). I believe they had more copies. America’s not the only market.
From what I've read, the 2014 PHB had seventeen printings
I wonder if WoTC included digital sales from D&D Beyond for Tasha's Cauldron, which WoTC didn't own at the time it was published. D&D Beyond certainly helped make Tasha's more published than books published prior to August 15, 2017, (i.e., 2014 Player's Handbook) when D&D Beyond was launched.
My local store has sold all 50 of their alternate art copies plus at least 20 of the regular cover art copies. I live in a city of only 150,000 and thats just one store out of several. I think your numbers might be wrong. Reception has been pretty positive around here.
So your tiny sample size is more accurate than Bookscan?
@@devcrom3 Could be. Track record of bookscan... not so good. Not to mention they only track US sales, and usually they capture about 50-60% of the sales. They get nowhere near the full sell numbers.
@@devcrom3 Also, could be that WOTC delivered to local stores more books than to big book stores..
@@devcrom3 while this is just an anecdote, it should be stated that independent stores aren't fully documented in bookscan's data. Stephen posted up top in his pinned comment replies that only 800 independent stores are included, but also all major retailers. So a ton of local purchases aren't being counted.
But also, the book just came out :p I'm sure it's just a slow start rather than "THE DOWNFALL OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!!" folks might try to spin this as.
@@devcrom3 definitely seems like it. Local store where I live told me they sold out (40-ish copies) in the first weekend
I bought the special edition from my local game store. Had to pre order it or I wouldn’t have been able to get a copy. Sold out. Still sold out.
Same here. Pre-ordered the alt. cover early from my local game store. Incidentally they sold it cheaper than any online store also. Now I live in Sweden, but every other major game store (online or physical) here had the alt. cover sold out in august. So the alt. cover at least is seemingly selling well wherever it's available.
Something is weird with this numbers... I don't believe this.
I just ordered mine from Amazon? So did everyone else I know.
The Amazon listing is baffling - if I hadn't watched this video, I would have thought Zon didn't have the new PHB. It also only has 67 reviews - a low number compared to what I'd expect.
I think the reporting of sales is very inaccurate however they are including everyone who has a master level subscription to D&D beyond who is basically got on a copy of the players handbook digitally and a hardcopy sent to them.
These have been counted as two copies but in fact they've only sold one because digital editions of books cost nothing.
(slightly fraudulent reporting practice in my opinion)
My game shop ordered 40 special edition copies and only received 10 of which 9 are still in store all my players in my hobby shop have abandoned of the new edition of Dungeons and Dragons and are still continuing to play the 2014 version none of them are planning to buy the new book I have a copy off the new book that any member of the gaming club attached to my game store can read for free and all the players and DMs at my store are unhappy with the rule changes. Especially with some specific things which have clearly been written by someone who has never played a game of D&D in their life they have killed their franchise for the second time probably worse than the 4th edition fiasco and I don't think they will recover again but to be quite frank I no longer give a shit my game shop no longer buy anything to do with hasbro or wizards of the coast I now only stock independent games which are selling like hotcakes ❤😊
In case people are curious, these numbers come from Bookscan. Anyone with access to Bookscan can confirm these numbers, which are sales from 9/15/24 to 9/21/24.
Does Bookscan have access to the FLGS data that ends up driving the ICV2? Or is this just one half of a bifurcated data stream?
@@matthewblanchard9805 "BookScan is the gold-standard data service that tracks actual weekly retail sales of trade print books in the US. The service utilizes direct reporting from most major chain retailers and over 800 independent bookstores, covering approximately 85 percent of the country’s trade print sales."
@@RollForCombatremember wizards changed their book printer directly before the release
@@jaysw9585 These numbers come from the stores themselves. Not the printer.
@@matthewblanchard9805 I don't think Bookscan has access to FLGS. Most FLGS are small and aren't likely going to be reporting their data to a company. There are probably some FLGs that don't even know how many books they sold themselves.
Out of curiosity I wondered what today's PHB sales rank at Amazon. Surprised no Product Details block was listed showing "Best Sellers Rank" of "#300 in books" or "#1,456,789 in Fantasy" depending on keywords and category sales. That fact is included on driveway salt and windshield wipers, but none for PHB. Curious.
(If anyone is interested in top sellers, expend the upper left Amazon page options to see "top seller lists" by category and drill down).
Ah yes that is clearly reliable, "hextech blood colored metal dice" are clearly outselling the new edition of the most popular roleplaying game, as well as every single SKU of mork borg and its supplement
I know of one distributor in the US that sold 19k copies of the Alt Cover alone. Remember there are two covers that they can count as being the PHB2024. I think it’s possible they sold more than 133k if you count both and the digital sales. However, if that is the case, Hasbro needs to rethink their sales process - supporting Amazon under their own LLC’s and big box stores over FLGS who obviously are selling the vast majority of the product.
Remember FLGS had the books 2 weeks early. And DnDBeyond preorders gave you DnDBeyond access 2 weeks early. So, it makes sense that Big Box sales are low the first week. Everyone bought their books 2 weeks prior. Plus... there were a bunch of GenCon sales.
He's also just a liar, it doesn't show on B&N's site as "D&D" so he assumed they didn't have it, had he visited in person he'd have seen they have it, all but two stores in NYC have it and the two that don't are sold out
Hi, Denmark here. Most of TTRPG stores sold the new books (both normal and alt cover) so fast, that they are not available any more. And this is THE board-game (including TTRPG) country. Another thing is that Profesor DM, who at this point tries to divide our community more and more. You CAN'T EXCLUDE D&D Beyond sales of the books. It is like the book publishers not counting ePUBs, which currently represent most of the publishing sales.
I am glad that you made this video that is more down to earth than the ... that was uploaded to Dungeon Craft...
A single smallish Polish online game store that I bought my copy from had an allotment of 30 copies that sold out in about a week. In Poland. The English version of the book. In a store that’s probably not even in the top 10 largest or most popular online game stores in the country.
This is just clickbait for people who have nothing better to do than daydream about a billion dollar corporation failing, as if that would somehow consitute their own personal success.
Exactly
I’d buy it if I could find it, it’s out of stock at every store I go to
You can’t buy the D&D 2024 Player's Handbook in New Zealand. It's not sold out, it's not listed in stores or online stores in NZ for preorder. I have a friend that got the physical book in New Zealand by purchasing from D&D Beyond for a stupid amount of Kiwi dollars.
even at 300% 2014's printing numbers WOTC is having to prioritize their direct sales because they're running out of physical copies
AKA "They only sold 3000 copies"
B&N here in Valparaiso Indiana got 10 books in on 16th they have sold 7 and have 3 left on the shelf, I got my alternate cover at local comic book shop on the 4th, hope the info helps and Hello from BFE Indiana!!!
Bought a collectors edition off ebay from a game store seller for $10 less than MSRP and free shipping.
According to a friend who works at target, they aren’t even getting copies in (their) store until next year. So that could also be why people can’t find books in large retailers.
So if they are counting the physical&digital bundle as two copies, that number gets easier to reach. An extra $10 for digital makes sense to buy. But because storefronts couldn't offer the combo, I'd guess sales were heavily biased to direct online orders for the physical books also. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that they didn't offer an off-the-shelf combo because it would have been unavoidably a single SKU that way.
Well, not sure about NY, but we sold our whole stock of 190 books just through pre-orders. And this is just a relatively small city in Poland with fierce competition.
That being said, WotC brags about fastest selling product but what they account all the pre-order purchases made at least half a year before release. They count all the sales from stores + digital tools like Roll20 or D&D Beyond as a day one sale. It's obvious it is going to sell faster than anything before, regardless of the quality. It's not an indie company, it's a marketing giant.
I saw two at either B&N or Books a Million in an old mall Myrtle Beach about 2 weeks ago (around the 13th). The gamestore in there didn't have it though (to be fair, it seemed the focused more on collectible old school video games and anime). We scoped out another FLGS in the area and they had a couple of copies of the regular version. I picked one up.
As for hobby stores, I know my entire group of 5 player's and myself all purchased from our local hobby store. I found it $15 cheaper online after I had it, but my group all decided to support the local store instead. Also I pre-ordered mine from WOTC, so wondering if the digital & physical bundle counts as 2 then?
The Books a Million near me not only has it, but they put it out before Sept 17
And 5 of those 2014 phb from past years were mine at under $20. Cool fact you can’t have both PHB in the same wish list on Amazon.
2024 is not moving in our local FLGS. I also have the FLGS hardcopy.
I think someone said 17th printing for 2014
Spot check Target does not have the book online or I used the wrong filter
Walmart has the 2014 listed for 26.10 And Alt cover 2024 for 59.95 and the AD&D for 65.82 but it is listed as outstock.
Target does not have it, but B&H in new york does
When it comes to the box stores, that does not surprise me. Since the beginning of the year, about the time WOTC was getting all the bad press, I have noticed in my area Walmart no longer carrying those D&D books. Target minimized how many D&D books they hold. Last I went to Target they did not have any. And Barnes and Noble really has not restocked much of anything when it comes to their RPG section.
its in stock at all but 3 NYC barnes & nobles, WOTC has some sort of dispute with target preventing new books from being sold there
I do wonder if WotC is including preorders and Convention sales in its "first week" figures. If so, I could easily see them having hit some pretty huge numbers in the first week, because I know a lot of people preordered the book, and it moved pretty well at Cons from what I understand too.
FLGS definitely have been a huge driver for the book as well. At one of the largest FLGS in my large city, I saw rows of the book on the preorder shelf awaiting pickup just days after it was released. Rows would equate to at least three or four dozen copies.
I don't think WotC did a broad release at actual book stores. I think most of the hard copies were moved through FLGS.
I've switched over to Pathfinder 2e full time since the OGL debacle, but my kids are still running 5e for their friends. They're sticking with the 2014 rules until all three core books come out. They've shown interest in possible switching to the new rules, but they're only looking at getting the books electronically, and that's the demographic that I think WotC really cares about, IMO. They don't care about us old guys that love books. My oldest will probably eventually buy the physical book, but only after all three books come out.
I got my copy of the PHB on Sept 17th at Barnes and Noble. At the time they had 6 copies on display.
Also if they count every copy then bundles are 2 copies and one goes right to the house. ( and presale with attendant FoMO can be a thing too) Though I think maybe the numbers may be (?) bit accurate for some reason.
We went to OSE . Nothing in the new book looks like anything that improved the game. Just gave players more power
Shadowdark baby
@@jasonpfirman2881 yes it is just 5e revised if you didn’t know
Would WOTC sales include online sales through Roll20 LLC, Foundry Gaming, or similar companies?
These numbers in this video are nonsense.
Interesting...wonder if they count DnD Beyond combo sales as 2 sales (digital & print) to make it sound better...
Most likely
I'd wager they do. If they can fiddle with numbers in marketing, they do. It's all PR.
he's literally lying in this video B&H in new york has the PHB, if you search for D&D you wont find it on their site, you have to search for Player's handbook, if he'd actually gone in person instead of lied about it, they not only have them, several of them have sold out despite stocking hundreds per location
Bought mine at barns and noble the day it came out and something was wrong with the bar code and I got mine for 22.50 , it was a nice surprise.
I bought my physical copy at a small hobby store in my hometown. I bought it out of curiosity and a desire to support the small hobby shop. They are good people. EDIT: i forgot to mention that they only got in 2 copies. one of the original 2024 and one of the special edition 2024.
Do the first week numbers include preorders? Or only sales after release date? That could make a difference.
I'd also be interested to know the direct sales from WotC website as they were pushing their physical and digital bundle hard.
Still seems like a small number of actual sales.
What is puzzling to me is Amazon not shipping preorders in some countries. I'm in Brazil and they didn't even ship my book yet (which isn't tagged as international). I heard some people in Australia complaining on Reddit. If some LGSs are stuck with it, it feels like something went wrong from the logistics standpoint.
I ordered in June, it still didn't ship and it shows as sold out on Amazon Brazil.
Same here, and placed my order on Amazon BR around early July.
I bought mine at Barnes & Noble for $23 after I saw the pricing glitch post on reddit
I need to know if I will have to buy digital books for the VTT, or if D&D Beyond books are compatible.
Wizards dropped their book printer-publisher earlier this year. Its why they had to stagger the releases all the way into January because the new publisher couldnt do a full release of all 3 books. Its highly likely the new printer/publisher isnt reporting all the numbers from every source.
No matter your opinion of Wizards, its physically impossible to have that low of a sales when they are shipping to 3rd party resales all over the world. My single book store in maryland has at least 300 copies alone.
If you buy the physical copy with the digital version, does it get counted towards the metrics twice?
Orlando Florida. I put 2 Phb on reserve at Barnes and Nobles for Sept 17 and I picked them up no problem.
I work for a distributor, I assure you. Your numbers are not accurate. Not by a long shot, we have had 3 restocks already to keep up with demand, and just had another today.
And how many total books is that exactly? My FLGS has not sold out their books yet.
Yeah, but they under published and under distributed physical.
@@ZaxPBG because they are pushing digital. They don’t want people buying physical books. They want people buying on Beyond. Sadly most people will buy on Beyond.
@@craigjones7343 I am not sure I can legally say the actual numbers. I can only speak to my experience, but our first and second waves were more stock than the final sales numbers here by a significant margin, and we are one of the smaller warehouses out of 20 for a single distributor who all had more than we did, and are already sold out.
This channel bashes d&d , thats how it makes money.
Or maybe they arent distributing through their major retail stores as tgey arnt using a distributor so the vast majorities of their copies wouldn't be delivered to stores in your data set. Not to mention the huge online draw of the character creator unlocks online
I got access to the 2024 Handbook through the master tier subsciption at DnD Beyond, or whatever it's called. Do you think they're counting that as "sales"?
Most of their sales this time isn't physical, but digital copies of the book. At my game store they kept selling out. But on my end, I could buy the book through fantasy grounds unity. They ended a lot of old contacts with their old friends in the name of prophet. If they wanted to make a new book, then hire the publishers, then distribute their physical books to sellers, most of the profit that they make gets eaten up. It doesn't surprise me that this time they made far less copies of physical, and mostly went digital this time. I own a whole collection of rule books that will never take up space on my shelf.
I feel like I heard they were giving it to local gaming stores for a couple of weeks before the target retails like Walmart, Target, etc.
Well, WoTC's/Hasbro's plan seems to be getting people to pay for it on line via a subscription service. Trying to move most players onto their own game playing server system. So they have little worry about how many they push through game stores.
My local BN in Colorado had it a week ago. I’ve been waiting to buy it from the small game store across town
Waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiit...WotC said its the fastest selling, but the numbers suck? Im shocked. I noticed they "printed" 3x, as you just said (writing while I listen).
Edit: I bought my copy of the 2014 PHB at the very end of 2018 and it is still the first printing.
My local big box store 2nd & Charles, which is an offshoot of Books a Million has plenty of copies. I picked up my alternate art copy at my local gaming store though.
I bought the physical & digital bundle on dnd beyond. I wonder if WotC is counting my digital and physical purchases as separate sales. So my single purchases gets counted as two sales, as far as this announcement goes.
At my table, 3 of us bought the bundle, so WotC could count that as six separate purchases rather than 3.
That would likely go a long way into inflating the numbers.
I got a physical copy. But I ordered it through Amazon.
So as an international reference on Amazon France, the Players Handbook Hard Cover (2024) has sold 300+ in past month or since release I guess. Although it is in English this is also a remarkably low number.
its hilarious that he's saying it sold 3000 copies and every FLGS seems to have sold like .5% of all copies
weird
I am 90% my FLGS doesn't plan on stocking it.
I only bought the 2024 PHB because I got $40 in Amazon credit as thank you gifts from donationing blood.
I wouldn't be surprised if those sales numbers (from WotC) are cooked a bit.
Does this include the numbers from the digital physical bundle on D&D beyond
I pre-ordered the PHB from Amazon.
I bought a copy to support my local store, and my wife wanted the alt cover.
Edit:spelling
I think aside from the digital copy, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of advertising that a new player's handbook was released. Maybe it's just my feed, but it seemed like every channel was showing off Tasha's, and I haven't seen a whole lot of reviews of the PHB. The timing is strange too, why release it at the end of summer? Maybe they're hoping to capitalize on more school-aged kids being together to spread by word of mouth?
Seems like WotC is changing it's business model to a more online oriented, with the release of their own VTT and partnerships with all other majors VTTs. Digital books are much easier to keep, update and integrate. Since 2016 i just buy physical books that I want to add to my collection (that's why i bought the new PHB with the alt cover), but i own all 5E books on DnD Beyond because even when I'm not playing online, I still use them. Our hobby is changing and WotC seems to be very aware of that. Hasbro is a big greedy company, and they're betting that our tables are more digital than ever, and I think they're betting right.
I saw 2 copies at my local Indigo in Toronto and they had reams of 5e books still available that have been so for 2 years. Like literally the same books. I can say I don't think they had much 2024 6e sorry 6E! books that sold so fast the shelves were stocked..Just ...2 copies of the new PBH. I even asked the staff if this is all they had and they said yes, we don't have any more copies and we only had a few to begin with.
I was pretty sure most of the new sales would be in the digital realm rather than the books. With the price increase in the books (The trio of books would be near $250 in my currency) and how tentative a fair few people are about anything WoTC produces, the 'try out' version on D&D Beyond would be less of a hit to the wallet if it turned out your group didn't like it. Plus a lot of the newer generation uses iPads and tablets at the table (or laptops, but even those are becoming 'old tech'). My friend's son uses digital exclusively as well with the exception of dice.
I'm actually kind of more surprised at how well Tasha's sold. It was the book that broke my group and made us quit 5e entirely. I think I bought a couple of books after.. Maybe up to the Dragon book.. Or maybe Van Richten's, but by that point there was a weird trend to offer very lazy design (making dread lords just use lich statblocks) and little utility for DM's and just throw all sorts of things at players who were already nearly impossible to challenge without breaking rules on monster design.
I guess I always thought Xanathar's was the biggest seller. I was very wrong!
But is it? How many of the sells are the bundle where people got the physical book and the digital book? It would be interesting to know the actual digital only numbers compared to the digital + book numbers. Especially when the digital book was only $10 if you got the bundle, and most people are going to toss in the extra $10 to get the D&D BEyond version if they pre-ordered from WotC.
Well, I don't plan to change my running D&D campaign to the 2024 rules, and I guess this campaign has potential for 2 or 3 more years.
I might pick up the book in 2027.
I just flat out refuse to buy any D&D books because of their recent business practices, reliance and push toward AI, and their literal war on their creators..
Happy to have moved to Pathfinder.
Works if you can stomach the focus on mechanics. We no longer have version wars because the gearheads found a home in Pathfinder and migrated en masse, huge numbers, thank GOD. That said, my table is getting tired of 5e's super-heroic characters and a few of us are yearning for the grit and texture of old school. Not to mention the imaginative freedom of light rules. We'll abandon 5e for some such OSR game before buying another edition of the same over-powered nonsense modern sensibility D&D from those tone-deaf corporate dufuses. D&D died long ago, when TSR ran Gygax out of the company he built with his astonishing, inventive imagination. It's been a pretty ugly story every since. Do we need a new edition, or does Hasbro? Rhetorical.
Me too. I also enjoy pathfinder more than DnD. I wish I would have got into pathfinder sooner.
good for you but this video is for the new handbook, so if you play PF and dont play D&D this video doesn't concern you. Stop being a troll
I migrated my group to Level Up, Blades in the Dark, Paranoia and Manifold. I have been a die-hard D&D Dm since 1990. I suffered through the worst of TSR and the bloat of 3e. For WotC to have pushed me to abandon official D&D.....well, it shows just how upset with their business practises and the state of the game I am. I WILL NOT buy into the 2024 edition. I won't reward a business that treats is staff and player base like this and I sure as hell wont incentivise a company to follow video-game industry type monetisation and pre-order culture.
100% agreed. I switched to DC20, such a brilliant system
So I sell books on amazon, and looking at that... PHB 2024 isn't selling so well.
Some nitty gritty here - when a new book is released it initially isn't given a sales ranking at all, until a few days have gone by and it starts to sell. (Yes, it is possible to never have a sales ranking, if the book doesn't sell at all or barely at all.)
Right now on amazon the 2014 version is ranked ~1,500 for books, and number 3 in the D&D category. (DMG is 1 at 1,150, and MM 2 at 1450.)
That sounds like they aren't selling well, but remember, that's 1,500 out of all the millions of book on amazon. That's 65 copies a day for the DMG, roughly, and 50 for the PHB.
Amazon is the single biggest chunk of the book sale market. If the PHB 2024 had sold 130,000 books over the last nine days, and 1/6th of that total was through Amazon, it would be the best selling book on amazon right now.
Instead it isn't even ranked yet.
Now, it does have 67 ratings and reviews so far, and a *very rough* rule of thumb for reviews is that 1% of people who buy a book review it, so it isn't selling nothing either, and that 1% goes up a lot if there are very strong feelings involved.
I'm sure there are a lot of copies being sold at hobby stores and such, but the 130,000 to 3,000 is still a useful number - because the Tasha's numbers wouldn't include hobby store copies either.
Didnt WotC dump their book distribution contracts to handle it themselves, so are they counting wholesale sales to game stores that still have them in inventory as opening sales?
Indigo in Canada near my house put 20% off stickers on the books
There were a couple dozen st my local game store. I haven't looked at my local booksamillion or barnes&noble. I'll check my local walmarts and Targets too.
When I picked my D&D 2024 PHB at my FLGS, the guy running the shop said he was surprised that WOTC sent them so many copies, particularly of the special edition version. He said it sold very well the first day.
I haven't seen any copies in any retail store since. This is all very peculiar.
it's called "The youtuber is lying fro clicks"
I have an online game store based in Denmark, and my providers already have the book out of stock. I was lucky to receive the first batch of them, but want to order more and I can´t :-(
Same here in Germany. Sold about 100 copies, hope to get more next week.
Since this isn't a "new" edition, lower sales don't surprise me. AD&D 2nd edition wasn't very different from AD&D so a lot of people didn't convert right away. Maybe this is the same sort of circumstance contributing to the sales of the physical copies at least. It wouldn't surprise me at all that the digital copies are being counted in the total. I also believe Hasbro would be double dipping, claiming people that bought PDF, Beyond, and Physical copies as three sales instead of one sale.
B&N in Wichita has it, front and center. Not on sale though.
Our FLGS didn't have the book but a local book/record store with a small gaming section did. 🤷♂
Well, my group wanted to try pathfinder after the d&d fiasco.
Also Hasbro decided to change the distribution model.
If only hasbro would just honestly report sales numbers. You'd think if it was a number worth bragging about that they would actually be more forthcoming with it
My local game store in London is selling the new PHB like the clappers - they are shifting fast here.
This is London, UK. Population 10 million.
Either WotC sold what they said they have or your data is not capturing all the data.
What about Amazon data?
Are preorders reported in a different week? The week the preorder was placed?
Still waiting down here in Australia, still weeks away for my preorder
I think I'm buying the 3 book set
Does this include Amazon and Direct from WotC sales?
It doesn't include anything private, like WoTC direct sales. "BookScan is the gold-standard data service that tracks actual weekly retail sales of trade print books in the US. The service utilizes direct reporting from most major chain retailers and over 800 independent bookstores, covering approximately 85 percent of the country’s trade print sales."
@@RollForCombat I suspect the WoTC direct sales are actually massive seeing as that is where literally everyone I know got theirs (our nearest lgs is an hour away)
FLGS: friendly local game store
Here stores had them on the shelves early. I found them at WISHES at the mall on 6th of Sept
ESCANDALO! Not a WOTC fan, but those numbers are highly suspect. I'm sure FLGS are not included among other sources of ssles. Clickbait. Shame.
Pretty hard to believe considering a lot of people cant find it anywhere
First, why wouldn’t they include digital sales? It’s still the same book. Secondly, does Bookscan include the WotC direct to consumer sales? I’d be surprised if it did. And WotC has already stated they are trying to cut out the middle-man.
My local Books-A-Million has it, and we're not a huge city.
I keep seeing advertisements on FB. So far I have resisted writing a snarky response.
All I know is they only shipped 1000 exclusive covers to APAC region. Which has 32 million people. And late, and regular late.
Which tells me they don't give a Fa about doing physical properly.
What about the pre-order sales? They were pushing very hard for early adopters to buy D&D 2024 PHB prior to actual release. Are they counted in your figures?
I'm waiting for the Black Friday sale to get mine...
last i heard wizards has a thing where game stores get it first for i THINK 2 weeks? and then it goes everywhere else.
I've ordered the book online but it's lost in transport :( and I've buy the book for foundry vtt.
There were copies available in Indigo books in the Eaton Centre in Toronto. (I didn’t buy one. I have Tales of the Valiant which is just as good but not corporate!)
But wotc says it sold more than any other book they havemade (in the past 10 years) They sold like 400 to you at gencon.
@@TheOGGMsAdventures lol. Are you suggesting that sales are suppressed because Steven flooded market with free copies from GC? Too funny!
@@jameslemaux1572 what, no, all I am saying is they had 3000 copies at Gencon.
Steven was at Gencon
Steven had like 8000 copies
The Brick and morter stores were selling them a week before street date and now the sales are below expectation?
Remember, they are trying to funnel people into their online ecosystem so they can control and abuse the customer in ways that only DDBeyond can, and cheap out on printing. They are going to include digital sales and likely include Physical and Digital bundles as 2 separate sales.
I called it! Do you remember when we were sitting in the stadium at GenCon and I told you and Derik I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s sold poorly? Derik told me I was crazy and it would sell just fine?
Maybe more people went digital... My FLGS in Greece had it available at the start of this week.